Exactly. I believe that people who have certs only are basically the one who ruined the IT industry in the first place. Now people think any idiot who goes out and gets certified can do your job, and that's wrong.
This is why so many morons come into the software industry thinking that it's "easy" nowadays. They end up fucking everything up royally, but they don't realize it. What's worse is some of these people are so damn arrogant they can't be told when they're wrong.
Make sure that the contract specifically states that the company only owns what you do *for them* and beware of overreaching clauses which say they own "any and all inventions created by employee...".
It's a dog eat dog world out there. You also need to remember that the law is often not black and white. Without knowing the specifics of his case it's difficult to tell of alcatel really may have had a legitimate claim or not.
Should there be a police organization specifically for the net which might have the authority to hack someone's machine if they are breaking the law with it?
GJC
What this article boils down to...
on
Are You Annoying?
·
· Score: 1
Is basically, we IT people, should dumb it down for the rest of the world so they don't feel bad because they're relatively stupid.
To me, a "serious" application simply defines it's capabilities and usefulness. I mean, after all, the question any developer must ask themselves is "can I use this tool to do what I need?" I guess to you a "serious application" needs to be purely coded in one language.
No, I never said that. One of the true tests of a language's capabilities, however, is the kind of app it can be used to make all by itself.
Since the rest of your message is predicated on the false assumption that I asserted this, I should ignore it, but lets examine one of the things you did say:
Most apps in the world today would fail that test, including just about any GUI-based C# Mono apps, which also would rely on C/C++ for much of their code.
C# uses the Window's code to present a consistent interface to the user. But what you're talking about is the layer of the OS that is used to present the gui. By that standard every program in the world is mostly C or C++.
I'll presume that you understood meaning when I said "an app written in python" to mean an app whose main functionality is written in python, NOT one in which simply glues together very large apps to form it's core function, such as the one you described in your previous posting.
By this measure, it's my opinion that Python simply fails miserably to measure up. No scripting language can hope to beat a compiled language in terms of speed. This isn't cliche or stereotypical, it's just a cold hard technical fact of life. The closer to the iron you get, the faster the program will run.
Yes, but only that implementation. If you or someone else created an implementation of the API independently, it's okay.
In the case of patent:
The company or entity which controls the patent can sue you for infringement no matter if you did it on your own or not. Patents are a much greyer area as far as the law is concerned.
It seems as though SCO is trying to bring back the days of copyrighted APIs as well (based on a few landmark cases such as Apple v. Franklin, you can't), which have long since gone the way of the Do-do.
I will risk my karma rating (which is excellent) to continue to foster this unpopular, but true, fact. My comment was more than stereotypical, it was true.
Most of the "apps" you pointed out involve python messaging or controlling something which is written primarily, of course, in C or C++. So while they may indeed by serious apps, they fail to satisfy the "serious apps *in python*" statement.
Also, I never said that Python and other *scripting* languages aren't worth anything. The article however, is about Mono and C# which is, from what I understand, JIT *compiled*. You're response implies that one should consider using wxPython since it's "better".
If you can point me to one, just one serious application (not a testing suite or one where python simply acts as a glue mechanism) written *entirely* using Python, I'll change my mind.
Oh, and for the guys who modded me down, do it again, 'cuz my karma can take it.:P
GJC
Re:And how is this better than wxWidgets/wxPython?
on
Ars Technica Tours Mono
·
· Score: -1, Troll
I'm already using it (and improving it!). What amazes me is that the authors act like Mono is breaking new ground by having a portable programming language that can do GUIs but is easier than Java. Hello? Apparently no one ever told them about Python/wxPython?
These are both purely interpreted languages.:) They're useless for development of serious apps.
GJC
1) Many business if the computer industry do not create "products" in the same sense that MS does. They create *custom* software for a client. Every job I've ever had in the industry has done this and open source and free software only make it easier.
2) Businesses offering support for open source and Free Software products are flourishing. Red Hat and Novell/SuSE are good examples. No one buys a failing business.
You'll pardon us, Bill, if we don't take your unquestionably very biased, word for it.
Seriously, I found the article to be very informative. It shows SCO in the light the deserve to be shown and that is as a bunch of litigious bastards. One thing to remember here, however, is that Ransom Love, the previous CEO of Caldera, was responsible for finding his own replacement. Do you think that he didn't research Darl's background? I know if I had, I would have seen this coming a mile and a half away.
METRIC ASSLOAD? Is that about the same as a SHIT TON?? Just wondering.:)
Your statement is incorrect. Prior art in terms of the patent office includes publications, scientific or otherwise pertaining to the subject matter in question.
For instance, if you came up with something which you considered to be patentable in the software realm (i hate sw patents) and something had been published more than a year before your filing in a computer journal, lets say.. communications of the ACM or something. The publication of this material would render your idea unpatentable.
The issue is that there is something called "Rule 56" which states that the person applying for the patent must submit all prior art of which "he or she is currently aware of" at the time of filing. This cannot be enforced, since there is no way to prove that someone is or is not aware of something at any given point in time.
Slashdot Mirror
That's because they're not new languages. Just extensions of the C# set of frameworks to encompass new APIs.
:)
So it's still C#.
GJC
Exactly. I believe that people who have certs only are basically the one who ruined the IT industry in the first place. Now people think any idiot who goes out and gets certified can do your job, and that's wrong.
This is why so many morons come into the software industry thinking that it's "easy" nowadays. They end up fucking everything up royally, but they don't realize it. What's worse is some of these people are so damn arrogant they can't be told when they're wrong.
GJC
You must be a 24 month Comp Sci graduate! ;)
Don't hire anyone from Northface University.
GJC
Make sure that the contract specifically states that the company only owns what you do *for them* and beware of overreaching clauses which say they own "any and all inventions created by employee...".
It's a dog eat dog world out there. You also need to remember that the law is often not black and white. Without knowing the specifics of his case it's difficult to tell of alcatel really may have had a legitimate claim or not.
GJC
No. A significant portion of the inventive process must take place at work in order for that to happen.
GJC
To give them some leway to show that they do need the UNIX copyrights in court, or something?
GJC
They just haven't done the research yet. Patents are often used in a defensive manner in the industry.
GJC
Should there be a police organization specifically for the net which might have the authority to hack someone's machine if they are breaking the law with it?
GJC
Is basically, we IT people, should dumb it down for the rest of the world so they don't feel bad because they're relatively stupid.
I think that sums it up.
GJC
To me, a "serious" application simply defines it's capabilities and usefulness. I mean, after all, the question any developer must ask themselves is "can I use this tool to do what I need?" I guess to you a "serious application" needs to be purely coded in one language.
No, I never said that. One of the true tests of a language's capabilities, however, is the kind of app it can be used to make all by itself.
Since the rest of your message is predicated on the false assumption that I asserted this, I should ignore it, but lets examine one of the things you did say:
Most apps in the world today would fail that test, including just about any GUI-based C# Mono apps, which also would rely on C/C++ for much of their code.
C# uses the Window's code to present a consistent interface to the user. But what you're talking about is the layer of the OS that is used to present the gui. By that standard every program in the world is mostly C or C++.
I'll presume that you understood meaning when I said "an app written in python" to mean an app whose main functionality is written in python, NOT one in which simply glues together very large apps to form it's core function, such as the one you described in your previous posting.
By this measure, it's my opinion that Python simply fails miserably to measure up. No scripting language can hope to beat a compiled language in terms of speed. This isn't cliche or stereotypical, it's just a cold hard technical fact of life. The closer to the iron you get, the faster the program will run.
GJC
Yep, they fell right out. I got the surgery a few years back and one day they just "PLOP" fell into my lap and I've been blind as a bat ever since.
;)
Oh, wait, how did I type this... nevermind.
GJC
In the case of copyright:
Yes, but only that implementation. If you or someone else created an implementation of the API independently, it's okay.
In the case of patent:
The company or entity which controls the patent can sue you for infringement no matter if you did it on your own or not. Patents are a much greyer area as far as the law is concerned.
It seems as though SCO is trying to bring back the days of copyrighted APIs as well (based on a few landmark cases such as Apple v. Franklin, you can't), which have long since gone the way of the Do-do.
GJC
I will risk my karma rating (which is excellent) to continue to foster this unpopular, but true, fact. My comment was more than stereotypical, it was true.
:P
Most of the "apps" you pointed out involve python messaging or controlling something which is written primarily, of course, in C or C++. So while they may indeed by serious apps, they fail to satisfy the "serious apps *in python*" statement.
Also, I never said that Python and other *scripting* languages aren't worth anything. The article however, is about Mono and C# which is, from what I understand, JIT *compiled*. You're response implies that one should consider using wxPython since it's "better".
If you can point me to one, just one serious application (not a testing suite or one where python simply acts as a glue mechanism) written *entirely* using Python, I'll change my mind.
Oh, and for the guys who modded me down, do it again, 'cuz my karma can take it.
GJC
I'm already using it (and improving it!). What amazes me is that the authors act like Mono is breaking new ground by having a portable programming language that can do GUIs but is easier than Java. Hello? Apparently no one ever told them about Python/wxPython?
:) They're useless for development of serious apps.
GJC
These are both purely interpreted languages.
I go to gmail...
period.
GJC
For at least 2 reasons:
1) Many business if the computer industry do not create "products" in the same sense that MS does. They create *custom* software for a client. Every job I've ever had in the industry has done this and open source and free software only make it easier.
2) Businesses offering support for open source and Free Software products are flourishing. Red Hat and Novell/SuSE are good examples. No one buys a failing business.
You'll pardon us, Bill, if we don't take your unquestionably very biased, word for it.
GJC
If enough well known personalities and big corporations get involved and start saying the same things, it's very likely you will start to see reform.
GJC
Commodore lives? Holy crap.
Seriously, I found the article to be very informative. It shows SCO in the light the deserve to be shown and that is as a bunch of litigious bastards. One thing to remember here, however, is that Ransom Love, the previous CEO of Caldera, was responsible for finding his own replacement. Do you think that he didn't research Darl's background? I know if I had, I would have seen this coming a mile and a half away.
:)
METRIC ASSLOAD? Is that about the same as a SHIT TON?? Just wondering.
Later, GJC
Of course. I have many cool PS1 games which I want to run on the PS2 and, no I don't want both of them connected to the TV, one is enought thanks.
GJC
Your statement is incorrect. Prior art in terms of the patent office includes publications, scientific or otherwise pertaining to the subject matter in question.
For instance, if you came up with something which you considered to be patentable in the software realm (i hate sw patents) and something had been published more than a year before your filing in a computer journal, lets say.. communications of the ACM or something. The publication of this material would render your idea unpatentable.
The issue is that there is something called "Rule 56" which states that the person applying for the patent must submit all prior art of which "he or she is currently aware of" at the time of filing. This cannot be enforced, since there is no way to prove that someone is or is not aware of something at any given point in time.
See the petition below...
GJC
There you have it folks. Patent infringment in one line.
GJC
Why not get rid of the whole mess of bills and move to total electronic currency?
You can't counterfiet a form of money which has no physical form. So long as all of the banks and other such institutions are sufficiently hardened,
Thanks, GJC
Since by definition the source can't be closed.
:/
It really sucks when dumb-assed gov't officials behave like everyone is out to make a buck and everyone keeps their code a secret.
GJC