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NYSE Goes To Linux
Aligrip writes "It appears that IBM has convinced the folks at the Securities Industry Automation Corp (SIAC) to move their entire trading network to Linux as explained in this article in the Investors Business Daily. The authors predict that this deal could give Linux "a hot new beachhead with financial institutions". Cool!"
...of Science Applications International Corporation.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
it will run Mandrake. It's the nicest Linux distribution available: robust and friendly. Traders won't use something they don't understand.
SIAC is what you meant.
Hopefully someone competent will put the system into place. Otherwise, you can be sure that Microsoft will make sure everyone knows that Linux screwed up the stock market. It needs to be rock solid and as flawless as possible.
Not with the latest kernel. They have a patch for that. Look for MSFT to go down unexplicably, though.
your investments are belong to us
;)
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
Didn't these guys switch to NT a few years ago? Now their switching to linux. Hehe cool....
Finally, a place for hackers at banks that doesn't involve maintaining 30yr old Cobol programs!
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
What, me worry?
Maybe they can put some code in there to boost some of the Linux stocks now...
They can say whatever they want. Linux will bloom people!
42 + 1 = 42
A couple of years ago, we at the Portuguese Stock Exchange, started working with Linux. I don't know if it is still used. But it was meant to do a lot of work.
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------
Nice to see that the people running the NYSE know how money works, and that linux is good value.
~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
By the way, this wouldn't happen to have anything to do with the semi-recent stock market crashes, reportedly due to NT? What was the final say on that stuff? Was it really NT?
My sigs always suck.
Especially since the Financial field uses alot of very custom made stuff, it is not like thay are just going to go with Access.
The hidden advantadge is that people with access to money will now have first hand experience with Linux, and this will expose any lies in the marketing spin that is out there.
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What is Linux?
NYSE is supported by SIAC, not SAIC. SAIC is "Science Applications International Corporation".
With NYSE making this move, it's very likely that AMEX, NSCC & GSCC will eventually make this move as well, since they are all supported by SIAC.
- Former SIAC consultant
In the article, it said, they are using solaris.
Does this mean that Linus does all his best coading on speed
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
I would be interested in seeing if IBM or someone else could convince people to convert over from Windows systems. For years it's been people going from Unix to Windows - going the other way would be the real trick.
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
I love IBM. They seem like they have their hooks into everything. This is wonderful press for for the linux community, as the NYSE is sacred to a lot of people. I have faith that the International Brotherhood of Machinists will do their best to make everything run smoothly.
I can understand why IBM and other companies are jumping on the band wagon, less depency on one company so that that company can't control the marketplace. As a consumer, that is not my reasonong. I just want something that won't crash and give me the stability that I want without being too bloated(if you configure LiNuX right, it won't be bloated.) It's a great idea and since no single company really owns Linux, it is extremely hard(not impossible) for one company to control the Linux marketplace. The more people we get to jump on the Band Wagon, the better we are off. More people will develop software for it which encourages growth by giving more of a reason to switch which increases demand and causes for software to be developed. If MSWord, Excel, etc. came onto Linux and had better printer support, more businesses would swith even if for the extra stability and better networked capabilities.
Just because a bunch of people believe or do something stupid, doesn't make it any less stupid.
Congrats to IBM, but, this will get much more interesting when client software for traders and average investors (like my Dad) is available as part of a Linux desktop solution. Then masses can switch, not just a few institutions (not to minimize the import of this, but getting to the user's desktops is _my_ real concern). This is a critical piece of the desktop stranglehold microsoft has at this time.
Does this mean we can expect database crashes every couple of days like on Slashdot? I sure as hell don't trust a shitty operating system written by a bunch of unhygienic GNU hippies with my investments, nor would I trust them with my company's stock if I were listed. Just another reason for companies to go to the (far superior) NASDAQ. This is another nail in the coffin for the big board.
guk is gay
Graham says SIAC converted to Linux quickly because of the software's open, flexible nature. "We were able to port our Artmail application in about two-and-a-half days," Graham said.
I would speculate they weren't running NT before if it was that easy to port their software over. So this takes a chunk out of the proprietary Unix market, sure, but if we were to consider this a Zero Sum game, Unix loses, Linux gains, Microsoft doesn't change a thing.
Now granted, other Unix shops might now say 'Well, if the NYSE does it, we can do it too!' But the Microsoft market won't feel any pressure from this until there is a similar porting comment when coming from a Windows shop.
I guess it becomes interesting now that one of the nation's largest financial institutions is running on free software. I think this is going to make a very powerful case for open source software in both small and large businesses, and even in market places where big money is traded. It means that finally the big guys are beginning to realize that stability and reliability are more important than unstable fads and fuds. (note my pathetic pun).
Oh yes, for the sake of redundancy, I will repeat that earlier post: All your investments are belong to us!
Am I a hipster-doofus?
It looks like IBM may be using Linux as a weapon against Microsoft. That's fine with me, hopefully when the powers that be see the power of Linux they will put in motion an effort to get more resources involved in Linux development. IBM could be sparking a pretty serious fire that M$ may have a hard time putting out.
~ now you know
I believe none on NYSE is run by NT, and the only SE that is run with NT is Nazdac (sp?) via a custom deal with MS.
Science Applications International Corporation is not siac. SAIC is much spookier. You need a hairy security clearance for much of the stuff they do.
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Considering i used to work at SIAC, with the IT departments, its pretty cool that they made it onto slashdot.
I know they were a mixed shop between OS/2 Warp Server, Novell and NT (At least on the Desktop/Application server level). I had the privilege of helping convert from Token Ring to Ethernet and OS/2 Warp Server to NT Server (Post Trade Development / PTSG if Anyone from SIAC is reading)
"Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair... Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy was he?"
Unfortunatly I don't have a link to post, but I read about this on LWN (like a month or so ago) that they were already running (mostly) Linux in the back-end of the shop. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
It's also running the new version of Slashcode.
A tech industry on its knees.
Investors wiping dot-com bubble remains from their faces.
Linux IPOs failing, bankruptcies in the offing.
"The NYSE moves to Linux."
The irony is palpable.
"Stock trades are one of the most sensitive, secure and important kinds of transactions that exist,? said John Patrick, vice president of Internet technology at IBM. ?This deal has removed any doubt that Linux is ready for the mainstream and that it can play a major role in electronic businesses of all kinds and sizes."
This is not something I was expecting. Wonderful news! Linux can no longer be dismissed as a 'hacker' or 'hobby' operating system. It's industrial-strength!
LUSER: "You use Linux? I read in Micosoft Press Release Daily that it's not a real operating system, it's not reliable
ME: "Yeah, well, IBM and the NYSE doesn't think so. You're fund manager trades your stocks over a linux-based network."
Where does MS go from there?
Software Wars
It pains me to say this but it probably won't matter much what OS is underneath the trading software (except for performance gains etc...) because I doubt the traders ever see the OS at all. It's great PR for linux, but like all PR wins it will probably be short lived. I wouldn't expect traders to wake up each day and say to themselves "Self, I'm using Linux at work. That's neat." It just won't happen...
As for the distribution that would be used, I doubt that matters much either...
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Will Linux be Wall Street's next killer app?
Isn't it the other way around?
Once again, life is more interesting than fiction.
Who would think that a product of collective artruism - Linux - will ever becomes something that oils the machine of Capitalism ?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
WAY too many financial institutions use M$ languages and OS's for their internal users... like customer support and other operations centers. VB applications abound...
I've found that the best way to get companies to move away from M$ programming languages is to suggest the portability and standardization and other benefits that occur when you start making your apps available through a web interface. Then, as the developer on that project, keep everything as cross-platform, cross-browser as possible. Once the frontend/interface doesn't require a M$ language to support it, there becomes less of a reason to stay on the architecture.
In addition, this approach is becoming much more successful since EVERYONE is trying to cut costs... and what's a better way to cut costs then eliminate the need for costly M$ licenses?
it allows a company like redhat to answer questions like "is linux able to handle a large amount of secure transactions?" with, "well you know the NYSE uses it"
it's good for bragging rights
Photos.
We do lots of stuff for DMSO. Not evil, or particularly secret, but it is fun. Getting data that's been saved in a zillion formats over the years converted to XML and stored in oracle dbs and allowing web access to that same data. We're so buzzword compliant it's painful.
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Proof that the moderation system doesn't work:
WOW (Score:2, Insightful)
m00.
that was NASDAQ [that switched to NT]
that would explain the stock pobs we've been having
Photos.
I used to work at a small mutual fund company where the network admin got to deal with SIAC for a project. It seemed as if they were a big mainframe shop and the network admin ended up creating a translation dictionary between industry terms and SIAC terms. Let's say (not accurate for obvious NDA reasons), they would say something like street and ths would mean to us ethernet cable.
It was fun working with them. Once we had that translation dictionary sorted out we fully understood what they were telling us.
But more to my main point, is that I'm happy to hear they're going to use Linux, but most financial institutions would run linux anyway. Mainly due to admins with tiny budgets. Like I was given 6 grand to put up a development database server. No way I could afford licenses of Sybase for a Sun box that would cost me that much (even though I would have preferred Solaris), I wound up getting a dual processor VA Linux Systems box and then downloaded Sybase Adaptive Server for Linux (license is free for development use). So I got a pretty nice performance development database box and didn't go over budget.
Needless to say when I left working at the mutual fund company they had more linux systems than HP 9000's or Sun Ultra Enterprise's put together. Granted I met with a ton of resistance to put the first linux box into place, but then management got used to being able to do stuff on the cheap, so more low budget projects kept creeping up, which meant more linux boxes to do the work.
"If you insist on using Windoze you're on your own."
Let's just hope the headline doesn't read Linux kills Wall Street.
As if the market wasn't bad enough already.
so you won't need to worry about that, just l337s hacking into it and deleting all records of stock ownership.
Photos.
It's going to be interesting to see if IBM can get Linux to work on the computers that run the New York Stock Exchange.
This by the far the ultimate test of Linux itself in a commercial environment, given that NYSE share volumes run into the billions of shares traded per day. I wonder will the 2.4.x kernel be ready to handle this massive load, one that used to be handled by proprietary UNIX variants and IBM's MV/MVS.
PHB: "We need a Linux programmer, want the job?"
Hacker:"Linux coding? Excellent! What'll I be doin?"
PHB: "Maintaining this 30 year old, undocumented, COBOL code"
Hacker: "AIEEEEE!!!"
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I remember 15 years ago, while still working with a Wall Street firm. I was visiting a programming friend at another shop, who amazed me with some wild stuff he was doing on a Sun. I asked him, did he think that the industry (we didn't use hip terms like "the street") would shed the IBMs mains and VAXen minis for a Unix-based platform. He turned to the screen and ran features on his creation that we only dreamed of on these other systems. Alarms, alerts, graphics, etc ... stuff that even PDAs can do now.
Now, well away from Wall Street, and away from the buzz, I wonder how many back rooms are filled with geek projects running on Linux, the same way they were being hacked out on Suns 15 years ago ? If it is what I suspect it might be, then Mr.Gates has a problem that can't be factored with FUD.
As I recall, it was financial apps like VisCalc and Lotus 1-2-3 that greatly aided the PC revolution. Likewise, as business men and women endured dragging sowing machine size luggables around airports, the portable industry grew.
Could it be that an operating system, such as Linux, and all that it offers in frugality and flexibility, is indeed the killer app ? If so,
how ironic that it appears that big-business may be aiding of all things, the Open Source movement.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
The bad part of this is that it took MSFT 20+ years to get where they are; it will probably take another 20+ years for them to be relegated to insignificance (in terms of their influence on the market).
However, it's announcements like this which show that major institutions are now beginning to see past the FUD of 'not proven', 'no support', 'not scalable' and 'not stable'. Of course, there will still be myriads of clueless CIOs who believe the FUD, but it's data points like this one which will play a role in converting even this crowd. After all, (we all know) Linux is stable and you can't really beat the price. It's funny/ironic though that by time Linux became viable, MSFT for the first time in 20+ years actually got their act together and produced a reasonably stable system (Win2K). If guess competition is good for something after all
does running the stock exchange data equal world domination?
it's a happy day for the penguins!!
desktops/pda's...here we come.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Linux isn't making any inroads at small/medium sized companies. I work at a company that develops Lotus Notes apps and expanding into M$ territory and keeping an eye on Linux for the future. Most of our clients don't even know what Linux is...Sure, IBM is pushing Linux, but most small companies can't afford a Linux/Websphere solution.
bad marketing perhaps?
The exchange needs systems that won't ever be down during the trading day. Not to disparage Linux: it's the hardware that's at issue. NYSE needs systems that you can pull a disk controller or system board out of and not interrupt services. Even if said board is on fire, the system can't go down.
They dont pratice what they preach. What ever happened to Slash for windows??
I came from a job in industrial automation. Wrote custom device drivers for 82c55 chipsets, ADC/DAC cards, things like that. Now I'm doing (takes deep breath) [buzzword compliance alert] custom b2b and b2c XML enabled web applications with oracle databases and portal servers for government and private industry contracts using C++, Perl, and Python on multiple platforms. [end buzzword compliance] So I've gone from twiddling bits and machine code programming to doing XML and database applications.
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Remember, the stock market crash just took a big bite out of these folks' bottom lines. Management still wants to see an increase in profits. Two years ago their problem was keeping up with new growth; today, the name of the game is cutting costs.
They will be using Linux as the platform for the messaging and information systems between the Exchange and the brokers/dealers, not the actual Exchange itself. I'm not saying these systems are not mission critical, I'm just reading the article!
Running the actual Exchange would be a major coop, but I don't think there is any chance of seeing that happen for a few years yet.
Note: I'm not saying Linux can't be used to run the Exchange, but I think this is best handled by a full-blown enterprise platform at this point in the development of Linux.
Go back about 25 years and you would find shareware and even full commercial vendors selling the equivalent of MS Notepad. An application that today everyone takes for granted and virtually nobody would pay for. The customers expectation simply evolved and now there's no going back.
Looking over this article we see that IBM is making money off what is refered to as "middleware" (and probably support) not the sale of the operating system. Which is pretty much the standard OSS-capitalist mantra. Nothing new there.
However taking the way that Linux (and other free OS's) are making money and throw in that most consumer OS sales for MS are pre-installed (which may be percieved as "free"). Perhaps we're looking at yet another evolution of customer expectations.
Is the OS becomming the Notepad of today?
Now this certianly isn't an airtight theory but it does have some interesting correlations. For example think of two ways that software producers responded to the evolution of customer expectations. They created two very distinct markets. One being those who product a similar product to Notepad but with some extra (or simply different or specialized features) which they either give away or sell for a small fee and what I'm going to call the "value added" approach. Where the vendor continued to add features in hopes that the customer would continue to pay for them.
Think about OS's now. Some, free software OS's parallel the current generation of "notepad" vendors in that they produce a piece of software that although is quite powerful it doesn't (on it's own) have all the features of the "value-added" competitors. Certianly you can package the Linux kernel, with GNU software and XFree86 and some custom install scripts and get a great product (perhaps even creating in the process a third variety of software vendor!).
Now look at Windows where each generation has some bell or whistle (from the user perspective) added over the bell or whistle of the last release. They really have no choice if Win2K was simply Win98 rewritten from the ground up. Why would anyone buy it? (rewritten software doesn't nececarily imply better software). So to the consumer a new version of windows is sold on features: 95 had a better UI than 3.1 (among other things). 98 had "internet integration", 98SE had "Internet Sharing". (This is by no means an exhaustive list here BTW)
So where does this leave us?
Perhaps the end result is that the Market is pushed forward but maybe not in a healthy way.
While the VA market is pushed forward toward more and more features the OSS vendors are continually taking the value away from some of those features by providing them for free.
Perhaps OS's like Linux contribute to the bloatware cycle for MS? Just a thought.
As the black mantle of communism spreads over the Internet under the guise of Free Software, the left-wing radicals of IBM place an Unamerican operating system in the middle of the cradle of capitalism!
This will surely begin the Armageddon, as the viral nature of the GPL infects every single transaction made in the stock market, "redistributing" the profits and replacing our ticker reports with communist propaganda.
Soon the booming Digital Economy will be trampled upon by the atheist masses directed by Comrade Stallman; it is inevitable now that the stock market will be consumed by the Satanic Pac-Man that is the combination of Linux and the GPL!
Good bye American Way of Life! Good bye Freedom!
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
that fat penquin makes my dick so hard. it reminds me of the time i went to sea world and got kicked out cause i started jacking off in the penquin encounter ride. the parents were real upset, i tried to explain that penquins are my one true love and theres nothing wrong with that. i accidentially cummed on this little boy though and his parents are suing me cause they think im a pedophile. its not my fault the stupid brat got in my way, i wanted to jizz on the plexiglass so the penquines could see how much i love them.
I think the icon showing Tux with a briefcase would be the one to use here - if there ever was a time to use it!
Linux seems mired in two markets: High-end, heavy-metal processing, and the geek crowd. It doesn't show up in the middle very much.
Where is Linux in vertical business markets? Where are the integrators? Where is the market for business-oriented components? If such markets exist for Linux, they aren't very prominent.
Let's put it another way: Look on Freshmeat for "point of sale" and "MP3 player". Guess which one has four hits, and which one has more than a hundred? Guess which type of software is more relevant to business?
Linux scales small (older PCs, personal workstations) or large (Beowulf clusters, High-Performance Computing), but it seems to be missing something in the middle ground where most business resides.
That fact makes it very difficult to convince business-oriented companies to support Linux. Beyond the fact that Linux users believe everything should be "free" as in beer, there isn't sufficient support for vertical market development. Integrators build software from components, usually with VB or Delphi under Windows. Where is the component market for Linux? For that matter, where is a common, well-supported, universal component architecture for the penguin? Heck, I still haven't found a Linux installation system that is friendly to non-geeks.
The question is: Does Linux want to cater to the middle ground, to business and "normal" folk? Or should Linux stay where it is strong, leaving the middle to Mr. Gates and his minions?
All about me
How dare you spout such blasphemy. So what if it is realistic and the facts. Around here, it's blasphemy. You heretic.
Just an errant thought as I read the article. Could it be the old giant, IBM has shown us some of the blue-fu that has kept this company around near or on the top for so many years ? For example:
... selling services. Let's face it, there's not much in the way of COTS that Microsoft can FUD with when it comes to Wall Streeters, and their propensity to roll and re-roll their own apps.
Bird 1 - undercutting Sun high-end
"SIAC's Artmail applications previously ran on Sun Microsystems Inc. servers that used Unix. But they will now run on IBM Linux servers linked to an IBM mainframe system."
IBM's girthieness has been a liability in the past. Not so much for the hardware itself; though expensive. Rather, much of the rub has been on the expense and limitations of its operating system, as anyone using MVS will attest. Linux literally flips that around against it's competitors, forcing companies such as Sun's high-end to compete chip-to-chip with IBM's mid to low end iron.
Stone 2 - Microsoft's cost of Open Source argument
"Though basic Linux software is free, IBM makes money by selling the middleware that links Linux with existing software and computer systems at places like SIAC. It also makes money by selling Linux servers and services for Linux-based systems."
Here IBM parlays one of its biggest, and most enduring strengths
Kudos to someone where at Itty Bitty Machines for figuring this one out.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
You had to read pretty far down to find out that this is also a "Linux Replaces Sun" story.
One of the primary adopters of NeXT, back when it was still being seen as a possible desktop contender, were financial service professionals in New York. These people rely on security, and were/are willing to spend whatever money it takes to develop programs to analyze the incredible amounts of data they use in their decision making process. They regularly commission custom programming based on whatever algorithm they think best models the economy this month. The reason this could have more impact now than it did 12 years ago with NeXT is that not all of the action is in New York any more. Seeding Linux in this industry in the Big Apple now has the possibility of trickling down to the local Financial Consultant in rural Idaho who's just looking for a turn-key system that will let him in on the action. New York players will understand the value of the security and software development tools and will be willing to fund the programming. Middle America players will then buy in to the reputation and appreciate the price.
This is way off topic, but the title is rendered as:
Will Linux be Wall Street?s next killer app?
And the comment as:
Isn't it the other way around?
How come sometimes apostophes are rendered as question marks? How can I fix it? Can I? (Running Netscape if it matters).
Poor SOB
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
Not fun, but I have done the pizza bit at several joints, and waited tables at a number of others... I am a glutton for punishment
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
Sorry, search is down for the moment.
Does this speak to the robustness of Linux, MySQL or CmdrTaco?
Right now, I'm wacthing the market like a hawk. I'd hate to try to pull up my portfolio and see:
Sorry, search is down for the moment.
The fact that you use that as your sig makes you a pretentious twit.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
but not on the desktop. In any event, I think you're overstating the case. Let's face it, if IBM threw its' weight behind an abacus and said it could solve the NYSE's problems, they would probably get the contract. The key here is having IBM as an advocate. As important to the Linux crowd as this is, it seems to me that it is only incidental to IBM. They certainly could have used any of their own operating systems for this work. I'm sure what matters more to IBM is that they get to poke MS with this stick. All the better for us that it has linux written on it....:)
To those of you who say - 'Big deal, they still use Windows on teh desktop' Heh - Desktop OS sales do not have huge profit margins - OEMs & large companies get huge discounts. Microsoft needs to rule the backend because server software margins are much higher. SO this IS a hit to them. A potential conversion from *nix to MS hurts them. Sure, in this case one Unix replaces another, but MS still loses a potential slient for lots and lots of server licenses.
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THe OS is not a competitive edge here; it's Tivoli and the custome software. IBM is much better off giving up its maintenance and development costs--and htis holds even if AIX is moderately superior to Linux for the task at hand.
hawk, economist
Interesting how the popular media (or the popular business media, or maybe just this magazine) still can't bring itself to say that Linux is developed by a horde of developers, only loosely organized and working under a model that doesn't quite fit the capitalist picture.
They always have to have some identifiable person or company to point to. Just another version of "who do you sue?".
John.
I'm not sure how representative a shop running Notes is. Anyways, I tend to agree with you. What would a small business (fewer than 50 employees or so) use linux for? Maybe an internal web or database server but that's about it. Not like any of the MS stuff will run on a linux server. For Calendaring, Act!, authentication, printing, file sharing and other stuff, it's all NT/2000.
The hard part of that plan is keeping the project cross-platform and cross-browser. You'll run headlong into weenies that want to write for IE only. And in a perverse way, they have a point-- certainly is easier to write for only one browser. Not that I agree, of course. What would be interesting, though, is to try to document how different things break depending on which version of IE you're running. Then the argument can be made that if you're already going to have to write your web interface to work on all these versions of IE, you might as well make it fully cross-browser while you're at it.
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
apt-get remove recession
I liked the comment from the software developers. "Graham says SIAC converted to Linux quickly because of the software's open, flexible nature. "We were able to port our Artmail application in about two-and-a-half days," Graham said." This is the best argument against the MS FUD campaign I have heard in a long time. I hope a lot of business people take notice.
"Open source stifles innovation" my ass!
That's one heck of an endorsement!
How come IBM hasn't been buying full page ads announcing that?
Are martial arts a defense, or a method of fighting?
Well.. all I can say about this is that we think that financial people are idiots... that is until they adopt our software, and then they're smart, savy business people.
I think they're still idiots, but they've made a lucky choice or a good choice through council.
Hey.. these are the same guys that judge the entire Internet based on Pets.com and Webvan.com...
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
I just worked with an 8-site corporate chain store to move their financial records from Windows 9x to Star Office and Linux.
Seems that daily, each store must prepare a financial summary for the day and send it into the corporate office. They'd just bought a Linux-based Point-Of-Sale system to handle their front end; they wanted to get rid of the old, crash-prone windows systems and use the Linux systems to do this as well.
Star Office is a program we should all admire - files run seamlessly on Windows and Linux, and with its feature set, it's on-par to compete with MS-Office very nicely.
So, the NYSE is migrating some *nix systems to Linux?
Just something else to mention when you start the pitch...
-Ben
that's just one less thing in the world that can crash the stock exchange >:)
So if you ever knew someone who needed a security clearance your name is going to be included in some government database 4ever, with everything you ever did listed in it?
Hang on while I break all my contacts with ppl in the military and at defence contractors. Don't want their bosses to find out that I have an interest in ornithology, the gubbment probably will think that I use my nightvision goggles to spy on military installations for the North Koreans / Chinese / Russians / Spectre (delete bogeyman where applicants) instead of watching birds asleep in their nests at night.
That might explain the 25% drop of PSI-20 since January :-)
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
So now, instead of occasional 4 hour outage when someone screws up software upgrades, we get weekly crashes when some shmuck decides to upgrade to the latest "stable" kernel? Woo hoo! Go Linux!
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." - George Bush
IMO, the existence of competing free software can only push software vendors to improve their products (not only adding features, but also with better quality). :).
If Win2000 crashes less than NT, it is also because Linux demonstrated that BSODs are not an inevitable fact of life (now there are also kernel panics: variety is good
Ciao
----
FB
It's not a matter of "big iron" and "geek desktops". It's about servers. The reason you don't see point-of-sale systems on Linux is that Linux--like any Unix--is still a relatively awkward choice for standalone and small-network desktop use. It's easy enough to get running for one-off engineering workstations and for hundreds or thousands of X terminals, but the cost savings and overall benefits of a Unix just aren't there for those 5-100 seat mixed-use installations found in most desktop environments.
.5TB range can run on Linux now. And that's a lot of databases.
.NET) or with Java. And since that Java code really does move--unmodified--from Windows developer workstations to staging servers and production boxes that can be running any of a good dozen OSes on hardware going all the way up to mainframes, with application servers that are increasingly interoperable and interchangeable, Java's looking pretty good.
Want a stable, non-windowed PC-based cash register? Linux gives you nothing you can't get with DOS, Netware or OS/2-based systems. There's little reason for vendors to port, and the application is so narrow that Linux offers nothing but a savings on OS licenses, which are insignificant to the cost of a 5-station point-of-sale system.
Running a small- to mid-sized office? Linux is a decent way to save on servers, and many companies do so, buying mail and file-sharing appliances like Cobalt Qubes, or IBM's Small Business Server software bundle, which gives small but ambitious companies a nicely priced bundle of DB2, Domino and Websphere. Still others bring on the accountant's nephew to set up a Samba server or two. But on the desktop? Unix and Linux office suites are mediocre at best, the best being slower and more memory-hungry than MS Office. And you can be the one to tell the senior managers how good Linux is the tenth time they can't properly open an MS Office file that was mailed to them.
Where Linux is taking over the world is on servers, and now it's not just the usual HTTP, Samba, DNS and SMTP services. In the past year, with good 1.3.x JVMs from Sun and IBM, Linux is now on par with any other platform, dollar for dollar, for running J2EE application servers.
If you're running clusters of Weblogic, Websphere or other EJB/servlet/JSP engines (Tomcat, JRun, EJBoss, etc.), there's simply no longer any technical reason to do it on Solaris, HPUX, Win2K or AIX. If you have a decent JVM (as Linux has) and decent networking and memory management (as Linux has, especially with 2.4), that's all that really matters. Why pay $700, $3000 or more on OS licenses and OS support per machine for something that you just want to (1) stay up and (2) run a Java app server or one or more of its support systems like a message queue?
Moreover, the move to journaling filesystems and better support for external storage, and the availability of many mainstream commercial-grade backup and system management tools means Linux is also a perfectly good way to run all those 1-4 CPU database servers. Oracle and DB2 on Linux aren't going to eat into the Sun E10000's turf or IBM's OS/400 and System/390 spaces just yet, but all those databases running on 1U-5U rack equipment with storage in the
Add to that the fact that Linux has become (officially or not) the reference platform for a lot of Unix software, and the reference x86 Unix for many others (see Sybase) and Linux looks poised to eat not just the low end but also the middle of the server market.
The success of server-side Java has a lot to do with this. Right now, the overwhelming share of new server-side development is being done either with the MS platform (ASP, MTS, COM and the early bits of
Sure Linux is seriously eating into proprietary Unix market share, but think about it a little more carefully. These guys are looking for something that's cheaper and easier to deploy than the Sun boxes they're currently using. Without Linux, the only choices are 1)eat the costs and stick with Unix, 2)port to Windows (also at considerable expense).
The breadth of offerings available for Linux (cheap 1U boxes, Mainframe LPARS, massive servers) make it a natural choice for people who might otherwise leave the Unix world altogether. It's easy to port from Unix to Linux, and you can run your app. on any hardware imaginable.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
This has got to mean no more market "crashes", right?
:)
Oh yeah. That was bad.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Don't think for a second that MS execs' stomachs are not turning over about this deal.
This is a key financial services application, and opens the door for acceptance of linux in key financial markets. Microsoft was going to undersell and overmarket traditional UNIX vendors and eat into the server market. Once their foot was in the door, extend and embrace.
Guess what - the markets grow from the bottom. It happened with DOS against MacOS. It happened with Windows95 against OS/2. It happened with NT against Unix. And now it is happening with linux against Windows.
This could have been a HUGE win for Microsoft. Instead, it is another notch in IBM's belt, and a huge boost for linux in the perception of CTOs. Microsoft can't buy that kind of publicity.
MS in turn uses Nasdaq (and Dell, and several other captive "friends") as examples of "large enterprises that chose Windows as their strategic OS". It makes you almost feel sorry for Nasdaq. Well... for their sysadmins, anyway.
I am with SAIC, in McLean, and I just happen to be working on a DISA contract. Oh joy! :(
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
Star office is the most buggy piece of crap I've seen run in linux. "Files" may run seemlessly, but the program sure the hell doesn't.
No cookie for j00.
this is my sig, there are many like it, but this one is mine.
I think you guys need to read this again. NYSE does not run on Linux. A messaging system that connects to NYSE and advises external parties of trades runs on Linux. Apparently the core systems are still running... whatever it is they used to run.
Still a big deal for Linux, but you can't really say NYSE runs on Linux. You could say that PART of NYSE runs on Linux.
WebGuyCS
from the article:
[...previously ran on Sun Microsystems Inc. (SUNW) servers that used Unix. But they will now run on IBM Linux servers...]
This is probably a troll, but...
This could be a very scary thing for Linux - arguably, the economy of the entire world will be riding on Linux. Should something go wrong, Linux just made a whole lot more enemies. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that IBM is putting Linux in play to finally make its Big Failure. When (if) Linux fails, IBM is already in the door with SIAC, so they can offer a competitive upgrade to AIX. IBM saves the day, Linux takes the dive, and the UN, along with Microsoft, launch a campaign against Linux - declaring Marshall law and forcibly replacing every remaining Linux installation with Windows XP.
main(){char I,l,O[]={'-',1-1,0,(1<<5)-1,0+'-',-10-1,-10,11-0,
And the two minute delay is A LITTLE FUCKING EXCESSIVE!!! I mean, come on, never thought people might have more that 30 things to say in an hour?
Sun's gotta love it in the long run. I never had trouble talking to Sun boxes with Linux. Using MS junk was a nightmare. Credibility there brings the Linux desktop that much closer to me here.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Look, the Microsoft stock prices are dropping to 0. Oh well, must be a bug in the system. INSERT EVIL LAUGH HERE
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
From what you've seen, is Sybase or Oracle more frequenly used in the financial community? Have your clients expressed any reasons for their preferences (if there is a bias one way or the other)?
we've done this many times... and actually, the work we ended up doing had to be specified between IE 5 and IE 5.5 because those two browsers supported it differently...
There are certain things that make writing for IE in a browser make sense... like iFrames. Until you figure out that you'd really like to do one, you can't think of how they'd be useful. but they are. But for most things, it's fairly easy to keep to standards for cross browser/platform. And that's the easy way to encourage a transition... hence why M$ is trying to take over the internet now that they have the desktop.
my prediction: if you want to make money in computers in the coming years, learn and use linux in all your applications. (but you knew that, i bet)
They can try! Just look at Hotmail. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I think they only are using Compaq, IBM and MS nowadays.
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------
I like Linux.
It looks like most of the brokerages are going to move and replace Solaris with linux in the next 12 months. GS, ML, PW, MSDW are all moving, from what I hear....
You said:
Bird 1 - undercutting Sun high-end
Stone 2 - Microsoft's cost of Open Source argument
No Comment.
For anyone who wasn't fortunate enough to attend the annual Usenix Technichal Conference for 2001, the keynote address was (brilliantly) delivered by Daniel D. Frye, Director of the IBM Linux Technology Center. In the talk, and the following Q&A, he made it explicitly clear that IBM's position on Linux was that it would be ready for the 24/7 no-downtime, mission-critical environment (like the financial sector), soon, but that it wasn't yet. The indication was something like 5 years or so, and the conference was 2 months ago.
I wonder what changed IBM's position so quickly?
He either comes off as a real interesting guy with encyclopedic knowledge,or a pathological liar with an ax to grind
The truth is that Linux is the best operating system. That's pretty darned good.
jerking off while browsing at -1... mmm mmm mmm...
how true. Doesn't that NYSE commercial on CNN use a song from Rage against the Machine? Only in the 21st century. . .
I have been trying to post articles on Slashdot for a month now, but they are insistant on publishing other articles. I just posted an article on Quantum Computing. I think you will all enjoy it quite a bit. For those of you who do not know what Quantum computing is, the article explains it quite well. Here is the link . You can post comments on the article below it. Please tell me what you think.
Nothing in the article suggests this is changing now, but in the long term? Does this mean Compaq is gradually losing the main NYSE account? Damn! At least Compaq got the whole Sabre account as compensation...
(this is not a
You sound like someone who was stupid enough to buy it at $300+ and now have a handful of $1.64 toilet paper, and are angry about it.
Dumbass.
Unfortunately, this announcement didn't do nearly as much for the market as the announcement of the August Consumer Confidence report, which has caused both the NYSE and the Nasdaq to slump. See the Yahoo! Finance daily summary and a report on the Consumer Confidence report for more info . . .
"This will determine once and for all the greatest nation in the world, Mexico or.....Portugal"
It goes something like that.
This definitely changes things. No one with a three-digit IQ would ever claim that Solaris, for example, is not robust enough for commercial work. Even Microsoft, in all of its arrogance, has not said that (though they have tried to proclaim that NT was superior). But there have been many naysayers when it comes to Linux as a viable option for commercial deployment.
If this is successful, it will show that Microsoft's portrayal of Linux as a toy for geeks was both unfounded and unfair. If the NYSE relies on Linux, the pro-Microsoft factions in corporate IS departments will be unable to make convincing arguments that Linux poses a threat to network security or stability. It will show beyond any reasonable doubt that Linux scales, implements robust security, and can be deployed and maintained in a demanding environment.
Eventually, digital exchanges like Nasdaq and ISE will replace the open-outcry trading floors completely. This has already happened at the rest of the world's exchanges. To take on the task of running an exchange, the computer system must have great messaging throughput and great reliability. Windows NT in its various incarnations has not proven itself to be up to this task. Solaris and HP-UX are up to it. IBM and many other believe that Linux is also up it, and IBM is going to prove it.
One post's subject was "only one battle". This is true, but every war has a decisive battle that turns the tide in the favor of the victors. This deal could decide for years to come the OS to use for financial transaction servers. IBM is wisely positioning themselves to profit greatly if this happens by providing support and middleware. The importance of support and middleware for this kind of application cannot be overstated. A brilliant maneuver that beats Microsoft at their own game.
Electronic trading workstations are another story. Web browsers and Java simply do not have the power needed to make those platform independent. Almost all electronic trading software and other useful tools (like Excel) run on Windows. These workstations will be in Microsoft's hands until some group mounts a serious effort to supplant that software with superior Linux-based replacements.
I have much more to say on this matter, but I've probably bored you enough. Too bad I can't get a "+1:Long-winded" mod.
I am in 5139 (ETS), and you? I am installing linux on a machine so I am taking breaks between builds with slashdot... actually I need to crack open some books now.
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
Oh no, does that mean that every company which trades on NYSE is going to have to release its source now?
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Take it outside mister +2 karma abuser.
Another success story for Hooked On Phonics (emphasis mine).
Edith Keeler Must Die
Well then, you'd better stop now before it's too late. If you don't stop watching TV immediately, you will become another touchy-feely, politically corect, tree-hugging do-gooder, and you don't want that, do you? :)
From the article:
[quote]
Patrick says a strong point of Linux software is that data on a stock transaction is relayed from one party to another without interference
[/quote]
Please tell me, what's so unique about Linux software that NO OTHER software is able to do this? And what has this to do with 'linux' especially? If DB2 does the transaction processing controlled by f.e. tuxedo, what does that have to do with Linux? Nothing, you can run these systems on any OS supported by these applications.
From the article:
[quote]
"The (Linux system) offers users the ability to crawl onto the reliability and shared resources of the IBM mainframe," Graham.
[/quote]
So, what is this mainframe doing here? The whole setup isn't running TOTALLY on Linux, it still needs a phat Mainframe to run, hell, to work efficiently. So tell me, where is the big shift to Linux in this picture?
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
http://www.microsoft.com/SQL/evaluation/overview/2 000/fastfacts.asp
Read it and weep.
Just because some Linux biggot got an app in the NYSE to run on Linux doesn't mean much.
errr, I don't know Java, but am about to start. Isn't JTA the API for calls and such?
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
you're missing one minor point here. tivoli is owned by ibm. they aren't losing anything as far as maintanance/development, it's simply a shift in focus.
Now maybe everyone can shut up about whether Linux is "enterprise-ready." I don't think you get much more Enterprise-class than this. Not only is it a massive volume of data, but it's highly sensative data. In the case of the NYSE, much of our economy is based around the day-to-day functioning of these systems.
Security here, thank you. We now have enough information to identify you and revoke your security clearance. Please surrender your belongings to the gentlemen in black suits who will strip-search you on the way out...
"Yowza!"
"Follow the yellow brick road, oh my!"
"Oh I'll get you my pretties!"
"I get no respect, no respect at all!"
"And that's our daily double!"
"Is that your final answer?"
"...definitely 640k..."
"::Slashdot's new pundit addition::"
"Hi there. Eat shit."
ya, I don't like croisants with eggs. I only use croisants in ham and cheese sandwhichs. They don't have a good refrigerated vending machine though. The food gets too moist sometimes, and other days it gets dry. It's better just to order out. When are you goin'?
help me keep this thread going plz ppl. Kuro5hin is blatently homosexual!
You make a good point, but people have been talking about the commoditization of the operating system for years. Microsoft knows it, that's why they're so interested in monopoly on web services -- they know that inertia is the only thing keeping their OS monopoly going.
BTW, when you say "correlations", I think you mean "corollaries".
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
Most mainstream PC-based point-of-sale systems are console applications or, if they're graphical at all, they run in a VGA framebuffer mode. The server OS might be NT, Novell or OS/2, purchased at an OEM price of under $600. Sometimes a whole lot less than $600.
The point of sale terminals themselves often aren't running Win9x or any version of Windows, for that matter, though of course some do. A mouse is seldom involved. Indeed, there usually isn't any pointing device. Just a keyboard (or just a POS keypad), maybe a barcode scanner, a touchscreen or a signature capture pad, and a cash drawer.
Yes, the application could be made cheaper. The vendor could eliminate $200-$600 in server OS costs, and anywhere from $20-$120 per terminal in client OS costs.
The POS system itself probably sells to the customer for, say, $30,000, including hardware, software, installation and setup, integration with your accounting system (which isn't running on Linux, I'd wager), and a 3-5 year support contract.
The vendor's hardware costs might be $1500 for the server box, $700 for each PC, and something like $800 for each PC's POS hardware peripherals. So let's say the hardware for the whole 5-station system costs them $9000. Those OS licenses might be adding a thousand dollars to each 5-station system going out the door. And though your POS terminals can be Pentiums since they're not doing much processing, theyaren't Pentiums because you can't buy new Pentiums. You buy hardware that your company will be comfortable supporting for 5 years or more, and that means hardware consistency is a major goal. You might buy PCs a thousand or more at a time, and servers a hundred or more at a time in order to ensure a 6-month (or longer) supply of identical hardware with identical drives, controllers, video cards, motherboard layouts, NICs and BIOS revs. Mix and match is foolish if you're in a business making a lot of its money from fixed-price support contracts.
So your assignment is to tell me how many of these typical 5-station POS packages a vendor has to sell with Linux at a savings of (and I'm being generous here) $1000 each in order to justify the money spent porting the application, testing it, and hiring and training a second team of customer support and professional services people to support this second version of software that wasn't broken in the first place.
Now you're porting the software. The current vision was written in, say, VB or maybe C or maybe even some kind of Pascal, or, even more likely, some Foxbase-family language, and calls to a smallish relational database engine whose main strength is that it runs for weeks or months at a time without any maintenenace beyond swapping backup tapes. It's old code in an old version of an old language, and it's tied to one (probably old) database engine. Porting isn't going to be a simple matter of recompiling and changing an ODBC DSN. It's going to be work. Work that will result in a more modern, portable application, but work nonetheless. Still want to do it? Great. Now put the porting team together.
Remember: hiring a junior-level programmer you're paying $45,000/year to is costing your company $60,000 once you pay them benefits, train them and give them a desk and a PC. And one programmer isn't going to be able to do the port, write the new manuals, do the QA, revamp the customer training course, and provide tech support. There are a few bodies involved.
Linux will find its way into point-of-sale systems, just as it's found its way into shop-floor terminals in factories and warehouses. But it will only get there in the context of new products, or as a result of clean-slate rewrites of applications when an old version can no longer be extended and upgraded effectively. And those aren't done on a whim.
I've been lobbying for 5 years for various market info vendors to port their applications to Linux, and the response is a uniform "Huh?"
This is really great news for Street IT.
For desktops, the hardest nut to crack will be the stranglehold of .doc and .xls file formats.
But Slashdotters knew that already.
There you go kiddes, that one was clearly written by someone whose native language is NOT English.
Yet I find only 2 typoes and one (bigword) misspelling in what must be at least 150 words.
His grammar works better than most American kiddes', as well.
LEARN TO SPELL, or at least get a spellchecker, before you humiliate yourself in a public forum!
Fix this sentence (Spelled phonetically): "Thaar going over thaar to thaar car".
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
Linux is fine for point-of-sale systems. It just isn't used for many at this point, and OS dogma isn't a good reason for existing vendors to rush into it when they have products that work already.
As for Apache, MySQL and Perl/PHP/Python as the basis of such a system.. well.. I'm sure there's worse out there, but I don't think too many stores would want to use a web browser as their cash-register interface. You do intend to use a browser, right? Web browsers are bad tools for quick, reliable data entry. Too much scrolling and mouse movement.
Also, you'd have to write browser plugins to control and access things like a cash drawer, a signature tablet and a UPC scanner. Again, not out of the question, but sort of unneccessary.
And as far as the backend goes, why MySQL? Postgres is much more robust and provides an environment more in line with what you get in a commercial database. Once your data model starts to get complicated and you're doing a lot of inserts and updates, it's going to look like a better choice.
Python is a very nice language, though once you're putting it behind an HTTP server, you may consider Zope in place of Apache. PHP? Seems kind of limiting. Perl's not going to make for the most maintainable codebase. But language isn't really the issue. Architecture is. And maybe maintainability too.
An HTTP backend might be okay, though the fact that it's stateless and doesn't offer a satisfactoy way to push out alerts from the central server is a drawback. This is, after all, a network of cash registers you're building here, not a public website.
If it's still going to be HTTP, and the push-pull issue can be resolved elegantly, I'd just use HTTP as a transport layer and instead of a browser and write the frontend as a custom ncurses application (console mode!) with access to the esoteric hardware, and client-server communication via SOAP. And quite likely instead of HTTP, I'd consider something more persistent and two-way for the SOAP transport...though tiny HTTP listeners on the clients wouldn't be out of the question.
The language and "app server" engine? Those are the least important choices. Any combination that is easy to deploy, is reliable, and is easy to maintain and extend will do. Java on Tomcat/EJBoss? Python on Apache or Zope? Standalone Perl with SOAP::Lite? Whatever.
You nailed it. There is no value in OS's for IBM or Microsoft. IBM gives away the OS then sells the middleware (WebSphere). MS builds the middleware into the OS the sells the bundle (COM+). The debate OSs is like debating Notepad vs. VI - who cares? The real battle is upstream in the sophistated middleware apps running on top of the OS.
Yes, Eurex uses OpenVMS at the host and middle layers whilst NT and Solaris are relegated to the members sites.
The reasoning is that VMS is very good at message handling and it very rarely falls over.
i generally grab something every morning either from the aramark folks downstairs or the little asian woman and her store across the way. breakfast. then i usually skip lunch.
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
nyse: stock trading system just went down
sec: what !!!!
nyse: no signal
sec: reboot
nyse: device not found
sec: install patch
nyse: error on ppp0
sec: no use
that was not me, look up 86026 in issaic.
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
?? Where have you seen IBM on the post?
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------