Allright... Where should I start? It's not whether an OS is dead that matters but whether people find it useful. I have not really used a mobile phone since 2000. Or when I did use a phone it was never on, and people had to email me to tell me they would call me. So you could say I was not really into mobile phones. I started using one again a few months ago, for business. Guess which phone it is? A Nokia N95-8G that had been used for two years prior to me getting it. And you know what, EVERYTHING FUCKING WORKS ON IT. IT JUST WORKS. My only other small device (that I use actively) is a Nokia N810 with Maemo OS which is 'based' on Debian and has SERIOUS issues but I'm okay with it, I'm okay with it because I consider my N810 to be the best book reader out there, it has a shell, ssh, python, various compilers, source-code, documents and so on. Is it buggy? Hell yes. Am I happy with it? Yes. And that is all you need to remember about 'dead OSes' if people like it, it ain't dead.
Take care,
(a random coder who's owned almost every non-phone palm OS devices back from 1997. When I saw the N810, I knew I was home)
A Grizzly Bear? Next to the flour? Hhhm, I doubt that. The plank could never hold the weight of the bear, especially if we consider that the plank *already* has at the very least a few items on it. Simple physics my dear Woosh, sorry my dear Watson.
Okay, exactly WHICH PART of////// Rutkowska says that for her own security, "I don't use any A/V product on any of my machines (including all the virtual machines). I don't see how an A/V program could offer any increased security over the quite-reasonable-setup I already deployed with the help of virtualization."/////
did you NOT understand? Did you read that passage? I never got the idea she was pushing it for others. She was talking about HER setup. Your reaction is, well a little bit over-over-over-reactionary....
Forgot !!! My girlfriend (an artist), who gets annoyed when *anything* on her laptop does not work, is using Ubuntu as her main OS. She only browses downloads torrents, listens to music with it or edits a.doc file in OpenOffice (knowing how to save back to.doc format). You know what she says when she uses XP (for a specific VOIP app she's running) ? It's so slow !!! How can Ubuntu be so much faster than this? She genuinely wonders and believe you me, she dont know computers, dont like them, dont feel them... so if MY girlfriend is happy with Ubuntu and not with XP, exactly HOW is Ubuntu not ready for the Desktop?
I remember struggling with Linux in the late '90s. I got so mad at myself for not being able to do stuff that I felt *EVERYBODY* else could do with *their* Linux/BSD. Didn't touch it for another two years, then got back into it. Still had headaches, kept using various linux distros on and off but never as my main/sole OS. Then about two years ago, annoyed with Ubuntu I started looking around. Remembered the nightmare that Debian testing was a few years ago and felt that Mandrake/Mandriva was not for me, I wanted something new. I was still mutilated from my experience with BSD. And I didn't want to use Backtrack as my main OS (although....hhhhmm !!!). (These choices are not set in stone, this is just the thought process I had, so don't start on how Debian is perfect....). I eventually found PARDUS LINUX. http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/projects/comar/PythonInPardus.html And it's my ONLY INSTALLED OS. Do you *hear* me? *Everything* else is vmwared... And I'm *not* a *nix/Linux nerd... Oh yeah, I code mainly in Python for biz apps, and Pardus and Python are in bed together. If you like Python and have looked at window managers with bindings for Python but wanted more, go try Pardus. It's already been translated in a gazillions languages. Guess where it was made, TURKEY !!!!! nuff said... I fucking love this World, no matter how hard they try to crush certain things, they just keep on popping up, *all* over the place. So today i run 7-10 OS, on my little laptop, and I *never* was an amazing coder, sysadmin, geek or whatver the fuck you had to be to be able to do stuff I saw people do back then but could not for the life of me achieve..... So saying it ain't ready for the Desktop doesn't say shit... If you mean people that use their computer like some people use their car(as long as it works I'm fine, should it break done let's go see the mechanic) well then fuck no, Linux ain't for them, unless it's all locked down and then they won't use it, they want to install the fucking Emoticons. Really... Let's stop acting like there are so many people ready for Linux. This is what I use:
1. Pardus where I code in Python, Asm, Forth but 65% Python, spend most of my time INSIDE A SHELL even though KDE is my default WM. You hear that? Me who could not format my HDDs in the ways I wanted 10 years ago coz I was 2 fucking dumb, am getting bored of GUIs and starting to code my tools so they ALL run from a shell...
2. Backtrack4 for well that you know, backtracking stuff, *lol*
3. XP in vmware for certain malware/virus analysis stuff or specific shit, like MS-Office
4. a few other small live Cds, for all kind of different stuff, mostly collections of utilities --> vmware
5. A couple of sec/forensics related distros --> vmware
6. A few other Linux --> OpenBSD, Debian, Centos, and Ubuntu, sometimes even Fedora ---> vmware
I'm now thinking of building my own distro, what the fuck !!!!!!!! Not ready for the Desktop???? We're taking over the fucking world, more like it. AND I AM among the late ones.... I'm not smart, I'm no genius, I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind. (laughing so hard)
OH yeah, on the Source Control side of things, same story, back then ALL I was doing was fucking up, really, felt so dumb. And now ? git/svn/bzr/mercurial mainly svn for lots of google.code stuff (mainly django projects in my case), hg and bzr coz a couple of things that I follow us that and git coz God is a coder, and he loves us. Oh the joy.... I love you all for contributing to what we have today... Thank you.
Some dumb coder / with an eye on net-sec/vulnerabilities/exploits (you know backtracking).
>>> Why is it that network providers are working their hardest to stop bittorrent, yet are perfectly willing to let the viruses, the botnets, the port scans, and untold mountains of spam propagate on their networks. >>>
You are kidding right ?????????? People are already fucking dying now and some of those not dead yet (forget about big/small a percentage of total population) would fucking love tools allowing them to surf the net without fucking blinders. They are **already** risking their lives, so risking a bit more of it for uncensored info, is like normal. That uncensored info is the Great Flood to some. Peace.
Well that's one way of looking at it. Contrast with Rosa Parks in '55 and what it allowed. There's alaways a way of looking at what's fucked up and pointing the finger. I prefer to focus on the good stuff that's everywhere. And maybe it ain't going fast enough, and maybe it goes backwards sometimes, but if on top of all of that I have to be pointing at everything and go "It's fucked up", well what's the fucking point of being here at all ???? So I don't look at it that way. This tool is a good step forward. Period. Stay happy =)
... simply because nobody has really been willing to undergo an experiment of that caliber.
My dear fellow human being, where on earth did you get the idea that *willingness* had anything to do with it ? Do you actually believe that they would ask you before "experimenting" on you ?
Peace, Love and Homogeneous Transformation Matrices =)
Oh dear, you're worried about trains getting stuck at "16,640 feet (5,072 meters)" ? I bet you never take the plane. Forget about the plane getting stuck, it just falls down...
If you're going to compare market caps, the compare *one* market cap with *another* market cap, not with an orange, cash in bank or whatever else. MSFT market cap = $270 billion.
I disagree ! I often find code that is years old, compiled with forgotten libs. Does that stop me from learning from it ? Does the itch have to be recent ? Sometimes all you need is a direction, an approach, a spark, anything... With OSS software, most of the time somebody already struggled with what I'm struggling with. That says it all.
So you basically 'pay large sums of money' to microsoft for half-baked pre-alpha code but you find yourself in a better position than those who get the same thing for free ? What am I missing ?
In the south-west of the Netherlands on 18 November 1421, water from the North Sea swept through 72 villages and 10,000 people died. Again in 1570, 1825, 1894, 1916 and 1953, disastrous breaches of Dutch coastal defences occurred.
In the southern provinces of Zeeland, Zuid-Holland, and Noord-Brabant, flooding of islands and polders killed 1,835 people and forced the evacuation of 70,000 more. Ten thousand animals drowned, and 4,500 buildings were destroyed. Floods covered 9% of Dutch agricultural land, and sea water inundated 2,000 km of polders. Damage was estimated at 895 million Dutch Guilders, an enormous amount of money at the time. ----------
Do you have specific examples ? Show me the code. Just saying that everytime you wrote a Python script, it bailed on you, doesn't count. Where's the meat ? Let's get to it. I'll bet you half a box of beers that the mistake is on your side. If it's a bug with the libs that you use, post a bug report and be happy. There is NO BUG-LESS software, get used to it.
A percentage of the world population cannot deal with probabilities, conditions, etc... They want certainty, 100% sure stuff. The problem is that we live in an uncertain world and a huge chunk off humanity refuse to accept that. Regards.
IBM are old masters who have indeed been around for a long time. They're still around, and they're betting on OSS. You think IBM have seen something that they like about OSS ? Something that's good for them ? Something that is worth fighting for ? More than anything else ? They must have gotten really good at spotting good horses by now. Isn't it logical to assume that they're convinced that OSS is the best horse to bet on at this stage ? I don't know about you, but I firmly believe that SCO's got it coming big time, and it's not wishful thinking. The only other alternative would be for SCO to win, but to me, that would mean that IBM, Novell, Microsoft, SCO etc... are *all together* out to get OSS. And that's just too much for me to swallow right now.
L0pht were fantastic. There were always 'up-there'. There was always some wicked code coming from them, new ideas, a PalmOS wardialer, whatever. They were doing what they were good at. @Stake are just corporate money whores. You can see them as a front for Microsoft. By that, I mean that Microsoft will use them to validate & push their own agenda. Apart from that, they're the security equivalent of McDonalds. SpaceRogue mentionned that Weld was the only person from L0pht left at @Stake. If all the rats leave the ship, do you think it's because 'something' is wrong with the ship ? You have group of friends/coders/hackers who fuck off when funding arrives ?!! What does that tell you ? As soon as @Stake became alive, I forgot about them. For me L0pht died right there and then. I doubt that I'm alone in that belief. In my mind @Stake == 1/L0pht || @Stake =! L0pht. Pick your favorite.
Slashdot Mirror
Allright... Where should I start? It's not whether an OS is dead that matters but whether people find it useful. I have not really used a mobile phone since 2000. Or when I did use a phone it was never on, and people had to email me to tell me they would call me. So you could say I was not really into mobile phones. I started using one again a few months ago, for business. Guess which phone it is? A Nokia N95-8G that had been used for two years prior to me getting it. And you know what, EVERYTHING FUCKING WORKS ON IT. IT JUST WORKS. My only other small device (that I use actively) is a Nokia N810 with Maemo OS which is 'based' on Debian and has SERIOUS issues but I'm okay with it, I'm okay with it because I consider my N810 to be the best book reader out there, it has a shell, ssh, python, various compilers, source-code, documents and so on. Is it buggy? Hell yes. Am I happy with it? Yes. And that is all you need to remember about 'dead OSes' if people like it, it ain't dead.
Take care,
(a random coder who's owned almost every non-phone palm OS devices back from 1997. When I saw the N810, I knew I was home)
A Grizzly Bear? Next to the flour? Hhhm, I doubt that. The plank could never hold the weight of the bear, especially if we consider that the plank *already* has at the very least a few items on it.
Simple physics my dear Woosh, sorry my dear Watson.
Okay, exactly WHICH PART of ////// Rutkowska says that for her own security, "I don't use any A/V product on any of my machines (including all the virtual machines). I don't see how an A/V program could offer any increased security over the quite-reasonable-setup I already deployed with the help of virtualization."/////
did you NOT understand? Did you read that passage? I never got the idea she was pushing it for others. She was talking about HER setup. Your reaction is, well a little bit over-over-over-reactionary....
Forgot !!! My girlfriend (an artist), who gets annoyed when *anything* on her laptop does not work, is using Ubuntu as her main OS. She only browses downloads torrents, listens to music with it or edits a .doc file in OpenOffice (knowing how to save back to .doc format). You know what she says when she uses XP (for a specific VOIP app she's running) ? It's so slow !!! How can Ubuntu be so much faster than this? She genuinely wonders and believe you me, she dont know computers, dont like them, dont feel them... so if MY girlfriend is happy with Ubuntu and not with XP, exactly HOW is Ubuntu not ready for the Desktop?
Greetings =)
I remember struggling with Linux in the late '90s. I got so mad at myself for not being able to do stuff that I felt *EVERYBODY* else could do with *their* Linux/BSD. Didn't touch it for another two years, then got back into it. Still had headaches, kept using various linux distros on and off but never as my main/sole OS. Then about two years ago, annoyed with Ubuntu I started looking around. Remembered the nightmare that Debian testing was a few years ago and felt that Mandrake/Mandriva was not for me, I wanted something new. I was still mutilated from my experience with BSD. And I didn't want to use Backtrack as my main OS (although....hhhhmm !!!). (These choices are not set in stone, this is just the thought process I had, so don't start on how Debian is perfect....). I eventually found PARDUS LINUX. http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/projects/comar/PythonInPardus.html And it's my ONLY INSTALLED OS. Do you *hear* me? *Everything* else is vmwared... And I'm *not* a *nix/Linux nerd... Oh yeah, I code mainly in Python for biz apps, and Pardus and Python are in bed together. If you like Python and have looked at window managers with bindings for Python but wanted more, go try Pardus. It's already been translated in a gazillions languages. Guess where it was made, TURKEY !!!!! nuff said... I fucking love this World, no matter how hard they try to crush certain things, they just keep on popping up, *all* over the place. So today i run 7-10 OS, on my little laptop, and I *never* was an amazing coder, sysadmin, geek or whatver the fuck you had to be to be able to do stuff I saw people do back then but could not for the life of me achieve..... So saying it ain't ready for the Desktop doesn't say shit... If you mean people that use their computer like some people use their car(as long as it works I'm fine, should it break done let's go see the mechanic) well then fuck no, Linux ain't for them, unless it's all locked down and then they won't use it, they want to install the fucking Emoticons. Really... Let's stop acting like there are so many people ready for Linux. This is what I use:
1. Pardus where I code in Python, Asm, Forth but 65% Python, spend most of my time INSIDE A SHELL even though KDE is my default WM. You hear that? Me who could not format my HDDs in the ways I wanted 10 years ago coz I was 2 fucking dumb, am getting bored of GUIs and starting to code my tools so they ALL run from a shell...
2. Backtrack4 for well that you know, backtracking stuff, *lol*
3. XP in vmware for certain malware/virus analysis stuff or specific shit, like MS-Office
4. a few other small live Cds, for all kind of different stuff, mostly collections of utilities --> vmware
5. A couple of sec/forensics related distros --> vmware
6. A few other Linux --> OpenBSD, Debian, Centos, and Ubuntu, sometimes even Fedora ---> vmware
I'm now thinking of building my own distro, what the fuck !!!!!!!! Not ready for the Desktop???? We're taking over the fucking world, more like it. AND I AM among the late ones.... I'm not smart, I'm no genius, I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind. (laughing so hard)
OH yeah, on the Source Control side of things, same story, back then ALL I was doing was fucking up, really, felt so dumb. And now ? git/svn/bzr/mercurial mainly svn for lots of google.code stuff (mainly django projects in my case), hg and bzr coz a couple of things that I follow us that and git coz God is a coder, and he loves us. Oh the joy.... I love you all for contributing to what we have today... Thank you.
Some dumb coder / with an eye on net-sec/vulnerabilities/exploits (you know backtracking).
Peace.
>>>
Why is it that network providers are working their hardest to stop bittorrent, yet are perfectly willing to let the viruses, the botnets, the port scans, and untold mountains of spam propagate on their networks.
>>>
This is my new sig !!!!!! Best line ever...
They're unbreakable you fool.
You are kidding right ?????????? People are already fucking dying now and some of those not dead yet (forget about big/small a percentage of total population) would fucking love tools allowing them to surf the net without fucking blinders. They are **already** risking their lives, so risking a bit more of it for uncensored info, is like normal. That uncensored info is the Great Flood to some. Peace.
Well that's one way of looking at it. Contrast with Rosa Parks in '55 and what it allowed. There's alaways a way of looking at what's fucked up and pointing the finger. I prefer to focus on the good stuff that's everywhere. And maybe it ain't going fast enough, and maybe it goes backwards sometimes, but if on top of all of that I have to be pointing at everything and go "It's fucked up", well what's the fucking point of being here at all ???? So I don't look at it that way. This tool is a good step forward. Period. Stay happy =)
My dear fellow human being, where on earth did you get the idea that *willingness* had anything to do with it ? Do you actually believe that they would ask you before "experimenting" on you ?
Peace, Love and Homogeneous Transformation Matrices =)
As opposed to using 'bad' to mean gay ? Isn't that a bit like, 'old-fashioned' huh ???
Similarly don't use 'old fashioned' to mean... zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Greetings,
***Which part*** of
"I'd like those applications to be usable on the Linux and perhaps Mac OS X platforms."
did you not understand ?
Oh dear, you're worried about trains getting stuck at "16,640 feet (5,072 meters)" ? I bet you never take the plane. Forget about the plane getting stuck, it just falls down...
If you're going to compare market caps, the compare *one* market cap with *another* market cap, not with an orange, cash in bank or whatever else. MSFT market cap = $270 billion.
I disagree !
I often find code that is years old, compiled with forgotten libs. Does that stop me from learning from it ? Does the itch have to be recent ? Sometimes all you need is a direction, an approach, a spark, anything... With OSS software, most of the time somebody already struggled with what I'm struggling with. That says it all.
Later.
So you basically 'pay large sums of money' to microsoft for half-baked pre-alpha code but you find yourself in a better position than those who get the same thing for free ? What am I missing ?
Who needs hurricanes ?
e nts/flood.html
9 53
http://www.metoffice.com/education/secondary/stud
In the south-west of the Netherlands on 18 November 1421, water from the North Sea swept through 72 villages and 10,000 people died. Again in 1570, 1825, 1894, 1916 and 1953, disastrous breaches of Dutch coastal defences occurred.
or from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Flood_of_1
In the southern provinces of Zeeland, Zuid-Holland, and Noord-Brabant, flooding of islands and polders killed 1,835 people and forced the evacuation of 70,000 more. Ten thousand animals drowned, and 4,500 buildings were destroyed. Floods covered 9% of Dutch agricultural land, and sea water inundated 2,000 km of polders. Damage was estimated at 895 million Dutch Guilders, an enormous amount of money at the time.
----------
Do you have specific examples ? Show me the code. Just saying that everytime you wrote a Python script, it bailed on you, doesn't count. Where's the meat ? Let's get to it. I'll bet you half a box of beers that the mistake is on your side. If it's a bug with the libs that you use, post a bug report and be happy. There is NO BUG-LESS software, get used to it.
A percentage of the world population cannot deal with probabilities, conditions, etc... They want certainty, 100% sure stuff. The problem is that we live in an uncertain world and a huge chunk off humanity refuse to accept that. Regards.
And you **must have went** to a school where they did not teach any English. Holy Monkey !!!
IBM are old masters who have indeed been around for a long time. They're still around, and they're betting on OSS. You think IBM have seen something that they like about OSS ? Something that's good for them ? Something that is worth fighting for ? More than anything else ? They must have gotten really good at spotting good horses by now. Isn't it logical to assume that they're convinced that OSS is the best horse to bet on at this stage ? I don't know about you, but I firmly believe that SCO's got it coming big time, and it's not wishful thinking. The only other alternative would be for SCO to win, but to me, that would mean that IBM, Novell, Microsoft, SCO etc... are *all together* out to get OSS. And that's just too much for me to swallow right now.
Like you ARE NOT on slashdot answering someone who has too much time at their disposal ?
You crack me up.
No, no, no !!!
It's Steve.
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
**Sweat drops going all over the place**
Vaporware.
L0pht were fantastic. There were always 'up-there'. There was always some wicked code coming from them, new ideas, a PalmOS wardialer, whatever. They were doing what they were good at. @Stake are just corporate money whores. You can see them as a front for Microsoft. By that, I mean that Microsoft will use them to validate & push their own agenda. Apart from that, they're the security equivalent of McDonalds. SpaceRogue mentionned that Weld was the only person from L0pht left at @Stake. If all the rats leave the ship, do you think it's because 'something' is wrong with the ship ? You have group of friends/coders/hackers who fuck off when funding arrives ?!! What does that tell you ? As soon as @Stake became alive, I forgot about them. For me L0pht died right there and then. I doubt that I'm alone in that belief. In my mind @Stake == 1/L0pht || @Stake =! L0pht. Pick your favorite.