Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Unhappy With HP's iTunes Decision
rbrandis writes "The general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the iPod, as opposed to limiting them to Microsoft based products. In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor he said, 'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'"
And in this instance, I believe Microsoft is right.
I would pay for the mp3s I had if I wasn't required to have an iPod.
and i choose to not use your "enabling" products
vodka, straight up, thank you!
I think what he really meant is that is would be bad for Microsoft.
Microsoft not happy that people take advantage of their own non-Microsoft monopolies!
Why don't they sue Apple ? Hell, iTunes is bundled with OS X! Because they'll bundle a music store with media player soon enough... and try to kill iTunes completely.
ROFL! Talk about naked FUD. Choice, choice, choice. Yeah, that's the Microsoft Way, isn't it? NOT. What hypocrisy!
I think he'd use a digital media device in his next novel. Perhaps the character (who would be similar to Ian Malcolm, who is similar to Mr. Crichton himself) would store his statistics on one of these devices and predict the downfall of the amusement park--the robots go haywire and eat the visitors. Then a strange alien "virus" kills the survivors.
Today I predicted that there would be a news on Slashdot something like "Microsoft is not happy with this HP-Apple deal", and I wasn't wrong. Thank you guys for making this up.
If HP/Apple can get iPods to chat with HP Windows boxen, can we get them to talk to Linux as well? Has this already been done?
'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'
Apple's iTunes just works... it's that simple.
will work for Karma
As bad as people may hate Microsoft or Media Player, it does support multiple players and platforms - not just the iPod. A list is available at http://windowsmedia.com/9series/Personalization/Co olDevices.asp.
I am ever so grateful that once again Microsoft is looking after my best interests. We can all sleep well.
Dell says this:
"According to the New York Times, Dell also suggests HP is making a mistake. A Dell spokesman said: "We expect competition and it's good for customers. Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices.''"
I am no English expert, but it sure sounds like they are tryin to say that WMA should be the only game in town, and are at the same time trying to play it off that they 'want' competition.
Well, I guess this story submission's bias offsets the "superior WMA format" bias of that earlier story. Heh. Leave it to slashdot editors to pick the dumbest sounding submissions when posting a story!
Shave the hair off and you'd swear it was Uncle Fester!
General manager ... Uncle Fester has suggested that Windows emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the Windows.
'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'
//need a tissue.
That was the sound of the mack truck hitting the customer wearing the antlers staring into the mezmorizing headlights.
What happened to DRM, and what happened to windows media player being everything you ever needed, and what happened to integrated music purchasing, and what happened to....
What happened to consistancy? My understanding of the world has been shattered.
~Wx
sig?
It has always been questionable as to whether they would get DRM to work in the first place. Now along comes HP, trying to make what are essentially incompatible DRM systems work together, and still protect content. The closest analogy I can think of is trying to have make a marriage work with two spouses at the same time.
Anybody who has installed any kind of media player on Windows knows what I'm talking about... it's almost impossible to assign specific file types to Window's Media Player, QuickTime, RealPlayer, Winamp, etc., without all of these applications trying to steal the right to handle these file types out from one another. Now the same thing is going to happen, but with DRM in the mix?
It's going to be a zoo. Nobody is going to stand still for this, especially when people start losing the right to access content they've already payed for.
And just wait till this shit starts happening to everybody's porn collection. People will be running amok in the streets.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
So what's the *choice* in not being able to choose my freakin os? Huh? Lets let this guy answer that. And I CAN use something other than iTunes for iPod's... I use mpg123 and play scripts. (I'm just gui defecient.)
Ah well. And didn't apple just announce that the're going to supprot wma on there iPoden?
-=fshalor
Microsoft, advocates of free choice, will let users decide how they wish to be hacked or infected in their new OS - crappy coding and bad firewalls, or preloading Outlook Express again.
Actually makes it sound pretty reasonable if you just imagine that it's Uncle Fester saying it.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
How is this bad for choice? Yes there is only one music player that can play Apple's Music Store files, but everyone has the CHOICE not to buy from the Apple Music Store. There are many music players that support the WMA format, most at a lower price point.
If you get an error, type "OVERRIDE" or "SECURITY OVERRIDE" and then try the optimize command again.
Windows is about choice...
Theres a catch 22 here, you have to use windows to have... ummmmm..... m$ make your choice for you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can only listen to iTunes content on an iPod.
You can listen to WMA file on any of the huge number of devices that support WMA, purhcased from any of the several shops that sell WMA files.
So, isn't he right?
Read reviews of shopping cart software
The choice in music services are there and will continue to be, and I'm sure there are a good number of folks who want to use their pre-existing mp3 players (or not buy an i-pod when they do decide to get a portable player) who won't be subscribing to i-tunes. I just think this is a case of Microsoft using a valid point (choice is good) to illustrate nothing (choice exists).
HAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Hm. I think that it is entertaining that they whine when the shoe is on the other foot. That's what they get for pandering to business partner's interests instead of considering what the consumers want. Perhaps it is time to see them in the 5% market share slice of the pie.
To Microsofties : go back to Office applications and general-use operating systems. Leave the audio and video stuff to the experts.
Crap Microsoft, Crap indeed. You are now lying through your... well, backside. MS = Choice my arse.
Microsoft is ALL about cornering you into using MS products...
PRIME example is their damn Movie Maker 2... quite nice program to use (I haven't used iMovie, so I can't compare), but then try and save... "Hmmm, I'd like to save to an open format that pretty much anyone can play... VCD or SVCD, or perhaps just plain MPEG would be nice." "Hmmm, I seem to ONLY be able to save to MS formats unless I have a few gig free to save out to a straight DV dump and then use someone else's program to convert to a more user friendly format, so really I'm forcing anyone who wants to watch movies I've made to have an MS compatible player"
"Hmmm, MS can blow me, and blow me hard"
...considering that HPs decision to add WMA support to the iPod means that the iPod will *be* a Microsoft-enabled device.
Windows is about choice, and I choose to use an iPod and AAC..minus the whole windows part, if I *did* use windows I would still pick the iPod/AAC.
Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
Yes, it is an old example, and yes, it is simplistic-- but it is still very relevant: Betamax vs. VHS.
Sony had a superior quality format for videotape (betamax), but wouldn't share with anyone. Meanwhile, Panasonic, Philips, and others all got together and agreed on VHS format. Competition brought lower priced machines, and eventually VHS killed betamax for home use.
Microsoft is half-right: it is about choice-- but it must ALL be available for choice: the hardware, the OS, the apps, the data format. Only true, open standards under a GPL, LGPL, or other similar "free to evolve independent of any single vendor"-type license will work in the long run.
davejenkins.com |
Support WMA for Rio, Dell Jukebox, Nomad...(whatever)..., and then pull a Microsoft in the next release. So iTunes does not work with Dell Jukebox. Looks like a bug. We will fix it soon...like 2 months.
Oh no, only Microsoft can do that, in the name of providing choice...Sorry.
...welcome to The Other Foot.
Actually, you can. You can buy systems with Linux now. You can build one without an OS yourself. The only system that truly forces you to buy an OS is Mac.
Its great that users have even more of a choice with HP getting involved with iPod - heck, it may even push the price down. And the alternative is to use a Dell player and MS s/ware? Pfff ... that's not a choice.
The point on interoperability is so true: Apple started to bridge the divide - in online music at least - with iPod/iTunes for Windows. Now HP are going to help bridge this further (and make $$'s from it of course).
So just how many brownie points did Dell earn with the "we love the MS monopoly"?
I also like my iPod. Microsoft should be grateful HP will work with Apple to add WMA support to the iPod. No major digital music service will offer MP3 or other open source format music for the simple reason they lack digital rights management. To force the industry's hand, people would have to boycott iTunes, Musicmatch, Real Networks, Walmart, etc.
I'm sure Microsoft as intellectual property rights on monopolies.
We've had the warm-up match, now I want tag team action!
Microsoft & SCO VS Apple & Linux
Let's get ready to ruuuuuuummmmbble!!!
Is there anything preventing other companies from making an mp3 player that would play iTMS files? I realize that other companies can make players that play the AAC format, but is Apple preventing them from accessing the DRM?
I'll pick iTunes hands down.
I've had a RCA Lyra that'd only play MP3's it mangled with a Music Match plug in on CF cards written by it's own proprietary reader
I've used WMA to transcode music onto an iPaq. Once forgetting to turn off DRM and losing music when I didn't back up the key
I've lost a couple of albums on iTunes due to a catastrophic IBM deathstar disk failure...
Now I purchase the music off iTunes and IMMEDIATELY burn it to a CD. Problems solved.
(and you can drag and drop from iTunes to a card reader and the mp3s'll play in a WinCE device. My portable music listening is split between an iPAQ 4150 and a Rio cd/mp3 player -- it's not perfect, but it sucks the least so far, at least until the iPod Minis come down in price.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
1. "Windows is about choice...[you can mix & match music software & hardware]"
2. "Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices."
Given "industry standard choices" is doublespeak for "choices MS likes", these great quotes contradict both themselves and the customers that have voted with their money.
And even better that the other offerings for windows don't satisfy his first (compatibility) criterion!
I seem to me that any program that takes over your computer when used, and opens up browsers and pop-up windows should be called a virus.
This is the same 'No American has a God given right to a job' Carly that said that EVERY HP product coming out after Q2 2004 will have DRM built in. Hell, she even wants to make recording like a VCR on your HP impossible unless the copyright holder agrees.
She is no ones friend save for herself and her fellow exec. She thinks nothing of the employers/users/shareholder of HP.
but can't all these players play mp3's? I've got an iPod and other than the slowness of using iTunes I've had no problem putting MP3's on it. Isn't that a free choice that I have, or are they trying to push people into using WMA or AAC only, in portable music players? And (as the article suggests) if they are working on playing wma on iPods, is there even a problem here?
AppleTurns site translated it this way:
Check it out, this was the best a company spokesperson could muster to undercut the announcement: "Windows is all about choice... we believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services." Translation: "Use any service you want as long as it sells Windows Media, buy any player out there as long as it plays Windows Media-- but for heaven's sake, don't buy one of those wretched iPod thingies or we'll be completely boned with our whole plan to monopolize digital media commerce and then we might actually have to start innovating for our paychecks for a change." Or, to put it a little more succinctly, "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black."
This appears to be the same David Fester that popped up a few months ago and spewed forth the same sort of garbage.
iTunes, the iPod, and the iTunes Music Store are popular because Apple has delivered stuff people want in a way that pleases them.
It's pretty simple.
Well couple of words are missing like
a) Windows is about choice
should have been... Windows is about our choice...
b)you can mix and match software and music player stuff
should have been...you can mix and match within software and within music player stuff
c)We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services
incomplete sentence...should have been...We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services the same choices you have(well alright had) when buying a new desktop PC from any major computer dealer
One OS: Windows
One Version: whatever they haven't killed updates and support for, today.
Where do you want to go today? are you sure it wasn't msn.com, oh well, i'll take you there anyway.
I think MS are just upset because apple found a way around media player(albeit all MS applications) stealing default types, regardless of the user's chosen options. My favourite however is when two MS apps fight over an extension, like word and internet explorer with the .html extension.
The bottom line is that the iPod and iTunes provides a better user experience.
I had a 5gb 1st Gen iPod, and I now have a Dell DJ (Dell gave me the credit, Apple wouldn't).
I prefer the iPod.
The DJ works ok, but the user experience isn't as good.
There's no way to stop a playing song. Only pause it.
Syncing music is not intutitive.
Navigating through the tracks on the DJ takes FOREVER.
It's just not as well thought out as iTunes and the iPod are.
I'm thinking of selling my Dell DJ on eBay, and buying an iPod or an iPod mini.
I think Microsoft's main complaint here, and I agree with them, is that if you want to use the popular iTunes service, you have no choice but to use an iPod.
It probably would be more fair to all to be able to use the iTunes service without having to use an iPod exclusively, but that would require all the other mp3 player types to play nice with each other (very unlikely) and iTunes (Apple) probably is not inclned to be this accomodating given the fact that their distribution product (iTunes) is doing just fine, thank-you.
In essence, Microsoft is complaining about the same type of quasi-monopolistic practices that it has been engaing in for quite some time, which make them the quintisential case of the pot-calling-the-kettle-black.
But they just so happen to be right, IMO.
.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.
Do not laugh at our choice. Microsoft is all many choices. We have so much choice it is silly. You must not listen to the apple! We will crush the infidels with all the choice that we are having!
Sincerely, Microsoft Information Minister
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Windows is not about choice - it is about having developers and service providers further entrench the Windows hegonomy, with little to no effort on the part of MS.
HP made a choice, as the market seems to be doing as well.
Let's see how well Microsoft lives with this.
Oh, and to all of you who say "Watch how high the price of Windows goes for HP", Microsoft won't dare do anything of the sort. Having both IBM and HP actively looking to kill Windows is not something Microsoft shareholders would appreciate.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Then why does it do everything possible to destroy it? Lotus 1-2-3 for Dos, WordPerfect (countless times), DR-DOS, OS/2, OpenDoc, Go/pen computing, Netscape, Java - and those are only the examples I can think of off the top of my head.
In fact, there has never been a more monopolistic, closed technology advocate than Microsoft. If someone comes up with something original, or something that's superior to anything Microsoft can engineer, then they'll be driven into the ground by the full force of the Microsoft machine.
I use Microsoft products (eg, Windows 2000, Office) and I also use non-Microsoft products that compete directly with the company's offerings (eg, Opera, Winamp). I'm not pro- or anti-Microsoft. What I am is pro-choice. And, frankly, that's one thing Microsoft can accurately never claim to be.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor he said
I must be an idiot or something, but could someone please explain why microsoft is generally anti-choice? look at the facts, windows is built to give people the opportunity to choose whatever they want to do. Windows xp HOME. windows xp professional. dos. windows has more features than all other operating systems. apple on the other hand forces people to do certain things... they're the ones who sell computers that are stuck to a monitor. people are forced to upgrade their software because older versions are incompatable. look at windows xp - you can choose a compatability mode. i can run windows 95 software seamlessly.
if you ask me, microsoft has the right to say they are better at giving people options. look at windows media player - it plays EVERYTHING.
If you can't beat 'em, FUD 'em.
Remember, kiddies, that Microsoft is never about competing. Otherwise, they'd still be working on IE for Mac OS X, instead of complaining that another browser beat them.
Take your toys and go home, I say. We don't want you here.
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
its rather big and bloated and of sub-par consistency. I'd rather take my Ass Around the Corner and hang with the other non-conformers.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Also,
Slavery is Freedom
and
War is Peace
If I remember my Orwell right.
Thats one reason why I dont have an Ipod now is the lack of WMA support. My Creative MP3 player will play pretty much anything I tell it too.. Including microsofts limited wma files.
Once apple gains a foot hold more or less it will be better for the consumer
If I had a choice of 10 crappy products or one good product on the market I'd take the 1 good product
You can have any color as long as it is black!
- Henry Ford
The best planning can be done after the project completes.
They know they're doin better than everyone, so they try their best to have fun while making a mockery of the courts.
God spoke to me
Isn't that Big Brother doublespeak, an obvious oxymoron"?
This is truly the most double-faced marketing spin ever to come out of Redmond, and that's saying a lot. I think it's a sign of desperation!
MS saying that domination is bad? What's next? Emacs and vi lovers uniting, BSD'ers and Linux'ers singing in harmony, qmail people installing postfix... now I'm a beliver!
- no sig.
There're two basic methods of Innovation at work here, Apple's brand and Microsoft's. Microsoft wants to leverage the choice of software tools made by third-party developers (that they haven't driven under by co-opting technology from) to promote a "choice" among applications on the Windows platform.
Apple wants to provide the "choice" of a Non-Windows platform and non-Microsoft technology. And Apple, for all their ills as far as co-opting technology in ways distressingly similar to Microsoft, has never been known to utterly decimate the competition or actively belittle or disparage them. What Apple does when they add new features to the OS is to simply set the bar higher for 3rd party developers.
Apple bothers me in some things, but when it comes right down to it, I don't see Apple trying dirty tricks in the background to drive anyone away from creating music services for the Mac platform. Microsoft would just -love- to push vendors into a MS Music Store lock in.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Why would we make up stories about corporate stupidity. Honestly, many of them are so contradictory and say such stupid things that they make themselves look far dumber than we ever could.
I particularly like the Microsoft=Choice part... which is only true to the extent that it is "Choose, but only from the selection we give you."
Fester, master of Orwellian spin? http://daringfireball.net/2003/10/closed_is_open
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
It would seam to me that by adding Microsofts own digital rights managment format to the itunes software Apple is making it possable to use music from other services on the ipod.
If I remeber correctly itunes isn't just the store but the client software that can rip CDs and do other intresting tricks.
Also if Apple is offering music via Microsofts format isn't that adding a choice not taking one away?
I don't actually exist.
...that he used the word 'stuff.' It's such a revolting word (and I'm not even an Englsih major).
Anyway -- yeah, I am usually a fan of Microsoft. But, I have to agree with the general thoughts of Slashdot here at this point. iPods are good. And, when they support both WMA and Apple's format, they're going to be even more formidable.
All your choice are belong to us!
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
HP believes that it is better positioned than any other company to bridge the gap between Apple and Windows. Fiorina told the Times: "The next big thing isn't the next gizmo or killer app or hot box. Customers want all this to work together and they want a seamless approach. We're very much going to make sure that the Microsoft and Apple worlds work together. That's part of the power we bring to this thing."
This is probably the only remotely interesting initiative HP has embarked on since Carly took over.
Let's hope it's more successful than most of them have been.
If that isn't the convicted monopolist calling the kettle black!
Reminds me of an apropos joke: A dyslexic man walks into a bra...
--
litiguous bastards ..What is it all about.. is it good, or is it whack?
I swear I saw Mrs. ditech.com loan man in Wal*Mart yesterday. You know, the man who says, "Lost another loan to ditech.com". That poor woman looked like "him" in drag. No one dresses up to go to Wal*Mart anymore.
Isn't burning all of my music to CD and then ripping it really annoying? I think so.
What pisses me off the most about moderators like this is they mod down based on bias and make "news for nerds" as biased as Fox News because filters don't show both sides.
AAC isn't a proprietary Apple technology, and there are other AAC players available.
of the early 20th century whrn can we expect the stormtroopers.
Wanted : A Signature.
Dell is always talking trash about the competition... as long as you pick up on their hostility, then making sense is not a requirement.
This is why the press has to learn not to ever interview MS employees. Their answers are completely retarded 90% of the time, no matter how high up the ladder they are.
Didn't they ask Bill Gates what was the future of PCs in the mid 90s and he failed to mention the internet. iPod might be overrated, but Microsoft is really really overrated.
I don't think MS is b*tching because it has anything to do with choice or their own music service as that will surely just be another thing for them to waste money in as have all their other projects that provide no real profit...
No I think this is MS looking ahead to DRM and their next OS platform...will it still be adopted as the RIAA hopes if there are other more "standard" systems out there not under their control? Suddenly people will realize they don't need to buy an entire new OS/platform to be DRM compliant...they are worried iTunes will become a standard...something that will prevent them from force feeding us their own standard in their next OS.
"But they can't choose us!"
Because HP decides to sell iPods, MS considers it monopolistic? Talk about MASSIVE irony! And as for choice, last I heard, HP was not the only PC running Windows. There's Dell, Gateway, IBM, and others. And then there's the custom market with companies like Asus, Acer, etc. Sheesh, Apple has how many other manufacturers for its products? Just Apple.
Come to think of it, the number of major PC manufacturers for Windows is going down. HP absorbed Compaq. IBM is pushing hard with Linux. Gateway, like Saab the motor company, still exists, but I don't know why. Saab has GM as it's saviour, and Gateway, well they're expanding their market, to Plasma TVs:) Dell is also getting into the consumer electronics thing as well.
CD
What a sad end to a once-proud engineering company. HP is now reduced to flogging low margin gizmos in an effort to survive. Carly truly needs to be removed.
As you can see in this document, iTunes supports quite a lot of different third-party players, including Nomads, Rios, and others.
What these other players do NOT support is AAC-DRM files like those sold by the iTMS. I'm sure Apple would be happy to license their DRM scheme to a third-party mp3 player if they wanted to do so and the price were right. Money talks.
- Vincit qui patitur.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college."
...ever looked inside a Dell PC (I know, I know, you don't want to void the warranty by opening the case)? They're not exactly the biggest users of industry standards.
um, when did Ford use stormtroopers, anyways?
Microsoft said they were about choice! Now the linux zealots can all flame them on slashdot and go to sleep happy. The apple users can chime in their love for ipods and itunes. The windows fanboys can chime in how wma is surperior and that it will take over and crush apple and linux. Once the rubble has settled the 1862 ogg users can tout a new media format world order and reign for the next 1000 years. Good times a commin'!
If microsoft did this once a month, IT productivity would go up 10%.
Tom Waits = God
to learn to say stuff like that with a straight face, because if I tried to say that in front of a crowd there is no way I would get through that statement with ROFL.
That said, I think the MS guy is right about iPods being the only mobile player that can play the m4ps are itunes (and now realplayer) and iPods (apple and hp). Of course, on my iPod I have aiffs, wavs, mp3s and m4as & m4ps. I wish it could play FLAC or some other loseless compression. Of course what the MS wants is for you to be able to play nothing but WMA, and Apple doesn't really care which of its supported formats you choose as long as you buy an iPod. You make the choice, you get locked in different ways - you have to take whichever you see as the lesser of two evils, or not play in this particular game.
Wow! MS is complaining about lack of choice. That caught me off guard.
Its my belief that MS feels it can no longer expand on its computer and software business. It is now trying to buy out and/or control large amounts of digital media e.g. an ISP, MSNBC, XP Media Edition, Media Player, X-Box, Hotmail and so on. In other words, MS is only complaining because iTunes' success is going to hamper - to some extent - its ability to dominate the digital music format.
Some of these business units, admitedly have not experienced great success. But, what happens if MS decides XP ME which is hooked up to your television only works with their music service, you can only use their media player and you can't setup a regular POP3 account and instead have to use Hotmail (== advertisements)? I think this will inhibit competiton!
I made the *choice* over the summer to buy an iPod and would spend that 400 dollars all over again if I needed to.
iTunes and the iPod's support for it just makes the deal even sweater. Only those who refrain from the pair think they are bad. Join the club friends, give your money to apple for the greatest product they've ever made IMO.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Cripes, when did this happen? I'm out of it for a little bit, and Microsoft becomes a spamming outfit! Naked FUD, Enlarge your CHOICE, end-user license SECRETS, listen to music FROM YOUR HOME...
Has anyone made a joke about siphoning the gas to her?
True story.
a) Dropping AAC and go WMA only on iPods or
b) Support as many formats as possible, and let the "huge number of devices" start supporting AAC instead. Guess which one Microsoft favors?
Microsoft should be glad for this decision. The iPod was in a position to make AAC the only commercial format on the scene, with their combined iTMS/iPod power. Instead, I assume that Microsoft will now start getting royalties on every iPod sold.
Personally, I think Apple fumbled the ball on both the mini-iPod and this. They should have made it cheaper to catch the mass market, and kept it MP3/AAC only to keep competing WMA shops out.
I think Apple simply isn't ready to change that much. With these moves, they're aiming up to be a niche player in a Microsoft (WMA) market yet again. They should have gone for broke and taken the market. Then they could be licencing other players to play iTMSs protected files, not the other way around.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The exact moment I used it for the first time on the Internet. Bug if you'll check my patent application, I think you'll find my new licensing scheme on use of "boxen" in that context to be very fair.
True story.
...as long as you choose Microsoft.
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
Slight paraphrase: You can have any operating system you want as long as you want Windows.
you are the standard.
Although I'm having trouble figuring out whether they'll work with the iTunes DRM. Anyone know? Clearly, if they don't now, newer models will (since there's lots of software that is compatible with the iTunes DRM, so it would just be a matter of time).
for anti-competitve behavior.
Microsoft gives you the choice of applications you can install on your computer : Winamp, Sonique, iTunes, WMP, in that case.
The fact that, pragmatically, you are not given the choice of your OS when you buy a x86-based computer because Windows is pre-installed on 99% of them, doesn't mean that Joe feels his freedom of choice impaired. Basically for him freedom of choice is not, because he doesn't know what an OS is. What this MS guy told was not for us, it was for Joe...
Every pro-linux site should link to an educational site that teach you, in no good-bad manner, what an OS is, and why it is important to know that.
jdif
Let's overcome our weakness.
"Hello, Mr Kettle? I have Mr. Pot on line one. He has a message for you."
"We are going to produce a patch that should be up within a week," said Microsoft's David Fester, group product manager for Internet Explorer. "We'll put up that patch as quick as we can."
Internet Explorer Bug Makes a Return Visit
In 1998 he was the management flunky most directly responsible for all those MSIE bugs.
"On the one hand, they say they're pursuing standards, but they're implementing and pushing proprietary technology with their development community," Microsoft product manager David Fester said. "Microsoft has pledged 100 percent standards support for some time. The truth is in the pudding and the products."
Pot, Kettle Black (netscape, microsoft , standards, name-calling)
Wednesday's Windows Media announcements are specific to XP, said David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows Digital Media division. "These are companies that are doing things specifically around XP," he said. "As you know, our Windows Media effort is broader than just XP."
Windows Media announced for MAC/Linux/Solaris (not)
"This is unprecedented, but we realized we need to work together [with Netscape] for the common good. We decided we should not propose separate standards for privacy software." David Fester, Microsoft, June 97
More Outright Lies from David Fester
Tell me again why I want to listen to *anything* this man has to say.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
Funny. HP users have just gotten a taste of how being a Mac user a couple years ago was (not now, because who cares). Just wait until it gets to a personal level.
Moof.
"The general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers, because it would limit them to the iPod, as opposed to limiting them to Microsoft based products."
Microsoft has never written software that forces a customer to use specific hardware. However, for Apple, it's not an isolated incident, but their business strategy. The poster is either too stupid to understand, or is another Apple zealot who is spinning the facts.
Or perhaps the OS is free with a Mac, then you're getting an extra OS just for the heck of it which you can easily install Linux over if you wanted to.
Yeah, your perhaps right. :)
But Apple don't have to try dirty tricks : no one want to compete with ITMS on the "so-small" mac-market
Mac-addict.
Well, he's right, and it's not like Apple's monopolistic impulses are new.
To me, neither Apple nor Sun seem like a good alternative to MS: they are trying to be like MS, they are just less good at it. And being smaller, they are less restrained and more vicious once they manage to sink their teeth into a market.
I guess it takes one to know one...
Given that ox becomes oxen, it was concluded that VAX becomes VAXen. The led to box and boxen.
Slightly more information available from the Jargon File and the Free On-line Dictionary of Computing.
'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'
The fact that HP chooses to clone the iPod, or include a music player designed for a certain format doesn't limit anyones choice. These HP boxes are still windows machines, and will support all of the MS 'standards'.
As I see it; this doesn't harm consumers, and only angers MS because HP is not promoting the windows format.
~ You may speak freely, If you have enough cash ~
Does this mean that Microsoft is now beleaguered?
Microsoft wants everyone to use their WMA technology, obviously developed by Microsoft.
Apple wants us to use AAC, developed by Dolby.
Last time I looked my stereo, TV, DVD player, Car Stereo, etc etc etc all carry the Dolby logo, not the Microsoft logo.
It's a simple choice.
This is 1984, all over again. Only this time, the roles are reversed.
This is affirmed by the fact that the 1984 ad that was played during MWSF had an iPod digitally grafted on to the woman throwing the hammer.
Apple is now the dominant manufacturer of portable music playback devices and has assumed the role of IBM. The licensing of the iPod and iTMS is a move straight out of the IBM playbook 20 years ago.
Microsoft shipped Internet Explorer 4.0 with Windows 98. Consumers had a choice then on whether or not to use IE... but they used IE.
Now iTunes is shipping with Windows on HP machines. Consumers have a choice on whether or not to use iTunes.
Sounds like the same "choice" as before--so what could Microsoft possibly be worried about? What reason do they have to worry?
You get three guesses, and the first two don't count.
The coolest voice ever.
The quote originated on Connected Home Magazine. The news editor is Paul Thurott. Paul also runs www.winsupersite.com and www.winnetmag.com/windowspaulthurrott/ as well as a few other MS Fanatic sites.
...Paul is also the author of WinInfo Daily UPDATE, the Windows Informant, a daily news and information newsletter for Windows users, and the News Editor for Windows & .NET Magazine, where he writes a weekly editorial for the popular Windows & .NET Magazine UPDATE newsletter and a monthly news column called Need to Know for the print magazine. Paul is also the News Editor for Connected Home Magazine, ...
From one of the sites...
So we know it's biased already - no need to re-state to obvious.
grow up already microsoft. here is a thought. "really innovate and come out with something really new." I don't mean copy Apple GUI, copy features of Oracle and DB2 to sql server, or copy XUL in longhorn. All the pro microsoft people who say "don't under estimate MS, there are tons of brilliant people there." Show me proof that those individuals are allowed to innovate, instead of being stifled by gates and ballmer.
"In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor he said, 'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'"
/. never ceases to amaze me. The only irony is that a supporter of a company whose business model is to lock you into their hardware using their software, would dare criticize MS, oh wait that's hypocrisy, not irony. MS and Apple are both guity. Apple is not taking the high road here.
The quote is 100% accurate. MS provides an OS that allows 3rd party aplications to run under it. He didn't say anything about compatibility with other OS's. The studipity as
But strangely the 'choice' to play music on whatever device I want is not part of the DRM picture.
Must also be why I made the choice to switch to a Mac...
.deviatefromtheabsolute.
So read at -1, most of the interesting comments are AC anyway.
The (probly no where near) the first to say:
HAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHA
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
Shame on you people who think Timothy is biased.
"because it would limit them to the iPod, as opposed to limiting them to Microsoft based products"
Oh.....well.....he really doesn't try to put spin on things.
"In a moment of what must have been an attempt at ironic humor"
Well, um....least he's not like the NY Times guy.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Three months ago I saw this parody article, and now it's come true. Some the quotes in it are now downright prescient:
Under Anti-Trust Pressure, Apple Releases iTunes for Windows
SCO are still a bunch of litigious bastards!
From the article..
.MP3
"According to the New York Times, Dell also suggests HP is making a mistake. A Dell spokesman said: "We expect competition and it's good for customers. Over time, however, customers will want industry standard choices."
Uhm..thought we already had a standard...
Duuuuhhhh....
= Grow a brain...
I for one welcome our new free-choice forcing overlords.
Point taken, but what was your original point? I am, of course, assuming you are the same Anonymous Coward as before. :^)
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
What Apple does when they add new features to the OS is to simply set the bar higher for 3rd party developers.
Are you suggesting that 3rd party developers who may have created an application for that feature that is now a part of the operating system "adapt or die" or something else? If that's what you mean, then you seem to be praising Apple for doing something that Microsoft also does.
For instance, I believe that a virus scanner should be an integral part of an operating system. Now imagine if Microsoft decides to add one and it's just as good as 3rd party scanners. Also imagine if Apple did the same. Is one scenario different from the other?
Am I sensing a double-standard?
How did this thread not turn into a flame war about OGG VORBIS? You /. guys are slipping.
I've been waiting for it, too. I thought this might be it, but no dice.
Moof.
For what it's worth, it's always seemed to me that Dell was the most MS-cozy of the major computer manufacturers, HP least so. So I'm not surprised that Dell has come out in support of MS on this.
It's not a bad strategy, really, hitching your businesses fortunes to the MS monopoly. Unless you care about enterprise business. Where all the margin is. Awww, shit. ;)
If Dell really cared about standards, that standard would of course be MP3. But a little birdie tells me you're right, they'll support WMA over that nasty insecure MP3 format.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
So why can't portable music players be able to play more than one form of digital music? Is it so impossible to have a player that can play both WMA and AAC? Why? Is it possible for companies to make a player that not only can play multiple audio formats but also have the ability to add a codec so you can play additional ones? That's something I'd like to see... by a player... and play any format...
Now, see here. Everyone knows that the plural of "moose" is "meese". :)
Yes, I'll admit that I know Alan Sherman songs. Damn my grandparents for having those records around their house when I was a kid.
Of course, the following is the copyright of someone other than me, reprinted without permission.
Please don't sue.
SiO2
ALLAN SHERMAN
ONE HIPPOPOTAMI
One hippopotami cannot get on a bus,
Because one hippopotami is two hippopotamus.
And if you have two goose, that makes one geese.
A pair of mouse is mice. A pair of moose is meese.
A paranoia is a bunch of mental blocks.
And when Ben Casey meets Kildaire, that's called a paradox.
When two minks fall in love, with all their heart and soul,
You'll find the plural of two minks is one mink stole.
Singulars and plurals are so different, bless my soul.
Has it ever occurred to you that the plural of "half" is "whole"?
A bunch of tooth is teeth. A group of foot is feet.
And two canaries make a pair--they call it a parakeet.
A paramecium is not a pair.
A parallelogram is just a crazy square.
Nobody knows just what a paraphernalia is.
And what is half a pair of scissors, but a single sciz?
With someone you adore, if you should find romance,
You'll pant, and pant once more, and that's a pair of pants!
I for one welcome our new musical overlords.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Younger!?! Please don't tell us that you are old and still this stupid.
It never occured to me to associate pdf files with Michael Jackson.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
In this case, Microsoft is right. Of all the DRM'ed music formats, Apple's verison of AAC offers the least choice to the consumer.
if it's easy to unprotect the files are they protected in the first place? The only thing I can figure is to make it a hassle to use itms without an iPod. Either that, or they're planing something nasty down the road...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Apple is only one of many companies *using* AAC. Apple did not invent it. Apple did not invent it. Apple did not invent it.
n dard.html
"AAC was developed by the MPEG group that includes Dolby, Fraunhofer (FhG), AT&T, Sony, and Nokia"
http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/aac/
"MPEG-4 AAC has been specified as the high-quality general audio coder for 3G wireless terminals. Apple Computer has incorporated MPEG-4 AAC into QuickTime 6 and iTunes 4, as well as the latest version of its award-winning iPod portable music player. The Digital Radio Mondiale system (the next-generation digital replacement for radio broadcasting under 30 MHZ) builds on the audio coding of MPEG-4 AAC."
http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/sta
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Of course this is slightdick.org and any braindead attack against M$ (Oh, I just creamed, I wrote M$ insteat of MS!!!!) is moderated as insightful.
Well done SlightDickers, you are a bunch of morons. Go get a job and some responsibility.
The correct abbreviation for pedophile coming from someone who's pimping his own porn gathering software. Now I've seen it all.
Overrated / Underrated : Moderation
Betamax was superior if every movie you wanted to watch was less than 1 hour long. That is to say that Betamax was a piece of shit. Unless you enjoyed having to use 2 - 3 tapes just to watch a single movie. Then what happens when you want to record a movie when you are not home? The fucking machines only held one tape so you couldn't record a whole movie. VHS beat Betamax because Betamax sucked.
Choice..snicker, almost blew coffee all over my PowerBook. Funny little man...
Have a nice day all,
Me
Not that it would ever happen but if ITMS ever got to monopoly status and was able to lock others out of the market someone would file a lawsuit in a second. And Apple would probably lose and be forced to offer uniform licensing for Fairplay.
Whiner...
makes no sense
MSSpeak - We give you CHOICE in the PDA market
Real World - We charge all vendors equally and make all our money off of the applications you have to buy to interact with these devices. MS Office, Exchange, and we make it next to impossible for someone to convert Lotus Notes into your Windoows CE, er Pocket Windows, er Pocket Windows 2002, er 2003, er hey you need a new PDA every year from our 'choice'
While my Palm 3.0 OS still works and I can still load what's latest and greatest on it.
MSSPeak - iTunes is a closed format, they don't offer choice.
Apple makes a player. It uses FairPlay's DRM. Apple doesn't own fairplay, and there is nothing stopping anyone from releasing players and/or portables to support this. Though people haven't, except one major one... HP.
However here's another handy dandy pocket windows media os that you ahve to buy all new items for in six months or so that should do everything but support AAC from Apple, but that's OK we have WMA and it even has a true lossless CODEC for you audiophiles - Apple Doesn't! Their software is lossless! BTW our Pocket Media OS will let you play a widescreen movie on a 2" LCD and you'll like it because we said so. Apple is insane saying that no one wants that because we make it and you buy it because we said it's there!
Whatever. Granted other than AAC that iTunes using being a bit to tight on the compression for my taste *I* like it and I've bought a few hundred songs. Would I care if it died tomorrow and some other vendor came out with a killer app? Heck no, but then again iTMS is the only one in the 10s of millions of songs sold. If 5% of the computer population can do that....
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Otherwise Microsoft is right... Oh wait you can just Burn a CD in iTunes and rip the CD into mp3 right in iTunes. Nevermind cary on nothing to see here.
Microsoft wants to create a platform that is used by every man, woman and child, from the day they are born, in every facet of their life.
By platform I don't just mean Windows desktop PC's... the XBox is one small step for Microsoft, one giant leap for world domination. Consider that Bill Gates' house is one of the most technology-driven pieces of real estate in the world. Imagine if 10 years from now, it was like that everywhere; running all MS software.
Choices MS wants to give you:
What wallpaper do you want?
Will you use XP Home at Home, or be a rebel and use XP Pro?
Will you buy a Dell, Compaq or HP computer to run Windows on?
Which charity would you like to see Bill Gates donate to this year?
The Microsoft Way isn't about eliminating choices; it's about controlling all available choices.
and what he was saying in his head was: "Windows is about choice [the Microsoft Choice] - you can mix and match software and music player stuff [as long as we support it]. We believe you should have [the Microsoft Choice] when it comes to music services."
"Sorry Im not more user-friendly."
Now I do think that they are unfairly trying to force people to use IE and Windows Media Player, but that doesn't mean you can't install and use something else.
I have my prefs set with a +1 modifier to AC's to compensate for posting at 0
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Taxation without representation is tyranny! Statehood for DC, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands & Pacific Territories!
Link to a copy of 'In the beginning there was the command line'
1. Mac OS X
2. Mac OS Classic
End of Line.
Completely off-topic, but I'll say it anyway...
Tom Waits song "Books of Moses" is fucking cool
BTW... You can download the mp3 or wma version of this song legally and for free here: http://www.epitonic.com/artists/tomwaits.html
That Microsoft provides seemingly "free" software that only serves to make the user lock data into Microsoft proprietary files. A media player that rips to WMV, a movie maker that also generates WMV.
The real question is why Microsoft has a photo editor that lets you save something as standard as JPG - or does it? I forget if it's still BMP files only...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Everyone isnt using windows for everything! How terrible!
This is all about MS history biting them in the ass. Their previous records of ass fucking every possible partner has gotten into the heads of people. You cant trust MS and thus you team up with ABM.
HTTP/1.1 400
Windows is about choice. We buy out all the competition and destroy the rest. Then you get to choose. It's not hard when there is only one choice!
It's a bad idea -- not because it somehow promotes an Apple monopoloy, but because no one wants WMA playback on thier ipod.
WTF are you talking about? The OS doesn't support devices or software. Hardware vendors produce drivers; that is why Microsoft is able to (legitimately) claim that 70% of all MS-Windows failures are due to bad drivers. It is the hardware vendors that produce the drivers to the OS, not the other way 'round.
Same with software. Software is targetted *toward* an OS; the operating system is (hardly) never written towards an application.
Microsoft has made a company from destroying competition, yet (ironically) a lot of software is targetted toward the MS-Windows operating system.
This is due mostly to Microsoft's early control of the hardware distribution chain. By controlling the software that was installed when there was very little choice, they have managed to lock out other software from being included today. Since that control translated to 90% desktop market share, other software companies felt they were safe targetting the MS-Windows platform.
Apple does not have a history of driving other software companies out of business by bundling their own software with their OS; Microsoft does have that reputation. So your comments are extremely ironic, and display a certain ignorance of history.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
AAC is the industry standard.
WMA is a proprietory format that nobody is allowed to implement unless Billy gives them permission. Is that standard in your vocabulary? (Sure as hell isn't in mine.)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
In this case it serves another bussiness strategy. Windows Computers are commodities, and among brands with a rep for quality the only distinguishing feature is low price. Dell or HP: buy the cheaper. The only way to beat this game is the way apple does it: differentiate yourself. If you buy dell then you are buying WMA. if you are buying HP you are buying into AAC. One presumes that the computer will come with software that makes it work slightly better with its native player.
Finally it looks like AAC is about to win. Nokia, panasonic, amybe even RealPlayer are all going to support AAC.
so HPs move is good for HP. They get room to develop their own. they are in the market early with no R&D costs and differnetiate themselves from dell.
consumers of course benefit too. HP and others will eventually be making players to compete with ipods. That will bring down prices.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The thing is, it's completely wrong.
In the beginning there most certainly was not a command line. There was either a deck of cards (going back several generations) or there was a wire panel (going back another generation or so).
Not that it matters. The mainstream view is that computing started in 1969 with UNIX.
It's sort of shocking that Neil Stephenson, who will blather for page after page about various techie arcana, doesn't have a clue about computer history. Too bad. Oh well.
But I would bang her just to say that "I fucked HP".
I mean seriously. The woman would probably talk the entire time in that low monotone. She would point out about how my dick was too short, and that I didn't give her enough foreplay.
And she'd want a business plan on how I was going to give her an orgasm.
But I would do it, and I would have her making sounds like a dog.
But if she wasn't CEO of a big company, I wouldn't do her on a bet.
- Works.
- Works well.
- Is up to date.
Because it is none of those things. iTunes is fully functional, does everything the Mac version does, and is staying up-to-date.Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
They cut Michael Jackson's weiner off when he was 14. He's no pedophile.
Just an angry eunich trying to find a community all his own.
And what's a pedofile? A child file? I think you mean pedophile, which renders your whole argument irrelevant, unless you want to make more cracks about a .pdp format?
Microsoft is saying this AFTER HP and apple have decided to add WMA support to the iPods;
my two cents; if microsoft comes out with a better product, with all the features they promise - they have nothing to worry about - BUT HOW CAN they whine about a product just because it is good and it is not theirs?
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
Well Apple should be on top of micro$oft anyways!
Since when did lesbians need help siphoning gas?
Last I looked at the date, april fools was still a way off.
What a mouthpiece for Satan. I often wonder how people like that sleep at night.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Okay, I'll bite...
Ogg is nice, but I prefer flac
They don't like sucking on hoses, I guess.
I thought the Slashdot populace was feeling warmer and fuzzier than usual. One man's sorrow is another man's joy, indeed.
But Maaa! Everyone else has a
"Windows is about choice..."
What's all this? I thought Microsoft's official position was that Windows is about innovation. Maybe Mr. Fester didn't get that memo. Or perhaps Microsoft is planning once again to prove itself incapable of innovating its way out of a paper bag.
I would rather be locked into a iPod than anything Microsoft would bring out. I think HP is doing the right thing and Microsoft is seeing it's power being widdled away one small step at a time.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
Now look what you've done! You've spoiled our plan for a "MacOS Refund Day" rally.
And fucking Raymond was all ready to play his flute at the rally. In his Darth Vader outfit, no less.
> David Fester has suggested that iTunes' emerging dominance would be bad for consumers
And I suppose MS market dominance is good for consumers, right? You can't have'em all Microsoft! Apple took the risk and launched the iTunes service before you did and now that it became somewhat successful you're all pissed that it weren't MS, right?
It's just a /. rant.
An industry leader, yes, but not a constrictor.
May lightning strike me down if I' *|b147a [No Carrier]
What is still unclear is if this agreement will produce an iPod that plays protected WMA files.
My bet is on unprotected-WMA compatibility only. This allows Apple to block out the other online music stores, adding fuel to their iPod-iTMS success.
With no DRM support, and also lacking on the codec front, the Mac WMP players can hardly be considered equals with the Windows version - while iTunes iis feature complete with an identical UI on both platforms.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes there is some big plans going on and they are not privy to it, that's what got Dell scared.
MS: Where would you be without me? (gollum gollum). I saved us. It was me. We monopolized because of me!
HP: Not anymore.
MS: What did you say?
HP: Apple looks after us now. We don't need you.
MS: What?
HP: Leave now and never come back.
MS: No!
HP: Leave now and never come back!
MS: Arrrgh!
HP: LEAVE NOW AND NEVER COME BACK!
[HP is panting and looking around and realises MS is gone.]
HP: We told him to go away! And away he goes Preciousss. Gone, gone, gone, HP is free!
IIRC from a friend's Sony MP3 player they also use AAC for their digital media players and I am sure they are DRMed also.
Now if the two are compatable then Sony's players will work with iTunes also.
Not that MS wouldn't repeat the same party line, but I coulda sworn I saw a very similar if not identical quote when iTunes for Windows came out a few months back. It just jumped out at me (then and now) for the sheer absurdity of MS arguing FOR choice....
It's like having well over thirty leprous hookers to choose from at a third world bordello!! Choices, choices...
If the OGG users sent back to 1862 can really get the format a good foothold, then OGG will triumph well before Windows is even born!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Here's the deal though - all of those (including the iPod) will play MP3. If you're talking protected WMA files how many of those players will work? Now consider that some of the purchased WMA fiiles will not let you play the song on ANY portable device.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I know the G5's are fast, but can you imagine converting 20GB of music to some other format? That's some serious time! I know that my iPod still syncs as fast as ever and the last I checked I still only had a 667MHz Powerbook..
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Also, if your wonderful Windows give you a choice of capitalizing the first word of ever sentence, you may want to exercise that option.
.Net... It's kind of like a secret handshake.
All true Microsoft fanatics invert case from the norm. Just take a look at
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I thought Portable Document Format was just Adobe's name for it, and that it's actually Postscript Document Format?
The two protected formats under contention ( AAC and WMA ) are each trying to go a different way.
WMA is all around a myriad of different choices for PRODUCERS of music to say what kind of DRM they would like protecting the file. No burning to CD's or listeing to in leap years? Got the bug to just drop a licence for anyone with an email address containing numbers? That's fine, because the user is licenceing the file.
AAC under Apple is around letting USERS have the choice of what happens with thier music - any protected AAC file has the same level of protection, whcih is marginal and does not hamper most peoples use of music. Furthermore the protection is arranged in such a way that the USER owns the music.
Players are supporting one philospohy or the other basically... probably closer to the truth though is that everyone assumed WMA would be the dominant format (because Microsoft never looses, right?) and decided forking over licencing money was a nessicary cost of building a player. Right now we are in the ramp-up phase where companies are swimming over to Apple's boat, they just haven't got there yet.
Probably in the next year we'll see some dual players from people who licence AAC but have already paid the Microsoft toll.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Two things:
:D
1. [sic] means "spelling is correct" when quoting printed material. It doesn't mean that it's correctly speltl, it means it was correctly copied despite an apalling spelling error. This mans that...
2. Paedophile is the correct spelling you fuckwad. Shut the hell up faggotbitch.
Also, my own accuracy is terrible at the moment as I have a broken hand. Hah, no comebacks, bitch!
Apple has not decided to allow WMA on the iPod, that story from yesterday was poor journalism by the guy who built winsupersite. Apple may move to WMA, but I very much doubt they will so long as the iPod holds a commanding lead in the Mp3 player market and the iTMS holds the lion's share of the DL market. But, no one at Apple has stated that they are moving to accept WMA. This is still FUD.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that MS was refereing to other portable MP3 hardware when it made the iPod monopolistic claims, as opposed to applicaions in general. Yes, we all know iTunes has other uses beyond the iPod, but to my knowledge, it can only be used for the iPod in the realm of portable MP3 hardware. In that, they are absolutely correct in what they said. One would think that apple is trying to secure absolute dominance on there computer market for their player. I mean, how many choices do you have for a software/hardware combination, let alone one that Apple endorces? Besides, Apple has always been about having an iron grip on anything connected to their name. proprietary, proprietary, proprietary.... Beyond the OS itself, MS doesn't have anything close to that sort of software/hardware control (yes, yes, preloaded windows. It's not your only choice and you damn well know it). ...Whether it's important or not is a different story altogether. it's not as if Apple is hurting anybody's market share at this point, iTunes or no. This isn't going to be the thing to propel them to umber-monopoly status. And before I recieve that flame that's being undoubtably typed up, I'll be the first to admit it's hilarious to hear MS crying about monopoly's for once.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
we should be supporting our local mom 'n pop computer builders, or building our own for friends and family.
Lots of people want the general purpose computer to go away now. Same for the Internet. Seems that everybody likes open standards until they somehow establish a position of dominance. Then greed and fear of what might come next takes over.
Wall street wants nice little quarters, every single quarter better than the last for as many as they can get them. This means our "market" works against us because the incentive to create change and improve is just not there.
They say it is, but really it isn't. Any company willing to take significant risks will see its stock go down, particularly if said risk takes more than a few of their nice little quarters down during the investment period.
Nobody wants that because it is hard to come back from. Better to simply litigate and license away the potential changes because that means lots more of those nice little quarters one after the others...
I used to respect HP and what it stood for. In some ways I still do, but I fear the pressure of Wall Street means I am going to be able to plot my history on the corporate road maps and that sucks.
Do business locally, use OSS tools and tell your friends. Sometimes this will come at a slight cost premium --so what? Most people can afford a little bit more for choice, particularly when they combine their new hardware with OSS.
It comes down to this:
Is a better choice worth a bit of work or not? Seems to me, this country was founded with a bit of work and a desire for choice in life. Man, just how far away from that have we come?
On one hand, HP is making good use of OSS in their higher-end offerings. Their value proposition is growing sound along with the other slow learners. (IBM, SGI, SUN... --Not in any particular order BTW.) But, the stuff they sell to consumers (cough, gasp hack), I mean American citizens is utter crap designed to maximize monthly revenue. This is best done with lock-in and they know it.
We know it too, yet most people don't care. Just can't figure that out. I mean, if it were food, people would be up in arms. "It's inhumane to force people to eat food from one source! Blah Blah..." Electronics are no different yet somehow people don't make the connection.
It is so bad, the big corps are flat out saying they are going to screw us over in the name of providing more choice! Liars and doublespeakers all of them...
Build your own damn box, then use it to tell (HP/DELL, others) what you did and why they did not get the business.
Blogging because I can...
Mac and Tosh, the excessively polite gophers seen in a couple of Bugs Bunny cartoons.
(In the midst of being chased by something):
"Please do go first"
"Oh no, I must insist, you go first"
"I couldn't possibly go first, you must go first"
etc. etc.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
business purchases.
(Sorry for the reply to my own, but I forgot something. I know, bad form and all that, forgive a little today...)
Buying a computer from your local retailer sucks. They package the OS in a way that makes it hard to really make use of it. Hardware and services are tied together in ways that are useless, yet somehow add value to the machine. You get serviced by morons in most places and your choices suck.
Buying a business machine is totally different. You are respected, have the ability to make deals, and get your packaged software on real media that can, for the most part, be used as it needs to.
Most people don't see the difference because they are either buying for business or as comsumers. (citizens dammit!)
The parent to my first post indicated that HP does not care. Looking at things this way makes that very clear. Too bad the average person can't somehow see that.
(Wishing we could edit posts sometimes, or amend them at the least with a time stamp...)
Blogging because I can...
Of when kazaa sued the RIAA for using a hacked version of kazaa (kazaa lite). Everyday I feel a little closer to my goal of creating a phylosofical school called "Ironism"
Microsoft is not about choice at all. You mention that you can get all kinds of devices from different vendors that all work with Windows, and you are correct in this.
What that has done is drive the cost of hardware down for all of us, which is good. So, that seems to support your notion of choice right? Microsoft is good for us right?
Well, I have two problems with this:
- All of those little devices work the same way. Compute using Windows or not at all. You may think you have choice, but remember Microsoft calls the shots on all of those. They write the OS, they provide the API for developers to work with. They establish the limits.
These things all work together to make sure you compute the way Microsoft wants you to compute. Keeping this in mind, ask yourself this question and think long and hard about the answer:
"What incentive does Microsoft have to act in your best interests given the control they have over the industry?"
My answer: None at all really. They have been convicted of illegal activity, our current administration is friendly to that and the pressure from Wall Street forces them to continue doing what they have been doing because it is good for the shareholders.
- The other problem involves these other device and software makers. Sometimes one of them really hits the nail on the head. People start buying and life is good for a while. What happens when Microsoft sees that success? They get greedy and introduce their own version, or litigate, or flat out purchase it for their own.
Once they have done this, they bastardize the tech and make sure it is nothing more than added leverage for you to continue spending in the Microsoft direction.
Take a look at web conference software. They recently purchased Placeware. Now it is called "Microsoft Office System Web Conferencing" or something along those lines. Called to renew contract the other day. Got told the services we were using were no longer offered. That same package would cost more, unless we chose to purchase their new services package with Outlook and Office intergration...
The result? A bit more money plus additional hassles to use and otherwise fine service, unless I accept their intergration as part of the deal?
Choice? Sure, theirs.
Blogging because I can...
but in a different way. You see, using WMA limits your choice of OS, but does allow many different hardware types.
Using AAC limits your hardware (for now), but does let you choose your OS.
Many folks probably don't care about the OS being limited, though they really should. Understanding hardware choices is easier than OS choices are, but keeping both in mind reveals that both companies offer limited choices.
For me, the choice of OS is far more important than the hardware choice is. (And I think the hardware issues are about to begin working themselves out which is even better.)
Making the Microsoft choice permits more hardware, but at what cost. How many other choices am I forced into because of this particular one? Going down the Apple road limits your hardware, at present, but does not limit anywhere as many other choices you might otherwise have made for you.
All in all, the Apple path permits far greater overall choice than the Microsoft path will, but it takes a bit more thought to see.
BTW, that is worth the hardware premium in my book. You do get exactly what you pay for.
Blogging because I can...
Tough Shit.
You only need (if you want) to do that for the files you purchased online.
Anything you ripped yourself is a straight audio file.
If you want to play an aac file an 'mp3 player' (term used genericly) that isn't an ipod - this is what you do:
In fact -- you can use these same steps to convert any format that iTunes reads into an mp3 or your non ipod mp3 player. Anyhow, the only problem is when the DRM battle has escalated to the point where there are no longer mp3 players on the market, then you will have to make a choice between camps.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
Microsoft today announced its new software user enablement scheme called Choice(tm). Computers equipped with Microsoft Choice(tm) will be able to use any software that the user chooses, as long as the software has been certified for use with Microsoft Choice(tm) systems. Microsoft Choice(tm) Certified software is certified to not impede or harm any Microsoft Initiatives, now and in the future. In this way Microsoft ensures that Microsoft Choice(tm) users experience Only The Best (tm) software that the world has to offer.
Currently, Microsoft Choice(tm) certification is offered to Microsoft Premium Select developer partners as well as all Tier 1 hardware vendors. Note that all Microsoft Choice(tm) certified software is subject to the standard Microsoft non-compete EULA, as amended.
Don't count Sony out. They will launched their own online music store in the spring and will be using their own codec ATRAC. Might not mean anything to the US markets but if you ride the train in Japan you see everyone with MD players.
Sorry pal, the most notable engineering effort by Compaq was marketing.
Compaq essentially was a marketing organization and box assembler, which made too much money and bought a couple of enterprise computer companies (in hopes to get a foothold into their customer base).
Digital Equipment (or DEC as we preferred to refer to it) on the other hand was an engineering company (which was later part of its downfall) and the technologies you are referring too where hatched at DEC.
Notable engineering efforts where (leaving away very ancient history) the Alpha AXP chip (which introduced 64bit processing 10 years before Intel could even come up with a workable prototype and Itanium "steels" a lot from alpha), or clustering, which worked seemlessly and transparently in 1988 (probably before that), while other "clustering" technologies, most notably under HP/UX, seem to be a bunch of hacked together scripts, which provide a never ending nightmare (specifically after major migrations). I could continue with some of the best compilers and a development environment, which would still put a lot of modern stuff to shame.
Compaq had no fucking clue what they where getting and they where even more clueless in the realm of enterprise customers relying on rock solid, mission critical iron. Uptimes for such customers (for example the Amsterdam coppers) is measured in thousands of days and they tend to take a dim view on the infamous CTRL-ALT-DELETE "error correction" procedure.
I absolutely agree with your statement regarding miss Fiorino, though.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Actually, there are a number of songs exclusive to ITMS, and some bands release CD's early on ITMS (the Barenaked Ladies is one example, released "everything to Everyone" a week early on ITMS). So yes I do have songs in AAC I cannot get anywhere else, in some cases not even in other forms (as a number of exclusives are just "unplugged" kinds of versions). I'm also pretty sure that with the independent label deals there may be some songs there I cannot get elsewhere...
The WMA services depending on terms, may or may not give you the option of downloading a song to a portable device. It's up to a union of the service and the wishes of the artist as far as I can tell. For instance there are songs on Napster that can only stream. Other services (can't remember which one) would not let you burn CD's in some cases. So really I think it's impossible to calculate how useful the choice of WMA players is vs. the uncertainty that you'll be able to purchase and play music you like on them!
That's what I think is better about choosing to buy into the AAC format - the terms are absolutely consistent. You either have the song, and all the abilities that implies, or you do not. Choosing a WMA device is sort of a gamble that it will all work out, and though you may have more stores they are probably mostly overlapping content anyway, just with different DRM limitations.
I think there will be a clear sign when the market has picked the winner of this fight - whoever gets the Beatles (as they are waiting on the sidelines [not in an alive kind of sense, you know what I mean]). An interesting twist is that I expect Microsoft to pay some ungodly sum of money for the exclusive rights to the full Beatles library for the upcoming Microsoft Music Store (MMS).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The whole point of pdf has always been platform- and application-independence. I could be misremembering the extreme infancy of the format, but I really don't believe there's ever been a time when pdf existed but Adobe didn't offer Windows software for it.
(Now, if I can only figure out any tiny thing this has to do with the sodding story, I'll feel better...)
hahahahahahahahah
wahhahahahahaha
sorry...couldn't help it
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
Nice Joke...I actually laughed outloud!
'Windows is about choice - you can mix and match software and music player stuff. We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services.'
Hehehehehe....hehehehe! Stop you're killing me! Hehehehe ! just let me catch my breath! Heheheheh! "Windows" "Choice" Heheheheheh!
"were", "steal", and run-ons
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
So HP have "chosen" to use iTunes and the iPod. Didn't David Fester just say that Windows was all about "choice" ...or does that comment only apply to "choices" approved by Big Brother Bill^H^H^H^H^H^H Microsoft
yep, windows is about choice, personally my choice is Kazaa Lite and eMule (and sometimes gnutella) and no MS bullshit DRM players - all far superior to iTunes, i can get 100's more songs and practically anything else, i only rarely get a bad download and its DRM free. Even better its money free too! If the artist wants a donation and i feel they should get one i would gladly give them something, but unfortunately very few of them have paypal accounts or even a hotline, it just seems to me that 50cent doesnt want my money!? ;)
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Also if you look at Buy.com's music store you'll see that instead of Apple's flat and mild DRM policy (same policy all songs), music company's can restrict you to how often you can copy music to your player and how many times you can play a song and if you can burn it to CD (the ability to do this may be in AAC files, i'm not sure, but it has not been enabled)
I wonder how those marketing practice (protected files) will make their way into linux? The place where everybody can mount cdrom as a loopdevice, and copy files wherever they want.
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
Wow. The astroturfers which Microsoft hires just keep getting more and more crude all the time.
Microsoft shipped Internet Explorer 4.0 with Windows 98. Consumers had a choice then on whether or not to use IE... but they used IE.
Bundling reduces choice as most users will stick with the pre-installed software.
Some people believe freedom is having the choice. I say that freedom is being independant, whether or not you have a choice.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
Why does the quote with Windows is about choice remind me of matrix reloaded?
Apple calls their MP3 player the iPod.
Microsoft calls their MP3 player the much snappier "Mobile Entertainment Device".
'nuff said.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
windows is all about locking formats and squeezing out competitors, hence less choice. Windows is not about choice, It is all Lies, Lies, and more Damn Lies - Microsoft Information Minister was quoted as saying....
Quicktime is how the file is played. iTunes, iTms, iPod and all apps in OS X use quicktime to play music files and view images and video. Quicktime is a big deal in the apple world.
WTF is a vira????
Linux user's aren't happy either cause HP is going to uses wma and disallow stealing music.
Apple sells a "complete solution". Hardware, OS software, multmedia apps. When you buy one, you know exactly what you're getting. And they don't have much market share.
When you buy a dell, or any other PC (other then from penguin computing or whatever) You get Microsoft crap and you don't have a choice about it. In fact, from a VAR/OEM point of view Microsoft was the only place you could buy a consumer OS. Apple made OS's, but you couldn't buy them. There was Linux, but no one was really selling it back then. That's what the anti-trust thing was about. Microsoft abusing their position as the only company selling a consumer OS to computer makers not end consumers.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Would he have said that if THEIR service was the most popular? I heavily doubt that :D
Does Apple have a Piece of AAC the same way Microsoft has a piece of WMA? You do have a lot more choice of music stores if you have a WMA enabled player today, but will that change in the future, especially with other companies making iPods?
Oh well.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Isn't having multiple ways to buy and playback music on your platform the definition of CHOICE?
This gives consumers more CHOICE. CHOICE not to use WMA.
...to this statement in the article:
"The company will be working with Apple to add support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year."
As an iPod user I am now furious that Apple has been oppressing me with an inferior audio format for so long. Dude, I shoulda' got a Dell.
"We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services" Ummm, so you mean that extortionate prices should be charged for providing music services and provide the fantastic range change of choice offered by Microsoft - "Music: Home" or "Music: Professional". Tell me, since the difference in the OS is only one RegKey, will the difference in this be the starting note of each song or the colour of the File menu!?!?!
It seems simple to me. If you like ITMS and iTunes or the iPod, Apple and HP will have those available to you. If you don't like them... Don't buy them. Vote with your dollars. Microsoft is mad because Apple finally figured out how to let everyone know they beat Microsoft to the punch. Whether you like Apple or not, it's about freakin' time they started getting some press with the products they release. I happen to like the service and the gear, so I can only try to reassure you that it's worth the money, and I have yet to have their DRM get in the way of anything I want to do. It sounds to me like Microsoft is feeling the burn from people exploring choices other than them. In that statement, I mean to include not only Apple products, but also OSS. I thought they were all about innovation driving market share?
Someday a real rain is gonna come...
You are on crack, sir. "sic" most definitely does not mean "spelling is correct", it is a /latin/ word. You know, the same latin the romans spoke, 2000 years ago.
I still won't buy an album on iTunes Music Store. But, I have bought over 100 singles from their store. This is for songs I would have never bought the album for.
The problem I have with iTunes Music Store is that it is too easy. I really have to watch myself and make sure I don't get carried away with buying music.
One note about the quality. I am very impressed with the quality of the encodings. Because it is recorded straight from master recordings, many of the songs I've downloaded sound better than many cd's I've ripped at a much higher bitrate.
It's OK for Microsoft to lock customers into WMA. But it restricts customer choice if Apple chooses a superior but incompatible encoding/DRM protocol. What Fester conveniently ignors is that 730,000 customers bought the iPod at Christmas because it's the best music player on the market. And 70% of on-line music sales were at the iTunes Music Store because it's by far the best download service. This was consumer choice working like it should. HP is offering to sell the iPod. That's all. And it's not forcing customers to shop at the iTunes Music Store. It's merely providing a button to facilitate the process. Once HP rolls out, we'll see consumer choice in action once again. My bet is that consumers will make the same choice they have to date. Poor Microsoft. They finally lost one all because consumers finally could choose.
Carly Fiorina - she just buys up someone else's technology, what IT guru Thurrott calls 'the crappy AAC' - while Microsoft, now they're always innovating, aren't they, coming up with new and groovy ideas.
I think we should support Microsoft more. They try harder - for us.
Haha.
Betamax WAS ONLY superior in visual quality...
The original Betamax was only ~60-90 (I forget) minutes of recorded programming. While they had a lead, the need to fight it out in court cut down their lead in the marketplace, and they lost first mover advantage. The second mover, VHS, provided 2 hours of recorded programming. Coincidentally, 2 hours was the average/max running of movies and movies on TV at the time.
Before the concept of time shifting TV became reality with the time-based recorder (if you have to be home to record the show, there isn't MUCH of an advantage to time shifting), VCRs were used to record movies.
That meant that the VHS was a BETTER VCR because it could actually record the movie.
By the time the extended Betamax came out that could record two movies, VHS had the upperhand in the market, and got economies of scale (which combined with the competition) lowered prices. VHS then got the ability to record up to 6 hours at crappy quality, but given the expense of the tapes, was likely popular (all our old tapes at home had to be trashed, because they were recorded at that quality that degraded to nothing... but I can't guess at actual use in the marketplace from my parents behavior).
In addition, the dirty little secret of VHS was that because it was open, all the porn was in VHS. We now see porn as an easily available vice, but at the time, you choices were go to a seedy theater or VHS. The novelty of being able to watch porn at home likely pushed VHS a bit, even if nobody talked about it. This was in an era before 3 (or even 1/2) adult channels on cable + PPV, Internet porn, etc), and if adults wanted to watch dirty movies in the privacy of their own home, VHS was the only game in town.
However, the REAL reason for VHS's early dominance was the 2 hour recording limit.
While modern TV displays are high quality (especially 1080i/720p HDTV-ready sets), the TVs at the time were MUCH lower quality. The visual difference between VHS and Betamax when actually viewed on a television isn't the night-and-day difference that people make it out to be when using it as an arguement for worse is better.
Facts on the urban legend surrounding Betamax, including Sony's alledged refusal to license betamax.
Alex
>QT is MacOS's audio/video API. You can drag the
/System/Library/Frameworks/Quicktime.framework . Also, Mplayer OS X and Microsoft Windows Media Player works just fine on all Mac OS X boxs without using any Quicktime libraries at all.
>QT player to the trash just fine, but deleting QT would
>be a bit like deleting DirectShow.
Sorry, you're free to delete Quicktime.framework if you see fit. It is located at
How the comment is modded as "score: 3, informative" is beyond me.
I hope he doesn't let this problem fester. I know that's an awful joke. I just wanted to show how to use the word in a sentence.
This is even more off-topic, but hey, thanks for the link. :^)
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
No sympathy from me... If I want the performance benefits of Panther (which were huge), I get brushed metal everywhere...
One brushed metal app gets you ZERO sympathy from me...
Alex
Sorenson made some codecs for Apple, much like FairPlay has licensed out DRM to Apple. Someone else tried to license technology from Sorenson and Apple took them to court. Water, rinse, repeat.
-]Phreak Out[-
Here's a list of the portable MP3 players you can use with iTunes. Apple doesn't go out of their way to promote this functionality on the iTunes areas of their site, because they obviously would rather promote the iPod.
"He'd be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once." - Steve Jobs on Bill Gates
Windows will still include Windows Media Player, so anyone could use it instead of the including iTunes software. Users now have a choice, and MS is worried that they will loose userbase to the better software.
This signature was left intentionally blank.
Microsoft can argue about music player choice when they've leaned on RCA to release software so you can talk to their players on machines not running WMP or MusicMatch.
Price of leather shoes (no name) in USA? 40-100$ in Slovakia? 10-50..
yes, the price structure is comprable with income levels.
Food, not namebrand clothes, personal services, resturants, cigarettes..
However, price of sony electronics?- damn near the same.
CD's- within a dollar of prices at home- film? kodak was the same price..
I believe that ... a wage that will never allow them to buy all these products your company is selling. truly does exist in places.. read about some of the labor conditions in china vs. the wage..
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
According to this article from Wired, "We're not going to be supporting WMA for now," said Muffi Ghadiali, product marketing manager for HP's digital entertainment products group.
This was so Good, I am going out and buying some Pepsi, and the iTunes giveaway hasn't event started.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
"were", "steal", and run-ons
Is tHat sO Mr random Capitalization? Bad Engines, bad!
Whatever point you were trying to make is lost completely due to your fledgling grasp of basic English. If English is your second language, I suggest that you keep dictionary.com and strunk and white's open at all times.
I also read an article about vegatable import in African countries; western countries sold food at a LOSS -- just to maintain monopoly and make sure local farmers couldn't compete. Happens with all kinds of products.
Lalala
I wrote something to replace the missing Internet PrefPane - it's called MoreInternet and can be found on my site - http://www.monkeyfood.com
I'm so sick of MS being such a crybaby. Looks guys, face reality, there are some very good competitors out there who would like to make some money in a market that you don't dominate, yet. So, cry a bit, try to buy something you can rush to market, lock it in to Windows so your user base DOESNT have a choice and the others will come up with something new and the whole merry go round can start all over again. Get over it.
Sour grapes by Johnny come lately
Too much profit is now capitalized
for more convenient looting by
the management and board.
As long as you choose M$, of course.
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
Just curious, how many out there are using iPods with Linux to load/unload song to it? How well does it work? What tools do you use since there is no iTunes for Linux?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
3...2...1... Ogg Vorbis! Who wants my $400?
I have a plan. Using mainly spoons, we'll tunnel our way out of the city...
Over the past year I've switched from one format to the other, always investigating claims that one codec was better than the next. I did my own comparison tests between MP3,OGG,WMA and later AAC. The one that impressed me the most from a quality perspective was aac, while I desired the "openness" of ogg. Yes, I realise AAC is not an Apple proprietary format (though their DRM encoded files are). I wanted very much to like OGG, and gave it every opportunity to impress me. To my ears however it just sounded "flat" (regardless of bitrate) and I couldn't convince myself otherwise, no matter how I tried.
When iTunes for Windows was released I immediately started encoding to AAC. I loved it. AAC at 160kbps sounded fantastic with a lot of detail and range. It had that "full" sound that I thought was lacking in OGG. What I didn't like was the lack of encoding settings iTunes provided. Not a big deal really - as it did sound very good. But it hit me that (at the time) if I wanted to play AAC outside of iTunes, I'd need a plugin for Winamp (no longer req'd). What if I wanted to play these files off my dvd player or other multi-format device? I'm sure AAC is here to stay, but I wanted to be able to play my music on devices other than just my PC. For portabiltiy I have an external USB 2 hard disk.
I then thought it best to give MP3 another chance. I searched and eventually found www.jthz.com/mp3/ Using this site as a resource, I managed to encode high quality VBR MP3s which use slightly less space than comperably encoded AACs and sound every bit as good. It's a shame how MP3 has received some hard knocks lately as everyone rushes to the latest codec of the month. I'm convinced that the only reason these other codecs exist (aside from OGG) is not for quality reasons whatsoever. They're here because they allow better DRM - that's it! Now if people would spend the time and learn to encode their MP3s properly rather than accepting the defaults (typically 128kbps) of whatever all-in-one app they happen to be using, perhaps these "superior" formats wouldn't be getting as much positive press.
www.brownsauce.org
Yo, fucktard. Pull your head from your ass for a moment. He has MP3's. Audio support for the iPod is AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 (32 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible, AIFF (Mac only) and WAV. HE HAS MP3'S. THE IPOD PLAYS MP3'S. Forget the lawyers. Kill all of the dumbasses.
A report in Connected Home Magazine has suggested...support for Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year."
This same website keeps getting trotted out as evidence of WMA support. I've done a little looking, and every other mention of WMA support for the iPod refers to this site. How about a little more evidence before that keeps getting repeated, eh guys?
I came from a good union household and was trained at an early age to buy union (and US-made) whenever possible (and also to vote Democrat, but that's really another whole off-topic issue). My parents bought a Magnavox TV (which still works and is fine for them) when it was the last US manufacturer and my Dad wears a Hamilton watch (the last remaining US watch manufacturer, I believe). Until recently, I drove a Ford (I came from a Ford family, rather than a GM family) and bought US-made applicances. But to prove I'm not much of a flag waver, I hate America's greatest company, Wal-Mart: the home of all things cheaply produced in third-world countries.
Alas, I'm one of the few people who was willing to pay extra to try to keep a few of my friends in work and now I'm looking for work (in the US) too. So I guess you're right, I tried not to benefit but am still stuck with the results.
I am not an antitrust lawyer but it seems to me that Microsoft is setting the foundation for impending litigation if it finds itself unable to innovate itself through Apple and it's music store.
"As most here incredibly well versed in, manufacturers are forbidden by law to compel their customers to purchase an unwanted product as a prerequisite to buying another product. (read operating systems forced upon buyers) This illegal practice is known as "tying."
"Findlaw.com defines tying as "an arrangement or agreement in which a seller will sell a product to a buyer only if the buyer will also buy another product."
Findlaw.com further discusses tying:
"Sellers with more than one product may seek to tie the sale of one (which the customer presumably desires) with that of another (which it presumably does not want). Such tie-ins are governed not only by the general language of the Sherman Act, but the more particular provisions of Section 3 of the Clayton Act, which prohibits such arrangements if the likely result is substantially to lessen competition. Tie-ins are per se unlawful if the seller possesses sufficient market power in the tying product, and coerces the buyer to take the tied product as a condition to obtaining the desired product.
(Walt Pennington - desktoplinux.com)
It seems a logical step to say that Microsoft will argue that Apple is tying the sale of it's music (which microsoft will argue is the desired product) with that of its music player (which, Redmond will - perhaps tongue in cheek in front of consumers who LOVE their iPods - say is the unwanted product.)
I think it is an interesting possible move, if one that may be bad for the industry. I think that people should be able to use the players they want for the music they OWN - imagine only being able to use a sony compact disc player for sony signed artists - but the pay to download music infrastructure just isn't ready at this point in time for fracturization. Apple isn't making any money on the music, just the players. Until money can viably be made, pay to download music services will be close to a precipice that can only be avoided by at first solidifying and standardizing the content and the distribution method.
fester
v. festered, festering, festers
v. intr.
To generate pus; suppurate.
To form an ulcer.
To undergo decay; rot.
TO BE OR BECOME A SOURCE OF IRRITATION or poisoning; rankle: bitterness that festered and grew.
To be subject to or exist in a condition of decline: allowed the once beautiful park to fester.
I'm guessing he changed his name to Fester because it was more apropos.
Granted, some of the cooler features of the iTunes require use of an iPod (iTMS content, iCal integation, etc) . . . but even on OS X, I use my old-school Creative Nomad Jukebox with iTunes just fine. I would assume this works on Windows as well. I also have to believe that if my Nomad works (with no hacking, just out of the box) then other players probably work too. I sync'd my whole library, and playlists, to my Nomad with the same ease that I now sync to my iPod.
Me either. I usually keep them associated with Acrobat or Preview....oh...wait...
You know what?
... the huge...mind bogglingly enormous...value of the confiscated lands on which the railroads, (and today's interstates, for that matter) were built. We have NO idea of what a transportation system built purely on free market value would look like. The government seizes land from citizens at a fraction of the value it would have in any completely private transaction. We have/had trains...now interstates....because that is what the government subsidizes in a many ways, someof them not so obvious....
(good examples, BTW)
I don't usually read MS bashing threads, but the rest of the news blows today. Aparently all I have to do is say MS sucks to get modded +5.
MS Sucks!
MS Sucks!
I said it twice, now you owe me 10.
--
Ah screw it, you're not paying attention anyway.
Railroads were funded in the west largely by the federal government. They were granted ownership of alternating sections (square miles, minimum) along the ROW. In other words, the govt gave them land.
In the east, the incentives were more mixed but included tarriffs.
If HP didn't move jobs overseas, they would not be competitive and the company would die, only to be replaced by another overseas-outsourcing company.
For years, it's been said that "voting with your dollars" will make them care. Realistically, too few ppl do this to make a difference. The majority of consumers will ALWAYS go for a product with a lower price, and that's why you can't find a new TV that's made in the USA anymore.
If you really analyze the situation from an objective standpoint, it's Darwinism and adaptation at its best.
You may now resume blasting India...
If you run Linux, you are extremely limited in your hardware and software choices. If you run OSX, you are likewise extremely limited- not only that, but your hardware, for the most part, will HAVE to be made by Apple.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Exactly.. And it's Jon's play scripts that I'm using.. :) Just to make this whole thread more odd.
:)
The whole point, was, the statement implied that windows was about choice, and the whole concept of that is obserd. Mac OS X, IS about choice in comparison. I can choose to not use a GUI, I can choose to run my X apps, and they want you to make those choices.
Also making this even more funny. The same person who replied to me, is also the person who got me into exactly what he's talking about.
-=fshalor
everything you mention, homemade or made by friends
except the computer which was found in a dumpster
to shut up all of the idiots that have never used iTunes.
Yeah, it's not like you can just go out and buy a video card without asking Apples permission...Oh, wait. Well, still, you can't go and upgrade your processor...Oh, right...
Well, you definitely cannot go and swap out motherboards...true, but chances are, you can resell your Mac and upgrade for a reasonable cost.
I know that with an iPod you can't purchase an MP3 and install it...oh, you can? But where can I actually purchase an MP3? Oh, I can't because all the files on the *other* services are WMA files...I see...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
I have a non-ipod that works great with iTunes....I didn't want the stinking large iPod, and was able not to buy it.
In fact, with my player, I don't even have to use iTunes.
I've read through this thread and have some overall responses and see some common misperceptions. First, Fester's comments are not about AAC or the iTunes app - they were about the Store, iPod, and iTunes in combination. Second, Fester is right that music purchased from iTunesMS can only be played in an iPod and iTunes because apple wraps AAC up in a proprietary and unlicensable DRM. Once you wrap a 'standard' codec up in such DRM, it's no longer a standard from the all-important interperability standpoint. third, WMA and WMDRM are freely licensable to ANY music store, device vendor, or software developer to use as they see fit on ANY platform. That's why both are supported in multiple vendor devices (Creative Labs, Rio, etc...), software tools (Adobe, Real, Musicmatch, Winamp), and music stores (Napster, Musicmatch, BestBuy). You may be opposed to WMA for other reasons, but it currently comes closest to replicating the world users currently enjoy, where CDs from any store can be played in CD players from any vendor.
Boo Fucking Hoo!
idiots who don't know how to protect their computers from the outside world use Linux. That I can believe.
"since one or two lines of text seems easier to do and learn."
But you're a nerd. And an idiot if you think that's a mass market (who I'm talking about) or any selling point.
The 1980's called, they want their command prompt back.
The Linux community is Linux's worst enemy.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Except for the news going around that this HP/Apple deal is going to bring WMA support to the iPod. In that case, what you're saying will no longer be true, and the iPod will become even more attractive as it will be the only player that can be used with ALL the services.
Congratulations! You have just won the Least Amount of Sense Award!
Criteria:
Make a generalization.
Have no credible evidence or support.
Be insulting.
Your prize? You get to STFU for as long as you can stand it! We are so proud of you.
Assuming that the WMA support to be added works with any WMA based Music Store, the "hPod" will support more than those devices that only do MP3s and WMAs.
--
My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.
Can someone please explain why MS thinks choice in portable players is good and choice of download services is good, but choice of file formats isn't good?
Seems to me they were so busy protecting the consumers' right to choose that they forgot their OEMs (like H-P) might like a little choice too!
It is really an exiting time when the 2 giants of computer history are working together and the same time are battling for the standard in the unstoppable digitalization of old media formats. The changes of formats have always evolved from analogue to digital and I think this is extremely important to understand that this is THE END of the evolution of media, well I know , almost. Heck we have even wireless communications... This is a big battle and Microsoft is going to try all to try to win it. Considering this stupid press statement it really shows how desperate they are. I like this chess game a lot, do you? Can I have a big applause for Mr. Jobs? Thank you.
"I copied this from somewhere and didn't correct the errors".
HP isn't making them, they're rebranded iPod's with a colored faceplate and an HP Logo.
"Be honest with yourselves and think about how we would we be reacting if the situations were swapped. We would be accusing Microsoft of embracing and extending the AAC file format with their fairplay DRM."
*Sigh* If only that is true. You see, AAC format has provisions for DRM, but what kind of DRM is left to adopter, which in this case Apple. So, the whole thing is extended already without Apple's doing. Notice that Real also uses AAC with their own Helix DRM.
Another point: Apple has been selling iPod for 2 years, iTMS has been around since April last year. Between 2 years ago and April, iPod supported WAV, AIFF and MP3, all open formats. Guess what? iPod was still number one player sold. Apple refusing to use m4a if RIAA allowed it to do so because of the fear of open standard is pure conjecture on your part.
...for what it's worth...
damn zealous moderators...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
So I read it again... and again......and.....again. Does this guy look like the Iraqi information minister? Sure sounds like him. "BUY OUR PRODUCT IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!"
All your base are belong to Google.
The DRM that Apple uses on the iTMS content isn't their own - it's licensed from FairPlay (http://64.244.235.240/). I suspect that anyone who wants to also license the scheme from FairPlay would also be able to create an iTMS compatible player.
I'm relieved to know Microsoft are still looking out for the little man on the street, the ordinary defenseless consumer, and so I am grieving real tears to hear they're unhappy.
It's ruined my day. I might go to bed without dessert tonight.