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SCO Ordered to Produce Evidence
harmless_mammal and others wrote in with news from the SCO-IBM hearing in Utah today - apparently the judge has ordered SCO to respond to IBM's discovery requests within 30 days. IBM is asking SCO to tell IBM precisely what code it is alleging is infringing, and to date SCO has failed to show any evidence whatsoever. Some reports from the hearing are at Groklaw, which is already slow under the load. If SCO continues to fail to produce the evidence they've claimed they have, the judge will likely be very displeased, perhaps dismissing the lawsuit entirely.
We can end all this SCO crap. Though I get the feeling that they've already gotten what they want...
LOAD "SIG",8,1
The judge could, indeed, dismiss the case if SCO refuses to comply, but that is an extreme remedy that is seldom used. I think SCO will either give the information (although probably not with "specificity") or else dismiss the suit on its own. As Michael's pithy tag-line says, this is a classic case of put-up-or-shut-up, and I (like most /.ers) doubt there is much of anything to "put-up."
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
IN reality, SCO will produce something, no matter how B.S. it is.
But it'd be super cool for them to produce nothing and have the judge fine them, and then KICK THEM IN THE NUTS. Yeah, that'd be sweet.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Hey darl, better start eating exlax and prunes!
You know you have a popular site when you are Slashdotted even before your story hits /.
From Groklaw:
;)
First Report from Grokker Inside Hearing: IBM Wins Both Motions to Compel Friday, December 05 2003 @ 02:30 PM EST
Our first report from a Groklaw volunteer, sam, who attended the court hearing is that IBM won both of its motions to compel and SCO's motion was set for a later date. Here is what sam is telling us, and it's subject to further information and confirmation as more news arrives. We have several attending and I'll do a followup, but this is the first word. Here is what sam is telling us:
"Just returned from the hearing.
"Needless to say there was blood all over the floor on the SCO side of the aisle none on the 'left' side.
"Judge granted both IBM motions to compel, gave SCO thirty days to comply 'with specificity' and suspended further discovery. Did not rule on the SCO motion until next hearing scheduled for Friday, Jan 23 and 10:00 am.
"SCO did say that they will be filing a complaint within days on copyright violations.
"More to come"
So it looks like they have 30 days to finally tell us what code they are talking about "with specificity". Finally.
like the little bitch that he is
They better be careful or SCO may sue the judge.
Each side has spent bucketloads of money and all the judge could come up with so far is "Shit or get off the pot."
Fabulous.
Trolling is a art,
At least the outcome wasn't as dire as predicted here.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
Here's the Groklaw post, since it'll never survive /. today:
First Report from Grokker Inside Hearing: IBM Wins Both Motions to Compel
Friday, December 05 2003 @ 02:30 PM EST
Our first report from a Groklaw volunteer, sam, who attended the court hearing is that IBM won both of its motions to compel and SCO's motion was set for a later date. Here is what sam is telling us, and it's subject to further information and confirmation as more news arrives. We have several attending and I'll do a followup, but this is the first word. Here is what sam is telling us:
"Just returned from the hearing."Needless to say there was blood all over the floor on the SCO side of the aisle none on the 'left' side.
"Judge granted both IBM motions to compel, gave SCO thirty days to comply 'with specificity' and suspended further discovery. Did not rule on the SCO motion until next hearing scheduled for Friday, Jan 23 and 10:00 am.
"SCO did say that they will be filing a complaint within days on copyright violations.
"More to come"
So it looks like they have 30 days to finally tell us what code they are talking about "with specificity". Finally.
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
Hopefully the judge will order SCO to pay for the courts' time in filing such a meritless suit, a practice I believe our entire tort system should follow.
If this "evidence" is produced...will it become immediately public, or be only for the use of the lawyers and/or court?
This would be very nice...it's a start anyway. I wonder what they (the SCO) is going to do? I'm interested to see the what the new rabbit looks like when they pull it out of the hat.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
Why is this under the yro section? It doesn't affect my rights online. Or anyone else.
That judge sees fit to throw this mess out of court and I'm going to need the space for all the flowers I'm sending to those chambers...
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
Yippee yay!
:D
Boot to the head!
Down with SCO!
Go Linux!
SCO is gonna have to show this code or get their asses turfed out of court and into contempt. Not from court. Just from us. (Though whether we already hold contempt for SCO is debatable).
In other words I AM PLEASED!
This is like the greatest Christmas present ever...3 weeks before Christmas
I'm amazing. You aren't. SUCK IT
It's about time. SCO has been getting away with all of the accusations. This should be interesting.
Doesn't Darl have to show 4 quarters of profit to get his bonus and this is the last one?
I fear that also having suspended their financial reports (showing basically that they're screwed) from the 8th until the 22nd of this month, there won't be enough time in holidays for their stock to divebomb into the ground. What with 30 more days they can keep talking crap, it seems come December 30th Darl's millions will be his.
void main()
{
cout "Hello world!";
}
---
Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
In today's news... the revolutionary constitutional defenders of the universe, a.k.a., SCO, suffered a major blow today when the communist group promoting "Free Software" won a motion for discovery.
The SCO groups overlord Darth Mahl, I mean Darl, started crying when he heard the news. Trying to gain his composure, he was still able to mutter the words, "We'll still sue you. Don't lose faith in us. We'll sue you to defend the constitution..."
I don't like Linux, but having choice is better than not having it. I hope SCO is wrong and the case is dismissed.
IBM does not have to respond to any more of SCO's interrogatories until and unless SCO coughs up and SCO's motion to compel is heard in late January.
Also, SCO admitted that IBM didn't put any Sys V code in Linux. They are claiming that IBM misappropriated Unixware trade secrets they learned in the Monteray project. They are also claiming that IBM had a contractual obligation to keep RCU, and NUMA technologies confidential. Expect that argument to be thoroughly demolished by IBM's crack legal team as opposed to SCO's crack-smoking legal team.
A big win for IBM in this legal chessgame.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
"Notice the word "Linux", it is derived from the word "Unix" - intellectual property stolen from us!"
I wonder if the judge can dismiss the issue "with prejudice," which effectively means they can't bring the same kind of suit again. If done so "without prejudice," it means that they could theorteically bring this complaint again.
Probably can't do that, but it's nice to dream...
-- PhoneBoy
The views expressed herein are not necessarily those of anyone, including the poster.
With yesterdays creative writing episode by Darl, I can only imagine the "evidence" that will show up. I am not saying that they will "produce" *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* evidence, but I wouldn't put it past them.
/.ed?
Did anybody else notice that Graklaw, was, ummm,
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
...how much of a role Microsoft played in all this? I can't imagine SCO going to the lengths that they did without knowing that a certain company was going to bail them out in the end. I full well expect to see Microsoft buy SCO and leverage the commercial UNIX IP over the entire world any way that a lawyer will let them.
As Cartman would say, " I'll Roshambeaux you for it!"
:)
If you don't watch South Park, you won't get it. IBM just claimed the right of first kick.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
That is the great thing about our legal system; anybody can sue for any reason. What audacity for a judge to order proof that the suit has foundation.
What is the judicial system coming to if you must have a real reason to sue someone.
stuff like:
.
.
for (i = 0; i < SIZE; i++) {
}
The hearing covered the Motions to Compel filed by both IBM and SCO.
The judge granted IBM's motions, forcing SCO to reply within 30 days, but did not rule on SCO's own motion to compel against IBM--that was postponed until Jan 24.
SCO has to show its evidence first--the court will not allow SCO to fish for evidence of IBM's wrongdoing eight months after filing suit.
Forced to produce evidence after a nine-month campaign of libel and slander... the legal system works!
And what about /.? What are we to do without SCO? Go back to Microsoft bashing? Too easy. Troll about Natalie Portman and hot grits? Too two weeks ago, man.
And what about Groklaw? Who will /. them if not us trying to see the latest SCO foolishness!
Just stop it, right now!
This is the beginning of the end for SCO. They have 30 days to show the code and then they will die. They have no code. Even if, by some miracle, they did have code it would be removed, no matter what the effort.
Once this copyright thing is dead we just have to bone up on our patent law. That is next and is the real threat. Think of this as an easy warmup. We either need IBM to use its huge patent portfolio to protect OSS or we need to get the ridiculous laws changed. Note that an IBM defense just leaves the hole open for any two bit company with some backing to come up and make a fuss, the laws have to change.
There are miles to go before we sleep.
Groklaw's been slashdotted. Maybe they should run their web server on SCO!
What's really bizarre is that apparently none of the high-priced lawyers from Boise & Co. even showed up at the hearing. SCO was represented by...
Darl McBride's brother.
WTH? Did DB finally realize his client was, um, fibbing to him and that he was filing a frivolous lawsuit?
The really telling thing is whether the upcoming copyright suit against a user comes from the Boies firm or from SCO directly. If the latter, we can figure that Boies has wised up and is inching away with his cash.
See this. It has to be related to the order to produce evidence?
Isn't a tort like sandwich, but with different bread?
and then KICK THEM IN THE NUTS
Come on now, this isn't Australia.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Judge granted both IBM motions to compel, gave SCO thirty days to comply 'with specificity' and suspended further discovery
The same brute power of the Open Source movement is at work with this lawsuit as well. Should the code ever become public, you can be assured that the source of the source will be sourced faster than you can say...uh...'source'.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Darl and Co. spin this one!
Ruby on Rails Screencast
SCO, oh SCO, why did you go? Oh because a judge finally made it so. For $699 you thought you could buy execs and lawyers big boats. Now the world sees that you no longer float.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
...and the geek shall inherit the Earth.
Peter Mayhew, actor best known for his role as Chewbacca in Star Wars, the Empire Strikes back and Return of the Jedi has stated that he has been asked to reprise his famous role by a Utah Based Software Company. Details at this time are scetchy but Mayhew did comment that "I'm delighted to return as Chewbacca, Chewbacca lived with with Ewoks on Endor, I know it doesn't make any sense".
Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
No question about it, SCO has NO evidence!
that they'll produce some of the same public domain type code we saw in the SCOforums to the judge, then claim that if it was stolen from their System V code or is a matter of fact for a jury to decide...
SCO is FINALLY going to give "evidence" of their claims. The time for Linux's reign is nigh....
got sig?
NO MORE SCO STORIES!
You are not logged in. You can log in now using the convenient form below, or Create an Account, or post as Anonymous Coward.
I know that I for one do NOT want this case dismissed. I would like to see it finished out for the future of Linux and the GPL. Let's put all this rubbish to bed. If this thing goes to court and SCO losses, then Linux and the GPL will be that much stronger. Less likely to be attacked down the road.
SCO is knowingly making false and misleading statements which negatively impact IBM, RedHat, etc. Furthermore they are representing themselves to linux-using businesses as owners of Linux IP and demanding license fees. This is all not just unlikely to succeed, but in fact illegal. It's fraud. If prosecutors want to deal with it, Sontag, McBride, etc could see themselves facing not just civil actions which could be ameliorated by resignation and/or bankruptcy, but criminal actions. And I hope they do. They represent a destructive force, they are theives, and I hope they suffer the consequences.
Great... so instead of posting a mirror, they make ABSOLUTELY SURE that Groklaw melts down.
I'm sorry, guys, but I really think this is crappy. You cry about how it's hard to mirror stuff, because it would require *gasp* permission. So instead of taking a little extra time, particularly when you know that the remote server ALREADY can't handle the load, you aim tens of thousands of hits at them.
I'm sure this isn't the intention, but it is essentially a deliberate DoS.
Enough excuses, already.... the prior permission thing just doesn't work anymore. Google mirrors practically EVERYTHING and they don't have specific permission. You can live by the same rules they do.
At the VERY least, in cases where the server is already obviously choking, post a synopsis without a link.
...we knew it was going to happen... try to layoff the grokker until they get back up - the full text is in the replies above anyway.
Some classmates and I in the PMST program at the University of Utah just completed a Business Fundementals course. As part of the course, we completed a semester long project that analyzed The SCO Group. We came to same conclusions that many analysts did, that if SCO wins this case, it will be huge for them. But no one can come close to saying for sure that they are going to win. Download the report here.
Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
SCO has been spouting a bunch of garbage (as has recently been posted here on slashdot) about what the GPL means and what the people behind the free software and open source movement stand for. Will anything come of those claims by SCO? Will they be challenged? I'd like to see some libel/slander charges brought against them, or at least some defamation lawsuits.
Also, SCO admitted that IBM didn't put any Sys V code in Linux.
What's more likely is that they still think that IBM did, but they realize that by distributing it GPL'ed under Caldera Linux they've given up rights to it, and they don't want a judge making that determination. Such a ruling would have been a major victory for Libre Software advocates.
The trade secrets thing is just an excuse to make it seem like they still have a reason to be in court.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
"Come on, Darl: sh*t, or get off the potty!" :)
First Report from Grokker Inside Hearing: IBM Wins Both Motions to Compel
Friday, December 05 2003 @ 02:30 PM EST
Our first report from a Groklaw volunteer, sam, who attended the court hearing is that IBM won both of its motions to compel and SCO's motion was set for a later date. Here is what sam is telling us, and it's subject to further information and confirmation as more news arrives. We have several attending and I'll do a followup, but this is the first word. Here is what sam is telling us:
"Just returned from the hearing.
"Needless to say there was blood all over the floor on the SCO side of the aisle none on the 'left' side.
"Judge granted both IBM motions to compel, gave SCO thirty days to comply 'with specificity' and suspended further discovery. Did not rule on the SCO motion until next hearing scheduled for Friday, Jan 23 and 10:00 am.
"SCO did say that they will be filing a complaint within days on copyright violations.
"More to come"
So it looks like they have 30 days to finally tell us what code they are talking about "with specificity". Finally.
One last thing - PJ Rocks!
This judge cannot dismiss the case because this is NOT the judge that will try the case. The trial judge can take a recommendation from this judge, which is possible.
The only thing that remains is what is SCO going to produce within the next 30 days.
Banjo - The more I know about Windoze, the more I love *nix
And down the hill we go!
I expect that by the time the new year rolls along, we will be looking at a much lower stock price.
How come SCOX didn't fall through the floor?
Did the news come out too late?
Or was this a likelihood already built into the expectations of investors?
16.50, -.84%
.. than the judge simply throwing the case out. Let's hope he orders SCO to pay IBM's legal fees, forces SCO to require court clearance to sue anyone else, and orders/suggests an inquiry into SCOs stock price manipulation in addition to throwing out the case.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
This whole SCO fiasco was concocted by the geeks over at Groklaw to stress test their servers!
1. Patch
2. Post to Slashdot
3. Monitor Load
4. If crash, go to 1 else
5. Profit!!
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Even if this case does get dismissed, there still is IBM's countersuit. I'm sure IBM will still pursue their claims against SCO, when this case is ended once an for all.
Recently I a stand major issue which had me to have and when inspected stats the considerable amount bandwith data to hit 2 contrary recording in a month. In is me to discover its some research are the AltaVista networm or robot middle inspect each and everybody page pass in mine stand including me often use Google for the user search the script. Is not a good deed. Is like SCO deed. When I had discovered this I do to the robots some research help control the robot because I mentioned they proceed from this spot. In front of you obtains your stand to list is possessing these searches reactions to stop and to think a while. You want to possess your page by the sign note? Searches the engine is great. You must only submit only URL for the search engine and, once it knew your stand existence, it automatically will search for possesses your other pages of uses robot and increases these pages to come within several weeks it the index. But this invasiveness possibly creates the problem if you did not want certain pages to be similar to by the sign note I to discover when inspected my stats. For example you want the wrong page which your order form, has custom-made, confirmed the page and so on is listed is searching the engine? Probably is not. Any is so possible you to do prevents it. Some two technologies. You will use you to be able to include in the page you do not want the sign note a special step mark. Other creates the robot. We will process machine humanities this article this time and other days for step mark.
Ok?
IBM: "Show me!"
Darl McBride: "No! What are you going to do about it? Huh?"
IBM: "I'll make you, you little punk."
Darl McBride: "Oh yeah? You touch me and I'll get my big brother after you."
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Since I sort of got into groklaw... /. warning.
Authored by: Waterman on Friday, December 05 2003 @ 03:14 PM EST
Look out PJ when the Slashdot crowds finds out about this.
Sugesstion would be to tell Slashdot but request that they not link to the site
for a while.
We need to read all the stuff first that has been going on today. :-)
[ Reply to This ]
* /. warning. - Authored by: Waterman on Friday, December 05 2003 @ 03:17 PM EST
* 56 second hang time - Authored by: trox on Friday, December 05 2003 @ 03:53 PM EST
When life hands you lemons, grab the salt and pass the tequilla...
You know, the parent post ISN'T offtopic; it's a funny and relevant paraphrasing of a South Park bit about irrational defense of legal claims.
Actually, I think that post sums up SCO's position much better than any argument I've seen appear so far in the endless series of SCO topics to appear on Slashdot.
hey is anyone helping our major source of reasonable information????
Even IF the SCO crime syndicate is thrown out of court, they will continue to "plead their case" in the media like they've been doing. They've already got a few trained seals slapping their fins on command in the media (like Didio) in their favour.
SCO needs a MAJOR smackdown if we're ever going to shut them up good.
He indicated that the way the ruling was handed down, the judge appears to be getting tired of the runaround and wants SCO to put up or shut up. He also indicated that this is a possible or probable precursor to dismissal if SCO doesn't provide exactly what's needed within 30 days.
As he put it, "sounds like SCO was going fishing, and the judge was having none of that."
Mark, sweep, sco
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Have you ever seen the animated short, "Bambi vs. Godzilla"?
That pretty much sums up SCO's lawyers vs. IBM's.
You dope! We're geeks here! We settle things with Rock, Paper, Scissors, Spock, Lizard!!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
And with that, they ate SCO. And there was much rejoicing.
yaaay...
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
Darl has watched every single episode of Mattlock and Perry Mason twice. This whole thing about having all the critical evidence on the table before the trial date is completely unprecedented.
1. Detailed migration plan and tools to ease transition from SCO UnixWare to Linux. This includes researching companies that will do his service. A paper showing hard numbers on the cost savings and benefit of migrating away from SCO Unixware.
2. Create a collection of testimonials from former SCO customers who has successfully migrated away from SCO products.
3. Extensive benchmark showing inferiority of SCO Unixware.
4. Feature comparison between SCO Unixware and Linux.
5. Create a list of things Linux can do that SCO products cannot do.
6. List of hardware that Linux supports which SCO products do not.
7. Create a list of companies using SCO product and educate these companies about findings from 1 - 4.
8. Urge Free Software and Open Source developers to drop support for SCO Unixware across all softwares being developed. GNU Software (GCC, Emacs, libraries, autotools, base utils), Samba, Apache, OpenSSL, OpenOffice, XFree86, Gnome, KDE, etc.
9. Dissemination of information regarding insider trading of SCOX stock. Collection of detailed information on who is selling how much shares and when.
10. Analysis of all SEC filings by SCO especially that part about disclosure of all SCO's competitors and it's liability with investing money in SCO.
11. Create a collection documents debunking every single press releases, interviews and official statement made by SCO officials. Dissection of every sentence ever came out of Darl McBride's mouth clearly citing fallacies, misinformation, and contradictions.
12. Create a list of all patents held by SCO and then systematically try to disprove the validity of those patents by citing prior art.
13. Start a letter writing campaign to Wall Street analysts of all the findings from above. (There has to be Linux users who has connection to Wall Street folks.)
Any thought?
Why would IBM "settle very quickly for an agreement by SCO not to challenge its rights to UNIX/LINUX in the future"?
They don't get anything out of the "deal" (especially considering that SCO's challenges will be reduced to yelling at the sky once this goes down. I'd say IBM is going to want cash to pay for legal fees, or more likely offer to buy SCO. That may be exactly what SCO has been after, not just pump-and-dump.
GL
"I wonder what they (the SCO) is going to do? I'm interested to see the what the new rabbit looks like when they pull it out of the hat."
Well, it'll probably be brown, and smelly, and mushy...
Just like everything else that they've pulled out of their as^H^Hhat.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
ka-rist! can you be any MORE anally-retentive?
Spread the RC luvin'
Thank God for appeals and continuances. I'd just die if Slashdot stopped running their thrice daily SCO updates.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
The moral that Darl and his lawyers/thugs should probably learn here is that if you repeat an outrageous lie over and over, it never becomes the truth.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
We've all read on /. how a few companies whose identities were not released, paid SCO. Let's hope they nail SCO into the ground when the case is dismissed, if at all possible.
I had a sucky sig.
Post that on comp.lang.c++ and read the replies then!
Is it just cooicidense that the Yahoo Financepage is down, or has the rush to see SCO stock prices drop killed it?
One bad monkey spoils the whole barrel.
somewhere he overloaded the whitepace to be the output stream operator...
yes, yes, yes, he didn't "include" it...ha, ha, ha
Spread the RC luvin'
With Alan Meckler, the CEO of Jupitermedia. His company recently put on the CDXPO conference where Darl gave a keynote speech. I asked Alan if he had attended that keynote, and he said that he had.
I believe his quote was, "He's like a Nazi propagandist, trying to convince everyone that concentration camps are for the good of the country"
God Fucking Damnit
... but could this be a jury trial?
"Derp de derp."
"SCO asserts that the GPL, under which Linux is distributed, violates the United States Constitution and the U.S. copyright and patent laws."
Someone who knows more about law then I do, please tell me this is 100% untrue. An author (copyright holder) can use whatever license he/she chooses right?
It would set a pretty bad precedent if IBM were to settle what has been a PR disaster for Linux for such small terms. Even worse is the possibility that this is all being spurned on by Microsoft, in which case they're not deterred at all. If Microsoft IS behind this, then an example needs to be made to all companies that doing MS's dirty work for them could get real expensive once the fit hits the shan.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
I am amazed at watching the stock price
The volume is astronomical, yet the price is staying about the same. What that says is that tons are dumping, and others are picking it up. I just wonder who is picking it up in light of the news?
I am also wondering what is holding back the SEC? By now, they should have announced something.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I wouldn't go back to Micro$oft bashing unless Micro$oft did something REALLY outrageous, like charging you for using FAT32 technology in your products or something like that, and what are the odds of that?
short sellers, you have no more than 30 days to get your shares! get 'em while you can!
I don't recall the one where Cartman says that.
'Screw you guys, I'm going home' or 'I'll kick you in the nuts', sure, but Roshambeaux?
ps. subject line cut short by character limit.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=5d&l=on&z=m &q=l&c=
Someone over at groklaw also seized on this, sounds like a pretty ticked off judge to me too. I'm not going to lever open the Friexnet just yet, but I have to be encouraged by this.
Of course, we have yet to see what SCO hauls out of the arsenal of pre-emptive counter-FUD... But on the whole, I think we have some reason to relax.
In spite of all the bluster, I think we all have had misgivings that the courts would seriously botch this case. While today's decision doesn't absolve me of that worry, I do feel a lot more confident than I did logging in this morning.
Makes me want to go over to the SCO site, and taunt them through their feedback form.
Must resist urge to gloat...
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
IBM will see this through to the end.
Suggestion for any former SCO employees who happen to have old systems or tapes they brought home from work... old surplus PCs they picked up when the machine rooms got cleaned out... old backup tapes laying around from the weekend you took your work home with you... that sorta media.
If you have such media, keep that media somewhere safe. When and if SCO produces its "evidence" and its changelogs, compare the evidence against your memories of what went into the code, when it went in, and against what you have on your known-to-be-unaltered media.
Let's see if further hilarity ensues.
... and this is my brother Darl and my other brother Darryl.
"I see dead executives. Making press releases like regular executives. They don't know they're dead!"
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Dear Santa
Thank you for the most excellent gift, and early to boot!
Now, if you could just see your way to also delivering my request about spammers, I will endevour to be a VERY good boy this year.
www.eFax.com are spammers
The IBM vs. SCO case should be aired on Court TV live. It was would unbelievably funny to see SCO try to pull a dynamite monkey out of their asses. If the source code does not fit, you must acquit!
[...] the court hearing is that IBM won both of its motions to compel [...]
Oddly, the Minutes only mention #68. Maybe the other one is included by implication or something.
Transcribed by 'yogi61bear'
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Gee.... I wonder why?
MINUTES OF THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH
JUDGE: Hon. Brooke Wells
COURT REPORTER:
COURTROOM DEPUTY: Amy Pehrson
DATE: December 5, 2003
CASE NO. 2:03CV294DAK
SCO v IBM
APPEARANCE OF COUNSEL
Pla Kevin McBride, Brent Hatch
Dft David Marriot, Todd Shaugnessey
MATTER SET: Motion to Compel
Counsel for both parties present. The Court hears arguments re: Motion to Compel
(#68). Court GRANTS motion. Plaintiff is to provide responses/affidavits within
30 days of the entry of this order. All other discovery is to be postponed until
the order has been complied with. An order reflecting this ruling is to be
prepared by counsel for defendant. A motion hearing is scheduled for 1/23/04 at
10:00 a.m. Court is adjourned.
Case Title: 2:03CV294DAK, SCO v IBM
10 minutes working on a sig. What a waste.
...it might have something to do with the fact that, for the first time since this whole ugly debacle began in March, SCO had to get up in front of a judge and make its case, instead of trying it in the (clueless financial) media.
/. to cover it.
Man, the SCO-story whiners are starting to bug me as much as the JonKatz whiners did, before I removed him from my story preferences two years ago.
Again, if everyone is so pissed off about the SCO coverage, uncheck the "Caldera" topic in your Slashdot preferences and they'll go away (taking your much-vaunted eyeball impressions with them, for the tinfoil hats who think Slashdot is only flogging this case to get hits).
But this case is arguably more important to the Free/Open Source Software community than the Microsoft antitrust trial was, and as long as the suit progresses, and SCO shouts blatant lies about Open Source software, its advocates, and the GPL, expect
Jay (=
As for IBM's lawyers, I don't know the details of IBM's internal structure, but generally speaking in-house counsel handle thinks like transactions and reviewing licensing agreements. Big-time litigation is contracted out to firms that specialize in litigation. You may be thinking that IBM is probably involved in enough litigation to justify hiring its own trial lawyers, but think about how many jurisdictions they would have to be licensed in to be worthwhile (it's very unusual for lawyers to be licensed in more than a couple states -- bar exams just aren't that fun, not to mention the yearly continuing education requirements for each state). I do know some details about another behemoth business entity, Wal-Mart, and its legal department handles contracts and real estate, and that's pretty much it.
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
You mean we (SCO) actually have to come up wiht something now....I (SCO) was hoping they'd just settle for lots of $$ out of court. SHIT SHIT SHIT
Ave Molech Setting
The volume is astronomical [...]
WTF are you talking about? The volume today was pretty much nonexistant, about 2/3:rds of the average (234,629 versus the average of 323,545), though pretty normal for a friday.
It wasn't anywhere near astronomical. And also, the news came directly from the court to Groklaw via 'Sam' during the last half hour of trading or so.
No, the interesting things lie ahead of us. FUD during the weekend, possible stock-movement on Monday -- but remember, there isn't a whole lot of float on this one.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Here's a little thought I had ...
SCO has been pressing IBM to show them IBM's code in their discovery documents. SCO wants every single last drop of code in IBM's entire repository. AIX, Dynix, all the operating systems even remotely related to the issue at hand. Could it be that once SCO has acquired the code, they could dissemble it illegally, and spread it out into the public domain, as "payback" for what they consider Linux has done to SCO code, which is to spread out trade secrets and code. Since SCO is already deep in grey legal territory, it's a small step to just toss *all* and *any* code IBM will release in Discovery to a safe Russian, or Chinese FTP site, and have it aired out like laundry
IBM refuses to show any code whatsoever because the IBM code is extremely valuable. The judge is now forcing SCO to show infringing code first, so the scheme is temporarily halted. But with the instability of SCO, I think something is still going on ....
SCO: "IBM sucks! And we can prove it!"
Judge: "Ok, then prove it..."
SCO: "*DRUMS*... they are using our code!!!!"
Judge: "SCO, stop being such an ass, that's no proof."
SCO: "Yeh... ehmmm... I guess we will never know unless we check that, uh??"
Diego Rey
diegoT
More on the hearing :1 61348100
= Headlines
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031205
Links to static headline page:
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page
"HA-HA"
-Nelson
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I started out thinking about all the ways that I could demolish his argument (not terribly hard), when the thought suddenly occurred to me that, in a sense, that was exactly what SCO wanted.
Let's use a little common sense on the whole SCO thing.
First off, toss out a couple of emotionally popular but rather unlikely theories:
1) Darl McBride is insane, in the medical, legally-incompetent sense of the word. If he was, the rest of SCO and the Canopy Group would have shut him down a long time ago. Similar reasoning applies for "unbelievably stupid", "totally ignorant" and similar epithets.
2) #1 is true, but for everybody in SCO and Canopy, not just Darl, which is why he's still there. Ok, c'mon. If you're that out of touch with reality, talk to your doctor about upping the dosage on the little green pills.
A common allegation is that Darl McBride is a greedy money-grubber with the morals of an advertising exec. This is probably true, but in America, at least, being greedy on behalf of your company is not only not frowned on, it is (somewhat) required by law. (There is a SEC regulation that requires all publicly-owned corporations to try and maximize the value of their stock. Since it says nothing about HOW that's to be done, the range of tactics is pretty wide. You won't find any American corporations saying "We gave away all our profits, 'cause we felt like being nice guys", though.)
SCO's basic strategy is obvious: Fire the shotgun everywhere possible, as often as possible, and see what sticks. I saw an article the other day that said the software business in 2004 was predicted to be about $230 billion. If SCO can get 1/10 of 1% of that, they'd be ecstatic.
Another characteristic that McBride has, he shares with lawyers, politicians, and most high-powered types in business: a thick skin. I very much doubt he has been bothered in the least by the various vilifications called down on him by his detractors.
I think he was a bit surprised at it when it first started, but since then, it's been more of a weapon in his arsenal than anything else. If he is not bothered by name-calling and accusations, but the other side (the open source community, in general terms) is, then the more furious the argument, the better his odds of being able to find a weak point and exploit it somehow. At the very least, he (and SCO) can point at all the ranters and ravers and claim "With enemies that act like THAT, doesn't it make sense that we're the ones in the right?" (Something along these lines may be what got the money out of Baystar.)
If you're caught up in a strong emotion, you're not entirely sane. If you're angry, all kinds of little things you would ordinarily blow off make you even angrier. If you're ecstatically happy, you can find a silver lining in a mushroom cloud.
The reason I brought up politicians, lawyers, and CEOs earlier is that they all have one thing in common. I called it a "thick skin" earlier. Another way to describe it is that they have the ability to climb out of their emotions and think rationally again about whatever the subject is. That ability is what gets them paid the big bucks.
So what I think SCO is doing with a lot of the more unbelievable claims they've made (like the attack on the GPL last night) is not to seriously convince anyone of that position, it's to stir up trouble. The more emotional the opposition gets, the better the odds that something, anything, will happen that he (they) can exploit. It goes with the shotgun approach: the more you get things stirred up, the more targets of opportunity there are.
Fortunately for IBM, they have good lawyers, who haven't been influenced in any way they shouldn't be by the public furor. They simply stuck to the facts and the law. My favorite element of what they've been saying is that it's mostly in plain English. When one side speaks English and the other sid
shit || getoff(pot) /* should not have gotten this far */
SELL! SELL! SELL!
no one cares about yer box, dipshit, 'j00' don't own anyone just cuz yer box is phat (it is phat, tho)
"Anything for a buck!"
vi ~/.emacs
Did IBM request _specifically_ that it be given unfettered access (*read: NO NDA) to the code in question?
.02
I wouldn't be surprised if SCO told IBM "You can see the code in question, but please sign the NDA." I'm sure they'll force the Court to _declare_ that discovery be "open." You can expect some more run around before the discovery actually "completes." Since none, or at least few, of us are lawyers, this might be a valid question. I would assume discovery cannot be dependant upon any encumbering NDA. But SCO proves time and time again they're just stalling for a buy-out.
Just my
-Robert
(Fun with subst, or, "my, but we're selective about our support of copyrights")
No, Kazaa has seriously damaged RIAA's business, taking money out of their pockets. RIAA needs to make an example out of them, preferably getting the Courts involved. You DON'T want to send the signal that "playing the download lottery" has no downside; that would only encourage other slimey types with no respect for copyrights to attempt simular tactics. Oh, and if RIAA is anything like Intel, their lawyers get paid the same regardless of whether or not they crush Kazaa into greasy pink pancakes, so letting Kazaa off easy won't save RIAA any money.
Disclaimer: I hate the RIAA and haven't bought a CD in years, and their current legal strategy smacks of Pure Evil, but I just had to say this. Call me a troll, brand me as flamebait, but the Slashdot crowd sure wants to have its cake and eat it, too.
I am the very model of a modern major general!
That would be the Mecha-Streisand episode.
roshambo is in the episode where barbara streisand turns into a giant mech monster, and fights the guy from the cure.
it's the game where you take turns kicking each other in the nuts, and whoever falls down first loses.
They were all out selling stock as fast as they can!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
SUE! SUE! SUE!
Is anybody else reminded of Darryl, Darryl, and Darryl on Newhart?
This guy is way out there
And, in a perfect world, instituting punitive damages against the SCO corporation for bringing forth such malicious and slanderous prosecution, and then feeding them to the dogs at the FTC.
I'm doing my part not to slashdot groklaw, I don't even read the article!
warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
---------
The dyslexic Gzip Christ is user number 571386
SCO's goofey case never threatened free software and it's absolute failure would be great. SCO made a lot of noise and generated much FUD for Microsoft, but it was all without merit and would never stand in court. A dismissal would prove that and we can all go back to migrating awsy from closed source junk without having to worry about some PHB who's read the latest SCO press release or some dull echo of it in any of the WinTel trade mags.
With the colapse of this dumb trial, SCO will vanish. Bogus licensing fees are their only remaining business model. Microsoft may make another payment or two, but no one else will, SCO's stock price will colapse and that will be that. No income, no value, no trouble. The sale of assets will begin so that the lawyers can have their promissed 20% of nothing. Bye, bye assholes.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Judge Tells SCO: No, *You* Have to Show the Code First
Friday, December 05 2003 @ 04:13 PM EST
The big news from the hearing today is that Judge Wells told SCO that they have to go first. They have to show IBM what code they are alleging is infringing. All during discovery, SCO has been telling IBM they had to show all their code first, and then SCO would identify the alleged infringements. IBM kept telling SCO in reply that they had the burden, as plaintiffs, to at least tell IBM what code was involved. Today the judge told SCO that IBM was right. SCO has 30 days to comply. IBM doesn't have to turn over anything until they do it. The judge's order will be filed Wednesday, and SCO has a month to show the code. They can't force IBM to go first. That dance is over.
Cody Hilton of Guru Labs , a Utah Linux training company, attended the hearing, and the second big piece of news is that David Boies didn't show up. Darl's brother represented SCO. His brother is Kevin McBride, the same person we noted who was involved in writing the Open Letter yesterday.
Why Boies didn't show up is hard to understand. And then again, maybe not. Brent Hatch was there and so was Darl. There was no media presence at all. Or more accurately, there was a lot of press there in the building but they were all there to cover the Olympic bribery trial , which got thrown out by the judge. Nobody in the courthouse was interested in talking to Darl today, according to my eyewitnesses, to the extent that they noticed, and they were looking.
Cody talked to him, though, after it was over. He asked him why he was there, and Darl said he just wanted to get a feel for it. Cody asked him what he thought about how it went, with IBM winning both motions. Darl said he expected it. Cody rode in the elevator with IBM's Marriott and asked him how he felt about how things went. Marriott said, "We're happy. Everything went as we'd planned. We're happy with the decision."
Can we start a kind of "dead pool" for Boies & Co.? Because of the potential for embarrassment for them, I think it very unlikely they will still be SCO's counsel in 30 days. Let's see who can pick the day and time that Boies pulls out. Also - would Boies need the judge's approval to drop out at this point if SCO wanted to contest that too? The potential for fireworks seems unlimited.
According to Yahoo! Finances, they're up to 1.62M shares shorted...
How do you get current data from yahoo? When I look there, the "shares short" statistics are from Oct. 8. Thanks.
Judge Tells SCO: No, *You* Have to Show the Code First
Friday, December 05 2003 @ 04:13 PM EST
The big news from the hearing today is that Judge Wells told SCO that they have to go first. They have to show IBM what code they are alleging is infringing. All during discovery, SCO has been telling IBM they had to show all their code first, and then SCO would identify the alleged infringements. IBM kept telling SCO in reply that they had the burden, as plaintiffs, to at least tell IBM what code was involved. Today the judge told SCO that IBM was right. SCO has 30 days to comply. IBM doesn't have to turn over anything until they do it. The judge's order will be filed Wednesday, and SCO has a month to show the code. They can't force IBM to go first. That dance is over.
Cody Hilton of Guru Labs , a Utah Linux training company, attended the hearing, and the second big piece of news is that David Boies didn't show up. Darl's brother represented SCO. His brother is Kevin McBride, the same person we noted who was involved in writing the Open Letter yesterday.
Why Boies didn't show up is hard to understand. And then again, maybe not. Brent Hatch was there and so was Darl. There was no media presence at all. Or more accurately, there was a lot of press there in the building but they were all there to cover the Olympic bribery trial , which got thrown out by the judge. Nobody in the courthouse was interested in talking to Darl today, according to my eyewitnesses, to the extent that they noticed, and they were looking.
Cody talked to him, though, after it was over. He asked him why he was there, and Darl said he just wanted to get a feel for it. Cody asked him what he thought about how it went, with IBM winning both motions. Darl said he expected it. Cody rode in the elevator with IBM's Marriott and asked him how he felt about how things went. Marriott said, "We're happy. Everything went as we'd planned. We're happy with the decision."
For IBM, it was David Marriott and Todd M. Shaughnessy. There were about 15 people there sitting in the gallery, including one woman, who rumor had it might be the patent attorney SCO hired and mentioned as possibly having a conflict of interest. But that is only a rumor.
The room was small, with maybe seats in the gallery for about 20 people, but no one was denied entrance. There were seats available.
Cody says that when the judge entered, she told them that it was her inclination to grant IBM's motions, and then she let both sides speak. First, SCO's Keven McBride spoke for about 40 minutes. The judge interrupted a few times and to Cody, it seemed like the presentation was hard to follow. Basically, he was arguing that IBM should hand over code first, so SCO could go over it and then categorize the violations as to whether they were copyright violations, trade secret, etc. Then Marriott spoke for IBM. He spoke for only 20 minutes. Cody described it as clear, crisp, easy to follow, easy to understand. He cited a case, Xerox Corp. v. International Business Machines Corp., he believes, which you can find mentioned here, in footnote 3 of IBM's Memorandum in Opposition to SCO's Motion to Compel Discovery, where the judge ruled like this:
"[3] See also Xerox Corp. v. International Business Machines Corp., 64 F.R.D. 367, 371 (S.D.N.Y., 1974) ('[Plaintiff] should be able to identify in detail the trade secrets and confidential information alleged to have been misappropriated by [defendant]. Clearly until this is done, neither the court nor the parties can know, with any degree of certainty, whether discovery is relevant or not; and it is doubtful whether [plaintiff] can undertake a meaningful discovery program'.)"
The hearing lasted an hour and a half.
Frank Sorenson was there too and he also reports similarly:
"Judge Wells came into the courtroom, and announced that she had read all the filings and the relevant case law, and it was her intention to grant IBM's Motions and postpone any further Discovery until this matter was
Given that so many already have sold this stock short, and will have to buy it back at some point, the stock price will remain high for a while (even after it's blindingly obvious that the company is doomed).
Ce la via.
-tor
The perverse and atheistic ideology on which this evil is based, called GPL by its fanatical supporters, threatens democracy and freedom throughout the world. It is no less dangerous than the Baathist insurgency threatening our civilizing mission in Iraq.
More insidiously, it is currently being used to develop WMD's throughout the world , notably in The People's Republic of China that sinister paragon of evil, which incidentally we should now add to the axis of evil, now that Iraq has been bumped off the list, and you need to keep the number at 3.
As part of the war on terrorism, therefore, I urge you actively to pursue a crusade against this unrelenting cancer which threatens us all.
Yours anonymously,
The great is, the judge ordered "specificity." There can't be any vague crap claims. IBM gets to see, specifically, all this great evidence SCO has been hyping all these months.
This is the equivalent of put-up-or-shut-up. FINALLY, is all I've gotta say. A little faith in the justice system has been restored. I was thinking this would be dragged out for years.
"Sufferin' succotash."
SELL SELL SELL!
But wouldn't it be ironic if IBM cleaned SCO out and in order to pay IBM off, SCO had to give them Unix Sys V, and then IBM began to charge fees to end users?
i just dont get something. i dont care much about stocks, but i usually check about SCO's on C|Net. They also have a graph(like all other sites), and a news sections related with the company. What is weird is that i only see pro-SCO news showing up in there. Does this happens in some other financial info sites?
Well, that is what SCO was apparently trying to do. The judge just put an stop to it.
So where's the hypocrisy?
Note SCO cannot simply withdraw their suit. They've been cross-sued by IBM, and the case won't go away without IBM agreement.
SCO's going to be worthless soon.
When IBM gets the judgement against SCO, all that will be left are the legal contracts with other companies.
It wouldn't hurt IBM to have all those license agreements. That way they could pretty much ensure that nothing like this would ever happen again.
You have to be a lawyer to have a valid and informed opinion? Gee, I was under the impression a lawyer was nothing more than someone who studied law and was licensed by the state.
NOT that a lawyer was the only person who was capable of studying law or that a license from the state actually makes someone magically makes someone's opinions magically informed and valid.
Someone who is not a lawyer can know more about a point of law than any lawyer. Someone being a lawyer just assures you they've spent x amount of time studying the law, not that they are informed or have valid opinions.
... is when SCO claims the code infringement includes unauthorized use of "//", "/*", and "*/"
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
IBM's case was dropped. No Findings of Fact, no Findings of Law, and no Remedy.
Microsoft has a Findings of Fact (They are effectively a Monopoly and they used the position to leverage themselves into another market and crush a competitor...), they have a Findings of Law (Microsoft is guilty of violations of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act...), and they have a Remedy that has been accepted by half of the States involved in the case and the DOJ.
I'd say that it's a piss-poor comparison to what IBM did in their Anti-Trust suit.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Something indeed: misuse of controlled substances.
-- Repeat with me: "There is no right to profits".
Under a number of the message postings from the SCOX message board under yahoo, I stumbled upon this little link that might be of interest to some... http://www.geocities.com/gspot_licker/AncientUnix. pdf.
The funny thing about the letter is that its dated 2002, so not too long ago when SCO made this announcement publically and openly.
-- M
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
I could have sworn I heard the Imperial March theme there for a second.
perhaps it's a stupid question, and flame me, mod and whatever
is there anybody that holds the SCO's side?
just curious
--
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
The site www.sco.com is running Apache on Linux.
--
There is no hatred more pure and true than that expressed by children.
Well I disagree. Since Darl invented this hair brained scheme, his stock has jumped to the $17 bux range, and he has managed to get $17,000,000 investment from SUN and M$ plus the royal bank of canada and another investment group (I forget the name) has invested something like $50,000,000
This is not bad for a company that was gasping for air as it slowly sank below the radar of relevancy.
---------------
Of course - I don't think they have a snow balls chance in hell of surviving this. As has been pointed out numerous times, any offending code will be pulled (if there actually is any). With IBM's financial strength, were it to turn out that IBM was actually liable (which I doubt very very much) then we would have the situation where IBM would probably do a hostile takeover - whatever the price.
SCO will not survive this. But they have gained a little breathing space for themselves.
This ruling IMHO has been a wonderful xmas present for Darl and his band of wanna be extortionists.
January 4 is going to come up really fast. I predict that within a couple weeks of that date - say by the 20th or so - anything that they have put forth will have been discredited. If so, this will give leave for a large number of open source authors to sue SCO on the grounds of SCO's copyright infringments.
One way to do this would probably be by way of a class action for the $3 billion SCO claimed against IBM.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
From the preliminary transcripts on groklaw:
Marriott: IBM can produce the Dynix code and did so as of yesterday.
IBM can also produce the derivative code, but IBM will not, unless
compelled to, provide all 40 million lines of AIX code.
K. McBride: We want all 40 million lines of code. We will
give it to our experts so they can digest it.
conjures up images, doesn't it ?
I think He'll make LOTS of friends in prison!!!
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Darl
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Last time I readed IBM was a 800 Lb Gorilla. Is that a case of american diet? I'm afraid of a butt fat gorilla fighting for linux.
IBM: We not only OWN Big Brother, but we copyrighted him, and his spawn.
Oh, and while you were busy making deals with Micro$oft, we patented the whole thing.
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
History suggests otherwise.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Their Servers are working fine, as I'm reading this; Why whine?
/.ers don't read the article anyway, so WTF?
Hell, most
Your upcoming Prison term?
You heard it here First.....
Hopefully you get a large, smelly, well-hung, Linux-loving cellmate who likes to hear skinny whiteboys squeal like a pig.
I've used unixware on several occasions, both as Novell UnixWare in the early 90's, and later SCO UnixWare, which was equally shitty.
Neither held a friggin candle to linux overall.. they had a bit more hardware support at the time, as linux was in it's infancy, but even then, I can say with confidence it was the shittiest unix I have ever used.
Yes, under the hood unixware had some neat ideas, and some potential.. but then, so does the NT kernel...
One thing that really put this whole thing in perspective was the fact that only about 15 people (other than lawyers who were arguing the case) were present in the courtroom. According to Groklaw, there were seats to be had. Most of the others in attendence were Groklaw or other Linux geeks (even had a vi vs. emacs vote for entertainment waiting for the judge to show up!). Really makes you wonder who gives a flyin'. . .
If they are determined to be trade secrets AND it is determined that IBM violated the contract by including them
-then-
IBM owes SCO a LOT of money.
Sealing the records won't mean anything.
I could be wrong, but it looks like it doesn't even take a tinfoil hat to see this one, (but I'm sure that Darl could come up with an amusing spin if it suited his ambitions.)
I can't wait until it is tossed out of court. Then, maybe then, SEC might investigate the stock manipulation going on. Between companies like SCO, and DEOs who can trust business leaders today... I would trust Dilbert first.
GrokLaw is hurting (bad), so here is another link to help them out a bit:
= News&file=article&sid=729
http://madpenguin.org/modules.php?op=modload&name
I misread that as, "...or even all of its testicles tied behind their back..."
You can mirror it without permission. You do need to provide attribution and cannot charge money for it. See the Creative Commons link at the bottom of the Groklaw website.
As for bandwidth bills, I just donated money to them yesterday. I recommend that everyone do the same.
-Hope
I have a feeling Darl's brother was responsible for that open letter of legal gibberish. Only a true believer could written such a thing.
(Reality reasserts itself sooner or later.)
Normally, this is about when the attorney sits down with the client and has a "come to Jesus" talk. Given what's going on, though, it sounds like the attorneys may have already had that talk and have decided to pull the ejection handle, especially since a quick buyout of SCO does not appear forthcoming.
will just finance (read, buy "lisences") another
company. The SCO's will never end.
Rinse. Repeat.
If information is deemed sensitive, SCO can request that the info be put under protective order and not for public consumption. The flip side of this is that a third party can pierce the protective order if they can prove that the release of the information is more in the public interest (like information about the health issues of a drug, etc.) than the harm it would do to the opposed party.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Not me. What are you guys talking about?
Now, if you could just see your way to also delivering my request about spammers,
Unfortunately, there seems to be an insufficent supply of ammunition. Seems a guy named Bush has been restocking a lot lately.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Actually, the phrase is "c'est la vie", which is French, and means, basically, "such is life" or "that's life".
No, I never took French in school. Yes, I know this to be true. Sorry, but it bugs me when people totally butcher phrases like that.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Ta taa ta ta taaa taaaaa, ta ta ta ta taaaa taaaa, ta ta ta ta taaaaa taaaa TA TA TA TA TAAAAAA.....
:)
:)
I am just imagining 40 apache assault fighters with IBM logos on each side, in attack formation, piloted by lawyers dressed "ala" agent Smith quietly traveling to SCO headquarters. All this with the "Ride of the Valkyries" playing in background.
Feels great!
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
After investing billions of dollars into researching the theft of its intellectual property, SCO produces the following source code in court:
}
According to The SCO Group's respectable CEO, Mr. Darl McBride, one million of the above lines were found in various source code files pertaining to Microsoft Windows XP, proving that the Linux community did, in fact, steal one million lines of valuable SCO intellectual property.
Mr. McBride had this to say about his discovery:
(Darl could not finish commenting because the orderlies carried him back to his padded room at this point.)The Linux source is public. If something is public, it's not a trade secret. REmember a trade secret is just that a SECRET. It means something that only your company knows. If it pecomes public, it's not a secret anymore.
The question here is copyright. If there in code in the Linux kernal that SCO has a legitimate copyright claim to. Well, copyright doesn't mean secret, so it'll be published as part of the record.
That's part of the purpose of pretrail hearings. For example in some cases the defense can request a pretrial evidence hearing. Basically it's a hearing to determine if the prosecution has sufficent evidence to even go to trial. Now it's real, real rare to see a dismissal at this level, but it can happen.
This is far different from GWD ordering the DOJ to back down. It appears to me merely that they were interested in a different penalty than a breakup.
That sure doesn't sound like GWB was ordering anyone around.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
"Don't fine me! I don't really represent these guys! See, I wasn't even there!"
"A worthy cause has never been harmed by the truth" - Gandhi
Certainly not everything for the exec bastards and lawyers that cooked up this whole thing.
Somewhere in the Carribean an island calls to them.
Sad.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
(Published on Wednesday (12/03, now an archived article at cbs.marketwatch.com, membership required.)
"A worthy cause has never been harmed by the truth" - Gandhi
All I ever hear about on slashdot is someone is
suing someone for something.
Why don't ya'll take a vacation and go to vegas
and take a tour.
Find a happy medium, get naked with a stranger.
I'm so tired of hearing about people suing
other people it makes me sick.
I feel much more comfortable knowing whether the GPL is upheld or not, rather than leaving it in limbo.
But I believe it will be upheld. I've been following some of the articles by Mogden and Lessig - and they make clear and sensible arguments why GPL is valid. You write code, or a book. Its yours. Your property. Copyright law says its yours, and no one can monkey with it without your permission. GPL grants other people that permission to monkey with it as long as they agree to the conditions laid out. In a nutshell, that's all there is to it. GPL will be upheld.
If GPL is NOT upheld, it will have dramatic ramifications as to what you can and cannot do with your own property - hah - I'd like to see a judge/jury regulate the rights of ownership!
We do not, under any circumstances, want this case thrown out.
We want a few things from this:
If the case is thrown out, SCO will go unpunnished, the GPL will look really weak or at least uneforceable, and the FUD will all go mostly unanswered. A clear shot, slam-dunk win is the only acceptable outcome to all of this.
Join Tor today!
Intriguing... Maybe speculators have been buying SCOX in expectation of a profitable settlement after the stock bombs and there is a class action mismanagement and/or securities fraud suit?
/* much faster to shit than get off pot */
winning the big lawsuit: whatever it costs to pay the lawyers.
proving your business strategy: whatever it costs to pay the lawyers.
telling the entire tech industry "don't fuck with me": priceless
The thing is, if SCO has anything thrown out of court, then the presumption will be that none of their lawsuits have merit (which would likely be true). They can sue anybody they want at that point and their stock will continute to plumet and their reputation will continue to diminish.
If SCO doesn't have some substantial for this judge by the deadline, I'm predicting this gets tossed out and the SCO drama will collapse under it's own weight. The only thing that'll prop up the SCO price is all the people selling it short rushing to buy stock to make their huge returns.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
As pointed out previously, you are wrong due to an over abundance of synicism.
A significant portion of SCOs stock market boyancy is due to projections of software licensing fees.
If SCO loses, or appears to be losing this lawsuit, the estimates of those fees will fall to zero, along with the value of SCO stock.
Beyond losing a licensing / contract dispute lawsuit against IBM, what, exactly, would you view as a major smackdown?
easy,
douglas d
This is not the end. This is not even the beginning of the end. But it may be, the end of the beginning.
Remember, we have a long way to go yet. Now, IBM can at least find out what they are accused of and trash SCO. But that is not the end.
Exercise your right not to vote. thinkoutside.org
This appears to be copied from groklaw.net, which is released under the Creative Commons License. So, where is the attribution required by that license?
no lawsuit without evidence? herecy!
Having Darl's head on a spike by the castle gates would be an excellent investment for IBM in terms of a tangible guarantee of how seriously IBM regards their customer's rights to use Linux.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
...when Darl's 4th quarter is up. My understanding is that if he keeps SCO stock up (don't recall the parameters) fo 4 consecutive quarters, he gets big dough. If SCO is as Darlcentric as it seems, he's gonna walk tall even if he never works again, to the detriment of everyone else ('cept for Boies firm).
"givashitness"
I believe the word is "givashitidity"
Well, if SCO gets stupid enough, my short-sale position in their stock should pay off big-time in a month or so. But I'm not holding my breath for that fast of a resolution - they'll do everything they can to keep delaying....
"...software patents are just like nuclear veapons - it is just too damaging so that noone really wants to use them - it would destroy everyone."
Except that software patents don't cause people to be killed en masse.
I kind of hope that everyone starts trying to enforce all of the patents that exist. Maybe it'll force some rethinking of how the patent office and patent system is implemented.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
You 70s-haired poorhouse nutsack.
Since when do you need proof to convict someone?
it was all without merit and would never stand in court. A dismissal would prove that
Let's make that a dismissal with prejudice. IANAL, but I think that would be better for IBM.
Then there's the counter-suit from IBM to consider.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
I'm sure investment funds got a bargain:
"Ooh! Ooh! Tech is on the way up, and there's a lot of these really hot American tech stocks selling. We have got to get those."
Just as Microsoft was held by investment funds during the anti-trust case, and even featured on lists of "ethically good companies". Bah. Humbug.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
Yeah, but I've been wondering WHO has enough money
to do the painting that's been going on with the
SCOX stock.
I can think of one company that has the money to
do it, and the history to imply that they are just
proud enough of their ability to flaunt the law to
try it...
I'm really hoping the SEC is all over this one,
**and** that my intuition here is right.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Not a good analogy. The RIAA has clear-cut evidence before it sends out subpeonas, and some of the best laws money can buy supporting it's position. SCO is threatening to send out invoices based a whole series of convoluted interpretations of contracts and law that know sane person would arrive at, unless their overwhelming sense of greed overrode any logic they were capable of. It's really not the same. Bzzzzt! Goobye, thanks for playing!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
The attribution is in the text of the article title and the phrase MIRROR in the title of my post you dummy.
/* DISCLAIMER
This is not legal advice. You are not a client. I'm not even an attorney. If you want legal advice, contact an attorney admitted to the bar in your jurisdiction. What I am saying here is probably 100% wrong and if you do anything based on it, you are a blitering idiot who deserves whatever bad shit is very likely to befall you.
DISCLAIMER */
Now that that's out of the way . . .
Rule 26(c) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure governs this. It provides, in pertinent part, that:
Here, the court would likely enter a protective order under one or more of those three subdivisions if SCO moves for one. The purpose is to balance IBM's right to get at discoverable information to prepare for trial with SCO's right to protect its "trade secrets" however flimsy that claim may be. Essentially, it would be saying to SCO, "Your 'proprietary' information is protected. Now, give IBM what they're asking for."
On another note,FRCP 37(b)(2)(C) allows the court to enter:
In other words, if SCO keeps this up, their case could end up getting tossed. IBM will likely clip them for attorney's fees in any case.
The bottom line is, judges do NOT like this kind of screwing around with discovery. They especially hate having to get involved by entering orders such as this one. SCO lost a lot of face with the judge here. Any intelligent attorney would be having, or have had, the proverbial "come -to-Jesus" talk a long time ago. But then, this is SCO, and it has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with smear and spin.
Are you the guy that's having a faggot relationship with Wesley FUCKING Crusher?? Shit, what are you, some kind of loser?
From that same article:
But the Justice Department did indicate that it will seek penalties first suggested by a judge earlier in the case that could affect or delay the company's soon-to-be-released Windows XP operating system.
This is far different from GWD ordering the DOJ to back down. It appears to me merely that they were interested in a different penalty than a breakup.
The official said Bush went out of his way to leave the matter in Attorney General John Ashcroft's hands.
That sure doesn't sound like GWB was ordering anyone around.
The settlement wasn't even a slap on the wrist.