Well although you couldn't tell it here on slashdot 1) The gnome and kde developers arn't arch enemies. 2) Distros that want more users want both desktops.
What does this mean? A lot of colaberation, quite a bit through freedeskop.org. Little things like all my gnome apps now show up in the kde start menu without any effort on my part are a big deal (and vice versa). Everyone understands that the better the two desktops behave together (not code wise, but behavior wise) the more the user wins.
One neat project which I don't think (might be wrong) anyone is working on right now is a common icon set. When gnome or kde load up the icon "cut" it should be the same. Help create an icon set (without a slant to the current gnome or kde) and then get it in freedesktop.org and I bet you that distros would adopt it. If you are interested in helping with this or other colaberation projects head over to freedesktop.org.
Some other ones that would be nice to have: -A common bookmark and cookie storage standard (way to many browsers these days) -Along with a common icon set, a standard for the default toolbar format (size, and with or without text and text placement)
Down the road expect distros to be less and less KDE or Gnome only.
Planning to plunk down some money soon and what I want to know is:
What is the best video card you can get that works in Linux that *doesn't* require binary drivers?
I don't perticularly care to be locked into one kernel if given the option.
-Benjamin Meyer
Yes, five minute after making the post I thought to add a little anendem that it really only applies to little home grown type apps (but away from the internet the rest of the day). Stuff that you are selling to primarily run on solaris boxes anyway is different, in that case the reason you are primarily on Solaris isn't why would would distribute Linux binaries (hw stability etc).
Just like with MS and OS/2 people will now make apps for Linux that oh yah work on Solaris not the other way around. As a developer it is a pretty easy choice to make and as we all know it is all about developers developers developers...
I had a video card that was a little unstable because some water got on it while running. It would work for about an hour at a time. After that I had to put it in a zip lock bag and freeze it in the freezer to cool it down enough to run. This was repeated for a few weeks till I got money to get another video card (at school at the time, no money)
When the 300a's first came out there was a doc up online that told you how you could modify it to go dual. The only kicker was that you had to drill part way through the chip and soder some wires on it, etc. I only had the guts to modify one of the chips and bought a single board to run with the modified chip. It still worked happily.
A few years later that board I accidently plugged in the floppy power backwards (cable with no tab to stop me). When the power came on sparks, fire galore! Where the floppy connection on the mb there was a nice black ring and the floppy drive smelled really bad. Both floppy drive and floppy controller never worked again, and for the most part the system worked, but a little unstable. I finally replaced it last year.
For several years I had a 486 running as a server who's tabs that hold in the ram were broken. To make the ram stay in place I used tape which after a year or warmth isn't sticky anymore and the ram falls over at which point things would act funny until the tape was replaced. This box is still sitting under my bed to be junked/given away after being decommissioned just a few months ago.
The company I currently work for (Symbol) takes a bit of pride in making rugged scanners. So if it was a Symbol scanner I wouldn't find that very extraordinary. They have all sorts of setups downstairs to test and make sure that their hardware can withstand all sorts of punches and still keep working.
Well in all my tests of compiling software using multiple computers the network did have a difference, but only in two cases. The first case was if it was slower then 100 (say 10 or 2). If you were using 100 or 1000 you were fine. The second cases was if you only had one nic in the server and had some large number of nodes (50 was the most I tested with and it was still ok). As more computers were connected you get more and more collisions, but even this can be resolved just by putting the computers on different networks and adding more nics to the host computer.
So having 10000 speed network would be cool network compiling is here and network speed improvments will be little in comparision to moving to better build systems that can build in parallel (vs autoconf which does it directory based)
You can check out my full article here: http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/articles/o ptimizi ng_distcc.php
I like the idea of creating a HIG certification program of sort, but not for Gnome, but for all of the Unix/Linux desktop. Why? If you have a Gnome certification then of course core Gnome gnome apps will strive to be compliant and so will some others, but it wont really go farther than that.
Maybe start a freedesktop.org project. This way open office, KDE, Gnome, SDL, wine (hehe), and other applications will be interested in making sure that their applications are compliant. It will probably be harder, but the payoff will be a hundred times better. Not only will you get Gnome apps all interacting with each other, but you will have all the rest of the Linux/BSD/Unix apps working alone side nicely.
Another reason why this would be a good freedeskop.org project is because all of the other work that is being done there. Stuff like making sure your application uses the standard desktop icon names when referencing icons (so either Gnome or KDE icon sets work in both KDE and Gnome apps).
Having a little list of current compliment HIG applications would be a major incentive for apps to get on that list too. Maybe it would even spawn a little compitition about keeping/getting all of their apps (kde/gnome/etc) compliant.
And of course EVERY vendor out there upgraded the moment MS said jump right? think again. There are still ones out there evaluating 4.0. And when they finally do move you will be lucky if they ever release an update for your old hardware... only the new stuff get it.
Rather than making expensive gelatin molds just use a stick of gum. They retain the ridges and hold moisture (if the device requires electrical conduction).
As with everything in life the hardest part is the first step. Getting users to play with this Linux thing is much easier with Knoppix. People who I interact with all the time, but never wished to try Linux were willing to give Knoppix a try. Ok so maybe they don't switch the next day, but a month later when they need a tool that they saw in Knoppix they give it another whirl or when someone else talks about Linux they think... "Yah I used that, it wasn't hard... I like Linux". Maybe when they get an extra computer they decide to load Linux on it. All because you gave them a Knoppix disk.
It is a great simple way to let management play with Linux too. Where in the management world of MSOutlook and MSProject they can't load Linux on their box, but they can give Knoppix a whirl on *their* box and play with it on their own. Then when you want to use Linux for your next project they are more likely to let you because it is something they have used and doesn't seem so foreign.
It might surprise you the number of people who want to play around with Linux, but just haven't yet. I put up a small note that I was giving away Knoppix disks for free at work. I have given away (averaging two) a day for the last month. Try it at your work and see what happens. You might be surprised at whom is interested in playing with Linux.
No, more like those higher up will see the real problem and move the group management over there too. Or even start a whole office over there... oh wait a lot of companies already have done that. Yes the group outsourcing probably wont last, but having branches will.
-Benjamin Meyer
My 04 Infiniti G35 came with a navigation system that offers a birds eye view which I find more appealing. I am able to much more quickly grasp where I am and where I am going. Although not the best photo (google image search for better ones) here is one:
here
Just curious, but what website do you use that Konqueror doesn't work at all with that would require you downloading firefox in knoppix every time? I have been using Konqueror for my main browser for quite a long time without any problems. It certainly handles things just fine especially for instances when you are doing quick knoppix booting...
Something I personally look for and most of the time isn't included in any reviews I was presently surprised to find in anandtech's review a Quake compile test!
It doesn't specify what compiler or platform was used, but at the bare minimum it gives a little glimpse of what you might be able to achieve. Now all you have to do is apply that to a price/performance graph to determine what and how many you want to buy.
I have a small box running 24/7. It doesn't do much, but it still needs to run 24/7. I have been using a Via C3 for over a year now with very happy results. The only downside being that a 800Mhz C3 is well... slow. Now to be able to put a AMD at twice the speed (4x the performance?) and still use that level of power is fantastic and I will be first in line to check these out. At 6W Fanless CPU heatsinks are a reality. Compined with a good case and a quiet hard drive and you have a little box you can run 24/7 without worrying about power or noise.
I wonder how long after it is released a Script/app comes out that when given disk 1 (DoomIII) and disk 2 (Knoppix) it will give you an iso that you can burn and then boot straight into DoomIII under Linux without anything else running for maximum performance without the hassle of installing Linux.
Incorrect! It Hyperthreading is turned on in the bios, XP wont install on a quad box because it is a "license violation" stating that only four cpu's are supported.
I took the test the first year it was C++ and got a 5 out of 5 points on it, but when I got to school they gave me 2 credits (i.e. almost nothing) for it. It was a real let down putting all that effort into it and getting so little (scholasticly) in return. Of course knowing C++ while still in high school and being able to explore compsci on my own I think very valuable.
They mentioned that they had trouble locking down the system. I am surprised that they didn't use KDE and its kiosk mode. It allows you to specify any setting in any kde application and lock it down so users can't change it. There is even a GUI tool in beta right now that lets set and lock the settings.
How about doing what KDE has been doing for years? When I log out of my KDE user account or I reboot all of the applications that were open when I left start up when I log back in. Even better applications like Konq even load the tabs/websites back up! If OS X is all about consistency then this feature will be there soon. How about your editor loading up the file that you were working on when you quit? How about your terminal loading up the tabs and even the directories you were in when you left!
What about Java and Motif and XForms and Qt2 and Qt3 and gtk1 and gtk2 and mono and the dozens of other widget toolkits outthere that all load into ram? What about the SuperSweetNextGen toolkit that everyone will love that is coming out in three years? Get over it. Consolidation will never ever happen. The best that could occur is that they will look and feel the same to the user which although easier then what you suggest will still take a bit of work. On windows and osx they have tons of toolkits, but they all look (close to) the same. This is what Linux needs to do, not bicker about what one is better.
Some other more or less useless data points: My Indy (running gentoo) with 128MB has 256MB swap, which has been enough. I probably could have gotten away with 128MB but believe it or not my primary concern is whether I'll be able to compile some of the biggest C++ programs without the larger amount of swap. Certainly 128MB will not do it, even when you are booted from the gentoo installer CD and there's nothing much running.
Just an interesting tidbit here. Using knoppixDistcc on a box it rarely goes above 64MB so you should be fine with 128 if you used it in such a way (distcc on that box).
-Benjamin Meyer
Slashdot Mirror
Well although you couldn't tell it here on slashdot
1) The gnome and kde developers arn't arch enemies.
2) Distros that want more users want both desktops.
What does this mean? A lot of colaberation, quite a bit through freedeskop.org. Little things like all my gnome apps now show up in the kde start menu without any effort on my part are a big deal (and vice versa). Everyone understands that the better the two desktops behave together (not code wise, but behavior wise) the more the user wins.
One neat project which I don't think (might be wrong) anyone is working on right now is a common icon set. When gnome or kde load up the icon "cut" it should be the same. Help create an icon set (without a slant to the current gnome or kde) and then get it in freedesktop.org and I bet you that distros would adopt it. If you are interested in helping with this or other colaberation projects head over to freedesktop.org.
Some other ones that would be nice to have:
-A common bookmark and cookie storage standard (way to many browsers these days)
-Along with a common icon set, a standard for the default toolbar format (size, and with or without text and text placement)
Down the road expect distros to be less and less KDE or Gnome only.
-Benjamin Meyer
Planning to plunk down some money soon and what I want to know is: What is the best video card you can get that works in Linux that *doesn't* require binary drivers? I don't perticularly care to be locked into one kernel if given the option. -Benjamin Meyer
You could make a neat security system will only work when "heated" and solid otherwise it wont let you in.
Yes, five minute after making the post I thought to add a little anendem that it really only applies to little home grown type apps (but away from the internet the rest of the day). Stuff that you are selling to primarily run on solaris boxes anyway is different, in that case the reason you are primarily on Solaris isn't why would would distribute Linux binaries (hw stability etc).
-Benjamin Meyer
Just like with MS and OS/2 people will now make apps for Linux that oh yah work on Solaris not the other way around. As a developer it is a pretty easy choice to make and as we all know it is all about developers developers developers...
-Benjamin Meyer
I had a video card that was a little unstable because some water got on it while running. It would work for about an hour at a time. After that I had to put it in a zip lock bag and freeze it in the freezer to cool it down enough to run. This was repeated for a few weeks till I got money to get another video card (at school at the time, no money)
When the 300a's first came out there was a doc up online that told you how you could modify it to go dual. The only kicker was that you had to drill part way through the chip and soder some wires on it, etc. I only had the guts to modify one of the chips and bought a single board to run with the modified chip. It still worked happily.
A few years later that board I accidently plugged in the floppy power backwards (cable with no tab to stop me). When the power came on sparks, fire galore! Where the floppy connection on the mb there was a nice black ring and the floppy drive smelled really bad. Both floppy drive and floppy controller never worked again, and for the most part the system worked, but a little unstable. I finally replaced it last year.
For several years I had a 486 running as a server who's tabs that hold in the ram were broken. To make the ram stay in place I used tape which after a year or warmth isn't sticky anymore and the ram falls over at which point things would act funny until the tape was replaced. This box is still sitting under my bed to be junked/given away after being decommissioned just a few months ago.
The company I currently work for (Symbol) takes a bit of pride in making rugged scanners. So if it was a Symbol scanner I wouldn't find that very extraordinary. They have all sorts of setups downstairs to test and make sure that their hardware can withstand all sorts of punches and still keep working.
-Benjamin Meyer
Well in all my tests of compiling software using multiple computers the network did have a difference, but only in two cases. The first case was if it was slower then 100 (say 10 or 2). If you were using 100 or 1000 you were fine. The second cases was if you only had one nic in the server and had some large number of nodes (50 was the most I tested with and it was still ok). As more computers were connected you get more and more collisions, but even this can be resolved just by putting the computers on different networks and adding more nics to the host computer.
o ptimizi ng_distcc.php
So having 10000 speed network would be cool network compiling is here and network speed improvments will be little in comparision to moving to better build systems that can build in parallel (vs autoconf which does it directory based)
You can check out my full article here:
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/articles/
-Benjamin Meyer
I like the idea of creating a HIG certification program of sort, but not for Gnome, but for all of the Unix/Linux desktop. Why? If you have a Gnome certification then of course core Gnome gnome apps will strive to be compliant and so will some others, but it wont really go farther than that.
Maybe start a freedesktop.org project. This way open office, KDE, Gnome, SDL, wine (hehe), and other applications will be interested in making sure that their applications are compliant. It will probably be harder, but the payoff will be a hundred times better. Not only will you get Gnome apps all interacting with each other, but you will have all the rest of the Linux/BSD/Unix apps working alone side nicely.
Another reason why this would be a good freedeskop.org project is because all of the other work that is being done there. Stuff like making sure your application uses the standard desktop icon names when referencing icons (so either Gnome or KDE icon sets work in both KDE and Gnome apps).
Having a little list of current compliment HIG applications would be a major incentive for apps to get on that list too. Maybe it would even spawn a little compitition about keeping/getting all of their apps (kde/gnome/etc) compliant.
-Benjamin Meyer
And of course EVERY vendor out there upgraded the moment MS said jump right? think again. There are still ones out there evaluating 4.0. And when they finally do move you will be lucky if they ever release an update for your old hardware... only the new stuff get it.
-Benjamin Meyer
It is a great simple way to let management play with Linux too. Where in the management world of MSOutlook and MSProject they can't load Linux on their box, but they can give Knoppix a whirl on *their* box and play with it on their own. Then when you want to use Linux for your next project they are more likely to let you because it is something they have used and doesn't seem so foreign.
It might surprise you the number of people who want to play around with Linux, but just haven't yet. I put up a small note that I was giving away Knoppix disks for free at work. I have given away (averaging two) a day for the last month. Try it at your work and see what happens. You might be surprised at whom is interested in playing with Linux.
-Benjamin Meyer
No, more like those higher up will see the real problem and move the group management over there too. Or even start a whole office over there... oh wait a lot of companies already have done that. Yes the group outsourcing probably wont last, but having branches will. -Benjamin Meyer
-Benjamin Meyer
Just curious, but what website do you use that Konqueror doesn't work at all with that would require you downloading firefox in knoppix every time? I have been using Konqueror for my main browser for quite a long time without any problems. It certainly handles things just fine especially for instances when you are doing quick knoppix booting...
-Benjamin Meyer
P.S. Oh and it can save to a USB keychain.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2065&p =12
It doesn't specify what compiler or platform was used, but at the bare minimum it gives a little glimpse of what you might be able to achieve. Now all you have to do is apply that to a price/performance graph to determine what and how many you want to buy.
-Benjamin Meyer
I have a small box running 24/7. It doesn't do much, but it still needs to run 24/7. I have been using a Via C3 for over a year now with very happy results. The only downside being that a 800Mhz C3 is well... slow. Now to be able to put a AMD at twice the speed (4x the performance?) and still use that level of power is fantastic and I will be first in line to check these out. At 6W Fanless CPU heatsinks are a reality. Compined with a good case and a quiet hard drive and you have a little box you can run 24/7 without worrying about power or noise.
-Benjamin Meyer
Has anyone done any compiling tests? If so PLEASE share! -Benjamin Meyer
I wonder how long after it is released a Script/app comes out that when given disk 1 (DoomIII) and disk 2 (Knoppix) it will give you an iso that you can burn and then boot straight into DoomIII under Linux without anything else running for maximum performance without the hassle of installing Linux.
-Benjamin Meyer
Incorrect! It Hyperthreading is turned on in the bios, XP wont install on a quad box because it is a "license violation" stating that only four cpu's are supported.
-Benjamin Meyer
I took the test the first year it was C++ and got a 5 out of 5 points on it, but when I got to school they gave me 2 credits (i.e. almost nothing) for it. It was a real let down putting all that effort into it and getting so little (scholasticly) in return. Of course knowing C++ while still in high school and being able to explore compsci on my own I think very valuable.
-Benjamin Meyer
They mentioned that they had trouble locking down the system. I am surprised that they didn't use KDE and its kiosk mode. It allows you to specify any setting in any kde application and lock it down so users can't change it. There is even a GUI tool in beta right now that lets set and lock the settings.
-Benjamin Meyer
How about doing what KDE has been doing for years? When I log out of my KDE user account or I reboot all of the applications that were open when I left start up when I log back in. Even better applications like Konq even load the tabs/websites back up! If OS X is all about consistency then this feature will be there soon. How about your editor loading up the file that you were working on when you quit? How about your terminal loading up the tabs and even the directories you were in when you left!
-Benjamin Meyer
What about Java and Motif and XForms and Qt2 and Qt3 and gtk1 and gtk2 and mono and the dozens of other widget toolkits outthere that all load into ram? What about the SuperSweetNextGen toolkit that everyone will love that is coming out in three years? Get over it. Consolidation will never ever happen. The best that could occur is that they will look and feel the same to the user which although easier then what you suggest will still take a bit of work. On windows and osx they have tons of toolkits, but they all look (close to) the same. This is what Linux needs to do, not bicker about what one is better.
-Benjamin Meyer
Some other more or less useless data points: My Indy (running gentoo) with 128MB has 256MB swap, which has been enough. I probably could have gotten away with 128MB but believe it or not my primary concern is whether I'll be able to compile some of the biggest C++ programs without the larger amount of swap. Certainly 128MB will not do it, even when you are booted from the gentoo installer CD and there's nothing much running. Just an interesting tidbit here. Using knoppixDistcc on a box it rarely goes above 64MB so you should be fine with 128 if you used it in such a way (distcc on that box). -Benjamin Meyer