Maybe useful for someone...I bought a shiny new iBook G4 yesterday, and installed all of the updates. Saw the Airport update and Security update today and installed them.
Now, the Finder doesn't run on it's own. It has to be manually started from
SCO's win or loss will not affect wether I use Linux or not. I've got an up to date copy of the Linux kernel, and I'll keep getting the most current version until a court of law says that it's no longer legal to distribute. Even then, I'll seek overseas servers to obtain it from. I really doubt the cops are going to come in and forcibly install Windows on my computer.
Furthermore, the fate of the Linux kernel has very little to do with the rest of my Free Software system.
But whatever, who cares. SCO is going to lose anyway, so it's immaterial.
I'd say SGI. SCO said it was someone with a UNIX license and will include copyright claims. SGI did have that little triffle with the memory code that was written for an arch that was never actually sold and thus never compiled into binary form and run on a real piece of hardware.
SGI is also a Linux contributor, and McBride once said that they'll have their day in court with SGI (or words to that effect).
Aren't there already open source compilers and runtimes for Java (blackdown, etc)? What was it ESR wanted?
Blackdown is not Free Software, and is Open Source. It's a binary only implimentation that some linux guys had to sign an NDA to create.
It's no more what ESR wanted than the ingredients to a cup of coffee.
ESR makes a good point, and a good plea. What exactly is Sun gaining by keeping Java? They could pull a Star/OpenOffice with it. All of the things that you can currently download free from java.sun.com or java.com dual license GPL/SISSL, the things that they charbe for (ie, the application server that's priced at 10k/cpu) they can still charge ungodly ammounts of cash for. Anybody who was willing to pay for it before, would still be willing after.
Why not? Everybody's happy, everybody wins. Sun wins, ESR wins, GNU and RMS win, Linux wins, Apache wins, Apple wins. Everyone except Microsoft. And wasn't that kind of the point of Java in the first place?
Actually, I believe (or speculate rather) that it's a determination based on the licensing involved. MS openly admits to having lots of BSD code in Windows.
The TCP/IP stack is a huge example, not to mention SFU.
I bought my Rio Karma yesterday and it pretty much rocks my world.
I had a little trouble starting off because the java app they included for transfering songs (only for non-windows) was corrupting files in the transfer.
If you get the new one from the website (they say it's 1.02 but it's really 1.01) it works like a charm.
The 1.5G models are a novelty I think. For just a little bit more you can get a much larger capacity. Also with the 1.5G you have to decide what you want to take with you today. With the 20G Karma I take everything that I bother to care about.
Linux on the desktop is a long long way off from being as easy to use for beginners as windows is
Um, he didn't say 10 years to make Linux easy to use. He said it would be 5-10 years for it to be mainstream.
GNOME and KDE are both equally as easy to use as Windows is. It's just different.
I've been running Debian with WindowMaker for 4 years . Every one of my friends who aren't even sure what Linux is will admit that my computer is no harder to use than any other, once they understand that it's not Windows and they have to click something different to get what they want.
I also have several friends who have converted and are running Fedora or Mandrake on their own home system. Do they ever call for help? Yes. Would they have called if they were running Windows? They always do.
Or, for all you know, it's because the evidence is difficult to produce in such a manner a judge can make sense of. A geek can look at code and say "Yep, that was copied." whereas a judge could look at code and say "programming can be a very exact process, it's possible the code just ended up being similar"
I'm not defending SCO here, I'm merely pointing out that making a bet that they don't have evidence is irresponsible. Goofy things can happen in a court room.
The problem is that SCO hasn't even done that. They haven't even told IBM what this case is about except for vague. The way SCO explains things, all of the code I've ever written is SCO property because I learned C from the white book. The judge can't say "that looks similar" until there are two things to look at. So far SCO hasn't provided crap.
If that's still too complex for you to understand, let me simplify it for you:
IBM: Please tell us what this case is about. SCO: No! You must first give us all source code to every iteration of AIX and Dynix! IBM: Bite me.
It's been my experience that most people using cell phones are in contracts and unable to leave their current carrier even if they wanted to. Of those who have gone past their contracts, they are reluctant to change because they don't want to be stuck in another contract for a year or two years. Most providers will do anything and everything they can to slap you back into a contract.
Debian has backported it to its 2.4.18 stable kernel. Presumably other distros will follow suit.
Yes, they have now, after they got rooted. If there had been an official security announcement about it instead of "oh, let's just throw it in the next version" then those systems would have been patched before they were attacked.
My point is that there should have been an advisory put out, patches created and boxes secured before anyone got rooted.
I will however give Andrew and Marcello the benifit of the doubt, that they figured it was just a bug and not exploitable. Humans make mistakes, and I accept that. I hope that developers in general (not just the Kernel developers) will learn from this mistake and be more careful in the future.
I don't mean to burst your bubble, bash Theo or OpenBSD, but I read Bugtraq daily, and I can't count the number of exploitable bugs reported in the OpenBSD kernel over the past few weeks, but it would probably take both hands and at least one foot. Linux however, iirc, had somewhere about 3. Given this info, I wouldn't be so hot to boast about OpenBSD's QA process.
I repeat, I'm not trying to bash OpenBSD. Just trying to bring a little balance to the arguement. OpenBSD is an excellent choice for an operating system, but it's designed by humans. Humans make mistakes.
The real flaw in what happened with this exploit is that there were no backport patches created. When the ptrace vuln came out I was able to patch my 2.4.19 and 2.4.20 systems right away, I didn't have to wait for the next release to come out in order to get a working fix.
This should trun into a plea to the developers, if a bug is discovered through the normal course of development that is potentially serious enough for older kernels, it should be brought out into the open and the fix backported.
I for one really don't give a rip if retailers throw a hissy over this. When I search the web it's because I want information, not because I want to buy something.
If I want to buy something I use Froogle. That's what it's there for.
Slashdot Mirror
Now, the Finder doesn't run on it's own. It has to be manually started fromWell, that's that.
SCO's win or loss will not affect wether I use Linux or not. I've got an up to date copy of the Linux kernel, and I'll keep getting the most current version until a court of law says that it's no longer legal to distribute. Even then, I'll seek overseas servers to obtain it from. I really doubt the cops are going to come in and forcibly install Windows on my computer.
Furthermore, the fate of the Linux kernel has very little to do with the rest of my Free Software system.
But whatever, who cares. SCO is going to lose anyway, so it's immaterial.
I'd say SGI. SCO said it was someone with a UNIX license and will include copyright claims. SGI did have that little triffle with the memory code that was written for an arch that was never actually sold and thus never compiled into binary form and run on a real piece of hardware.
SGI is also a Linux contributor, and McBride once said that they'll have their day in court with SGI (or words to that effect).
Aren't there already open source compilers and runtimes for Java (blackdown, etc)? What was it ESR wanted?
Blackdown is not Free Software, and is Open Source. It's a binary only implimentation that some linux guys had to sign an NDA to create.
It's no more what ESR wanted than the ingredients to a cup of coffee.
ESR makes a good point, and a good plea. What exactly is Sun gaining by keeping Java? They could pull a Star/OpenOffice with it. All of the things that you can currently download free from java.sun.com or java.com dual license GPL/SISSL, the things that they charbe for (ie, the application server that's priced at 10k/cpu) they can still charge ungodly ammounts of cash for. Anybody who was willing to pay for it before, would still be willing after.
Why not? Everybody's happy, everybody wins. Sun wins, ESR wins, GNU and RMS win, Linux wins, Apache wins, Apple wins. Everyone except Microsoft. And wasn't that kind of the point of Java in the first place?
Actually, I believe (or speculate rather) that it's a determination based on the licensing involved. MS openly admits to having lots of BSD code in Windows.
The TCP/IP stack is a huge example, not to mention SFU.
No, but it does have an option to provide focus follows mouse (they call it X-Mouse) a-la X.
We shall see who has the last laugh.
It's funny you say that. I haven't used IE in about 4 years.
But I wonder what's so broken about Opera's javascript implimentation that it can't do those things.
Oh well, sucks to be you.
yes, but then there's that stupid bouncing navigation(?) bar. That thing's hideious.
IHT? Yuck. Side scrolling javascript web pages that call columns "pages" is almost as bad as requiring a subscription.
You sicken me man.
Here's the NY Times link for anybody that is too lazy to reconstruct it yourself.
"That's Darl McBride, president and CEO of the SCO Group, a perennial loser at selling UNIX"
:-)
Nice
I bought my Rio Karma yesterday and it pretty much rocks my world.
I had a little trouble starting off because the java app they included for transfering songs (only for non-windows) was corrupting files in the transfer.
If you get the new one from the website (they say it's 1.02 but it's really 1.01) it works like a charm.
The 1.5G models are a novelty I think. For just a little bit more you can get a much larger capacity. Also with the 1.5G you have to decide what you want to take with you today. With the 20G Karma I take everything that I bother to care about.
Linux on the desktop is a long long way off from being as easy to use for beginners as windows is
Um, he didn't say 10 years to make Linux easy to use. He said it would be 5-10 years for it to be mainstream.
GNOME and KDE are both equally as easy to use as Windows is. It's just different.
I've been running Debian with WindowMaker for 4 years . Every one of my friends who aren't even sure what Linux is will admit that my computer is no harder to use than any other, once they understand that it's not Windows and they have to click something different to get what they want.
I also have several friends who have converted and are running Fedora or Mandrake on their own home system. Do they ever call for help? Yes. Would they have called if they were running Windows? They always do.
IF IT WERE OPEN!
I'm not defending SCO here, I'm merely pointing out that making a bet that they don't have evidence is irresponsible. Goofy things can happen in a court room.
The problem is that SCO hasn't even done that. They haven't even told IBM what this case is about except for vague. The way SCO explains things, all of the code I've ever written is SCO property because I learned C from the white book. The judge can't say "that looks similar" until there are two things to look at. So far SCO hasn't provided crap.
If that's still too complex for you to understand, let me simplify it for you:
if this were run on an existing Debian system. Hmmm...
to shut up all of the idiots that have never used iTunes.
windows will HAVE to support those filesystems.
Oh, yea right. Some manufactuer in Tiwan of some cheap silicon memory stick is giong to force Microsoft to do anything. I can't wait.
The problem with that is all free filesystems are not supported by Windows.
Perhaps IBM can open HPFS.
It's been my experience that most people using cell phones are in contracts and unable to leave their current carrier even if they wanted to. Of those who have gone past their contracts, they are reluctant to change because they don't want to be stuck in another contract for a year or two years. Most providers will do anything and everything they can to slap you back into a contract.
Debian has backported it to its 2.4.18 stable kernel. Presumably other distros will follow suit.
Yes, they have now, after they got rooted. If there had been an official security announcement about it instead of "oh, let's just throw it in the next version" then those systems would have been patched before they were attacked.
My point is that there should have been an advisory put out, patches created and boxes secured before anyone got rooted.
I will however give Andrew and Marcello the benifit of the doubt, that they figured it was just a bug and not exploitable. Humans make mistakes, and I accept that. I hope that developers in general (not just the Kernel developers) will learn from this mistake and be more careful in the future.
incidentally, two hands an a foot usually have - at most - 15 fingers; you really can't count that high?
A more pressing question: you have fingers on your feet?
I don't mean to burst your bubble, bash Theo or OpenBSD, but I read Bugtraq daily, and I can't count the number of exploitable bugs reported in the OpenBSD kernel over the past few weeks, but it would probably take both hands and at least one foot. Linux however, iirc, had somewhere about 3. Given this info, I wouldn't be so hot to boast about OpenBSD's QA process.
I repeat, I'm not trying to bash OpenBSD. Just trying to bring a little balance to the arguement. OpenBSD is an excellent choice for an operating system, but it's designed by humans. Humans make mistakes.
The real flaw in what happened with this exploit is that there were no backport patches created. When the ptrace vuln came out I was able to patch my 2.4.19 and 2.4.20 systems right away, I didn't have to wait for the next release to come out in order to get a working fix.
This should trun into a plea to the developers, if a bug is discovered through the normal course of development that is potentially serious enough for older kernels, it should be brought out into the open and the fix backported.
I for one really don't give a rip if retailers throw a hissy over this. When I search the web it's because I want information, not because I want to buy something.
If I want to buy something I use Froogle. That's what it's there for.
Quick, patent that! You'll be rich!