AOL's $299 PC

cmj writes "Internet.com reports 'Looking to attract households that still aren't online, AOL is offering new customers a $299 PC system if they sign a one-year $23.90 dial-up Internet service contract.' A click through AOL's ecommerce site reveals the the specs as 1.7 GHz Celeron with 256 MB RAM, 40 GB hard drive, 56K modem, 10/100ethernet card, 17" monitor and Lexmark printer. The PC is running Windows XP, and includes 'AOL Office Powered by Sun'. Also of note is the fact that the $299 appears to be financed at around 22%. The math ( (12*23.90)+299 ) seems to suggest that you can get a $699 computer for $585.80 plus any finance charges. Setting aside the question of whether this is a good deal or not, one has to wonder whether AOL is desperate for new customers and resorting to bribery, or just progressing to the next step of branding. With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."

Comments

Deja vu, MSN

[Liselle]

I distinctly remember Microsoft doing something similar with their $400 rebate for signing up for three years of MSN. They dropped it after a year or two. AOL's deal seems more financially risky to me, I wonder how they can pull it off.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[MikeXpop]

Rig the BIOS to stop the computer from booting when you stop using AOL?

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[king wilson]

I may be wrong about this, but didn't they stop that MSN promotion before they had initially planned, and ended up just letting people out of their contracts?

So that $585 computer could concievable cost even less....

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[dswensen]

I can personally attest to the fact that MSN most assuredly did not just start letting people out of their contracts. (Don't ask... I regret it to this day...)

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Anonymous Coward]

LMAO Sucker!

Bill G

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[rgmoore]

I think that you're remembering incorrectly. ISTR that the thing that really killed the MSN rebate business was that it had legal problems in some jurisdictions. In particular, California law made is such that people could sign up, drop the MSN service immediately, and not have to return the $400. When customers started to abuse this in droves (i.e. not long after somebody figured it out), Microsoft decided to can the idea.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[BroncoInCalifornia]

AOL's deal seems more financially risky to me, I wonder how they can pull it off.

$299 + 12*$23.90 = $585.80

I do not think they are losing money supplying a low end computer for over $500.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't recall the specifics, but at least in CA the contract was non-binding, and you could cancel the MSN service and keep the loot.

I speak from personal experience (still using the hard drive MS bought me ...)

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[nelsonal]

Yeah but if you figure it has to cost them around $10/month to provide the service there isn't a whole lot of profit left. They are hoping that most takers will not switch after two or more years.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[redJag]

do we have to have an acronym for every god damn expression? istr.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[ePhil_One]

Rig the BIOS to stop the computer from booting when you stop using AOL?

Why would AOL care? AOL saves money if you pay $24/mo for the service and don't use it. No support costs. I know this is Slashdot, and hence everything not open source is an evil corporate conspiracy, but seriously...

Its a cheap machine. We know this without seeing it. Maybe they will try to establish a brand and these will be quality PC's. If you're AOL you might figure you'll get 60% retention when the contract expires, 20% who just aren't using it, and 20% who move on to other services. Now think about what it costs to attract new customers to AOL. What it will cost to let those non-traditional users know about the program. What it will cost to support all those non-traditional users

Yeah baby, AOL's going to be riding the gravy train to bankrupcity!

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Anonymous Coward]

"Remember: behind every sleazy lawyer there's a sleazy client"

im sorry. i feel more sorry for the client as hes not exploiting misery for profit.

*proctologist? whats that? ... you mean at some point in this guys life he chose he wanted to specialize in butt holes??* - southpark

it applies just as well to lawyers

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[BroncoInCalifornia]

If the customer bails after 1 year I bet they break even. Those that stick around provide the gravy.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[prockcore]

$299 + 12*$23.90 = $585.80

I do not think they are losing money supplying a low end computer for over $500.

I see, and it costs AOL nothing to provide internet service for a year?

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Stubtify]

If you've ever seen how a person over 55 who's not used to using a computer uses the internet then you know just how little it will cost AOL for the service. My uncle seriously uses his aol once a week for an hour.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Anonymous Coward]

oywd. stfu.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[AKnightCowboy]

I distinctly remember Microsoft doing something similar with their $400 rebate for signing up for three years of MSN.

Prodigy was doing the same thing at Best Buy. Despite my advice to the contrary by brother took the bait. A year later he got cable modem with 2 years of crappy Prodigy dialup service tax left to pay. I still give him shit for that to this day. It would've been cheaper to finance it on a credit card.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not even a $300 pc. I bought a considerably better PC recently for $275 new (Same RAM, 2 ghz, 80 gig hd,actually had a DVD drive and a CD burner (separate. Ended up being cheaper than chosing the hybrid for some reason).

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Fishstick]

ISTR that TIIFTC.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[Anonymous Custard]

You could easily put together a computer with similar specs for around $300, and that's paying retail for single items. AOL is not taking any risks on this one.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[WalkingBear]

A quick jaunt through pricewatch.com gives a similarly configured machine for about $300 - $350. That's retail. I imagine that AOL isn't paying retail. They don't lose on this deal.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[coyotedata]

AOL guys like to be hand held.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[ls -lR]

It's probably safe to say that whatever it costs them, it's not 24 dollars a month.

If cheap dialup ISPs can survive on $5-$10/month plans then it stands to reason that AOL still has around $14/month to fund all of their "value added" services above and beyond basic internet access, and customer support. It's left as an exercise to the reader to decide whether it costs $14/month from EVERY subscriber to maintain chat rooms and discussion groups that are themselves chock full of ads, and customer support that basically amounts to reading a few prepared scripts of troubleshooting.

Re:Deja vu, MSN

[redJag]

Ah, I think I figured it out. I seem to remember?? Wow, that definitely does not need an acronym.

So...

[Anonymous Coward]

$299 with a $20+ a month lock-in contract, so what they really mean is something closer to about $450.

Oh sorry. $450 with MANDATORY AOL.

Re:So...

[fastidious edward]

And it is a dial up with possible extra charges in Alaska(!) using very old tech (17" knackered end-of production line CRT etc) no less. This is classic low margin sales... but the rest of the market is so saturated the low-end (joining Walmart etc) is possibly a place to make a buck.

Re:So...

[laird]

"$299 with a $20+ a month lock-in contract, so what they really mean is something closer to about $450."

You're exaggerating by leaving out the fact that they're getting AOL access, which millions of people are paying $20+ a month for without getting a cheap PC. If you think that AOL service is worth nothing, then your math works, I suppose, but...

Re:So...

[Micro$will]

If you think that AOL service is worth nothing, then your math works, I suppose, but...

IMO, it is worth nothing. In fact, they would have to pay me to use AOL. But yes, I suppose that the dozen or so people in the USA that don't have internet access now have an opportunity to find out how shitty AOL's service is.

Re:So...

[JeffTL]

Well, if you were going to get AOL anyway, it's a good deal. And if, after a year of AOL you are sick of it, you're free to do whatever you want...MSN, NetZero, even cable/DSL with no hardware changes except the addition of an Ethernet modem.

Re:So...

[shroudedmoon]

If you think that AOL service is worth nothing, then your math works, I suppose, but... IMO, it is worth nothing. In fact, they would have to pay me to use AOL. But yes, I suppose that the dozen or so people in the USA that don't have internet access now have an opportunity to find out how shitty AOL's service is.

Wow, I'm sure AOL will be heartbroken. ;-) Seriously, though, I don't think that I'd have to go very far out on a limb to say that the average (if there is such a thing) Slashdot reader is definitively NOT the target audience for this deal. Besides, I think you're VASTLY underestimating the number of households/people without Internet access, or a computer for the matter.

Re:So...

[mAineAc]

they are in a contract for 24.00 a month internet service. Aol is crap and makes computers run like crap. Now they are paying for a computer then paying an exorbitant price for internet that cost between 15 and 20 bucks everywhere else, less in some places. I Don't see how just adding the crappy software makes it a deal anywhere. You will save more in a year getting 15.00 a month internet than what they are saving on the crappy computer they are selling.

Re:So...

[laird]

Well, for people experienced with the internet, I agree that a cheap ISP is the best deal, because all you really need is TCP/IP routing and a mail server. But for someone who wants to have their hand held, AOL's not a bad start -- it's certainly The plain internet access ISP's have gotten better over the years, but it's still easier getting AOL working than installing and configuring PPP, web, email, etc., individually.

Personally, I'd go straight to broadband rather than dial, but that's 2x as much, and we're talking about people who don't want to spend that kind of money on the internet.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

not to mention that when all else fails you can usually find a local access number for AOL

Re:So...

[uptownguy]

Aol is crap and makes computers run like crap.

*shakes head* You guys are sooooo elite. You know why everyone wants to have a computer, right? It is obviously so they can have the fastest machine and the most elite monitor and, and, uh...

Yeah, I'm willing to guess that for millions of people, having a machine sit in their living room that they can turn on and click a button and be "connected" to someplace friendly -- with a buddy list and communities and a friendly voice TELLING them they have mail... this feels like what they want from the Internet. So it takes them an extra 10 seconds to boot up Microsoft Works. SO WHAT? They are happy. Show me the problem.

Re:So...

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

eh, for cost broadband is pretty cheap when you factor in a phone line and how much you pay for acces. I'm trying to get my parents to get a cable modem because it cost less then their current dial up setup. And they live in the middle of no where and can get a cable modem (granted thats probably more of a rare odity). But at the same time there is very limited dial up service there so they pay over 20 dollars a month for just that.

I currently pay 29 bucks a month for a cable modem. When i consider the cost of a phone line and access it would be silly to go dial up. But then you also need ot be in a area where this is offered. And as we all know internet access varies greatly.

But I think the bulk of people anymore could get broadband for similar price to dialup.

Re:So...

[laird]

Well, where I live broadband is $40-45 a month, which is (according to a survey I just read) the national average, while the cost or AOL is $24 a month, which gets you internet access and also the AOL stuff. So assuming that you're not paying for a phone line just for internet access (a few people also use telephone lines to talk to people) dial is still cheaper...

been there and done that

[Frisky070802]

This doesn't seem new or noteworthy. Such deals have been around for years. for intstance, googling appropriate terms took me to an article from 1999 about this sort of thing.

Also, the numbers for how much this computer is worth don't factor the right things in. Anyone who'd go for this deal needs some sort of ISP to begin with, and the $23.90/month may be higher than other ISPs, but does give the customer something of value beyond the PC. On the other hand, is that really a $699 computer?

Re:been there and done that

[dspeyer]

On the other hand, is that really a $699 computer?

I doubt it very much. They don't give full specs, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it has a 100MHz bus, 24X CD-ROM, and generally low-end components for everything not listed. You can get a comparable system from microtel for $330. (I'm figuring that a 1.6GHz Athlon is at least as good as a 1.7GHz Celeron.) Admittedly, that's without moniter or printer, but that still doesn't cover the difference. Of course, one year of dial-up internet counts for something too. It costs about $150.

So, no, this isn't a particularly great deal. It's not a massive rip-off, either, though (assuming you want a year of dial-up, and don't already have a moniter), so it might make sense for people who don't know how to put things together (even on a very simple scale).

Re:been there and done that

[00420]

On the other hand, is that really a $699 computer?

That's actually a pretty common thing in marketing. It doesn't matter what the price comes out to in the end; it just matters that it sounds good when the customer decides to buy it (which at that time they'll be thinking $299 not $699).

Of course, I'm speaking of the average customer. Not those of us who actually use math.

Re:been there and done that

[ncc74656]

I doubt it very much. They don't give full specs, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it has a 100MHz bus, 24X CD-ROM, and generally low-end components for everything not listed. You can get a comparable system from microtel for $330. (I'm figuring that a 1.6GHz Athlon is at least as good as a 1.7GHz Celeron.)

According to this AnandTech article on processors under $100, an Athlon XP 1600 (which actually runs somewhere near 1.4 GHz) would leave a 1.7-GHz Celeron (which will be a P4-derived product, not a P!!! derivative) so far behind that it's almost an unfair comparison. Hell, I'm typing this on an old Thunderbird-core 1.0-GHz Athlon that, between the DDR memory and AGP graphics (Radeon 7000...nothing too fancy), would probably still give that Celeron a run for the money. That a nearly three-year-old system could do that says something.

wha?

[wankledot]

"controling"?

How are they controling you? Do they prohibit you from visiting other sites or installing another OS/Apps? Just because they install some default image, that doesn't mean they're controling what you do with the system.

Re:wha?

[Micro$will]

Have you ever used AOL? Would you like to be stuck paying for AOL for a year even if you don't like it just to get a "new" PC? Sure, you can install Linux, but try to get support from AOL if something needs to be replaced under warrantee, and forget about even getting on to AOL with Linux.

Re:wha?

[donutello]

Have you ever used AOL? Would you like to be stuck paying for AOL for a year even if you don't like it just to get a "new" PC? Sure, you can install Linux, but try to get support from AOL if something needs to be replaced under warrantee, and forget about even getting on to AOL with Linux.

The terms of the deal are clear. It's your choice whether you want to take the deal or not. Sounds like you've already decided you don't want to - that's your prerogative. Someone else may decide it makes sense - that is their prerogative.

Re:wha?

[leerpm]

Somehow I do not think they are targetting active Linux users with these deal. Their target market is those people who are basically computer illiterate, but want to get on the web/email without the hassle of going down to their local Best Buy to buy a computer, and then sign up for internet access. This is similar to what a lot of mobile phone carriers do. They bundle a phone with a contract.

Re:wha?

[bluekanoodle]

This is also targeted at the large share of households who might not be able to afford to go down to Best Buy and plop down 400 bucks for a PC, but could probably swing a monthly payment of $24. Its exactly this market AOL is aiming for, those who can't afford to shell out the upfront cost of the computer. For these people, its either that or get a piece of crap computer at Rent-a-Center for $50 bucks a months. 400 dollars is a lot of money to alot of people.

Re:wha?

[RevAaron]

Umm, then you wouldn't buy this dealie. I'm not sure what the big deal is- if you're the type that enjoys AOL, then this isn't a bad deal. Sure, you could get a similar machine for $300, but without a printer or monitor. Printers you can get cheap, but a 17" monitor still isn't some $50 retail thing thrown in, like a really crappy scanner or printer.

If you want to use Linux without AOL, why would not get another machine? Why is this even being discussed? Just something to whine about?

Re:wha?

[TwistedGreen]

Yeah, I noticed that as well. It's yet another obvious case of the control that is exerted on Slashdot by its tinfoil hat manufacturer sponsors.

Re:wha?

[j-pimp]

I understand that credit is a complex economic concept, but can't they just live another 8 months without a computer. Perhaps its economic decisions like these that put people in the predicimate where $400 is alot of money, and its not AOLs job to care, but it still baffles my mmind.

Re:wha?

[frostman]

The phone comparison is dead on.

You don't usually get a free phone but you do get your phone much cheaper with a contract - in many cases the service provider actually loses money on the phone in order to get you as a customer.

Considering the bundle includes a monitor, a printer (ink-selling device) and a licensed 'doze, $300 is very cheap.

I think it would be completely reasonable if they tried to lock the system into AOL so you couldn't use another provider without, say, installing a new OS. That's exactly what the phone people do.

Re:wha?

[redheaded_stepchild]

Sounds like you've already decided you don't want to - that's your prerogative. Someone else may decide it makes sense - that is their prerogative.

While you are essentially correct, I find it my personal crusading duty to stop people from inflicting AOL on themselves and their equipment.
As a tech support geek, I often have to fix the issues created by AOL and their Borg-like use of a hard-drive. To be sure, it could be controlled by some informed use of the installers, but how many AOL users do you know that can do anything other than click the Next button?

AOL is internet access for the stupid and lazy. It takes all of ten minutes for an AOL user to learn how to use something else, and 10 seconds to show them why. Most of my clients agree with me: My machine, my control. If you let someone else control your box, it will do things you don't want it to.

I also love how AOL sells the features of other, long-established software as something new and exciting. Every time I see it on TV, I want a disclaimer at the bottom that says "If you think this is original, I've got a brand-new bestelling book for you: I'm calling it 'The Bible'."

AOL comes in number 2 on my list of big evil companies. Guess who's number 1?

Re:wha?

[cmj]

"AOL may be optimizing some of your computer settings to enhance your experience on AOL".

In addition if you look at the screen you can see some sort of application launcher for the apps AOL bundles. It appears that the normal XP start bar and icons are there as well, but the above quote from the details page clearls leaves them with the ability to change system settings which could easily include adding or removing software.

If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Chordonblue]

...maybe they could get the price down to $199, hmmm?

Don't flip out on me, it was just a thought... ;)

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Anonymous Coward]

AOL is a big company, why don't they just make thier own distro of Linux and slap in this computer???

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Chordonblue]

I think with them shipping this with StarOffice that ARE that much closer. Word is that they already have an Linux-based distro but have been sitting on it. You would think that with their fortunes failing, this might be a good time to try a new approach. With this $299 deal, I think only MS will make any real profit.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[KrispyKringle]

AOL doesn't work on Linux (not officially; there are a few projects I've seen to try to circumvent this--no idea if they work well or not). And as others pointed out, they are trying to appeal to the non-savvy. Just because the default user is root doesn't make Lindows easy to use.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe they don't want to be hreatened by those tea smoking bangers SCO... so are wating for the storm to blow over, or for MS to give them a preferential discount... AOL threatening MS to get better discounts... (AOL only have to threaten to have a Linux distro... like, er compiling the kernel and making it write ASCII art SCO pics...?) never? Well, maybe?

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[donutello]

Not quite. From the court depositions, and other stuff I've heard, I believe the OEM price for Windows is closer to $40 than $100.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[supabeast!]

More like $209- the OEM cost of Windows XP home is $90.

I am surprised that AOL doesn't push a discount Linux PC. That company has sunk billions of dollars into Linux, Open-Source software, a close relationship with Red hat, and yet, aside from their Linux backend (AOL runs thousands of Linux servers.), AOL isn't even *trying* to get anything out of that investment. Unless you count giving a Gecko browser to those few remaining Compuserve users, who were probably all just using IE and ignoring the special Compuserve software anyway.

Maybe that's how AOL works now, tho. It's just like the Time-Warner merger. Spend billions of dollars on what could create an incredible business, and then fuck it all up...

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[anthony_dipierro]

Because that's not their business. They already got rid of that other GPLed product of theirs, why in the world would they want to get involved with a new one? Especially a new one that will piss off Microsoft. They don't need to declare war on Microsoft. They're a media company, not an OS company.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[fermion]

They wouldn't even have to ship it with Lindows. An xBox can be had for $150, and the machine that AOL is giving out is not more sophisticated. Also take into consideration that the Montor and Printer probably does not affect the cost that much.

I think they selling this at a competitvie price so that people who might be concerned at the complexity of getting online will be confortable buying the system. The configuration is as it is so that no one will be concerned about the purchase. It is vanilla system that is ok but no great. I don't think they are selling it at a loss, and unless the sales are really bad, I doubt the are interested in moving below this price point.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they're technically not very competent and it would turn out disasterously.

(I am a software engineer for AOL. Oh the stories I could tell you!)

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[dmaxwell]

I am surprised that AOL doesn't push a discount Linux PC.....Maybe that's how AOL works now, tho. It's just like the Time-Warner merger. Spend billions of dollars on what could create an incredible business, and then fuck it all up.

Not too long ago, they made a deal with MS to base their browser around MSHTML and friends. They also cut the Mozilla team loose (in a highly classy way I must add). AOL is not going into the compete-with-MS business anymore than they have to. At worst, they'll cut AOL loose if they go too long without making a profit. TW are not dreamy idealists out to take down MS.

There are right ways and wrong ways to make money from Open Source. However valuable Mozilla is to us, it wasn't doing them any good. In their eyes, "trying to get something" out of that would be throwing good money after bad.

There is one thing I could plausibly see them trying. Use something like a Knoppix CD to "try out" AOL without installing anything on your PC. If you like it then you can get the "full" Windows version.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[anthony_dipierro]

Isn't Lindows almost as expensive as Windows anyway?

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[denks]

Then again, it might go up to $699

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Anonymous Coward]

Make it $259. Lindows costs $50.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[b!arg]

Yeah, and we all know MS has no media aspirations at all

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[DanMcS]

They've been working on it for years. There was work on a linux client for AOL back when I was at compuserve in, oh, 99-2000. The plan was to sell a computer that was basically a thin-client into AOL for people that don't want to deal with the complexity of a real PC, but just want email, web, chat, IM, that kind of thing.

Hence, they acquired netscape, and set about trying to free themselves from microsoft reliance. Put quite a bit of work into making sure the new netscape worked across many platforms. It was going to be the default browser in AOL clients. Work on the linux client was going, I knew of some people that tested it.

Problem is, they have a huge installed user base that uses Windows, which they still have to support, and then they'd be trying to switch people over to these linux-AOL boxes, which they would have to provide lots of support for. Too much complexity. They apparently realized this, so then a couple years ago they made a deal with MS that they'd keep using IE as their browser, and the linux thing never happened. That was after I left the company, I think, and they may still be sitting on some version of a linux client, but it's not happening soon, I'd wager. They probably cut a good deal with MS for OEM prices on windows anyway, so why not use it and let MS do the OS support instead of AOL?

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[t0ny]

If this shipped with Lindows instead... maybe they could get the price down to $199, hmmm?

Thats your holy war, not theirs.

Also, I would imagine the bulk of that cost is hardware related; its very unlikely an XP Home license is going to cost them $500. And finally, Im sure their support people might be somewhat competant with Windows; very unlikely anyone there (or anywhere) has even USED Lindows, much less supported it. So whatever money they saved would be more than offset by their support costs.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[anthony_dipierro]

What does MS having media aspirations have to do with anything?

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Glass of Water]

This might just be silly, but what if they bought the Classic or Finder OS from Apple. Great OS for simple applications, tons of code runs on it, IMO very stable and usable in its last incarnation 9.2, and it would be nice if somebody did something with the code.

Of course, this runs on different hardware (really just a different motherboard and cpu) that might not be so cheap. Then again, it runs really well on slower chips.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[geoffspear]

If Apple was going to allow someone to start making cheap Mac clones again, it probably wouldn't be with a dead OS that would be 5 years behind when AOL had it running stable on Intel hardware. And that ton of code that runs under it is pretty useless, since the people who own that code have stopped supporting it under OS 9, and they're not going to go through the effort of porting it to an OS no one in their right mind would ever want to use.

You're either a troll or an idiot.

Re:If this shipped with Lindows instead...

[Glass of Water]

Sheesh! Touchy, aren't you. Maybe you should just think about it a little more.

AOL Office Powered by Sun

[WuWarrior]

Sounds like it will probably come with StarOffice (or something like it).

Re:AOL Office Powered by Sun

[Chordonblue]

It IS StarOffice (with obligatory AOL logos). One step closer to an AOL-Linux release I think.

Re:AOL Office Powered by Sun

[BOFHelsinki]

Certainly it doesn't come bundled with a solar panel, if you were wondering ;-)

Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is a fabulous idea and hope many people take advantage of their generous offer.



Did I mention that I own AOL stock? Yeah, I really should've cashed out years ago.

Considering...

[ajiva]

Considering you can get a much better machine for much cheaper. Check out:

http://gotapex.com

You'll find BETTER Dell machines for ~$400 with 6 months of AOL included!

Re:Considering...

[sterno]

Yes, but for ~$400 you are only getting the computer itself. Here you are paying $299 for a computer and monitor.

It's not an amazing deal, and not really that different from some other things, but it'll be interesting to see what an AOL controlled PC does. I also wonder if the support costs associated with the computers will drive the ultimate cost of this beyond what AOL can handle.

Re:Considering...

[flynt]

http://gotapex.com

Uhm, I don't think so. Wait, "got apex", whew.

Re:Considering...

[Powercntrl]

I read that as goatsecx too... Sure sign of being on Slashdot too long.

Wonder how many moderators will mod the grandparent post down because they don't read carefully and think goatse.cx has started selling computers. Could you imagine, " - Microsoft Internet Explorer provided by goatse.cx"? The animated page access icon?

Eww.

Re:Considering...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I read it as "goat apex". I'm not sure if that is any better.

Re:Considering...

[echucker]

... not to mention an OS (yeah, we all know about free ones, but AOL users aren't the best candidate for that) and the AOL Office software.

Re:Considering...

[Grizzlysmit]

I read that as goatsecx too... Sure sign of being on Slashdot too long.

Wonder how many moderators will mod the grandparent post down because they don't read carefully and think goatse.cx has started selling computers. Could you imagine, " - Microsoft Internet Explorer provided by goatse.cx"? The animated page access icon?

yeah we've all seen to much of that guys rectum even those that never saw it :-D, saddly many of us saw it > 0, :'( yick ewwwwwww

Re:Considering...

[AKnightCowboy]

I read that as goatsecx too... Sure sign of being on Slashdot too long.

I really miss the days when you could put images links in your Slashdot comments. Slashdot was a lot more fun back then.

Yay

[ActionPlant]

For a lot of users out there, the only thing that will change is that they'll have the logo on the physical box. It's not like they don't already control systems their software is already installed on...

Damon,

Re:Yay

[corsec67]

not the people who would buy this. They will use the computer as it comes, and will not even consider changing the OS in fear of "breaking" it. And, they would never notice if slashdot.org was mapped to 127.0.0.1

Jelousy

[bpb213]

"With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."

Uh Oh, is that Steve Jobs I'm seeing in the distance? Looks like he's fuming...
Next Month: the iNet internet service, so Steve too can also claim to control everything from the hardware to the software to the internet.

(and yes, I own an apple, and hell no, I would never buy iNet ;) )

Re:Jelousy

[Carnildo]

Apple already failed once with an ISP (eWorld, I think).

Re:Jelousy

[NickV]

eWorld became a little service called America Online when it merged with the c64 service, Q-Link... See this link for some more info (I can't find any sites online with info.)

So yea, I wouldn't call eWorld a failure...

Re:Jelousy

[jpu8086]

Obviously Apple hadn't mastered the naming schemes back in 1993. Had it been named iWorld, it would most likely have been a bashingly successful venture.

More info: eWorld

Re:Jelousy

[ncc74656]

eWorld became a little service called America Online when it merged with the c64 service, Q-Link...

AOHell goes back much further than eWorld. I think you meant to refer to something called "AppleLink Personal Edition," which was available for both Apple IIs and Macs (if that gives you more of an idea how far back it goes).

Re:Jelousy

[Daniel Dvorkin]

No, that's not quite what happened. AppleLink was the service that eventually became AOL. E-World was a separate, later attempt at an Apple-branded online service; not least because AOL was already well-established by the time e-World was created, it sank like a rock. This was in the mid-Nineties. Not sure of the exact timeframe, but I know that when I bought my first Mac ca. 1995, it came with e-World preinstalled. I never used it, but it had a neat icon. ;)

Note that I said "online service," not ISP. E-World's mistake, IMO, and the mistake made by the other big players in the online service world at the time (Prodigy, Compuserve, GEnie) was in not taking the Internet seriously enough. They were all advertising themselves on the basis of proprietary content and services at a time when most people wanted to get on this thing they'd heard about called "the Web." AOL pushed (and still pushes) its proprietary content too, of course; but they positioned themselves as a value-added ISP, rather than a proprietary service with true Internet access as an afterthought, much faster than the others, and reaped the benefits.

Re:Jelousy

[Anonymous Coward]

(and yes, I own an apple, and hell no, I would never buy iNet ;) )

what if it had a shiny apple logo and brushed metal skin?

Re:Jelousy

[jrockway]

Actually, eWorld was too expensive IIRC. I remember reading all the documentation (I was only 8 or so back then :) and thinking? 10 cents an email? You're kidding me!

Or something like that. The expensiveness is stuck in my head; but when you're 8, everything's expensive. My 2 cents.

Re:Jelousy

[anagama]

Remember the Widows 3.0 alternative: Geoworks? From the very early '90s. It came with the chance to try AOL when they were beta testing if I recall right. Even then, I bailed early in favor of Delphi because AOL was so expensive. Delphi was all command line though - still, 20hrs for $20 seemed too good of a deal to pass up.

Re:Jelousy

[Luigi30]

Didn't eWorld grow out of the Atari Gamelink service?

Re:Jelousy

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't mind if email was 1 cent, if it would kill off most of the spammers ...

Windows XP eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

The price of this computer barely covers the Windows licensing fee. Unless Slashdot has been lying to me and Windows really is cheaper than Linux. Even a lindows box costs more than this.

Re:Windows XP eh?

[MerlynEmrys67]

To everyone that believes that large manufacturers pay $199 for a copy of Windows XP that they ship...

Uh no - it is actually somewhere in the $25 dollar range (plus the cost of any media that they ship along with it, and also first line tech support)

Re:Windows XP eh?

[Snorpus]

XP Home (which I'm sure this would be) is around $90 for a single copy at places like newegg.com.

I think my college's volume licensing agreement is around $25/CPU.

AOL is big enough that they probably make the H/W manufacturers (and Sun for StarOffice) take part of their revenue from the monthly fees, rather than up-front.

Let's face it, the typical AOL customer isn't aware of the alternatives.

Re:Windows XP eh?

[Avihson]

Any Microsoft title sold in my campus bookstore such as Office XP-Pro ($208. for students) can be had by staff and faculty for $10. Now I haven't investigated, but the bookstore may be selling at a slight loss to S&F and raping the students. Like that would be a first!

I just use open office - the laser printer is vendor neutral.

Re:Windows XP eh?

[LDoggg_]

The manufacturers will add alot more than their own cost to the final price.

Twenty five bucks on the manufacturer's Bill of Materials may not sound like much, but they are likely in business to make money.
Small changes in B.O.M. mean large changes in MSRP.

Re:Windows XP eh?

[pballsim]

It's actually $50. I should know I just read the release from Microsoft and... =o)

wow

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

i'd actually recommend this to my friends.
with the printer and monitor, it's a good deal.
just... have to reinstall windows for the dummies, or install linux for the extremely computer literate.

Re:wow

[bpb213]

Is it that great a deal when you are locked into a $288 service contract for dialup?

Re:wow

[gl4ss]

is it? i doubt the lexmark refills being free.

though with the aol subscription commitment for a year it's more of a partial payment deal, or hand fee+rent.

i should be sleeping.. maybe somebody will see if they can find the same specced computer for cheaper than what this deal is..

Re:wow

[mekkab]

actually, no. Someone else posted it first, but Got Apex has some FRESH deals...

Re:wow

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

they will probably want cable, still, $588 for that hardware isn't a *bad* deal. plus it has a warranty probably. hence, it's most likely a good deal.

i'm NOT including the dialup, people won't be stuck with a $288 contract, they will have a $588 computer. pay it all up front and cut them off. no problem.

Re:wow

[Clever Pun]

See, there's two phrases in the story that cause large amounts of hostility in me: "AOL" and "dial-up". I mean, okay, so it's cheaper to give 'em dial-up access than cable or dsl or whatever AOL's offering now. But honestly! who even uses dial-up anymore, except for, like, poor (money-wise) college TAs and public school teachers and the like? Then, even if they DID get the high-speed stuff, which they don't, they still have to use AOL!

Also, I just have to wonder - of the households that STILL aren't online, how many of them simply don't want to go online? I'd bet that it's probably more than the amount of people who can't afford (or don't want) a computer...

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

My kingdom for a (-1, Retarded) option - The Frustrated Mod

Re:wow

[ball-lightning]

But honestly! who even uses dial-up anymore, except for, like, poor (money-wise) college TAs and public school teachers and the like?

Actually, quite a lot of people still do. I've had broadband for about 8 months now, and many people I know still use dial-up. Hell, I even know people who still don't have any sort of internet connection at all. For light browsing, e-mail, and IMing, 56K is perfectly fine.

Re:wow

[DecoDragon]

who even uses dial-up anymore

I can name a few, and it's not by choice either. The joys of rural/small town living can include not having cablemodems or DSL as an option.

Re:wow

[Clever Pun]

well, i was mainly aiming that comment at people who use it by choice, but your point is duly noted. :)

Cannot connect to word processor, please try later

[Denyer]

Well, this might be exploitable by the tech-savvy... especially since I believe AOL has negotiated a branded version of StarOffice to round it out. Keep what you want, put up with the ISP solution for a while. Worth it for a year for many families, I suppose. Whether the retention rate will be sufficient, given AOL's service record (presumably software [i]isn't[/i] going to time out or require frequent net connectivity, though I wouldn't put it past them)... only time will tell.

$699 for that clunker?

[Anonymous Coward]

The math ( (12*23.90)+299 ) seems to suggest that you can get a $699 computer for $585.80 plus any finance charges.

More like More like $399

$699 will buy a P4 3.0GHz that's better in most other respects too

What year is whoever submitted that in?

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:$699 for that clunker?

[ModernGeek]

printer?

Re:$699 for that clunker?

[Jason1729]

I thought everyone here knew those freebie printers were worthless and just scams to get people to waste lots of money on ink that has the highest per page cost in the industry.

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:$699 for that clunker?

[darthxmark]

uhh.. what about the monitor and printer in ur price quote? ohhh and of course what about AOL Sun Office... can't forget about that bad boy..

What's next?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next? "The McPC" with an "I'm Lovin' It" login sound? Hahah

Re:What's next?

[slimey_limey]

Don't forget that they change their slogan like a snake changing its skin. Every couple months the login sound would auto-update to their newest marketing idea.

Selling your soul...

[Meneudo]

I guess selling your soul is cheaper and easier these days.

Re:Selling your soul...

[cbreaker]

What?

Since when does buying AoL for a year constitute selling your soul?

There must have been a release from the Vatican that I missed. Or maybe in the upcoming "Vatican III" which introduces new methods of selling souls, which will include buying AoL.

Re:Selling your soul...

[slimey_limey]

WWYS has some nice deals on those, in case you're in the market.

Interesting

[bigsexyjoe]

They give you the fine print in gif form just to make sure it's difficult for you to read the text. The resolution isn't really fine enough for the text to be legible at any magnification, but it appears that the finance rate is 23.9% or 25.9%

Re:Interesting

[bhtooefr]

23.90% - that's definitely a 3, and not a 5.

Re:Interesting

[taj]

Someone at AOL should be hung for placing the fine print in a gif. Not only is it illegable even after magnifying it in a graphics program, it discriminates against visually impaired people.

What do they think that agreement looks like in a braille reader? Oh right... AOL, think. My bad.

Re:Interesting

[Tim C]

I have pretty good (short range) eyesight, and I have trouble reading that. Surely it's against some anti-discrimination law or other? Anyone with poor eyesight would be unable to make that out, and if that's the only opportunity you have to read the terms before purchasing, it's at least immoral, if not illegal.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

AOL have already had to settle out of court when a class-action suit was brought against them for blind people. That GIF doesn't have an alt attribute.

$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[Numeric]

You really need to review this. I saw the story this AM (EST) and throughly reviewed the deal because I'd like to upgrade my mother's computer which is a currently a pc200mhz with 64mb of memory as a Xmas present.

Here's the fine print (beware the fine print is a image file):
http://www.aolcheckout.com/aol-pc/aol01b-l egal1.as p?vcid=a2&srccode=subp2b447688

"$299 Financed plus a one-year committment to AOL for 23.90"...did you read financed?

my take on the deal...

according to the fine print, you are issued a Tiger Gold Card with approve credit from Wells Fargo, furthermore, the regular APR is 21.9% (i think, the fine print is very small).

so now you have a credit card from a company with a really high interest rate! "Boom!" as Madden 2004 would say. That is the hook for AOL, they can make some money by establishing new customers for a credit card company.

Its seems like a nice deal on the front end.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[NetJunkie]

So pay it off the first month. BOOM! You get the PC for $299. You only get charged interest if you float the balance.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[RackinFrackin]

That's a good idea, but I'd bet that there is in the contract saying that the buyer will pay a certain fee if the loan is payed off before a certain time. This is a common practice for auto loans -- if the finance company isn't guaranteed that they will make a certain amount, the loan isn't worth their time.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[Uncle Gropey]

So... this is a deal for low-credit, non-computer-knowledgeable people. At least they will build some credit if they make the payments, as well as gain some knowledge of computers. I spent way more than that gaining both of those things.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[fermion]

It is even worse than that. In order to cancel you have to call to return the PC and call to cancel the AOL account. If you cancel the AOL account without returning the PC, you get charged like $325 dollars plus taxes plus all other fees all at once, which one can imagine could be close to $400. If you return the computer and don't cancel the AOL account within the promotional period, it seems that you still might be liable for the year.

Of course if you wait the 45 days, and isn't it interesting that is 45 and not 30 or 60, you have one month interest for $6, and probably double that buy the time they get it processed. No much, but it wil add up for AOL. Of course you can and ask for a one time credit, but, as we talked about earlier, how many people are going to do that for $10.

Not to mention that nowhere does it say what shipping and handling is, which isn't refunded. Can anyone say that the consmer ends up paying $100 no matter what?

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[evilviper]

Just because you can get around it, doesn't mean it isn't a scam.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[slimey_limey]

I enlarged the image with GIMP, and compared that digit to 9s and 7s in the same paragraph. It's 21.9 percent.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[Javit]

The problem with that is that your credit score is negatively affected by having a lot of accounts, so opening another one just to buy a computer isn't really worth it.

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[Anonymous Coward]

So pay it off the first month. BOOM! You get the PC for $299. You only get charged interest if you float the balance.

but who the hell will do that?

Re:$299 is financed at 21.7% APR

[Tim C]

I would.

This time last year, I bought my girlfriend a PC on a finance deal. It gave us a year's interest free credit period, if we paid it off in full during that year. If not, then back-dated interest charges of around 20% kicked in, as well as the usual monthly payments.

Damn right I paid that sucker off before the due date!

For that sort of amount ($299 or ~200GBP), where I could just about spring for it all at once, that sort of a deal would be good to spread the cost across a pay day. That is, buy the thing a little before you get paid, and only take half the hit from each pay packet.

Strategy

[pi eater]

Seems to me like AOL is trying to pursue a strategy (at least in regards to this latest offering) similar to Nintendo's...

Charge cheap for something the user needs to use the company's products, then hope that the customer stays on board and buys more products from the company.

Will this work? I doubt it.. IMO they will lose tons of cash.. But hey, the real beneficiaries of this are the customers, so I'm all for it.

webmaster shirts and more

Re:Strategy

[Naffer]

I'm not so sure though... At $99, Nintendo is still making a profit (small... probably) off their cube and you are in no way obligated to purchase any additional games. AOL's deal requires that the computer be financed over a 1 year period. $24 a month for dialup internet can be a pretty big turnoff.

So wait

[Sycraft-fu]

You are telling me that you want people who are, almost by definition, too stupid to get a real Internet connection to have a LINUX PC? Damn, just invite the crackers to go nuts directly why don't ya? :)

Seriously though, these are the kind fo people who would whine about Lindows since it's different. Doesn't matter how much the same it is, they'd whine and not use it.

I mean an AOL user here at work got her computer upgraded from 98 to 2k (new computer). From a user standpoint there is almost no difference. She was even used to loggin in since network shares required it. None the less she found about a million things to whine abou. One was that when you open explorer in 98 it goes to the C drive, in 2k it goes to your home directory. She bitched and moaned that this was confusing/difficult/took time/etc till we found a fix.

No man, you do NOT want these people on Linux, espically not one that is logged in as root by default.

Re:So wait

[Chordonblue]

I guess what I'm talking about are OPTIONS. No, Lindows won't be for everyone either. OTOH, maybe someone would like to have a computer cost $199 instead of $299 and be willing to learn.

And what's the big dealio about Lindows defaulting root for the primary user? So what? So does XP! This can now be changed in Lindows 4.0 just as easily as creating a user in XP. Problem solved.

Re:So wait

[rolocroz]

And what's the big dealio about Lindows defaulting root for the primary user? So what? So does XP! This can now be changed in Lindows 4.0 just as easily as creating a user in XP. Problem solved.

Remember who we're talking about here. These people aren't going to change a thing from the default settings. They don't care about security, and just want everything to work right. No, defaulting to root is a very bad idea.

Re:So wait

[Chordonblue]

So how will getting Windows XP improve this situation? I'm not being an ass, I'm serious. What's the alternative? Keep in mind, just because Lindows defaults to open root access doesn't mean AOL couldn't lock it all down as part of THEIR default image, right?

Re:So wait

[DA-MAN]

> I guess what I'm talking about are OPTIONS. No, Lindows won't be for everyone either. OTOH, maybe someone would like to have a computer cost $199 instead of $299 and be willing to learn.

It wouldn't be that cheap even without XP. Buying XP as an OEM entitles you to huge discounts, I am positive AOL isn't paying retail for XP. The Walmart PC's aren't even that cheap after Monitor/Printer and they have less ram and cpu speed.

> And what's the big dealio about Lindows defaulting root for the primary user? So what? So does XP! This can now be changed in Lindows 4.0 just as easily as creating a user in XP. Problem solved.

The big deal is that Lindows defaulting to root is worse than XP defaulting to Administrator. Windows "Administrator" is not the same as root on Linux. "System" on Windows is probably closer.

It doesn't take much, especially with all the underlying scriptable languages, to write a quick shell script to own computers. There have been bugs in Mozilla where you can execute stuff remotely, had there been a large installed base of Lindows I assure you that would be much worse of a problem than what went on with a lot of Microsoft Trojans. A user level DDoS would not be able to generate packets nearly as crazy as a root level DDoS.

In addition, being a regular user protects the user from themselves. Most people aren't capable of being an Administrator and the system should recognize that. What's wrong with using a wrapper that asks for the root password, which MUST be set during install, whenever you need root priveleges. It works for Mac OS X.

Re:So wait

[JK Master-Slave]

And what's the big dealio about Lindows defaulting root for the primary user?

The difference is that one has to install all sorts of third party tools and stuff (i.e. Interix and/or Cygwin) to make an XP machine as powerful and dangerous a box for a cracker to break into and use as an attack base. And people who install Interix and/or Cygwin on their XP box aren't the target demographic that Lindows is marketed at.

So Lindows is basically an OS that provides a powerfully dangerous base for crackers, and marketed and provideed to exactly the last kind of people who should not be bumbling around on the net with such a system.

Re:So wait

[JeffTL]

If edefaulting to root is a very bad idea, the last thing you want to do is hook these people up with Microsoft Windows. You'd want to put them on Mac OS X actually (OS X admin != actual root, you have to go to a terminal and sudo for that), but aside from the used market that astarts at middle end, not low. "Windows = easy to use" is a myth if anything is, as it "Windows = the best thing for newbies and idiots" -- short of a Mac, such people SHOULD be on something like Lindows, if only for reduced viral vulnerability.

Re:So wait

[rolocroz]

I don't think that Windows XP is any better. What I really think is that computers just shouldn't default to root. As someone else mentioned, Mac OS X is the one consumer OS that gets this right: root isn't even enabled by default, and sudo is the only way to act as root without mucking around with NetInfo. If Lindows didn't have that stupid security flaw, it would be a better choice for machines like AOL's.

Re:So wait

[kalidasa]

I mean an AOL user here at work got her computer upgraded from 98 to 2k (new computer). From a user standpoint there is almost no difference. She was even used to loggin in since network shares required it. None the less she found about a million things to whine abou. One was that when you open explorer in 98 it goes to the C drive, in 2k it goes to your home directory. She bitched and moaned that this was confusing/difficult/took time/etc till we found a fix.

Hemlock, I hope.

I've had to migrate too many users who treated "c:\" as their home directory. Someone started bitching to me about not going directly to c:\ when Explorer opened, I'd be deeply tempted to go BOFH and replace her computer in the middle of the night with an 80286 running DR. DOS and Windows 2.

Re:So wait

[Anonymous Coward]

uhhh what's to stop someone from doing 'sudo bash'?

Seems pretty easy to me....

Re:So wait

[qengho]

...an AOL user here at work got her computer upgraded from 98 to 2k...From a user standpoint there is almost no difference...when you open explorer in 98 it goes to the C drive, in 2k it goes to your home directory.

Hmm, that seems like a rather significant difference from the "user standpoint". You forget that most "users" are highly task-oriented, and any little glitch throws them off. 2K/XP is a vastly different experience for most folks. Mainly, it doesn't crash several times a day. WTF are they gonna do with all that free time they used to have while waiting for the computer to reboot?

Re:So wait

[anthony_dipierro]

As someone else mentioned, Mac OS X is the one consumer OS that gets this right: root isn't even enabled by default, and sudo is the only way to act as root without mucking around with NetInfo.

Yeah but once you break in you can easily enable root. My mom has OS X, and she forgot her password. I created a new user, gave it admin access, SUed to it, enabled root, changed the root password, SUed to root, and changed her password.

If Lindows didn't have that stupid security flaw, it would be a better choice for machines like AOL's.

As long as people can install unsigned applications, stupid people will get rooted, no doesn't matter what you do. Just pop up a dialog box asking for the root password.

Re:So wait

[Coneasfast]

One was that when you open explorer in 98 it goes to the C drive, in 2k it goes to your home directory. She bitched and moaned that this was confusing/difficult/took time/etc till we found a fix.

I hate to admit but i was peeved about it too, for those of you who don't know, just add "/e" to the explorer shortcut and that should do it..

btw, if i was her I would probably have bitched and moaned because i was using AOL ;)

Re:So wait

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is that one has to install all sorts of third party tools and stuff (i.e. Interix and/or Cygwin) to make an XP machine as powerful and dangerous a box for a cracker to break into and use as an attack base.

WTF? Windows has a TCP/IP stack, that's all you need to be powerful and dangerous.

Re:So wait

[Anonymous Coward]

"WTF? Windows has a TCP/IP stack, that's all you need to be powerful and dangerous."

classic, my man, classic. ;)

Re:So wait

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you can just change a user's password in the user control panel if you have admin rights. Just access their account details, and type in the new password, job done. It doesn't change their KeyChain password, but at least they can log in.

Re:So wait

[spacecowboy420]

This reminds me of something that became perfectly lucid to me today.

Noobs are difficult.

I had decided recently, for security reasons, to move a set of documents from one share, to a seperate share just for the group that uses the docs. Like an idiot, I changed the users login scripts in the middle of the day thinking it would be no big deal, they were expecting the change and knew it was coming that day. All they had to do is logout and log back in and the new mapped drive would be there. I was amazed by the number of times I had to explain that in order to log in, you must first log out. The users couldn't understand why, if they already logged in, why they had to log out, then log back in again.

Re:So wait

[operagost]

I woudln't have fixed it. What did she need to root around in C: for? She should have been saving her stuff in My Documents and/or on a network share. She has probably deleted system files before to "tidy up", I imagine.

Re:So wait

[danheskett]

OTOH, maybe someone would like to have a computer cost $199 instead of $299 and be willing to learn.

Um... I have negioted deals for XP in bulk before, and, it is not $100 more expensive than Lindows. Windows XP home in bulk does not cost $199 retail or $99 retail that you see in stores. If you buy 10,000 copies you can get it for about $42. I am sure Lindows is cheaper, but not enough to lower the price $100 per unit...

Re:So wait

[ncc74656]

I've had to migrate too many users who treated "c:\" as their home directory. Someone started bitching to me about not going directly to c:\ when Explorer opened, I'd be deeply tempted to go BOFH and replace her computer in the middle of the night with an 80286 running DR. DOS and Windows 2.

I think swapping it out for an Etch-a-Sketch would be better. You could even pass it off as one of "those new-fangled Tablet PCs."

Re:So wait

[Anonymous Coward]

OS X admin != actual root, you have to go to a terminal and sudo for that

I thought the most recent Remote Root Exploit would have taught you Mac Zealots that UID Zero is Root no matter WHAT Steve Jobs says.

Re:So wait

[pommiekiwifruit]

You could remap "c:\really stupid long pathname with spaces that confuses gnu programs\user name" to "i:" or something like that :-)

Re:So wait

[rizzo420]

so an administrator in winxp or 2k can't access some parts of the operating system? i think not. i use my win2k machine solely as administrator, makes it easier to do the things i need to do. there's no reason for me to login as a regular user. i can make any changes, make it as insecure as i want, and all this as administrator. i see no difference between this and root under any linux/unix box. the only real difference is MS defaults to hiding file extensions and hiding any hidden and system files. it also gives you a warning when you "explore" to the windows or winnt or windows\system or winnt\system directories. makes people afraid to do anything. most regular users don't know about regedit or any of the other commands that can make serious system changes. most of the stuff they can see is generally benign. if this stuff was hidden in linux or even if lindows and the other desktop linux distributions did something to "hide" or "mask" the stuff that shouldn't be touched, it would be generally harmless for someone to login as root. with debian, you can add the security patch source to the sources list for apt, automatically downloading and updating any software that's got security flaws (generally where most of my updates come from when i remember to update). the only thing that needs to be done is create something like this that automatically does this. the only thing it doesn't cover is third party software, but if you can minimize the amount of 3rd party software that gets installed by providing a good majority of software to the users through the distribution (like debian does), you pretty much keep any of these problems from happening. linux can be more secure than windows in that there are very few, if not zero, viruses that cause major problems. the operating system itself is far more secure. the general software that one would use is generally more secure.

your wrapper suggestion would definitely be much easier, but does osx remove root priviledges once they are no longer needed or does entering the password leave them enabled? that could be bad if that's the case. install something and you're root until you log off, which could allow you to do all sorts of damage.

Re:So wait

[SubtleNuance]

One was that when you open explorer in 98 it goes to the C drive, in 2k it goes to your home directory. She bitched and moaned that this was confusing/difficult/took time/etc till we found a fix.

Tell her to piss off. Ive always taken the tact, when users complain (luckily end-user support is not my job, but try explaining that to users....(while still trying to pleasant w/ coworkers)) that if the comptuer *works* then Im done.

If your user doesnt know how to *USE* their tool, maybe they are not qualified for the job? Does the company train people how to drive just because they provide a parking space? if she needs training, have the company pay for it... if she is totally clueless, she better bone up on her skills. Not knowing how to use the tools you provide for them is != the tool having problems.

either learn to use them or dont use them. not your responsibility. "Do the accountants in the office all come around and operate your calculator for you?" Is a favorite question.... in these situations. "Do the electricians in maint.dept. turn the lights on and off"?

Re:So wait

[geoffspear]

And sudo passwd root works just fine to enable the root account without touching NetInfo.

It's not really much more secure than having it enabled in the first place (assuming the root password was assigned by the user on the first startup, rather than set to some default value that most users would never change).

Re:So wait

[geoffspear]

Ever had a girlfriend?

Oh wait, I forgot... This is /. Obviously not. But if you ever manage to get yourself one, see how long that lasts when you treat her as a user.

Re:So wait

[DA-MAN]

> so an administrator in winxp or 2k can't access some parts of the operating system?

With Windows Administrator you are prevented from deleting files that are open or running, this is not a limitation of SYSTEM. A SYSTEM privelege level would be able to delete most everything.

> linux can be more secure than windows in that there are very few, if not zero, viruses that cause major problems. the operating system itself is far more secure.

That is because most Linux users have enough sense not to run as root, at worse the user would just lose their homedir and not their entire system.

> the general software that one would use is generally more secure.

More secure is not bulletproof. Even Mozilla has had scripting problems that could lead to execution of files from the net. I assure you that execution of 'rm -rf' as root would be much worse than most commands that you could do in windows. Hell they don't even have a deltree anymore.

> your wrapper suggestion would definitely be much easier, but does osx remove root priviledges once they are no longer needed or does entering the password leave them enabled?

OS X removes the privs once it is done. I believe this is the way to go in that most people do NOT need to be root 24/7.

> install something and you're root until you log off, which could allow you to do all sorts of damage.

Unless I make all user writable permissions mount as noexec, I wouldn't need to be root to install anything. I meant more along the lines of modifying major configuration changes.

Re:So wait

[JeffTL]

I never said it wasn't...and by no means am I a zealot in the sense you intend. What I said is that the admin accounts in OS X are not the root account; the actual root requires a sudo or a root exploit. I was talking of internal, not external, security.

Re:So wait

[buck_wild]

Naw, I'd switch out her operating system with Microsoft Bob.

Remember that? It's BUI consisted of a picture of a room, and you'd click on a filing cabinet to get files, etc. Sounds like just her speed.

Re:So wait

[Sycraft-fu]

No kidding.

So at a previous job I had to upgrade a domain controller. They were using a system that was just way too loaded for what they did with it. Also, they really needed a backup. Well this was in the NT 4 days. I though about trying to do it such that it would be the same name and IP as the old system so that no one would know the change, but after working with it I decided that it risked too much other trouble. So I'm working for a neurology department, this means I'm (literally) working for brain surgeons. Shouldn't be too much trouble for them to change from one name to another, right?

Wrong. I send ount a couple e-mails and visit everyone letting them know that on a certian date they'll need to change from accessing one name to another. I give them all detailed, printed, instructions. So the day comes. I'm up all night working on retarded problems to make the thing work, but finally I have it in the domain, all the files on it and it's all good. I remove the user permissions on the old server, go home and go to sleep.

Sure enough, I'm not gone even an hour when I get a call. It's not a secretary, not a grad student, not an intern, no it's a full out doctor of neurology that just couldn't seem to get the instructions. Had to walk him through the same thing the printed sheet told him.

It really is a noob thing, not an intelligence thing. These were all really smart people, smarter than me by a long shot. However, they all knew jack and shit about computers. Hence, stupid problems. Unfortunately I now work with people who are not only unknowledgable about computers but ALSO dumbasses. Ahh well.

locked in...

[sysopd]

I'm surprised this doesn't come with Phoenix's DRM'd BIOS (aka 'trusted computing') to prevent booting or installing other OS's. This way AOL could really lock you in, possibly even limiting what other dialup networking and broadband connections you can install. Maybe the next logical step?

Re:locked in...

[homer_ca]

I doubt it. As long as AOL gets paid their $24/month for a year and you don't bother AOL for tech support on the computer, I don't think they could care less what you do with the computer.

AOL is $$$ hungry

[t0qer]

Not really major super proof of their money hungryness, but Winamp5, which is created by nullsoft, who is owned by AOL time warner is going to have a "pro" version that will cost money.

Being that I sort of know the nullsoft crew, I know they probably didn't like having to do this.

I guess AOL had to make money on those cool CD tins they were shipping out last year.

Re:AOL is $$$ hungry

[Anonymous Coward]

Pro includes 3rd-party intellectual property which they (nullsoft) have to pay for per-copy.

Re:AOL is $$$ hungry

[Anonymous Coward]

Being that I sort of know the nullsoft crew, I know they probably didn't like having to do this.

Name dropin', eh? It sounds like you know them real well...

If you want people to think you are cool, you're not. You're just a prideful little geek that wants people to like them. Kinda sad when you look at it like that, isn't it?

Now go home to mommy, and tell her all about those Nullsoft people you know ALL about, well sort of, err probably....

Re:AOL is $$$ hungry

[t0qer]

Dear dickface anonymous coward. (god why am I even responding to this troll?)

Here is
a picture Christophe Thibult took of me and the other
kaillera moderator one day when we were
just hanging out.


This is another pic, this time i'm with the whole nullsoft crew at the CA
extreme games expo. (forgot who's playing with me, some nullsoft dev)

I would have found the post on the kaillera forums where Justin Frankel thanked
me personally for giving him and the crew a bunch of 8-bit atari stuff I have
collected over the years, but autotrimming has nuked that post.

Don't player hate, hate the game.

Re:AOL is $$$ hungry

[anthony_dipierro]

Being that I sort of know the nullsoft crew, I know they probably didn't like having to do this.

Umm. Winamp was shareware before AOL got a hold of it. Only after AOL bought Nullsoft did they offer it for free. But, you know the nullsoft crew, so you probably already know that.

Not bad for WebTV users

[Vandil X]

Hopefully the low price tag will convince people still using WebTV to actually purchase a personal computer.

I can see this as being killer for grandparents and others living on fixed incomes.

The system specs are decent, considering the target audience is probably not going to be encoding digital video, compiling code, or running photoshop.

The office suite is a nice touch. It sucks to get emailed a MS Office document and not being able to open them in anything but WordPad. I get so many tech support calls related to people not being able to open MS Office attachments. If the AOL office suite includes Excel and PowerPoint clones, all the better.

Re:Not bad for WebTV users

[yarbo]

it sounds to me like their office suite is a rebranded OpenOffice.org, so yes, it includes an Excel and a PowerPoint clone.

Re:Not bad for WebTV users

[bhtooefr]

Actually, it's a rebranded StarOffice, which is a rebranded and enhanced (aka much faster) closed source OpenOffice.org.

Re:Not bad for WebTV users

[raodin]

I thought StarOffice came first and they opened it up, while keeping their own closed source version?

Re:Not bad for WebTV users

[JCholewa]

After OpenOffice.org got mature enough, Sun switched to it as a codebase for StarOffice.

Re:Not bad for WebTV users

[bhtooefr]

No, no, no. Here's what happened:

Star Division (a company, not a division) develops StarOffice.
Sun buys StarOffice from Star Division.
After a while, Sun opens up StarOffice, creating OpenOffice.org.
StarOffice 6.0 and 7.0 are built on OOo.

Re:Not bad for WebTV users

[raodin]

Thanks, I (obviously) wasn't quite sure of the exact history. :)

AOL a woman?

[WankersRevenge]

With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse.

When did my girlfriend start working at AOL?

Re:AOL a woman?

[Anonymous Coward]

Girlfriend? Nice try, I think you meant your mom.

Re:AOL a woman?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, so a guy named WankersRevenge is posting on Slashdot about having a girlfriend? How's that work?

obvious...

locked in...

[sysopd]

I'm surprised this doesn't come with Phoenix's DRM'd BIOS (aka 'trusted computing') to prevent booting or installing other OS's. This way AOL could really lock you in, possibly even limiting what other dialup networking and broadband connections you can install.

Maybe the next logical step?

Sounds great!

[ljavelin]

I might get one of these for my Mom.

I don't feel like piecing a machine together for her, and she needs internet service anyhow... and she needs something EASY to use, not a crap service provider.

Seems like a good deal. It's either this or a cheap PC and something like MSN or AOL. This seems like the easiest (if not the cheapest) way to go.

Controls everything?

[Octagon Most]

"AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."??

Give me a break. AOL doesn't care what you do with the PC. Go ahead, wipe it clean and install your favorite alternative OS. All that matters is that you sign a one-year commitment to AOL's dial-up service at $23.90 per month. That $286.80 commitment subsidizes the cost of the computer. AOL has stated (maybe it's even in a linked article) that a common reason given for cancellations is loss of access to a computer. In a few tests they have offered such users a discounted PC rather than let them become former users. As a result of what they have learned they believe that offering a really cheap computer will attract/retain members. They need to do something as they have lost a couple million recently.

Sounds like a business decision to me. But, hey, maybe it's all just part of a vast conspiracy by a big corporation to control everything we do.

Re:Controls everything?

[rgmoore]

As a result of what they have learned they believe that offering a really cheap computer will attract/retain members.

I think that this is really the big point. ISPs have surprisingly good customer loyalty when you consider how little difference there is between one dialup service and another. I guess that a big part of it is just the hassle of switching email addresses. In any case, AOL knows that many of those people who sign up for one year of service will continue to get service from AOL for the forseeable future, bringing in a lot more revenue than the subsidy on the computer. It may be an especially good idea if Microsoft is succeeding in attracting newbies away from AOL by making it easy to sign up for MSN from Windows.

Re:Controls everything?

[mandalayx]

AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse.

Ya this is horrible, the same thing happened to me with my cell phone. Sprint gave it to me for 50 bucks after rebate but then you wouldn't believe what happened! I couldn't run ANY of my programs, just their propreitary stuff! And it forced me to connect only to their system, which is clearly a violation of my right to speak freely on the Verizon network when my service cuts out! Not only that, but it TRACKS WHAT I AM DOING WITH IT, logging my every call! Seriously, it's like spyware from hell--and no AdAware!

Re:Controls everything?

[sdibb]

AOL has stated (maybe it's even in a linked article) that a common reason given for cancellations is loss of access to a computer.

Have you ever tried to close an account with AOL before?

That's probably what everybody just said so that the AOL rep couldn't try to convince you for 15 minutes *not* to close the account.

Re:Controls everything?

[value_added]

No difference between dial-ups? Hardly.

My first dial-up account offered free in-home setup, multiple e-mail accounts with generous storage, spam filtering, virus checking, a top-notch newsfeed with 7+ day retention, and completely personal (first name basis) service which included a willingness to drive on over to your house to fix a problem if it couldn't be handled over the phone. Additionally, they were quite happy to let you come into their office for tours, visits or to perform large downloads (service packs, ISOs, etc.). Calls were always answered on the 2nd or 3rd ring. And if you called after business hours or on weekends, your call would be forwarded to their home where (incredibly) they'd take your call. All network problems (rare) and maintenance issues were fully described and posted on their website immediately and summarised in an e-mail you'd find in your in-box.

The price for all this was $19.95 per month --cheaper than all the majors.

And connecting via modem? About 20 seconds on the first go round and you were never kicked off during periods of inactivity, or chided in any way for high usage.

So, yes, there is a lot of difference. But you don't know what the difference is until you see for yourself, the same reason why AOL regularly loses customers.

Re:Controls everything?

[Anonymous Coward]

mod parent up, thats funny!

haha

[VAXGeek]

anyone remember the iOpener?

totally hacked

Re:haha

[techno-vampire]

Thanks a lot! When I did tech support for an ISP, I had to work with that PITA. If you had one of the earlier models, it was locked in to their ISP, and when it went belly-up, you had a boat-anchor. The later ones, at least, either were reconfigurable or could be upgraded by leaving them on-line most of the night. Even then, they were nothing but trouble, especially when you had to do something with one and the caller had only one phone-line. They'd keep trying and trying to connect before letting you into the config screens to get at whatever was wrong. I'd almost re-cycled all the neurons that had those memories, but YOU had to bring them back. Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhh!

Re:haha

[bhtooefr]

This is a Windows XP box with an AOL label on it, with AOL 9.0 Optimized and StarOffice on the image. The iOpener was a PC-like box with a proprietary QNX-based OS on a DoC, and happened to have an IDE connector.

Re:haha

[placeclicker]

You just linked to a free geocities site on Slashdot.

Math Error in Article Post

[EmagGeek]

You cannot consider the entire cost of AOL access to be "interest" in this interesting calculation. You must consider that you are receiving something of value in addition to just the computer. THe way to calculate the effective financing rate is to take the difference between the cost of AOL and the cost of another equivalent access service, say, Earthlink, which I believe is $15/mo or so...

So, (12*(23.90-15))+299 = $405.80...

Ok, so let's see what I can buy that system for.

I just purchased two small machines, Athlon 1900+, 256MB Ram, 40GB Hard disks, with integrated I/O and everything for $280 each delivered. A 17" monitor can be had for about $100 and a cheap-ass Lexmark printer is about $50. What's that come out to? $430? and it's a MUCH MUCH MUCH faster machine...

So the bottom line is that this deal is marginal at best, and with AOL's buying power, it's probably very profitable in the end. They can probably put that machine together for about $200-250.

Re:Math Error in Article Post

[bhtooefr]

My local computer store has 17"ers for $50 (I think used, though), and one of the Black Friday deals (I think CompUSA) was a $50 17" flat screen CRT.

Re:Math Error in Article Post

[zerocool^]

They can probably put that machine together for about $200-250.


$200-$250, for which they charge $299. OK, i'm alright with that. Keep in mind, they're buying in bulk and they still have to put the thing together, or pay someone else to. In your own figures you're assuming your time is worth nothing.

Also, you can't go with $200-250 vs. actual income of $408, because then profit is (408-250-(cost of 1 year internet access)). Internet access is not free, not even to AOL. They pay for bandwidth, they pay hosting fees to MAE-east, and, more costly, they pay tech support staff (i've called aol at 4am and gotten someone who actually knew what to do, too - granted this was 4 years ago).

So, no offense, mate, but a comptuer that's got "$200-250" worth of parts + assembly for $300 isn't really all that bad. Especially if it's closer to $250.

~Will

Re:Math Error in Article Post

[DraKKon]

Where did you get those machines?

Re:Math Error in Article Post

[EmagGeek]

Email me and I'll send you the info...

This sounds very familiar

[japorms]

Big Planet (a smaller internet service provider) did this very thing four years ago with the iPhone. The iPhone was selling at $399 at the time, and customers could get it for free if they committed to a three-year contract internet contract regardless if the iPhone stopped working. Most customers signed up for the unlimited access plan at $24.95/month. After three years, they ended paying $900. Bottom line: contracts such as these are great for making money, but they ultimately create a mass of upset customers.

( (12*23.90)+299 )

[swordboy]

You didn't need the extra set of parentheses - the math already assumes that.

Boy, I'm a geek...

Re:( (12*23.90)+299 )

[Anonymous Coward]

But it's always a good idea to wrap parens for the sake of clarity. Much like in programming, the idea is to make it as clear to anyone reading as possible.

finance charges???

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, if you have to finance $299 maybe you should go to the library and use a computer for free.

AOL?

[Anonymous Coward]

More like GayOL if you ask me.

Re:AOL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thuper! Thounds like a reathon to join the club! Right after I thign up for the Y. Ooooh!

More "Doom 3" capable than my current P.O.S.

[planetoid]

I'm a piss-poor college student, I'm a gamer, and my current computer is 1998-era (450mhz yay!). I'm ashamed to say this, but.... no. NO! Must... resist... :(

Re:More "Doom 3" capable than my current P.O.S.

[bhtooefr]

Build a cheapo box yourself, or if it's a K6-2, go to 550MHz ($40), if it's a P3 or Celery, go to 1.4GHz (Tualie Celery $35, adaptor $8.50-$20).

Hey, that reminds me! Aren't we all due..

[Chordonblue]

...for some news from SCOX anyway?

As quoted elsewhere:
"Gotta get me somma that SCOX!"

AOL's next plan...

[rice_burners_suck]

The next thing you know, instead of receiving those annoying coasters in the mail all the time, you'll start receiving free computers in the mail all the time. They'll work for 1045 hours for free, after which you either pay, or they blow up.

AOL's "1. Mail computers 2. ??? 3. Profit!!!" plan is as follows:

Savvy computer users will figure out that erasing the hard drive and installing their own OS removes the 1045 hour time limit, and removing the TNT from inside the computer case completely eliminates the possibility of the computer blowing up.

Then, in an RIAA-like effort, AOL will sue hundreds of thousands of individuals for illegally using their computers, which constitute valuable intellectual property. They will ignore the fact that by law, when they send something in the mail, it becomes the property of the recipient. It will take a long time for this to get to the courts, in order for the courts to throw it out, and in the meantime, many frightened teenagers will settle with AOL for amounts greatly exceeding the market value of the computers.

Clean profits for AOL.

Re:AOL's next plan...

[gmhowell]

Let's throw in some more /. memes:

What'll I do with all these junky AOL computers?
Hmm... Beowulf cluster...

Re:AOL's next plan...

[geekoid]

except they will use the DRM to prevent you from logging on to any other service. BAM! 23 bucks a month to use that computer to go online.

Insurance companies should do this!

[Aqua OS X]

Insurance companies should do this!

You could sign up for a 2 year policy with Geico, and get a '89 Mercury station wagon, with external wood paneling, for only $300 bucks!

Re:Insurance companies should do this!

[mandalayx]

Insurance companies should do this!

I'll now be presenting our new business strategy, called the "Crack Dealer" approach.

1. Get them Hooked
2. ???
3. :)

Re:Insurance companies should do this!

[karnal]

Hmmm. How many miles are on it? Does it have the rear-facing back seat?

Re:Insurance companies should do this!

[slothman32]

Oddly enough I have an 89 though not a Mercury. It still works fine. Of course Mercury station wagons in that year could be worse. But my car is perfect for someone who only drives for a couple hours drive time per week. In any case that is a cool idea for big business. If you are smart enough to get out before too late you might make money. And since most won't the company will too. Everybody wins, except those more souls who keep upgrading their car, OS, or whatever every year.

funny...

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, a few years ago I was thinking
"compuserve and the like are offering these great deals because no one will be on dialup anymore"
Now it seems that dialup is going to be aruond for a long time.

Re:funny...

[slimey_limey]

> Now it seems that dialup is going to be aruond for a long time.

It would help if they teamed up with archive.org to provide the Internet circa 1995. That might make them happy for having the pages load even faster than their friends' DSL lines.

my work is cut out for me

[peezer]

Geez, I've been trying to convince my parents to 1) drop AOL dial-up for cheaper cable broadband 2) upgrade their old computer. But since they seem to think that AOL is the ONLY way to surf the web and get email, they're gonna see this and think it's such a friggin' good deal...

This offer is just capitalizing on the prevalence of poor and ill-informed individuals. If AOL is successful, we'll have a rough estimate as to how many of these people there are. Don't get me wrong, more power to AOL--it's their right to market. But it's our right to go around educating people as to why this isn't a good deal.

But I guess posting on /. isn't gonna convince people like my parents...

Re:my work is cut out for me

[Indy1]

dont talk them out of it. Simply bill them standard consulting rates for all aol questions, plus virus and spyware removal, etc etc etc. That usually cures people of aolitis.

Misleading math...

[laird]

"The math ( (12*23.90)+299 ) seems to suggest that you can get a $699 computer for $585.80 plus any finance charges"

This math is only correct if you assume that there's no value in having AOL dial access. If you think that AOL access is worth the $23.90 a month that millions of people are already paying for it, you're getting a $699 computer for $585.80 plus any finance charges, plus agreeing to stay on AOL for a year.

This doesn't sound any more sleazy than cell phone companies giving you a heavily discounted cell phone in return for a commitment for longer service. If you don't want to make the commitment, don't sign the contract, and don't take the up front discount.

To me, this looks like a decent way for people who aren't online to get online very cheaply and learn whether they want to spend more for broadband, etc., later.

Re:Misleading math...

[penguinoid]

Someone else beat you to this post.

Also, the story is suggesting that
1) AOL is offering the computer at an outrageous price
2)???
3)Profit!

and wondering about 2)

Re:Misleading math...

[ElliotLee]

Of course there isn't any value to having AOL dial-up access. They'd have to pay me for me to waste time using that.

Business is Business

[pbug]

AOL needs to keep their name in the game this why they are doing this. Also this is the best time to do this. With the holiday season they will really rack up.

Re:Business is Business

[penguinoid]

Perhaps that is their plan -- come Christmas people will buy a computer to some poor victim who doesn't have one yet, and have them grow up on AOL. If people continue the service for longer than a year, they will get their profits.

But...

[Kirk Troll]

You could build your own $500 computer that would be most likely faster, and not contain all that shitty pre-installed AOL crapware that will slow you down further. And, you wouldn't be signed up for AOL service. (And who the hell wants that.)

Or, for the Maccies, you can get an eMac for $750 (Student Discount) which has a CD Burner, 40gb hard drive, and 1ghz processor. (Also doesn't contain gobs of pre-loaded poo.)

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you could, and I could, and many of the people we both know might be able to. However, Joe Sixpack can't. This deal is aimed squarely at two groups:

1. Current AOL users who might defect to another ISP.

2. Those without a computer and who want one cheap because they either can't afford more or just won't spend more.

AOL is bleeding subscribers at an alarming rate, so they figure they have to stem that loss. Plus, their parent company has lots of cash to throw at this venture. The problem for AOL is that, after a year, the user can walk, and many may yet leave, so this may be only a temporary solution.

Systemax, cheap but good.

[BrookHarty]

Systemax pc's are pretty good, been around awhile, basic solid machines. If you already use AOL, thats a nice system with monitor for 299. Wonder how much the ink cartridges are... The mobo seems to be very cheap, would be nice for more specs.

Doing a quick pricewatch search shows the pc is an average deal, and system max uses quality oem hardware, your choice.

But I'd rather go over to Outpost.com (frys) and get something like amd200+mb for 100 bux, get a nice case for 40 bux, some memory, hd and gfx card for about 350 for that price. Pick up a used 17 inch monitor for 20 bux at RePC.

There are good deals, but you have to look. I found used dual P2's for 250 bux with scsi drives. Awesome linux/bsd servers.

Re:Systemax, cheap but good.

[bhtooefr]

Usually those deals are for new subscribers only. Screws things up A LOT, doesn't it?

Re:Systemax, cheap but good.

[Anonymous Coward]

bux sux you fux, er...fuck!

...Or leave it the hell alone as it is

[Chordonblue]

You know, as much as it pains me to say this... Uh...

I've actually started to recommend AOL to people! :O OMFG - I SAID IT!

There it is. I'm sorry. But there is some reasoning here, if you all won't mod me down as a troll first.

The main reason has to do with AOL 9's control of spyware, parental rules for Internet usage, and yes, ease of use. For some users out there this is exactly what they need. AOL's numbers aren't near as high as they used to be due to user savvy, but they do still serve a purpose. Think of all your friends/relative's computers you've had to run AdAware or Spybot on recently and you have to agree...

Even on broadband! :O Oh Shit! I just said that too!!!

Bad Dobby! Bad BAD BAD!!! :)

Re:...Or leave it the hell alone as it is

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, know what your saying.
Could rant on here about how I got fedup with Mrs X and blah blah blah gave up and went for easy-PC stuf like AOL

HAHA, boy your customers are tooo free with the cash
Im talking 2GB HDD Cyrix 350MHz FAT16, Windows 95 nightmare! Run AOL 7 on that, I dare you!

ANS: Twat the security up to HIGH in IE, put windowsupdate into the trusted install Java2 Runtime from Sun, put ad-aware inthe startup folder on super smart KILL KILL, put a firewall block 135, keep 21,25,80 maybe 445 or is it 446 HEY BILL can we call them by the service name instead of these cryptic numbers

ANS:No, not until I say so you CLI luving freaks!

I remember the I-Opener

[Powercntrl]

It origially sold without a service agreement and you could pay for it with CASH, then walk out the door with it. The Xbox is like this, and so are those one-time-use digital cameras Ritz sells. If you're willing to pay full price for a Sprint cell phone, you can also walk out the store without any contract and use it as a doorstop or an overpriced electronic phonebook.

This computer, however, is being sold on the condition that you are entering into a contractual agreement to continue service for one year and clearly spells out the penalties ($23.90 billed for each remaning month of service plus a $40 breach-of-contract fee). If you bought the machine for $299 with the intention of not using the service, they have every right to hit you with those fees.

It's not an entirely horrible deal for newbies, if there are any of them left... But for everyone else, it's not the next great hack, it's just your average service agreement subsidized hardware.

But what does that MEAN?!?!

[mekkab]

Okay, so I sign up, I get a credit card with a balance of $299? No, wait, they want a 12 month paid commitment (p.s.- HERE is a link to the fine details...)
so thats a credit card with $585.80 balance on it?

So what happens if I pay it off in one shot? (I understand that I am in the minority. I have a card that gives me air miles- I put EVERYTHING on that card, and always pay off my monthly balance. Yes, I went to Hawai'i two years in a row.)

This is crap

[carcosa30]

This is a crappy deal just like everything else AOL has ever been or done.

New Dell PCs of roughly twice the power are less than twice the price, even if you don't take into account the fact of the intolerably fecal dialup service that AOL offers.

This is a loss-leader trying to recoup their market share.

It's a good thing that Time Warner is a media monopoly; otherwise they'd be losing customers to competing broadband companies. As it is, they don't have to worry about that. Yes, I know I exaggerate, but not by much. I'm so sick of media conglomerates that I could scream.

Re:This is crap

[carcosa30]

I don't understand how this is "flamebait." I hate AOL with the whitehot fury of a thousand suns and I'm not afraid to say so. This computer deal also strikes me as a BAD deal. This is how computer vendors (and dialup vendors) unload outdated service and rope in unclued customers into years of support contracts.

It borders on sharp business practices. Or maybe I'm just not seeing it.

Re:This is crap

[slimey_limey]

Well, hey, AOL is useful for something. My dad signed up for AOL years ago (~1994) and hated it. But now he gives me all the cool plastic CD cases that he gets in the mail (they never stop). They're free, and they don't fracture in my backpack like the (more expensive) "jewel cases" do. Also, I get to microwave the CDs or slide them around on the wood floor (label side up, for anyone willing to try). It works like air hockey, only without the table.

Oh yeah! TAxes, surcharges, and Fees!

[mekkab]

Oh yeah- Shipping, Handling, and Taxes...

this is starting to look like you get to pay approx $699 for a $699 computer, but get 12 months of AOL for free!

Re:Oh yeah! TAxes, surcharges, and Fees!

[Anonymous Coward]

ewww.. Not worth it.

Linux w/ AOL

[DA-MAN]

I have before, it's not too hard at all.

In fact there is a small tutorial on how to connect to AOL with Linux.

I wonder if this offer is valid with AOL Broadband, that way you could be on Broadband, and still have a cheap PC.

Re:Linux w/ AOL

[obiedxss]

I have before, it's not too hard at all

I disagree. I spent days trying to get peng to work last summer on my old thinkpad running suse 7.2. It majorly sucked. Besides the software being in French, it wouldn't progress beyond the second or third step in the initial configuration. memory is a little fuzzy on the program, but suffice to say that program/setup is reason enough to never, ever give up my [new] dsl, no matter how much it costs

Re:Linux w/ AOL

[RevAaron]

I wonder if this offer is valid with AOL Broadband, that way you could be on Broadband, and still have a cheap PC.

Yes and no. I imagine you're welcome to sign-on to AOL Broadband through another broadband service, just like any other AOL Member can. However, I doubt you can get this deal if you want to stick to one of those cheaper ($9/mo?) broadband accounts that don't allow you to use the dial-up service.

Does AOL provide broadband itself in some areas? Cable or DSL?

Re:Linux w/ AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Not as far as I know. You have to get your broadband separately from your AOL access, which to me sounds like completely defeating the point.

The broadband alone costs you $10-50+ more than AOL alone, then you're paying around $15 a month just for AIM/AOL email/all that "special AOL content". AOL email has a lot of issues, and having been forced to use it through high school, I'll say outright that it sucks horribly. AIM you can get for free - and the free AIM client has a lot more features than the one integrated into the AOL browser. All of AOL's special content is linked off a wide assortment of news sites, all of which are freely available anyway. And most of AOL's special content can be reached just by turning on that damn annoying "AIM Today" popup in the free AIM client.

All said, AOL Broadband is just a way of paying $15 a month to a company for something they're giving you for free, and also giving up some functions and content as a PENALTY for actually shelling up the cash.

Re:Linux w/ AOL

[Anonymous Coward]

"Does AOL provide broadband itself in some areas? Cable or DSL?"

It's an additional service once you get a cable/dsl connection ELSEWHERE...that's why, without this AOL PC, AOL broadband is stupid...you pay whatever you pay for high speed internet, and then plop out an additional fee for AOL's worthless services...please...

Re:Linux w/ AOL

[herulach]

Here in the UK AOL broadband can be either 512k ADSL or 600k cable depending on where you live. They have deals with the telcos to provide modems and the like. So basically you get an AOL branded version of the providers basic service. They also do a 1mb version, which is only for those who live in cabled areas. Pretty damn pricey though, Im getting 1mb cable for the same price as their 512k, and i still get the free modem and things. (NTL)

Re:Linux w/ AOL

[RevAaron]

Yes, I agree- AOL does suck royally. I used to use it quite a bit when I was a kid (under GEOS!) when fake generated CC#s worked for a month of free access and there weren't many other consumer-level options.

I hadn't used it for the longest time after that until a couple of years ago, when I was interning out of town. I figured I'd just use 3 free months-o-AOL CD/codes rather than buying net access for the summer. I couldn't even get through the first month of free access- it sucked that bad. I called to cancel and they offered me 3 more months which I turned down flatly. I honestly can't believe people pay $25/mo for that shit when they could get access through some local company for $10/mo.

Constant issues with flakiness, the app would tell me that my phone jack was disconnected. Having a lot of experience with dialup, I knew it wasn't that- and since there was only one phone (and no call waiting), I knew it wasn't someone else picking up the phone in the flat. Even worse, at least on Mac OS 9.x and under, AOL installs some proxing app that is always running in the background, presumably to catch TCP/IP requests and tunnel them through its service, as it's not just vanilla PPP. Buuut, this app stayed loaded and running at all times, even if I wasn't signed on, which really killed the machine's stability. No OS 9 is no champ in that regard, but when you have it set up and have a feel for what might fuck up your machine, it's as solid as NT (whatever that means!). This lil app managed to fuck everything up, especially if I was doing network stuff when not on-line; I was developing some networking code and webapp-ish stuff at the time but just making requests to localhost... It would hard freeze randomly when prior to installing AOL I hadn't experienced these issues.

After cancelling, I downloaded Altavista Free access, which was surprisingly nice. Yes, it put a little adbar on my screen, but nothing I couldn't deal with a virtual desktop app, though I usually left it in view- it was paying for my access, after all. The connection was faster, cleaner, and a lot more robust. A shame most/all of those free ad-based PPP things are gone, although I wouldn't have a need for them. :P

Of course, that doesn't meantion all of the other AOL annoyances- ads every time I signed on that I had to click through/close before the rest of the system could make TCP/IP requests (iCab, IRC, etc). And even though I thought I was careful about saying no about making informatioin public, I still got at least one request from from kid or kid pretending to be a 14-year old girl for cyber sex... I mean, "RevAaron01" doesn't sound all that female to me, but who knows.

Yeah, there one was a day when going to some AOL keyword got you content you couldn't get on the general web/net- but every keyword I tried out during the time I had AOL back then just opened up a regular AOL browser to a regular website, which looked and worked the same if I loaded it in any other web browser...

Dim bulbs think alike

[KaeloDest]

It is not surprising at all. When I did Apple T-Supp I would field about 10 maybe fifteen calls a week from AOL users who were using AOL as the only App on a G4 or whatnot. They couldn't open an attachment, couldn't print, couldn't unstuff a file that AOL stuffs couldn't find AOL's prefs in the toolbar. And when they wanted to write a letter would e-mail them selves...
Back on point Let AOL build the whole car they will have to support it and their T-S is so good they all deserve a long vacation in India, or Brazil, or whereva'

--
Whats right is what is left after everything else has gone wrong

already been done, long ago, in other news:

[valmont]

You can get dial-up Internet access with no AOL bullshit and a cool PC starting at only $20/month from PeoplePC while paying NOTHING down.

You can buy a PC for $200 at wal-mart.

... and that's just a few of many MANY options out there. Now why the fuck would you shell out $300 for an OK computer on-top of having to pay $24/month for internet service that'll suck phat donkey ass?

go AOL. tsk.

Re:already been done, long ago, in other news:

[JKConsult]

I have no idea whether or not PeoplePC does it, but the towers that eMachines sends (sent?) out have all unused slots covered by a strip of metal that has been welded onto the case. When I needed a POS PC to throw into the conference room for presentations at my old company, they offered up an eMachine that was sitting on a shelf somewhere. When I went to put in a network card, I realized that this was going to require some honest-to-goodness labor. But by god, I went and borrowed some needle-nose pliers from a service tech and pried that fscker right off in front of the owner of the company, all the while telling him that there's a reason that they sell those things so cheap. Being someone that was afraid of computers, the look on his face as I snapped that strip off with a maniacal scream of triumph was priceless.

Re:already been done, long ago, in other news:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes you can buy a $199 from Wal-Mart...walmart.COM that is...

Ever wonder why they don't sell these in stores?? Because the customers don't know jack, the people who work at Wal-Mart know less...the $199 PC is not a great option for morons...since morons will continue to be morons, they should just go ahead and get that AOL PC and use the worst BBS ever...YES I SAID IT: AOL IS A HORRIBLE BBS...

Re:already been done, long ago, in other news:

[zeet]

I just have to tell you, all sorts of cheap cases have snap-off slot covers. The fact is, almost nobody upgrades their computer. When I used to assemble boxes for a screwdriver shop (this is in 486 days) it was just what you did. They'd include a couple of slot covers, but since you didn't need them, you'd just make a pile for when you did need them. Take a flatblade screwdriver, punch out all the slots you knew you'd need for that build, and voila.

It's not just e-machines. If you're going to gripe about something in those machines, gripe about the power supplies. The cases are fine bottom-of-the-line stuff. Oh, and stop being so vindictive.

ASP code I see?

[cpopin]

Click on the More Details button and you see some .ASP code at the top of the page:

<% if uCase(Request.QueryString("srccode")) = "SUBP2B447688" then %> <% end if %&gt>

LOL!

A 699$ computer?

[Caeda]

Damn, that's a real rip off... 699$ for a 1.7ghz celeron? I only paid $619 for a 2.8Ghz Athlon XP with 120GB, 512 ram with Nvidia graphics and Dolby Digital 5.1 sound out... If your spending 699 for a 1.7ghz celeron you need to have your head examined. Unless its a dell. That should be about their normal amount of overcharging people.

It's not just a good idea. It's the law!

[OpenSourceOfAllEvil]

It's not just a good idea. It's frighteningly good if they can pull it off. Have you ever heard this response? I have.
"What OS do you have, Mac or Windows?"
"I think it's AOL."

Imagine hearing it a lot more.

Re:"Cheap-ass Lexmark"

[Kozz]

"Cheap" until you go to buy ink cartridges and realize you're being taken. I know this -- I've got a multifunction x83 whose cartridges can be nearly $40 apiece.

Go buy a halfway decent Canon instead. At least they permit competition of ink cartridge manufacturers, and hence the cartridge prices are about half that of Lexmark's.

Sounds familiar

[Chatmag]

From the "I'm trying to think, but nothing happens" department.

This reminds me of some MLM scam a few years ago, that featured a stripped down "Internet Appliance". They were sold by distributors, much like a MLM scam. I can't remember what they were called. Maybe the same people that had that went over to AOL.

AOL should get the contract for Iraq, they're still guillable over there.

Strategy-Console-ing the AOL'er

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually AOL could do a "console is a computer" deal with one of the console makers. Pop in a special AOL disc and BOOM you're on the internet. When you're not, you have a console to play with. Now what consumer wouldn't want that?

Re:Strategy-Console-ing the AOL'er

[SomeGuyFromCA]

>what consumer wouldn't want that?

Those of us who don't want to surf the 'net on a TV?

Re: explorer defaults to home directory

[42.5]

This is offtopic but I'm really curious how you changed the explorer default from the home directory to C:\. How did you do this?

No Windows XP? Subtract about $20.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because that's what they probably pay for the OEM license, ot the $100 you're trying to trick people into believing. So don't spread anymore FUD like this.

The lesson? OEM Windows preloaded != full retail price.

Just wait a year...

[disntrstd]

and you will probably start recieving them in the mail with the AOL cd right in the drive.

Re:George Carlin Dead?

[mniskin]

Whew! Had me worried there for a minute.

http://www.deadoraliveinfo.com/dead.nsf/cnames-n f/ Carlin+George

Do not fear AOL

[rcastro0]

With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."

That is funny. Down here in Brazil AOL is advertising on TV "New AOL: Now With No Installation CD Required". They had taken a serious beating trying to push forward their proprietary browser and now they have thrown the towel, and decided to become a more vanilla ISP, working with any regular browser. In case you are wondering: yes, that is desperate. They are not even a top three ISP in Brazil, after (how many? 3, 4?) years of throwing tons of cash in advertising and promotions.

It comes to prove IMHO that AOL's current positioning in the US market is a "path dependent" phenomenon, coming to be by a succession of (unlikely) historic events, and by no means natural. I do not fear AOL controling or dominating anything. It seems to me the only thing they are trying to do is to control their downhill slide.

One last thing. I thought you would be interested to know that AOL Brasil has a Linux download area, and that they are recommending Netscape 7.0 as a browser. I'm not sure, but I believe this has no parallel in AOL other markets.

Not You!

[Angram]

" You could build your own $500 computer that would be most likely faster..."

Don't be so naive. You are NOT the target consumer for this product - this is aimed at people who aren't tech-savvy. Anyone who can put together a computer will always be able to do a cheaper and better job on their own. People who cannot [read: most people] must buy a premade box, and this isn't really that terrible a deal for them. While AOL service isn't the right choice for most /. readers, it is appropriate for many other people. Parental Controls may not be your cup of tea, but for many parents they are essential. Additionally, while AOL isn't "cheap" at over 20 bucks a month, keep in mind that most broadband ISPs charge at least twice that.

No one expects a computer nerd or technophile of any kind to get this for themself, but for fixed-/low-income novices and parents, it's actually quite reasonable.

Oh, and preloaded junk can be uninstalled or the machine can be reformatted.

Re:Not You!

[Kirk Troll]

Oh, and preloaded junk can be uninstalled or the machine can be reformatted.

Wrong. Many machines now come with Ghost images on a CD rom, not just a vanilla disc of Windows XP. This "ghost" image contains all the pre-loaded software, intermingled with the OS in such foul ways as that it practically breaks the computer to remove it. Remove one program, and all the other ones whine until you reinstall it. The fact is, Dell, AOL, Gateway... they don't want you to uninstall that stuff. So they're going to make it as hard as possible to get rid of it.

I do see your point about building custom computers, and how Joe Sixpack isn't going to do that.

Fine Print

[Anonymous Coward]

Right click, save image, open in Gimp and hit + a couple times...

AOL Disclosures: ELIGIBILITY FOR $299 PC OFFER REQUIRES 12 MONTH COMMITMENT FOR AOL MEMBERSHIP AFTER 45 DAY TRIAL PERIOD AT $23.90 PER MONTH (TOTAL COMMITMENT OF $286.80). TO AVOID BEING CHARGED A MONTHLY FEE OR INCURRING CANCELLATION FEES, (1) CANCEL AOL SERVICE BEFORE 45 DAY TRIAL PERIOD ENDS AND (2) RETURN PC BEFORE TRIAL ENDS OR WITHIN 30 DAYS OF RECIEPT,WHICHEVER IS LONGER (the "Promotional Period"). If your AOL membership is cancelled or terminated for any reason after the expiration of the Promotional Period, but before the 12-month paid commitment expires, AOL may charge a one time fee equal to the number of months left on your commitment x $23.90, plus a $40 early cancellation fee, to your AOL billing method. Premium services carry surcharges, and communication surcharges may apply in certain areas, including in Alaska, even during the Promotional Period. Members using dial-up access may incur phone charges on their telephone bills, depending on their calling plan and location, even during the Promotional Period. AOL may be optimizing some of your computer settings to enhance your experience on AOL. Available to new members in the US, age 18 or older, credit card required.

PC Disclosures: Eligibility for $299 PC offer requires 12 month paid commitment for AOL membership. See details above. You will be charged $299, plus shipping, handeling, and taxes immediately upon shipment of the AOL Optimized PC. Your satisfaction with the AOL Optimixed PC is guaranteed during the Promotional Period. If you are not fully satisfied within this time period, return the PC for refund to payment method of $299 fee plus taxes. Shipping and handeling will not be refunded or reimbersed. You must call AOL seperately to cancel your AOL service, even if PC is returned during the Promotional Period.

Financing Disclosures: Minimum purchase amount to qualify for financing is $299. Excludes tax and delivery charges. The minimum monthly payment quoted above is based on the purchase of this item alone on a new account. Additional purchases may cause the minimum monthly payment to change. The actual minimum payment for the account will be 1/30th of the highest new balance of the account, or $25 whichever is greater. The Tiger Gold Card is issued with approved credit by Wells Fargo Financial National Bank. The regular APR is 21.9% as od October 1, 2003. The APR may vary.

Limited quantity available. Offer expires December 31, 2003 or while supplies last, whichever comes first.

Give them away!

[WayTooOldForThis]

Soon AOL will start mailing out "free" PCs instead of those obnoxious CDs.

Re:Give them away!

[bmantz65]

At least a PC would have more use than a garbage piece of CD

Re:Give them away!

[ejaw5]

That'd be sweet. Finally I can use my collection of re-formatted AOL floppy disks on an AOL computer! ...too bad they don't use CDRWs today.

break the MS office monopoly

[austad]

While I think AOL is for wusses... a lot of people sign up for it and use it. With them shipping Sun's office suite, there's a good chance this might put a dent in MS's Office monopoly. Businesses won't be buying these, so it will simply be consumers using something other than MS, but you have to start somewhere right?

Additionally, how does this work in CA? Remember a couple of years ago when MSN was offering free computers if you signed up for a year contract, but CA law let's you cancel the contract at any time so people were just getting free pc's? Wouldn't this be subject to the same CA law?

Uhh... more parts than that

[Anonymous Coward]

You also need to purchase a case with power supply (at least $20-$50), cabling (another $20), optical drives ($50 or so unless you're lucky), and also the OS. This comes with XP Home, about a $100 value off Ebay.

I mean, maybe you could get these parts cheaper by skimping or buying with the sales but come on, you're already over it now you're paying with your time.

Insurance companies should do this-Bundling health

[Anonymous Coward]

You laugh, but a justifiable argument can be made for such an arangement. A "safe" car[1] with "low cost" of repair[2] for about five years sounds about right.

[1] Less chance of a claim (your health insurance may want in on this).
[2] Less cost to them to have your car repaired.

Don't remember

[Sycraft-fu]

I'll go look and get back to you tomorrow.

Re:Don't remember

[great om]

try this: change the shortcut to explorer to "Explorer.exe c:\"

Cell phones

[dilby]

This is no different to cell phones.

Problem comes up later

[Crazen]

They keep charging you even after you try to kill the account. They got in trouble with this before but I've read from people who've been bitten by this lately.

It amazes me why anybody puts up with their crappy interface

Crappy machine

[Anonymous Coward]

A friend of mine just got one of those. It is the crappiest machine I've seen in a long time. My advise: If you want a cheap machine order your components from http://www.pricewatch.com or one of those sites and build your own. Just make sure you always pay by money order if you don't want to have your credit card number stolen...

No

[Anonymous Coward]

The price would drop somewhere between $10 (What Dell pays for Windows XP) and $70 (What your average OEM pays for XP)

Be careful what you wish for...

[anthony_dipierro]

unless you don't mind playing tech support for the next few years of your life.

One very interesting thing about this

[MadAnthony02]

I visited the website and noticed it looked oddly familiar. Did a whois on it, and it showed up as being registered to online computer merchant tigerdirect.com . It's interesting that TigerDirect isn't mentioned anywhere on the page, nor do they mention it on their main page.

Seems like it's almost more that Tigerdirect wants to sell more machines than AOL trying to get more users.

299pcdeal.com

Domain name: 299pcdeal.com

Registrant Contact:
tigerdirect.com
Domain Admin (lonny.paul@tigerdirect.com)
-
Fax: none
7795 W Flagler Street
Miami, FL 33144
USA

Administrative Contact:
tigerdirect.com
Domain Admin (lonny.paul@tigerdirect.com)
-
Fax: none
7795 W Flagler Street
Miami, FL 33144
USA

Technical Contact:
tigerdirect.com
Domain Admin (lonny.paul@tigerdirect.com)
-
Fax: none
7795 W Flagler Street
Miami, FL 33144
USA

Billing Contact:
tigerdirect.com
Domain Admin (lonny.paul@tigerdirect.com)
-
Fax: none
7795 W Flagler Street
Miami, FL 33144
USA

Status: active

Name Servers:
ns1.domain19.net
ns2.domain19.net

Creation date: 11 Sep 2003 20:56:47
Expiration date: 11 Sep 2004 20:56:47

Re:One very interesting thing about this

[BaldingByMicrosoft]

...which ties in nicely with the previous mention of the Tiger Gold Card
that is used to finance the PC.

Re:One very interesting thing about this

[hankwang]

Are you trying to get these people spammed by providing their e-mail address publicly?

Re: explorer defaults to home directory

[Torham]

make a shortcut like so:

%SystemRoot%\explorer.exe c:\

Umm, bullshit?

[ProtonMotiveForce]

A $699 computer my ass. You can get a better equipped machine from e.g. Dell for around $500, $600 tops.

Who is claiming the $699 pricetag? Is that like when some TV ad claims you're getting 8 trillion dollars worth (as determined by seller) of stuff for only $19.99?

APR is 21.9%

[trystanu]

Dude! you got AOLed!

AOL makes you stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a small local ISP. We run into so many customers that want high speed but are so afraid of leaving AOL. Great for AOL, bad for the Internet as a whole. These people are convinced that AOL "is" the Internet. Now they charge like $15 a month for AOL for broadband when it was only $8 or so a couple months back. Why? Because the users are paying the money hand over fist. Really all the AOL for broadband does is let you keep your email address. Big whoop. You can use an instant messanger on any connection.

Sorry for my ranting. I'm sure all the /.ers know all of this already.

Re:"Cheap-ass Lexmark"

[BroncoInCalifornia]

These printer outfits have a similar business model to AOL. Sell the hardware at a slight loss but make it up in the subscription or the ink.

Re: Important Point

[Anonymous Coward]

You're still buying something that has an AOL sticker on it. Even if you remove any trace of AOL...it was still on there. Any money given to AOL is money handed directly to Satan. AOL users are the most inane users.

HOWEVER, the more big players jump on the open source bandwagon, the smaller the chance SCO has at doing anything.

Redmond: Defender of the Free World!

[Cheesewhiz]

"With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."

Thank GOD for Microsoft...defender of our freedom to choose! Uhhm...wait...

I'll tell you that.

[twitter]

You are telling me that you want people who are, almost by definition, too stupid to get a real Internet connection to have a LINUX PC? Damn, just invite the crackers to go nuts directly why don't ya? :)

Why not? It's got to be better than leaving them with XP. You can already get $200 Lindows computers at Walmart. Add a $10/month ISP and a little TLC and the user has the same thing AOL delivers for $320, less the history of bad cracks XP has.

Seriously though, these are the kind fo people who would whine about Lindows since it's different. Doesn't matter how much the same it is, they'd whine and not use it. ... No man, you do NOT want these people on Linux, espically not one that is logged in as root by default.

Quit being such a snot. What I want for my clients is what my clients want. When they get tired of having their computers rooted and wrecked, I'm happy to tell them about free software, show them a Knoppix CD and let them make up their own minds. Microsoft makes the worst software on the market, bar none.

Re:I'll tell you that.

[Anonymous Coward]

less the history of bad cracks XP has [...] When they get tired of having their computers rooted and wrecked

http://www.debian.org/News/2003/20031121
http://ftp.gnu.org/MISSING-FILES.README
http://lists.netsys.com/pipermail/full-disclosure/ 2003-December/014440.html
http://savannah.gnu.org/statement.html

You were saying?

Re:Insurance companies should do this-Bundling hea

[gordguide]

Because Insurance companies are all about safety, they have all the data, and they have the deep pockets, this would be a disaster.

A lawsuit would come the minute somebody got hurt in or by that car.

Ford can sell you an unsafe car. It's simple product liabilty.

An insurance company would have to justify, in court, that their data shows that the vehicle they gave you is not just safe, but the safest. I can see phrases like "knew or should have known" figuring prominently in court claims.

If they did give you the safest car, then the next option would be to sue based on how unsafe the "safe" car was to the other (injured) motorist.

And so on. Believe me, the insurance industry knows every tort trick in the book, and they're wise enough to know which ones will be used against them.

AOL, on the other hand, has a busines model based on fleecing the gullible (just to get back on topic).

Buy a used eMac and a $10 ISP, no brainer

[Anonymous Coward]

For the novice I can't tell you how easy it is to set them up with a eMac and just teach them how the GUI works. Once they know how to get online, they train themselves.

I had one buying stuff on eBay within a few days. They feel so proud of themselves.

Then round two is showing them how to open applications and save files, next thing I know I'm getting email attachments from them.

I think I only average about 20 hours per person to make them computer literate.

No viruses, no forced updates, no annoying pop-ups, nothing to scare them away from using a computer.

Then when they get up to speed, I can tell them about the horrible Windows side of things.

Too bad

[llzackll]

Too bad this computer does not meet the requirements to run the new AOL 9.0..

Control

[deminisma]

"With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."

What exactly is your point?
So do Microsoft and MSN, to an even further degree. This is hardly anything new, it is not like we're not one step closer to 1984 as a result.

I used to work for TD

[Anonymous Coward]

Do not, i repeat, do NOT buy from these folks. I remember they had a deal where you could win $98K for sending in a postcard. The result? an entire room at TD HQ filled with entries, but dammit if they never got around to awarding the prize. Shitty computers (SystemMax is a CA company they subcontract to) for cut-rate prices and no support. Oh -- but they will GLADLY sign you up for a creditacard and put your purchases on it at 26+%.

You have been warned. The Firoentino Bros. are slimy, putrid, sacks of shit.

AOL's next step...

[Dracos]

...is to ship everyone a new PC in the mail twice a week.

Finally, junk mail that would be useful.

Did we collectively forget Pricewatch?

[mccabem]

"...is that really a $699 computer?"

By the vendors' reckoning on Pricewatch, that PC is worth about $200 retail.

The 17" monitor goes for $83 retail.

The printer is probably worth less than $20.


So, if getting a [$200+$83+$20=] $303 PC for about $600 sounds like a good deal, then AOL is your savior! (!!)

Sadly, AOL is going after those least-informed of consumers with this deal, so they'll probably find a fair number of takers.

For those who don't consider AOL worthless, let's consider the cost of ISP service on top. A quick query here tells me that it's easy to get dial up for $8/month or less.

So....[$303+($8*12mths)=] $399 worth of "internet experience" for $699.

Re:Did we collectively forget Pricewatch?

[Frisky070802]

So....[$303+($8*12mths)=] $399 worth of "internet experience" for $699.

I believe you misread me and/or the original post. The post said AOL claimed the computer was worth $699, and I was agreeing with what you (and many others) eventually said, that this was overrated.

You are saying the computer and ISP are worth $399 [nice research -- mod parent up :)]; the original post claimed it would cost $585.80 -- more than $399 but less than $699.

Perhaps my response is a nit, as we're in complete agreement that what they make out to be a nice deal is anything but that. I was only saying that one can't completely discount the value of the ISP. And while I haven't used AOL myself in a decade, I do imagine there's some added benefits (spam filters and such) that might not be quite so good at the $8-per-month ISP.

Or maybe not.

Net Present Value of money...

[imsirovic5]

If you discount 23.90 a month to todays money (assuming there is 0.33% or (0.0033) monthly inflation, Net Present Value of that would equal to about 280.74 + 299 = $579.74 total cost in real money if you were to buy the computer today....

Another catch?

[ro_coyote]

And like some "discounted" cell phones or computers (like from eMachines), what are the chances that this PC will be watered down as well, like crippling its upgradability? (ex. a drive rack with space for a single hard drive, 1-2 open PCI slots, low memory capacity for RAM, etc.)

If all you're looking for though is a simple computer (monitor and color printer included) for surfing the Internet, word processing, or any other uncomplicated tasks, then it might be something you can live with for quite some time.

Re:Another catch?

[laird]

"And like some "discounted" cell phones or computers (like from eMachines), what are the chances that this PC will be watered down as well, like crippling its upgradability? (ex. a drive rack with space for a single hard drive, 1-2 open PCI slots, low memory capacity for RAM, etc.)"

Well, given that there's a cost to providing AOL service, the $24 a month isn't 100% an offset to a possible loss on the PC, so the PC is probably pretty close to really being a $299 PC. I went to the Systemax web site (http://www.systemax.com, which linked into www.globalcomputer.com/pcconfig/pcconfigland1.jsp) and configured it to match the AOL offer, and it came out to $443.95. There's a nice picture of the Systemex system guts (NB: AOL might not be using this model, but it's what it looks like Systemex sells otherwise) at http://www.globalcomputer.com/media/html/config_de tail_view/ven_series_view.html?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_ id=4014945&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=7401281&ASSORTMENT% 3C%3East_id=593&bmUID=1070638433313. It looks like six PCI slots, four 3.5" bays, two 5.25" bays, and an AGP video slot. Judging by AOL's photo's, the PC has a floppy drive, though one's not listed in the system spec's. It also looks like AOL adds some software (e.g. AOL Office).

So it's not a FANTASTIC computer, but not pathetic either. For $299 (plus interest if you don't pay it off right away) it's not bad...

Re:George Carlin Dead?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure your sources are 100% accurate

Elvis

You know what's really depressing?

[Anonymous Coward]

That computer's better than mine. And mine was over $2000 when I bought it. Maybe it's time to upgrade...

Classic AOL accounting

[dankdirk77]

Purchase give something away as a promotion, and then make the recipient agree to give some of its worth back in AOL subscription revenue (or ad revenue for that matter).

It's a scheme to increase the amount of "cash coming in" to the company, even though more cash is going out to make this tiny amount come back in... a scheme to make this worthless craphole of a company seem viable to its shareholders.

I'll bet 10 to 1 that if it catches on, AOL will start using it as a platform for spyware.

You've got owned!

Re:Classic AOL accounting

[ElliotLee]

It's ridiculous that AOL costs money and still has ad revenue. For other services, you pay for an ad-free version. Here, you pay to see ads.

Pure Desperation

[Jubii]

...one has to wonder whether AOL is desperate for new customers and resorting to bribery, or just progressing to the next step of branding

Seems the me the obvious answer to that question is that AOL is indeed desperate. Their subscription base has been continually dropping, and with more homes moving to broadband it seems the trend will continue. I think it's the natural progression of internet users who, as they become more proficient with PCs, realize they do not need AOL to hold their hand while online. Plus you've got a generation of kids growing up with computers, educated on high speed networks, that know what they can do when they're not limited to that dialup modem. All in all, people don't "need" AOL like they did 5 years ago, and probably never will again. The time of AOL is over.

Ahem... PeoplePC does this

[Stonent1]

If you already have a monitor and are looking for a great basic system, this Bundle is right for you. With a 2.4GHz Intel Celeron Processor, 128MB of RAM and a 40GB hard drive, 'Starting Point' is ideal for students and for families who want to get online and get going! With prices as low as $19.95 per month*** including 4 years of Internet access, it's a great deal. Extend your warranty to a full 3 years for only $89 by adding Warranty Upgrade for 'Starting Point' to your cart!

This isn't all that new...

cost?

[Lord_Dweomer]

"Setting aside the question of whether this is a good deal or not, one has to wonder whether AOL is desperate for new customers and resorting to bribery, or just progressing to the next step of branding."

Actually, now I'm starting to wonder how cheap an internet connection IS for AOL. If there are plenty of ISPs out there selling service for $9.99 a month, it makes you wonder what AOL's profit margin is on that.

Re:cost?

[micq]

Actually, now I'm starting to wonder how cheap an internet connection IS for AOL. If there are plenty of ISPs out there selling service for $9.99 a month, it makes you wonder what AOL's profit margin is on that.

The margins aren't too high, giving that they hire all those useless support people to snub their customers calls off...

Lets all stop bashing AOL....

[LnxAddct]

Ok, first of all I know many small firms that use AOL (although it is usually AOL Broadband), second of all AOL does a lot of good for the net. AOL scans every email for viruses and doesn't let any through that has one, but rather they notify the sender, they also have great spam filters. Its very user friendly, and their DSL uses PPPoE so its easy to connect to through a router and then the client machines can jsut pop up AOL and connect throguh the LAN connection which is free (yes it is, i've done it on computers, and yes more then one person from the same acocunt can be using aol at the same time). It helps stop the spread of email worms, does excellent spam filtering, and gives the user every means of modern communication that he/she may need, at the tips of their fingers. Yes its not the most slashdotty type service where people use slackware simply becuase its hard to set up (not trying to start a war here, but thats what it sometimes seems like, where as debian, or gentoo in my opinion are better and easier to set up) AOL is no worse then MSN, except that AOL tries to do some good on the net and are very innovative. BTW, all kinds of music and media are available on AOL too at no cost. It realy is pretty nice and impressive, most of my family uses it. I dont use it, but most users love it. Oh yea AOL also are the nice guys that opened up the TOC protocol after it was the most popular protocol, unlike MSN who forced their protocol on users to make it one of the most popular then locked out everyone else. AOL also supports open source as is seen by the AOL Server and the fact that all(or most) of their servers run Linux. And if you IM ZolaOnAOL (that is AOL's chat bot, it was made by AOL and it isnt jsut some hackers bot) and ask her, "What is the best operating system in the world?" , She'll promptly answer that Linux is. Why are you guys so against a corporation that supports the Open Source movement (true they dont have a linux client, but thats because of the lack of market, it wouldnt really help anything if they did, through the other things that they are doing though, it is helping us) They hate MSN jsut as much as anyone else. We need to support corporations that support us and open protocols/software. Everyone needs to open their eyes. Just my 2 cents.

Re:Lets all stop bashing AOL....

[scrytch]

> AOL scans every email for viruses and doesn't let any through that has one, but rather they notify the sender

Two words: bounce spam. Let's annoy, hm, how about you.

MAIL FROM: <sgk25@nospamherererer.org>
RCPT TO: <whocares@aol.com>
DATA
...paste virus here...
.

Or would you like to show me a virus that actually takes care to insert the proper sender? Anyway, AOL is converting its mail structure to stop bouncing mail for precisely these reasons.

Re:Lets all stop bashing AOL....

[wawannem]

Soooooooooooo....

Today we like AOL?

/me checking lunar cycle, shift day of month by 3 bits....

Yes, I guess we do, thanks for clearing that up.

Re: Applies also to MS

[ElliotLee]

To everyone that believes that Microsoft pays $25 for every copy of Windows XP that they ship... Uh no - it is actually somewhere in the 15 cents range (plus they get the benefit of having a monopoly and including advertising such as Internet Explorer). And that's what it's worth.

Old news

[rock_climbing_guy]

article here

There may be a way...

[Any Web Loco]

A lot of loans only require penlaties if you pay the loan out in full. So what you do is you pay it *almost* all out - leave a month or two's repayments in there. You thus avoid the pay-out tax, and alhtough you'll pay some interest, it'll only be a month or two's worth.

It worked for my home loan & saved me many 10s of thousands of dollars.

Satellite companies do this

[cRueLio]

This reminds me of Dish Network or DirectTV, who sell you pretty expensive equipment for literally nothing, and then tie you up to their service for a year or two. If it works for them, why shouldn't it work for AOL. Keep in mind that this deal isn't targetted towards the type of people that read Slashdot...

Re:Insurance companies should do this-Bundling hea

[Aqua OS X]

True. And if AOL did the same thing, then they might have something good on their hands.

Perhaps if AOL would by me an iMac or an eMac, then I'd pay for AOL for a couple years.

More like $637...

[raehl]

Once you add in the monitor and the printer.

Nice try though.

the other money in this equation

[SethJohnson]

While evaluating this business model, please consider that AOL might be making a fair piece of change from adware, bookmarks, desktop icons, etc. that it preloads on these computers. I think it's cool they're spreading StarOffice. Way to go, AOL.

AOL's marketing budget

[Anonymous Coward]

This is right in line with their per-user marketing budget. I remember talking to one of their marketing drones back in my .com days and he babbled on and on that the rule of thumb there is to spend $115 marketing dollars for each user they get. I'd actually be surprised if the $699 computer for $585.80 (~$115 difference) was a stupid coincidence and not a key point on a white board somewhere.

UF predicts?

[The Spanish Ninja]

Or maybe AOL has tried it before? I'm not sure, but either way, here's a little better idea of what that PC will really be like...
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20020929& mode=classic

AOL forgot to mention something

[xQuarkDS9x]

AOL forgot to mention that the parts used in these computers are likely the cheapest and most poorly made junk from Taiwan that, when put together into a cheap PC such as this, will be lucky enough to last 3 months, 6 months means it's blessed, and if it lasts more then a year then consider yourself VERY LUCKY.

They're trusting customer laziness, duh.

[mbauser2]

I used to work in a camera store that sold cell phones, too. (Don't ask me why a camera store would bother will cell phones, because I'm still not sure.) One thing I learned: mobile phones still cost the phone companies more than the 99 dollars they sell them for -- the companies are swallowing the cost of the phone because they hope to make it up with a few years of phone bills.

It works, too, because... (wait for it)... people don't want to change their phone numbers. (Another reason the cell companies dislike number portability). AOL is assuming the same thing will happen with their service -- customers will decide it's too much work to change it, stick with AOL for years, and repay AOL's investment.

(Besides, AOL is an evil megacorporation. If they don't make their money back, they'll just find a way to write it off on their taxes.)

Re:They're trusting customer laziness, duh.

[buck_wild]

I'm not positive, but I think that was nation-wide.

Software licenses?

[mccalli]

They will ignore the fact that by law, when they send something in the mail, it becomes the property of the recipient.

OK - I know I'm replying in a humourless fashion to a joke but...

You know, I'd never thought of that angle before. Does this mean if I buy software mail-order, when it arrives it's legally mine and not some license-restricted thing? That is to say, because it came in the post I can do whatever I want with it, including copying it to multiple machines etc.?

I don't believe the above is true by the way, but I can't put my finger on exactly why not.

Cheers,
Ian

Good Almighty God.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Could it be they're taking Darl seriously?

New tech support lingo

[Scratch-O-Matic]

Great. Until now, when a client told me that their "aol wasn't working", I understood that to mean that they were having trouble with their internet connection. Now, it might mean trouble with their hard drive, cd, monitor, office suite, keyboard, ...

Not really good for WebTV users

[sracer]

There are 2 main reasons why people chose WebTV...

1. Low initial cost
2. Ease-of-Use
3. small footprint (to a lesser extent)

This "deal" addresses the low initial cost (somewhat) but isn't fundamentally different than the rebate deals offered a few years back for MSN and Prodigy.

When all is said and done, they end up with the same "complex" PC they chose to avoid (reason #2).

I purchased a WebTV setup for my parents 2 years ago, and in less than an hour, my Mom and Dad who had never used a computer (or anything with a keyboard) before were able to email and surf the web. They feel very comfortable with it and use it to keep in touch with the family (we're spread to the 4 corners of the globe)

They like WebTV so much, that they picked up a 2nd WebTV terminal at Electronics Boutique for $10 to use at their Summer place. With a simple 1 minute phone call, they get can switch the activation of the terminals and avoid having to transport WebTV from their Summer to Winter place.

Now, if they were offering a "locked down" PC with added functionality and rock-solid reliability...THEN, it could be a good alternative/upgrade for WebTV users.

Oh no! AOL control!!

[Christianfreak]

"With this action AOL controls everything from the OS to the Word Processor to the web sites their customers browse."

Uhhhh.... how is this different from Microsoft controlling all that when you buy a Dell, Gateway et. al.?

Besides they are running XP so I'm not sure where the idea that they control the OS comes from, and last I checked you could browse the entire Internet with the AOL client (just glorified IE).

Finally what's "AOL Office Powered by Sun"? OpenOffice (or StarOffice) rebranded again is my guess. How is that a bad thing?

goodness no

[comet69]

haha.. what a bargain!!!

SIKE!

jesus god are they for real? Its just hard to believe that those bastards are still charging $23 a month to have crappy dialup internet access.. Of course they can afford to sell those comps for $299.. i'm sure it wouldnt cost too much more than that for a complete celeron system if you were to buy it from someone else, or get your neighborhood computer geek to build it for you.. it just bothers me that people still pay an arm and leg for a bad internet provider, and a bad PC.. the motivation for searching for bargains has been lost.. i guess thats why people still use m$ windows.. commercialized innovation has gotten the best of the majority..

I bought one...

[4Runner]

I am heavy Linux user and I bought one.

You ask why? Well, my in-laws need a computer, and they need internet access for that computer.

I could have built them a computer, but it would be hard for me to build something reasonable for a decent price and still pay for Windows XP. Yes, I personally use Linux, but I can't expect the in-laws to use Linux. They have never owned a computer in their life. They are in their 60s and this would be their first computer.

So, they get a decent computer with internet access (which I am paying for) for 1 year with AOL service.

After 1 year, they could switch to the econo-AOL service, or another cheap ISP.

New Dells

[Anonymous Custard]

New Dells (even lowest models) come with 6 months of aol or earthlink dial-up, so this 12 months thing is really not worth it. I'm sure other companies have similar arrangements.

Math done wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Just so we're clear:

To determine how much you're going to pay if you buy a $299 computer and make equal monthly payments on an account with 21.7% annual interest compounded monthly, we can approximate with this formula:

Total Paid = .217/12*299*12+299 = .217*299+299
Total Paid = 64.88+299=363.88

Just to be clear.

Look to the cellphone industry.

[Anonymous Coward]

AOL is basically taking the model the cellphone industry uses and applying it to online services. When you get that oh-so-wonderful "free" phone, your contract finances the phone. If you lost the phone and tried to get another one, that phone would be at least $150. All that AOL has to do is run credits and take security deposits and they're all set.. only...

Oh wait, the people who have credit to do this probably have a computer already, and the people who really need the el cheapo computer with the crappy internet service won't pass credit.

Good luck AOL.

Use AMD

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't they use the cheaper, faster Duron? Celery's suck.

Re:Better?

[symbolic]

I thought Dell decided recently that it didn't want to have anything to do with "better".

MMmmmm No.

[geekoid]

The margin is to thin to be padding very much on the OEM cd cost.
SUre the may roll it over to 35 bucks, but that isn't even close to 200 bucks retail.

Sig

[geekoid]

the ability to edit posts on slashdot would be a mistake. Trolls/flamers would write perfectly nice posts, then change them later.
I've never seen where being able to edit posts improve a site.

At least it's not running Microsoft Bob

[buck_wild]

Though that may be easier for those AOLers out there.

Here's a nice example:

http://toastytech.com/guis/bob2.html

Dear Asshat (and friends),

[Anonymous Coward]

Please RTF Parent before spouting off about why something is being discussed you obtuse piece of bovine excrement.

Re: Applies also to MS

[MerlynEmrys67]

Through OEMs I would be suprised if Microsoft even had a $0.15 BOM cost. Microsoft is responsible for shipping one golden CD to each OEM that the OEM is responsible for reproducting. I would imagine that Microsoft does take a charge somewhere north of 0.15 to cover support costs (probably in the 2-3 dollars a copy range) - but even then the OEM is responsible for primary Custommer support for XP.

A nice business if you can get it