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Dcube: Portable Audio With Ogg And A Scroll Wheel
Slowtreme writes "There have been many attempts recently to cash in on Apple's iPod success. Napster, Dell, and others have made iPod clones. This Korean Dcube looks like they are going all out. With 1.5 gig, Ogg and MP3 support, grey scale display, USB2.0, wireless, FM radio, it looks like a nice device. Most noticeable however is the scroll wheel, Apple holds patents (pending) on scroll wheel design. How much noise will this make?" (The Napster-branded one is actually a Samsung product; Samsung, too, is supporting Ogg Vorbis in some models, though not in that one.)
I mean, c'mon... IT'S A WHEEL!!!
We've been using wheels for input since, well, since forever! Those big round things that have been on ships for centuries and centuries? They're wheels! They translate rotation into linear input. What's that thing on the iPod? It's a wheel! It translates rotation into linear input!
Hello???
Fucking Steve Jobs thinks he's patented the fucking wheel! And you know who's to blame? That other fucking idiot, Jeff Bezos, with the infinitely moronic One-Click patent. The two dufuses are slugging it out, vying to be the one who holds the world's most ridiculous patent!
None of this would be possible if it weren't for the fact that the people working at the USPTO seem to have been genetically engineered to be utterly devoid of critical thinking skills! I mean, hiring the merely stupid would not do, because at least then there's a chance of a ridiculous idea being rejected. It's like we cross-bred a human being with a rock, gave it a diploma for knowing how to inhale before exhaling, and then shipped the result off to Washington so it could have an "APPROVED" stamp crazy-glued into it's rat-like claw!
And I'm paying taxes for this???
ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
I would like to see more MP3 makers use FireWire. I speed of updates is very nice. When I got my iPod my whole mp3 collection was on it in less then 20 minutes. (ok I have a small 10Gb collection) But with speeds like this I can run a program off of it, or store large data files off of it. Also the iPod is more then just a mp3/aac/what ever player, it makes a great portable hard drive. I don't use the Pim stuff off of it because I have a good Palm, but that is another story.
Rio Karma supports Ogg-Vorbis and FLAC files already, is 20gig, and can be had for less than $250. Where's the justification for buying a 1.5gig player? Apple is on crack and the Dell is just a rebadged Creative Labs Nomad Zen.
:(
BTW: IRiver also makes an Ogg-capable portable, several of them, but their 20gig model is about $399.
When I hear OGG, I immeidately think that it must be whack, but slashbots constantly say that won't buy something unless it supports OGG. Is it like 220V power or USB something? What is it? good or whack?
If this is cheap enough, I'll definitely buy it.
The one thing still preventing me from buying a portable audio player is the price.
I don't need 20GB of music in my pocket, 1,5GB is more than enough for me.
The path I walk alone is endlessly long.
30 minutes by bike, 15 by bus.
It even LOOKS iPod-ish
My wife would love the FM recording, too.
I'm on a chair.
It's great to see a relatively unknown company come out with a (hopefully) great product that can compete with the big boys.
I've had a couple generic MP3 players over the years, but nothing that could compete with an iPod.
My lack of God, it's Trotsky!
It's also kinda funny that, on the web page, the device's display shows a couple of Beatles songs. (The Beatle's record label is Apple Corps)
They consider those to be a derivative of their single button patent 3 times over.
I never fail to be amazed at how often companies try to copy Apple's design only to produce a product that looks similar but is noticably uglier.
It's like on Charles in Charge where one of the sisters was noticeably hotter than the other one, and yet in one episode the ugly sister won a beauty contest just to show that there's more to a person than looks but that didn't change the fact that everybody still would rather jump the hotter sister.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Any Roland/Akai/EMU rack-mount synth or sampler.
Ha! Apple should be happy if they aren't sued because of patent infringement. The australians patented the wheel before them.
How hard would it be to have, instead of a wheel, a thin strip of the stuff they use for touchpads in laptops (god, how I hate them, give me a trackball anytime) on the side to replace the functionality of said wheel?
I don't think it'd be TOO hard, and the results would probably be good.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
You forgot to call them "Apple iPod clones," because hey, Apple was the first company ever to come up with a portable MP3 player.
http://www.nextway.co.kr/images/products/temp.jpg
On the DCude site. It looks like their hand model must be having a heart attack off-camera; if the picture gets slashdotted, just imagine a hand with fingers contorted into a clawed husk, with the nice little dCube in the center of the hand.
Looks very freaky.
IMHO, these are the real iPod killers out there. Very similar in size and shape, sleek design, cheaper (at third-party retail sites) for the same capacity model, and with twice the battery life, better PC support (windows and linux), FM tuner, recording equipment, and OGG support for those who care. No dock, though. ;-)
I am *not* an Atomic Playboy, but I *am* a cheese-eating surrender-monkey!
Babelfish Translation of the Korean Product page
However don't set your expectations too high, it seems they still need to work a bit on their Korean translation engine:
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
I realize they're pricey, but stop running and accept that you'll eventually pay extra to get an iPod. Stop running to the ends of the earth for every "iPod-killer" to come down the block. The amount of money you'll spend on each new pale substitute will be so much more than you'd spend on the iPod, which works so well with iTunes. This is an intervention, my friend.
OGG PLAYER
With this you can play the Russian National Anthem AND run Linux!
This lappy is a bitch in flight tho.
That isn't a scroll wheel it is a bunch of buttons in the shape of a circle with a button in the middle.
Maybe I'm missing the point here, but my Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has a scroll wheel on it which I can use to scroll to songs, and generally navigate the interface, and I'm pretty sure this predates the iPod...
Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
i didnt see anything about the price....are these gonna be in the hundred dollar range that people thought the new ipods would be in?
NaTe
Don't confuse this Dcube with NEC's D-Cube .
My lack of God, it's Trotsky!
As regards portable music playback devices, don't compare apples and ogg ranges.
I imagine that Apple will consider that device a knock-off of the iPod and file suit. If the device stays in Korea, then perhaps there won't be a problem, but I can't picture Apple letting that thing show up on store shelves in the USA without a fight.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Where can I get one before Apple crushes them?
OGG PLAYER
With this you can play the Russian National Anthem AND run Linux!
This lappy is a bitch in flight tho.
Anything invented by OOG the OpenSouce Caveman is allright by me!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Ogg is simply a better codec than MP3. The codec simply makes music sound better when played back. In MP3, you get audio artifacts (usually higher frequencies). Ogg/Vorbis attempts to minimize this, and the result is simply a better codec. The downside to Ogg is that it takes a fairly hefty processor for a mobile player to reproduce the sound. Thus, the player costs more because you're using a faster/more complex processor. For audiophiles, Ogg is a very good thing. For budget listeners, MP3 is a compromise.
I'm sorry, but a scroll wheel is what sits between my left and right mouse buttons. Pick another name OKTHXBYE
And actually, the jog dial was on the beocom 6000 cordless phone. It's used for the same functions -- to select a name from a big list and to navigate menus -- so I don't see how using it on an mp3 player would be different than using it on a phone.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
WHACK
I always wondered why more manufacturers don't put an FM radio in their players (some do). It doesn't cost much more (probably a couple of bucks at this point) and it's quite handy.
Since this one supports OGG, MP3 and has an FM radio I'd certainly consider buying one if the price is right.
Where can I buy one?
FINALLY - an MP3 player with a digital FM tuner. Is this the only one? It's the only one I've seen.
I'm a 2000 man.
My prediction is that this will happen.
You've got to love those underscores in the song titles! :)
They're seriously apeing the iPod's look quite a bit with this one, though -- down to the white earbuds.
mbbac
Why is this interesting? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USB2 (a bit) faster?
*scratches head*
and can be had for less than $250
WHERE?!
*sigh*
OOoo Ogg is open source! It's free! It sounds so much better! Screw that nobody uses it, get off your high horse and download some MP3's.
NO! Nonononono. Dude. Come on.
This is Slashdot. "I don't need 20 GB of music".. of course you don't need it. But you will demand it. As a... nerd, or something.
Now suck it up, and demand a 1 ounce 50GB overmediaplayer with a folding plasma screen and support for Ogg Stupidname. For $50. It is your goddammed right!
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
IMO, the US patent system has basically desceneded into little more than a registry service. By submitting a patent you're declaring, "I had this idea on this date." There doesn't really seem to be all that much checking going on to see if the idea is actually patentable in the first place.
I see things like this "scroll wheel" patent as an example of the ridiculous things that get rubber stamped at the patent office. It's not as if Apple invented the scroll wheel/jog dial. They've been avaible on VCR's, DAT's, etc for quite a long time. That leaves two things their patent could cover:
1) Using a scroll wheel with *gasp* mp3s.
2) The specfic details of how their scroll wheel interface works.
(1) would be a junk patent. (2) would either be so broad it was a junk patent, or so specfic as to be worthless.
Life is too short to proofread.
I wish a player had AM support, I never listen to FM and in my area AM has all the good sports radio and talk radio shows.
A good FYI and discussion can be found Here
"It's Ogg. It's Ogg. It's big. It's heavy. It's wood."
Isn't that an old Ren and Stimpy song?
No, wait. That was _log_.
Because it's an iPod.
The reasons that I can just say that, and lots of people know what I mean, is the answer to your question.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Jesus, calm down! You're fiestier than Howard Dean on speed!
Just read the FAQ and all will be made clear to you.
AC.
I bought a second generation 20GB iPod soon after they came out. However, I now have more music than I can fit on it and I'm getting interested in re-ripping my tracks at higher quality or even investigating FLAC. Also, Apple is doing me a disservice by preventing me from using Ogg-Vorbis which I still think is superior to LAME's output. If I download .oggs, I then have to go through decompression and another round of lossy compression to create mp3s that will play on my iPod.
As such, I'm very interested in the latest releases of hard-drive based mp3 players. I especially like the look of the iRiver players and I'm hoping to try out my friend's new Rio Karma. Nevertheless, I will have to save up again if I want to get a new player and there are a few minimum feature requirements I can't help thinking would be easy to include on a new player.
I don't give a shit for ITMS compatibility or crappy organiser-style features or games. I just want to be able to fit all my songs in my pocket and find the right tunes to play when on the train. Is it really too much to ask?
Turkeyphant
For the love of all that is holy... The Beatles and NSync on the same PLAYLIST?!?!?!? WTF? =)
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Try going to thier site and reading What the Fuck "Ogg Vorbis" means.
My last MP3 player was a Compaq IPAQ-1. Compaq stopped supporting it and I had a lot of problems trying to get their software to work on Win 2000/XP/20003. I can't just copy my music to its memory cards because guess what? It is stored in a proprietary format. That means you need to have their software which means that if they go out of business or don't support your OS, your nice little gadget is worthless!
With my NexIIe, I can just plug the device in via a USB cable to my computer and it shows up as a disk drive. I can copy music files (or even copy other files for storage). If I want better performance, instead of connecting the NexIIe, I just pull the CompactFlash card and put it into a card reader. I use no tool more complicated than explorer to manage my music.
The current firmware even supports CF up to 2GB. I don't see why you would want a 2GB hard drive when you could have 2GB of solid state. That said, it would be nice to have a 10+ GB version of my player.
Evolution: love it or leave it
freekin' new mp3/ogg player that comes along HAVE to be Slashdot Front Page news?
Can we wait until the damn things are actually AVAILABLE TO BUY first?
These things are a dime-a-dozen, and not one of them is yet an iPod killer.
Apple Legal AHOY!
Hate to mention it (again and again) but the Neuros 20GB model does everything that this promises to do, and you can buy it today for $200. http://www.neurosaudio.com/ Yes, it is bulky, but it does OGG, FM radio record, FM transmit, and a bunch of other stuff. Plus it has a nice Linux app.
USB 2 is popular now, but it is very new, especially on laptops.
For my money my favorite is still the Neuros
Rio's past players and products have a shitty track record though. I'll wait to see how long the Karma's last before investing. Great to hear it has FLAC support.
-- taking over the world, we are.
It doesn't work with iTunes! Next article please. Thankyou.
are going to be models with gigantic hands
I recently have been ripping files from my CDs to my harddrive in Linux in Ogg format, and I have wanted to purchase one of these players. But the advertisements I have seen for the players all mention the use of Windows software. Do I have to use Windows in order to transfer the Ogg files to the player? Or can I do it from Linux? I'm confused, I've Googled, and I can't seem to find an answer on this. Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me the 411 on this.
We shall take Ogg Vorbis to New Hampshire! And South Carolina! And New Mexico! And California! And then we'll take it to Washington, DC! AND TAKE BACK THE IPODS AND WINAMP JUKEBOXES IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!
sulli
RTFJ.
Ok, this thing certainly has A TYPE of scroll wheel. And yes, Apple has patents for its own version of a scroll wheel - as well as the way the wheel itself works and how it works specifically with the i-pod. It could be that this company has absolutely ripped Apple off.
But Apple isn't suing anyone or releasing statements detailing its intentions to do so just yet, mnk? Lots of things have scroll wheels. My mouse has one. I don't think we can patent a simple hardware control itself. i mean, why not patent a toggle switch if that were the case?
How about we wait and get just a LITTLE more information before we start branding patents as ridiculous or, on the other end, start a wildly speculative crusade to protect Apple's intellectual property.
** Chigusaaa!!! You're the coolest girl in the WORLD!!! **
On this page in the flash banner, it lists it as "FM Transmitter".
I think that's quite a cool feature. Maybe it does both? Dunno... but thats nice to have an FM link built in so I can just carry it in my pocket but listen to it on my car stereo without connecting it to another little box.
Who gives a flying crap about OGG. It's always like Linux users to root for the underdog. In this case however, OGG means shit in the "real" world.
+5 Troll and +2 Flamebait modifiers.
Erm . . .
:)
Surely the point is that this *isn't* an iPod? And one of the reasons I chose a Karma was that it, also, is not an iPod. Don't want to be associated with shoddy kit like that
P
It has buttons arranged in a circle formation around a central button, but the space in between is not a control surface. As with many other asian product knock-offs, it is designed to look like the ipod, not necessarily perform like it.
well, looks he was exagerating, unless ebay has some.
& i=
$259 (after $20 mail in rebate) + free shipping according to pricewatch.com at:
http://www.shopharmony.com/product.asp?file=PWA
And here is what babelfish thinks it says about "FMT":
The dimensions are comparable to iPod.
The iPod mini is 3.6 by 2.0 by 0.5 inches
The iPod 15GB and 20GB is 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.62 inches
The iPod 40GB is 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.73 inches
The D-cube is 88 by 48 by 19 mm (3.46 by 1.88 by 0.74 inches) using the conversion chart
So, the DCube is smaller in height and width compared to the mini although almost as thick as the 40GB iPod.
Free XBox, PS2
I have to say that design wise, it looks like a poor cheap imitation of the iPod. The iPod is expensive and there are better specced mp3 players out there. the rio karma is an excellent example (mp3,ogg, flac) and inclusion of ethernet socket along with all the other usual connectors. Some people claim the software management software is a little ropey, but at least it works with Linux as well and Win32 and OSX.
...
I would personally prefer something like this than something that is such a failing iPod lookalike Wannabe.
It would be nice if the iPod were a bit cheaper and had Ethernet, Ogg and Flac support to boot. But it aint. I like iPods! They look and feel exquisite, but there are other reasons to buy a product like this and apart from design, function is also pretty important.
As it is im stuck with a crappy CD based MP3 player. When I get a job ill be getting one, although i havent decided to go with the one that looks nice (iPod) or the one that supports those extra file formats and has an ethernet jack(karma).
nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Your prices are off. Its like $350 retail and online about $290-$300 from dealers who are not trying to misled you by taking the $20 rebate off the actual price.
Too much to point out... but the iPod is completely overrated as are most Apple products.
I have an iRiver iHP-120. After comparing all the drive based models and found that the price/feature balance was better represented with the iRiver.
Wrong! For audiophiles, FLAC is the very good thing. Ogg is compromise. (MP3 is a joke.)
This is incidentally why paid-for music downloads are a waste of time.
You're paying through the nose for sorely inadequate sound quality. (WMA? That joke's so bad it's not funny!) HPH
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Let me guess you are one of those idiots that spends 2x 3x on t-shirts/hats simply to advertise for a company...
Do you want to use the damn thing to listen to music or as a status symbol?
Try buying some music sometime.
.ogg is just plain silly.
If you buy CDs and rip them yourself using anything besides
ogg > mp3
Any questions?
Uhmm, WTF are you talking about? Ogg will decode on a freaking SuperSparc 50Mhz with pretty much no lagging. Given the performance of modern embedded processors anything 32bit at 75+ mhz should have no problem with ogg, even less if they use the non-fp decoder. -- vranash
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
I think that the scroll wheel patent would be a pretty minor point in Apple's legal whacking of this device. Its design is an obvious copy of the iPod, and would be actionable under industrial design law. Apple successfully sued EMachines for ripping off the iMac design, and this looks like even more of a rip-off than their machines did.
...in an MP3 player that can transfer data at rates anywhere close to either Firewire or USB2.
On paper it's great to argue the case, but the drive in the MP3 player is where the data ends up, and if it's not as fast as the connection... well that's your bottleneck.
So, the arguement should be "I'd like to see faster drives in MP3 players so we can utilise the already fast enough interface"
Wrong! For audiophiles, FLAC is the very good thing.
How does that make him wrong? You're not making any sense!
makes no mention of the ipod lookalike (NHD-150D). Perhaps they can get away with copying the ipod interface in Korea because of differing IP laws?
The english site link:
http://nextway.co.kr/english/
Sounds like a rapper
not to be funny (i run my iPod on Linux) - but does the Karma play nicely on linux?
Whew. There for a second I thought you were going to say that Josie Davis (ugly sister) was hotter than Nicole Eggert.
Then I thought - hmm, what did she look like. Hey hey! Doesn't look like she turned out too bad .
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
If there's no firewire, it doesn't compete with iPod.
Period.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Where are the independent double-blind listening tests that will actually confirm your assertions?
How does AAC compare to Ogg/Vorbis ? (when encoded as same bitrate settings)
Sorry to go around Slashdot being some kind of mp3-champion but i think it gets an unfair bashing around here sometimes. The LAME team (which I'm not part of) has put an enormous amount of effort into getting transparency at around 200kbps and to say otherwise is doing them a disservice I feel. It is true however that the design of MP3 as a spec has some limitations which are not completely solved even by using very high bitrates, for example, however your post exaggerates the severity of these in real situations. OK I'm done :)
OT: How do you spell art[e/i]facts anyway? :)
This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.
Yeah, but the people who know what you mean don't need the answer to the question. Elucicate, oh mystical one.
XML causes global warming.
I'll have to get one of my wives relatives to send me one. :)
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
"Don't underestimate the convenience. 20 gig is enough for many people to rip and download all of their CDs. "
I have a 30G iPod. It hold about 25% of my CD collection. Fortunately, the firewire connection means I only need an hour to change the music, but I wish I had about 200G to play with in my iPod.
Talk about an open-and-shut case. This thing will never see the light of day looking like it looks in those photos. You can bet the farm on it. Apple Legal will have a C&D out to these guys in no time.
THAT'S NO CUBE
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
You mean, "How is it different from a scroll wheel on a mouse?"
Rio Karmas are the slickest players out there imho.. it even has a fricken ethernet port. Also a big screen and good interface design. In case you didnt know, Rio was bought out and resembles the old rio in name only so the previous customer failures shouldn't hound the new company. People are so convinced iPods are the greatest thing in the world that they dont even consider competition to it. My girlfriend wanted to get me an mp3 player for christmas and after much research i decided on the karma. She thought she would suprise me and bought the more expensive iPod and I was blown away at first. After playing with it for awhile im not too impressed. Sound quality is shite, interface is very intelligent tho, although its the one with the touch pad wheel which is neet at first until you try to use it while walking or something. iTunes tho is total crap and pisses me off to no end. And per the original topic, 1.5G??? what self respecting geek finds that useful..
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
>>stop running and accept that you'll eventually pay extra to get an iPod
Nosir, let me assure you I won't.
When Apple chose to put politics above business decisions by naming Al Gore to their Board of Directors, I swore off purchasing Apple products forever. As if a man who has never held a non-government job is going to have much to offer a corporation in terms of leadership. And before you think I'm merely a partisan, let me say that I'd feel the same way if it was any other lifelong politican from ANY political party. I believe that Gore's position on the Board exists solely to gain Apple political influence, and that's wrong.
Problem is, it's not just Apple I'm boycotting. I'll not purchase another Hewlett-Packard printer (after being a loyal customer for years) based on their decision to export, excuse me -- "outsource", American and Australian jobs to India. Same goes for IBM, GE, Sears, Oracle, and Ford.
Now, before you think I'm just a trolling protectionist, let me explain. I have no alternative than to vote with my paycheck to try to affect change; It's not like our "duly elected" politicans listen to the wishes of the public anymore or act in the best interests of the nation. IMO, they craft legislation based what's been bought-and-paid for by lobbyists. Well, I think it's time to undercut those businesses that put short-term gain over national interests.
Voting with dollars at the retail level is the only recourse I have and if that's what it takes to get the attention of business and get them to understand that not everyone wants cheap widgets at the cost of the American jobs, at least I'm doing my part.
You mean, "The way it scrolls through long lists quickly [comma removed] is no different from any other application where a wheel is used to translate rotational motion into linear input."
Ogg is simply a better codec than MP3.
Ogg is a container format, not a codec. The thing that bugs me about the confusion is that when people talk about "Ogg format" for players, I don't know whether they are talking about Ogg/Vorbis, Ogg/FLAC, or Ogg/Speex (or any of the others). They are all very different codecs with different tradeoffs.
Vorbis is the codec that's closest to MP3, but if I was using a player to bring some music to a party, I'd want to load it up with Ogg/FLAC (lossless), which some players can handle. On the other hand, if I was using it to record notes, as some other players can handle, I'd want it to use Ogg/Speex, a highly compressible format optimised for speech.
Please people - if you are going to compare something to MP3, talk about Vorbis. If you are going to talk about player support, talk about Vorbis, FLAC or Speex. Don't bother talking about Ogg, it's an ambiguous term that means you speak nonsense.
I am not the above type of person, yet I own an iPod. Once you own one, you just understand. Every other music player just seems uncivilized.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Depends on if you're another person who does not rip their own music, mearly steals it from other people. Kinda sounds like you might be in that catagory. There are people out there that don't belive in ripping off other people. Why not use the best codec? Why not expect products to support what you want? Why pay a tax to the frau^^^^houfenber people?
"think of it as evolution in action"
Damn straight! Who cares about these crappy lossy formats! If it doesn't support FLAC, I refuse to buy it!
(p.s. for the humor impaired, the above is a joke.)
... if I don;t want one?
This device approaches what I would like.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Both artefact and artifact are considered correct, although artefact is preferred in Commonwealth English while artifact is preferred in American English. As with grey and gray, choose whichever you or your editor prefers.
Ogg is dead! Does anyone still use it?
What the original poster was saying is that FLAC is good for audiophiles, because there's no loss of sound quality at all. OGG is a compromise because it sounds pretty good, at least better than MP3 does, but it still can lose definition due to encoding, not just the hardware you're playing it on. Audiophiles care about that sort of thing, and thus FLAC, not OGG, is great for audiophiles.
Of course, with most portable audio players you'd do more to improve sound quality by getting a decent pair of headphones than by playing OGG than MP3, especially if you use a decent bitrate for encoding. The number of people who keep their stock 25 cent to mass produce earbuds on their $200+ players is pretty sick.
If not now, when?
-iTunes is not available where I live.
-I have all my music collection in OggVorbis format.
-I don't use any of the major desktop OS.
-I don't need a replacement for my PDA.
-I don't think it is cool (it looks plasticky, like a toy).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
HAHAHAHA. That was the most hillarious thing I've ever seen. Howard Dean is a freak.
Ogg will decode on a freaking SuperSparc 50Mhz with pretty much no lagging.
Some of the devices in the marketplace use a 16 MHz ARM7TDMI processor and a dedicated MPEG audio decoder chip (for MP3). I wonder if those can decode even MP2 (MPEG audio layer 2 at 44100 Hz stereo) in software.
It's a feature that my USB dongle plugs into a Mac, Windows, Linux without special drivers, and it just works. I can put anything I want on it, up to capacity.
While we're at it, I want a digital camera where I can plug in a USB dongle.
I have three digital cameras. Kodak, Samsung and Olympus. They're all USB. They all come with USB cables. There are three different camera side connectors. So, I can't just keep the cables plugged into my PC, because I can't spare three ports (I only have six). The Samsung doesn't talk to my Red Hat 9 (yet) - so there's some sort of protocol change too. Feh. It's got to work out of the box.
-- Stephen.
... is to endorse subsidies at the expense of local consumers.
Think a bit about that one every time you ennact your little boycot.
It is good tiome people would have learn some basics about global economics, but no, the protectionist bug will not be put to rest...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is much cheaper and wait for the 2GB to go down in proce.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
BTW: IRiver also makes an Ogg-capable portable, several of them, but their 20gig model is about $399. :(
:-)
Coincidentally enough, my iHP-120 arrived the other day, and only cost me 250
It's hilarious how vile a person can be when driven by pure jealousy... Why don't you just cancel a couple of your porn subscriptions and buy an iPod so we don't have to listen to your rambling anymore?
In 1992-1994, I used an Emu Proteus MIDI synthesizer module whose menu was controlled with a rotating knob. Settings in the menu included choosing a recording out of hundreds to use as an instrument sample. Obvious extension to navigating similar menus in sequencer modules. Obvious extension from selecting a .mid to selecting a .mp3. Busted.
How about the ones who don't have huge-ass music collections? The majority of my collection would fit on that 1.5 gig unit.
However, since most of it is OGG, they wouldn't play.
So,yeah, as other people have wondered, how well does the Karma work with Linux? I'm getting a new system soon, and I'm getting frustrated with my CD/MP3 Player (I'm not sure whether it's the discs I'm using, my burner or the player).
A "Scroll Wheel" normally refers to a wheel on the side of a device such as a PDA that is used for scrolling.
What you are referring to here is a "Scroll Pad".
Wheels turn.
How do you manage to listen to "a few dozen of albums" in any meaningful short space of time.
Lets say a few dozen albums=4 dozen, that is 48 albums.
if 1 album= 1CD then you are talking about roughly 48 hours of music.
Dividing that evenly accros a week that is almost 7 hours a day of music.
I would be damned if I would be hooked ot a player for that lenght of time.
Even at the more modest (bust still high) 1 hour per day of music it would take 48 days, that is 1 month and a half to listen to all that.
So I don't believe all this rubish that you need that much music, it is simply physically impossible to listen to all of it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
flac is whack. All the shn is where it's at. Does anybody support them?
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I'm not sure 100% of the Rio software is available on Linux, but the Rio itself has a webserver (over ethernet) and can run a rather nice Java client to transfer music and files with. I've also seen post from several users on the riovolution.com website that mention that they are running Linux.
-Redundancy Man strikes again!
It works like a charm.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
He was cool.
Quit being a flaming ball of nerd and buy an iPod. Nobody uses Ogg but nerds. There isn't a normal person on the planet who meets the following criteria:
1) Knows what Ogg Vorbis is
2) Gives half a shit if a device supports it
I swear some of you people must maturbate to Ogg. "If it doesn't have Ogg support I won't use it, if it doesn't have Ogg support I won't use it, if it doesn't have Ogg support I won't use it." Shut the fuck up already. We get it. So does Apple. Which is exactly why they won't be adding Ogg support to the iPod.
- RCA
- Quassar
- GE
- Audiovox
- iRiver
All these budget companies have created audio crap since i've known about them. What makes you think something thrown together ripping of a patent and having all these features for dirt cheap is going to be worth the money or the ink used to print it. I think the 1 out of 5 Ogg users need to find a different codec or brew up their own firm ware for a decent product. It seems everything wants to touch the iPod but as of right now none of them have all of these Loyalty, Quality, good branding, a good track record of not making audio garbage, international support forums (ie ipodlounge), and excellent 3rd party accesory support. iPod is the new "i'll have a coke" and " can i have a kleenix" The only thing at this point that can kill the iPod is a better iPod. _g"It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." - Henry Rollins
Not to mention that Ogg Vorbis is not patent-encumbered like MP3 happens to be. Have we already fogotten the lessons learned by the Unisys GIF/RLE patent fiasco?
There have been a couple of deals in the past where you could get one for $250. It's usually priced in the $280-$300 price range.
-Redundancy Man strikes again!
Circuit City has the RIO KARMA for $252, and then take $20 off of that with the rebate, so its $232. This is the in-store price, online it is MUCH higher. Last saw it about two weeks ago, and this wasn't a sale price.
considering most of their other (seemingly lesser) products go for W200,000-W300,000 ($150-$250 ish) my guess is it won't be "cheap enough"... the korean at the bottom says it will be out late february to early march (and that the specs can change without notice... right)
Blah, blah, blah. If they can't produce enough, seems to me that they must be selling as fast as they can make them, even overpriced as you say. So, what the hell is your point, coward? Oh, and what is the anwser, anyway?
Karma Schmarma
It can also play uncompressed audio formats (WAV & AIFF) if sound quality is really your issue.
you do not scroll it by grasping it (pong) or by thumbing the edge of the wheel (scroll mouse, the sony jog dial) but by spinning the wheel from the face to select from a list.
Beatmania, an arcade game series made by Konami, involves spinning a wheel from above to select a song. The first Beatmania machine was sold to the public in 1997.
hahahhaha.. i took a look at the link and it makes sense.
The problem is that altavista seems to be doing a literal translation (taking each word and translating it). The problem is that the grammaticaly form of korean is different than that of english (and similar to Japanese, and I think Chinese and Hungarian).
The difference between this grammar (I don't kwow the official linguistic name for it) and english grammer is noun and verb placement. For instance:
In English, one would say: "I'm going home".
In Korean, one would say: "To home I go."
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
I think silicone sinks.
Wait. It gets funnier. Katie Kouric is interviewing Dean. In the background, you hear the "Yeeeow!"
tobad the interfaces BLOW ASS.
which ogg? Do you mean vorbis? because if so, I'm just silly. I rip all my CD's to FLAC.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
What is with all of these mp3 players coming with tuners?
Did I miss something? When did radio begin to *not* suck?
I've got every CD I own, and ever album I've downloaded from Emusic.Com or purchased through ITMS on my iPod. Having that much choice is a wonderful thing.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
sound quality is shit? try using good headphone fool.
If they would just add FLAC support... or if the Rio Karma would add the FM tuner I'd finally be happy.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
From the FAQ on the website you linked to:
Can I use Karma with Linux or my Mac?
Yes. RMMLite supports Linux and OSX. It is developed by resident Java god, Mike Schrag, and is constantly being updated. You may connect to it via your ethernet hook-up on your Karma docking station. Currently, you can transfer files but cannot do firmware upgrades via ethernet. RMMLite resides on a webserver on your Karma, included with each new firmware update. More current updates may be found at this site.
Looks neat. Wish I had $300 to burn.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
The only way to transfer songs is Linux at the moment is through the ethernet interface, because the USB interface does not implement the mass storage standard.
You have to connect the Karma player to your LAN (using either dhcp or keying in a static IP into the device). Then you point your web browser to the embedded http server on the player and download a java program that you can use to transfer songs. The program is not fancy but it has all the essential features it needs for daily use.
It must be mentioned that you cannot upgrade the firmware from Linux yet.
On the whole, I would say that the process of transferring songs in Linux is harder than with the Korean made players, but still easier than trying to get the iPod to work in Linux since at least Linux is supposed to work out of the box.
I've dealt with many prosumer and professional video decks that use the jog/shuttle wheel for navigating their menus and, though not for music, I can't imagine what else the wheel would be used for except to navigate through "lists" of video scenes.
Actually, "I'm going home" in English becomes "to home go" in Korean. Notice the lack of subjects--there's no "I," or "you" in the Korean phrase (colloquially speaking ,that is). I've heard that Korean is closer to Japanese and Finnish; however, I am no expert on Finnish language.
so use AAC.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Audiophilia? I suppose it has some point, but ultimately what you get out of great music isn't about the sound quality, it's about the performance. I know I'd far rather listen to an old scratchy record (or an mp3) of Maria Callas or Joan Sutherland than a near-perfect DAT recording of some lesser opera singer.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
- JRR Tolkien.
what is it with you Linux geeks and product naming? can't you guys understand product naming is important? i'm not gonna be caught dead saying "oh, it's not an mp3, it's an ogg vorbis file."
mp3 doesn't support gapless playback. mp3s have encoded silence IN THE FILE. Thus if you play them back to back (as the iPod does) you still end up with a gap.
The Karma does have crossfading though, his some people thinkg is as good as gapless playback. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, IMHO.
The ethernet on the Karma is a joke. Small points for having it, but have you used it? It took me something like 80 minutes to put 3 gigs of music on a Karma over ethernet. And even though the dock has lineout and ethernet, you cannot control the Karma remotely. You can make a playlist remotely, but you can't even start it, let alone skip forward and backward. Lame.
Note USB 2.0 sync speeds are normal, it's just ethernet which is horribly slow.
Make your IPOD clone out of solid gold and have it fix me breakfast if you want, but someone will be out there saying "The IPOD is better."
If you can sell one for $100, however, THEN you'll be able to push apple's market share around like the little nancy you wish it was.
Adam Thorne
What the hell? I couldn't bear using iTunes. It's bloated and featureless. Its sole purpose is to help me steal music over the school network with the assistance of MyTunes.
I use EphPod to put music on my iPod. When I'm using GNU/Linux, XMMS is my musical staple. If I'm booted into Windows, I'll use WinAMP 2.x to play my music over iTunes every time. iTunes has shitty encoding options - it doesn't even come close to EAC with LAME or whatever your encoder of choice is. However, my biggest complaint about iTunes is its insatiable hunger for resources and slow response. Plus, it takes up half my screen, has zero customisability and I can't find a half-decent visualisation for it anyway.
Good software, my eye.
Turkeyphant
That's also why I use Right Guard. Anything else would just be uncivilized
I just picked up a Neuros 20gig player with an fm modulator, etc for 192.00 USD. It even has an opensource package that goes with it so you can do what you want with the unit, as well as store any sort of files on it. I believe it has Ogg Vorbis support as well, as someone took the opensource project and added it. just a nice package that is sort of under the radar.
What's your deal, man? "flac is whack"? Could you be, perhaps, a little more specific than that?
FLAC is an open, free standard. Shorten is owned by the guys who wrote it. Does "anybody" support Shorten? Talk to the Shorten guys.
But it's probably already too late. Several portable players already support FLAC. Magnatune.com offers music in FLAC format. The train already has left the station, and Shorten was not on board. Why would a company pay to license Shorten when they can use FLAC for free, and FLAC is better?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
unrelated to chinese. chinese uses the SVO order like english:
(subj) (verb/action) (object)
i go home
while japanese and korean share the SOV. the reason why the subject is dropped is that as in japanese, the subject is frequently already understood and denoted in context by a sort of "topic marker":
na-nun chiberu kanda
i'm home going
finnish and hungarian are related in the finno-ugric language group, so share similarities; it's been suggested that korean and japanese also fall into a larger group, ural-altaic, which includes the finno-ugric group. the chinese languages are all in the sino-tibetan group.
"Because it's an iPod."
Translation:Because I'm a sucker for Apple marketing.
At least internally at Apple, someone has been thinking about this stuff. In OSX, control-click on iTunes, from the pop-up menu select 'Show package contents' - open 'Contents' folder - open 'Resources' folder. See the iTunes-ogg.icns file? And the iTunes-wma.icns file? Somebody has created the icons for those types of files... why would they do that?
Never pet a burning dog.
Boy, does that patent sound stupid, my old monitor has a scroll wheel for monitor adjustments...press it to bring up adjustments screen, rotate to desired icon, press again to adjust, adjust, press again to select exit icon, press again to exit. Also, what about 20 odd years ago when those big supercomputer cad consoles had those prgrammable panel of round knobs that could be programmed to adjust cad drawings (i assume)???? Is the patent office stupid...you shouuld check out the article on the register www.thregister.co.uk about the UK patent office changes to small co. patent law where the patent office (themselves) can now determin the outcome of disputes...
People AREN'T ignoring OGG format. Hooray!
Rio's past may be shoddy, but by all accounts they have now been taken over by one of the bigger audio players in the market who own both Denon, and Marantz http://www.dm-holdings.com.
I have bought both of the above, and would trust them to produce audio equipment a lot more than I would a computer company.
It's not a cube!
so if someone hates something its automatically viewed as jealousy? but dont most ppl on this site hate microsoft?
guys, what is a good ripper for FLAC? and how lossy are WMAs? thanx
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
This is the second 1.5gb device I've seen and the second with wireless I've seen. They all share something in common and that is No one has said how much the stupid thing costs! Has anyone seen a price tag?
Thanks
that's why I'm voting for him!
sulli
RTFJ.
I thought Charles Barkley was dead... ?
Wow that sounds almost as intelligible as some of the Ogg slashbots trying to make a point!
Well, we'll see how you do when the Karma's battery dies. If it's anything like the iPod, good luck. $50 DIY with a lot of futzing, or $100 from Apple. The Neuros battery replacement is $12 plus postage. Of course, knowing Rio, you'll be SOL, but you can always just buy their latest player.
It's so true. Someone actually did a study and found that 70% of iPod users were homosexuals, in fact. I'm not sure what that proves... but at least it explains the faggy design.
Would you tell me where you purchased it?
I have been looking for this one and could not find a place to buy it below something about 430eur.
I really think this is odd, the Euro is at 1.30 Dollars and still all the products cost a lot more Euros than Dollars. Something in the world trade system is seriously broken.
TIA,
-silence
Dyslectics of the world, untie!
HOW could you forget? :-)
ah.. thanks for the clarification.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
yes, correct. I guess I through the "I" in there even though it's really implied (like the other replyer said).
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Well, I'm no expert, but as far as I'm concerned all these features have been achieved across several successful and affordable players. I can't see it requiring a significant technological leap to put them all on one device. Most are simple tweaks (firmware updates and UI) or necessary for the easy playback of my music (sorting by tag info, gapless playback).
From what I've learned, it seems that the only people likely to be of any help in this matter are the makers of the Rio Karma. Why is it that Apple can put Solitaire and an address book on the iPod but are still incapable of pulling their thumbs out and including basic double buffering?
Sure, maybe I could live without the inline remote and FM tuner, but I can see no reason why manufacturers would leave out such features that require so little effort to include...
Turkeyphant
I bought my Rio Karma yesterday and it pretty much rocks my world.
I had a little trouble starting off because the java app they included for transfering songs (only for non-windows) was corrupting files in the transfer.
If you get the new one from the website (they say it's 1.02 but it's really 1.01) it works like a charm.
The 1.5G models are a novelty I think. For just a little bit more you can get a much larger capacity. Also with the 1.5G you have to decide what you want to take with you today. With the 20G Karma I take everything that I bother to care about.
Comp-u-plus has them for $268 with a $20 rebate on top of that. http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?refer=cne t.com&id=1001537
Ok, how do I change the clicky details ?
I don't think it's a troll, I think that's a reasonable question. But I like the name, it is VERY memorable. From the first time I heard of the Ogg Vorbis codec, I have never forgotten the name. By the time I got around to finally ripping into that format, I wasn't sitting there scratching my head wondering, "now what was the name of that format again?"
After using iTunes for a bit I'd be hard pressed to use any other music software.
Your sad but temporary state of ignorance no doubt proceeds from the fact that you haven't yet tried Media Center.
Da Blog
EAC. Very.
(Use Google)
I think this is a better pic though.
Besides it's not you'll lose any quality if you need to turn some of your shn's into flac files. should be pretty fast too.
Not gapless though if that's an issue too.
Ogg. FLAC if your hearing/equipment is better than average. Vorbis for us mundanes. And Speax for audiobooks. :-)
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
That's one of the main reasons I haven't bought an iPod. None are big enough.
The cake is a pie
It's not an iPod though. The 1.5GB player he was referring to is the Dcube, it being the subject of the story and all. Try to keep up.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
Not to mention the fact that navigation is poor.
Furthermore, a 1GB flash card can be quite expensive (> 200$). A 1GB card + NEX player is just as much as a 20G HDD based player. Yes, you do get awesome battery time, but you're also very likely to listen to the same tune twice within that battery time.
The Raven
This is the worst iPod knock-off I've seen yet, and I'm sure the scroll-wheel interface helps out a lot. Yikes.
Moof.
I don't rip to FLAC because my equipment or hearing is superior (my hearing has been going downhill of late). Although I can sometimes hear artifcats when I'm really listening, even VBR lame encoded MP3's sound good enough for most cases. The reason I rip to FLAC is that I see my rips as backups as well. Since they are a backup I want all the information there.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
People call MS users snobs?
Sure, they've got Ogg, but what about OGG?
Don't even get me started on O.G.G.!
The MP3 the sound quality and the enemy who jump over a file 500Kbps until it will be able to remake the ogg file which is proud a dosage from the NHD-150D.
"Most noticeable however is the scroll wheel, Apple holds patents (pending) on scroll wheel design"
Oh guys, guys, GUYS! This is NOT a scroll wheel! A scroll wheel is something a mouse has! This is a JOG DIAL!
"Yesterday" and "Gone"...
You know what?
The Apple Scroll Disk allows for uninterrupted continuous scrolling- this is not possible with one finger on my Clie's Jog Wheel or my Logitech's Scrollwheel.
Totally better to quickly and accurately scroll through long lists without lifting and starting over.
For the same compression ratio I'd defy anyone to hear the difference between mp3 and flac. especially if using vbr.
I'm not saying that there is no difference I just strongly doubt that the difference is audible.
Surely the best format is the one that gives the best compression for a given level of percieved quality.
---
imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie...
iPod LOL
I can't imagine a more un-intuitive interface, and a casing that could be any uglier. I cannot fathom why people masturbate to the iPod's 'features' What a hunk of junk
what a bunch of jerks.
That's very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton and rather unexpected in a G Major
oog think mp3 good enough
I got it here. Price seems to have gone up to ukp 255 now but still a bargain at that price.
I knew I forgot something, damn lossy memory. ;-)
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
The legitimate fight is promoting quality, not incentivaiting bad companies that happen to wrap itselves in the glorious US flag...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Its actually $280-300USD retail in stores last I looked and $260-290USD online _WITHOUT_ including rebate. I ordered mine for $280USD from etronics.com and that is once again that's _without_ the rebate.
The Rio Karma has a fast and simple GUI, I'ved tried out all the different players out there and none even compare to it. Karma > *
But I have a basic level of organization that is obviously saving me a good deal of money in fancy music players :-).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Ogg is not simply better. It all depends on what you mean by "better".
If you have a portable player, better may not mean Ogg. What good is Ogg if you've got an iPod? Even if you do have a portable player that supports Ogg, like the Rio Karma, Ogg drains the battery more than MP3 would.
So in some ways, Ogg is better. Don't discount MP3 just because it isn't Ogg. Sure my Karma can play lossless FLAC and lossy Ogg, but because I also have other equipment that doesn't support Ogg, it doesn't really make much sense, does it?
FYI, Ogg is not a good thing for audiophiles. FLAC/APE are much better, since they're lossless. And whether Ogg is better than MP3 is debatable as well. There are some people who think LAME has a better psychoacoustic model than Ogg. I'm sure the LAME vs Ogg argument is enough to start a flame war between each of its proponents.
I'll stick to my LAME 224ABR encoded MP3s, thank you.
except that ugly hack of a control mechanism they use, im glad and hope they get it patented so that other companies are discouraged from using that.
I transfer music to my Karma through the Java client running under Linux syscall emulation on NetBSD. So, yes.
Do you have a
It proves that you suck at making shit up that people will believe.
The Rio Karma is 46% bigger than the iPod (78% thicker).
20GB Apple iPod: 6.1 cu in
20GB Rio Karma: 8.91 cu in
20GB Karma: 2.7" X 3.0" X 1.1", 5.5oz
20GB iPod: 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.62 inches, 5.6oz
I have a digital camera that's 1.3" thick, and that's pretty thick for a pants pocket - it's really prominent. 1.1" is probably similarly brickish. YMMV. A jacket pocket would probably be fine, though.
My advice for portable audio gizmo shoppers: make sure you actually see the products in person and that you get to handle it & play with the UI (i.e. not some broken demo model that doesn't turn on) before you buy it... don't just buy one based on a feature matrix. It could have a crappy UI, or be flimsy, or have a crappy screen, or weigh a ton, etc. etc.
OGG is lossy.
No it isn't. Ogg is a container format. You may be referring to Vorbis or Speex, two codecs commonly used with Ogg. FLAC is also used with Ogg, so "Ogg is lossy" not only doesn't make sense, but can be the exact opposite of the truth. I have thousands of non-lossy Ogg files.
Yeah well when ogg first was around, the mp3 players couldn't play it right because it needed a more powerful processor. It went down something like this. Cost of mp3 player plus licensing for mp3 codec was LESS then cost of mp3 player plus hardware needed for ogg support. So then the only reason for using ogg was that it was open source and stuff.
My Gawd WTF...