Nor was the Trojan war itself as ancient as some people seem to think. The only reason it appears that way was because of the fall of the Mycenaen culture, the Dorian invasion and the subsequent "Dark Age" of Greece, but the events were well within historical times.
The timespan from the war itself to the Iliad reaching its final version (through whatever method that happened) was no greater a span than from the founding of the Plymouth Colony to now.
A timespan long enough to create a legendary version through the oral tradition, but not so great a span that people wouldn't recognize a historical event from pure myth.
It's hard to imagine that Plato didn't have his tongue in his cheek when he claimed to have the story third hand from some guy who knew some guy who had heard the story in exotic Egypt.
Nah, he was just following the tale teller's convention, like "Once upon a time." You'll find it's still used in in modern stories designed to shock and amaze, the Urban Myth.
"I Know this is true, because I heard it from a guy who knew a guy who knew the guy it happened to."
In the modern parlance one of our own story tellers has rephrased the opening into "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. .."
Plato didn't have his tongue in his cheek, he was signaling the adult populace that this was a morality tale to be told to children.
I found Xanadu a while ago. Turns out it was at Blockbuster all along. Who woulda thunk?
I'm not sure what all the fuss is, and the Greek mythological character had an Aussie accent, which really kinda weirded me out, not to mention the fact that a Greek mythological character playing the central role in a Mongolian Chinese setting was kinda weird in itself.
Anybody else who wants to find it can just go to Blockbuster too, 'cause I gave that puppy right back.
But Schliemann at least had this going for him, he was looking for Troy right around where Homer suggested it was.
People looking for Atlantis have the distressing tendency to look for it, and claim to have found it, in all the places where the Platonic tale says it isn't.
Now, maybe I'm just being an old fuddy-duddy, but it seems to me you can't land on Hispaniola and get away with calling it India for very long, no matter how exotic it looks.
Yeah, the old Santorini hypothesis, which still suffers from the same problems, the most glaring of which is that it's called "Atlantis" because its suppose to have been located in. . . wait for it. ..The Atlantic ocean. If it were to be found in the Med it would have been called Mediteris or something.
Then there's the fact that Plato made it up as a morality tale to scare little children into becoming good little Platonists. It stands to reality as does Geo. Washington's dad's fictitious ex-cherry tree, which there's also no point in going out to look for.
Nevermind, we can treat it as another Troy if you like, just so long as I'm not expected to invest in the company.
Everytime someone finds some lumpy sort of thing under the water they immediately start yelling "Atlantis!" whether it actually otherwise conforms to the tale or not. Well, there may well be more than one old city under the water here and there. I'll bet there's hundreds of them, and worth an archeological investigation, but if you find one off the coast of Guam, well, I'm sorry Sparky, that ain't Atlantis.
"Hey, you won't believe it. I found an unknown '62 Ferrari 250 GTO in an old barn. I'm going to be rich and famous!"
"Ummmmmmmm, to tell you the truth, dude, it looks rather like a '62 Rambler to me."
"No, no, look, see, it's got wheels, four of them, and it's front engine-RWD, and a hard top, and like everything."
"Yeah, but it says "Rambler" on it."
"Look, if all you're going to do is stand around and nitpick minor differences when I've shown that it corresponds to the image of a 250 GTO in all major details you can just STFU, 'K?"
And also Masai. The lions don't impress me as being terribly crazy about that arrangement. There's just no pleasing some people.
Coincidentally I happen to be dressed as a Masai right now, right down to the traditional trapazoidal sandals (but when I track down a good bad tire I'll do up a pair of Ho Chi Maas). Very simple, but elegant mode of dress. One might well describe it as "Classic, but slightly dated." In fact, it's basically Classical Greek. I don't know why most northern writers refer to it as "Roman." Classical Greek dress doesn't look anything like Roman and is the very antithesis of the toga, which now just looks old. Old and stupid.
I'm not at all sure how a Masai would react to a white American dressed like a Masai, but it seems that here in upstate NY people either look at you funny or pretend they're not looking at all. In NYC, of course, nobody looks at anything anymore.
I'll match my walking ability with any man, anywhere, including Masai, but admit I can't jump for shit.
I'm a fan of the FIAT 124 Spider. When it was first introduced Road & Track called it's syling "Classic, but slightly dated."
20 years later when they featured it as used classic they called its styling "Classic, but slightly dated."
Today I would, myself, call its styling "Classic, but slightly dated," and rather imagine that's the way my grandchildren will describe in in another 50 years.
On the other hand when my first gen Capri was only 5 years old it looked old. Old and stupid.
My brother's 64 1/2 Mustang looks, well, classic, but slightly dated. I think the new Mustang is going to start looking old and stupid in about, ohhhhh, next week.
His '63 split window 'Vette looks kick ass! Yes, at the time of introduction people thought it looked too dated.
Are we sensing the trend here?
Most of the people here would think my desktop theme looks "old fashioned" (i.e. what we had a few years ago). It's flat. Lacks transparency. The widgets have corners and shit. The colors are muted earth tones and lack shading.
Of course, it's also in a mode that has been considered conservatively attractive for some thousands of years.
Yeah, but I've previously gone on record as believing that not all trolls are without merit and have garnered a few troll moddings myself.
besides what makes you think the ACLU has a slated view of the bill of rights
Probably statements like this, taken from their website:
If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.
It doesn't even really make sense, it's the sort of "logic" that allows you to justify anything.
I think he got the count wrong though. The ACLU only has 8 ammendments in their version, since they leave out the one that everyone else leaves out as well, the most important one really, since it provides the rights that most people argue we don't have.
That would be the Ninth Ammendment.
That one was put in there to appease the Hamiltonians who argued that an explict Bill of Rights would be used to limit rights by falsely interpreting the specific wording, allowing Congress to make law that the Constitution gave them no authority to.
Looks like old Alex and the boys nailed that one dead on I'm afraid.
I was a 1914 man myself. Once spent about 4 hours setting up the chits and then had the cat walk across them. I let her live, but it was a close call. I think it was the fact that she didn't destroy a game a week of play into it that swayed the deal.
I've got an old war gaming buddy who I still ocassionally have a round of Blitzkrieg with and I might still have Afrika Corps around someplace, which was always good for a "quicky."
The shelf beside me also contains Richthofen's War and Le Mans, but computer sims have really kinda put paid to those.
I use either a Mexican/Guatamalan string bag, or my bike messenger bag. I'm afraid the bike messenger bag is nylon, but it's over ten years old now and really hasn't begun to show any signs of aging yet, and I use it very, very hard at times.
I've never understood tne modern deprecation of the word "amateur."
The modern Olympic games were founded around the philosophical concept that amateur was the highest possible calling.
Nowadays, of course, "professional" has come to be a synonym of "expert," which is prima facie laughable.
KFG
Re:This is news? Company A cares about smth strate
on
Microsoft's Strategy Memos
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Well, forgive me for being obtuse, but if all the jobs are going to India, and you are an American, I fail to see where taking on extensive additional financial obligations is a long term survival strategy.
To me that sounds more like a splendid strategy for ending up standing a street corner surrounded by your stuff without even your repossessed car to live in.
In troubled times there is safty and advantage to be had by everyone in the pooling of skills and resources.
Slashdot Mirror
As soon as I hit "submit" I knew you'd speek up.
KFG
Do you wish video games to have First Ammendment protection, or don't you?
KFG
Nor was the Trojan war itself as ancient as some people seem to think. The only reason it appears that way was because of the fall of the Mycenaen culture, the Dorian invasion and the subsequent "Dark Age" of Greece, but the events were well within historical times.
The timespan from the war itself to the Iliad reaching its final version (through whatever method that happened) was no greater a span than from the founding of the Plymouth Colony to now.
A timespan long enough to create a legendary version through the oral tradition, but not so great a span that people wouldn't recognize a historical event from pure myth.
KFG
What else do I need?
I throw in a Canadian flag umbrella hat.
KFG
Hard Drive
Velcro "Dots."
KFG
Yes, this works quite well, but then I'm stuck listening to the high frequency whine of the monitor.
.
Putting the monitor in the closet as well worked, but presented some problems with usability, so I moved my chair into the closet.
Then all I had to do was move the computer back to where it was in the first place. .
And then the monitor.
Ahhhhh, west and welaxation at last.
KFG
It's hard to imagine that Plato didn't have his tongue in his cheek when he claimed to have the story third hand from some guy who knew some guy who had heard the story in exotic Egypt.
."
Nah, he was just following the tale teller's convention, like "Once upon a time." You'll find it's still used in in modern stories designed to shock and amaze, the Urban Myth.
"I Know this is true, because I heard it from a guy who knew a guy who knew the guy it happened to."
In the modern parlance one of our own story tellers has rephrased the opening into "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. .
Plato didn't have his tongue in his cheek, he was signaling the adult populace that this was a morality tale to be told to children.
KFG
I found Xanadu a while ago. Turns out it was at Blockbuster all along. Who woulda thunk?
I'm not sure what all the fuss is, and the Greek mythological character had an Aussie accent, which really kinda weirded me out, not to mention the fact that a Greek mythological character playing the central role in a Mongolian Chinese setting was kinda weird in itself.
Anybody else who wants to find it can just go to Blockbuster too, 'cause I gave that puppy right back.
KFG
Well, of course there's no point in looking for that. George chopped it down. ;-)
And then tossed it onto Atlantis, which then blew up, and sank.
KFG
But Schliemann at least had this going for him, he was looking for Troy right around where Homer suggested it was.
People looking for Atlantis have the distressing tendency to look for it, and claim to have found it, in all the places where the Platonic tale says it isn't.
Now, maybe I'm just being an old fuddy-duddy, but it seems to me you can't land on Hispaniola and get away with calling it India for very long, no matter how exotic it looks.
KFG
Yeah, the old Santorini hypothesis, which still suffers from the same problems, the most glaring of which is that it's called "Atlantis" because its suppose to have been located in. . . wait for it. . .The Atlantic ocean. If it were to be found in the Med it would have been called Mediteris or something.
Then there's the fact that Plato made it up as a morality tale to scare little children into becoming good little Platonists. It stands to reality as does Geo. Washington's dad's fictitious ex-cherry tree, which there's also no point in going out to look for.
Nevermind, we can treat it as another Troy if you like, just so long as I'm not expected to invest in the company.
Everytime someone finds some lumpy sort of thing under the water they immediately start yelling "Atlantis!" whether it actually otherwise conforms to the tale or not. Well, there may well be more than one old city under the water here and there. I'll bet there's hundreds of them, and worth an archeological investigation, but if you find one off the coast of Guam, well, I'm sorry Sparky, that ain't Atlantis.
"Hey, you won't believe it. I found an unknown '62 Ferrari 250 GTO in an old barn. I'm going to be rich and famous!"
"Ummmmmmmm, to tell you the truth, dude, it looks rather like a '62 Rambler to me."
"No, no, look, see, it's got wheels, four of them, and it's front engine-RWD, and a hard top, and like everything."
"Yeah, but it says "Rambler" on it."
"Look, if all you're going to do is stand around and nitpick minor differences when I've shown that it corresponds to the image of a 250 GTO in all major details you can just STFU, 'K?"
KFG
Don't worry, nothing can go wrong. . .go wrong. . .go wrong.
But if you think you see Yul Brenner, it might be wise to run anyway, just in case.
KFG
Come to Kenya, we've got lions.
And also Masai. The lions don't impress me as being terribly crazy about that arrangement. There's just no pleasing some people.
Coincidentally I happen to be dressed as a Masai right now, right down to the traditional trapazoidal sandals (but when I track down a good bad tire I'll do up a pair of Ho Chi Maas). Very simple, but elegant mode of dress. One might well describe it as "Classic, but slightly dated." In fact, it's basically Classical Greek. I don't know why most northern writers refer to it as "Roman." Classical Greek dress doesn't look anything like Roman and is the very antithesis of the toga, which now just looks old. Old and stupid.
I'm not at all sure how a Masai would react to a white American dressed like a Masai, but it seems that here in upstate NY people either look at you funny or pretend they're not looking at all. In NYC, of course, nobody looks at anything anymore.
I'll match my walking ability with any man, anywhere, including Masai, but admit I can't jump for shit.
KFG
I'm a fan of the FIAT 124 Spider. When it was first introduced Road & Track called it's syling "Classic, but slightly dated."
20 years later when they featured it as used classic they called its styling "Classic, but slightly dated."
Today I would, myself, call its styling "Classic, but slightly dated," and rather imagine that's the way my grandchildren will describe in in another 50 years.
On the other hand when my first gen Capri was only 5 years old it looked old. Old and stupid.
My brother's 64 1/2 Mustang looks, well, classic, but slightly dated. I think the new Mustang is going to start looking old and stupid in about, ohhhhh, next week.
His '63 split window 'Vette looks kick ass! Yes, at the time of introduction people thought it looked too dated.
Are we sensing the trend here?
Most of the people here would think my desktop theme looks "old fashioned" (i.e. what we had a few years ago). It's flat. Lacks transparency. The widgets have corners and shit. The colors are muted earth tones and lack shading.
Of course, it's also in a mode that has been considered conservatively attractive for some thousands of years.
I think I'll keep it.
KFG
Bearing in mind, of course, that many diseases, even fatal ones, amount to little more than a bad immune reaction.
The body has a distressing tendency to commit suicide in a panic over having done seed a germ.
KFG
I went back and read it again. You are correct.
My post requires editing for that perspective. The basic points will hold though, I think.
KFG
. . .against the majority. . .
This one seems to be a difficult idea for some people to grasp.
KFG
troll.
Yeah, but I've previously gone on record as believing that not all trolls are without merit and have garnered a few troll moddings myself.
besides what makes you think the ACLU has a slated view of the bill of rights
Probably statements like this, taken from their website:
If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.
It doesn't even really make sense, it's the sort of "logic" that allows you to justify anything.
I think he got the count wrong though. The ACLU only has 8 ammendments in their version, since they leave out the one that everyone else leaves out as well, the most important one really, since it provides the rights that most people argue we don't have.
That would be the Ninth Ammendment.
That one was put in there to appease the Hamiltonians who argued that an explict Bill of Rights would be used to limit rights by falsely interpreting the specific wording, allowing Congress to make law that the Constitution gave them no authority to.
Looks like old Alex and the boys nailed that one dead on I'm afraid.
KFG
I was a 1914 man myself. Once spent about 4 hours setting up the chits and then had the cat walk across them. I let her live, but it was a close call. I think it was the fact that she didn't destroy a game a week of play into it that swayed the deal.
I've got an old war gaming buddy who I still ocassionally have a round of Blitzkrieg with and I might still have Afrika Corps around someplace, which was always good for a "quicky."
The shelf beside me also contains Richthofen's War and Le Mans, but computer sims have really kinda put paid to those.
KFG
You were never much a fan of Avalon Hill board games, were you?
KFG
Ooooooh yeah, baby! Those were the days when gameplay was more important the graphics, because, like, we didn't exactly have much of a choice.
Only in my case I was playing an APL port on an IBM 360, so I suppose I could have installed a graphics update by changing the type ball.
KFG
True, but then it's a very Western poem. :)
KFG
I use either a Mexican/Guatamalan string bag, or my bike messenger bag. I'm afraid the bike messenger bag is nylon, but it's over ten years old now and really hasn't begun to show any signs of aging yet, and I use it very, very hard at times.
KFG
I've never understood tne modern deprecation of the word "amateur."
The modern Olympic games were founded around the philosophical concept that amateur was the highest possible calling.
Nowadays, of course, "professional" has come to be a synonym of "expert," which is prima facie laughable.
KFG
Well, forgive me for being obtuse, but if all the jobs are going to India, and you are an American, I fail to see where taking on extensive additional financial obligations is a long term survival strategy.
To me that sounds more like a splendid strategy for ending up standing a street corner surrounded by your stuff without even your repossessed car to live in.
In troubled times there is safty and advantage to be had by everyone in the pooling of skills and resources.
Ohana.
Unless, of course, you're an asshole.
KFG