Although your bit about Nazis and the Bush family is obviously a red herring, I'd like to point this out:
The first move Hitler did when he came to power was to make citizens hand over their firearms. Bush (Sr.) was a card-carrying member of the NRA. Hmmm, tends to contradict a bit, there, eh?
If anyone could be tied to Nazi-like tactics, it'd be the New Left: witness the Clinton/Reno team in action, for example.
The question is...how does, say, Germany, manage
that? Six weeks is the norm, there, as I understand it. Yet they are one of the top 3 countries in GNP, no? WTF is wrong with the U.S. in this department?
More managers need to be reading Peopleware. It's too bad you can't fire your boss.
When people ask their workers what the office might need, it's often ignored anyway. I was working as a contractor at one site, and they asked everyone (including contractors) what the office needed to spruce things up. At least one perm person and myself asked for a genuine water cooler, since the water there was so bad, and everyone who wanted it had to buy bottled water and bring it in.
Guess what we got instead? We got those fucking "motivational" posters that the new edition of Peopleware blasts so badly. What friggin idiots the mgmt at this client was. The one I sat in front of had some quote like, "Teamwork, Many hands, one goal". The freakin' picture was of the CHINESE WALL!!!! Hello?! The Chinese Wall was built by SLAVES! Why not just show a field of cotton and American slaves picking it? How insulting! What f**king moron dreamt this picture up, and who decided to put it up after that? When I pointed this fact out about this particular (de)motivational poster, I know it was just put down as me being a "whiner", and promptly ignored. I couldn't WAIT for my contracting company to pull me. That was 11 months of pure hell...I can't imagine WTF the perm people were doing there.
Needless to say, every time I hear anything about that company, its about some new boneheaded thing
happening, or another person quitting.
What a short-sighted PHB you must be...."Nobody has any business..."?
Well, sir, I'm a consultant, and I get my main office to forward mail to my Hotmail account...it can sometimes be pertinent information, and it's nice to get it in a timely fashion...if it's something that's not important at that time, I can usually figure that out from the header, and read it later....that takes maybe all of a minute to check maybe 2-3 times a day.
Maybe no one has any business using the office restroom, either, as it uses up those valuable "work resources". Maybe the consulting firm I work for shouldn't call me during working hours as it also uses up the client site's "work resources".
Geez, I'm glad I never worked with/for anyone that had an attitude as bad as yours must be.
You must be a shipload of fun at work...
No. It's NOT allowing them to stay here. It's allowing them to stay here for a TEMPORARY time period...big difference. If companies were serious about really needing workers, they'd vie for extensions of TIME to CURRENT H1-B visa holders, not add to the pile of new people coming in, and booting older ones out. That's bollocks. I'm all for immigration, but this is not immigration.
Well, laissez-faire is a French word, so it can't be uniquely American...
Yes, the Constitution was written to have an anti-Government slant, but this country is careening toward bigger and bigger government every year, no matter if it's Demopublicans or Republocrats at the helm...
Well, our schools try to force *everyone* through school whether they might be more fit for a blue-collar job or not, and it might be comparing apples to oranges to compare our school system, with say, France, which makes people "qualify" for their version of high school. Also, it's a public school system, do all nations have public schools for K-12 range? I doubt it. So comparisons are suspect in my eyes, unless they take these factors into account. Do you have any cites for these sources?
This book needs to be standard reading for any chowderhead managers who can't figure some of this stuff out for themselves...believe it or not, many can't.
ie, developers NEED offices with doors. That's, right, those things that close. Instead, what happens? Manglement gives themselves the best offices first, and of course the people who need the most quiet and most configurable environment get what? Yes, cubes. I've seen offices that contained ONE "manager" that could have easily
been broken up into 4 or 5 good-sized offices -
that could have been given to developers, and probably housed 8 to 10 of them. No, instead it has to be a land-grab by upper management to show all the other primates in management they have status (developers typically don't see stuff in the terms that the typical manglement drone does).
Management needs to treat developers more like artists than clerical staff. Developers are not data-entry people, and their job involves more than just typing. I know this may be a revelation for middle to upper management, but this is true.
It's not about status. It's about keeping your workers happy and productive, and cubes don't lend themselves to either.
And if you are too damn cheap and/or stupid to ditch the cubes, then turn off those f'ing fluorescent lights, GOD DAMN IT! Why is the absolute worst lighting for computer work so common in the workplace?
Well, completing a college degree shows the person has completed something that takes some amount of effort to complete. College also tends to make a person more well-rounded. That's not always the case, but if I have a choice of who to work with non-degreed or degree'd, I'd choose degreed any day. When I get a vacant stare from someone when I mention, say, some concept typically taught in a basic Algorithms class, I can't help but get irritated. When I have to explain how a linked list works, something is wrong.
I wouldn't outright rule out non-degreed people, but no other engineering profession would allow non-degreed people to do work, why should software engineering be any different?
The REAL problem is the rampant age discrimination in this industry, plain and simple.
There are plenty of older, experienced, DEGREED folks out there who have a tough time getting decent salaries. How can that be, if we truly have a shortage?
I read the HHGTTG series, Stephenson, etc. Okay, maybe you're right...I CAN enter into rational discussion about immigration. Personally, I am very much FOR immigration into the U.S....however,
I very much dislike the notion of temporary foreign workers. It sets a very bad precedent, and in the long run, it's going to hurt not just the domestic and foreign worker, it's going to hurt American business. Why? Well, for the short run, just domestic and foreign workers get screwed:
Domestic workers get their wages depressed by cheap, temporary foreign labor.
Foreign workers are effectively indentured servants for the company that is sponsoring them. Yes, this isn't always so, but it often is.
In the long run: all the foreign labor that was returned back to their country now can staff a competitor company in foreign country (after getting training on the job in U.S.). You could argue that the cream of the crop winds up in America because of companies vouching for them, etc., while the chaff winds up back in their original country, but I'm not sure this is always the case.
Anyway, this country has always gotten some of its best people and ideas from PERMANENT immigration: Einstein, for example. How in the hell do you think he would have turned out if he knew he was going back in 6 years?! WTF is a temporary visa about? It's just Congress caving in to big money interests.
If you think arguing against H1-B's is just about xenophobia, you're missing the point...and that's just what the corps want people to think the argument is about. If they REALLY had a shortage
of workers that could staff their companies, they
would argue for PERMANENT immigration...but I don't see any companies arguing for that. Instead,
they argue for more people to be added to a system that guarantees a new supply of fresh, young, naive, underpaid IT workers who have less rights than the average citizen. But the shortage of workers is only a PERCEIVED shortage. The real shortage is the amount of money corps are willing to spend on American workers that are older and experienced and know exactly what they are worth and are willing to work 40-45 hours a week, not 60-70+ hours a week.
Since when did getting an engineering degree involve geography? Sure, some people are focused on their fields to the near-exclusion of all others, but just because someone can't point to where London is on a map doesn't make them stupid, and it's hardly an indication of the "dumbing down" of the American school system. If American's school system is so bad, why is it that so many foreigners attend our schools? HMMM? I can name some H1-B's who didn't know a lick of C coding, does that mean India's school system is dumbed down? Believe me, I have yet to meet an H1-B who learned to do my job better than me. You get out of your education what you put into it. I grew up in a backwards rural town, and I speak perfect *American* English, thank you very much. This silly notion that the Queen's English is the only valid version is also a bunch of bull. With that being said, I have no problems with immigrants coming here and working, however, I do have a problem with the concept of H1-B's. It's a method by which American corps can screw both foreign and domestic workers, by pitting them against one another, and laughing all the way to the bank (temp visas depress the domestic workers salary).
Anyway. I think it's just the U.S. looking for a way to sweat-shop IT as well as every other kind of labor that they have "outsourced". The problem is that you CANNOT have sweat-shop labor with knowledge workers. It just doesn't work. The best people leave for better opportunities, and since the best opportunities (most $$$) are in the U.S., who do you think is coding your outsourced project? HMMMM? That's right, the chaff.
BTW, I'm currently involved in a project involving outsourcing to Pakistan. It's a trainwreck-in-progress, let me tell you. Not sure management knows it yet, but hey, I'm just a consultant there, so no one would listen to me anyway....
But see, you aren't necessarily the norm. Not all H1-B's know their (limited)rights, or read salary surveys, apparently. Very few are willing to shop around.
And even if a company is paying 70K, that's still less than what some workers might make doing certain tasks, esp. if we weren't saddled with H1-B's. And the only way that is held down to that level is by perpetuating the current temp worker situation. If, instead, like I said in my first post, REAL immigration was encouraged, and not the bogus notion of H1-B's, more would benefit.
Also, H1-B's are just not the panacea that companies like to portray them as; it's just a tool that companies use to deflate salaries and keep those "uppity programmers" in their place.
Sorry to imply that H1-B's or foreigners are idiots, didn't mean to. There are many naive ones, though. And, so far, I've yet to work with an H1-B that was a real super star..they were all mediocre at best, so it's not like the company could not have re-trained an older worker (who is current citizen) at same or less cost. Congratulations on your green card, BTW. Hope you stay a long, long time.:)
Nope. H1-B's are not about immigration - they are
about supplying corps with lots of young, underpaid workers, and keeping programming
salaries down, too. I'm all for immigration, but
H1-B's don't keep the "talent" (I put talent in quotes because I've worked with a few H1-B's in my day, and I was underwhelmed), they supply training for other countries such as India, and then send 'em back to their country in a few years. I'm all for PERMANENT immigration, but that temp shit has got to go. Those folks are holding down your salary and my salary, and then,
when the corps have used them up, they get sent back, and then they will be begging for more H1-B's. If the corps weren't such pieces of shit, they'd be asking for EXTENSIONS to the H1-Bs that are here, or giving out green cards to those that are here...but no, see, the H1-B's that are nearing their end of term are wising up, and asking for more pay, etc...the corps want new, fresh, naive, H1-B's! The USA was built on immigration, not temp workers...if you bring people here to work, they ought to be given the opportunity to stay here, I say. The current system is about screwing both the U.S. citizen and the foreign national and the corps reaping all the benefit.
> how? would you like to see an ultra
> conservative bush government censor the net?
While the IDEALS of the conservatives and liberals
might be different, in actuality, once they get into office, its business as usual, no matter if they are Demopublicans or Republicrats....
Let me quote from the Libertarian web site (http://www.lp.org):
"This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians."
Hugh Downs, Co-host ABC-TV's 20/20, 31 March 1997
> It's funny how liberals will smoke weed yet at the same time yell at you for eating red meat or smoking cigarettes. So taking a drug that kills your brain cells is ok yet the occasional comsumption of steak is a sin. Sure smoking tobacco might take 15 years off your life but the last 15 are the worst any ways.
Whoa, did that poster say he was a liberal? Or that he was a pot smoker? Jeez, while we are on the stereotype bit, let's just say all conservatives are KKK members...it's pure bollocks but you just said "liberals will smoke weed yet at the same time yell at you...". I can name a few liberal I know who MIGHT do just what you said, but most I know don't fit that description. I can name some conservatives who are white supremacists, but that doesn't fit all of conservatism, now does it? I could also name Libertarians that are , but that wouldn't make ALL that way, either.
I, for one, am Libertarian...I am, of course, for the legalization of ALL drugs, and I don't do any of the (currently) illegal ones...I *am* a daily user/abuser of caffeine, I do occasionally enjoy ONE beer at a meal, and yes, it might be red meat at said meal. I don't have any problem with those who want to smoke cigarettes, either, and I think a lot of the anti-smoking legislation is just ridiculous and another example of Big Government stepping into areas it has no business (private businesses).
BTW, I enjoyed the Denis Leary reference there....
I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL by the lack of people who know what USENET is...I work as a programmer, and there are many poseurprogrammers I have worked with, in the past and present, who never even heard of USENET. It's un-freaking-believable the kinds of people who are calling themselves programmers these days. It seems all that is required is a high school diploma, if that. No experience or knowledge necessary. The Indians are going to destroy the American software industry if this shit continues.
Oh, please...it definitely has its moments. My FEMALE roommate and I were watching it, and they had this bit where they go to the mall and postulate this question to women: "If you could have an operation that made you smarter, but your butt got bigger, would you do it?" To a one, every woman asked said "no". Both my roommate and I found it very funny. Of course, being male, I enjoy the girls on trampolines, and my roommate leaves the room during that bit...
Hell, I actually LIKE the hum of computers...if you have enough in a room, in tends to tone down the noise from co-workers. People need to get some perspective on this - a few years back, line printers and dot matrix printers were deafening and disruptive - then laser printers became de facto standards. And has anyone here ever worked in a computer room? I mean one with the raised floor and specialized air conditioning, etc? You had to SHOUT about that din of a white noise...so something that is barely louder than the hum of fluorescent lighting is barely something to get your panties in a wad about. There are better things to do with your time than critique such a small amount of noise. Geez.
Ah, yes. I couldn't agree more. One of the many problems with this whole industry is the fact that many people holding MIS degrees didn't start out working for that degree; they switched because they couldn't hack Comp Sci....that, and they wanted "status" as a manager of others, but without any real qualifications. Now, I know some MIS programs are very substantial, but I went to two different schools (transferred) and at both, the people in MIS were pure dumbasses who were heading for failure in Comp Sci, so changed majors. None of them had read any of what I consider required reading (Yourdon, Brooks, etc.). I'm not sure what they are teaching those guys, but it sure isn't good Software Management. Software Management is more than just a f!#$#$ Gantt chart, friends. I'm trying to figure out a nice way to educate certain PHB's I work for right now; do I leave a copy of Mythical Man Month on their desk with a note? Do I force them to go to school? (Some of them don't even have an MIS degree or Comp Sci degree) One induhvidual (my current PM and PHB) has actually said these things, and I quote:
1. "UML is academic". (in a derogatory way, of course)
2. "From my experience, there are two types of software management books; ones written for programmers and ones written for project managers." (Wonder what he would consider Brooks' stuff as - he hasn't read it, of course)
All of his wisdoms are, of course delivered in a very condescending attitude, as if talking to children...which is very funny, because nearly everybody in the room for both times are much smarter than him, and better organized, to boot.
Anyway, back on topic: this guy is just indicative of a lot of attitudes in this industry: come up with a ridiculous schedule, hold the programmers to it, do a shoddy design on it (and don't spend enough time on it, either), don't follow any of the more widely accepted processes, and then hold programmers to blame for schedule slips and misfeatures.
Another problem is that people are hiring practically anyone breathing to code now, and dismissing degrees as unnecessary, while at the same time giving older programmers (who hold EE or CS degrees) the boot....and then screaming for more H1-Bs (ie, cheap labor).
I know not every company is like this...is anyone working at a company that does it right in Denver, CO, area?
You are right, there is no "universal" community, but there are now (well, as of 1984) cross-sections of culture that didn't exist before....how do you communicate if you are on, say, comp.lang.java.programmer? There are people who read that newsgroup from probably every country in the world, no? The language used is ENGLISH. Sure, people post in other languages, but they usually don't start up much of a discussion if they do that. And yes, there are localized versions of some newsgroups, but how likely are they to get a good representation of people who might add to their community? Not too likely....if its a NG that discusses something universal, the language to use is English. If its something geographically significant (jobs, for sale/wanted items, etc), then speak local language.
I guess my point is that when you have a reason to believe that your communication will have to reach across borders, better use a standard, or a de facto one; and right now that's English.
I agree with this. I think there were studies cited showing that, in U.S., people's reading and writing skills are on the rise, and that may be due to the use of the Internet. I don't have any cites handy, sorry.:(
I don't want to attack your tool of choice, but is Delphi using an ANSI or ISO standard? I hear good things about Delphi, so don't get me wrong. I used to program in PowerBuilder, so I know all about vendor lock-in via proprietary languages.:)
I think he was trying to make a point about how ANSI (and later, ISO) C has evolved to adapt over time...even though vendors like M$ try to triple-E it: embrace, extend, and extinguish.
I was born in U.S. and still live there, and I can say there is no shame in speaking English just because it is the de facto standard for communication. Why does the U.S. have so much self-hatred? I've always said that we (U.S.) should convert to metric system (the English measurement system is really, really stupid) and the rest of the world should bend to English language, despite whims of silly countries like France. Now, I know, I know. It sounds ethnocentric. It's not really. It just makes sense. There is all this effort at translation and that adds up to misunderstandings among countries, it adds up to lots of money as well. Culture != language. Think about it: do Canada and America and U.K. and Australia and India all have the same culture? I think not.
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Although your bit about Nazis and the Bush family is obviously a red herring, I'd like to point this out:
The first move Hitler did when he came to power was to make citizens hand over their firearms. Bush (Sr.) was a card-carrying member of the NRA. Hmmm, tends to contradict a bit, there, eh?
If anyone could be tied to Nazi-like tactics, it'd be the New Left: witness the Clinton/Reno team in action, for example.
You are right about the vacation.
The question is...how does, say, Germany, manage
that? Six weeks is the norm, there, as I understand it. Yet they are one of the top 3 countries in GNP, no? WTF is wrong with the U.S. in this department?
More managers need to be reading Peopleware. It's too bad you can't fire your boss.
When people ask their workers what the office might need, it's often ignored anyway. I was working as a contractor at one site, and they asked everyone (including contractors) what the office needed to spruce things up. At least one perm person and myself asked for a genuine water cooler, since the water there was so bad, and everyone who wanted it had to buy bottled water and bring it in.
Guess what we got instead? We got those fucking "motivational" posters that the new edition of Peopleware blasts so badly. What friggin idiots the mgmt at this client was. The one I sat in front of had some quote like, "Teamwork, Many hands, one goal". The freakin' picture was of the CHINESE WALL!!!! Hello?! The Chinese Wall was built by SLAVES! Why not just show a field of cotton and American slaves picking it? How insulting! What f**king moron dreamt this picture up, and who decided to put it up after that? When I pointed this fact out about this particular (de)motivational poster, I know it was just put down as me being a "whiner", and promptly ignored. I couldn't WAIT for my contracting company to pull me. That was 11 months of pure hell...I can't imagine WTF the perm people were doing there.
Needless to say, every time I hear anything about that company, its about some new boneheaded thing
happening, or another person quitting.
Damn straight it's corporate welfare...
as a voting Libertarian, I cannot possibly believe how a person claiming to be Libertarian can use Libertarian arguments in favor of the H1-B system.
What a short-sighted PHB you must be...."Nobody has any business..."?
Well, sir, I'm a consultant, and I get my main office to forward mail to my Hotmail account...it can sometimes be pertinent information, and it's nice to get it in a timely fashion...if it's something that's not important at that time, I can usually figure that out from the header, and read it later....that takes maybe all of a minute to check maybe 2-3 times a day.
Maybe no one has any business using the office restroom, either, as it uses up those valuable "work resources". Maybe the consulting firm I work for shouldn't call me during working hours as it also uses up the client site's "work resources".
Geez, I'm glad I never worked with/for anyone that had an attitude as bad as yours must be.
You must be a shipload of fun at work...
No. It's NOT allowing them to stay here. It's allowing them to stay here for a TEMPORARY time period...big difference. If companies were serious about really needing workers, they'd vie for extensions of TIME to CURRENT H1-B visa holders, not add to the pile of new people coming in, and booting older ones out. That's bollocks. I'm all for immigration, but this is not immigration.
And humans aren't "capital".
Well, laissez-faire is a French word, so it can't be uniquely American...
Yes, the Constitution was written to have an anti-Government slant, but this country is careening toward bigger and bigger government every year, no matter if it's Demopublicans or Republocrats at the helm...
Well, our schools try to force *everyone* through school whether they might be more fit for a blue-collar job or not, and it might be comparing apples to oranges to compare our school system, with say, France, which makes people "qualify" for their version of high school. Also, it's a public school system, do all nations have public schools for K-12 range? I doubt it. So comparisons are suspect in my eyes, unless they take these factors into account. Do you have any cites for these sources?
And yes, I'm Libertarian.
Depends where you are. Most of U.S., anyone can call themselves an Engineer. In Texas, I don't believe you can. In Canada, you can't either?
This book needs to be standard reading for any chowderhead managers who can't figure some of this stuff out for themselves...believe it or not, many can't.
ie, developers NEED offices with doors. That's, right, those things that close. Instead, what happens? Manglement gives themselves the best offices first, and of course the people who need the most quiet and most configurable environment get what? Yes, cubes. I've seen offices that contained ONE "manager" that could have easily
been broken up into 4 or 5 good-sized offices -
that could have been given to developers, and probably housed 8 to 10 of them. No, instead it has to be a land-grab by upper management to show all the other primates in management they have status (developers typically don't see stuff in the terms that the typical manglement drone does).
Management needs to treat developers more like artists than clerical staff. Developers are not data-entry people, and their job involves more than just typing. I know this may be a revelation for middle to upper management, but this is true.
It's not about status. It's about keeping your workers happy and productive, and cubes don't lend themselves to either.
And if you are too damn cheap and/or stupid to ditch the cubes, then turn off those f'ing fluorescent lights, GOD DAMN IT! Why is the absolute worst lighting for computer work so common in the workplace?
Well, completing a college degree shows the person has completed something that takes some amount of effort to complete. College also tends to make a person more well-rounded. That's not always the case, but if I have a choice of who to work with non-degreed or degree'd, I'd choose degreed any day. When I get a vacant stare from someone when I mention, say, some concept typically taught in a basic Algorithms class, I can't help but get irritated. When I have to explain how a linked list works, something is wrong.
I wouldn't outright rule out non-degreed people, but no other engineering profession would allow non-degreed people to do work, why should software engineering be any different?
The REAL problem is the rampant age discrimination in this industry, plain and simple.
There are plenty of older, experienced, DEGREED folks out there who have a tough time getting decent salaries. How can that be, if we truly have a shortage?
Idealist!
I read the HHGTTG series, Stephenson, etc. Okay, maybe you're right...I CAN enter into rational discussion about immigration. Personally, I am very much FOR immigration into the U.S....however,
I very much dislike the notion of temporary foreign workers. It sets a very bad precedent, and in the long run, it's going to hurt not just the domestic and foreign worker, it's going to hurt American business. Why? Well, for the short run, just domestic and foreign workers get screwed:
Domestic workers get their wages depressed by cheap, temporary foreign labor.
Foreign workers are effectively indentured servants for the company that is sponsoring them. Yes, this isn't always so, but it often is.
In the long run: all the foreign labor that was returned back to their country now can staff a competitor company in foreign country (after getting training on the job in U.S.). You could argue that the cream of the crop winds up in America because of companies vouching for them, etc., while the chaff winds up back in their original country, but I'm not sure this is always the case.
Anyway, this country has always gotten some of its best people and ideas from PERMANENT immigration: Einstein, for example. How in the hell do you think he would have turned out if he knew he was going back in 6 years?! WTF is a temporary visa about? It's just Congress caving in to big money interests.
If you think arguing against H1-B's is just about xenophobia, you're missing the point...and that's just what the corps want people to think the argument is about. If they REALLY had a shortage
of workers that could staff their companies, they
would argue for PERMANENT immigration...but I don't see any companies arguing for that. Instead,
they argue for more people to be added to a system that guarantees a new supply of fresh, young, naive, underpaid IT workers who have less rights than the average citizen. But the shortage of workers is only a PERCEIVED shortage. The real shortage is the amount of money corps are willing to spend on American workers that are older and experienced and know exactly what they are worth and are willing to work 40-45 hours a week, not 60-70+ hours a week.
Since when did getting an engineering degree involve geography? Sure, some people are focused on their fields to the near-exclusion of all others, but just because someone can't point to where London is on a map doesn't make them stupid, and it's hardly an indication of the "dumbing down" of the American school system. If American's school system is so bad, why is it that so many foreigners attend our schools? HMMM? I can name some H1-B's who didn't know a lick of C coding, does that mean India's school system is dumbed down? Believe me, I have yet to meet an H1-B who learned to do my job better than me. You get out of your education what you put into it. I grew up in a backwards rural town, and I speak perfect *American* English, thank you very much. This silly notion that the Queen's English is the only valid version is also a bunch of bull. With that being said, I have no problems with immigrants coming here and working, however, I do have a problem with the concept of H1-B's. It's a method by which American corps can screw both foreign and domestic workers, by pitting them against one another, and laughing all the way to the bank (temp visas depress the domestic workers salary).
Anyway. I think it's just the U.S. looking for a way to sweat-shop IT as well as every other kind of labor that they have "outsourced". The problem is that you CANNOT have sweat-shop labor with knowledge workers. It just doesn't work. The best people leave for better opportunities, and since the best opportunities (most $$$) are in the U.S., who do you think is coding your outsourced project? HMMMM? That's right, the chaff. BTW, I'm currently involved in a project involving outsourcing to Pakistan. It's a trainwreck-in-progress, let me tell you. Not sure management knows it yet, but hey, I'm just a consultant there, so no one would listen to me anyway....
But see, you aren't necessarily the norm. Not all H1-B's know their (limited)rights, or read salary surveys, apparently. Very few are willing to shop around. And even if a company is paying 70K, that's still less than what some workers might make doing certain tasks, esp. if we weren't saddled with H1-B's. And the only way that is held down to that level is by perpetuating the current temp worker situation. If, instead, like I said in my first post, REAL immigration was encouraged, and not the bogus notion of H1-B's, more would benefit. Also, H1-B's are just not the panacea that companies like to portray them as; it's just a tool that companies use to deflate salaries and keep those "uppity programmers" in their place. Sorry to imply that H1-B's or foreigners are idiots, didn't mean to. There are many naive ones, though. And, so far, I've yet to work with an H1-B that was a real super star..they were all mediocre at best, so it's not like the company could not have re-trained an older worker (who is current citizen) at same or less cost. Congratulations on your green card, BTW. Hope you stay a long, long time. :)
Nope. H1-B's are not about immigration - they are about supplying corps with lots of young, underpaid workers, and keeping programming salaries down, too. I'm all for immigration, but H1-B's don't keep the "talent" (I put talent in quotes because I've worked with a few H1-B's in my day, and I was underwhelmed), they supply training for other countries such as India, and then send 'em back to their country in a few years. I'm all for PERMANENT immigration, but that temp shit has got to go. Those folks are holding down your salary and my salary, and then, when the corps have used them up, they get sent back, and then they will be begging for more H1-B's. If the corps weren't such pieces of shit, they'd be asking for EXTENSIONS to the H1-Bs that are here, or giving out green cards to those that are here...but no, see, the H1-B's that are nearing their end of term are wising up, and asking for more pay, etc...the corps want new, fresh, naive, H1-B's! The USA was built on immigration, not temp workers...if you bring people here to work, they ought to be given the opportunity to stay here, I say. The current system is about screwing both the U.S. citizen and the foreign national and the corps reaping all the benefit.
> how? would you like to see an ultra
> conservative bush government censor the net?
While the IDEALS of the conservatives and liberals
might be different, in actuality, once they get into office, its business as usual, no matter if they are Demopublicans or Republicrats....
Let me quote from the Libertarian web site (http://www.lp.org):
"This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians."
Hugh Downs, Co-host ABC-TV's 20/20, 31 March 1997
> It's funny how liberals will smoke weed yet at the same time yell at you for eating red meat or smoking cigarettes. So taking a drug that kills your brain cells is ok yet the occasional comsumption of steak is a sin. Sure smoking tobacco might take 15 years off your life but the last 15 are the worst any ways.
Whoa, did that poster say he was a liberal? Or that he was a pot smoker? Jeez, while we are on the stereotype bit, let's just say all conservatives are KKK members...it's pure bollocks but you just said "liberals will smoke weed yet at the same time yell at you...". I can name a few liberal I know who MIGHT do just what you said, but most I know don't fit that description. I can name some conservatives who are white supremacists, but that doesn't fit all of conservatism, now does it? I could also name Libertarians that are , but that wouldn't make ALL that way, either.
I, for one, am Libertarian...I am, of course, for the legalization of ALL drugs, and I don't do any of the (currently) illegal ones...I *am* a daily user/abuser of caffeine, I do occasionally enjoy ONE beer at a meal, and yes, it might be red meat at said meal. I don't have any problem with those who want to smoke cigarettes, either, and I think a lot of the anti-smoking legislation is just ridiculous and another example of Big Government stepping into areas it has no business (private businesses).
BTW, I enjoyed the Denis Leary reference there....
Why bother paying anyone to yank banner ads? Better to use something like squidguard to block those annoying things - price: $0.
I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL by the lack of people who know what USENET is...I work as a programmer, and there are many poseurprogrammers I have worked with, in the past and present, who never even heard of USENET. It's un-freaking-believable the kinds of people who are calling themselves programmers these days. It seems all that is required is a high school diploma, if that. No experience or knowledge necessary. The Indians are going to destroy the American software industry if this shit continues.
Oh, please...it definitely has its moments. My FEMALE roommate and I were watching it, and they had this bit where they go to the mall and postulate this question to women: "If you could have an operation that made you smarter, but your butt got bigger, would you do it?" To a one, every woman asked said "no". Both my roommate and I found it very funny. Of course, being male, I enjoy the girls on trampolines, and my roommate leaves the room during that bit...
Hell, I actually LIKE the hum of computers...if you have enough in a room, in tends to tone down the noise from co-workers. People need to get some perspective on this - a few years back, line printers and dot matrix printers were deafening and disruptive - then laser printers became de facto standards. And has anyone here ever worked in a computer room? I mean one with the raised floor and specialized air conditioning, etc? You had to SHOUT about that din of a white noise...so something that is barely louder than the hum of fluorescent lighting is barely something to get your panties in a wad about. There are better things to do with your time than critique such a small amount of noise. Geez.
1. "UML is academic". (in a derogatory way, of course)
2. "From my experience, there are two types of software management books; ones written for programmers and ones written for project managers." (Wonder what he would consider Brooks' stuff as - he hasn't read it, of course)
All of his wisdoms are, of course delivered in a very condescending attitude, as if talking to children...which is very funny, because nearly everybody in the room for both times are much smarter than him, and better organized, to boot.
Anyway, back on topic: this guy is just indicative of a lot of attitudes in this industry: come up with a ridiculous schedule, hold the programmers to it, do a shoddy design on it (and don't spend enough time on it, either), don't follow any of the more widely accepted processes, and then hold programmers to blame for schedule slips and misfeatures.
Another problem is that people are hiring practically anyone breathing to code now, and dismissing degrees as unnecessary, while at the same time giving older programmers (who hold EE or CS degrees) the boot....and then screaming for more H1-Bs (ie, cheap labor).
I know not every company is like this...is anyone working at a company that does it right in Denver, CO, area?
I guess my point is that when you have a reason to believe that your communication will have to reach across borders, better use a standard, or a de facto one; and right now that's English.
I agree with this. I think there were studies cited showing that, in U.S., people's reading and writing skills are on the rise, and that may be due to the use of the Internet. I don't have any cites handy, sorry. :(
I think he was trying to make a point about how ANSI (and later, ISO) C has evolved to adapt over time...even though vendors like M$ try to triple-E it: embrace, extend, and extinguish.
I was born in U.S. and still live there, and I can say there is no shame in speaking English just because it is the de facto standard for communication. Why does the U.S. have so much self-hatred?
I've always said that we (U.S.) should convert to metric system (the English measurement system is really, really stupid) and the rest of the world should bend to English language, despite whims of silly countries like France.
Now, I know, I know. It sounds ethnocentric. It's not really. It just makes sense. There is all this effort at translation and that adds up to misunderstandings among countries, it adds up to lots of money as well. Culture != language. Think about it: do Canada and America and U.K. and Australia and India all have the same culture? I think not.