Reading the responses here on Slashdot, I'm both hopeful and disgusted. EVen something as terrible as this morning's murders is food for the trolls of the universe. On the other hand, I proud to call myself a geek when I read mesages from many fine, caring people here.
So perhaps Slashdot is a good reflection of humanity in general, showing both our good and bad sides.
Here at Coyote Gulch, we're still trying to cope with today's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. We've finally accounted for family, friends and coworkers; I'm grateful that everyone is all right.
Everyone, American or not, must be vigilant that these vcious acts of cowardice do not become tools of self-serving politicians; we can not allow horror to destroy what it is that makes us Americans: our freedoms. This is not the time to hide in our shells, or to the U.S. government turn against its own citizens. As the emotion subsides, we need to find the strength to approach this from the standpoint of justice.
It is never acceptable to kill innocents, whether by terrorist bomb or high-tech missile. I'm all in favor of revenge against the sources of today's atrocities. But revenge must be tempered by knowledge; flattening Kabul or Baghdad is not the solution. We must find who did this, and cleanly ensure that they cannot murder again.
And a final plea: Give blood. Wherever you are. Now. Don't wait. Just do it. Call the Red Cross, call your local hospital, and give a pint to save a life. The best way to respond to death is the celebrate and protect life.
...since their response appears to be measured and reasonable. This is one case where intellectual property is serving its intended purpose: protecting someone's investment in time and money from being dilluted or confused by another product.
Lego has spent many, many years building a reputation associated with their name. And that reputation is well-reserved; truly we can all appreciate how Lego brought MITs research into the hobbiest market. That was a gutsy move on Lego's part, and they should be rewarded for that courage.
Markus Noga is a bright guy, but (as the article states), he crossed the line by naming his product LegOS. He's being a silly ass by claiming he named it after himself, and that the name has nothing to do with "Lego". He's tweaking the nose of the company, even though they provided the basis for his work. There would be no LegOS without Mindstorms...
Lego isn't going after all Mindstorms' hackers, or poeple who've created alternative programming languages. They're protecting their good name, as any of us would do.
And now back to playing with Mindstorms. I'm building a bot with two RCX modules, coordinating them to build a useful exploration rover... this is one damned fine toy, and Lego deserves all the credit in the world for bringing it to us.
My god, someone who's writing code for the fun of it! Kurt's not trying to conquer the world or make some deep philosophical point -- he's just having fun.
Congrats man; let me buy you a beer if you're ever in the Tampa Bay area.
As for the GPL zealots -- well, I just switched to releasing my code under a libpng/zlib-style license. I'm not interested in helping RMS & Company win a revolution by berating people to death...
...I begin to think that Slashdot is finally growing up, some idiot editor like Hemos makes an assinine statement just to prove that I overly optimistic. Just what in the hell is funny about killing cosmonauts, and what does it have to do with space tourism?
Linux seems mired in two markets: High-end, heavy-metal processing, and the geek crowd. It doesn't show up in the middle very much.
Where is Linux in vertical business markets? Where are the integrators? Where is the market for business-oriented components? If such markets exist for Linux, they aren't very prominent.
Let's put it another way: Look on Freshmeat for "point of sale" and "MP3 player". Guess which one has four hits, and which one has more than a hundred? Guess which type of software is more relevant to business?
Linux scales small (older PCs, personal workstations) or large (Beowulf clusters, High-Performance Computing), but it seems to be missing something in the middle ground where most business resides.
That fact makes it very difficult to convince business-oriented companies to support Linux. Beyond the fact that Linux users believe everything should be "free" as in beer, there isn't sufficient support for vertical market development. Integrators build software from components, usually with VB or Delphi under Windows. Where is the component market for Linux? For that matter, where is a common, well-supported, universal component architecture for the penguin? Heck, I still haven't found a Linux installation system that is friendly to non-geeks.
The question is: Does Linux want to cater to the middle ground, to business and "normal" folk? Or should Linux stay where it is strong, leaving the middle to Mr. Gates and his minions?
...than my six-year-old daughter's school district. They came home from their first day of school yesterday with an "Internet Agreement". In part, it states that "students are prohibited from downloading any copyrighted material."
My choice to "not" buy" Kohan for Linux is based on the ethics of Loki. I already have the game for Windows; I don't *need* Kohan (or any other game, for that matter) on Linux. I was going to buy it to support their effort.
Research, however, has convinced me that Loki has not acted honorably. And I will not lend my support to a dishonorable company. If commercial Linux games are a viable business, someone else will pick up the market and -- perhaps -- do a better job both ethically and financially.
In the earlier thread, I urged people to help out Loki by buying their games. In light of recent information (both obtained through friends in the biz and various web articles), I have changed my mind.
I've worked for companies where someone held things together using their personal credit. That's a sign of poor management at best, and sheer stupidity at worst.
Given what I know now, I'd say wait to buy Loki products until someone other than Scott Draeker is in charge there. That's what I intend to do, at least. I was going to buy the Linux port of Kohan this weekend (I own the PC version already); now, I think I'll wait and see where Lokie ends up before giving them my money.
One advantage of C++, in my experience, is its support for multiple paradigms. C++ isn't an object-oriented programming language, or a functional programming language, or a procedural language -- but it allows me to use all of those paradigms as needed to accomplish a task.
Software is like religion in that one solution doesn't fit everyone. Frankly, I'm happier with a well-written piece of Visual Basic than I am with a sloppy piece of C++.
As for functional programming: I think it is another excellent tool, but much overrated by its adherents. Note that I also have the same opinion of object-oriented programming and other paradigms. Each paradigm brings ideas to the table, providing new insights and techniques. None is perfect, and several can be quite useful.
The hallmark of an excellent programmer is the ability to learn and adapt. When I hire someone, I pay more attention to their attitude, creativity, and intelligence than I do to their list of "I knows". Certifications, degrees, and laundry lists don't necessarily impress me; capability and a willingness to learn always catches my interest. And anyone who comes in as a language bigot (or ignoramus) isn't going to be getting a check from me...
I might add that I've been quite successful in finding excellent talent.
As for mechanics -- well, I've spent enough time with gear heads and grease monkeys to know that working on mechanisms isn't something you pick up overnight.
"How many times do I have to tell you: Use the right tool for the right job!" -- Scotty, Chief Engineer, USS Enterprise.
Now where do I fall in a survey like this? After reading it, I conclude that the surveyors asked "Do you use Java?", not "Do you use Java exclusively?". I know lots of people who program C and C++ most of the time while employing Java and other languages as required. In the last month, I've written code in C++ (65%), Java (20%), Python (10%), and Fortran (%5). So I count as both a Java user and a C++ user.
What rattles my gourd is the way people get so defensive about their programming choices. Why do people get so worked up about one specific tool? I don't know any mechanics who argue whether a box wrench is better than a crescent -- they know that each tool has its uses, and they keep many different wrenches in their toolbox.
Sadly, the programming business is replete with dogmatic fools who insist that their language or their technology can do everything from counting sheep to curing cancer. And that's just plain dumb (or at best, willfully ignorant, the greatest of sins.)
A real software engineer uses the right tools for the job. Even Visual Basic is a useful tool, when it is applied to an appropriate task. The same thing holds true for C, C++, Java, COBOL, FORTRAN, Prolog, Lisp, and a myriad of technical tongues. We have all these different languages because different problems required different solutions.
Surely programmers can be as wise as mechanics...;)
If "digital rights management" is "bad", why does Slashdot put an OSDN copyright statement on its web pages?
I'm far more concerned about plugging up the Internet with more crap, i.e. faxes. Why do we need fax over IP anyway? Is it just so Adobe and Xerox can introduce a new uselss must-have product to business, or because there's any crying need for fax-over-IP?
Yup, got Slaskware running finally. It was the dammed MBR; killed it from a DOS boot, set LILO to boot from/dev/hda1, and away Tesla (the computer) went.
Now that I have Slaskware 8 running, I'm pleased. It came with gcc-3.0 as an optional install, saving me from installing manually. Runs quick; once I get X configured the way I like, Slackware may stay on that old box.
...and I've been BUYING their games, too! I bought Heretic II, Heroes III, and others. I'm planning on picking up Kohan this payday...
Loki has produced quality products that deserve the support of gamers. Come on, Slashdot! Show you really give a damn about Linux and BUY something, for chrissakes!
I'm glad to see that Largo is showing originality, courage, and technical savvy by going with Linux.
Of course, the company I'm part of has rejected Linux and Unix completely; they're too scared to get into a market that the top brass doesn't understand. Our company can't expand into new markets because those markets use Solaris/Linux for heavy-metal processing. SO they stay in their nice, safe (?) niche, too frightened to take a risk on the future. The support staff doesn't want to learn Unix (they hate it without really knowing it), and the owner is enamoured of anything Microsoft. Ah, well -- they pay me well and don't restrict my outside activities, so I can afford to do the right thing on my own time...
A side note: I hadn't heard about this before -- which tells you how much I know about what's going on in my own area; I'm in Clearwater, which is adjacent to Largo.
Geographical note for those who care: Pinellas County Florida is just one big city from St. Petersberg to Tarpon Springs, covering a peninsula on the Gulf Coast of Florida. You can find Largo just north of St. Petersberg, and just south of the Scientologyville --- err, I mean Clearwater.;)
It just so happens that I spent this last weekend trying to answer this very question. While I'm pretty comfortable with a low-level Linux distro (I use Debian 2.2r3), I have some potential clients who have older machines and far less technical knowledge.
So I took an old box (233Mhz Pentium-MMX, 160MB, 4.3GB HD, SoundBlaster 128 PCI, S3/VirgeGX, non-name MB) and tried several different non-commercial distros. The candidates were: Slackware 8.0, Mandrake 8.0, Debian 2.2r3.
Note that my analysis was from the standpoint of giving a distro to an uninitiated user -- someone who can drop Windows ME onto a machine with ease, but who has never installed Linux. The results were disturbing.
To begin with, *none* of the distros could automatically install my 4.3GB HD at its full capacity. In every case, no matter what the BIOS settings, I was forced to edit configuration files to get the "whole" drive. Such behavior isn't acceptable for a newbie (or even an expert in a hurry) -- especially since WinDoze has no trouble installing the drive as 4.3GB.
Mandrake had the prettiest installation of the three, and probably the easiest, with two exceptions: DrakX locked up when it tried to start configuring X, and it couldn't seem to install my network properly. I solved the X problme by booting from the HD and manually installing X. As for the network -- well, I can ping the router, I can ping Slashdot, but it won't ping any other systems on my LAN. Apache and FTP daemons won't load for some reason, and I have no clue... yes, it did find my RealTek 8029 (ne2k-pci driver) network card, and I can get to the web via Mozilla. Mandrake is still on the machine, so I'll try to figure things out again tonight. Just plain bizarre.
Next up was Slackware, which seemed to install simply before refusing to boot. I get the "LI" half of lilo, and the machine is dead. The docs suggest that such problems stem from the default kernels, which are compiled with lots of "stuff". So I tried reinstalling with different options, and I tried recompiling the kernel (2.2.19 (?) and 2.4.5) several ways, and I tried using the kernel Slackware employs in its setup (bare.i and bare245.i). No go; always the same result.
And yes, I've recompiled more kernels than I care to remember; I know all about running lilo and such. Even if the recompiled kernel *had* worked, such technical wizardry is not acceptable for someone used to the ease of Windows.
If I booted from the CD and mounted my root on the HD, Slackware looked pretty good. The network worked; X worked. But I have no idea how to install it so it will boot from the HD directly.
Debian worked quite well, installing a small base system. I needed to make a minor change to the modules configuration to load the driver for the network card; otherwise, I had a simple, working Linux system on tap in less than 45 minutes, including X. The problem with Debian: The release distro (2.2r3) is a bit old and behind the times. On the other hand, so is my test machine, so maybe that's why they get along (grumpy old hardware?)
For my own workstations, I'll stick with Debian and my tried-and-true system of using it to provide a base install that I then upgrade manually as needed.
Some final thoughts:
Debian is great for those of us in the "know". Love my Debian. It installs small, has a simple and elegant package management scheme, and it expects me to know what I'm doing.
For "normal" folk, though, *none* of these distros would be adequate. Windows is such a joy to install -- you put the disk in, you answer a few questions, and you have a working computer. While Mandrake's install is very nice, it still requires technical expertise beyond the desire of most "users".
You might want to look at SuSE or Red Hat; perhaps they're better-suited to the beginner. I have both distros, but they're old copies (v6.2 for both). Red Hat pissed me off by using the 2.96 snapshot of the GCC package; I didn't have time to download and burn SuSE CDs.
In the end, I still don't see Linux as ready for the desktop or the "user" community. It still needs to mature a bit -- and as an "expert" (note the quotes), I'll stick with Debian for now. It has worked on *every* machine I've installed it on; I can't even say that of WinDoze.
...unless it has bad associations.
Every time I head "Attack of the Clones", I think of "Killer Clowns from Outer Space.";)
Ah well, Star Wars ran its course and is now on a gravy run. I'm looking forward to Lord of the Rings...
Older workers (I'm hitting the big 4-oh this year) have negatives beyond age. We often have wives and families, which mean we're unwilling to work 6-80 hour weeks and on weekends. Wives also come with children in many cases -- leading "mature" workers to want benefits like insurance and pension plans.
A couple of decades ago, having a family was a *plus* when applying for a job; it proved stability and responsibility. Today, when the average tech job lasts for a year or two (if that!), employers are more interested in cost-cutting and reducing benefit loads. Which may explain why so much software today just simply sucks...
The same force that drove manufacturing jobs -- cheap labor -- overseas will now begin to eat away at the U.S. tech industry. Someone working in Mexico or India requires a lower salaray and fewer benefits than the equivalent U.S. worker. In a world driven entirly by the collection of wealth, does it surprise anyone that tech company have foreign development shops or employ H1B indentured servants?
-- Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
Sounds like those environmentalists who destroy property to protest the destruction of the environment...;)
My point is: Why would Joe Shmoe move his officeplace to Linux, if Linux presents itself as a clone of Windows? Office apes don't care about free software; they just want to do their job. Why go with a Linux clone when you can just buy Windows have have the original?
-- Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
...would be for people to be original in developing Linux products?
I'm not defending Adobe here -- but who knows, maybe they have a Linux Illustrator in the works, and have reason to defend their trademark? Just something to think about...
Intellectual honesty time: Would KIllustrator have that name if Adobe Illustrator didn't exist?
Here's the real question, tho: Why do Window-hating Linux developers clone of Windows applications and technologies? We have clones of Word, Visio, TWAIN -- hell, KDE and Gnome often try to clone Windows, right down to the damnable "Start" button.
YUCK!
Of course, Linux itself is a clone, so maybe I'm expecting too much of its developer community...
Write a killer app for Linux, and people will come.
-- Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
Necessity is in the eye of the beholder...
on
Eco-Terrorism
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· Score: 3
Yeah, I drive a big SUV. A 3/4 ton, 4x4, 1985 Chevy Suburban, to be precise. Big honkin' truck... and I live in an urban area, so I guess I'm scum, right, michael?
Of course, you might want to know why I own such a truck, before you set fire to it or slash my tires.
When I bought the truck (used; think of it as recycling), I was living in Colorado's San Juan mountains. My wife was an EMT and Red Cross manager in a small mountain town 50 miles from the nearest hospital; I helped out search & rescue when some urban nitwit got lost in the wilderness. A big truck was a necessity, not an ego trip...
Now I live in the Tampa-St. Pete area of Florida -- quite a change, from mountain wilderness to seaside retirement mecca. A good job brought me down here -- and I'm still driving the big truck. Why?
Well, my wife continues her Red Cross work -- we often have supplies to move, or people to haul. And in the event of a hurricane, my fully-loaded medical kit, big winch, and four-wheel drive might just save someone's butt or property.
As for the environment -- well, let's just say I've got plenty of scars to prove my devotion to mother earth. Who set you (or the Earth Liberation Front) up as gods to determine who is being morally correct or not? Maybe the owners of that SUV dealership are scum -- or maybe they're damned fine citizens who work hard to make the world better.
We have a society of law, michael. I'm sure you appreciate such laws when they keep numb-nut right wingers from slaughtering gays, or when copyright protects some precious piece of "free" software. But you're perfectly willing to break the laws that protected you when a moral high horse takes you for a ride...
-- Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
Slashdot Mirror
Reading the responses here on Slashdot, I'm both hopeful and disgusted. EVen something as terrible as this morning's murders is food for the trolls of the universe. On the other hand, I proud to call myself a geek when I read mesages from many fine, caring people here.
So perhaps Slashdot is a good reflection of humanity in general, showing both our good and bad sides.
Here at Coyote Gulch, we're still trying to cope with today's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. We've finally accounted for family, friends and coworkers; I'm grateful that everyone is all right.
Everyone, American or not, must be vigilant that these vcious acts of cowardice do not become tools of self-serving politicians; we can not allow horror to destroy what it is that makes us Americans: our freedoms. This is not the time to hide in our shells, or to the U.S. government turn against its own citizens. As the emotion subsides, we need to find the strength to approach this from the standpoint of justice.
It is never acceptable to kill innocents, whether by terrorist bomb or high-tech missile. I'm all in favor of revenge against the sources of today's atrocities. But revenge must be tempered by knowledge; flattening Kabul or Baghdad is not the solution. We must find who did this, and cleanly ensure that they cannot murder again.
And a final plea: Give blood. Wherever you are. Now. Don't wait. Just do it. Call the Red Cross, call your local hospital, and give a pint to save a life. The best way to respond to death is the celebrate and protect life.
Lego has spent many, many years building a reputation associated with their name. And that reputation is well-reserved; truly we can all appreciate how Lego brought MITs research into the hobbiest market. That was a gutsy move on Lego's part, and they should be rewarded for that courage.
Markus Noga is a bright guy, but (as the article states), he crossed the line by naming his product LegOS. He's being a silly ass by claiming he named it after himself, and that the name has nothing to do with "Lego". He's tweaking the nose of the company, even though they provided the basis for his work. There would be no LegOS without Mindstorms...
Lego isn't going after all Mindstorms' hackers, or poeple who've created alternative programming languages. They're protecting their good name, as any of us would do.
And now back to playing with Mindstorms. I'm building a bot with two RCX modules, coordinating them to build a useful exploration rover... this is one damned fine toy, and Lego deserves all the credit in the world for bringing it to us.
I didn't want to use the article as an ad, but if you insist...
Java Indexed Serialization Package
LifeBox - A Cellular Automata Simulator
Traveller - A Genetic Algorithm for Solving the Travelling Salesman Problem
My god, someone who's writing code for the fun of it! Kurt's not trying to conquer the world or make some deep philosophical point -- he's just having fun.
Congrats man; let me buy you a beer if you're ever in the Tampa Bay area.
As for the GPL zealots -- well, I just switched to releasing my code under a libpng/zlib-style license. I'm not interested in helping RMS & Company win a revolution by berating people to death...
... the Golden Rule -- the person with the gold makes the rules. And Republican or Democrat, politicians pay close attention to who has the gold...
Is anyone actually surprised by this outcome? I'm not.
...I begin to think that Slashdot is finally growing up, some idiot editor like Hemos makes an assinine statement just to prove that I overly optimistic. Just what in the hell is funny about killing cosmonauts, and what does it have to do with space tourism?
Grow up, Hemos.
Linux seems mired in two markets: High-end, heavy-metal processing, and the geek crowd. It doesn't show up in the middle very much.
Where is Linux in vertical business markets? Where are the integrators? Where is the market for business-oriented components? If such markets exist for Linux, they aren't very prominent.
Let's put it another way: Look on Freshmeat for "point of sale" and "MP3 player". Guess which one has four hits, and which one has more than a hundred? Guess which type of software is more relevant to business?
Linux scales small (older PCs, personal workstations) or large (Beowulf clusters, High-Performance Computing), but it seems to be missing something in the middle ground where most business resides.
That fact makes it very difficult to convince business-oriented companies to support Linux. Beyond the fact that Linux users believe everything should be "free" as in beer, there isn't sufficient support for vertical market development. Integrators build software from components, usually with VB or Delphi under Windows. Where is the component market for Linux? For that matter, where is a common, well-supported, universal component architecture for the penguin? Heck, I still haven't found a Linux installation system that is friendly to non-geeks.
The question is: Does Linux want to cater to the middle ground, to business and "normal" folk? Or should Linux stay where it is strong, leaving the middle to Mr. Gates and his minions?
...than my six-year-old daughter's school district. They came home from their first day of school yesterday with an "Internet Agreement". In part, it states that "students are prohibited from downloading any copyrighted material."
My choice to "not" buy" Kohan for Linux is based on the ethics of Loki. I already have the game for Windows; I don't *need* Kohan (or any other game, for that matter) on Linux. I was going to buy it to support their effort.
Research, however, has convinced me that Loki has not acted honorably. And I will not lend my support to a dishonorable company. If commercial Linux games are a viable business, someone else will pick up the market and -- perhaps -- do a better job both ethically and financially.
In the earlier thread, I urged people to help out Loki by buying their games. In light of recent information (both obtained through friends in the biz and various web articles), I have changed my mind.
I've worked for companies where someone held things together using their personal credit. That's a sign of poor management at best, and sheer stupidity at worst.
Given what I know now, I'd say wait to buy Loki products until someone other than Scott Draeker is in charge there. That's what I intend to do, at least. I was going to buy the Linux port of Kohan this weekend (I own the PC version already); now, I think I'll wait and see where Lokie ends up before giving them my money.
One advantage of C++, in my experience, is its support for multiple paradigms. C++ isn't an object-oriented programming language, or a functional programming language, or a procedural language -- but it allows me to use all of those paradigms as needed to accomplish a task.
Software is like religion in that one solution doesn't fit everyone. Frankly, I'm happier with a well-written piece of Visual Basic than I am with a sloppy piece of C++.
As for functional programming: I think it is another excellent tool, but much overrated by its adherents. Note that I also have the same opinion of object-oriented programming and other paradigms. Each paradigm brings ideas to the table, providing new insights and techniques. None is perfect, and several can be quite useful.
The hallmark of an excellent programmer is the ability to learn and adapt. When I hire someone, I pay more attention to their attitude, creativity, and intelligence than I do to their list of "I knows". Certifications, degrees, and laundry lists don't necessarily impress me; capability and a willingness to learn always catches my interest. And anyone who comes in as a language bigot (or ignoramus) isn't going to be getting a check from me...
I might add that I've been quite successful in finding excellent talent.
As for mechanics -- well, I've spent enough time with gear heads and grease monkeys to know that working on mechanisms isn't something you pick up overnight.
"How many times do I have to tell you: Use the right tool for the right job!" -- Scotty, Chief Engineer, USS Enterprise.
Now where do I fall in a survey like this? After reading it, I conclude that the surveyors asked "Do you use Java?", not "Do you use Java exclusively?". I know lots of people who program C and C++ most of the time while employing Java and other languages as required. In the last month, I've written code in C++ (65%), Java (20%), Python (10%), and Fortran (%5). So I count as both a Java user and a C++ user.
What rattles my gourd is the way people get so defensive about their programming choices. Why do people get so worked up about one specific tool? I don't know any mechanics who argue whether a box wrench is better than a crescent -- they know that each tool has its uses, and they keep many different wrenches in their toolbox.
Sadly, the programming business is replete with dogmatic fools who insist that their language or their technology can do everything from counting sheep to curing cancer. And that's just plain dumb (or at best, willfully ignorant, the greatest of sins.)
A real software engineer uses the right tools for the job. Even Visual Basic is a useful tool, when it is applied to an appropriate task. The same thing holds true for C, C++, Java, COBOL, FORTRAN, Prolog, Lisp, and a myriad of technical tongues. We have all these different languages because different problems required different solutions.
Surely programmers can be as wise as mechanics... ;)
If "digital rights management" is "bad", why does Slashdot put an OSDN copyright statement on its web pages?
I'm far more concerned about plugging up the Internet with more crap, i.e. faxes. Why do we need fax over IP anyway? Is it just so Adobe and Xerox can introduce a new uselss must-have product to business, or because there's any crying need for fax-over-IP?
Yup, got Slaskware running finally. It was the dammed MBR; killed it from a DOS boot, set LILO to boot from /dev/hda1, and away Tesla (the computer) went.
Now that I have Slaskware 8 running, I'm pleased. It came with gcc-3.0 as an optional install, saving me from installing manually. Runs quick; once I get X configured the way I like, Slackware may stay on that old box.
Loki has produced quality products that deserve the support of gamers. Come on, Slashdot! Show you really give a damn about Linux and BUY something, for chrissakes!
Thank you very much; that sounds like my problem!
I'm glad to see that Largo is showing originality, courage, and technical savvy by going with Linux.
Of course, the company I'm part of has rejected Linux and Unix completely; they're too scared to get into a market that the top brass doesn't understand. Our company can't expand into new markets because those markets use Solaris/Linux for heavy-metal processing. SO they stay in their nice, safe (?) niche, too frightened to take a risk on the future. The support staff doesn't want to learn Unix (they hate it without really knowing it), and the owner is enamoured of anything Microsoft. Ah, well -- they pay me well and don't restrict my outside activities, so I can afford to do the right thing on my own time...
A side note: I hadn't heard about this before -- which tells you how much I know about what's going on in my own area; I'm in Clearwater, which is adjacent to Largo.
Geographical note for those who care: Pinellas County Florida is just one big city from St. Petersberg to Tarpon Springs, covering a peninsula on the Gulf Coast of Florida. You can find Largo just north of St. Petersberg, and just south of the Scientologyville --- err, I mean Clearwater. ;)
It just so happens that I spent this last weekend trying to answer this very question. While I'm pretty comfortable with a low-level Linux distro (I use Debian 2.2r3), I have some potential clients who have older machines and far less technical knowledge.
So I took an old box (233Mhz Pentium-MMX, 160MB, 4.3GB HD, SoundBlaster 128 PCI, S3/VirgeGX, non-name MB) and tried several different non-commercial distros. The candidates were: Slackware 8.0, Mandrake 8.0, Debian 2.2r3.
Note that my analysis was from the standpoint of giving a distro to an uninitiated user -- someone who can drop Windows ME onto a machine with ease, but who has never installed Linux. The results were disturbing.
To begin with, *none* of the distros could automatically install my 4.3GB HD at its full capacity. In every case, no matter what the BIOS settings, I was forced to edit configuration files to get the "whole" drive. Such behavior isn't acceptable for a newbie (or even an expert in a hurry) -- especially since WinDoze has no trouble installing the drive as 4.3GB.
Mandrake had the prettiest installation of the three, and probably the easiest, with two exceptions: DrakX locked up when it tried to start configuring X, and it couldn't seem to install my network properly. I solved the X problme by booting from the HD and manually installing X. As for the network -- well, I can ping the router, I can ping Slashdot, but it won't ping any other systems on my LAN. Apache and FTP daemons won't load for some reason, and I have no clue... yes, it did find my RealTek 8029 (ne2k-pci driver) network card, and I can get to the web via Mozilla. Mandrake is still on the machine, so I'll try to figure things out again tonight. Just plain bizarre.
Next up was Slackware, which seemed to install simply before refusing to boot. I get the "LI" half of lilo, and the machine is dead. The docs suggest that such problems stem from the default kernels, which are compiled with lots of "stuff". So I tried reinstalling with different options, and I tried recompiling the kernel (2.2.19 (?) and 2.4.5) several ways, and I tried using the kernel Slackware employs in its setup (bare.i and bare245.i). No go; always the same result.And yes, I've recompiled more kernels than I care to remember; I know all about running lilo and such. Even if the recompiled kernel *had* worked, such technical wizardry is not acceptable for someone used to the ease of Windows.
If I booted from the CD and mounted my root on the HD, Slackware looked pretty good. The network worked; X worked. But I have no idea how to install it so it will boot from the HD directly.
Debian worked quite well, installing a small base system. I needed to make a minor change to the modules configuration to load the driver for the network card; otherwise, I had a simple, working Linux system on tap in less than 45 minutes, including X. The problem with Debian: The release distro (2.2r3) is a bit old and behind the times. On the other hand, so is my test machine, so maybe that's why they get along (grumpy old hardware?)
For my own workstations, I'll stick with Debian and my tried-and-true system of using it to provide a base install that I then upgrade manually as needed.
Some final thoughts:
Debian is great for those of us in the "know". Love my Debian. It installs small, has a simple and elegant package management scheme, and it expects me to know what I'm doing.
For "normal" folk, though, *none* of these distros would be adequate. Windows is such a joy to install -- you put the disk in, you answer a few questions, and you have a working computer. While Mandrake's install is very nice, it still requires technical expertise beyond the desire of most "users".
You might want to look at SuSE or Red Hat; perhaps they're better-suited to the beginner. I have both distros, but they're old copies (v6.2 for both). Red Hat pissed me off by using the 2.96 snapshot of the GCC package; I didn't have time to download and burn SuSE CDs.
In the end, I still don't see Linux as ready for the desktop or the "user" community. It still needs to mature a bit -- and as an "expert" (note the quotes), I'll stick with Debian for now. It has worked on *every* machine I've installed it on; I can't even say that of WinDoze.
...unless it has bad associations. Every time I head "Attack of the Clones", I think of "Killer Clowns from Outer Space." ;)
Ah well, Star Wars ran its course and is now on a gravy run. I'm looking forward to Lord of the Rings...
Older workers (I'm hitting the big 4-oh this year) have negatives beyond age. We often have wives and families, which mean we're unwilling to work 6-80 hour weeks and on weekends. Wives also come with children in many cases -- leading "mature" workers to want benefits like insurance and pension plans.
A couple of decades ago, having a family was a *plus* when applying for a job; it proved stability and responsibility. Today, when the average tech job lasts for a year or two (if that!), employers are more interested in cost-cutting and reducing benefit loads. Which may explain why so much software today just simply sucks...
The same force that drove manufacturing jobs -- cheap labor -- overseas will now begin to eat away at the U.S. tech industry. Someone working in Mexico or India requires a lower salaray and fewer benefits than the equivalent U.S. worker. In a world driven entirly by the collection of wealth, does it surprise anyone that tech company have foreign development shops or employ H1B indentured servants?
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Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
Sounds like those environmentalists who destroy property to protest the destruction of the environment... ;)
My point is: Why would Joe Shmoe move his officeplace to Linux, if Linux presents itself as a clone of Windows? Office apes don't care about free software; they just want to do their job. Why go with a Linux clone when you can just buy Windows have have the original?
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Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
I'm not defending Adobe here -- but who knows, maybe they have a Linux Illustrator in the works, and have reason to defend their trademark? Just something to think about...
Intellectual honesty time: Would KIllustrator have that name if Adobe Illustrator didn't exist?
Here's the real question, tho: Why do Window-hating Linux developers clone of Windows applications and technologies? We have clones of Word, Visio, TWAIN -- hell, KDE and Gnome often try to clone Windows, right down to the damnable "Start" button.
YUCK!
Of course, Linux itself is a clone, so maybe I'm expecting too much of its developer community...
Write a killer app for Linux, and people will come.
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Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
Yeah, I drive a big SUV. A 3/4 ton, 4x4, 1985 Chevy Suburban, to be precise. Big honkin' truck... and I live in an urban area, so I guess I'm scum, right, michael?
Of course, you might want to know why I own such a truck, before you set fire to it or slash my tires.
When I bought the truck (used; think of it as recycling), I was living in Colorado's San Juan mountains. My wife was an EMT and Red Cross manager in a small mountain town 50 miles from the nearest hospital; I helped out search & rescue when some urban nitwit got lost in the wilderness. A big truck was a necessity, not an ego trip...
Now I live in the Tampa-St. Pete area of Florida -- quite a change, from mountain wilderness to seaside retirement mecca. A good job brought me down here -- and I'm still driving the big truck. Why?
Well, my wife continues her Red Cross work -- we often have supplies to move, or people to haul. And in the event of a hurricane, my fully-loaded medical kit, big winch, and four-wheel drive might just save someone's butt or property.
As for the environment -- well, let's just say I've got plenty of scars to prove my devotion to mother earth. Who set you (or the Earth Liberation Front) up as gods to determine who is being morally correct or not? Maybe the owners of that SUV dealership are scum -- or maybe they're damned fine citizens who work hard to make the world better.
We have a society of law, michael. I'm sure you appreciate such laws when they keep numb-nut right wingers from slaughtering gays, or when copyright protects some precious piece of "free" software. But you're perfectly willing to break the laws that protected you when a moral high horse takes you for a ride...
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Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
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Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos