If the money is good enough, I'll come. But that's the other problem, the main reason these countries want to import foreign labour is that they want to import cheap labour...
What jobs do you think will remain that could be considered "menial work"? We have arrived at the point where it's possible (although not cheap enough just yet) to eliminate all burger flipper jobs, the only thing missing is that the machines are still more expensive than the humans. Otherwise, that level has been reached.
And I don't see many jobs for this group of people being created due to automation or due to a shift in what people want. Most people in the "developed" world are working in the third sector, i.e. service industry. And we're working hard on eliminating those jobs now. Where should these people go? Just saying "oh, until now every time we eliminated jobs, something else came along". Yes. This worked because that was something that could not be automated back then. When agriculture was turned from a labor intensive to a machine intensive industry, the emerging factories took the people in, we actually had a shortage of workers until the industrial revolution. Automation in this area created free labor for the emerging service industry. Mind you, there has always been a gap of misery between those paradigm shifts.
Now that we automate and thus eliminate jobs in the service industry (which is already in a pretty bad shape because services are the first thing people cut down on when money gets tight), where will these people go? You don't need sophisticated AI to eliminate jobs and displace workers that have rather limited cognitive abilities, "shut up or I replace you with a very small script" is no longer just an empty threat. For some it has become painful reality, and for some more it will in the foreseeable future.
I'd guess that Amazon being one of the first to replace their workers packing stuff with automated shelves that pack and ship their crap fully automated. And that's only the beginning. As a side effect this also means that smaller businesses will go out of business because they cannot afford the machinery and logistics behind, which creates even more unemployed people. What we're looking at in the future (not the near future, but give it a decade or two) is large companies that are staffed only by management and a handful of technicians to keep the machines running, no jobs left for "blue collar" workers.
We're talking about roughly 40-50% of the workforce having no chance to ever have a job in merely a decade or two. I hope I'm not the only one who can identify this as a huge problem.
Europe. Our postal services work a bit differently. Also, there's insane competition (think of it this way: You have like 20 national postal services that may be no longer national but now, in an open market, all want to grow into the markets of the other 20 postal services, with some independent companies like EMS or UPS thrown in for fun and profit).
4.1% unemployment means jack shit. Seriously. Want to bet that I can put ANY country ANYWHERE on less than 2% unemployment? Just allow enslaving unemployed people. Presto zero unemployment. Well, I'd have to feed and shelter slaves, that could be more expensive than paying them in the US, though...
How many of those employed can actually sustain their life with the job(s) they have?
Trust is the opposite of demanding multiple questions of "may I?". When I trust someone, I trust them to know where to stop and to notice and act on the clues he gets.
Can you do what they do, then you could make their salary.
My resume says yes. And yes I did, but then I'd have to waste my time again sitting with them in pointless meetings and management seminars. Sorry, but I could actually do some meaningful work instead. Maybe they get the money for being able to endure hours and hours of bullshit talking, I don't know.
But the truth is no one values what you can do, much.
Odd. My inbox with the various headhunters begging me to talk to them could have fooled me. Who'd have guessed, the combination "financial auditor", "IT security consultant" and "hardware design and development" is apparently rare. At least with relevant degrees and certificates.
So shut up and get more valuable skills
What would you suggest to complete my portfolio of skills? I was pondering legal, but I'm open for suggestions.
I honestly wouldn't know what to spend the money on. Like Ledger's Joker said, the things I enjoy are cheap. Ok, mine ain't gasoline, explosives and firearms. Rather, it's cheap hardware (mostly SOC and similar ICs), programming, building tools... I have no use for booze, I hate going to big parties or even bars, and given that I spend all week talking to people I have little use for too much company in my spare time. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good chat, but I do choose my partners carefully.
Money is something I use to live my life. I don't live my life to make money. I have no use for it.
It's the exact problem. If there is no way a person can legally see any chance to ever make enough money to actually make a living, there are rather few options left. And as you identified, once you've gone down that path, getting out is pretty much an illusion.
It's not unemployment. The US doesn't have a high unemployment rate. What it has is a lot of working poor, people who have a job yet still earn not enough to ever see a chance to get out of the miserable situation they're in. What good is having a job if it barely sustains you?
If you arrive at the point when the mob rises up, you're fucked either way. You can of course gun them down, and the rest of the world will look at you like you've just turned into the ugly stepchild of Kim Yong Un and Osama Bin Laden, which would make international politics pretty uncomfortable for the US. I mean, if you make Russia look like a lovely place in comparison, you're really fucked. Not to mention that this would finally totally rip the country apart and you can kiss any semblance of a remaining democracy good-bye.
You can try to reason with them and be gunned down instead, of course, which would be even worse.
By now I thought it became obvious that social problems cannot be solved with guns... but some kids need to touch the stove more than once.
How is the pursuit of happiness in any way accomplished by doing something you hate doing? I'd have thought that would be pretty much the diametrically opposite.
I honestly could not imagine that. Why would anyone subject himself to something like this? I mean, sure, I could think of more interesting things to do than what I do at work, and I could definitely enjoy sleeping longer (seriously, forcing someone to work before noon just isn't cool), but doing something I hate?
Quite frankly, before that I'd start getting creative with alternative approaches to acquiring the funds to make a living.
Yes, I have. After the dot.com time I had plenty of money to spend so I took a few years off. I picked up a lot of hardware knowledge, developed a few early IoT tools, developed a terrain rendering engine and started into IT security, then spent some time finding out about and acquiring certifications in this area.
At some point I had to earn money again, there's plenty of things I couldn't finish yet, sadly, lacking time.
Slashdot Mirror
It is my opinion that a full day's work should allow you to sustain your family for a full day.
A sensible law. How is it possible that you can pay someone so little for his work that I have to compensate with my tax money?
How the hell is it legal to pay someone SO little money for a job that they qualify for food stamps?
Painting a turd doesn't make it smell any better.
If the money is good enough, I'll come. But that's the other problem, the main reason these countries want to import foreign labour is that they want to import cheap labour...
I was in Southern California. Trust me. That area has an official language. And it's Spanish.
GREAT idea!
What jobs do you think will remain that could be considered "menial work"? We have arrived at the point where it's possible (although not cheap enough just yet) to eliminate all burger flipper jobs, the only thing missing is that the machines are still more expensive than the humans. Otherwise, that level has been reached.
And I don't see many jobs for this group of people being created due to automation or due to a shift in what people want. Most people in the "developed" world are working in the third sector, i.e. service industry. And we're working hard on eliminating those jobs now. Where should these people go? Just saying "oh, until now every time we eliminated jobs, something else came along". Yes. This worked because that was something that could not be automated back then. When agriculture was turned from a labor intensive to a machine intensive industry, the emerging factories took the people in, we actually had a shortage of workers until the industrial revolution. Automation in this area created free labor for the emerging service industry. Mind you, there has always been a gap of misery between those paradigm shifts.
Now that we automate and thus eliminate jobs in the service industry (which is already in a pretty bad shape because services are the first thing people cut down on when money gets tight), where will these people go? You don't need sophisticated AI to eliminate jobs and displace workers that have rather limited cognitive abilities, "shut up or I replace you with a very small script" is no longer just an empty threat. For some it has become painful reality, and for some more it will in the foreseeable future.
I'd guess that Amazon being one of the first to replace their workers packing stuff with automated shelves that pack and ship their crap fully automated. And that's only the beginning. As a side effect this also means that smaller businesses will go out of business because they cannot afford the machinery and logistics behind, which creates even more unemployed people. What we're looking at in the future (not the near future, but give it a decade or two) is large companies that are staffed only by management and a handful of technicians to keep the machines running, no jobs left for "blue collar" workers.
We're talking about roughly 40-50% of the workforce having no chance to ever have a job in merely a decade or two. I hope I'm not the only one who can identify this as a huge problem.
Europe. Our postal services work a bit differently. Also, there's insane competition (think of it this way: You have like 20 national postal services that may be no longer national but now, in an open market, all want to grow into the markets of the other 20 postal services, with some independent companies like EMS or UPS thrown in for fun and profit).
4.1% unemployment means jack shit. Seriously. Want to bet that I can put ANY country ANYWHERE on less than 2% unemployment? Just allow enslaving unemployed people. Presto zero unemployment. Well, I'd have to feed and shelter slaves, that could be more expensive than paying them in the US, though...
How many of those employed can actually sustain their life with the job(s) they have?
Trust is the opposite of demanding multiple questions of "may I?". When I trust someone, I trust them to know where to stop and to notice and act on the clues he gets.
Jokes lose all impact if they turn out to be real. It's kinda bizarre...
Have you ever heard of Linux? Or OSS in general?
Just checkin'...
Well, you're complaining about people having to pay for other people. Who pays when nobody is left working?
Can you do what they do, then you could make their salary.
My resume says yes. And yes I did, but then I'd have to waste my time again sitting with them in pointless meetings and management seminars. Sorry, but I could actually do some meaningful work instead. Maybe they get the money for being able to endure hours and hours of bullshit talking, I don't know.
But the truth is no one values what you can do, much.
Odd. My inbox with the various headhunters begging me to talk to them could have fooled me. Who'd have guessed, the combination "financial auditor", "IT security consultant" and "hardware design and development" is apparently rare. At least with relevant degrees and certificates.
So shut up and get more valuable skills
What would you suggest to complete my portfolio of skills? I was pondering legal, but I'm open for suggestions.
I honestly wouldn't know what to spend the money on. Like Ledger's Joker said, the things I enjoy are cheap. Ok, mine ain't gasoline, explosives and firearms. Rather, it's cheap hardware (mostly SOC and similar ICs), programming, building tools... I have no use for booze, I hate going to big parties or even bars, and given that I spend all week talking to people I have little use for too much company in my spare time. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good chat, but I do choose my partners carefully.
Money is something I use to live my life. I don't live my life to make money. I have no use for it.
It's the exact problem. If there is no way a person can legally see any chance to ever make enough money to actually make a living, there are rather few options left. And as you identified, once you've gone down that path, getting out is pretty much an illusion.
It's not unemployment. The US doesn't have a high unemployment rate. What it has is a lot of working poor, people who have a job yet still earn not enough to ever see a chance to get out of the miserable situation they're in. What good is having a job if it barely sustains you?
If you arrive at the point when the mob rises up, you're fucked either way. You can of course gun them down, and the rest of the world will look at you like you've just turned into the ugly stepchild of Kim Yong Un and Osama Bin Laden, which would make international politics pretty uncomfortable for the US. I mean, if you make Russia look like a lovely place in comparison, you're really fucked. Not to mention that this would finally totally rip the country apart and you can kiss any semblance of a remaining democracy good-bye.
You can try to reason with them and be gunned down instead, of course, which would be even worse.
By now I thought it became obvious that social problems cannot be solved with guns... but some kids need to touch the stove more than once.
I have. The details are a few posts upwards from here.
Are you sure you replied to the right person? That doesn't make sense as an answer.
When we arrive at the point where we pretty much lose all jobs to robots, who would pay?
So that's why it's called a blowjob...
That explains that odd name.
How is the pursuit of happiness in any way accomplished by doing something you hate doing? I'd have thought that would be pretty much the diametrically opposite.
I honestly could not imagine that. Why would anyone subject himself to something like this? I mean, sure, I could think of more interesting things to do than what I do at work, and I could definitely enjoy sleeping longer (seriously, forcing someone to work before noon just isn't cool), but doing something I hate?
Quite frankly, before that I'd start getting creative with alternative approaches to acquiring the funds to make a living.
Yes, I have. After the dot.com time I had plenty of money to spend so I took a few years off. I picked up a lot of hardware knowledge, developed a few early IoT tools, developed a terrain rendering engine and started into IT security, then spent some time finding out about and acquiring certifications in this area.
At some point I had to earn money again, there's plenty of things I couldn't finish yet, sadly, lacking time.