Losers is a strong term. User maybe. Mainly because while it does do the things you mention it also means that when the video or sound blows up on it that you have to swap out a motherboard to get it back also this program is of geeks, for geeks, and by geeks and ask your average geek about onboard anything most of them will shudder and tell you a horror story. Simply put most geeks think that they advantages of freeing up two slots and a slight reduction in power consumption is not worth it. Real life story. The box that your CEO uses fries it's onboard sound 30 minutes before he is supposed to have a video meeting online. Thank diety it was a "clean" mobo 15 minutes down to Frys 5 minutes to pop out the piece the machine shipped with and pop in a SBlive. About that long to install the drivers and life was good. Now unless you can afford to keep mobos around as spare parts you could not do this with onboard sound, video, nic what have you. These people do not want to sell a machine to Lusers they want to work with hard core techie geeks. Yup give me clean mobos any day.
In talking about *nix Neal Stephenson wrote "this is a system invented by people to whom repetitive stress disorder is what black lung is to miners." So yes I think it will make some changes and I think this is something we should care about. But they have to be sure to ask us what works and what does not as long as we the "miners" have some input this could be a good thing
"For example, I don't really think it's possible to completely secure either SuSE or Debian, due to the sheer number of packages included." WTF, Does that mean? Speaking for Debian 2.2 you pop in the CD boot up partition and all that good stuff install the kernel, install the base system. When you get to the install the rest of the system prompt choose simple select *nothing* from the list of tasks click on ok it will not install another package drop you right to a log in prompt. At that point you can install what you want and only what you want. Ever try to do that with RH I have and maybe I was doing something stupid but I could not make it work. Just a base system and nothing else. On RH even if I picked no packages it still installed stuff after that point. Are there a large number of packages out there for Debian? Sure. But if you want to make a really simple, secure, clean bastion host IMHO there is no easier way to do a very basic install and then build on it than Debian. Now having flamed the boys one thing that I think is very cool about their work and the thing I liked most about it when I used RH was the education aspect. If you run in the interactive mode and read all the info you will understand what was changed how to change it and then if later you go to another distro you will have the knowledge to do it by hand. All in all great work guys but please learn a bit about Debian before making statements like this.
Re:I have read all of Dune, and also enjoy these..
on
Dune: House Harkonnen
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· Score: 2
They did not detect him in the no-ship with powers it was broken he was phasing in and out.
The Duncan Idaho storyline with the swordmasters or Ginaz and the background on the rules of war. This I thought was *very* cool. No it is not Dune and maybe someone besides Anderson should have been brought in but I thought that overall it was very solid. Now what I would like to see the do is take Brian (for the names sake) and someone else (Neal Stephenson leaps to mind) and do a set of books based during the Butlerian Jihad (sorry if my spelling is off at work nothing to check with) Stpehenson because I think his take on the AIs would be great. I would love to have a book with the Battle or Corrin in it. OTOH I really hope they don't do a book about Paul's birth I think that would take things just a step too close to the great original.
Calm down buddy I was throwing out examples of what you were talking about. I was saying you where right and adding my own thoughts on the subject to it. Maybe would have been better to respond to the parent but whatever. This was not a flame. But I am still trying to figure out why my first post in this thread was a troll? The moderation for about the last week has been insane.
Can you say Oracle? Can you say Sun? This article is dead on. Hell any of the Linux companies would be able to give at least as much bandwidth and hardware to the project as AOL does. The only reason, IMHO, that they stick with AOL is that it is easier everything is in place but to move it would be far from fatal and in fact in the long run by making it clear that working on Mozilla is *not* working for AOL it would make for a stronger project. But for now it is doing just fine. BTW, I just grabbed the nightly and it is pretty slick.
Could something like this work to build it. I can't wait to get home and play with it. I'm serious here lets build it, install it and give it to them. These boys used the term "geek rock" over 5 years ago this alone makes them worthy of our time and effort.
to the children and to freedom loving people everywhere to help out. These boys were geek when geek wasn't cool. I don't know enough to code this for them but you can bet I'll be bugging everybody I know about it. Must go do freshmeat search. In any case basically the point of this post is that They Might Be Giants rule and I would love to be part of a team that helps them. I mean who here does not listen to them and feel geek pride everytime? I know I do. That having been said we had a very similar system about 5 years ago when I was in the Air Farce so if it could be done then and on Winders why not today and on *nix. Go team.
I don't know what the answer to this question would be but here we go anyway. How much of that has to do with the fact that it was under winders. As I understand a compiler is *very* dependant on memory. What kind of a differnce would running in console under Linux (or another *nix make)Or is Free Pascal winders only. Also the last time I touched Pascal was in HS (10+ years ago) What does one use it for these days?
On what do you base the comment "It's from a Borland developer," If it is based off of the fact that he says he is a Borland developer I got some real estate you might want to take a looke at? Come on....
This intranet had about 4000 users. You are right they did not know how to run it. I did not either but I did know how to run the box I was. This is my point in spite of all this a PHB will *still* pay for support. After all if they reason if someone really knew how to do this and could do it with free (as in beer and speech) software why would anyone pay M$ for their stuff therefore it must be a fluke (one of the really said this to me) They simply can not admit that their worldview is wrong.
The point is that LCDs are getting better all the time and that that blur is as much the fault of the cheapass vid cards they put in laptops as the fault of a a LCD problem. So this will help and it will be very cool.
See this is the problem we are not talking about the same thing you are talking about savvy geeks who know that they do not need to have their handheld and do not care if their is anything behind it. I,and I suspect the other posters, are talking about managers who don't know C from Perl the kind of people who really make these purchases . This simple fact is these people will pay through the nose for support and will in many cases do *anything* to ensure that they will have a phone number to call and someone on the other end who has the same piece of software running and acces to a great big database of info on that software. For example at the last place I worked they had a intranet server running IIS. I was allowed to mirror it on a Debian box with Apache while the M$ box kept crashing every couple of days down for a average of 10 to 20 minutes my mirror had uptime of about 200 days when I left and AFAIK is still up and running. The still would not switch. Why? "Well when it does go down who is going to support it?" You see it did not matter that I had been supporting it and kicking the IIS boxes ass for over 200 days it only mattered to them that they had a phone number and someone to call when the M$ bo went down. This is typical. These are PHBs not geeks. This is why you are wrong.
Yup if you yell I WILL agree. I don't think so the key here is to add value to your product so that buying it from you becomes a better option. For example if a company had a database that they sell for megabucks and at the same time are giving away a certain level of support for this product for free. Now say they see the light and GPL the database. Now you are right no one would pay for the official copy of the database unless for example the support was priced on the free copies in such a way that it make more sense to buy a copy or if say paid support is cheaper for people who buy the software. Or say you throw in tools and information for free to people to who buy it. Or say you produce such a great product and GPL it and provide such great service that people are willing to pay for it in order to encourage this kind of thing. It is called quality and yes it can be done. It is called support. Yes you would have to work very hard and be really good to make it work but I think this is a good thing.
in say the past 50 years. Once now granted the Nixon/Kennedy thing was close but was not this close and Ford/Carter was also close but not this close. This was a one off in which some spoiled ballots in a place that happens to make a difference this time came to light. To give you another example. There are thousands of spoiled ballots here it Utah discarded because they can't run through the machines. Guess what no one cares. Why? Because they are not going to matter. Guess what there are thousands of spoiled ballots everywhere in the country that do not matter this time around. Then there are the spoiled ballots that happen to matter this time around and everyone talks about how the system is broken. The system is not broken. It is working how it should we have a very close vote in which spoiled ballots may play a role. So it is going to be looked at my everyone involved depending on what is decided by the people who decide such things it will all work out. Think about it when was the last time you did not know who was the next president by about 7 or 8 in the evening local time. For most of us this is the first time. It is very intersting that all the news shows are talking about "how every vote counts this time" because you know what they like everyone else know that in the past every vote did not count. This is true even if you don't want to deal with it. So what are we left with? The system is working like it has worked and I for one see no real reason to try to reform it. I mean look at Brazil with their online voting and they are just really stable and have not problems with elections. yea right.....
You may be right on many of the things in this post but the statement "You can't combine Open Source (which is a protected term, mind you)with selling the same product for thousands of dollars," is dead wrong. There is *nothing* in the GPL or the definition of Open Source that prevents you from selling a GPLed product for however much you can get people to pay for it. It is about free as in speech not beer. Now granted since once you sell it to them you have to give them the source and can't prevent it from giving it to anyone they want to it may be rather hard to get someone to pay big bucks for it. Now you may be right in that they would not want to get into this game in fact I think you are but repeat after me. You can sell a GPLed product for all the money you can get people to pay for it. There is *nothing* in the GPL that prevents you from selling the software. This is important. If more people got this fact it would be easier to get PHBs to understand that you can sell it the key is making people want to pay for it and I for one think there are many ways you can do that.
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Losers is a strong term. User maybe. Mainly because while it does do the things you mention it also means that when the video or sound blows up on it that you have to swap out a motherboard to get it back also this program is of geeks, for geeks, and by geeks and ask your average geek about onboard anything most of them will shudder and tell you a horror story. Simply put most geeks think that they advantages of freeing up two slots and a slight reduction in power consumption is not worth it. Real life story. The box that your CEO uses fries it's onboard sound 30 minutes before he is supposed to have a video meeting online. Thank diety it was a "clean" mobo 15 minutes down to Frys 5 minutes to pop out the piece the machine shipped with and pop in a SBlive. About that long to install the drivers and life was good. Now unless you can afford to keep mobos around as spare parts you could not do this with onboard sound, video, nic what have you. These people do not want to sell a machine to Lusers they want to work with hard core techie geeks. Yup give me clean mobos any day.
You mean you could build something like floppyfw
In talking about *nix Neal Stephenson wrote "this is a system invented by people to whom repetitive stress disorder is what black lung is to miners." So yes I think it will make some changes and I think this is something we should care about. But they have to be sure to ask us what works and what does not as long as we the "miners" have some input this could be a good thing
Just to add to the list "The White Plauge" is a outstanding book.
"For example, I don't really think it's possible to completely secure either SuSE or Debian, due to the sheer number of packages included." WTF, Does that mean? Speaking for Debian 2.2 you pop in the CD boot up partition and all that good stuff install the kernel, install the base system. When you get to the install the rest of the system prompt choose simple select *nothing* from the list of tasks click on ok it will not install another package drop you right to a log in prompt. At that point you can install what you want and only what you want. Ever try to do that with RH I have and maybe I was doing something stupid but I could not make it work. Just a base system and nothing else. On RH even if I picked no packages it still installed stuff after that point. Are there a large number of packages out there for Debian? Sure. But if you want to make a really simple, secure, clean bastion host IMHO there is no easier way to do a very basic install and then build on it than Debian. Now having flamed the boys one thing that I think is very cool about their work and the thing I liked most about it when I used RH was the education aspect. If you run in the interactive mode and read all the info you will understand what was changed how to change it and then if later you go to another distro you will have the knowledge to do it by hand. All in all great work guys but please learn a bit about Debian before making statements like this.
They did not detect him in the no-ship with powers it was broken he was phasing in and out.
The Duncan Idaho storyline with the swordmasters or Ginaz and the background on the rules of war. This I thought was *very* cool. No it is not Dune and maybe someone besides Anderson should have been brought in but I thought that overall it was very solid. Now what I would like to see the do is take Brian (for the names sake) and someone else (Neal Stephenson leaps to mind) and do a set of books based during the Butlerian Jihad (sorry if my spelling is off at work nothing to check with) Stpehenson because I think his take on the AIs would be great. I would love to have a book with the Battle or Corrin in it. OTOH I really hope they don't do a book about Paul's birth I think that would take things just a step too close to the great original.
I think my children have been doing this. It would explain alot about them. :)
Calm down buddy I was throwing out examples of what you were talking about. I was saying you where right and adding my own thoughts on the subject to it. Maybe would have been better to respond to the parent but whatever. This was not a flame. But I am still trying to figure out why my first post in this thread was a troll? The moderation for about the last week has been insane.
Stupid /. bug that is twice today it has been right in preview and then bad when I hit submit. Oh well. They did in fact do Debian
No the did Debian . Just seems that the author of the article did not mention it. BTW the O'Reilly book is much better just don't use the CD. Get a standard install of 2.2, the online version or the O'Reilly book, and Running Linux and you will be good to go much better than the dummies book.
Can you say Oracle? Can you say Sun? This article is dead on. Hell any of the Linux companies would be able to give at least as much bandwidth and hardware to the project as AOL does. The only reason, IMHO, that they stick with AOL is that it is easier everything is in place but to move it would be far from fatal and in fact in the long run by making it clear that working on Mozilla is *not* working for AOL it would make for a stronger project. But for now it is doing just fine. BTW, I just grabbed the nightly and it is pretty slick.
I was sure the link looked right in preview sorry. Here it is again.
This is Netscape not Mozilla. They are the same thing. Is it going to be buggy? Yup so is any other piece of software when it first comes out. I don't have it yet but I do know that on my Debian box at home I prefer 4.x to the current builds of Mozilla but I might try it again it has been a few months.
Could something like this work to build it. I can't wait to get home and play with it. I'm serious here lets build it, install it and give it to them. These boys used the term "geek rock" over 5 years ago this alone makes them worthy of our time and effort.
to the children and to freedom loving people everywhere to help out. These boys were geek when geek wasn't cool. I don't know enough to code this for them but you can bet I'll be bugging everybody I know about it. Must go do freshmeat search. In any case basically the point of this post is that They Might Be Giants rule and I would love to be part of a team that helps them. I mean who here does not listen to them and feel geek pride everytime? I know I do. That having been said we had a very similar system about 5 years ago when I was in the Air Farce so if it could be done then and on Winders why not today and on *nix. Go team.
I don't know what the answer to this question would be but here we go anyway. How much of that has to do with the fact that it was under winders. As I understand a compiler is *very* dependant on memory. What kind of a differnce would running in console under Linux (or another *nix make)Or is Free Pascal winders only. Also the last time I touched Pascal was in HS (10+ years ago) What does one use it for these days?
On what do you base the comment "It's from a Borland developer," If it is based off of the fact that he says he is a Borland developer I got some real estate you might want to take a looke at? Come on....
This intranet had about 4000 users. You are right they did not know how to run it. I did not either but I did know how to run the box I was. This is my point in spite of all this a PHB will *still* pay for support. After all if they reason if someone really knew how to do this and could do it with free (as in beer and speech) software why would anyone pay M$ for their stuff therefore it must be a fluke (one of the really said this to me) They simply can not admit that their worldview is wrong.
The point is that LCDs are getting better all the time and that that blur is as much the fault of the cheapass vid cards they put in laptops as the fault of a a LCD problem. So this will help and it will be very cool.
See this is the problem we are not talking about the same thing you are talking about savvy geeks who know that they do not need to have their handheld and do not care if their is anything behind it. I ,and I suspect the other posters, are talking about managers who don't know C from Perl the kind of people who really make these purchases . This simple fact is these people will pay through the nose for support and will in many cases do *anything* to ensure that they will have a phone number to call and someone on the other end who has the same piece of software running and acces to a great big database of info on that software. For example at the last place I worked they had a intranet server running IIS. I was allowed to mirror it on a Debian box with Apache while the M$ box kept crashing every couple of days down for a average of 10 to 20 minutes my mirror had uptime of about 200 days when I left and AFAIK is still up and running. The still would not switch. Why? "Well when it does go down who is going to support it?" You see it did not matter that I had been supporting it and kicking the IIS boxes ass for over 200 days it only mattered to them that they had a phone number and someone to call when the M$ bo went down. This is typical. These are PHBs not geeks. This is why you are wrong.
Yup if you yell I WILL agree. I don't think so the key here is to add value to your product so that buying it from you becomes a better option. For example if a company had a database that they sell for megabucks and at the same time are giving away a certain level of support for this product for free. Now say they see the light and GPL the database. Now you are right no one would pay for the official copy of the database unless for example the support was priced on the free copies in such a way that it make more sense to buy a copy or if say paid support is cheaper for people who buy the software. Or say you throw in tools and information for free to people to who buy it. Or say you produce such a great product and GPL it and provide such great service that people are willing to pay for it in order to encourage this kind of thing. It is called quality and yes it can be done. It is called support. Yes you would have to work very hard and be really good to make it work but I think this is a good thing.
in say the past 50 years. Once now granted the Nixon/Kennedy thing was close but was not this close and Ford/Carter was also close but not this close. This was a one off in which some spoiled ballots in a place that happens to make a difference this time came to light. To give you another example. There are thousands of spoiled ballots here it Utah discarded because they can't run through the machines. Guess what no one cares. Why? Because they are not going to matter. Guess what there are thousands of spoiled ballots everywhere in the country that do not matter this time around. Then there are the spoiled ballots that happen to matter this time around and everyone talks about how the system is broken. The system is not broken. It is working how it should we have a very close vote in which spoiled ballots may play a role. So it is going to be looked at my everyone involved depending on what is decided by the people who decide such things it will all work out. Think about it when was the last time you did not know who was the next president by about 7 or 8 in the evening local time. For most of us this is the first time. It is very intersting that all the news shows are talking about "how every vote counts this time" because you know what they like everyone else know that in the past every vote did not count. This is true even if you don't want to deal with it. So what are we left with? The system is working like it has worked and I for one see no real reason to try to reform it. I mean look at Brazil with their online voting and they are just really stable and have not problems with elections. yea right.....
No you are right the first poster has no clue.
You may be right on many of the things in this post but the statement "You can't combine Open Source (which is a protected term, mind you)with selling the same product for thousands of dollars," is dead wrong. There is *nothing* in the GPL or the definition of Open Source that prevents you from selling a GPLed product for however much you can get people to pay for it. It is about free as in speech not beer. Now granted since once you sell it to them you have to give them the source and can't prevent it from giving it to anyone they want to it may be rather hard to get someone to pay big bucks for it. Now you may be right in that they would not want to get into this game in fact I think you are but repeat after me. You can sell a GPLed product for all the money you can get people to pay for it. There is *nothing* in the GPL that prevents you from selling the software. This is important. If more people got this fact it would be easier to get PHBs to understand that you can sell it the key is making people want to pay for it and I for one think there are many ways you can do that.