Where is the statement immature when all they are doing is stating their opinion which is quite viable (I personally would get pissed if I was looking for firebird database stuff and ended up with mozilla all over my google search...you say you could say -browser, but maybe I am searching for something database related to a browser). I see nothing immature about the following, please explain the immaturity in the statement below:
Mozilla browser becomes Firebird Today the Mozilla organization announced that the new name for their browser would be Firebird.
We at IBPhoenix think that having a browser and a database with the same name in the same space will confuse the market, especially as browsers and databases are often used in the same applications (thank you Lester Caine). What can you do if you too are unhappy about this decision?
First, let other people know. If you have a Firebird related website or newslist, explain the problem or point people to the IBPhoenix site.
Let the Mozilla forums know how you feel. They've already taken some heat in forums on their website. To join that fray, you must register. Check http://www.mozillazine.org/forums/index.php and http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?ar ticle=3 075 for the discussion.
You might also send mail to the following people and groups:
Asa Dotzler - he made the announcement and has been defending the Mozilla intellectual property lawyers by saying that no one could confuse a database with a browser.
drivers@mozilla.org - drivers are the project managers of Mozilla, they keep the project stable and moving forward. They should know what effect their new name has on another open source project.
These people are the technical project leaders of Mozilla. They too should be aware that the possibility for confusion exists.
For more information about the Mozilla organization, look at: http://www.mozilla.org/about/stafflist.html and http://www.mozilla.org/about/roles.html.
Here are the staff email addresses.
Mitchell Baker, Chris Blizzard, Scott Collins, Asa Dotzler, Brendan Eich, Dawn Endico, David Hyatt, Gervase Markham, Myk Melez, Daniel (Leaf) Nunes, Seth Spitzer, Peter Bojanic, Frank Hecker, Marcia Knous, Dan Mosedale, Mike Shaver.
Um, yea. Thats obviously because the yamaha was burning the memorex cds at their supposedly 24x rate, whereas the tdk was burning at 12x. So the media was over-rated on its speed. Too bad you had no idea what you were doing and sent it back, sad really.
Yamaha, Plextor, Richo are about the top of the line and they are on constant flux as to which has the best unit out. TDK is just a cheap oem drive, though they are pretty solid.
Didn't they do this once before? I wonder, because I got a version of Compaq Tru 64, Solaris for Sun hardware and solaris for x86, Digital VMS and SCO Unixware and SCO OPenserver and all about the same time a few years ago. I think I had to pay like $10-20 bucks for some of them for media costs, but the licensing was free.
At least I am not a coward and have the balls to post my opinon as myself as apposed to hiding behind anonymous. I really should have just ignored this, but this kind of pitiful whining sometimes gets my attention for God only knows what reason.
Your probably right, at least on the (b) or (c) since (a) would probably not get him all the credit he deserves. It is probably wishful thinking on my part that he might go ahead and convert totally to linux, but that is of course up to him to decide.
Good, let them kick him out, he is needed more elsewhere. Looks like he will be an awesome kernel developer now that he has more time to work on Linux. IMHO, The freebsd group has been edgy all along anyways and their inability or wishes to tell the community why they canned him is both unacceptable and plain silly.
Most of the development on Linux is done by individuals that do it for their own pleasure or need, it is not done by sweatshops like you find in India for profit. MS is just going their to cut their costs and get rid of some of their high paid workers here, IMHO.
>This makes it extremely easy for newbies to >Lindows to understand which icons on the taskbar >they should click to get started. It's a simple >scheme that other distros should consider >emulating.
Hmm, SuSE has been doing that for years. I suppose the reviewer needed to get out more:)
I cannot say that I was as happy with the Borland folks, especially the sales and marketing staff. I guess I'll leave it at that.
Same here, they do not seem to understand that we programmers are actually people too instead of numbers.
. . . may not have figured out what customer service really is yet (release a product open-source and then try to distance ones self from it, what's up with that?).
Aforementioned, its becasue its Borland of course, they claimed it was a mistake and all and fired some folks if I remember correctly for releasing it (I hope thats just aweful rumor), they tried to kill the open source by saying they could not use the interbase name and such, but who cares:). Now they have turned around and started claiming all the new features in the new firebird and even released version 6.5 of their database that is remarkably like the firebird enhancements, but they did release it under the mozilla like license so they can use it commercially and sell it as their own:P. They recently release a free version their delphi/builder for linux (kylix) so people can help them develop it too.
Anyway, based upon your observations and my previous experiences I do think that Interbase/Firebird should be part of a lot of people's toolkits. I have never understood why the product has never caught on.
Yes I do think firebird should be used when the conditions require a more powerful free solution.
I think it did not catch on because Ashton Tate bought it from Groton and forgot they left it in the closet (did not market it due to their love of their own DBase product). At least Borland did pay a little attention to it, well they decided it was a nice example database solution to add to their new Delphi/Builder compilers to push BDE onto folks. They never did really market it either. It does have quite a large user base despite marketings mistakes.
At least firebird can market itself as a full featured, free solution now. I think they are better off not closely associating themselves with borland due to Borland's aforementioned lack of support. I use it as a backend to jsp (tomcat) and php for web based use (has two jdbc connection options, the old one interclient and a new native access one). It has perl and an excellent c/c++ preprocessor and a very complete api. Its udf support is awesome, and of course it has multiple ways of seeing the data according to the type of application is nice, for instance, its optimistic non-locking (shadowing) mode is perfect for web use. It of course is great for normal multi user use as an company database also.
Actually I already mentioned this in a previous post, but the open source version of interbase that is actually being developed is firebird, interbase was put out there as open source then sort of abandoned by borland.
Borland now sells a commercial version of interbase again (based on the open source code 6.0 beta and some of the older orginal firebird updates before 1.0 release no less), and shun the free one which is more current and has less bugs as far as my testing has shown.
The free abandoned code however was picked up by the orginal developers and named firebird for continued development due to naming restrictions.
Some of the developers incidentally quit borland with their blessing to start a new interbase company, then borland sort of said they never said they would back the venture and that they could not use the interbase name for their version.
The wife of the man conceived interbase and was there even before it was called interbase (it was groton database system back then) now heads the open source bunch and many key developers from borland, and elsewhere, and many users are involved in firebird at various levels.
I can testify for its speed, its quite fast and efficient. They are doing a major re-write to make it easier for cross platform (though it supported many platforms including windows, netware, linux, as400, dos, various unix, and things that no longer exist, it was convoluted spagetti code).
Hey if it was good enough for the M1 tank databases, its good for me (the M1 computers reboot when it fires due to EMP, so interbase was chosen for stability, extremely quick crash recovery and restart, and the fact that interbase has no maintenance schedule since its self maintaining is great too).
http://firebird.sourceforge.net is its official home now.
Its not Dis, its quite dead on in some areas...
on
IBM, MS Critique MySQL
·
· Score: 2, Informative
they actually have a few good points. Of course they bundled it with other open source databases which was not quite fair, as some, such as firebird (interbase derivative) outruns it and had native transactional support and advanced capabilities such as transaction shadowing. And yes I have ran all the open source ones side by side comparitively and actually have found that mysql has a LOT of missing features and is slower than firebird/interbase even with it in non-transaction mode with firebird in using full transactioning/shadowing support. Those of you that think an add on transactional engine such as in mysql (I know its bundled now, but its still an add on) is as good as a database built from the ground up with transactions in mind has not been working with anything of any real depth. And what of the lack of stored procedures, what of triggers, is it that you are just not ready to accept reality that you do not have to code everything client side. In fact I suspect you have tried little else than mysql if you think its worthly of more than a small scale usage, think again. Some day mysql will gain procedures. triggers and the lack I hear, but at the present, in the same tasks as firebird and the commercial databases, I find it wanting and somewhat crippled.
I dare say pulling a lot of records to client side to compare with other tables, even on the same machine and updating them will take quite a long time whereas it might take less than a second for 100000 to be updated with some criteria with a stored procedure.
Of couse you can send parameters to a procedure and you can return them from it, either as single value from an execute procedure or a select on the procedure as if it were a table creating extremely custom data sets that you just cannot get from a view. Which brings me to views, mysql dont even have views as far as I know, now that is pretty important.
Also about triggers, would it not be nice to be able to have your server create a series of sub table records for you when you insert the primary one, and also delete them when you delete the primary, or update them automatically, even pulling data from various other tables at high speed, all wrapped in the protection of a transaction off the main table? Well thats once tiny aspect of the use of triggers.
Well I hope you realize just how simple and wanting mysql is, do not think you have power until you have actually been exposed to it. Try firebird (http://firebird.sourceforge.net) if you want to see what you are missing, or a commercial counterpart before you decide mysql is good enough. I see mysql is supposed to add all these features in 5.0, but its just now starting in the 4.0 tree, I welcome it but in the meantime, look around.
Actually macs cost more in all respects. You see you look at the fact that companies get rid of their pcs more often. This is quite true, but the reason is quite different that what you might guess. When a company buys macs, it keeps them longer because they cannot justify the cost of replacing them. The cost of a new mac is high and getting rid of it usually means the dump. Why the dump? Because when a mac gets older it probably will need repairs, and repairs to macs are expensive as was the new system, the directly makes them hard to get rid of. You try to give a school a good mac, they will normally thank you and refuse the offer (no tax writeoff there). You offer a school a good pc, and they will snatch it up and you can then write it off (I know you get to write off hardware when you buy it for up to 5 years, but the second writeoff makes the finiancial department happy as hell, they are the ones that write the purchase orders too). You see schools used to use a lot of macs, and they know the hardware is expensive to repair, and being a school they hardware is CONSTANTLY getting broken by students, so the repair costs of macs will break a school system. . . look around the schools, you will see a lot of old macs in storage that are broken and were given to the school by apple years ago, and a lot of working pcs many of which were donated by businesses.
So all someone would have to do is make their own port without the use of the XDK. What needs to be made as apposed to mame is linux for the xbox, then all the other things will be much simpler to port without the consent of microsoft
The signal on the satellite I am pointed to is very strong. A mild rain or even a fairly hard one does not bother it much, it is still quite usable most of the time. A downpour however does kill it, which we seldom get where I am at. However sunspots get it for about 5-10 minutes a day around 2 pm or so this time a year, but it comes back gracefully. The longest knockout I have had was because it was raining hard on the west coast for a couple of days where the noc is . . . seems a downpour on either end kills it quite dead.
Alas the cost is where the rub lies. I spent $600 for the install of my starband system and the modem, so I will be leary about doing that again...will they survive? I did get a free upgrade from a model 180 to a model 360 last year though. While I think the way to go in the country is satellite still, the new radio is a possible. I had a direcpc one way system, which is still on the side of my home, I suppose I could fire that one back up...the Fair Access Policy was crappy and I am sure it still applies to their two way. And DSL is out when you live 20 miles from the nearest town...AFAIK.
Slashdot Mirror
Where is the statement immature when all they are doing is stating their opinion which is quite viable (I personally would get pissed if I was looking for firebird database stuff and ended up with mozilla all over my google search...you say you could say -browser, but maybe I am searching for something database related to a browser). I see nothing immature about the following, please explain the immaturity in the statement below:
p r ticle=3 075
i bm .com,jaggernaut@netscape.com, hewitt@netscape.com,dean_tessman@hotmail.com,chani al@noos.fr,blakeross@telocity.com
and
Mozilla browser becomes Firebird
Today the Mozilla organization announced that the new name for their browser would be Firebird.
We at IBPhoenix think that having a browser and a database with the same name in the same space will confuse the market, especially as browsers and databases are often used in the same applications (thank you Lester Caine). What can you do if you too are unhappy about this decision?
First, let other people know. If you have a Firebird related website or newslist, explain the problem or point people to the IBPhoenix site.
Let the Mozilla forums know how you feel. They've already taken some heat in forums on their website. To join that fray, you must register. Check
http://www.mozillazine.org/forums/index.ph
and
http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?a
for the discussion.
You might also send mail to the following people and groups:
Asa Dotzler - he made the announcement and has been defending the Mozilla intellectual property lawyers by saying that no one could confuse a database with a browser.
drivers@mozilla.org - drivers are the project managers of Mozilla, they keep the project stable and moving forward. They should know what effect their new name has on another open source project.
These people are the technical project leaders of Mozilla. They too should be aware that the possibility for confusion exists.
hyatt@mozilla.org,varga@netscape.com,mkaply@us.
For more information about the Mozilla organization, look at:
http://www.mozilla.org/about/stafflist.html
http://www.mozilla.org/about/roles.html.
Here are the staff email addresses.
Mitchell Baker,
Chris Blizzard,
Scott Collins,
Asa Dotzler,
Brendan Eich,
Dawn Endico,
David Hyatt,
Gervase Markham,
Myk Melez,
Daniel (Leaf) Nunes,
Seth Spitzer,
Peter Bojanic,
Frank Hecker,
Marcia Knous,
Dan Mosedale,
Mike Shaver.
Well its useful for historical research for one, at least the written form anyway . . . the verbal form is of no use at all.
and sell it all about the time redhat stock goes IPO.
Um, yea. Thats obviously because the yamaha was burning the memorex cds at their supposedly 24x rate, whereas the tdk was burning at 12x. So the media was over-rated on its speed. Too bad you had no idea what you were doing and sent it back, sad really.
Yamaha, Plextor, Richo are about the top of the line and they are on constant flux as to which has the best unit out. TDK is just a cheap oem drive, though they are pretty solid.
Didn't they do this once before? I wonder, because I got a version of Compaq Tru 64, Solaris for Sun hardware and solaris for x86, Digital VMS and SCO Unixware and SCO OPenserver and all about the same time a few years ago. I think I had to pay like $10-20 bucks for some of them for media costs, but the licensing was free.
At least I am not a coward and have the balls to post my opinon as myself as apposed to hiding behind anonymous. I really should have just ignored this, but this kind of pitiful whining sometimes gets my attention for God only knows what reason.
Your probably right, at least on the (b) or (c) since (a) would probably not get him all the credit he deserves. It is probably wishful thinking on my part that he might go ahead and convert totally to linux, but that is of course up to him to decide.
Good, let them kick him out, he is needed more elsewhere. Looks like he will be an awesome kernel developer now that he has more time to work on Linux. IMHO, The freebsd group has been edgy all along anyways and their inability or wishes to tell the community why they canned him is both unacceptable and plain silly.
What was his ip subnet again? My filters need a new entry.
Most of the development on Linux is done by individuals that do it for their own pleasure or need, it is not done by sweatshops like you find in India for profit. MS is just going their to cut their costs and get rid of some of their high paid workers here, IMHO.
Not really, their mail server querys as
mail.permissionedmedia.com internet address = 200.75.201.36
you might wanna block that one on port 25 too
I got my pig heart a few years ago and it works fine, but my wife just had twins, and one looks kinda like a pig.
I am not sure if this is persistent, but also here is a direct link to the cache. The Google Cache Link for the Ad
Search for this in google "opsystems/windowsxp_setup.asp"
then click on the cache link.
>This makes it extremely easy for newbies to >Lindows to understand which icons on the taskbar >they should click to get started. It's a simple >scheme that other distros should consider >emulating.
:)
Hmm, SuSE has been doing that for years. I suppose the reviewer needed to get out more
Or you could just install linux, that way you dont have to buy any expensive hardware and be locked into Job's idea of a computer
Same here, they do not seem to understand that we programmers are actually people too instead of numbers.
. . . may not have figured out what customer service really is yet (release a product open-source and then try to distance ones self from it, what's up with that?).
Aforementioned, its becasue its Borland of course, they claimed it was a mistake and all and fired some folks if I remember correctly for releasing it (I hope thats just aweful rumor), they tried to kill the open source by saying they could not use the interbase name and such, but who cares :). Now they have turned around and started claiming all the new features in the new firebird and even released version 6.5 of their database that is remarkably like the firebird enhancements, but they did release it under the mozilla like license so they can use it commercially and sell it as their own :P. They recently release a free version their delphi/builder for linux (kylix) so people can help them develop it too.
Anyway, based upon your observations and my previous experiences I do think that Interbase/Firebird should be part of a lot of people's toolkits. I have never understood why the product has never caught on.
Yes I do think firebird should be used when the conditions require a more powerful free solution. I think it did not catch on because Ashton Tate bought it from Groton and forgot they left it in the closet (did not market it due to their love of their own DBase product). At least Borland did pay a little attention to it, well they decided it was a nice example database solution to add to their new Delphi/Builder compilers to push BDE onto folks. They never did really market it either. It does have quite a large user base despite marketings mistakes.
At least firebird can market itself as a full featured, free solution now. I think they are better off not closely associating themselves with borland due to Borland's aforementioned lack of support. I use it as a backend to jsp (tomcat) and php for web based use (has two jdbc connection options, the old one interclient and a new native access one). It has perl and an excellent c/c++ preprocessor and a very complete api. Its udf support is awesome, and of course it has multiple ways of seeing the data according to the type of application is nice, for instance, its optimistic non-locking (shadowing) mode is perfect for web use. It of course is great for normal multi user use as an company database also.
Actually I already mentioned this in a previous post, but the open source version of interbase that is actually being developed is firebird, interbase was put out there as open source then sort of abandoned by borland.
Borland now sells a commercial version of interbase again (based on the open source code 6.0 beta and some of the older orginal firebird updates before 1.0 release no less), and shun the free one which is more current and has less bugs as far as my testing has shown.
The free abandoned code however was picked up by the orginal developers and named firebird for continued development due to naming restrictions.
Some of the developers incidentally quit borland with their blessing to start a new interbase company, then borland sort of said they never said they would back the venture and that they could not use the interbase name for their version.
The wife of the man conceived interbase and was there even before it was called interbase (it was groton database system back then) now heads the open source bunch and many key developers from borland, and elsewhere, and many users are involved in firebird at various levels.
I can testify for its speed, its quite fast and efficient. They are doing a major re-write to make it easier for cross platform (though it supported many platforms including windows, netware, linux, as400, dos, various unix, and things that no longer exist, it was convoluted spagetti code).
Hey if it was good enough for the M1 tank databases, its good for me (the M1 computers reboot when it fires due to EMP, so interbase was chosen for stability, extremely quick crash recovery and restart, and the fact that interbase has no maintenance schedule since its self maintaining is great too).
http://firebird.sourceforge.net is its official home now.
they actually have a few good points. Of course they bundled it with other open source databases which was not quite fair, as some, such as firebird (interbase derivative) outruns it and had native transactional support and advanced capabilities such as transaction shadowing. And yes I have ran all the open source ones side by side comparitively and actually have found that mysql has a LOT of missing features and is slower than firebird/interbase even with it in non-transaction mode with firebird in using full transactioning/shadowing support. Those of you that think an add on transactional engine such as in mysql (I know its bundled now, but its still an add on) is as good as a database built from the ground up with transactions in mind has not been working with anything of any real depth. And what of the lack of stored procedures, what of triggers, is it that you are just not ready to accept reality that you do not have to code everything client side. In fact I suspect you have tried little else than mysql if you think its worthly of more than a small scale usage, think again. Some day mysql will gain procedures. triggers and the lack I hear, but at the present, in the same tasks as firebird and the commercial databases, I find it wanting and somewhat crippled.
I dare say pulling a lot of records to client side to compare with other tables, even on the same machine and updating them will take quite a long time whereas it might take less than a second for 100000 to be updated with some criteria with a stored procedure.
Of couse you can send parameters to a procedure and you can return them from it, either as single value from an execute procedure or a select on the procedure as if it were a table creating extremely custom data sets that you just cannot get from a view. Which brings me to views, mysql dont even have views as far as I know, now that is pretty important.
Also about triggers, would it not be nice to be able to have your server create a series of sub table records for you when you insert the primary one, and also delete them when you delete the primary, or update them automatically, even pulling data from various other tables at high speed, all wrapped in the protection of a transaction off the main table? Well thats once tiny aspect of the use of triggers.
Well I hope you realize just how simple and wanting mysql is, do not think you have power until you have actually been exposed to it. Try firebird (http://firebird.sourceforge.net) if you want to see what you are missing, or a commercial counterpart before you decide mysql is good enough. I see mysql is supposed to add all these features in 5.0, but its just now starting in the 4.0 tree, I welcome it but in the meantime, look around.
Nah the boats hits the bubbles on the surface and lose bouyancy (sp?) and sink. That was a kewl story, probably right on too.
Actually macs cost more in all respects. You see you look at the fact that companies get rid of their pcs more often. This is quite true, but the reason is quite different that what you might guess. When a company buys macs, it keeps them longer because they cannot justify the cost of replacing them. The cost of a new mac is high and getting rid of it usually means the dump. Why the dump? Because when a mac gets older it probably will need repairs, and repairs to macs are expensive as was the new system, the directly makes them hard to get rid of. You try to give a school a good mac, they will normally thank you and refuse the offer (no tax writeoff there). You offer a school a good pc, and they will snatch it up and you can then write it off (I know you get to write off hardware when you buy it for up to 5 years, but the second writeoff makes the finiancial department happy as hell, they are the ones that write the purchase orders too). You see schools used to use a lot of macs, and they know the hardware is expensive to repair, and being a school they hardware is CONSTANTLY getting broken by students, so the repair costs of macs will break a school system. . . look around the schools, you will see a lot of old macs in storage that are broken and were given to the school by apple years ago, and a lot of working pcs many of which were donated by businesses.
So the serialized interfaces like on the old atari and commodore computers were ahead of their time, granted they were slow?
So all someone would have to do is make their own port without the use of the XDK. What needs to be made as apposed to mame is linux for the xbox, then all the other things will be much simpler to port without the consent of microsoft
The signal on the satellite I am pointed to is very strong. A mild rain or even a fairly hard one does not bother it much, it is still quite usable most of the time. A downpour however does kill it, which we seldom get where I am at. However sunspots get it for about 5-10 minutes a day around 2 pm or so this time a year, but it comes back gracefully. The longest knockout I have had was because it was raining hard on the west coast for a couple of days where the noc is . . . seems a downpour on either end kills it quite dead.
Alas the cost is where the rub lies. I spent $600 for the install of my starband system and the modem, so I will be leary about doing that again...will they survive? I did get a free upgrade from a model 180 to a model 360 last year though. While I think the way to go in the country is satellite still, the new radio is a possible. I had a direcpc one way system, which is still on the side of my home, I suppose I could fire that one back up...the Fair Access Policy was crappy and I am sure it still applies to their two way. And DSL is out when you live 20 miles from the nearest town...AFAIK.