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T-Ray Camera Sees Through Clothes, Preserves Privacy

Quite a few readers are sending in stories about ThruVision's products, slated to be demonstrated in Britain next week, that are claimed to use Terahertz radiation ("T-rays") to detect foreign objects under clothing, without revealing body details, from a distance of 25 meters and while the subject is in motion. T-rays lie on the electromagnetic spectrum between infrared and microwaves, and are the subject of lively research efforts worldwide. ThruVision says it developed its products in cooperation with the European Space Agency.

315 comments

  1. OMG by dartarrow · · Score: 2, Funny

    pr0n!!


    oh wait.....

    --
    I love humanity, it is people I hate
  2. Don't be silly by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Everyone knows the real threat is breast milk and hand cream. Why are we scanning bodies for weapons when there are people trying to get on the plane with Starbucks coffee??

    1. Re:Don't be silly by iNaya · · Score: 5, Informative

      Stupid things getting confiscated happens a lot. I've accidentally brought scissors onto a plane while my girlfriend had make-up and beauty cream stolen from her. (It wasn't in the mandatory plastic bag (don't see how a plastic bag makes make-up less dangerous though)). By focussing on too many things, security actually drops because it allows more error for more dangerous things to get on. They wasted so much time arguing with my girlfriend they didn't actually catch what was in my jacket as it went through the scanner.

      --
      The Unicode standard is over 20 years old. Why does Slashdot not support it?
    2. Re:Don't be silly by clickclickdrone · · Score: 3, Funny

      >my girlfriend had make-up and beauty cream stolen from her
      I blame modern advertising techniques. When you have ads on TV with blinged up rappers saying 'When I is vexed wiv me dry hands man, I get me some Oil of Olay - it's da bomb' - it's no wonder security staff get confused.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    3. Re:Don't be silly by jonaskoelker · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, you have no idea what kind of dangerous weapons of mass destruction you can disguise as breast milk, hand cream and Starbucks coffee. Terrorists are using them to kidnap and molest your children. Won't somebody think of the children?? With this new scanner, we can protect and--God forbid we will have to--save your children. Why do you hate America's children, you crazy hippie?

      (Committee for Aviation Transportation Security says "All your privacy are belong to us")

    4. Re:Don't be silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Everyone knows the real threat is breast milk

      I propose a MANdatory tactile inspection of breasts for milk at every airport terminal in the country. No, i propose the same test be administered randomly to women on the street since airports aren't the only viable targets.

    5. Re:Don't be silly by Mike89 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Stupid things getting confiscated happens a lot.
      Heh, just over 10 years ago (when I was ~8), I went on a plane with two pairs of scissors on my pencil case (in Australia). They were allowed on, but for safety reasons they gave them to Mum before we boarded... How times have changed!
    6. Re:Don't be silly by malsdavis · · Score: 5, Informative

      People taking their own drinks on planes is a real threat ...to the profits of Airport Operators who make A LOT of money selling duty-free retail space.

    7. Re:Don't be silly by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      don't see how a plastic bag makes make-up less dangerous though

      The argument is that the liquids they are afraid of are volatile and hard to contain in cans, and thus you would see condensation on the inside of the bag.

      Incidentally, do you know how many terrorist attacks that airport security at check-in have prevented? :)

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    8. Re:Don't be silly by EdIII · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I can top that :)

      20 Years ago I went on a plane with DYNAMITE baby!

      I was a kid, and all I wanted to do was to get some M80's and M160's back to my school for some good harmless fun. I stuck it in my desktop computer (no really), in a bag between the hard drives and the floppy disk where there was still 2x5 1/4 bays.

      I figured what is the worst they could do to a 12 year old?

      Of course.. now as an adult I realize that putting about 2 dozen firecrackers into the overhead compartment was just a little unwise.

    9. Re:Don't be silly by Dorceon · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can get a breast milk latte at Starbucks now? Why wasn't I told?

      --
      What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
    10. Re:Don't be silly by Mike89 · · Score: 1

      That's fantastic. I assume you didn't get caught?

    11. Re:Don't be silly by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      they just did now want you to run with them since you were 8 at the time...

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    12. Re:Don't be silly by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Nope. They were not looking too closely at a 12 year old little boy flying alone.

      It might of had something to do with the fact that an X-Ray machine may not be able to penetrate between the floppy disk and the hard drives from a top down view (I assume that to be so). So it was as if the bag of firecrackers was encased in lead lined box.

    13. Re:Don't be silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      M80s aren't dynamite.. but still.

    14. Re:Don't be silly by Eivind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really ? Can you show me a source for your claim that *that* is the "official" reason ?

      Sounds downrigth ludicruos to me, and I've never seen that particular claim before.

      First, it's not true that it's hard to make a can that is sealed well enough that no vapors, certainly not enough to cause visible condensation would escape.

      Second, condensation happens on cold surfaces, if the plastic-bag is the same temperature as everything else (I don't see why it wouldn't be) there'd be little condensation even if there *was* a lot of vapor inside the bag.

      Third, there's no prohibition that I've seen on having a ventilated plastic-bag, say one that has lots of holes in it, or even one made of some breathing membrane.

      Not that being ridicolous is any sort of defence offcourse, lots of downrigth silly things happen anyway.

    15. Re:Don't be silly by agrapentin · · Score: 1

      Second, condensation happens on cold surfaces, if the plastic-bag is the same temperature as everything else (I don't see why it wouldn't be) there'd be little condensation even if there *was* a lot of vapor inside the bag. If the bag was sealed at a warmer temperature, or with a humidity level that the current temperature cannot keep in gas form, condensation will occur.
    16. Re:Don't be silly by cheater512 · · Score: 2

      But what about the terrorists? :P

      It doesnt have to make any sense.
      Just as long as the important people look like they are doing something.

    17. Re:Don't be silly by aclarke · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes you can. COW breast milk.

      I'm sorry. That was an udderly lame comment.

    18. Re:Don't be silly by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The argument is that the liquids they are afraid of are volatile and hard to contain in cans, and thus you would see condensation on the inside of the bag. Not all liquid explosives are volatile, but it helps. Anything with enough nitrogen content is able to be turned into an explosive, it's just a matter of how much work is involved for each compound.

      That being said, suffice it to say that I managed to get a can of lighter fluid on a plane, even after they put the restrictions on liquids in place. And I wasn't even trying to get it on the plane, it was just in a bag I was carrying and I didn't even think about. But apparently, it was missed by the screeners who were far more interested in stealing my bottles of Pantene and my can of Axe.

    19. Re:Don't be silly by grrrl · · Score: 2, Informative

      The plastic bag is simply so they can eyeball all your liquids/gels at once, easily.

    20. Re:Don't be silly by BigDaddyOttawa · · Score: 1

      In the early 90's I was moving out west and getting on a plane for the first time in Toronto, where I'd stayed with a friend for a few days on the way through. As I passed through security and the x-ray machine, they asked if they could look in my carry on bag. I agreed, of course, thinking it was my alarm clock they were interested in. I almost shat myself when they pulled out a boot knife with a 4" blade I'd acquired at a university party a few months prior that was used for cutting limes for tequila. Add to that the fact that I was still suffering the effects of smoking far too much pot while in T.O., and was walking with a bag of seeds stuffed in my right boot, I thought I was done for. My "Oh my god, I didn't know that was in there, you can keep it, I don't need it." was met with a small smile, my knife tucked back in my bag, and an "It's okay, don't worry about it.". I suspect that little exchange would have turned out much worse for me had it happened under present day conditions.

      --
      Sig? SIG? We don't need no stinkin' sig!!!
    21. Re:Don't be silly by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      I did the same thing, but it was about 1000 regular "black cat" firecrackers and I put it in my checked luggage. Still illegal as hell, but I wasn't even thinking about it at the time.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    22. Re:Don't be silly by noidentity · · Score: 1

      You can get a breast milk latte at Starbucks now? Why wasn't I told?

      Yeah, you can get this stuff everywhere! It's usually called "milk", obtained from the breast of a cow, and quite cheap.

    23. Re:Don't be silly by EdIII · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. I was always told they were, but in smaller concentrations. Like a M80 was something like 1/10th of a stick.

    24. Re:Don't be silly by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Especially when the duty free shop is outside the security screening, as they are in some airports. In Amsterdam a woman on my flight was pissed because she'd just bought about $500 worth of duty free liquor and skin care products only to have the confiscated at the gate, when they went through security.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    25. Re:Don't be silly by LucidBeast · · Score: 4, Funny

      Aren't the security check waiting rooms, which are crammed with hundreds of explosive travelers, blowing up daily? I don't know, because I'm afraid to google explosions and airport security.

    26. Re:Don't be silly by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Nope.

      They contain flash powder, not nitroglycerin.

    27. Re:Don't be silly by bockelboy · · Score: 1

      My understanding was that they sat down and figured out the minimum volume of liquid you need to make a bomb large enough to take down a plane, and decided you couldn't hit that volume in X many 3 mL bottles.

      Then again, that understanding was based upon a cable news report, so it could just be complete BS.

    28. Re:Don't be silly by TerribleNews · · Score: 3, Informative

      I maintain that this is all part of a plan to get people used to obeying rules that don't make any sense and keeping people afraid so they'll be docile and do what they're told. Imagine combining the Milgram experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) with a multi-generational desensitization towards following orders you don't agree with. You know, start small, like forcing people to split their fluids up into 3 oz containers on airplanes. Eventually , I bet you could get people to do pretty much anything.

    29. Re:Don't be silly by Guysmiley777 · · Score: 1

      Nope, flash powder is not Dynamite.

      --
      Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
    30. Re:Don't be silly by mea37 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the bag was sealed at a warmer temperature, or with a humidity level that the current temperature cannot keep in gas form, condensation will occur regardless of whether or not there was anything dangerous in the bag.

      I'd say GP has a point -- the idea that the bag is there so they can see condensation sounds bogus.

      According to the TSA's website, the reason for the bag is to impose an overall limit on the amount of liquid carried by each passenger. (Which as near as anyone seems able to tell is also silly, but that's another matter...)

    31. Re:Don't be silly by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, do you know how many terrorist attacks that airport security at check-in have prevented? :) This is a very, very bad argument you try to use against these checks. Of course no-one can tell you how many have been prevented, in other words how many attacks would have succeeded without this, or any checks in place. We don't know, it's preventive.
      Many safety measures are preventive. Incidents are prevented - it is impossible to tell how many incidents would have taken place, and how much damage if any they would have caused. The incidents were prevented, nothing happened. In case of air traffic related attacks, safety measures like metal detectors will prevent many would-be terrorists and hijackers to even try.
      That said I do not agree with the current state of security, but your argument is exactly what the proponents can use as well, and which can never be substantiated either way (and if so it supports the proponents even more than the opponents), so don't use it.
    32. Re:Don't be silly by julesh · · Score: 1

      Really ? Can you show me a source for your claim that *that* is the "official" reason ?

      Sounds downrigth ludicruos to me, and I've never seen that particular claim before.


      I've seen it (or rather something similar) in plenty of places. This one seems official enough to me.

      First, it's not true that it's hard to make a can that is sealed well enough that no vapors, certainly not enough to cause visible condensation would escape.

      Second, condensation happens on cold surfaces, if the plastic-bag is the same temperature as everything else (I don't see why it wouldn't be) there'd be little condensation even if there *was* a lot of vapor inside the bag.


      The variant I've seen is that the bag catches a vapour that's easy to detect, and therefore bottles (which are the primary target, not cans) do not need to be opened to check the contents.

      Third, there's no prohibition that I've seen on having a ventilated plastic-bag, say one that has lots of holes in it, or even one made of some breathing membrane.

      This page suggests the bag must be zip-topped. I've never seen anybody supply a zip-topped ventilated bag, although I suppose you could make holes in it yourself. This would probably, however, only serve to draw attention to yourself.

      Not that being ridicolous is any sort of defence offcourse, lots of downrigth silly things happen anyway.

      This I don't disagree with. :)

    33. Re:Don't be silly by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Parent is correct about condensation.

      Furthermore, nobody carries a zip-loc bag of toothpaste: they carry a zip-loc bag with a tube of toothpaste. So it wouldn't condense on the plastic bag if it was nested inside yet another plastic container.

    34. Re:Don't be silly by jo42 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      how many terrorist attacks that airport security at check-in have prevented? 42?
    35. Re:Don't be silly by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, do you know how many terrorist attacks that airport security at check-in have prevented? :) This is a very, very bad argument you try to use against these checks. [...]

      I wasn't making an argument, just asking a question. But since you bring it up: How many terrorist have been caught by the check-in checks? If the measures work, I'd expect the checks to catch someone, at least occasionally.Of course, a lot more might simply give up before they try, but since the attacks do happen occasionally, there are still a basis for statistics. If the answer, as I suspect, is none, then I'd say that the checks are ineffective. Metal detectors? Give me a break, any idiot can get past *that* with whatever weapon she desires short of a tank.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    36. Re:Don't be silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest you review where "cow milk" comes from. I can assure you it's not from their breast area.

    37. Re:Don't be silly by jerryasher · · Score: 1

      Desktop computer fine. Laptop computer WAY WAY dangerous.

    38. Re:Don't be silly by Komi · · Score: 1

      I criss-crossed the country with shurikens in my backpack. I forgot they were in there. It wasn't until my last flight home that they were found, and boy were they upset.

      --
      The ultimate goal of science is to unify all forces of nature to a single law that can be silk-screened onto a T-shirt.
    39. Re:Don't be silly by keytoe · · Score: 1

      and my can of Axe

      As much as I hate the Security Theater we have going on at airports these days, I fully endorse any effort to forcibly remove cans of man-whore stench from the public. That shit should be considered a chemical weapon the way you people apply it.

      Hint: If you can smell yourself, it's WAY too strong.

    40. Re:Don't be silly by Teufelsmuhle · · Score: 2

      Incidentally, do you know how many terrorist attacks that airport security at check-in have prevented? :) I don't know off-hand, but I would be curious to know the answer to this. My guess is that it is approaching zero.
    41. Re:Don't be silly by Lunatrik · · Score: 1

      42. Exactly.

    42. Re:Don't be silly by spud603 · · Score: 1

      I maintain that this is all part of a plan to get people used to obeying rules that don't make any sense and keeping people afraid so they'll be docile and do what they're told.

      Although this sounds like run-of-the-mill conspiracy theory, you have a very good point. It doesn't have to be a conscious long-term plan in any one official's mind for it to be true. Next time you're in an airport just listen to the persistent announcements every two minutes about how some government branch has decreed a grave threat, so do what you're told. I think it is specifically designed to create an atmosphere of submission to authority.
      At least, this explanation makes a lot more sense than any sort of security provision...
    43. Re:Don't be silly by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      I've never seen anybody supply a zip-topped ventilated bag, although I suppose you could make holes in it yourself. This would probably, however, only serve to draw attention to yourself.


      Never bought grapes at a supermarket, then?
      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    44. Re:Don't be silly by mbessey · · Score: 1

      Not all liquid explosives are volatile, but it helps. Anything with enough nitrogen content is able to be turned into an explosive, it's just a matter of how much work is involved for each compound. I think you mean "anything with enough Oxygen content". Nitrogen doesn't contribute to explosive power. Many explosives are nitrates, but it's the Oxygen in the compound that makes them explosive, not the Nitrogen. Among the other explosive compounds they're looking for are chlorates and peroxides, neither of which contain Nitrogen.
    45. Re:Don't be silly by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      ... and perchlorates, etc. Yes.... I know I wasn't being technically correct, but seen in the context of "enough oxygen", they'll ban my favorite chemical drink, dihydrogen monoxide.

    46. Re:Don't be silly by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      It was in the official TSA blog, which was discussed here about a month ago.

    47. Re:Don't be silly by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      Even further back than 20 years ago, they used to give kids cockpit tours in midflight for British Airways. The head stewardess would simply take you by the hand, walk you up to the cockpit and the pilots would show you around the controls and let you look out the front window.

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    48. Re:Don't be silly by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      This page suggests the bag must be zip-topped. I've never seen anybody supply a zip-topped ventilated bag, although I suppose you could make holes in it yourself. This would probably, however, only serve to draw attention to yourself.

      Not that being ridicolous is any sort of defence offcourse, lots of downrigth silly things happen anyway.

      This I don't disagree with. :) It's not like you couldn't just leave the zip top unzipped, or partially zipped.
      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    49. Re:Don't be silly by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      I suggest you review where "cow milk" comes from. I can assure you it's not from their breast area. Yeah, no duh! It's from their TITS!!! woo hoo!

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    50. Re:Don't be silly by Zibri · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If everybody's armed it wouldn't be easy to hijack the plane, now would it? Maybe something the antiterrorists of today should consider. :)

    51. Re:Don't be silly by j_166 · · Score: 1

      "In Amsterdam a woman on my flight was pissed because she'd just bought about $500 worth of duty free liquor and skin care products only to have the confiscated at the gate"

      Why? Couldn't she read the many signs telling people they can't bring liquids in their carry on?

    52. Re:Don't be silly by Captain+Pringle · · Score: 1

      And that was a pretty cheesy pun. But I guess you've got to milk these cow jokes for all they're worth when you spot the chance.

    53. Re:Don't be silly by capnchicken · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I think they did that right up until September 11th. I got my tour on a flight with the family out to California, although that was about 15-20 years ago too, damn I'm getting old.

      --
      A libertarian shat on my carpet once. Claimed the free market would sort it out. -Ford Prefect(8777)
    54. Re:Don't be silly by SacredByte · · Score: 1

      I remember when I was maybe 11 or 12 flying down to florida to visit my paternal grandfather. I went to the airport with at least two pocket knives and a multi-tool ON MY PERSON. Looking back, the funniest part is that it took 2-3 passes through the metal detector for me to find all of them...

      Security didn't even make a comment to me, or make moves to confiscate any of it. This was the summer of 2000 or 2001 (I don't remember which).

    55. Re:Don't be silly by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

      "Yes you can. COW breast milk."

      - Moost interesting.

      K.

    56. Re:Don't be silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before 9/11 I always carried a pocket knife onto planes. It was amusing the few X-ray techs that couldn't determine the size from the X-ray image. "Can I look in your bag? Do you have a knife? Where is it?", etc. Then they pull it out and see how small it was and drop it right back in with an embarrassed look. A quick Google search says the limit was 4", so they didn't care about your knife.

    57. Re:Don't be silly by psychicsword · · Score: 1

      I am a willing participant!(Along with half of the human population)

    58. Re:Don't be silly by XHIIHIIHX · · Score: 1

      Put it in a tin can, fill it with dirt, and place it in the bonfire for some good fun next time.

    59. Re:Don't be silly by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      I suspect that little exchange would have turned out much worse for me had it happened under present day conditions.

      Small knives (and I believe 4" counted as 'small') were legal to carry on planes in the early 90's.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    60. Re:Don't be silly by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      Nitrogen doesn't contribute to explosive power.
      No, you are thinking of things that burn really fast (like gunpowder). For primary explosives (things that fall apart with great releases of energy) nitrogen-rich compounds can be fantastically energetic. Tri-Nitro-Toluine, Nitro-glycerine, lots of cyclic nitrogen compounds will spontaneously decompose producing multiple nitrogen gas molecules per explosive molecule. When one solid molecule becomes several gaseous molecules this creates a massive increase in volume - hence an explosion.
    61. Re:Don't be silly by Grygus · · Score: 1

      Metal detectors? Give me a break, any idiot can get past *that* with whatever weapon she desires short of a tank.
      I would say you should be able to get through a metal detector given a tank, as well.
    62. Re:Don't be silly by MConlon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On September 10, 2001 I went through Heathrow (coming back to NA from Europe) with both a Swiss Army knife and a smaller penknife in my jacket pocket. The jacket went through the x-ray machine.

      The next day I slept in (jet-lagged) and woke up to discover the world had changed for the worse. :(

      MJC

    63. Re:Don't be silly by mstahl · · Score: 1

      I've proposed this many times. It's the ultimate security strategy: issue 9mm pistols to random passengers. Nobody would ever want to start shit on a plan where they know a certain percentage of the passengers are packing heat. A 9mm pistol, even at altitude, is not enough to cause an explosive decompression either.

      Another idea is to just have air marshalls who are competent and armed on every flight.

    64. Re:Don't be silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Furthermore, nobody carries a zip-loc bag of toothpaste: they carry a zip-loc bag with a tube of toothpaste. So it wouldn't condense on the plastic bag if it was nested inside yet another plastic container.

      I do! I use baking soda, because everyone knows that toothpaste has fluoride which causes cancer. I take just enough to last my trip, usually a 1x2" ziplock bag is all I need. Boy, do they make a fuss about it. If I'm at the end of a very long line, I just show it to a passing TSAss and I get my very own line. Works really well!

    65. Re:Don't be silly by julesh · · Score: 1

      Never bought grapes at a supermarket, then?

      My local supermarkets all supply grapes in bags that are unsealed. I'm not entirely sure why they'd bother sealing them, but I guess some probably do. Back to that stupidity thing. ;)

    66. Re:Don't be silly by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      You're right, of course. The real threat is from all the sheep who comply, not the wolves to avoid and circumvent the rules. Who started a war in Iraq? A woman with hand cream boarding a plane? No..It was the President who lied about weapons that didn't exist, then destroyed the emails that would have demonstrated they all lied. He's still in office, atop his pile of corpses. The woman still doesn't have her hand cream. The security industry is only effective at wasting vast sums of money and slowing everything down. Makes one grumpy just to htink about the farce that has been going on for years.....and that John McCain supported and still supports...and people will vote for him, too. Numb nuts that they are. OK...mark me off topic if you want, but this is the REAL story here, not nudey x-rays.

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
    67. Re:Don't be silly by uncamarty · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you're right...
      Terrorists do sweat when you put them in a zip-loc bag...

      --
      I am not a manual I am a human being! - The distress call of the TechSupport Badger
    68. Re:Don't be silly by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      Of course not to be too cynical I suppose it doesn't hurt the sales of in flight drinks at inflated prices and I am sure there is a highly profitable market for little containers of airport safe cosmetics also at highly inflated prices.

      As far as I know by far the bulk of arrests have resulted from customers having their stuff stolen and refusing to be properly respectful to the TSA, and not knowing when to just shut and bend over and say please sir.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    69. Re:Don't be silly by Eivind · · Score: 1

      The page says a plastic-bag tends to concentrate vapors, giving chemical sniffers more of a figthing chance than without. Fair enough, and a quite different claim from looking for visible condensation, which REALLY won't work unless the terrorists are AMAZINGLY inept.

    70. Re:Don't be silly by RockModeNick · · Score: 1

      Axe is amazingly combustible. Check out the ingredients. You don't just get a flame if you spray axe on a lighter, you get a deep blue TORCH flame, you could melt solder with that thing easy, or light a pile of people's clothes on fire. I had a pyro roommate in college, and axe handed out 200 promotional mini cans in my dorm. He had like 50 of them by the end of the night just bumming them...

    71. Re:Don't be silly by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows the real threat is breast milk and hand cream. for some reason I thought this said breast cream and hand milk.....
    72. Re:Don't be silly by Reziac · · Score: 1

      From the wiki article, I find this statement particularly telling:

      "the greater the locale's respectability, the greater the obedience rate"

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    73. Re:Don't be silly by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Nitrogen doesn't contribute to explosive power. Many explosives are nitrates, but it's the Oxygen in the compound that makes them explosive, not the Nitrogen.
      Your car's air bag would like a word with you.
    74. Re:Don't be silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i maintain that this is all part of a plan to get people used to obeying rules that don't make any sense and keeping people afraid so they'll be docile and do what they're told. Imagine combining the Milgram experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) with a multi-generational desensitization towards following orders you don't agree with. You know, start small, like forcing people to split their fluids up into 3 oz containers on airplanes. Eventually , I bet you could get people to do pretty much anything.


      Bingo. Welcome to the revolution!
    75. Re:Don't be silly by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Most , if not all, the chemicals they are concerned with need to be kept at a lower temperature. So if I have a container that is cold, condensation will appear on the container.

      Now, if I took this clod liquid, pored it into a clear container it would have substantial condensation that would be visible.

      Whether or not that's the actual reason, who knows. It's not the plastic bag thats has condensation, its the container in the plastic bag.

      In your example, the toothpaste container would have condensation if it was chilled to 38 degrees.

      All in all, it's stupid.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    76. Re:Don't be silly by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, it's not a plan. It's a natural progression, each person wanting to be seen as 'doing something'.
      Soething will give, hopefully the process will give and just fail.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    77. Re:Don't be silly by ben(zen) · · Score: 1

      That's not a knife! *this* is a knife ::pulls out a short sword:: ...anyways... that's kinda funny.

    78. Re:Don't be silly by ben(zen) · · Score: 1

      Agreed. That stuff is especially awful in school locker rooms. "Oh, I'll just spray some of this on me after gym..." *pshht* "Hey, there's my friend..." ::tosses:: *psshht* "My locker smells awful." *PSHHHHHHHHHHT!*
      Yeah... for someone with asthma, that stuff's instant death, or at least instant can't-breathe-i-can-feel-my-lungs-clasping-shut-right-now.

    79. Re:Don't be silly by ZmeiGorynych · · Score: 1

      The fundamental philosophical issue there is that all prevented attacks are, by definition, not observable. You can only observe attacks that very nearly succeeded, and when it comes to those specifically involving liquid explosives, to the best of my knowledge the count is zero.

    80. Re:Don't be silly by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Actually why was putting them there unwise? Nothing even remotely dangerous -- really dangerous -- about it.

      You can bring your M80's up in my PRIVATE aircraft any day of the week. Let's go flying the non-TSA way... come on out to the airport.

      --
      +++OK ATH
    81. Re:Don't be silly by mea37 · · Score: 1

      "So if I have a container that is cold, condensation will appear on the container."

      Yes... Unless the container is surrounded by very dry air, as could be arranged by picking when and where I seal it in a ziploc bag.

      Seems to me that for your argument to make sense, they'd have to demand that you not put your liquids in a sealed bag of any sort.

  3. So.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    .... it detects foreign objects? a tampon? or only objects RIGHT under clothes? Cause we all seen news of drugs hidden inside human orifices.

    1. Re:So.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it talks like a duck, WALKS like a duck, then, well, it's a terrorist duck. Don't need T-Ray to tell me that.

  4. Preserves privacy by robably · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...so long as you redefine privacy to mean exclusively "photographic images of your body", and exclude anything else including the contents of your own pockets. That's a pretty narrow definition of privacy. So narrow, in fact, that it stops being privacy at all.

    1. Re:Preserves privacy by jotok · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's like the "so long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument: the definition of "right" is getting so narrow as to be ridiculous.

      To use a networking metaphor...Our model of government is supposed to be one where the government's rights are whitelisted and everything else is by default given to the citizen, but we're moving towards a state where the government is blacklisting OUR actions.

      "Right" and "wrong" have, sadly, never had absolute definitions and have proven to be quite malleable in tyrannies past.

    2. Re:Preserves privacy by robably · · Score: 1

      Well, this is more about the hypocrisy of marketing-speak than the tyranny of governments (for now). They're aware that people will be concerned about the privacy invasion it implies so they've tried to head those concerns off at the pass, without realizing it makes them look even worse. They now look like uncaring bastards, instead of just some people with a cool new implementation of technology.

    3. Re:Preserves privacy by mrbluze · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...so long as you redefine privacy to mean exclusively "photographic images of your body", and exclude anything else including the contents of your own pockets. That's a pretty narrow definition of privacy. So narrow, in fact, that it stops being privacy at all. [ Reply to This ] Have a bit of pity on the people who have to look at the pictures all day. That's an aweful lot of disgusting bodies to look at for just a few good looking ones!
      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    4. Re:Preserves privacy by mpe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's like the "so long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument: the definition of "right" is getting so narrow as to be ridiculous.

      Yet interestingly I don't see politicans, civil servants, CEO, etc being first in line to tell everyone exactly what they are doing.

    5. Re:Preserves privacy by robably · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's an aweful lot of disgusting bodies to look at for just a few good looking ones!
      If I remember correctly, I think that's part of Operant Conditioning - producing a reward only occasionally is more effective at reinforcing a behaviour than rewarding the behaviour every time. After you've conditioned the rat to press the bar to receive a food pellet you reduce the frequency of the reward and it ends up pressing the food bar manically in the hope of receiving another. Thus in this case, hot chicks stand out from fat birds and the operator is stimulated to continue looking to find another.
    6. Re:Preserves privacy by EdIII · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is this the same reason why some men become gynecologists?

      They go through a few miles of bad clam just in the hope of getting to that few inches of celebrity/supermodel paradise?

    7. Re:Preserves privacy by mpe · · Score: 1

      Have a bit of pity on the people who have to look at the pictures all day.

      If they are doing that the security value is probably close to nothing. You'd need something like they do this for a maximum of 15 minutes in every hour or two.

    8. Re:Preserves privacy by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      Yeah, but imagine what the future presidential elections will be like when the candidate of the day goes on stage and some geeks have rigged one of those machines up to the room...

      If we're lucky, they'll make a law banning all campaign soundbyte footage from TV news forever ;-)

    9. Re:Preserves privacy by Eivind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed. Some of us have the oposite priority even.

      I don't particularily care very much if someone gets a glimpse of me naked somehow. I look like an average 32 year old male, if that's someones particular thing, more power to them.

      I -DO- however strongly oppose massive registers being maintained about my every movement, with name and address, class I'm flying, how and when I paid for my ticket, if it's a return or single, where I booked it, how many pieces of luggage I checked in, who I'm traveling with, who I phoned the last 2 years and for how long we chatted, and and and and....

      Everything stored and collected in massive secret government-databases to be used for screening for "terrorists".

      What happened to presumption of innocense ? Since when is it okay to collect data on EVERYONE because SOME may be guilty ?

    10. Re:Preserves privacy by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      That's because even the stuff that those groups do publicly is enough to convince most of us that they're evil. ;-)

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    11. Re:Preserves privacy by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      If it doesn't bother you that someone sees you that way, that's OK, it's your choice. Then again, sad as I personally think it is, it obviously doesn't bother a significant number of people if they're tagged and monitored in everything they do, as long as they get 2% off at the till and to share photos with their friends on Facebook.

      I believe the important thing is that these are personal choices. Why does it matter if they have machines that effectively strip search anyone walking through them? Because some people walking through them won't like it, and that's reason enough to prohibit the use of such machines by default.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    12. Re:Preserves privacy by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      Hence the success of World of Warcraft.

    13. Re:Preserves privacy by kabocox · · Score: 1

      If I remember correctly, I think that's part of Operant Conditioning [wikipedia.org] - producing a reward only occasionally is more effective at reinforcing a behaviour than rewarding the behaviour every time. After you've conditioned the rat to press the bar to receive a food pellet you reduce the frequency of the reward and it ends up pressing the food bar manically in the hope of receiving another. Thus in this case, hot chicks stand out from fat birds and the operator is stimulated to continue looking to find another.

      Wouldn't the moral of that be for terrorists to find ugly fat chicks to hide stuff on?

    14. Re:Preserves privacy by JavaRob · · Score: 1

      just in the hope of getting to that few inches of celebrity/supermodel paradise? ...when she comes in with some funny warts, or for a Pap smear? Mmm, ain't nothing sexier than cervical scrapings.

      The ladies all believe there's nothing sexier either, so when you happen to run into that supermodel somewhere away from the rubber gloves and stirrups, like at a bar, you just *know* she's going to be thinking sexy thoughts the moment she sees you.

      Heh.
    15. Re:Preserves privacy by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Come on. This is not about her thoughts, it's about the gynecologists thoughts. Stay on topic :)

      As far as her thinking sexy thoughts about the doc afterwards, that is not as interesting as what she is thinking while the doc has her in the stirrups.

    16. Re:Preserves privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      At airports where these systems are under trial (Heathrow is an example), policies are in place to prevent some of these issues. Basically, the screeners looking at the output from these systems are separated physically from the location where the passengers are being scanned. They do not have visual/optical access to the individuals, only the monitor on which the processed image/video is displayed.

      I say "processed" because certain systems that have exceptional resolution also have privacy controls, which de-resolve specific bodily areas. Those systems are x-ray backscatter, however, not passive terahertz. Passive terahertz (Thruvision, and ones such as this) do not have this problem, as the article states. Think about it: f = 100 GHz to 1 or 2 THz. What's the wavelength? What's the best possible resolution (Rayleigh criterion, diffraction limited optics with a reasonable aperture not larger than 0.5 m, etc.)?

      Disclaimer: this is my Ph.D. thesis topic.

    17. Re:Preserves privacy by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    18. Re:Preserves privacy by BlackCreek · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more.
      There is very little privacy being respected by that crap, after all I do have the expectation of not being searched without any tangible reason.
      The problem is that with this fearmongering, most people don't see a problem whatsoever with it. I find it actually rather amazing the amount of people in Europe who don't give a rats ass for their privacy, and absolutely trust their governments never to screw them (personally) in any way.
      AFAICT they know abuses will happen, but they just expect it to happen to some weird looking person.

    19. Re:Preserves privacy by robably · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the screeners looking at the output from these systems are separated physically from the location where the passengers are being scanned. They do not have visual/optical access to the individuals, only the monitor on which the processed image/video is displayed.
      It mentions that at the end of the article, but that isn't privacy - it's just temporary anonymity, and as soon as something out of the ordinary pops up that anonymity goes as well. There has to be some connection between the "physically separated" screener and a person at the scanner otherwise the system wouldn't work, and even if there was no connection at all it still wouldn't be privacy. If a stranger is watching you you do not have privacy, it's irrelevant how remote they are.

      The big problem is that almost all passengers allows themselves to be fingerprinted, scanned, and recorded. If nobody put up with it, if everyone traveled another way when faced with these restrictions, then the system could never be enforced because the airlines would lose money hand over fist. They would only have to be boycotted for a week for it to hit them in the pocket, hardly an inconvenience for passengers. But the amount of people with conviction enough to boycott them is insignificant, unfortunately.
    20. Re:Preserves privacy by Atario · · Score: 1

      However, the rats get either a food pellet or nothing. If you want a true parallel, give the rats an occasional food pellet in a sea of electrical zaps.

      --
      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    21. Re:Preserves privacy by Eivind · · Score: 1

      I said I don't particularily care very much, not that I find it super. I too would prefer a world free of forced strips. It's just that, like I said, my priorities are oposite; I consider storing gigabytes of personal data for decades a much LARGER problem than somehow getting a glimpse of a naked person.

    22. Re:Preserves privacy by Eivind · · Score: 1

      I don't just write to them. I discuss with them on mailing-lists, I participate in political think-tanks, I am an active member of EFF and the Norwegian branch, Efn. When I'm PARTICULARILY opinionated on a topic I pick up the phone and TALK to the relevant politicians about it. (a luxury of living in a small country: You can actually talk to the actual people)

      I'm all with you. Stuff like this only happens because too many care too little, or atleast DO too little.

    23. Re:Preserves privacy by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I personally happen to agree with your priorities. I just wanted to make the point that while something the authorities want to do might not bother you personally very much, the fact that it bothers a significant number of other people should be reason enough for us all to oppose it until/unless someone can make a stronger case for why we shouldn't.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    24. Re:Preserves privacy by smithmc · · Score: 1

      I believe the important thing is that these are personal choices. Why does it matter if they have machines that effectively strip search anyone walking through them? Because some people walking through them won't like it, and that's reason enough to prohibit the use of such machines by default.

      If some people don't wanna walk through the machine, that's fine - they can take their strip-search the old-fashioned way.

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    25. Re:Preserves privacy by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      If some people don't wanna walk through the machine, that's fine - they can take their strip-search the old-fashioned way.

      Why should they have to be strip-searched at all? Does merely wanting to travel from A to B now require me to consent to a gross invasion of my privacy? Unless there are genuine grounds to suspect someone is doing something sufficiently dangerous that such a procedure is reasonably justified, why does anyone working in an airport have any authority to do it to anyone else at all, ever?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    26. Re:Preserves privacy by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who thought, "Laura Croft", when this article was posted?

    27. Re:Preserves privacy by Eivind · · Score: 1

      That's true. But I have an -added- reason for caring more about the gigabytes of personal information.

      People are really REALLY good at ignoring things that aren't IN-THEIR-FACE. When the government proposes to make a new database, which shall store when and for how long anyone telephones anyone else, and the same for email, IM, and all other forms of electronic communication, initially there's an outrage. (I wish this was a fictious example -- sadly it's not)

      After a while people forget about it. It's not something they see or that inconvenience them in their everyday life, so they stop questioning it and go on with their lives. Part of it is probably a survival-tecnique, you can't spend ALL your energy figthing windmills if you want to live happily.

      So, stuff that people notice have a much bigger chance of remaining scrutinized. 5 years from now, everyone will still be aware that you can't bring a can of Coke on a plane. Many of them will completely have forgotten that for the plane at all to be allowed to land on US soil, the government demands a SHITLOAD of information on all the passenger.

      They want to know when you bought your ticket. Your name, address, sex and birthdate. Who you're traveling with. Your frequent-flyer status. If you've got a return-ticket or single. If you paid with credit-card, cheque or cash. If you bougth the ticket online, in a travel-agency or ordered by phone. How many pieces of checked-in luggage you have. The expiry-date of your credit-card (assuming you paid by creditcard), etc etc etc etc.

      They KEEP all this information for a undisclosed (likely infinite) time. And use it to compile secret lists according to secret criteria of people who're not allowed to fly. They may use it for other purposes to, and likely are, but they're not telling. All this happens without the average passenger even -NOTICING- it.

      Honestly, being unable to bring the can of Coke is just an inconvenience. The above really is MUCH worse.

  5. jpg by stjobe · · Score: 2, Funny

    jpegs or you're lying!

    --
    "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  6. Judging by this picture by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The "naught bits" might not be very clear, but a lot of people would be unhappy with security guards looking at images of you like the one shown in this article. Would you be happy with some guy looking at a picture of your teenage daughter like this?

    1. Re:Judging by this picture by AndGodSed · · Score: 1

      Is it just me or do those two pics not match up correctly?

      And how many of you clicked on the link to see if it showed "naughty bits?"

    2. Re:Judging by this picture by multipass666 · · Score: 1

      The parent is very correct. I remember reading an article about this technology a few years ago. Back then it was referred to as using 'soft x-rays' and not 'T-rays'. The image in the above link posted I would say has almost certainly been deliberately blurred. The images I saw a few years back were a hell of a lot clearer and more defined. The whole body was visible including the genitalia clearly shown. When the article states that the product can see weapons underneath clothing but will not reveal body details what the hell do they think will happen? Some sort of blurry patch to be automatically generated around a woman's breasts? The resolution of any such image is limited only by the wavelength of the radiation used. And anything in the terahertz region is able to show minute details on the scale of millimetres if desired. Perhaps the ThruVision contains software to automatically blur the image so as to preserve privacy. But I wouldn't trust it. Take a look here for a better example of what I'm talking about. http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20080309/camera-sees-through-clothes/ That to me, is not 'preserving ones privacy'. Like the parent states. What if that was your teenage daughter, your wife or your child. This stuff makes me sick.

    3. Re:Judging by this picture by Loconut1389 · · Score: 3, Informative
    4. Re:Judging by this picture by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean the one of the guy with the knife hidden in the newspaper?

      Considering how image conscious teenagers are, I don't think she'd be happy being made to look like a cross between a colthes store mannequin and Krtyten from Red Dwarf.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    5. Re:Judging by this picture by nonewmsgs · · Score: 1

      that picture makes me want to work for the TSA. can i buy a camera that gives the naughty picture?

    6. Re:Judging by this picture by Eivind · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, that'd not bother me at all. (though it'll be a few years before any of my daugthers enter their teenage-years)

      I don't at all get the obsession with body-shape in American culture. Those images give you an idea comparable to what you get on any beach, besides, it's just a human body, most of them are quite similar, there is some minor variations, but really, it's not -that- interesting. People who -do- want to look at nude girls (or boys) have a limitless supply already, and that is perfectly fine.

      It bothers me a lot more that the idiots think they need to know every tiny thing you bring with you, be it a can of Coke, a tube of toothpaste or a key. I can live with the metal-detectors, though frankly I don't approve of even those.

      As for the "airplane as missile" threat, that is trivially handled: Install a locked, secure, cockpit-door, end of story. It's not as if: "Fly the plane into that building, or I'll kill this passenger" will work. (the pilots would just refuse, it makes no sense to kill everyone, including that passenger to prevent the killing of a passenger)

      Besides, I have the same ridicolous restrictions when flying on a 20-seat plane flying say Anda - Bergen, there isn't even a potential target within the RANGE of the airplane. If someone *does* take over the plane, best they could do would be killing everyone aboard, plus a single-digit count of people on the ground if they do their aiming well, frankly, this "threat" does not worry me much.

      Frankly, if your goal in life is to manage to somehow kill 20 people, there are easier ways. Defending against them all ain't worth it, because any marginal increase in security is more than counterbalanced by MASSIVE losses of freedom.

      I'd rather live free and have a 1:1million chance of dying as the result of a terrorist-attack, rather than live in a cage, checked every step of my travels, and have a 1:2million chance of dying as the result of a terrorist-attack, both risks are negligible anyway. (if the adiminstration cared about real risk they should start the "war on diabetes" or "war on traffic" or "war on obesity", all of which kill more people a month than terrorism does a decade)

    7. Re:Judging by this picture by c6gunner · · Score: 0, Troll

      As for the "airplane as missile" threat, that is trivially handled: Install a locked, secure, cockpit-door, end of story. It's not as if: "Fly the plane into that building, or I'll kill this passenger" will work. (the pilots would just refuse, it makes no sense to kill everyone, including that passenger to prevent the killing of a passenger)
      Maybe not. On the other hand "I'm going to kill one passenger every minute until you open this door" would probably work. Also, "I'm going to set off my bomb if you don't open this door in 30 seconds" is pretty much guaranteed to work.

      Besides, I have the same ridicolous restrictions when flying on a 20-seat plane flying say Anda - Bergen, there isn't even a potential target within the RANGE of the airplane. If someone *does* take over the plane, best they could do would be killing everyone aboard
      Imagine that - airlines wanting to prevent the unnecessary deaths of 20 passengers, highly valued pilots, and the destruction of a multi-million-dollar aircraft. Silly buggers.

      Frankly, if your goal in life is to manage to somehow kill 20 people, there are easier ways. Defending against them all ain't worth it, because any marginal increase in security is more than counterbalanced by MASSIVE losses of freedom.
      ....

      This is why nobody has asked for your opinion.

      I at least partly agree with you - I think the best way to stop terrorists and murderers is to pass concealed carry laws and encourage a culture of gun ownership. It's no coincidence that most mass-killings occur in "gun free zones". However, wild gun battles are a bit of a bad idea when you're inside a pressurized fuselage at 30,000 feet. The only logical alternative is to ensure that nobody brings any weapons on board.

      if the adiminstration cared about real risk they should start the "war on diabetes" or "war on traffic" or "war on obesity", all of which kill more people a month than terrorism does a decade
      Ohhh, I know! Even better, let's have a war on old age! Surely if we get enough hippies protesting against it, we can get old age and death-by-natural-causes to be declared illegal. Then we can have a true utopia, free of all worry!
    8. Re:Judging by this picture by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Maybe not. On the other hand "I'm going to kill one passenger every minute until you open this door" would probably work. Also, "I'm going to set off my bomb if you don't open this door in 30 seconds" is pretty much guaranteed to work.

      No, it won't work.

      Killing one passenger every minute wouldn't work, since anyone that would do that pretty much has voided any of my expectations that they would'nt continue to do so or worse once they have the cockpit.

      If the terrorist has a bomb, but his goal is to get into the pilot's compartment, as a pilot I sure as hell wouldn't prefer the option where the terrorist HAS a bomb AND the cockpit.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    9. Re:Judging by this picture by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      Maybe not. On the other hand "I'm going to kill one passenger every minute until you open this door" would probably work. Also, "I'm going to set off my bomb if you don't open this door in 30 seconds" is pretty much guaranteed to work.


      I'm not sure it would, it wouldn't if I were the pilot anyway. I can't see what benefit you'd get letting a suicdial maniac into the cockpit so he can kill people on the ground as well as those he's already killing on the plane. On a more fundamental level if there is a murderous maniac killing people outside the last thing I'm going to do is let him in to kill me too.

      The best thing to do is hope he doesn't really have a bomb and fly to the nearest military base where the SAS or whoever can have a reception party waiting for him. The more passangers he's killed the more painful he is likely to find it when he lands.
    10. Re:Judging by this picture by Feanturi · · Score: 1

      Huh? The T-ray picture makes the guy look lumpy and out of focus. The "naughty bits" are not merely unclear, I can't even see them at all. What was the point you were trying to make with that link exactly?

    11. Re:Judging by this picture by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the key point is that the passengers would not just let it happen. They would have nothing to lose by acting en-mass to overpower the attackers, and the pilots would know this. Before 911 passengers probably thought that if they didn't get involved they would probably be allright - the situation is now reversed.

    12. Re:Judging by this picture by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Most mass killings do not happen in Gun Free Zones - since there is at least one gun in the zone ... .. and they all happen in a gun friendly zone usually called the USA

      This new camera will help with screening for knives, guns etc. that cannot be detected by a metal detector ?

      Looks like technology for the sake of it ..?

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    13. Re:Judging by this picture by Dominic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, I don't really care. Exposure to this sort of thing all day would make them immune to it. Do you worry every time your 'teenage daughter' goes to the doctor? This weird sort of prudery seems to be very American - I don't think anyone here in Europe is really that bothered.

    14. Re:Judging by this picture by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Oh to that I absolutely agree. I'd just like to see reinforced cabin doors so that we could concentrate our security focus.

      Right now security is trying hard to find everything to prevent everything, but with a few changes which are being resisted because it adds cost to the airlines, we could remove some of the things which security needs to be concerned about.

      Even though the passengers ideally would rush any would-be terrorist, there are key points at which the plane is particularly vulnerable. At least a strong cabin door would keep someone from rushing the cabin and conking the pilot with a fire extinguisher during a landing. I trust pilots, but even the most diligent could be distracted by a 200 lb man flailing about in the cockpit while the rest of the passengers tried to pull him back out.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    15. Re:Judging by this picture by Phisbut · · Score: 1

      It's no coincidence that most mass-killings occur in "gun free zones".

      Nope. Most mass-killings occur in the United-States of America, also known as the kingdom of gun-ownership (with something around 0.9 gun per capita). There is no place in the US that I consider a gun-free zone, as 9 out of 10 people I meet might own one.

      --
      After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
      - The Tao of Programming
    16. Re:Judging by this picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This (parent's link) is an outdoor 95 GHz passive image (from Qinetiq). It is not representative of passive indoor terahertz images. Note the "glare" from the cold sky temperature on all upward-facing features in the image.

      An actual indoor passive terahertz image (bandwidth 100 GHz to 1.2 THz) looks like this. With the broad bandwidth, you can both see through the clothes (100-300 GHz) and also see the clothing features (above 500 GHz. note the zipper, folds, etc. There is an APL on transmission of mm-wave/terahertz/infrared radiation through common clothing that may be of interest here.). I'll point out that this is raw data, unprocessed.

      Disclaimer: this is the subject of my Ph.D. thesis.

    17. Re:Judging by this picture by lazy_nihilist · · Score: 1

      I'd rather live free and have a 1:1million chance of dying as the result of a terrorist-attack, rather than live in a cage, checked every step of my travels, and have a 1:2million chance of dying as the result of a terrorist-attack, both risks are negligible anyway.
      Meanwhile, on the FOX news channel, additional new airport checkin security procedures have the potential to reduce TERRORIST ATTACKS by HALF, but some terrorist lovers oppose those saying that the improvements are quite negligible.
    18. Re:Judging by this picture by Taevin · · Score: 1

      Wow, if I had mod points I'd mod you funny because you must be joking.

      The number of people that own guns is more like 25%, nowhere near 90%. Furthermore, less than half of gun owners own guns for self defense. The vast majority own them for hunting and recreation, activities which favor rural areas. In other words, if you're in a rural area, the chances of encountering someone who owns a gun are quite high (although even there, the chances of them having a firearm on their person are still quite low). In an urban area, the chances of encountering someone who owns a gun are comparatively very low even given the very large difference in population density.

      Though he was trolling, there is something to be said for the GP's statement that most mass killings occur in gun free zones (e.g. schools). There is a reason that crime is much lower in rural areas, and I don't think it's because the people residing there are simply of a higher moral fiber; they're humans like everyone else. That's not to say that significantly higher gun ownership is the reason, but there is a good chance it is a factor. I know that I wouldn't be caught dead trespassing on a farm in the middle of the night, let alone trying to steal the TV.

    19. Re:Judging by this picture by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Would you be happy with some guy looking at a picture of your teenage daughter like this?

      Hmm... Maybe it's an attempt to make the job of security guard more attractive to young people ?-)

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    20. Re:Judging by this picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Defending against them all ain't worth it, because any marginal increase in security is more than counterbalanced by MASSIVE losses of freedom.

      I'd rather have my life than freedom.

      Freedom is no good if you are dead - free to feed the worms and maggots.

    21. Re:Judging by this picture by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      "Those images give you an idea comparable to what you get on any beach,"

      That's just peachy for girls who like to wear bikinis. For those who prefer to keep the majority of their body hidden, the fact that the security guard could see as much -of someone else- at the beach isn't much consolation.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    22. Re:Judging by this picture by j_166 · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself! Some of us have superfluous 3rd nipples.

    23. Re:Judging by this picture by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      No, it won't work. Killing one passenger every minute wouldn't work, since anyone that would do that pretty much has voided any of my expectations that they would'nt continue to do so or worse once they have the cockpit.
      1) It's a natural reaction for most people to cooperate.
      2) It can be rather difficult to think rationally while listening to your stewardess gurgle her last breaths through a slit throat, or while hearing a child begging for his/her life.

      The fact that you can sit here and talk about what people will do in an emergency as if it were some sort of certainty tells me that you've never really been in any situation more tense than a game of texas hold'em. The one consistent rule about violent situations is that there is no consistency. Even professional soldiers and police officers can panic and act irrationally, so trying to predict how a friggin' pilot will react is a fools errand.
    24. Re:Judging by this picture by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      The fact that you can sit here and talk about what people will do in an emergency as if it were some sort of certainty tells me that you've never really been in any situation more tense than a game of texas hold'em.

      You don't have any insight into my personal life, and this is just a message board so I can not expect you to understand since I haven't discussed my personal life in my posts. Otherwise your statement would be god damned insulting.

      That aside...

      I didn't want to discuss hypotheticals, I shouldn't have tried to post based on hypotheticals. I simply wanted to point out that a pilot who is behind a reinforced door, would then have the time to at least try to think rationally about the situation. Pilots of commercial airliners ARE the type who are trained to remain calm, or at least try to remain calm under very stressful conditions. There will always be a hypothetical situation that can be constructed that are exceptions, but a pilot behind a door which they have enough justification to trust will withstand an attack until they have time to land will be in a much better position to think rationally than a pilot who has no such luxury.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    25. Re:Judging by this picture by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Current screenings fail to ensure that nobody brings any weapons. Did you read the report where testers (employed by the airlines) tried taking 40 different plane-rides carrying concealed weapons of various sorts (mostly guns and knifes), two thirds of them came trough.

      This also ignores the fact that a broken vodka-bottle is not as a weapon -that- much less threathening than the weaponry employed in 9/11.

      It also ignores the -cost- of the screenings. I don't mean just the manpower to do them, also the inconvenience, the various problems and the invasion of privacy.

      As for "nobody has asked for your opinion", that's nonsense. I live in a democracy, I participate in the debate. Both are most definitely asked for. And if any politician do -not- wish for that kind of participation, then that in itself would be a strong argument for tossing him/her.

    26. Re:Judging by this picture by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Yeah. People are bad at statistics, so stuff like that happens.

      A large procentual change to a TINY risk can indeed be completely ignorable, whereas a moderate change to a high-risk can be worth doing something about.

      How many lives would have been saved in USA over the last 30 years if terrorist-attacks on US soil where halved ?

      How does that number compare with the number of lives saved over the last 30 years if car-accidents where down by 10% ?

    27. Re:Judging by this picture by Eivind · · Score: 1

      But that isn't the choice you get. You get CLAIMS of increased security that are hard to evaluate fairly. For a factor that is already ignorable on the list of death-risks you're facing. In exchange for severe limits to your freedom.

      Would you live in a polstered faraday-cage cell, and NEVER leave it, to avoid the (real!) 0.001% chance that you'll be killed by ligthning ?

      There is some level where the trade-off may be worth it. This ain't it.

    28. Re:Judging by this picture by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Even a full swimming-suit does next to nothing to hide body-shape, it's just a single thin layer of generally thight-fitting fabric, afterall.

      I guess some people don't go to the beach at all, because they don't want anyone to see their body-shape. Fair enough. My argument wasn't that this is completely harmless. My argument was that the many other abuses we currently suffer are even worse.

  7. T-Ray? by lunchlady55 · · Score: 1

    I'll hold out for my Z-Ray specs. (Better than X-Rays. Two higher, in fact!)

    1. Re:T-Ray? by Deus.1.01 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Bastard! you robbed me of my chance to get a +5 funnay!! I WAS JUST GONNA MAKE THE FUTURAMA REFERENCE :.(

      --
      My -1 Troll is actually a +1 funny. And my -1 flame is actually a +1 insightfull.
  8. Oh, hell yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    They might as well call it Titty-ray. I'm no longer going to regret dropping out of high school and becoming a TSA agent!

  9. Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technology by Tjeerd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last year they installed a device at Airport Schiphol in Amsterdam, that can also scan through your clothes to see what's beneath it. Read the article [url=http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/174-amsterdam-airport-body-scanning]here[/url]. Some articles on the internet claim that "The Security Scan scanner is based on a technology that uses millimeterwaves. The waves will persist over clothing, and are reflected by the skin. Also other materials, such as plastic, metal, wood, iron, ceramics, etc. reflect the waves. This will help to detect suspicious objects." More information can also be found here.

    --
    To repeat what others have said, requires education, to challenge it , requires brains.
  10. Aluminum foil by pesc · · Score: 5, Funny

    Time to make some aluminum foil underpants to go with your hat.

    --

    )9TSS
    1. Re:Aluminum foil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except, you've got nothing to hide with your tinfoil underpants...;)

    2. Re:Aluminum foil by siddesu · · Score: 3, Funny

      meh, n00b. we've had these for years now.

    3. Re:Aluminum foil by EdIII · · Score: 3, Funny

      They modded you funny, but maybe it should be insightful.

      Just how many women do you think would pick up a pair of Privacy Britches (TM) to go through the check process? I am betting 99.9999%, with the very small percentage being nymphomaniacs, exhibitionists, and freaky sadistic grannies.

      On Another Note... How many men would be stuffing their pants with aluminum sausages out of vanity?

      Just possibly there is a product in the works here.

    4. Re:Aluminum foil by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Except both of those would result in the "excuse me ma'am/sir, would you kindly step over here for the full-body orifice probe?"

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    5. Re:Aluminum foil by EdIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      I DARE THEM. No, I DOUBLE DARE THEM! :)

      I always eat a bunch of Habernero taco sauce and bunch of spicy burritos/tacos before I go through airport security. I promise the guy who attempts to probe me will be talking about it when he is 90 years old.

      Unless they are using 90 year old guys to give the tests, in which case it might kill him.

    6. Re:Aluminum foil by CrYAG · · Score: 1

      I believe wet clothes would work better. Water absorbs the terahertz waves very efficiently.

    7. Re:Aluminum foil by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      They'll go well with my foil wrapped cucumber that i always stick down my lycra pants...

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    8. Re:Aluminum foil by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      Actually, since these devices operate in the Electromagnetic frequency range, what's to stop someone from making a jacket or a shirt lined with thin electromagnets just to cause havoc with these camera systems?

      Alternately, what's to stop someone from getting animal hide and wrapping their weapon in it, and then sticking it to their body? a thin knife could easily be disguised that way, and might not even show up on a T-wave scan.

      Interesting concepts, to be sure.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    9. Re:Aluminum foil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes sense ... chicks wearing wet T-shirts to the airport to protect their privacy. :-)

    10. Re:Aluminum foil by awehttam · · Score: 1

      Unless they are using 90 year old guys to give the tests, in which case it might kill him.

      Now now, don't give the terrorists ideas..

    11. Re:Aluminum foil by DataBroker · · Score: 1

      Just how many women do you think would pick up a pair of Privacy Britches (TM) to go through the check process? I am betting 99.9999%, with the very small percentage being nymphomaniacs, exhibitionists, and freaky sadistic grannies.
      There's actually a market (or at least a company trying to find a niche). There are panties sold for girls that are trying to prevent the same sort of peeking (by use of a video camera in IR mode). If you want to read the brief (har har) article or just check out the modeled panties, click me.
  11. Just waiting on Total Recall type scanners by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    so why cannot a computer be used to provide cover? In other words, it can mask out the irrelevant bits, and leave all the solid objects in view

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Just waiting on Total Recall type scanners by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Insightful

      'cause then you'd be able to disguise a weapon of mass destruction as a mere tool of rape.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    2. Re:Just waiting on Total Recall type scanners by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think thats a great idea. I'd find it amusing a bunch of female terrorist whipping out their strap-ons and proceding to shoot the place up. THAT would be a sight to behold. Guerrila warriors with Boob-bombs. While i'm sure this scanner would be used in conjuntion with other tech my image would make a great traditional war painting.

  12. It's a threat to privacy no matter how you look at by jay-za · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any deice that attempts to see things you have decided to conceal is a threat to privacy. Just because I choose to conceal something doesn't make me a terrorist, I could be concealing an external bladder bag (or any other kind of medical device), women (and guys, I suppose) may have given themselves some non-surgical "enhancements". There are all sorts of things I may be concealing that are no threat to anyone, but could embarrass me if they were made known to others.

    No, the question here isn't whether this is a threat to privacy or not - it is. The question here should be is it a threat we're prepared to accept. How much of our privacy are we going to give up for a sense of security?

  13. Let me be the first to say... by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...owwwww my sperm!

    OH wait.. that was an F-ray!

    --
    I drink to make other people interesting!
    1. Re:Let me be the first to say... by jamesh · · Score: 1

      ...owwwww my sperm!

      Don't worry. It only hurts the first time.
  14. cool by owlnation · · Score: 1

    Can you get one of these from an ad in the back of comic books, along with some sea monkeys?

    1. Re:cool by AndGodSed · · Score: 1

      Hey I remember those ads! good times.

  15. Some T-Ray images by hatchet · · Score: 1

    Here..
    Note the date... article is from 2003, and technology hasn't advanced at all since then. (Or prove me wrong, provide links)

    1. Re:Some T-Ray images by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Or prove me wrong, provide links

      You are just asking for some porn site spam!

    2. Re:Some T-Ray images by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A picture of a human hand, taken through a 1/2-inch (15 mm) pad of paper, is the first product of the new T-ray camera.

    3. Re:Some T-Ray images by thedolphinguy · · Score: 0

      Is your concern about your daughter's body your responsibility, or your daughter's? Maybe she wants to be t-rayed? In my case and most teen girls I've been priveleged to meet want to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies, and that their parents are a pain in their sides putting guilt in their minds, and even criminalizing their sexuality that's been with them since they were born, not loved but abhorred. You do know don't you, that girls are born with over 4,000 ova already in their ovaries, and that this informs their psyche to grow up to be women? Women that want to relate with their bodies, whereas with males it comes to them about 15 years later, and they don't have a clue what it's really all about, and so jerk off everywhere, both in and out of bodies, the jerks that they are. Maybe t-rays is just another form of pornography for guys that can't relate in the first place? Ha.Ha. In any case, t-rays are in nature and isn't it nice that someone cares enough to want to see under our clothes? As Mark Twain?, said: "If we were meant to wear clothes, we would have been born that way", or something like that?

  16. This is really old by duck0 · · Score: 1

    I remember the picture of the guy with the knife, but a the time they called it millimeter wave? Didn't they like that buzzword? (sorry, I have no proof)

  17. Bah by Mantaar · · Score: 3, Funny

    They can do what they want, but they'll never see through my tinfoil overall. I even have a catheter, so I never have to go pee. They've got cameras in the toilets, too!

    --
    I'm an infovore...
    1. Re:Bah by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Explosive diarrhea is a serious threat.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  18. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by linuxpng · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ah what the hell.. guns, bombs, and cameltoe!

  19. Too late... by Yvanhoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Planes hijacking using knifes cannot happen again. The 9/11 was a one-time event. Before it, in case of plane hi-jacking, passengers sat quietly, waiting for the hijackers to finish their negotiations. After 9/11, taking back the control of a plane at the risk of getting hurt is the most intelligent course of action. This is what apparently happened on UAF93. Now you can't hijack a plane without anything short of an automatic gun.

    All this craziness about uber-security is just useless, the only risk today is the risk of bombing and it is already hard enough to bring a big engine in the cabin. Bombings are far easier by bringing a car full of explosives into a crowded area...

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    1. Re:Too late... by teh+moges · · Score: 1

      I agree with your point about plane hijacking, though this type of technology would help protect embassies against a rouge intruder and any area that is open to the public from someone walking in with a bomb hidden just out of view. From a purely maximal strategy, for the terrorists, a car bomb is the best "terror for each loss" return. However losing just a few lives to a suicide bomber is a very bad outcome for those involved.

      The loss of some privacy is a concern. I can't see a solution to the "I want to be able to do whatever I want without the government spying on my" versus "I don't want people blowing up bombs next to me" problem. Everyone has that line with this type of security, anything up to the line is an acceptable loss of privacy for security and anything past the line is unacceptable. I would rather prefer going into a building and knowing I can safely walk back out again while some security guard finds out I'm not as fit as I should be. However, with the advancements in image processing recently, I can see these systems hooked up to image recognition that automatically detects for foreign objects and only shows "problem" ones to an actual human. Once the error rate for these programs gets over the error rates for humans, I feel a lot of this technology can be brought in more places, with less loss of privacy.

    2. Re:Too late... by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      . Bombings are far easier by bringing a car full of explosives into a crowded area...

      Or a big suitcase. And last I checked, airport security checkpoints are fairly crowded.

      Quick ! We need pre-security security !

    3. Re:Too late... by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if people took responsibility for their actions. Most of the "terror" is because of our foreign policies. Take care of that, then the invasion of our privacy becomes less necessary. Some of the threats are from crazies. Increased understanding of mental illness would help there . But neither approach is likely to lead to increased profit, so we get t-rayed in the 'nads so others can profit.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    4. Re:Too late... by EdIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Once the error rate for these programs gets over the error rates for humans, I feel a lot of this technology can be brought in more places, with less loss of privacy.


      Man you are missing something here and it is HUGE. What about BOFA, Bastard Operator From Hell?

      Somebody has to administrate and perform maintenance on that equipment. Every single surveillance system ever created has been abused in this way. Not just those systems either. Businesses that deal with anything that is expected to be private like developing photographs, medical records, etc.

      Assuming that the interface is that restricted, it would help eliminate the embarrassment of looking the person in the eye. I will give you that. It does not however eliminate the loss of privacy by any stretch of the imagination, it only shifts it someplace else.

      There is a case in the news right now where a private detective in California is being charged for invading the privacy of celebrities by bribing and coercing the employees responsible for safe guarding this private data. This is where I get the BOFA's. People who are responsible and put in a position of trust that end up abusing people horribly.

      No, I'm sorry. The only solution is to stubbornly, and I do mean to the death, fight for our privacy tooth and nail. Never agree with, nor participate with any such system that eliminates your privacy in this way.

      Do they have a right to try to make me walk through one? Sure. Do I have a right to where lead lined clothing going through the airport? Absolutely.
    5. Re:Too late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Most of the "terror" is because of our foreign policies. Take care of that, then the invasion of our privacy becomes less necessary.

      That may be, but advocating isolationism doesn't strike me as a better solution. We should go home and let the extremists be? So long as they are killing/torturing/repressing someone else its OK? Anyone who thinks the answer is easy clearly doesn't understand the issue.

    6. Re:Too late... by mpe · · Score: 1

      All this craziness about uber-security is just useless,

      Actually it's useless at best. There are undoubtedly much more effective security measures to spend the money on. However these are likely to be unobtrustive, in no way bother the majority of people and likely to catch the "wrong sort" of terrorists. Thus making them unattractive to politicans.

      the only risk today is the risk of bombing and it is already hard enough to bring a big engine in the cabin. Bombings are far easier by bringing a car full of explosives into a crowded area...

      A car in a crowded area can be an effective weapon even without filling it with explosives.

    7. Re:Too late... by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Isolationism has nothing to do with military power, at all. You can be an economic force in the world without having tanks to prove something. By your statement, having a military makes us social. The GP, I assume, is talking about our ever constant struggle to make the rest of the world play by our rules. How would you feel if China decided to "liberate" us from our improper ways and our monopolistic corporations?

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    8. Re:Too late... by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if people took responsibility for their actions. Most of the "terror" is because of our foreign policies.
      The unabomber? Timothy McVeigh? You also seem to forget the beheadings of non muslim citizens in the Phillipines, terrorist attacks against Hindus in Indonesia, mass slaughter of Christians in Darfur, and so on and so forth. If you believe anyone from any country of any faith or from any lifestyle is responsible for the terrorist attacks upon them, well, you've already lost the war on terrorism.
      --
      I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
    9. Re:Too late... by ArieKremen · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Terrorists generally do not strive to optimize the victim count relative to the assets they invest. Their prime goal is to terrorize people. If 50-60 years, the occasional bomb and maimed bystander was sufficient to get attention and achieve specific political goals, desensitization of the public has "forced" them to increase yield. Also, the motifs of terrorists have evolved over time, if originally they attempted to achieve a localized goal, today those objectives are more amorphous. Radical islamist terrorists do not want to achieve world domination, free Ireland, adoption of Islam as world religion, or liberate Palestine, the goals are .... (I do not really understand the current goals).

      Anyway, terrorists usually do not put efficiency first, it's always the cause and then the means. And the cause is to maximize terror.

      --
      -- Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui
    10. Re:Too late... by scribblej · · Score: 1

      Doesn't "Hell" start with an "H"? What is a BOF*A* ? All I keep reading it as is "Bank of America."

    11. Re:Too late... by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Jesus Christ its the attack of the Spelling Nazi. Actually, it's the Abbreviation Nazi, a specialized subset of the Spelling Nazi groups. LOL

      Of course... you are absolutely correct too, as all Spelling Nazi's are. They have to be, if a Spelling Nazi screws up don't you guys have to commit ritual suicide or something?

      I just looked at it, and it has A in there. Don't ask me why it is in there, I have no idea. I'm so embarrassed :0

    12. Re:Too late... by maxume · · Score: 1
      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  20. Does this mean by iminplaya · · Score: 1

    My x-ray specs are obsolete?

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Does this mean by rob13572468 · · Score: 1

      wait a minute... this says Z-ray...

  21. Preserves privacy? by DrXym · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can anybody claim that something that can tell if I'm wearing nipple rings or a Prince Albert, or a variety of medical devices from colostomy bags to artificial breasts "preserves privacy"?

    1. Re:Preserves privacy? by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      Well, its true that the scanner shows off images of your naked body in high resolution, comparable to a home-camcorder in infrared nightshot mode, (AKA Paris Hilton mode) the face is fairly blurred and indistinguishable so they can't really tell from the scanner who exactly they are seeing naked. Hence it preserves your privacy because unless they also look at you, not just at the scanner, they don't know who they saw naked!

      Here is a sample image

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    2. Re:Preserves privacy? by turgid · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't everyone just take their clothes off? I mean, it would be much easier, cheaper and fairer. Nothing to hide? Nothing to fear.

      Everyone saw everything, so no privacy to worry about.

  22. T-ray by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's a really unfortunate choice of names, this "T-ray." Inevitably, it wants to make a person associate these waves with x-rays. Photons are photons, but as far as these guys go healthwise, it's pretty certain they'll have more in common with radio or microwaves than x-rays. Heck, the reason they call them x-rays and gamma rays in the first place is because they're in the regime where it makes sense to talk about photons as particles, rather than waves. And they call them "radio waves" and "microwaves" because THEY are down in the more wave-like regime. Just call it "millimeter wave" and be done with it, before we get people claiming they're getting ARS from T-ray devices.

    (Let us not forget that a single terahertz-range photon carries about 4meV of energy. That's little-m milli, not big-M mega. These guys might cause some heating, but they're not going to be ionizing many atoms in your body.)

    1. Re:T-ray by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Funny

      Also, it doesn't help google searches. You will find plenty of sites selling trays if you search for t-ray!

    2. Re:T-ray by kabocox · · Score: 1

      It's a really unfortunate choice of names, this "T-ray." Inevitably, it wants to make a person associate these waves with x-rays. Photons are photons, but as far as these guys go healthwise, it's pretty certain they'll have more in common with radio or microwaves than x-rays. Heck, the reason they call them x-rays and gamma rays in the first place is because they're in the regime where it makes sense to talk about photons as particles, rather than waves. And they call them "radio waves" and "microwaves" because THEY are down in the more wave-like regime. Just call it "millimeter wave" and be done with it, before we get people claiming they're getting ARS from T-ray devices.

      Are you kidding? That's most likely the way we will get the government to stop scanning everyone! Its bad for our privacy health if we are constantly scanned.

    3. Re:T-ray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is even more unfortunate than the misnaming issue (the term "T-ray" is meant to describe time-domain terahertz spectroscopy systems, not passive imaging systems) is the common misunderstanding that the terahertz security imaging systems actually emit radiation (as x-ray backscatter systems do).

      Most terahertz imaging systems are simply very sensitive -detectors- of naturally-emitted terahertz radiation (a la Planck's law), and thus are looking at radiometric temperature somewhere between 100 GHz and 1 or 2 THz. Radiometric temperature is a combination of physical temperature and emissivity, which is why a gun or plastic/ceramic/metal knife held close to your body (such that it is the same physical temperature as your body) is visible to these systems.

      As for privacy (rather, resolution of bodily details), the systems will never do much better than this, given the limits of optics (and the 4 meV you mentioned).

      Disclaimer: this is my Ph.D. thesis topic.

    4. Re:T-ray by teh*fink · · Score: 1

      Inevitably, it wants to make a person associate these waves with x-rays.
      WAVE WANT BE FREE!
      --
      "I DARE you to make less sense!"
    5. Re:T-ray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is about passive technology. The radiation detected is given off naturally by the object. (Oh, now you'll rant because I used radiation and that scares some people, whatever)

  23. Detects foreign objects? by Malevolent+Tester · · Score: 1

    Sorry Tibet, but Mr Gere now has a new issue to campaign about.

    --
    If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
  24. Not sure by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    I think they may match if you take into account a slightly different camera angle. It is not easy to tell. In any case I would be surprised if anyone would "risk" faking a picture like this, it is so easy for potential purchasers to ask for a demo.

  25. "Security" by $pearhead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Am I the only one wondering, for example, why the hell they're selling glass bottles in the shops past the security check (just smash one of those and you have a potentially deadly weapon) when they won't even let anyone bring their own beverages?

    1. Re:"Security" by jimicus · · Score: 1

      If you think about it for a minute, there are hundreds of issues like that - though that's a pretty good example.

      It is unthinkable that this hasn't occurred to the people responsible for airport security. Therefore, whatever the reason for "enhanced" screening and banning liquids is, it's not security. Unfortunately, I suspect the true reason is either lost or only known to a very few, who have used the magic T-word to get everyone below them to repeat the liquids ban as a mantra without really thinking about it.

      My immediate guess would be that it's for the benefit of shops after security, the benefit of companies selling screening equipment or a bit of both.

      I've heard ideas about it being the thin end of a wedge to get people to accept more asinine things so that one day the government can say "Right, anyone with an IQ above 110, please jump off a cliff. You're too clever by half and we don't trust you." but I don't think the worlds' governments are that well organised or that forward-planning.

    2. Re:"Security" by WMD_88 · · Score: 1

      It works like this:
      Step 1: Confiscate items.
      Step 2: Present passengers with in-airport shops that sell said items.
      Step 3: Profit!
      It was never about security. It's about money.

    3. Re:"Security" by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1

      same reason you can't bring your own breverages to the ballpark

      --
      Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  26. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by priandoyo · · Score: 1

    Great, then we should update all of security procedures in airport, don't know how can we so paranoid like this

  27. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak.
    Is that nerd-speak for "I'm socially awkward, and therefore smarter than you"?
  28. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by billsf · · Score: 2, Informative

    Schiphol has had this technology for a few years now. The 'technicians' watch the show in a curtained box some distance from the gates and relay findings to security. When I asked if it was a 'sub-millimeter' system, I was told so, with a smile. They also have infrared that can spot people with a fever, who cannot fly. This system is passive. This device operates at about 10uM or 30THz.

    BTW, 1mm = 300GHz and a true 'T-ray' is at about 1000GHz or 1/3mm.

  29. /autocomplete by MrKane · · Score: 0

    ...Get Your Ass To Mars. See you at the party Richter! Start the reactor. Free Mars. Get ready for a surprise!

  30. Wow! You sure gotta lotta pepperoni in your bread! by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    I don't know if anybody remembers that old Little Ceasar's commercial.

  31. Re:It's a threat to privacy no matter how you look by jay-za · · Score: 1

    European space agency? Then I'm terribly concerned over privacy.

    Just what we don't need, a satellite based T-Ray camera. Just when you thought it was safe to go outdoors (without wearing your tinfoil hat, vest and undies).

    Of course, on the flip side, the CIA will be able to check out hot chicks^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H terrorists for weapons during covert operations.

  32. Re:It's a threat to privacy no matter how you look by jay-za · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Something that just occurred to me is a different use for this technology (assuming it's safe, and depending on the range).

    What about using it in military outposts (especially in areas where suicide bombers are prevalent) to check people approaching. Much less of a privacy concern there, and much more useful too. Possibly create a vehicle mounted system that could go out to investigate suspicious people loitering around the area or even approaching the gates.

  33. So what if I wear metallic clothing ? by mbone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These devices use sub mm wavelengths, which means that they would be stopped by metallic meshes with a mesh size of 0.1 mm or so.
    (I have seen women's party dresses with meshes like this).

    So, what if I wear a metallic mesh shirt or coat ? Or pants ? So much for the T5000.

    BTW, has any physicist ever used the term "T rays" ? What dumb-ass marketing guy thought that up ?

    1. Re:So what if I wear metallic clothing ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      T-ray (Terahertz frequency) is at least desriptive, unlike X-ray (where X means unknown - it was named before scientists knew what it was), and it is used by scientists:

      http://www.rpi.edu/terahertz/whats_new.html

      If a girl wants to wear a metal mesh dress to the airport then:

      1) hubba hubba

      2) strip search time

  34. So if I don't want to be exposted to..... by blankoboy · · Score: 1
    ...terahertz radiation (T-rays), I just need to stop traveling by air and stay away from the streets of London? How soon will be before they are doing drive by scans of people in their homes to ensure they are in compliance with the order of law.

    I assume that they will also be giving out coupons for cancer treatments to the people they are scanning to be used 20 years later.

    /Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

    1. Re:So if I don't want to be exposted to..... by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

      /Negative, I am a meat popsicle
      Must...block...the...mental...image...
    2. Re:So if I don't want to be exposted to..... by blankoboy · · Score: 1

      Please put your hands in the yellow circles....Ring a bell?

  35. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by Tjeerd · · Score: 1

    It's actually a quote from Lao Tse, actually a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi]philosopher[/url] from the ancient China. Although you could apply the quote to a nonsocial person, it is more meant for people who talk as if they know everything and are just talking non-sense. Some people are not talking that much or not at all, but do know a lot. Ok, in the end I think it applies a lot to nerds, but I don't know whether in the ancient China there were already a lot of nerds...

    --
    To repeat what others have said, requires education, to challenge it , requires brains.
  36. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by KinkyClown · · Score: 1

    That's why a lot of people use the backdoor to Schiphol: http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article2029191.ece (Sorry: this is in Dutch).

  37. Oblig Star Trek by itlurksbeneath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    After reading TFA and some of the linked material, it came to mind that if a small T-Ray scanner that would fit in ones hand were invented, it'd certianly have most of the capabilities of the tricorder from Star Trek. Identify materials, scan tissue for disease, etc. Interesting...

    --
    Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts.
    1. Re:Oblig Star Trek by delton17 · · Score: 1

      Quite possible.. they are working on something like this and have already developed a device called the "mini z". Terahertz can not only see through stuff, but somehow they can also do absorbtion spectroscopy on the reflected rays and tell what things are made of. Its really pretty amazing stuff. http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=1944

  38. Let's be sensible and remember, by chris_sawtell · · Score: 2

    That you can avoid all the insane inconveniences of airports and aeroplanes by travelling on a train. Tiny carbon footprint in comparison too. Perhaps it's time for the airport security industry to be taught that lesson.

    1. Re:Let's be sensible and remember, by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That you can avoid all the insane inconveniences of airports and aeroplanes by travelling on a train.

      Unless you're going on a train that stops at an airport, such as the Paddington to Heathrow service, where similar digital strip-search scanners were already trialled two years ago.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  39. heh. knives.... by apodyopsis · · Score: 1

    heh. reminds me of a colleague who traveled to china once - but before he left he argued with his wife.

    her revenge? she packed a set of carving knives in his hand luggage.

    "damn you, you silly little man! I already told you nobody has fiddled with my luggage!" - needless to say the knives and his argumentative nature meant that he missed his original flight. ho ho..

    1. Re:heh. knives.... by robinsonne · · Score: 1

      Actually, my parents took a whole set of steak knives on a plane because they had gotten them as a wedding present. (This is 20+ years ago) They just got waved through, knives and all.

      How the times have changed...

  40. Follow the money by bytesex · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lots of people look at your bits with your permission; doctors, correction facility officers, the military, visitation people at airports. You could get around the awkwardness easily by establishing a code of conduct, and special procedures (like, I only want to be seen by a woman - ok, get in this special line here). But it would be expensive, and it would add a notch to the paycheck of the otherwise menial job of airport security officer. This technology is only being developed to avert payrises. Because T-ray /will/ be there at some point.

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
    1. Re:Follow the money by Guerilla*+Napalm · · Score: 1

      If you don't want your bits displayed in prison, don't get caught, or don't drop the soap.

    2. Re:Follow the money by rueger · · Score: 1

      Lots of people look at your bits with your permission; doctors, correction facility officers, the military, visitation people at airports.

      I don't have lots of first hand experience, but am pretty sure that prison guards don't need your permission to strip search you... by the time you meet them you've pretty had those sort of rights removed.

  41. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by lsw · · Score: 1

    It's not correct, Schipol Airport is using millimeter wave technology not teraherz imaging

    --
    Ironclad Security only exists when you have Chuck Norris on the shift. Do we really have to discuss this? (Plutonite)
  42. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by madjia · · Score: 1

    It's also voluntarily to pass through that security or through the regular security procedures, it's still in a testing phase. The viewers of the images don't get to see the actual people passing through, but just the images from the scanner.

  43. The amazing strip-search scanner by dark-br · · Score: 3, Informative

    Link with pictures here

  44. Re:It's a threat to privacy no matter how you look by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

    T-Ray will only catch the dumb terrorists anyways. Box cutters don't hijack planes, people do. As a frequent flyer, I'd much rather face the scrutiny practiced by El Al profilers at Ben Gurion International instead; an evasion of privacy, not invasion. Watchful parents practice these techniques daily with their teenage sons and daughters. Traditionally, our neglectful American airport guardians would simply hand you the ticket, "Here's the keys to the Buick. Take the toll gate. Be back home by 2."

    --
    I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
  45. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by ceroklis · · Score: 1
  46. Re:It's a threat to privacy no matter how you look by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

    Fine, you go have your privacy. You can ride with the others who aren't checked. I'll stay on the plane that had a security check thank you. Mm. Actually, that would mean you're still in line fumbling to get your shoes back on whilst hopping out of the way of the people cramming through the queue behind you, while I'm in the air... works for me.
  47. At last by Mr_Icon · · Score: 1

    At last -- a definitive answer to the question "is that a banana in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"

    But did you *really* want to know?

    --
    If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
  48. Privacy Not Preserved by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What I'm carrying beneath my clothes is private. My privacy is not limited to just how well Nature has gifted the size and shape of my body's outline.

    This device could be better for some limited security tasks like scanning for weapons at building entrances. But let's not pretend that it's a cureall for invading privacy somehow without invading privacy. If we do. then it'll be in use everywhere, and privacy will be as gone as the emperor's new clothes.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Privacy Not Preserved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I'm carrying beneath my clothes is private.

      You mean, is your privates.

  49. Shine it on our government people by badzilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

    See if our emperors actually do have any clothes.

    --
    "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
    1. Re:Shine it on our government people by mbone · · Score: 1

      They do have clothes (even I can see that) but I bet that they have some sort of radio device under their clothes
      to feed them answers.

      I think that TeraHz imaging should be mandatory at all future presidential debates.

  50. Hijacking a plane 101 by jay-za · · Score: 1

    A friend and I enjoy occasionally looking at terrorist "threats" and seeing if we can do better ourselves. With all the knives and stuff being confiscated at airports these days, we concluded that you would have a good chance of actually hijacking a plane by simply taking the underwire out of a bra, sharpening it to razor sharpness, and using that as a knife.

    (Those slashdotters that have never seen a bra up close, it was an "underwire" that goes under each of the cups (the part where the breast goes) to provide support. In some bras this is plastic, in most it's an actual wire, and strong enough to be used as a weapon if sharpened.)

    Now, lets hope Fomeland Security doesn't read slashdot, or women passengers could be in for a few more unpleasant surprises when they go flying.

  51. Here's the reason by davidwr · · Score: 1

    If we don't, some clever terrorist will figure out a way to make explosive hand cream.

    For all we know, maybe it's already happened.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Here's the reason by idego · · Score: 1

      It already happened, fortunately we were all saved by the congratulatory hi-five.

  52. Turnaround is fair play by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    Well, if there's no problem with health risks, privacy risks and/or cost of using these devices routinely, it won't be a problem to stick one in the chamber where the security officers are, along with a normal camera if they get one too, and show everyone passing through the scanner the video feed, will it?

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  53. I wonder by Ecobady · · Score: 2, Insightful

    how long it takes after this thing is installed before all the attractive women develope cancer

  54. Privacy law by Benjamin_Wright · · Score: 1

    Given the law as it stands today, surveillance with T-rays may not be as legally risky as other forms of surveillance. http://hack-igations.blogspot.com/2008/03/robots-as-keepers-of-legal-records.html

    --
    Benjamin Wright, Dallas, Texas, benjaminwright.us
  55. How is that informative? by NiteShaed · · Score: 1

    Lots of people look at your bits with your permission;

    Lots? I'm assuming people who are paid to do it (not wives, girlfriends, etc), and it's been *years* since I had to take off my clothes so somebody could "look at my bits".
     

    doctors, correction facility officers, the military, visitation people at airports.

    Okay, I'll grant you doctors, but where the hell did you come up with the other ones? Corrections officers? If you're in prison and they want to strip search you, you're not giving your permission, you're submitting to a requirement that they'd otherwise carry out by force. I'm really not sure the military counts, what are you getting at with that one? Yes, you'd get undressed for a physical exam, but it's not like people will just walk up to you and tell you to drop your pants so they can have a quick look just for the hell of it. It's also beside the point since in many (most?) countries, military service is completely voluntary and the majority of the population is never a member. As for "visitation people at airports", I don't really know what that is. Airport security?
     

    You could get around the awkwardness easily by establishing a code of conduct, and special procedures (like, I only want to be seen by a woman - ok, get in this special line here).

    The U.S., Canada and everywhere else I've ever traveled (mostly western Europe) already do this. Oddly, people still don't seem to like invasive searches.
     

    But it would be expensive, and it would add a notch to the paycheck of the otherwise menial job of airport security officer. This technology is only being developed to avert payrises. Because T-ray /will/ be there at some point.

    It wouldn't be expensive, they already do it that way. Even if they didn't, how would it add to the paycheck of an "otherwise menial job"? These folks typically get paid by the hour, whether they're looking at an x-ray monitor or doing a strip search, they get paid the same. Perhaps you could make the argument the they need fewer people by using this gadget, but I doubt it. At this point, they hire the maximum number of security people they can afford. If they need less people doing searches because of a T-Ray camera, they'll just put the extra people on some other duty, they probably will not have less security people overall though.
    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  56. prior art by pak9rabid · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's nothin. The good folks in alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female have had this technology for years.

  57. Why not filter out the skin reflections entirely? by bestinshow · · Score: 1

    Right, so all these images go via a computer right?

    And skin emits a certain wavelength of these T-rays or whatever bunkum name they using?

    Is there any way for the machines to simply blank out that wavelength, which is surely different from metal (guns, knives), glass, plastics, etc.

    So all the operator would see is the guns, knives, bottles, wallet, etc, of someone walking past, but none of the body detail ...

    Well, maybe the computer could edge detect the body, then smooth that out, just so the operator has some context.

  58. Typo in title by nniillss · · Score: 1

    obviously it should have read: "... Preserves Private Parts".

  59. Give passenger prior review of image by dpbsmith · · Score: 1

    If these machines could do what they are supposed to do, then news stories would show examples of what the airport screener sees. They never do. So far, it's all been "trust us."

    An absolute minimum requirement on these machines is that they should at least have a display in them that shows the passenger being scanned exactly what image is being registered, and allows the passenger to decide for him- or herself whether privacy is being respected or not.

    That doesn't even get into question of whether the "modesty-preserving" algorithms can be disabled by the airport screener or not, whether the system stores uncensored images or not, how difficult it is for a randy hacker to disable the censorship feature, and, once hacked, how difficult it is for a randy non-expert employee to obtain and install the hack.

  60. Just lock the cockpit doors by clay_buster · · Score: 1

    9/11 couldn't happen again because the airlines were forced to put locked doors on the cockpit. Let the hijackers try digging through the door with their box cutters. Airlines fought the requirement for years before 9/11 because it was too expensive. The executives and regulators should have been called to task for this. The whole knife/scissors/sharp object prohibition is pointless for anything other than public relations.

  61. And we can all trust the TSA with this.. by Anonymous+Meoward · · Score: 1

    ..when the silly 'tards have trouble identifying a laptop.

    --
    --- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
  62. for all this trouble - new quotes! by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1
    Anything is succesful as weapon, it's how you use it.
    These quotes can sound a bit harsh, for sure created with a smile ;)

    • Cars don't kill people, people kill people!
    • Buy your friends from the comfort of your sofa!
    • Once I was afraid of dying, nowadays I am afraid of living!
    • We create your children!
    • A car! A car! My kingdom for a car!
    • Society v2.1: You ARE the contents of your wallet!
    • Better 1 government in the air than no air!
    • Your health is important to us, pay up to get more increased life-benefits!
    • Please fill in form 432B for that, but to get it you will need to fill in form 213B which requires form 432B, have a nice day!
    • We (c)(r)eate you(r) mental atmosphe(r)e!
    • Who watches the watchers who are watching them?
    • Get fast rich at the expense of a life, buy now in packs of 12, get 1 free!


    It has become to my attention all these security-theatre gadgets are being introduced in very short terms.
    Even surveillance is a weapon, it's either being used for the good or the bad.

    I could stretch this very far, there is no real definition of good or evil; only good and bad actions which cause good and bad consequences.

    It's happening everywhere, politicians smell it's possible and jump up the wagon, with bad consequences for the people in long term.
    If more people are not going to "get it" they are being bullied around and complain against this behavior, there will be soon no "people" anymore but "walking meat with a stamp".
    It's favoring those who are pushing the most with money for laws to be in the best conditions leaving the smaller/individual people in the blank.

    I think they got a word for that and we are all forced to be living towards those rules and none others... crazy! And that by the governments which are (partially) selected by the people .. for the people!
    I'd almost call such behavior Shenanigans! And don't even think I'm complaining about the States, I'm European and self-employed where laws are and proposals are being proposed in high-speeds towards the new sub-religion called "Terrorism".

    And that's not even everything, it's just a tip of the iceberg.
    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  63. clothing for privacy is a modern hangup by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Clothing is only a recent invention 50K years old. Humanimals lived millions of years without it. Anyone who goes to nude events finds the sexual allure wears off in hours if not minutes. The majority of people arent just not interesting nakid.

    Clothing is for warmth, support, style expression, avoiding dirt and scratches off, etc.

    1. Re:clothing for privacy is a modern hangup by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      Like it or not, clothing our delicate naked bodies plays a huge role in preserving most people's dignity. Or should I say, controlling whether or not you are wearing clothes plays a huge role in preserving dignity. You can be OK with nudism, but I'll bet you'd still get upset if someone took pictures of you naked without your consent and then did whatever they pleased with them.

      If not, then you do not represent the vast majority of people.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  64. Silly == affordable by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    don't see how a plastic bag makes make-up less dangerous though

    Actually there is a good reason for the plastic bag.

    The plastic bag is used as a quick way to confirm that the passenger is bringing on less than a certain total volume of liquids. You are allowed a single one quart bag, therefore it is obvious at a glance that you are carrying on considerably less than a quart of liquids or gel.

    It's not a foolproof way to keep terrorists from assembling a liquid bomb on board. It just means you need a larger number of suicide bombers at a go. If you reckon that you're most concerned with bombs made from a gallon or so, you theoretically could face four terrorists with quart bags stuffed to the gills with flexible 3 fl oz sachets of explosive gel. However it's pretty certain they'd attract attention. With "normal" payloads of toothpaste and and aftershave, you might need a lot more than four conspirators.

    This points out another aspect of the "mindless" security procedures. "Mindless" has its obvious disadvantages, as in the case of the elderly lady I once saw having her mascara confiscated, as if a couple cc of liquid was a deadly threat. On the other hand, the screeners are supposed to recognize that this is fifth or six guy they've checked in with a baggie stuffed full of trial size after shaves. Attention and judgment, like anything else, is a limited commodity, and it's not to be wasted on granting exceptions -- even reasonable exceptions -- to the rules. In fact, in a busy check-in, it's not really appropriate to chat up the screeners, much less engage them in a debate about whether the rules ought to apply to your mascara. It's not that you aren't right, it's that society can't afford to hire enough screeners to debate whether the rules should not apply to individual things.

    The place to debate this is where the rules are made, not where they are applied. In fact, rules tend to start out more inflexible than they need to be, because more flexible rules are more complex and have more borderline cases that could result in checkpoint debates.

    It comes down, in the end, to economics, and that's what people miss when they get frustrated by the absurdity of the rules. The point of the rules is to keep flying cheap as much as it is to keep it safe. That's the trade-off. Sure, we could dispense with the 3 fl oz container in a baggie rule and be just as safe,but we'd be paying somebody to open up that sixteen ounce bottle of pantene and sniff it. Sure, we could allow a half empty six fl oz bottle in the baggie, but then we'd have to pay the screener to eyeball it, and then argue with the passenger whether it's more than half empty or not.

    I don't buy the "focusing on many things" argument. It's really the number of parameters the screener must handle. The early version of the liquids rule was "no liquids at all"; logically, the class of banned items was larger, but the screener had only a single question to answer: is it liquid? For the convenience of the passengers, we now allow 3 fl oz bottles, and it's the relaxation of the rule that makes the inspection more complex. Taken to its extreme, the rule becomes simply, "don't let anything on the plane that might be dangerous." That rule goes without saying, but it's not an easy one to apply. Your anecdote of getting something through in your jacket doesn't prove anything, other than that things get through, which of course is true. It was true when the rules were much simpler, as on 9/11 when the box cutters didn't trigger anybody's suspicion.

    The truth is, if you wanted inspections to be more effective and cheaper, you'd just get tougher on the passengers. If they've got a 4 fl oz bottle, it goes right in the trash; if they argue, you assume they are creating a diversion and you give them and their companions a thorough inspection, even if it slows the line to a halt. Eventually, people would lea

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Silly == affordable by j_166 · · Score: 1

      Wow, that may be one of the first times I read a response to this issue on here that deviates from the knee-jerk "OMG ITS TEH POLICE STATE CAUSE THERE LOOKING IN MY STUFFS!!1!!".

      Nice work!

    2. Re:Silly == affordable by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      It's not a foolproof way to keep terrorists from assembling a liquid bomb on board. It just means you need a larger number of suicide bombers at a go.

      You need more agents, yes. And you need more money for plane tickets, yes. But you don't need more people willing to die for their cause. By separating security from boarding, then letting people mill around in a large area, you could easily walk onto a plane with a gallon of liquid. Simply have a bunch of agents booked for different flights leaving within the same window. If you're feeling really paranoid, arrange to meet at a busy hub like Chicago and arrive from different airports with layovers that happen to overlap. Each brings in the fraction of a quart of precursor chemicals in their carryon. Once inside they bump into each other. Two might use adjacent bathrooms stalls, and assuming no one busts them for signalling for gay sex, they just pass the chemicals between them. They could meet in one of the restaurants, passing things under the table. The suicide bomber collects the liquid in some sort of expanding container that he brought through empty.

      Sure, after the fact review of security video may reveal the connections, but at that point it's too late. A hub like Chicago is too large and too full of people to catch amazingly brief interactions between perhaps 20 people among the 190,000 passing through in a single day. Your agents don't even need to be dedicated members of your movement; since the risk to them is low you simply need to find someone psychopathic enough to take money for other people's lives.

      The current liquid restrictions are stupid. They only protects us from terrorists with enough money, knowledge, and connections to acquire to buy unusual liquid explosives, but not enough money, knowledge, and connections to buy 20 people plane tickets.

    3. Re:Silly == affordable by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Your anecdote of getting something through in your jacket doesn't prove anything, other than that things get through, which of course is true. It was true when the rules were much simpler, as on 9/11 when the box cutters didn't trigger anybody's suspicion. Your anecdote of the box cutters getting through on 9/11 also proves nothing since they weren't banned at the time.
      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    4. Re:Silly == affordable by maxume · · Score: 1

      Imagine if liquid explosives aren't a credible threat, then the inspections are doing nothing to increase safety at all, no matter how cheap they are. Imagine.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    5. Re:Silly == affordable by Mr.+Punch · · Score: 1

      And even better, you could have far more people doing it than you actually needed. By having such a distributed delivery system, you could afford to lose a large number of the things you were bringing in.

  65. Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    Anyone remember around 1999, when Sony camcorders were being recalled because their cameras could "see through clothing"?

    http://www.hoax-slayer.com/see-thru-lens.html

    http://www.kaya-optics.com/devices/sony_nightshot.shtml

    http://www.spy.th.com/camcorders3.html

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/H9/H9A.HTM

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/V3/V3A2.HTM

    Would any of this Sony technology have any silent (via shadow investors/subsidiaries) part in resurrecting Sony income stream? Would this technology in the news today be very good for random and equidistant surveillance points for bridges, office towers and infrastructure.

    I can imagine a whole new slew of patent-evading startups (not counting some failed or badly-focused ones in the SillyConJobAlley area just north of San Jose/Milpitas...). Might be JUST what Boston and Santa Clara need.

    However, if:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88031211&ft=1&f=1001

    is any indication, countries like the USA will have the hopeless task of putting such cameras EVERY WHERE (good for business income from DOD/DHLS contracts...) until policy or attitude toward people OUTside of the US changes.

    Maybe it WILL be good for police to use. Now, they will have no reason to cavity or strip search people. It could reduce the number of unjustified shootings/killings of people. No more claims of "S/he had what appeared to be a firearm aimed at me/my partner/a civilian bystander...". It could even protect police when approaching vehicles. No more being shot just for trying to issue a traffic citation for a vehicle code violation.

    Stores and offices could use them for silent reporting and logging of robberies or undesired proliferation of weapons in neighborhoods. I wouldn't be surprised if places like SF's Tenderloin and Bayview/Hunters Point and Fillmore district get these things.

    But, the train stations/undergrounds will be clamoring for federal funds (matching?/challenge grants?) to get these new gadgets installed.

    HEHEH.... Captcha: Positron (how coincidental...)

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  66. Do they have to be a certain model? by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    I get handy e-mails all the time with such sites! I can forward you a few ;)

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  67. Yeah, but the best part is: by Kingrames · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can't wait to see the T-ray kill a bunch of velocirays and then bellow loudly as a banner falls from the sky saying "When Privacy Ruled the Earth."

    --
    If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
  68. Re:Code of Conduct by rcamans · · Score: 1

    A serious percentage of these people are not currently following the current code of conduct, so why would they follow a new one. The current code of conduct is the Golden Rule, the social contract, etc. These airport screeners are already on the other side of those rules, as are the police, the military, the politicians, lawyers, etc. Many of them violate social contracts, and the law, as well as rules and codes of conduct, as often as they feel they can get away with it. Just look at the videos of cops beating people, shooting in the back, and even dumping a quadriplegics out of his wheelchair onto the floor. And you suggest that a code of conduct would have any effect on these characters? Man, you live in a dream world, can we come to stay?

    --
    wake up and hold your nose
  69. boxcutters by Carthag · · Score: 1

    I had a box cutter in my pencil case in 2002 while boarding a plane. Apparently that didn't matter, but they took my nail clippers & my aunt's knitting pins. They also went through my luggage as their explosive resin check machine went off.

  70. Nothing like... by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 1

    ... getting anonymously irradiated for my own "protection."

    1. Re:Nothing like... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      of course, there will be the usual line that T-rays in the amount produced by the device is harmless. companies profiting from this won't say tech too new to know if it is or not, nor does the government trying to cram perpetual state of fear down our throats so they can further their agenda with regards to lining their defense contract and security and petrofuel pockets.

    2. Re:Nothing like... by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 1

      And of course, no-one will ask any questions about the cumulative effects. Nor will they make analogies to x-rays being "safe" *except* for those under radiation treatment, or pregnant, or...

      How will this tech (or possibly the person running it) tell one person from the list above? This whole mentality is actually starting to get to the point where it endangers people's health (or that of the unborn child).

  71. foreign objects by BenBoy · · Score: 0
    to detect foreign objects under clothing, without revealing body details

    OK, but wait, how would this work if the person wearing the clothing was, say, a foreigner?

  72. About time - could have been in place 10 years ago by willllllllllll · · Score: 1
    About time - the Cybernetics Department at the University of Reading had T-Ray images up on their notice board from 1996, when I was doing my degree there back in 1999.

    For people who value their privacy, offer the choice; for T-Ray scans join the left-hand queue, for cavity searches join the right-hand queue, for full body X-rays lie down on the conveyor next to your hand luggage.

  73. The thing I don't get is... by BitterOak · · Score: 1

    All these technologies seem are advertised as being able to pass through clothes but are reflected by skin. What if I am wearing leather pants? Leather is made from skin. Will these devices see through those? Will I have to take my pants off if the scanner can't see through them? What about leather underwear? Mind you, I don't normally wear leather clothing, but it may be a way to protect your privacy at airports.

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  74. somehow this is about terrorism by cavebison · · Score: 1

    But while we're on the subject..

    The sad thing about this kind of terrorism is that, somewhere under the concern for public safety, there's an epidemic of people committing suicide because they're being taught to. Where's the public focus on that? Where are the Help Lines for people so affected by their religion/cult that they're thinking about suicide?

    It reminds me of "Waco" a little, in that this is a culture of very isolated, indoctrinated people. In their hearts they are not "evil" people, or indeed doing anything wrong. That's a major crime right there, turning a human being into that - a machine of war and politics. They need to be convinced that they are dying for politics and hatred, not for their religion, which is one of peace, as much as any religion is.

    Just seems logical, nevermind humane, to me, to address that as part of the "war on terror". For it's also a war being waged on the minds of these young people, by enclaves of their own people. At that level it's criminal exploitation and slavery, and should be discussed widely as such, so young people don't mindlessly fall for it. Again these things come down to education.. an educated society doesn't go quite that astray, and the West has let these countries putrefy while we ride on their backs so here we are.. but that's another topic.

  75. hiding liquids by Hooptyjr · · Score: 0

    Just tape a soda to your chest and wear a puffy jacket

  76. OMG, AIR!! by Reziac · · Score: 1

    Guess we better ban air, then... it's what, 78% nitrogen?? who knows what sort of evil explosives one could create from that, especially considering the high oxygen content of the remaining air!!

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  77. Re:Why not filter out the skin reflections entirel by geekoid · · Score: 1

    emits? It's probably a receiver looking at a spectrum that's passes through the body. whether or not part of the device broadcasts this frequency through the body to a receiver, or the receiver is just getting natural things that pass through the body I don't know.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  78. Yes, yes. by mbessey · · Score: 1

    There are explosives that get some/most of their bang from Nitrogen - azides, hydrazines, maybe half a dozen or so more-exotic things. However, I was responding to someone who was saying that anything with enough nitrogen can be made into an explosive.

  79. MODS: Please rethink your designation. by znerk · · Score: 1

    While this is funny at first glance, it's actually an insightful post.
    Tin foil hats aside, we're not allowed to say the word "bomb" in an airport. Actually looking up information on how to get a bomb through airport security... Water boarding ftw!

    --
    This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
  80. infrared? by mikef777 · · Score: 1

    T-rays lie on the electromagnetic spectrum between infrared and microwaves According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Light_spectrum.png, T-rays are considered to be infrared... .1 - 10 Thz definately looks like the middle of infrared to me....i guess t-ray just sounds cooler.