That much I know for certain. I saw the Merkey article, and I saw the white-washed article.
Somebody on the yahoo scox message boards, who claimed to Merkey, and certainly seemed to be Merkey; bragged about having the negative information removed, in exchange for a "donation" and for Merkey dropping his harassment lawsuit.
Just look at the job ads. Often a mid-level job requires dozens of different skills - and no two jobs are alike.
For example: what is a sysadmin, what skill do they have? What do they do?
I have been interviewing lately: at one place, the job turned out to be all about database development. At another, the job was all about software configuration management. At another, the job was all about disaster recovery planning. There is never much similarity between the actual job requirements, and the job that is advertised.
And please don't give me that "soft skills" crap. Because that only proves complete ignorance of the screening process. Besides if "communication skills" were really so important, then why do so many jobs go people who do not even speak English natively, or well?
A typical job ad usually lists at least six skills. But since no two jobs are alike, how is it even remotely likely that any particular applicant will have 5 years experience in each of those areas?
Business works under the assumption that IT workers are interchangable commodities, but nothing could be further from the truth.
What the PHBs don't understand: a person can know windows or linux all day, but it can take a long time to fully understand the particular system at a particular company. This is even more true when it comes to software development: somebody who is fully familiar with your company's code, and company's way of doing things is going to be 10X as productive as another developer who only knows "Java" or whatever.
But when the PHBs can not find the exact skill set they want, they will bitch that there are no IT workers. Those skills sets can be very complicated, btw. Six different skill areas are typical, although I have seen some jobs that ask for over 30 different skills.
I am in Denver, and that is the going pay. Many helpdesk jobs require very considerable skills, but the pay is nothing. I am amazed that anybody would want those jobs.
You can check out my blog at techtoil.org. On the front page I have an article: "Worst job in IT: PC Technician and/or Help-Desk?" Also click on the "Salary Survey" and compare helpdesk jobs to unskilled labor.
Here are a few quick examples, please note the *long* list of requirements relative to the pitiful pay:
* Helpdesk Support |Entry Level
o Bachelor's degree (required) in Computer Science, Computer Information Systems or similar discipline preferred
o 1-3 years technical experience in a desktop support environment
o Strong Windows XP, MS Office, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Adobe Acrobat support experience
o Knowledge of Ghost or similar imaging software and concepts
o Strong competency in supporting PC, Laptop and PDA Hardware and Software
o Experience using Help Desk Software for issue tracking, asset tracking, knowledge base and service level reporting desired
o A+ Certification preferred but not required.
o Microsoft MCDST Certification or equivalent preferred but not required.
* Compensation: $35K to $45K
* Technical Support/Help Desk
o Excel, Powerpoint, Word, Netmeeting, Microsoft Outlook
o Communication Skills, Business Writing Skillls
o SAP, Oracle, Data Modeling, Data Management
o Peoplesoft, MS Access
o DSS/EIS/OLAP Programmer
o Database Design, DB2, EAI, Middleware
o System Integration, Automated Test, System Architect
o PDM, Project Management, Organizational Skills
* Compensation: up to $13.73 per hour DOE, Heath insurance available
Think about this: there is a difference between saying "there are not enough super-models who want to go out with me" and saying "there are not enough women in the world."
If you want to make a point, please specify: your exact requirements, exactly what pay and terms you offer, and where the job is located.
If you are typical, you are looking for somebody with extensive experience in a dozen different areas, then whining that there are no IT specialists.
"There are a lot of mediocre or bad programmers out there, most of them with degrees."
How do you know? There are hundreds of thousands of programmers, have you really hired, and fairly evaluated a big enough sample to make that sort of a statement? Also, what are your own credentials? And what, in your opinion, makes them so "mediocre or bad?"
In my experience, self-taught programmers do not understand structured development at all. They tend to be spaghetti coders. They also don't understand the software life cycle process, or other software engineering concepts. They just know how to hack things together. But, that is just my experience.
I would be interested to know what criteria you use to define a "good programmer."
"There are quite a few good things about the Microsoft release, such as showing that HTML5 is looked at, Acid2 is (almost) being passed, and CSS support is improving, but there are quite a few evil things as well"
> This might fit in well with Slashdot groupthink, but it doesn't fit in well with reality.
WTF? Are you aware of msft's history? Controlling the standard is central to msft's business model. Msft's philosophy is: "control the standard and the money will follow." Msft's EEE strategy has been well established - and not just on slashdot. Once msft get's of control of the standard - which msft did by msie 5.5 - msft then goes to work on extending the standard.
> Back when Internet Explorer 6 was being developed, they were in direct competition with Netscape.
I think you may need to review your timeline. By the time msie came out, msft owned over 80% of the browser market:
"5.x versions attained over 80% market share by the release of IE6 in August 2001."
> And when Internet Explorer development was restarted, they were responding to a call for improved standards support,which they have delivered on.
Ah yes, the incompatibilty "features" were put in because of user demand, just like DRM, and WGA. Isn't that standard msft PR?
> I'm sorry, but deliberate sabotage is a ridiculous way of explaining this.
Just like it's ridiculous to think that silverfish, or OOXML, are supposed to lock people in to msft's proprietary standards, right? Why will msft's own website not work with msie 5.5? And as I understand it, msft is going to incorporate silverfish into their own site.
By "features" you mean the ability to render sites that are specifically built to not work with anything but the latest version of msie? Such as msft's own site?
"So much for an open standard. I have a question for the ISO. Have all prior meetings been run like this? In the deepest shade you can find? You know they have not, and I know they have not."
If you already have an MSCS, and you are already well established, then that is one thing.
But, what if you just now deciding on your major? Is CS really the best way to go? Considering the flat salaries, massive offshoring, and very uncertain future?
Is it possible that you would be better off going into medicine, or law, or something else?
Silverlight does not work with Linux, and offers only limited support for Mac. But the US Library of Congress took a $3 bribe from msft to force the US to only use msft products. If you want access to public documents, you have to use microsoft - nothing else will work.
Clearly msft will force this standard on everybody, just like msft will force OOXML on everybody. Once Silverlight is deployed everywhere, developers will start supporting it.
Grandparent's post about H1Bs makes a perfectly valid point. And the post was not raciest in the least.
The flood of offshore IT labor being imported, and the flood of IT jobs being exported, is an entirely valid consideration to those considering CS studies.
Mod me down, if you like, but just look at the job boards.
Employers practically never require any degree at all for most development or admin jobs. And when they do ask for a degree it's something like: "CS, or some technical discipline, or similar, or equivalent."
About half the people working in IT do not have any degree, the other half are just as likely to have degrees in literature, or art history.
A BSCS is as difficult to get as degree in engineering, but as worthless as a degree in liberal arts.
> Experts attribute the shift to changes in job market, and also to changes in curriculum and the marketing of comp sci programs
I wonder who those "experts" are? I also wonder if the grads are Americans, or if they are just training in the USA.
Is the market for CS grads getting better? I sure don't see it. Salaries seem to be stagnant, job requirements seem to be way up, the IT field looks more demanding, and less secure, than ever.
Companies are breaking their necks to hire more H1Bs, and to offshore more jobs. Traditional barriers to offshoring jobs are being broken down.
Other countries are cranking out CS grads at a furious rate. And those grads are happy to work for $5 an hour, or less.
Of course, a CS degree could be valuable. But it's hard for me to imagine that a CS degree is the best thing an intelligent, ambitious, American can do with his/her life.
If you are using Windows: you better keep all the correct documents organized, and on hand. Better be ready to provide - on a moments notice - all the proof that the BSA requires. In case you get a friendly visit.
If you are using Windows, you will need a sophisticated asset management system, and a thorough knowledge of licensing rules.
Total speculation: maybe this is the part where msft wants the scam to just go away. Act as if it never happened. So everybody gets enough loot, so that they have nothing to really bitch about. Then scox is taken private, and disovled.
You buy a car that is said to get 40mpg. Then you find that somebody neglected to tell that is only if the car is going down a steep hill. Is that really honest?
Protecting the public from scams is exactly the sort of thing the legal system was designed to do. If msft is lying about PCs being "Vista Ready" then msft certainly deserves to be sued.
If you want some example of genuine wasteful abuse of the legal system consider:
1) The msft sponsored scox-scam, soon to be in it's sixth year. Scox never even owned UNIX, scox never had any case what-so-ever.
2) The acacia lawsuit against redhat. Another case loaded with msft involvement.
Slashdot Mirror
That much I know for certain. I saw the Merkey article, and I saw the white-washed article.
Somebody on the yahoo scox message boards, who claimed to Merkey, and certainly seemed to be Merkey; bragged about having the negative information removed, in exchange for a "donation" and for Merkey dropping his harassment lawsuit.
If a Vista PC costs $278, then I would not there is much difference in profit margin.
Maybe the offline PCs were selling out, but not fast enough? This may be a slow time of year for PC sales.
Just look at the job ads. Often a mid-level job requires dozens of different skills - and no two jobs are alike.
For example: what is a sysadmin, what skill do they have? What do they do?
I have been interviewing lately: at one place, the job turned out to be all about database development. At another, the job was all about software configuration management. At another, the job was all about disaster recovery planning. There is never much similarity between the actual job requirements, and the job that is advertised.
And please don't give me that "soft skills" crap. Because that only proves complete ignorance of the screening process. Besides if "communication skills" were really so important, then why do so many jobs go people who do not even speak English natively, or well?
A typical job ad usually lists at least six skills. But since no two jobs are alike, how is it even remotely likely that any particular applicant will have 5 years experience in each of those areas?
Business works under the assumption that IT workers are interchangable commodities, but nothing could be further from the truth.
What the PHBs don't understand: a person can know windows or linux all day, but it can take a long time to fully understand the particular system at a particular company. This is even more true when it comes to software development: somebody who is fully familiar with your company's code, and company's way of doing things is going to be 10X as productive as another developer who only knows "Java" or whatever.
But when the PHBs can not find the exact skill set they want, they will bitch that there are no IT workers. Those skills sets can be very complicated, btw. Six different skill areas are typical, although I have seen some jobs that ask for over 30 different skills.
I am in Denver, and that is the going pay. Many helpdesk jobs require very considerable skills, but the pay is nothing. I am amazed that anybody would want those jobs.
You can check out my blog at techtoil.org. On the front page I have an article: "Worst job in IT: PC Technician and/or Help-Desk?" Also click on the "Salary Survey" and compare helpdesk jobs to unskilled labor.
Here are a few quick examples, please note the *long* list of requirements relative to the pitiful pay:
* Helpdesk Support |Entry Level
o Bachelor's degree (required) in Computer Science, Computer Information Systems or similar discipline preferred
o 1-3 years technical experience in a desktop support environment
o Strong Windows XP, MS Office, Outlook, Internet Explorer and Adobe Acrobat support experience
o Knowledge of Ghost or similar imaging software and concepts
o Strong competency in supporting PC, Laptop and PDA Hardware and Software
o Experience using Help Desk Software for issue tracking, asset tracking, knowledge base and service level reporting desired
o A+ Certification preferred but not required.
o Microsoft MCDST Certification or equivalent preferred but not required.
* Compensation: $35K to $45K
* Technical Support/Help Desk
o Excel, Powerpoint, Word, Netmeeting, Microsoft Outlook
o Communication Skills, Business Writing Skillls
o SAP, Oracle, Data Modeling, Data Management
o Peoplesoft, MS Access
o DSS/EIS/OLAP Programmer
o Database Design, DB2, EAI, Middleware
o System Integration, Automated Test, System Architect
o PDM, Project Management, Organizational Skills
* Compensation: up to $13.73 per hour DOE, Heath insurance available
What is it with these PHBs?
Think about this: there is a difference between saying "there are not enough super-models who want to go out with me" and saying "there are not enough women in the world."
If you want to make a point, please specify: your exact requirements, exactly what pay and terms you offer, and where the job is located.
If you are typical, you are looking for somebody with extensive experience in a dozen different areas, then whining that there are no IT specialists.
Your post leaves me a little perplexed.
"There are a lot of mediocre or bad programmers out there, most of them with degrees."
How do you know? There are hundreds of thousands of programmers, have you really hired, and fairly evaluated a big enough sample to make that sort of a statement? Also, what are your own credentials? And what, in your opinion, makes them so "mediocre or bad?"
In my experience, self-taught programmers do not understand structured development at all. They tend to be spaghetti coders. They also don't understand the software life cycle process, or other software engineering concepts. They just know how to hack things together. But, that is just my experience.
I would be interested to know what criteria you use to define a "good programmer."
I think what they really mean is: why don't linux users *buy* more games for linux.
Linux users may use console games, or have a windows partition.
"There are quite a few good things about the Microsoft release, such as showing that HTML5 is looked at, Acid2 is (almost) being passed, and CSS support is improving, but there are quite a few evil things as well"
http://annevankesteren.nl/2008/03/ie8-bad
> > Microsoft doesn't WANT IE to be compatible.
> This might fit in well with Slashdot groupthink, but it doesn't fit in well with reality.
WTF? Are you aware of msft's history? Controlling the standard is central to msft's business model. Msft's philosophy is: "control the standard and the money will follow." Msft's EEE strategy has been well established - and not just on slashdot. Once msft get's of control of the standard - which msft did by msie 5.5 - msft then goes to work on extending the standard.
> Back when Internet Explorer 6 was being developed, they were in direct competition with Netscape.
I think you may need to review your timeline. By the time msie came out, msft owned over 80% of the browser market:
"5.x versions attained over 80% market share by the release of IE6 in August 2001."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_5
> And when Internet Explorer development was restarted, they were responding to a call for improved standards support,which they have delivered on.
Ah yes, the incompatibilty "features" were put in because of user demand, just like DRM, and WGA. Isn't that standard msft PR?
> I'm sorry, but deliberate sabotage is a ridiculous way of explaining this.
Just like it's ridiculous to think that silverfish, or OOXML, are supposed to lock people in to msft's proprietary standards, right? Why will msft's own website not work with msie 5.5? And as I understand it, msft is going to incorporate silverfish into their own site.
By "features" you mean the ability to render sites that are specifically built to not work with anything but the latest version of msie? Such as msft's own site?
I don't know if anybody remembers that old Little Ceasar's commercial.
As PJ commented:
"So much for an open standard. I have a question for the ISO. Have all prior meetings been run like this? In the deepest shade you can find? You know they have not, and I know they have not."
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080305124744293
From the link you provided:
"According to Robert Half Technology, starting salaries for software engineers . . . "
Again, asking Robert Half if it's a good time to go into CS, is like asking a realtor if it's a good time to buy a house.
If you already have an MSCS, and you are already well established, then that is one thing.
But, what if you just now deciding on your major? Is CS really the best way to go? Considering the flat salaries, massive offshoring, and very uncertain future?
Is it possible that you would be better off going into medicine, or law, or something else?
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/web_services_browser/what_3_million_buys_silverlight.html
Silverlight does not work with Linux, and offers only limited support for Mac. But the US Library of Congress took a $3 bribe from msft to force the US to only use msft products. If you want access to public documents, you have to use microsoft - nothing else will work.
Clearly msft will force this standard on everybody, just like msft will force OOXML on everybody. Once Silverlight is deployed everywhere, developers will start supporting it.
Grandparent's post about H1Bs makes a perfectly valid point. And the post was not raciest in the least.
The flood of offshore IT labor being imported, and the flood of IT jobs being exported, is an entirely valid consideration to those considering CS studies.
Mod me down, if you like, but just look at the job boards.
Employers practically never require any degree at all for most development or admin jobs. And when they do ask for a degree it's something like: "CS, or some technical discipline, or similar, or equivalent."
About half the people working in IT do not have any degree, the other half are just as likely to have degrees in literature, or art history.
A BSCS is as difficult to get as degree in engineering, but as worthless as a degree in liberal arts.
> Experts attribute the shift to changes in job market, and also to changes in curriculum and the marketing of comp sci programs
I wonder who those "experts" are? I also wonder if the grads are Americans, or if they are just training in the USA.
Is the market for CS grads getting better? I sure don't see it. Salaries seem to be stagnant, job requirements seem to be way up, the IT field looks more demanding, and less secure, than ever.
Companies are breaking their necks to hire more H1Bs, and to offshore more jobs. Traditional barriers to offshoring jobs are being broken down.
Other countries are cranking out CS grads at a furious rate. And those grads are happy to work for $5 an hour, or less.
Of course, a CS degree could be valuable. But it's hard for me to imagine that a CS degree is the best thing an intelligent, ambitious, American can do with his/her life.
Am I wrong? Am I missing something?
If you are using Windows: you better keep all the correct documents organized, and on hand. Better be ready to provide - on a moments notice - all the proof that the BSA requires. In case you get a friendly visit.
If you are using Windows, you will need a sophisticated asset management system, and a thorough knowledge of licensing rules.
From msft's point of view, would it make more sense to have an XP firesale?
That would still lock people into msft, but it look better from a PR point of view. And msft apparently considers PR very valuable.
If there were an XP firesale, msft could say "Yeah, nobody wants junky old worn-out XP anymore. Everybody wants a shiny new Vista."
Also, XP would be more attractive to those with lower-end hardware.
Selling more Vista will just piss more people off
That's the difference between the EeePC and an old laptop.
The EeePC is not supposed to be a super-powerful computer. Rather, the EeePC is supposed to be very portable, and affordable.
> So, what's the five million for?
Total speculation: maybe this is the part where msft wants the scam to just go away. Act as if it never happened. So everybody gets enough loot, so that they have nothing to really bitch about. Then scox is taken private, and disovled.
You buy a car that is said to get 40mpg. Then you find that somebody neglected to tell that is only if the car is going down a steep hill. Is that really honest?
Protecting the public from scams is exactly the sort of thing the legal system was designed to do. If msft is lying about PCs being "Vista Ready" then msft certainly deserves to be sued.
If you want some example of genuine wasteful abuse of the legal system consider:
1) The msft sponsored scox-scam, soon to be in it's sixth year. Scox never even owned UNIX, scox never had any case what-so-ever.
2) The acacia lawsuit against redhat. Another case loaded with msft involvement.