I'd just like to point out, since I see a lot of posts comparing this to the coffee lawsuit, that most people don't have all the information on this.
That coffee was not just hot. It was near boiling. Do you really think that normal coffee would burn you so badly as to require major reconstructive surgery on your crotch?
Not only was it far too hot, but the lid wasn't secured as it was meant to be. It was simply set on top of the coffee cup; so if she had tried to drink from it as people do normally, it would have dumped all over her lap.. and even assuming she successfully drank from the cup, she probably would have ended up without a sense of taste for the next month or so.
I'm not saying that a little more caution couldn't have prevented this. I'm saying that the employee was COMPLETELY incompetent and should have been held at least partially responsible.
(And the warning label "Coffee is hot" was put on there after as an attempt by McD's to avoid having to pay this lawsuit. Please note also that the suit was only for the costs of her reconstructive surgery, which her insurance deemed "cosmetic". Don't ask me how having your genitalia destroyed is cosmetic, but hey, the insurance companies are pretty evil too...)
In this case, the comparison doesn't even apply.
Now that I'm done ranting about that, my two cents on EQ: I've played it on and off for the last, oh, 3 years. For some reason, I do this cycle with MMORPGs. I'll play one for about a month, it becomes too tedious, and I'll quit. Addictive? Not unless you have a mindset that applies. Maybe with NWN, I'll be addicted, but that's just because I play D&D all the time anyway:)
though I don't see how pointing a camera at a movie screen doesn't qualify as circumvention.
Well.... if you think about it, what you're doing there isn't really circumventing the protection schemes. They're all in place, the disc itself isn't being played where it shouldn't be. You're making a copy of what reaches your eyes instead of the digital data on the disc. It's somewhat of a gray area, but it makes about as much sense as the DMCA does in the first place.:P
This is obviously a troll, but I've actually met people who believe this, so I'm going to take the bait.
You're technically right. This attitude is, in some way, responsible for 9/11. The hijackers believed what they were doing was right. The Taliban believed they were right. That's not the point, though.
This attitude is ALSO responsible for the "equality" rights of the US as a whole. (I'm aware it's not actually equal, but we'll just ignore that fact, since they're SUPPOSED to work this way.) Rosa Parks didn't move. This was against the law, but obviously the law was wrong morally.
There are probably many many more that I can't think of because I'm tired...:)
First, it wouldn't be incredibly hard to develop a method by which one found a bunch of valid keys by spamming the keyserver.
Second, if you're going to say that the server itself never knows that the key going through it is actually valid, you don't need to hack the bnetd server, just the client. If the bnetd server knows if it's correct or not, then (since this is an OSS product, it's made easier) one could make their server dump all keys that came up valid to a file, and thereby harvest many many keys.
And third, as has already been pointed out, they don't care about piracy, they want to charge for b.net access. The piracy slant is a coverup.
to movies people wouldn't other wise be cought dead in
Ignoring the bad bad grammar, which I'm not nitpicking at the moment, I've often wondered about this phrase. If I were dead, I wouldn't be able to be caught. I don't MOVE. Secondly, if I died somewhere, that means either a) I died because it sucked really really bad, and I died from the massive brain damage... or b) I liked it so much that I stayed until I died. A isn't very embarrassing, and B.. well, if you liked it that much, you wouldn't care, right?
Vivendi knows it, and the EFF knows it, and it's easily made obvious by this overwhelmingly clear statement:
We have reviewed the arguments in your letter, and do not find them convincing. We continue to believe [that bnetd is] an infringement of VUG's copyrights. Those activities implicate a number of VUG's exclusive rights under copyright... etc etc.
Their response is classic, and I love their lawyer.
It would be more helpful in the future, however, if rather than summarily claiming that you believe that "the activities engaged in by www.bnetd.org" violate "a number" of your copyrights, you would state specifically what portions of the website and which particular files you believe are infringing, which of your copyrights you believe are infringed and how. We are also uncertain about the exact nature of the technological protection measure you believe has been circumvented...
The CD-Key protection isn't really a "protection measure" per se. You can install the game without using a valid key, you can even play the single-player mode (well, there IS no SP mode in the beta, but you know what I mean) without a true key. Ergo, a circumvention has only occurred if I loaded a program that caused your official server to validate my fake key.
Vivendi knows this, and that's why they're unclear about the "several copyrights" that were infringed. The copyrights were to the "for" method, the "if" statement, the "void" function type and the "main()" function, is the only thing I can see here...
But I suppose I shouldn't joke about that, or we'll have some bright guy trying to patent them, eh?
If there's something that he talking about on the phone that he doesn't want his parents hearing, it's usually something the parents need to hear.
HOLY SHIT. If my parents heard everything I said to my girlfriend... man, my stepdad picked up the phone on accident once for about five seconds and he's worried:P Of course, he's the only one that doesn't know that I've already done that, but that's not the POINT. Wait, part of this could be the fact that my mother treats me like a person instead of an idiot that needs to be watched over all the time.
That could be why she didn't throw a fit when I told her too... ya think? She leaves me alone, because she trusts me not to be an idiot. In return, I act like I'm not.
My point is, you really need to loosen up a bit. Damn. I can see this now, your son/daughter is going to ask for a phone in his/her room and you're going to say "WHY?! SO YOU CAN SET UP DRUG DEALS AND HAVE PHONE SEX?!"
Alright, maybe this was a bit ranty, but I'm tired of parents that treat their children like they're incapable of being human and independent in any way.
Actually, GPS is probably accurate to within 1m currently. Remember when it first came out? Couldn't get you pinned down to within more than 500 feet, etc etc... Two years later, we can do it within 50, or less.. Do you really think they've replaced the GPS network?
My theory (and no, it's not conspiracy, it's simple logic) is that the military uses scrambling on the signal that can be taken off by a military device. The scrambling doesn't destroy the signal entirely, simply makes it less accurate. Over the years they've made it less dense, so that's why we have GPS systems that can pinpoint to 50ft or less.
It's not a conspiracy, it's simply smart. You launch a system that can give people the ability to know where they are, you want your troops to have the upper hand with that first.
When comparing a PIII vs. Athlon, the extra electricity the Athlon uses will outweigh the price/performance benefits over several years of 24/7 use. An Athlon 1GHz draws about 70 watts. A PIII 1GHz draws about 30 watts. Do the math.
Yes, but the Athlon 1GHz is running quite a bit faster than the P3. You're not being fair; in terms of pure power, the Athlon is doing more work. And electricity is cheap.
If I have to leave my computer running 24/7 for three or more years to make buying a P3 worth it, it's NOT worth it, because in three to four years I'm going to be BUYING A NEW PC. Which means I'll be buying a NEW PROCESSOR. In which case, I'll want to spend way less on a processor that runs faster, e.g. the Athlon, or the Hammer which may be ready by that point for desktop use. Intel is NEVER the best choice for a processor. Cost/performance wise, AMD wins every time. They run hotter, sure... So use some of that money you saved and build a watercooling setup:)
I don't see how it's so addictive you'd actually have to quit. There's a limit to what you can do in a given hour, and really if you log in every hour you aren't going to gain a whole lot.
Currently, I log in about 3 times a day and spend 5-10 minutes managing my province, then bounce out. It's a game where the amount you play does directly affect how well you do, but you get major diminishing returns on the time you spend after about 20 minutes a day.
Example: You can only send four or five attacks out, and that's assuming you found targets that have defenses low enough that you can break them with the troops you have four times. Remembering that the troops you send will therefore not be defending your province for the next real-time day or so.. and all this is is running the information from that province through your formatter and deciding how much you need to send to break them.
So you're a mage. You have a limit: number of runes you have, or amount of mana. Cast enough spells and you can't cast anymore for at least an hour - and an hour's regeneration gets you maybe two more spells.
Thieves? Just stealth... but you lose thieves if you fail, and sometimes even if you succeed. And you have "mana" too... a limited number of operations, and the more you attempt the less effective you'll be. You'll need to spend money to train new thieves, but first you have to wait for the soldiers to be drafted from your population, which requires realtime too - and money, which, surprise, takes realtime to be earned.
So there's not much point to playing this game more than, say, a half an hour a day... Even given that, it's a great game, and I suggest you check it out. Utopia Have fun:)
I in fact submitted this story when I got that email.. and of course it was rejected:P Anyway, this is such a wonderful marketing technique...
The question is, does the bad PR they get for it outweigh the fact that they're probably losing blood fast from such services as GoDaddy? I mean... 8 bucks a year per domain, if you supply your own DNS. Just... damn.:P
Just so many bad puns with that name... anyway.. In today's resolution ICANN says that it "is not persuaded that global elections are the only or the best means of achieving meaningful public representation or the informed participation of Internet users in the ICANN process"
...What? So suggest something that is. OF COURSE it's not the ONLY, probably not the BEST, but unless you suggest something BETTER, let's go with this one. I personally think a global Internet election would be perfect for this. You'd have to find some way to make it secure against kiddies bombing the votes one way or the other, but I'd say that'd count as "informed participation of Internet users in the ICANN process."
Except they won't do that. They just want to be gods on the Internet... "NO DOMAIN FOR YOU!" Egh..
Though some might say that Square is just turning out regurgitated crapola with the FF series (we won't mention Chrono Cross, PLEASE no...) it'll be a welcome change from PSO as the only MMORPG on a console.
Also, this does open up the ability for Square to bring in the old FF games... and.. mm, ChronoTrigger for GBA anyone? *drool*
Really, the argument between GCN and Xbox owners just got a little more one-sided with this announcement...
There is more to life than being stuck in a bland, empty life with lots of money.
There's also more to life than lots of sex, you know... A point YOU fail to grasp.
Maybe he found the woman he loved, the "One", as it were. He's supposed to ignore her and go after a bunch of other meaningless relationships? You seem to measure worth in terms of how much sex you can get. Personally, I think the life you describe is also quite bland - sex isn't the ONLY form of fulfillment.
On the other hand, it IS the only reason we as a race exist (to reproduce) and all other actions are secondary to that goal. Doesn't mean that there's nothing else, though...
Gawd, someone mod this idiot down... Preferably a female:P
A Part Manager is a more abstract object whose task is to handle the activation and the deactivation of the Parts.... Stand-alone viewers, which embed only their own part, don't need a Part Manager.
So in other words, a Part Manager is like a wife. *rimshot*
Let me be the first to stand up as a proud, intellegent, and critical listener of country music.
The problem is, he IS the first to stand up as such....
Just think if this was a rap cd and you said "do you really think anyone who listens to rap is smart enough to encode it on their computer", people would be all over you.
Nah... we'd agree.. In fact there are scientific studies that say rap makes you dumber:)
As another post pointed out, there isn't any regulation on where, how, or how large the marking has to be.
It could just be a little logo where the CDDA logo is on many CDs now... The point, of course, is that Joe Sixpack doesn't examine everything he buys for little wording, especially when it comes to CDs.
Whereas those of us who were pushing for this don't have to look for it - most don't buy CDs anyway.
'course, the RIAA is a bunch of idiots anyway.. What're they going to do next? Scramble the music such that it can't be heard out of the analog out port on a CD player? Hell, you can plug that bad boy into a PC and record it with Goldwave! CRAP! Gotta get rid of that!:P
I'd personally say that you waived your 5th amendment rights when you called me. By calling me, and talking to me in any way, you "testified" to me - therefore losing your rights for the purposes of that conversation.
And as a side note, I wouldn't consider email OR IMs (though IM is less so) a phone conversation. email is stored in my inbox until I decide to look at it; to a lesser extent so are IMs. emails are stored in my inbox even AFTER the fact; the same does not apply to a phone conversation.
And it's said in the article that they did not intercept the emails, but simply got them after the fact, so they didn't tap wires..
AFAIK, over here anyway, most of the networks put their logos in some way transparent, so it has this cool embossed-into-the-show effect. You don't even really notice it unless you look for it.
If they were opaque, however, I could see the problem - but I wonder if the advertisers have something to do with this as well. Perhaps they ask that the networks show that it's THEM they got the advertising from.. don't have a clue why this would be an issue, but we've seen dumber:)
Slashdot Mirror
I'd just like to point out, since I see a lot of posts comparing this to the coffee lawsuit, that most people don't have all the information on this.
:)
That coffee was not just hot. It was near boiling. Do you really think that normal coffee would burn you so badly as to require major reconstructive surgery on your crotch?
Not only was it far too hot, but the lid wasn't secured as it was meant to be. It was simply set on top of the coffee cup; so if she had tried to drink from it as people do normally, it would have dumped all over her lap.. and even assuming she successfully drank from the cup, she probably would have ended up without a sense of taste for the next month or so.
I'm not saying that a little more caution couldn't have prevented this. I'm saying that the employee was COMPLETELY incompetent and should have been held at least partially responsible.
(And the warning label "Coffee is hot" was put on there after as an attempt by McD's to avoid having to pay this lawsuit. Please note also that the suit was only for the costs of her reconstructive surgery, which her insurance deemed "cosmetic". Don't ask me how having your genitalia destroyed is cosmetic, but hey, the insurance companies are pretty evil too...)
In this case, the comparison doesn't even apply.
Now that I'm done ranting about that, my two cents on EQ: I've played it on and off for the last, oh, 3 years. For some reason, I do this cycle with MMORPGs. I'll play one for about a month, it becomes too tedious, and I'll quit. Addictive? Not unless you have a mindset that applies. Maybe with NWN, I'll be addicted, but that's just because I play D&D all the time anyway
though I don't see how pointing a camera at a movie screen doesn't qualify as circumvention.
:P
Well.... if you think about it, what you're doing there isn't really circumventing the protection schemes. They're all in place, the disc itself isn't being played where it shouldn't be. You're making a copy of what reaches your eyes instead of the digital data on the disc. It's somewhat of a gray area, but it makes about as much sense as the DMCA does in the first place.
this kind of attitude is responsible for 9/11....
:)
This is obviously a troll, but I've actually met people who believe this, so I'm going to take the bait.
You're technically right. This attitude is, in some way, responsible for 9/11. The hijackers believed what they were doing was right. The Taliban believed they were right. That's not the point, though.
This attitude is ALSO responsible for the "equality" rights of the US as a whole. (I'm aware it's not actually equal, but we'll just ignore that fact, since they're SUPPOSED to work this way.) Rosa Parks didn't move. This was against the law, but obviously the law was wrong morally.
There are probably many many more that I can't think of because I'm tired...
And again, you have the problem of a client that can simply ignore the keyserver, and when bnetd asks, "Didja activate?" "Sure! Let me in!"
:P
Without proof, either way, you're screwed. With proof, you're insecure.
Maybe an encrypted version of the CD key... but then you'd still be able to log them and figure it out eventually
Three issues with this.
First, it wouldn't be incredibly hard to develop a method by which one found a bunch of valid keys by spamming the keyserver.
Second, if you're going to say that the server itself never knows that the key going through it is actually valid, you don't need to hack the bnetd server, just the client. If the bnetd server knows if it's correct or not, then (since this is an OSS product, it's made easier) one could make their server dump all keys that came up valid to a file, and thereby harvest many many keys.
And third, as has already been pointed out, they don't care about piracy, they want to charge for b.net access. The piracy slant is a coverup.
One really does wonder if Blizzard knows what's going on here, or if it was just a bored lawyer at Vivendi looking for something to do one day.
You're right, bnetd doesn't support WC3 - and the bnetd fork that does was maintained by Warforge, who took it off their site in response to this.
Trigger-happy lawyer, I think.
to movies people wouldn't other wise be cought dead in
.. well, if you liked it that much, you wouldn't care, right?
Ignoring the bad bad grammar, which I'm not nitpicking at the moment, I've often wondered about this phrase. If I were dead, I wouldn't be able to be caught. I don't MOVE. Secondly, if I died somewhere, that means either a) I died because it sucked really really bad, and I died from the massive brain damage... or b) I liked it so much that I stayed until I died. A isn't very embarrassing, and B
:P
Vivendi knows it, and the EFF knows it, and it's easily made obvious by this overwhelmingly clear statement:
We have reviewed the arguments in your letter, and do not find them convincing. We continue to believe [that bnetd is] an infringement of VUG's copyrights. Those activities implicate a number of VUG's exclusive rights under copyright... etc etc.
Their response is classic, and I love their lawyer.
It would be more helpful in the future, however, if rather than summarily claiming that you believe that "the activities engaged in by www.bnetd.org" violate "a number" of your copyrights, you would state specifically what portions of the website and which particular files you believe are infringing, which of your copyrights you believe are infringed and how. We are also uncertain about the exact nature of the technological protection measure you believe has been circumvented...
The CD-Key protection isn't really a "protection measure" per se. You can install the game without using a valid key, you can even play the single-player mode (well, there IS no SP mode in the beta, but you know what I mean) without a true key. Ergo, a circumvention has only occurred if I loaded a program that caused your official server to validate my fake key.
Vivendi knows this, and that's why they're unclear about the "several copyrights" that were infringed. The copyrights were to the "for" method, the "if" statement, the "void" function type and the "main()" function, is the only thing I can see here...
But I suppose I shouldn't joke about that, or we'll have some bright guy trying to patent them, eh?
Bah. I find this highly amusing....
Well, the entirety of /., I swear, will immediately start yelling at you if you sound at all like you're saying there's a conspiracy...
:)
Either that or agree with you. Which is scarier, I don't know.
If there's something that he talking about on the phone that he doesn't want his parents hearing, it's usually something the parents need to hear.
:P Of course, he's the only one that doesn't know that I've already done that, but that's not the POINT. Wait, part of this could be the fact that my mother treats me like a person instead of an idiot that needs to be watched over all the time.
HOLY SHIT. If my parents heard everything I said to my girlfriend... man, my stepdad picked up the phone on accident once for about five seconds and he's worried
That could be why she didn't throw a fit when I told her too... ya think? She leaves me alone, because she trusts me not to be an idiot. In return, I act like I'm not.
My point is, you really need to loosen up a bit. Damn. I can see this now, your son/daughter is going to ask for a phone in his/her room and you're going to say "WHY?! SO YOU CAN SET UP DRUG DEALS AND HAVE PHONE SEX?!"
Alright, maybe this was a bit ranty, but I'm tired of parents that treat their children like they're incapable of being human and independent in any way.
Actually, GPS is probably accurate to within 1m currently. Remember when it first came out? Couldn't get you pinned down to within more than 500 feet, etc etc... Two years later, we can do it within 50, or less.. Do you really think they've replaced the GPS network?
My theory (and no, it's not conspiracy, it's simple logic) is that the military uses scrambling on the signal that can be taken off by a military device. The scrambling doesn't destroy the signal entirely, simply makes it less accurate. Over the years they've made it less dense, so that's why we have GPS systems that can pinpoint to 50ft or less.
It's not a conspiracy, it's simply smart. You launch a system that can give people the ability to know where they are, you want your troops to have the upper hand with that first.
When comparing a PIII vs. Athlon, the extra electricity the Athlon uses will outweigh the price/performance benefits over several years of 24/7 use. An Athlon 1GHz draws about 70 watts. A PIII 1GHz draws about 30 watts. Do the math.
:)
Yes, but the Athlon 1GHz is running quite a bit faster than the P3. You're not being fair; in terms of pure power, the Athlon is doing more work. And electricity is cheap.
If I have to leave my computer running 24/7 for three or more years to make buying a P3 worth it, it's NOT worth it, because in three to four years I'm going to be BUYING A NEW PC. Which means I'll be buying a NEW PROCESSOR. In which case, I'll want to spend way less on a processor that runs faster, e.g. the Athlon, or the Hammer which may be ready by that point for desktop use. Intel is NEVER the best choice for a processor. Cost/performance wise, AMD wins every time. They run hotter, sure... So use some of that money you saved and build a watercooling setup
HA! My Enchanted Motorcycle Runeloremaster OWNS YOU!!! My character Bah to all!
:P
Of course, I haven't had it running for about 5 days... so I've lost about 700 places in the standings.. Bleh.
I don't see how it's so addictive you'd actually have to quit. There's a limit to what you can do in a given hour, and really if you log in every hour you aren't going to gain a whole lot.
:)
Currently, I log in about 3 times a day and spend 5-10 minutes managing my province, then bounce out. It's a game where the amount you play does directly affect how well you do, but you get major diminishing returns on the time you spend after about 20 minutes a day.
Example: You can only send four or five attacks out, and that's assuming you found targets that have defenses low enough that you can break them with the troops you have four times. Remembering that the troops you send will therefore not be defending your province for the next real-time day or so.. and all this is is running the information from that province through your formatter and deciding how much you need to send to break them.
So you're a mage. You have a limit: number of runes you have, or amount of mana. Cast enough spells and you can't cast anymore for at least an hour - and an hour's regeneration gets you maybe two more spells.
Thieves? Just stealth... but you lose thieves if you fail, and sometimes even if you succeed. And you have "mana" too... a limited number of operations, and the more you attempt the less effective you'll be. You'll need to spend money to train new thieves, but first you have to wait for the soldiers to be drafted from your population, which requires realtime too - and money, which, surprise, takes realtime to be earned.
So there's not much point to playing this game more than, say, a half an hour a day... Even given that, it's a great game, and I suggest you check it out. Utopia Have fun
Or combine them, everyone adding something... And the cast of MST3k would be some 100 :P
I'd actually pay for a DVD then... rather than Netflix'ing them...
I in fact submitted this story when I got that email.. and of course it was rejected :P Anyway, this is such a wonderful marketing technique...
:P
The question is, does the bad PR they get for it outweigh the fact that they're probably losing blood fast from such services as GoDaddy? I mean... 8 bucks a year per domain, if you supply your own DNS. Just... damn.
Just so many bad puns with that name... anyway..
In today's resolution ICANN says that it "is not persuaded that global elections are the only or the best means of achieving meaningful public representation or the informed participation of Internet users in the ICANN process"
...What? So suggest something that is. OF COURSE it's not the ONLY, probably not the BEST, but unless you suggest something BETTER, let's go with this one. I personally think a global Internet election would be perfect for this. You'd have to find some way to make it secure against kiddies bombing the votes one way or the other, but I'd say that'd count as "informed participation of Internet users in the ICANN process."
Except they won't do that. They just want to be gods on the Internet... "NO DOMAIN FOR YOU!" Egh..
Though some might say that Square is just turning out regurgitated crapola with the FF series (we won't mention Chrono Cross, PLEASE no...) it'll be a welcome change from PSO as the only MMORPG on a console.
Also, this does open up the ability for Square to bring in the old FF games... and.. mm, ChronoTrigger for GBA anyone? *drool*
Really, the argument between GCN and Xbox owners just got a little more one-sided with this announcement...
There is more to life than being stuck in a bland, empty life with lots of money.
:P
There's also more to life than lots of sex, you know... A point YOU fail to grasp.
Maybe he found the woman he loved, the "One", as it were. He's supposed to ignore her and go after a bunch of other meaningless relationships? You seem to measure worth in terms of how much sex you can get. Personally, I think the life you describe is also quite bland - sex isn't the ONLY form of fulfillment.
On the other hand, it IS the only reason we as a race exist (to reproduce) and all other actions are secondary to that goal. Doesn't mean that there's nothing else, though...
Gawd, someone mod this idiot down... Preferably a female
A Part Manager is a more abstract object whose task is to handle the activation and the deactivation of the Parts. ... Stand-alone viewers, which embed only their own part, don't need a Part Manager.
So in other words, a Part Manager is like a wife.
*rimshot*
The problem is, he IS the first to stand up as such....
Nah... we'd agree.. In fact there are scientific studies that say rap makes you dumber
As another post pointed out, there isn't any regulation on where, how, or how large the marking has to be.
:P
It could just be a little logo where the CDDA logo is on many CDs now... The point, of course, is that Joe Sixpack doesn't examine everything he buys for little wording, especially when it comes to CDs.
Whereas those of us who were pushing for this don't have to look for it - most don't buy CDs anyway.
'course, the RIAA is a bunch of idiots anyway.. What're they going to do next? Scramble the music such that it can't be heard out of the analog out port on a CD player? Hell, you can plug that bad boy into a PC and record it with Goldwave! CRAP! Gotta get rid of that!
I'd personally say that you waived your 5th amendment rights when you called me. By calling me, and talking to me in any way, you "testified" to me - therefore losing your rights for the purposes of that conversation.
And as a side note, I wouldn't consider email OR IMs (though IM is less so) a phone conversation. email is stored in my inbox until I decide to look at it; to a lesser extent so are IMs. emails are stored in my inbox even AFTER the fact; the same does not apply to a phone conversation.
And it's said in the article that they did not intercept the emails, but simply got them after the fact, so they didn't tap wires..
Just my $1.98...
Thank god that I don't watch CN anymore... why, when you can just use Netflix? :P
AFAIK, over here anyway, most of the networks put their logos in some way transparent, so it has this cool embossed-into-the-show effect. You don't even really notice it unless you look for it.
:)
If they were opaque, however, I could see the problem - but I wonder if the advertisers have something to do with this as well. Perhaps they ask that the networks show that it's THEM they got the advertising from.. don't have a clue why this would be an issue, but we've seen dumber