i'll sound like a friggin broken record, but this problem isn't the job of the federal government, or the state government for that matter.
your newspaper readers will soon complain that it's annoying to read the news paper b/c they can't find the news mixed in with all the advertising. all the while the newspapers are raking in huge amounts of cash.
telemarketing doesn't directly provide you with cheeper phone service, nor should it. it does provide you with cheeper credit cards and whatever is currently being telemarketed. those products costs are factored in the cost of the marketing of the material the same as the products that are being marketed on the television.
my point was that there is no responsibility or authority of the federal governemt to prohibit unsolicited communication outside of what the constitution allows. and if the federal governement prohibits any unsolicited communication, then it must by all fairness prohibit ALL unsolicited communication.
if the argument to create this law is to protect an individual's right to privacy (which isn't a right) or rather their right to own property and their right to illegal search and seizure, then it must protect that right across the board. this law is saying that an individual can establish that it does not want to receive communication unless if it has signed up for the list. thus there should be commercial free lists, and a general don't knock on my door to sell me frozen meat, and a general don't put mail in my mailbox that i didn't authorize list, and and and.
it's not the problem space of the federal governement. it might be annoying, but the federal governement CANNOT ban any type of activity that the general population deems annoying.
There is no right to go into someones house and annoy them. I can have a no tresspass sign on my lawn; this is the equivlent for a telephone.
nothing forces you to have a publicly available telephone. get a private phone from a company that DOES NOT sell/distribute your number. nothing forces you to watch television, but the channels are there, beaming onto your property filled with annoying commercials! by the same token, these annoying marketing ploys should be outlawed and the companies should be fined for marketing over these public airways (radio/tv, even any quiet marketing such as the "friends" cast drinking a budweiser should be banned and fined heavily).
you're right that companies don't have right, but what about individual businesses? a lawn care service trying to market itself to the community, etc. do these people have rights? regardless of weather a company has rights, is it the job of a federal government to police a business such that if a business is annoying to the people, then the government can put that business out of business? i believe that there's something in the constitution which prohibits restriction of inter-state commerce. this effectively restricts inter-state trade. company A from IOWA cannot now market itself anymore.
once again, this problem space should be handled by the free market and by technology (it's a technological problem). get a conmmunication method (phone, email, pager, whatever) from a provider which restricts access to whom may contact you.
the telemarketing folks will find new and innoventive ways to attempt to stay alive. perhaps they'll start sending pages to pagers if that's aloud. then the consumer will be the one calling the telemarketers. perhaps the pizza hut delivery line will have adverts for others before you get to order your pizza.
please. this measure will effectively put the telemarketing business out of business. those people who don't sign up will be called so much that they will be forced to sign up for the list. telemarketing is based on the same business model that spam is, but i suspect that telemarketing hit rate is slightly higher. basically, they make 100 calls an hour and try to get 3 maybe 5 people to sign up for a magazine, order a new credit card, whatever. the actual credit card company pays the telemarketing company a bounty for each credit application/mag. subscription they make. this measure is effectively putting the pool of phone numbers that are available to be called at a very low rate. it's not going to be really a pool of people who buy stuff from telemarketers, just people who haven't signed up for the list yet.
i've said over and over, this problem space did no t and does not require legislation to resolve. in fact, i don't see any constitutional grounds for our congress to make such a law. but alas, the masses enjoy the benefits of the law, so it must be good. why not limit the freedoms of a few to benefit the masses?
you completely hit the nail on the head. i absolutely loathe web interfaces for applications. (though, somehow, i've found myself making a living of developing various web apps recently). it's a STATIC ENVIRONMENT! you post, and you get... client apps, even java client apps are MUCH more robust, and more complete of a user experience.
there's some things that a web app is good for, account balances, account history and such. i think the financial institutions have done a fairly good job of putting their customers information on the web, but then again that information is fairly static.
j2ee is a nice architecture, and hopefully one day i'll be hooking the ejb components up to a client java app, or even a applet application.
probably because that's what the authors are learning, and that's the hot topics. 8 years ago, c++ classes were teaching how to code all types of lists. i guess because that's what people did a lot. that or so the people who used the lists had some notion of what a list is and what it does.
the only reason that someone today would write a list class in java or in c++ or any other oo language is that they _really_ need something specific or they don't understand the power of using tested code. it generally outweighs any performance gain as well as your need to know the implementation detains (which are commonly available for your reference anyway).
so now we're trading ideas on the other latest and greatest stuff everyone comes up with. once you learn this pattern it's time to move on to the next one..
this would be a great feature. if i could put my mozilla profile (including skin, and all other changes) onto mozilla.org or someplace like that, then wehn ever i stepped to a new browser i could have it use my settings. i don't really like switching constatly the search engine from netscape to google.
'We want Information...Information...Information.'
'Who are you?'
'The new Number Two.'
'Who is Number One?'
'You are Number Six.'
'I am not a number - I am a free Man!'
as much as the constitution doesn't explictly define a right to privacy, it doesn't either require one to diseminate their own information. thus, it allows privacy. it also restricts unreasonable searches and seizures on your property which does provide a level of privacy.
you don't seem to mind others profiting from your personal information and the collective information as a whole. that's fine, give out our personal information. there are those of us who would prefer to not have our personal information, likes, dislikes, purchasing habits, etc used to further the marketing and sales efforts which will ultimately fatten the pocket of a few CxO's.
it seems the only people concerned about privacy are trying to hide something
it's odd that exercising certain rights raise suspicion, while exercising other rights are perfectly normal. we have a right to vote, and doing so is quasi-normal. but... if a police office comes to your house and askes to come inside (just to talk), and you tell him to go get a freaking warrant, you're viewed as having something to hide. merely for exercising your rights.
those legal schmucks always paint themselves into a wall with thier wording. this leave phone calls available for any reason outside of what's explicitly defnied above?
good evening Mr <i>name here</i>,
i'm conducting a telephone awareness campaign to merely to make people in your neighborhood aware of a really really big sale that Mr. Bob's Ford company is having this weekend.
that or it will be illegal for church members to call and invite visitors to come back and visit with them again to their church as they are clearly inducing a charitable contribution.
where is the defined? telemarketing isn't always about sales. the marketingdroids would have you think that it includes advertising and brand recognition, etc, etc.
maybe at home you do this, but most businesses i've seen will re-image the machine (45 minutes maybe, mostly automated), or will restore from backup of there's serious problems.
i agree that IT needs to work closely with the customer to define their software needs, but once that's been defined and IT is left to put it together, there should be as little latency in the process as possible.
hardware costs are rediculously low. 5-6 years ago 1500$ might have gotten a P-200, 64MB, and it would be good to get the job done. today, a software developer should expect the same type of investment in the tools they use. a 1500$ machine from tigerdirect includes a dual athlon 2000, 1GB ram and some other wiz bang stuff. management should have no trouble putting that on the desktop for an employee developing current applications. someone who maintains COBOL code on the mainframe is a different story. someone maintaining that VB 5.0 database maintenance application is a different story. it's not about the kewl factor or any such thing. it's about not having to constantly take little breaks because the machine is busy caching or building or starting a webserver.
if mcD's had done that it might have been a valid patent. patents are suppose to allow a business with a keen idea to introduce that idea without other big companies pirating and squashing them. patents also have a short shelf life IIRC, but i believe in this day and age that shelf life needs to be cut way down. 2-3 years perhaps. mcD's would have benefited from their drive through system and others would have come out with a slightly different drive through system that might have even made drive throughs much better. here's an idea patent the use of accepting credit cards for payment at the drive through ordering machine. then when the customer gets up to the window, they sign the reciept and off they go. if you were the machine maker and an investor in said machine/process you would want your investment protected.
... visited Seattle for about 2 weeks about a month ago, and did driving at various times of the day, in various areas.
did you by chance drive to work at 8:00a.m. and leave for home at 5:00 p.m. did you ask any people who do drive to work how their experience was? i was in seattle working for 2 weeks last year and was fortunate enough to stay downtown w/i walking distance to work. most of the people in the office took the bus to work because the traffic was so bad. i rode in someone's vehicle twice while there, once to dinner on friday evening and once on a lunch to "meet the man". traffice seemed fine to me too, but i wasn't driving to work. most people used park and ride type systems, driving to the parking lot and bussing the rest of the way. parking in downtown seattle is also not cheap IIRC.
chicago also has more of a transit system than seattle does (trains).
the grass is always greener on the other side. living in seattle you either have longs commutes or outrageous rent prices. prices to purchase a home is astronomical. yes it's a beautiful city, but...
you're not paranoid... they really are out to get you... muhaha
you would think that someone who clearly wants to be a computer geek would have asked a few friends or some such before posting this to/. maybe start with a usenet group or an irc channel. it's obvious that the guy doesn't even dual boot as most of the/. crowd does.
while IBM is heavy into the opensource movement, they don't always favor the GPL. their eclipse product is licensed under a CPL which is a BSDish license. allows you to release closed source derivitives. As a result, they're using the GTK 2 library as a foundation for their linux SWT toolkit as oppose to QT/KDE. Sun does the same with their NetBeans product with a similar license, except NetBeans is "pure" java and doesn't rely on system gui calls.
Open Source itself isn't a bad thing, it's the viral nature of the GPL that lots of companies don't like. They like to be able to give a little and still release a "Enterprise" or "Enahnced" version that's closed up tight.
that's my kind of driving!! unfortunately there's always a set of eyes in the passenger seat peering over at the speedometer saying "aren't you going a little too fast?" i don't understand how women like to drive w/i 5 mph of the speed limits, but their mouths can easily vocalize well past 50% over any stated speed limits i've ever seen.
Of course Wine can implement 100% of the Windows APIsbut that's OK because no apps immediately start depending on new functionality as soon as a new OS is released
continuing on. I believe that new apps from the os vendor do immediately start to take advantage of new functionality in the OS. it's other vendors software that might take time to get up to speed.
i believe that Wine is more a hack than a solution. if the problem is having a need to run windows applications, then the solution is to run windows. i couldn't imagine a production type environment where a linux user (server or desktop) were in dire need of a windows application that they wouldn't just run windows.
Certainly, and I really like the taste of beer, that's why i grab myself a couple alcohol-free beers in the morning before making the commute to work. Once though, I was picked up for speeding and swirving a little. me thinks perhaps I grabbed the wrong bottles that morning. anyway...
caffinated beverages are consumed for their stimulating properties, alcoholic beverages are consumed for their alcoholic properties and water is consumed for its thirst quenching properties. some how i think this shit's here for a reason.
some technologies are best left alone, by the wayside. the web was not ment to deliver client applications. java script is a bad attempt to push a round peg into a square hole.
i would conclude that your browser is an idiot since it renders something that isn't defined. HTML had poor definitions for these types of things and css cleaned it up a bit. css is not adding extra stuff, but giving cleaner control to the page author.
sure it is, but it only specifies how wide to draw the border, not how to draw the border. it can be 3-d, dashed, whatever (it can even be rainbow color as the HTML 4.01 doesn't allow you to specify a color for a table border though IE will allow you to set a bordercolor attribute and display it). CSS came along to rectify lots of these things.
i can never understand why so many people are resistant to css. it makes authoring pages much easier and cleaner to maintain.
Slashdot Mirror
i'll sound like a friggin broken record, but this problem isn't the job of the federal government, or the state government for that matter.
your newspaper readers will soon complain that it's annoying to read the news paper b/c they can't find the news mixed in with all the advertising. all the while the newspapers are raking in huge amounts of cash.
an assult? i assume you're joking, right?
telemarketing doesn't directly provide you with cheeper phone service, nor should it. it does provide you with cheeper credit cards and whatever is currently being telemarketed. those products costs are factored in the cost of the marketing of the material the same as the products that are being marketed on the television.
my point was that there is no responsibility or authority of the federal governemt to prohibit unsolicited communication outside of what the constitution allows. and if the federal governement prohibits any unsolicited communication, then it must by all fairness prohibit ALL unsolicited communication.
if the argument to create this law is to protect an individual's right to privacy (which isn't a right) or rather their right to own property and their right to illegal search and seizure, then it must protect that right across the board. this law is saying that an individual can establish that it does not want to receive communication unless if it has signed up for the list. thus there should be commercial free lists, and a general don't knock on my door to sell me frozen meat, and a general don't put mail in my mailbox that i didn't authorize list, and and and.
it's not the problem space of the federal governement. it might be annoying, but the federal governement CANNOT ban any type of activity that the general population deems annoying.
There is no right to go into someones house and annoy them. I can have a no tresspass sign on my lawn; this is the equivlent for a telephone.
nothing forces you to have a publicly available telephone. get a private phone from a company that DOES NOT sell/distribute your number. nothing forces you to watch television, but the channels are there, beaming onto your property filled with annoying commercials! by the same token, these annoying marketing ploys should be outlawed and the companies should be fined for marketing over these public airways (radio/tv, even any quiet marketing such as the "friends" cast drinking a budweiser should be banned and fined heavily).
you're right that companies don't have right, but what about individual businesses? a lawn care service trying to market itself to the community, etc. do these people have rights? regardless of weather a company has rights, is it the job of a federal government to police a business such that if a business is annoying to the people, then the government can put that business out of business? i believe that there's something in the constitution which prohibits restriction of inter-state commerce. this effectively restricts inter-state trade. company A from IOWA cannot now market itself anymore.
once again, this problem space should be handled by the free market and by technology (it's a technological problem). get a conmmunication method (phone, email, pager, whatever) from a provider which restricts access to whom may contact you.
the telemarketing folks will find new and innoventive ways to attempt to stay alive. perhaps they'll start sending pages to pagers if that's aloud. then the consumer will be the one calling the telemarketers. perhaps the pizza hut delivery line will have adverts for others before you get to order your pizza.
not the job of the federal government.
please. this measure will effectively put the telemarketing business out of business. those people who don't sign up will be called so much that they will be forced to sign up for the list. telemarketing is based on the same business model that spam is, but i suspect that telemarketing hit rate is slightly higher. basically, they make 100 calls an hour and try to get 3 maybe 5 people to sign up for a magazine, order a new credit card, whatever. the actual credit card company pays the telemarketing company a bounty for each credit application/mag. subscription they make. this measure is effectively putting the pool of phone numbers that are available to be called at a very low rate. it's not going to be really a pool of people who buy stuff from telemarketers, just people who haven't signed up for the list yet.
i've said over and over, this problem space did no t and does not require legislation to resolve. in fact, i don't see any constitutional grounds for our congress to make such a law. but alas, the masses enjoy the benefits of the law, so it must be good. why not limit the freedoms of a few to benefit the masses?
you completely hit the nail on the head. i absolutely loathe web interfaces for applications. (though, somehow, i've found myself making a living of developing various web apps recently). it's a STATIC ENVIRONMENT! you post, and you get... client apps, even java client apps are MUCH more robust, and more complete of a user experience.
there's some things that a web app is good for, account balances, account history and such. i think the financial institutions have done a fairly good job of putting their customers information on the web, but then again that information is fairly static.
j2ee is a nice architecture, and hopefully one day i'll be hooking the ejb components up to a client java app, or even a applet application.
probably because that's what the authors are learning, and that's the hot topics. 8 years ago, c++ classes were teaching how to code all types of lists. i guess because that's what people did a lot. that or so the people who used the lists had some notion of what a list is and what it does.
the only reason that someone today would write a list class in java or in c++ or any other oo language is that they _really_ need something specific or they don't understand the power of using tested code. it generally outweighs any performance gain as well as your need to know the implementation detains (which are commonly available for your reference anyway).
so now we're trading ideas on the other latest and greatest stuff everyone comes up with. once you learn this pattern it's time to move on to the next one..
this would be a great feature. if i could put my mozilla profile (including skin, and all other changes) onto mozilla.org or someplace like that, then wehn ever i stepped to a new browser i could have it use my settings. i don't really like switching constatly the search engine from netscape to google.
'We want Information...Information...Information.'
'Who are you?'
'The new Number Two.'
'Who is Number One?'
'You are Number Six.'
'I am not a number - I am a free Man!'
as much as the constitution doesn't explictly define a right to privacy, it doesn't either require one to diseminate their own information. thus, it allows privacy. it also restricts unreasonable searches and seizures on your property which does provide a level of privacy.
you don't seem to mind others profiting from your personal information and the collective information as a whole. that's fine, give out our personal information. there are those of us who would prefer to not have our personal information, likes, dislikes, purchasing habits, etc used to further the marketing and sales efforts which will ultimately fatten the pocket of a few CxO's.
it seems the only people concerned about privacy are trying to hide something
it's odd that exercising certain rights raise suspicion, while exercising other rights are perfectly normal. we have a right to vote, and doing so is quasi-normal. but... if a police office comes to your house and askes to come inside (just to talk), and you tell him to go get a freaking warrant, you're viewed as having something to hide. merely for exercising your rights.
where is the defined? telemarketing isn't always about sales. the marketingdroids would have you think that it includes advertising and brand recognition, etc, etc.
maybe at home you do this, but most businesses i've seen will re-image the machine (45 minutes maybe, mostly automated), or will restore from backup of there's serious problems.
i agree that IT needs to work closely with the customer to define their software needs, but once that's been defined and IT is left to put it together, there should be as little latency in the process as possible.
hardware costs are rediculously low. 5-6 years ago 1500$ might have gotten a P-200, 64MB, and it would be good to get the job done. today, a software developer should expect the same type of investment in the tools they use. a 1500$ machine from tigerdirect includes a dual athlon 2000, 1GB ram and some other wiz bang stuff. management should have no trouble putting that on the desktop for an employee developing current applications. someone who maintains COBOL code on the mainframe is a different story. someone maintaining that VB 5.0 database maintenance application is a different story. it's not about the kewl factor or any such thing. it's about not having to constantly take little breaks because the machine is busy caching or building or starting a webserver.
if mcD's had done that it might have been a valid patent. patents are suppose to allow a business with a keen idea to introduce that idea without other big companies pirating and squashing them. patents also have a short shelf life IIRC, but i believe in this day and age that shelf life needs to be cut way down. 2-3 years perhaps. mcD's would have benefited from their drive through system and others would have come out with a slightly different drive through system that might have even made drive throughs much better. here's an idea patent the use of accepting credit cards for payment at the drive through ordering machine. then when the customer gets up to the window, they sign the reciept and off they go. if you were the machine maker and an investor in said machine/process you would want your investment protected.
... visited Seattle for about 2 weeks about a month ago, and did driving at various times of the day, in various areas.
did you by chance drive to work at 8:00a.m. and leave for home at 5:00 p.m. did you ask any people who do drive to work how their experience was? i was in seattle working for 2 weeks last year and was fortunate enough to stay downtown w/i walking distance to work. most of the people in the office took the bus to work because the traffic was so bad. i rode in someone's vehicle twice while there, once to dinner on friday evening and once on a lunch to "meet the man". traffice seemed fine to me too, but i wasn't driving to work. most people used park and ride type systems, driving to the parking lot and bussing the rest of the way. parking in downtown seattle is also not cheap IIRC.
chicago also has more of a transit system than seattle does (trains).
the grass is always greener on the other side. living in seattle you either have longs commutes or outrageous rent prices. prices to purchase a home is astronomical. yes it's a beautiful city, but...
you're not paranoid... they really are out to get you... muhaha
/. maybe start with a usenet group or an irc channel. it's obvious that the guy doesn't even dual boot as most of the /. crowd does.
you would think that someone who clearly wants to be a computer geek would have asked a few friends or some such before posting this to
amature
while IBM is heavy into the opensource movement, they don't always favor the GPL. their eclipse product is licensed under a CPL which is a BSDish license. allows you to release closed source derivitives. As a result, they're using the GTK 2 library as a foundation for their linux SWT toolkit as oppose to QT/KDE. Sun does the same with their NetBeans product with a similar license, except NetBeans is "pure" java and doesn't rely on system gui calls.
Open Source itself isn't a bad thing, it's the viral nature of the GPL that lots of companies don't like. They like to be able to give a little and still release a "Enterprise" or "Enahnced" version that's closed up tight.
50% over the speed limit
that's my kind of driving!! unfortunately there's always a set of eyes in the passenger seat peering over at the speedometer saying "aren't you going a little too fast?" i don't understand how women like to drive w/i 5 mph of the speed limits, but their mouths can easily vocalize well past 50% over any stated speed limits i've ever seen.
Of course Wine can implement 100% of the Windows APIsbut that's OK because no apps immediately start depending on new functionality as soon as a new OS is released
continuing on. I believe that new apps from the os vendor do immediately start to take advantage of new functionality in the OS. it's other vendors software that might take time to get up to speed.
i believe that Wine is more a hack than a solution. if the problem is having a need to run windows applications, then the solution is to run windows. i couldn't imagine a production type environment where a linux user (server or desktop) were in dire need of a windows application that they wouldn't just run windows.
Certainly, and I really like the taste of beer, that's why i grab myself a couple alcohol-free beers in the morning before making the commute to work. Once though, I was picked up for speeding and swirving a little. me thinks perhaps I grabbed the wrong bottles that morning. anyway...
... non-dairy creamer... dupe-free slashdot...
caffinated beverages are consumed for their stimulating properties, alcoholic beverages are consumed for their alcoholic properties and water is consumed for its thirst quenching properties. some how i think this shit's here for a reason.
fat free hamburgers... carb free pancakes
My GOD man, have they any decency? the infadels!! someone must alert Mr. GWB that these people exist.
and others have the right to comment and or flame your repetitive nature as well. free speach goes both ways ;)
some technologies are best left alone, by the wayside. the web was not ment to deliver client applications. java script is a bad attempt to push a round peg into a square hole.
i would conclude that your browser is an idiot since it renders something that isn't defined. HTML had poor definitions for these types of things and css cleaned it up a bit. css is not adding extra stuff, but giving cleaner control to the page author.
sure it is, but it only specifies how wide to draw the border, not how to draw the border. it can be 3-d, dashed, whatever (it can even be rainbow color as the HTML 4.01 doesn't allow you to specify a color for a table border though IE will allow you to set a bordercolor attribute and display it). CSS came along to rectify lots of these things.
i can never understand why so many people are resistant to css. it makes authoring pages much easier and cleaner to maintain.
i didn't say nobody would, just the masses wouldn't generally do it.