WinMX has included ogg as one of it's search options in their newest client v3.3. Their website is devoid of update changes, but I haven't seen it prior to the release of v3.3. (as far as memory serves at least.)
As far as format of Choice(TM), i still perfer mp3s over ogg. I backed up a chunk (109 cds) of my cd collection into 320k mp3s and that was a *bitch* even with automatic cddb labeling. I recently purchased a portable mp3/cd player as well. There are a good number of car mp3 players as well, which extends the convenience of the format, not to mention the abundance of mp3 home stereo solutions.
MP3 is a proprietary format yes, but it isn't restrictive. John Q doesn't need the source code for the format, he just likes the fact that the mp3 format gives him lots of options when it comes to where he listens to his music.
Ogg definately has potential, it seems like they got the format down pretty nicely. Its the hardware-player area that they need to spend some time focusing on to really be a challange to the mp3 format. And I wish them luck because to me, it's nothing but choice, and choice is good.
As far as the name itself, i still find it a bit "weird" speaking the name. "Ogg", i mean that's the kind of noise i make when i'm sick:)
I'm not much into quake or doom like i was a few years back, but I do read/. alot. First thing that came to mind, was "humm, i remember seeing this before."
Personally, I don't know how slashdot is operated, but there should be some sort of system setup that prevents so much duplicate stories. I'm no programmer, but i'm sure something like that can't be that hard.
*shurgs* It's not like dupe stories pisses me off, it the idea that another "fresh" story could be in its place. Everytime i see a duplicate i feel like i'm missing out on a Good StoryTM because of it.:)
However, I will raise a secondary point: if you are attempting to reach the widest audience possible, it would surely make sense to choose a non-proprietary format. Perhaps this isn't the goal of this web site, perhaps they don't care if their visitors can't see the videos? But that would surely be illogical.
I'm sure they care who sees the videos, if not then they wouldn't be offering them at all.
I took the time to explore the site, appariently it's a one-man operation. Which is pretty impressive given the quality of the site. I'd encourge donations to keep him afloat, as he politely asked for on his main page.
So case in point: He cares enough to post them for the public to look at. So he doesn't put them up in Quicktime,.MPG,.ASF, or whatever flavor of encoding *YOU* prefer. At least he did it.
It seems like he was trying to cater to low-bandwidth dial-up users. And this is a good thing to me (i'm on cable) because there are alot of people still on dialup, and i know how it feels when i was on dialup.
It is *logical* for the webmaster. It saves him time to get the commercials in various formats, it saves him bandwidth, while at the same time providing something that many consider interesting.
I'm not trying to rag here, but really it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
EXACTLY! God, so it isn't me! I didn't have realplayer on my system in the den so i figured the commercials were worth getting the player (and they were:) )
spent about 5 minutes scanning Real's download page trying to find something other than RealOne, nope, didn't find Realplayer 8. Went to www.download.com, looked up realplayer 8, found it, clicked the download link..AGGGHHH! The SAME RealOne splattered page comes up again that i just viewed just a moment ago.
Eventually I found it too, but thanks for the link nonetheless.
Getting a piece of "free" software shouldn't be so hard to find. Under different circumstances i'd attribute it to an easter egg hunt.:)
Well, like the article said: there's been reports that Bartelsmann was gonna cut Napster out of their agenda due to bottomline managment, even after they aquired it. So it really doesn't matter if napster gets sold off or just dies really, pretty much the same outcome.
P2P music swapping and the labels opposition to it is starting to become a migrane that doesn't seem to go away for both sides.
All you hear is: "p2p music sharing should be legal!" and "we need to curtail theft of copyrighted works online!" Why the hell is this not being resolved in some fashion that makes both sides relitively happy? Is it that HARD?
One thing that comes to mind when i read articles like this is that there seems to be no effort put into compromising.
Say for example, Company A sells laptops. Company A wants to make money selling laptops. But Company A doesn't want to go out of business.
Logically, Company A should sell laptops at an affordable price to consumers and compete with other vendors to make sure that happens. This way Company A will generate revenue and NOT go out of business. The company makes money, and consumers are happy they got a good deal on a laptop.
How does this relate to the labels? P2P music sharing is undercutting the whole music industry.
"If you can get it for free, why pay for it?" is a often used statement I hear alot. But if you rephrase it to: "if you can get a product of near equal value from somewhere else for free, why pay for it?" you start to get the realization that the music labels should be adding more value to their products. Weither it'd be in Compact Disc form or online music downloads.
To me, the RIAA's view on this is: "If we give an inch, they'll take a mile, we can't let this happen!" and to them I say, HEY! they're ALREADY taking that mile, because your too tight to go the distance and offer more REASONS to purchase music!
What goes around comes around, treat all your consumers as thieves, and they'll act like thieves. It may be wrong legally/morally to download a song without paying for it, but it is also unmoral/sometimes illegal to treat your customers like villans.
So now we have an ugly stand-off between the consumers and the providers. Is this really what they want?
We (as in honest consumers) don't ask for that much really. Affordable, competitive prices on products that offer us value. Most companies do this, why isn't the RIAA looking into it too?/rant
I'm GLAD someone is taking up the challenge to make a BBS documentary, the story needs to be told.
In the summer of 1990 at the age of 10, I remember seeing a local BBS listing in the paper which inspired me to work as a paperboy with my older brother (so I could get a cut of the $), and save up for a computer and try the BBS's out.
Being raised on a TI-99/4a, and before the internet was popular around here, (sure it was in my school, but only on two computers with heavy restrictions), I had no idea of what I was getting myself into, and that was the FUN part! It was all about curiousity at first.
After saving up around $120.00, I saw an ad for a complete IBM XT system w/ CGA monitor, which at the time, and being 10 years old, I thought was a good deal. I also picked up a 2400 baud modem at my local electronics store which came with Qmodem.
So I sat down with my newspaper clipping of local boards and their numbers in front of my very own computer, I dialed...and connected.
Countless nights and weekends I was glued to the computer, dialing up, playing TW2002, and L.O.R.D. and checking all the different BBS's out. My first MajorBBS was "The Playground" Which had 4 lines at the time, but soon expanded to 8 LINES, needless to say i was in heaven. Chatting up the locals on the board what great fun, as well as Tradewars with 8 real-time local users.
Oh god the hours i spent on that system meeting people, talking, gaming, file downloading/uploading, message reading/writing. I guess i'm not the first to say this, but FIDOnet was a blast!
I met quite a number of people though BBS's, which I may have never otherwise met. During that time I became the owner of a local BBS though a hardware/software system purchase, met my first girlfriend at a BBS meet (which lasted for about a year, but being 13 at the time, it was very fun), and ran my own board for the better part of a year on a 486 that I got when i turned 15. Around 1995 and on the BBS scene started to die, and eventually became non-existent in my area by 1996. There was a gap for a while until we got internet access at home, then I found another, BIGGER world to explore. Nothing can truely replace or replicate the BBS times though, what I miss the most was the local community, and the thrill of being a part of it.
The fondest memories I have are playing Duke Nukem on a MajorBBS with 8 people on a board called DOGS. (Dave's Online Gaming Service)...God that was great!
As I sit here, 22 years old now, It seems like a faded memory. Yeah, i'm still young, but damn does this make me feel old.:)
Before I drown in my own memories, My question for Jason is: When your project is finished, how will you get it out to the people who want to see the fruits of your labor? Free or to pay for? I have no problem in paying for it, Just thought I'd ask.
Downloadable episodes of your documentary would be nice, but you'd need some good hosting for that.
Another alternative comes to mind, VHS tapes, or better yet a DVD.
Whatever's best for you. I'm really excited to see the finished product and support it wholeheartedly.
My all time favorite soft drink would have to be: CHERRY COKE, hands down. I was never a big fan of coke, nor do i really care for the flavor cherry in most things. But in combonation, Cherry Coke really brightens up my day.:)
I kind of feel sorry for ForensicTec. True, they did technically break the law, but I don't believe they had any crinimal intent, otherwise I doubt they would have went public about it.
On the other hand, if the Army didn't go after them, then that would send the wrong message to the public too.
ForensicTec made it painfully clear that our government should get off their asses and really impliment stronger security on their systems.
I mean damn, anyone with free software tools and a basic understanding of how to hack could have done this. The Army and other affected government facilities should be so lucky that ForensicTec was just curious, if it were another country doing this for profiling/spying/mounting an attack/sabotage, they'd be up shit creek without a paddle.
It's proof enough for me that the U.S. is more at risk then I previously thought. The amount of taxes taken each year from every citizen is alot, at least they could do is take the time to make sure their password isnt...um.."password" among other things.
I love my country, but it's embarassing to watch it do some of the things it does.
I really pitty the poor folks down in Palm Beach, first they get embarressed to hell and back in the 2000 presidental elections, now the taxpayers pay for machines that can't be audited without voiding the warrenty? WTF?
First off, the article doesn't say how the votes on these machines are counted. I mean, it has to spit out results somehow and somewhere.
Second, these machines were developed by a corp. Now-a-days when scandels are a dime a dozen, do we really need MORE CORPERATIONS digging their hands into politcs?
Third, These are digitalized machines. They have the potential to be hacked, crash, and lose data. And since it's digital that means all three can happen at once or in any combination. I mean yeah it does have a coolness factor, but simplicity is key. It needs to be something that just *works*
Hey, i dunno bout those guys but i can *still* vote with our local lever machine even when the power is out.
If our lever-machine breaks, you'd be the first to know when you can't pull the lever down. Plus, even if it mechanically breaks, you still will always have the votes that have been cast inside prior to the breakage. And if you ever saw one, their monsterous and built like tanks.
If your gonna go digital with voting machines, do it RIGHT. Give the elderly something tangable that assures them that their vote counted, such as a watermarked printout. I mean their gonna expect this now since alot of floridians were so unsure if their votes counted under the old system.
They can't even get an independent review of the voting system's software and security features.
I'd like to know who's bright idea it was to purchase machines with these kind of restuctions and decided to buy them anyway....Oh the the conspiracy theroies one can weave.
Now floridians are going to see every tom, dick, and hairy who loses an election, bitching because the system was flawed, broken, malfunctioned..lets have a recount...a re-re-count, what's that? a hanging system? On to the supreme court!
If I were the people who had to use this machine, i'd demand my representives to get a refund and find a system that's more open. flexable and tailored to the people's choices and expectations.
But I guess that would require their local government listening to *them* instead of *cough*COMPANIES*cough*
I hope they get on the ball with this.
I may not make much sense, but maybe I can make some change.
Cable companies complain that power users use too much bandwidth and thus drowns out normal to light users. So they impose restrictions such as this to curtail it.
Cable companies also said that cable itself would be free of commericals, however it's all i see now-a-days on the tv. Even premium channels like HBO et al promised in their beginnings that it would be commerical free. But even they have commercials. I mean, that was one of the big incentives to pay that premium price.
It wouldn't matter if its a handful of power-users who use kazaa or any other p2p, or those power-users who utilize cable modems for streaming media, such as music and video, which is WHY BROADBAND WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SO GOOD AT.
Thing is people, they designed a system, and promised you all you can eat for a flat fee per month. Around here at least it wasn't $x.xx per MEG/kbps, it was just like the 19.95 dialup ISP deals that is common place today outside of AOL, MSN and Earthlink.
What would the cable companies do if Broadband (totally legit) media took off with consumers, and people started really USING the bandwidth that is given to them? They'd start restricting just like their doing with Kazaa and other p2p's now. Same thing different usage.
I don't understand why they can't just cap their customers to X kbps and make sure everybody can reach that max and be done with it. At least then you have your limit, and you can utilize all of the bandwidth that is given to you.
I have Adelphia cable, and I use it well. However i am capped at around 60kbp or so, but every so often i can reach up to 90kbps to 120kbps depending on the time of day, in my case it's after midnight to the wee hours of the morning.
I haven't been sent any letters or anything to indicate that i'm a "bandwidth hog" (thank god) but I think differnet cable companies have different setups and polices.
Cable broadband I don't think has reached the commodity status yet. But I really dislike the "pay per meg/kbps" model.
I'd pay for the "a limit and all i can eat within that limit" model though. Just like dialup and the 19.95 deal, just more bandwidth and more money. None of those weird ass restricitons. I think that's what i'm getting now, at least until i'm notified and told otherwise.
I don't think I make much sense, but maybe i can make some change.
My mom's was the same way. Sitting her down in front of a computer was pretty hard at first. She's a pretty smart woman it's just something about a computer in her mind seems complicated and delicate to her.
personally I wouldn't recommend Linux for any mom who is like this. Now, if your mom is cool at running windows and various apps without bugging you every five minutes for something, then she may take the transition to Linux well.
Though my mom isn't as afraid of computers as she used to be. Mainly because she works as a phone operator who takes catalog orders as well as customer service. She uses a windows workstation for those things.
That, and we also got a "family computer" for my bro, mom and dad. So every once in a while i'll see her on it, playing around online and with card games. I told her its okay to explore different options and buttons. It's a neat thing to see, despite it isn't linux, she's still using a computer. Which kind of makes me proud.
My point is, when you do have a parient like this it will take time for them to shed their preconceptions about computers. My mom always thought she'd break it, that was her biggest fear at first. But give her time and work with something more easier to use for a newbie. Such as a Mac, or windows OS. Let her get acustomed to for a while and when she's decent at using it, then try linux, when she's ready.
I really pitty the deaf-mutes...to think everyday of their lives they are listening to copyrighted silence without paying for it, and reproduce it without permission.
This article seems to suggest that older operating systems are better because hackers tend to shoot for the lastest and greatest, and find weaknesses in them instead.
So what happens if there are alot of webservers, etc out there who run obsolete software for this very reason? Hackers don't exploit a particular OS, webserver, etc just because it's new, they also do it because that particular flavor is popular as well.
Even if the software is old by today's standards, rest assured, as long as it's running on alot of servers and PCs, it'll still get attacked.
On another note, I agree with the aspect that when a particular OS/software is out in the "wild" for a long time, it gets scoured for weaknesses and gets patched accordingly. Eventually the OS/software becomes robust and secure over time. In the end it's no so much that it's new, but that its strong and secure. And that's what matters the most.
Asking Microsoft to embrace open source is like asking Linux developers to abandon the GNU License.
You have two distinct OS developers which fundimentally contrast on on the issues of proprietary and open.
Linux/GNU: You give and get back, it's a two way system when it comes to development. You can be a smart 14 year old or a retired software developer and still make your small contribution for the betterment of the whole community. You can modify the software any way you see fit, but must disclose your source code, and you have to give credit where credit is due, etc.
-- It's ideally the "better" system when it comes to end users and those who code for open source. You give, you get back. It's free to the point of the actual product, the software itself, which makes it more appealing to people.
To my understanding, (if i'm wrong then by all means correct me!) all the commercial distros of linux make their money on tech support, hardware (if any), packaging and distribution of the product.
Microsoft/proprietary: You spend a considerable amount of money for top notch developers. You spend money for R&D, You hold patnents for the works that you create, because if you don't another competitor who is also under the same business model will eat into your bottom line.
-- They keep their prized code close to their chest because it's they own and in a dog-eat-dog world of business this is the golden rule if you want to survive under this model. They need to recoup costs of the development of their works, and at the same time generate profit so they can continue to provide better software for their customers.
Each side has their own unique benifits. Linux/GNU's gives more freedom to developers, end users, and hobbyists, which inspires them to build on the existing product. Made for the people, by the people.
Microsoft/proprietary: The good ones make a lot of revenue. They provide a product that they feel the public wants. They judge their customers needs by how well a given product sells, and what they ask for. They give the people what they need to do to get the job done. Maybe not efficiently, maybe not down to the hardcore ethics of the computer science ideal, but they do offer a variety of good solid products.
What hurts Linux/GNU is that your core product is free and that clashes hard in a capitalist society, where money makes the world go 'round. Thus reducing your popularity among the mainstream, in market share, and revenue to make it all happen.
What hurts Microsoft in particular, is that they don't have the same level of intimacy with their customers like the Linux/GNU market has. They don't offer the level of freedom that more and more end users and developers want. They are utterly ruthless when it comes to their product, and their customers at times. You can justify this as defending what is their own, or as a bully who doesn't know what flexible means.
Linux/GNU and Microsoft/proprietary have their own unique weakneses and strengths, it just depends on where you stand on the issue, and what direction you look in.
Personally, I use Windows for certian things, and I use Linux for certian things. As an end user would. Drawing on the stregths of both products. I have a choice without having to choose. Why Should I limit myself to one, when I can have both?
Ultimately, they both provide value. If their exicution, business model, and character goes afloul with your own then so be it, it's okay. But you shouldn't limit yourself just because of it either.
People have choices, lets keep it that way and expand upon it. For the sake of everyone involved.
------- Disclaimer:
The above posting may not be technically accruate, nor do i claim it to be wholeheartedly. If any error was made that doesn't mean my intentions aren't good.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
Technically it isn't illegal, as the legislation to make it so hasn't gotten though congress yet.
Then you have the question of what constitutes as life. At conception or at birth? If science can declare a one celled organism as life, then obviously embryos should be considered life as well, right up to the point of conception --- thinking logically here.
Definition Of Life As Determined By Science:
1. Shows evidence of growth and replication - embryos grow, and it's cells replocate...(CHECK)
2. Shows evidence of purposeful energy transfer...(CHECK)
3. Responds to stimuli...(CHECK)
4. Acts in such a way as to ensure self-preservation...(CHECK)
5. Is significantly different from the surrounding environment...(CHECK)
You don't need to be a religous right-winger to believe that enbryos and point-of-conception cells is life, a lifeform.
I'm very indifferent about this topic, and i'm sure there are others that feel the same way as well. There is enormous potential for stem cell research which could pave the way for cures and treatments. On the other hand, looking further down the road, could you imagine embryo farms of yet-to-be-born humans being harvested for parts?
The potental children of tomarrow being dissected and harvested to heal the people of today?
*shrugs* It's a tough decision to make because a few of my relitives died of cancer, heart attack and numerious others, and if there was cures/treatments for them i'm sure they'd make good use of that, As would I if i were in that situation.
On the other hand, stem cell research isn't the end-all for cures and treatments. It's just one path amongst others.
-- A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
You don't have to be a *nix advocate to hate microsoft.
There was a new dawning today at my house. My dad asked me "is there any other type of program besides Windows?, why does every person i know run windows for?"
It hard to explain to someone like this and be totally non-biased. He regularly complains about crashes, why things just stop working...i've become somewhat of a built-in system admin for him.
As far as the editor's comments on news stories, i agree with you. Slashdot should just post submissions they think are worthwhile to post and be done with it. Tacking their own biased opinions at the bottom really makes the editors of slashdot look unprofessional.
Not only that, but it turns a good news story into something of a mockary. I will be willing to wager that not everyone on here thinks like everyone else. Not everyone hates microsoft. Not everyone loves linux.
How hard is it to post a story with a tacked on insult or blessing??
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
At the end of it's lifecycle, you still have a something to convert into a PC. Which I think accounts for at least some of the sales of the X-Box sold.
"Another challenge may arise in household geography. In most homes, the video-game console is located in the living room, where the television set is -- nowhere near the high-speed Internet connection in the den. That assumes, of course that the den has a high-speed connection."
Our cable modem is in my room and piped to the family PC across the house by carefully laid RJ-45. And 802.11 wireless streamed upstairs. True some people who get broadband keep it hooked up to one PC in one room. But for $50-$60 a month, that seems like a big waste. Especially when you got more than one person in your house. Even more so when you have more than one PC, which seems to be a growing trend.
I *like* online gaming. What they should do is merge the PC/Mac online gaming with console online gaming and support them both under one roof. Why build up a whole online infostructure for a particular console or just for PCs?
Probably one of the reasons it isn't happening yet is because it takes some serious cash to put that type of system in place, and to make a good return investment you need alot of members to make the venture worthwhile.
I don't think this will happen with a console spacific or console only infostructure, there needs to be more games released for each platform (PC, Mac, and consoles), that gives you a more diverse base so your not relying on one particular platform for revenue.
Sadly enough I think Microsoft could very well pull this off. They got the cash and steamroller stamina to make it happen.
It seems like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft each want to do their own thing when it comes to online gaming. Which reinforces competition - a good thing. But on the other hand an online serivce that is platform blind offers more players to compete with and has a better chance of long term survival IMHO.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
I'm no fan of MS but no one will deby that the Xbox has the best graphics of the current crop of consoles...
Eh, best graphics? Don't get me wrong, hardware wise the x-Box is technically superior to it's competition but what good is hardware when you don't make the most of it?
I saw MSR, er...Metropolis..er..that fancy racing game..(I forget what they renamed it to).. Visually I could not tell hardly any difference then what I saw on the Dreamcast. I've also seen PS2 games in action, I don't see much of a difference really. Their both quite good.
....and thats what gamers go for
Gamers go for the games man. the GAMES, that's why they call them gamers you know? Every so often you'll find a game that draws you into it like a bottomless blackhole. You become addicted and glued to it like it was an extra body limb.
Its the gameplay, how it's laid out, the challange, the strategy, the controls, the fun factor. And if it has great replayability, rest assured you'll always have fun coming back to it even when the console is dead. That's what makes a game a great game. That's what true hardcore gamers are about.
Even if a game had outstanding and breathtaking graphics, it doesn't mean jack shit if the game sucks by design. Sometimes game developers get so cought up in trying to make their games look as pretty as possible, that the actual game starts to suffer.
Don't get me wrong, I love pretty and outstanding graphics too. Graphics are the hook. The sinker is the game itself. But in the long run, it's the game itself that determines its worth to you, not the graphics.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
I have a Pent133 IBM 760E laptop (32meg RAM/1GB HDD) and to put MSOffice on here is horrible, believe me i tried.
Clocking in at 4.3 megs for the windows version, AbiWord is TINY! Upon installing it the license agreement came up:
"The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users"
I know most open source users find this run-of-the-mill, but i'm a stright up windows guy. Not only was reading the license enjoyable but it was very easy to read. (note to myself: why am I not running GNU software more often??*** see below)
Abiword is FAST FAST FAST. I've used Sun's OpenOffice a couple of times but I didn't really care for it all that much. Abiword's layout is clean and neat as well. I find it painfully distracting to see a billon icons on the top toolbar on some word processing apps. This is a plus for me at least.
I also like how AbiWord handles multiple instances of documents. A totally seperate window for each document. I use notepad for word processing (don't laugh!) so i'm used to this. From time to time i also use Word 2000 and I don't really care for the window behind a window layout of it at all.
Needless to say for 4.3 megs is a very efficient program that's fast, easy to use, and free.
---
*** - (any one know of a easy to use linux distro for an IBM pent 133 Thinkpad 760E 32meg ram/1gb hdd and a 3com etherlink III card?
i'd like to migrate and use X, my friend has it on his boxen and I like using it and I'd like to give it a spin, hardware specs allowing. I used caldara and corel but eh. It wasn't pretty, and i really don't know what i'm doing when it comes to getting under the hood. Any ideas, suggestions, anything are/is appreaciated!)
We're all thieves in content providers' eyes. The best way to put that thought into motion is to strike at any technology, reguardless of it's non-infringing uses, and nail it to the cross and say "Look there's proof!"
How is this different than those VCRs with a built in commercial-skipping feature? My guess is that the VCR is an analog medium. Kinda makes sense when you think about it.
When you have content in perfect digital quality, it makes it hard to improve on perfect, and they know this. So what do the content owners do? That's right, slam any piece of technology that can: copy, reproduce, and store digital content of any kind.
In their eyes we're stealing from them because that's how TV Broadcasters make their money. They rent TV airtime space to advertisers and get a kickback which finances their operations. I can understand this. Suppose if everyone in the US for starters, all had PVR's and know how to use them? What then? How would they continue to exist? I definately can see that.
Their needs to be a balance here. Why not revert back to the business model of: "you pay x amount for ad free tv" AND STICK TO THE DAMN MODEL. If they did that for cable when it first came out, this would not be an issue.
Kinda funny to see how shit like that comes back back to bite them in the ass.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
Slashdot Mirror
In Other News:
:)
WinMX has included ogg as one of it's search options in their newest client v3.3. Their website is devoid of update changes, but I haven't seen it prior to the release of v3.3. (as far as memory serves at least.)
As far as format of Choice(TM), i still perfer mp3s over ogg. I backed up a chunk (109 cds) of my cd collection into 320k mp3s and that was a *bitch* even with automatic cddb labeling. I recently purchased a portable mp3/cd player as well. There are a good number of car mp3 players as well, which extends the convenience of the format, not to mention the abundance of mp3 home stereo solutions.
MP3 is a proprietary format yes, but it isn't restrictive. John Q doesn't need the source code for the format, he just likes the fact that the mp3 format gives him lots of options when it comes to where he listens to his music.
Ogg definately has potential, it seems like they got the format down pretty nicely. Its the hardware-player area that they need to spend some time focusing on to really be a challange to the mp3 format. And I wish them luck because to me, it's nothing but choice, and choice is good.
As far as the name itself, i still find it a bit "weird" speaking the name. "Ogg", i mean that's the kind of noise i make when i'm sick
I'm not much into quake or doom like i was a few years back, but I do read /. alot. First thing that came to mind, was "humm, i remember seeing this before."
:)
Personally, I don't know how slashdot is operated, but there should be some sort of system setup that prevents so much duplicate stories. I'm no programmer, but i'm sure something like that can't be that hard.
*shurgs* It's not like dupe stories pisses me off, it the idea that another "fresh" story could be in its place. Everytime i see a duplicate i feel like i'm missing out on a Good StoryTM because of it.
I'm sure they care who sees the videos, if not then they wouldn't be offering them at all.
I took the time to explore the site, appariently it's a one-man operation. Which is pretty impressive given the quality of the site. I'd encourge donations to keep him afloat, as he politely asked for on his main page.
So case in point: He cares enough to post them for the public to look at. So he doesn't put them up in Quicktime, .MPG, .ASF, or whatever flavor of encoding *YOU* prefer. At least he did it.
It seems like he was trying to cater to low-bandwidth dial-up users. And this is a good thing to me (i'm on cable) because there are alot of people still on dialup, and i know how it feels when i was on dialup.
It is *logical* for the webmaster. It saves him time to get the commercials in various formats, it saves him bandwidth, while at the same time providing something that many consider interesting.
I'm not trying to rag here, but really it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
EXACTLY! God, so it isn't me! I didn't have realplayer on my system in the den so i figured the commercials were worth getting the player (and they were :) )
:)
spent about 5 minutes scanning Real's download
page trying to find something other than RealOne, nope, didn't find Realplayer 8. Went to www.download.com, looked up realplayer 8, found it, clicked the download link..AGGGHHH! The SAME RealOne splattered page comes up again that i just viewed just a moment ago.
Eventually I found it too, but thanks for the link nonetheless.
Getting a piece of "free" software shouldn't be so hard to find. Under different circumstances i'd attribute it to an easter egg hunt.
Well, like the article said: there's been reports that Bartelsmann was gonna cut Napster out of their agenda due to bottomline managment, even after they aquired it. So it really doesn't matter if napster gets sold off or just dies really, pretty much the same outcome.
/rant
:)
P2P music swapping and the labels opposition to it is starting to become a migrane that doesn't seem to go away for both sides.
All you hear is: "p2p music sharing should be legal!" and "we need to curtail theft of copyrighted works online!" Why the hell is this not being resolved in some fashion that makes both sides relitively happy? Is it that HARD?
One thing that comes to mind when i read articles like this is that there seems to be no effort put into compromising.
Say for example, Company A sells laptops. Company A wants to make money selling laptops. But Company A doesn't want to go out of business.
Logically, Company A should sell laptops at an affordable price to consumers and compete with other vendors to make sure that happens. This way Company A will generate revenue and NOT go out of business. The company makes money, and consumers are happy they got a good deal on a laptop.
How does this relate to the labels? P2P music sharing is undercutting the whole music industry.
"If you can get it for free, why pay for it?" is a often used statement I hear alot. But if you rephrase it to: "if you can get a product of near equal value from somewhere else for free, why pay for it?" you start to get the realization that the music labels should be adding more value to their products. Weither it'd be in Compact Disc form or online music downloads.
To me, the RIAA's view on this is: "If we give an inch, they'll take a mile, we can't let this happen!" and to them I say, HEY! they're ALREADY taking that mile, because your too tight to go the distance and offer more REASONS to purchase music!
What goes around comes around, treat all your consumers as thieves, and they'll act like thieves. It may be wrong legally/morally to download a song without paying for it, but it is also unmoral/sometimes illegal to treat your customers like villans.
So now we have an ugly stand-off between the consumers and the providers. Is this really what they want?
We (as in honest consumers) don't ask for that much really. Affordable, competitive prices on products that offer us value. Most companies do this, why isn't the RIAA looking into it too?
The whole topic makes my head hurt
I'm GLAD someone is taking up the challenge to make a BBS documentary, the story needs to be told.
:)
In the summer of 1990 at the age of 10, I remember seeing a local BBS listing in the paper which inspired me to work as a paperboy with my older brother (so I could get a cut of the $), and save up for a computer and try the BBS's out.
Being raised on a TI-99/4a, and before the internet was popular around here, (sure it was in my school, but only on two computers with heavy restrictions), I had no idea of what I was getting myself into, and that was the FUN part! It was all about curiousity at first.
After saving up around $120.00, I saw an ad for a complete IBM XT system w/ CGA monitor, which at the time, and being 10 years old, I thought was a good deal. I also picked up a 2400 baud modem at my local electronics store which came with Qmodem.
So I sat down with my newspaper clipping of local boards and their numbers in front of my very own computer, I dialed...and connected.
Countless nights and weekends I was glued to the computer, dialing up, playing TW2002, and L.O.R.D. and checking all the different BBS's out. My first MajorBBS was "The Playground" Which had 4 lines at the time, but soon expanded to 8 LINES, needless to say i was in heaven. Chatting up the locals on the board what great fun, as well as Tradewars with 8 real-time local users.
Oh god the hours i spent on that system meeting people, talking, gaming, file downloading/uploading, message reading/writing. I guess i'm not the first to say this, but FIDOnet was a blast!
I met quite a number of people though BBS's, which I may have never otherwise met. During that time I became the owner of a local BBS though a hardware/software system purchase, met my first girlfriend at a BBS meet (which lasted for about a year, but being 13 at the time, it was very fun), and ran my own board for the better part of a year on a 486 that I got when i turned 15. Around 1995 and on the BBS scene started to die, and eventually became non-existent in my area by 1996. There was a gap for a while until we got internet access at home, then I found another, BIGGER world to explore. Nothing can truely replace or replicate the BBS times though, what I miss the most was the local community, and the thrill of being a part of it.
The fondest memories I have are playing Duke Nukem on a MajorBBS with 8 people on a board called DOGS. (Dave's Online Gaming Service)...God that was great!
As I sit here, 22 years old now, It seems like a faded memory. Yeah, i'm still young, but damn does this make me feel old.
Before I drown in my own memories, My question for Jason is: When your project is finished, how will you get it out to the people who want to see the fruits of your labor? Free or to pay for? I have no problem in paying for it, Just thought I'd ask.
Downloadable episodes of your documentary would be nice, but you'd need some good hosting for that.
Another alternative comes to mind, VHS tapes, or better yet a DVD.
Whatever's best for you. I'm really excited to see the finished product and support it wholeheartedly.
My all time favorite soft drink would have to be: CHERRY COKE, hands down. I was never a big fan of coke, nor do i really care for the flavor cherry in most things. But in combonation, Cherry Coke really brightens up my day. :)
Surge is around still in the lower Pennsylvania area. I love this soda too. Although it depends on what country you live in etc. I'm not sure.
I kind of feel sorry for ForensicTec. True, they did technically break the law, but I don't believe they had any crinimal intent, otherwise I doubt they would have went public about it.
On the other hand, if the Army didn't go after them, then that would send the wrong message to the public too.
ForensicTec made it painfully clear that our government should get off their asses and really impliment stronger security on their systems.
I mean damn, anyone with free software tools and a basic understanding of how to hack could have done this. The Army and other affected government facilities should be so lucky that ForensicTec was just curious, if it were another country doing this for profiling/spying/mounting an attack/sabotage, they'd be up shit creek without a paddle.
It's proof enough for me that the U.S. is more at risk then I previously thought. The amount of taxes taken each year from every citizen is alot, at least they could do is take the time to make sure their password isnt...um.."password" among other things.
I love my country, but it's embarassing to watch it do some of the things it does.
I really pitty the poor folks down in Palm Beach, first they get embarressed to hell and back in the 2000 presidental elections, now the taxpayers pay for machines that can't be audited without voiding the warrenty? WTF?
First off, the article doesn't say how the votes on these machines are counted. I mean, it has to spit out results somehow and somewhere.
Second, these machines were developed by a corp. Now-a-days when scandels are a dime a dozen, do we really need MORE CORPERATIONS digging their hands into politcs?
Third, These are digitalized machines. They have the potential to be hacked, crash, and lose data.
And since it's digital that means all three can happen at once or in any combination. I mean yeah it does have a coolness factor, but simplicity is key. It needs to be something that just *works*
Hey, i dunno bout those guys but i can *still* vote with our local lever machine even when the power is out.
If our lever-machine breaks, you'd be the first to know when you can't pull the lever down. Plus, even if it mechanically breaks, you still will always have the votes that have been cast inside prior to the breakage. And if you ever saw one, their monsterous and built like tanks.
If your gonna go digital with voting machines, do it RIGHT. Give the elderly something tangable that assures them that their vote counted, such as a watermarked printout. I mean their gonna expect this now since alot of floridians were so unsure if their votes counted under the old system.
They can't even get an independent review of the voting system's software and security features.
I'd like to know who's bright idea it was to purchase machines with these kind of restuctions and decided to buy them anyway....Oh the the conspiracy theroies one can weave.
Now floridians are going to see every tom, dick, and hairy who loses an election, bitching because the system was flawed, broken, malfunctioned..lets have a recount...a re-re-count, what's that? a hanging system? On to the supreme court!
If I were the people who had to use this machine, i'd demand my representives to get a refund and find a system that's more open. flexable and tailored to the people's choices and expectations.
But I guess that would require their local government listening to *them* instead of *cough*COMPANIES*cough*
I hope they get on the ball with this.
I may not make much sense, but maybe I can make some change.
Cable companies complain that power users use too much bandwidth and thus drowns out normal to light users. So they impose restrictions such as this to curtail it.
Cable companies also said that cable itself would be free of commericals, however it's all i see now-a-days on the tv. Even premium channels like HBO et al promised in their beginnings that it would be commerical free. But even they have commercials. I mean, that was one of the big incentives to pay that premium price.
It wouldn't matter if its a handful of power-users who use kazaa or any other p2p, or those power-users who utilize cable modems for streaming media, such as music and video, which is WHY BROADBAND WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SO GOOD AT.
Thing is people, they designed a system, and promised you all you can eat for a flat fee per month. Around here at least it wasn't $x.xx per MEG/kbps, it was just like the 19.95 dialup ISP deals that is common place today outside of AOL, MSN and Earthlink.
What would the cable companies do if Broadband (totally legit) media took off with consumers, and people started really USING the bandwidth that is given to them? They'd start restricting just like their doing with Kazaa and other p2p's now. Same thing different usage.
I don't understand why they can't just cap their customers to X kbps and make sure everybody can reach that max and be done with it. At least then you have your limit, and you can utilize all of the bandwidth that is given to you.
I have Adelphia cable, and I use it well. However i am capped at around 60kbp or so, but every so often i can reach up to 90kbps to 120kbps depending on the time of day, in my case it's after midnight to the wee hours of the morning.
I haven't been sent any letters or anything to indicate that i'm a "bandwidth hog" (thank god) but I think differnet cable companies have different setups and polices.
Cable broadband I don't think has reached the commodity status yet. But I really dislike the "pay per meg/kbps" model.
I'd pay for the "a limit and all i can eat within that limit" model though. Just like dialup and the 19.95 deal, just more bandwidth and more money. None of those weird ass restricitons. I think that's what i'm getting now, at least until i'm notified and told otherwise.
I don't think I make much sense, but maybe i can make some change.
My mom's was the same way. Sitting her down in front of a computer was pretty hard at first. She's a pretty smart woman it's just something about a computer in her mind seems complicated and delicate to her.
personally I wouldn't recommend Linux for any mom who is like this. Now, if your mom is cool at running windows and various apps without bugging you every five minutes for something, then she may take the transition to Linux well.
Though my mom isn't as afraid of computers as she used to be. Mainly because she works as a phone operator who takes catalog orders as well as customer service. She uses a windows workstation for those things.
That, and we also got a "family computer" for my bro, mom and dad. So every once in a while i'll see her on it, playing around online and with card games. I told her its okay to explore different options and buttons. It's a neat thing to see, despite it isn't linux, she's still using a computer. Which kind of makes me proud.
My point is, when you do have a parient like this it will take time for them to shed their preconceptions about computers. My mom always thought she'd break it, that was her biggest fear at first. But give her time and work with something more easier to use for a newbie.
Such as a Mac, or windows OS. Let her get acustomed to for a while and when she's decent at using it, then try linux, when she's ready.
I really pitty the deaf-mutes...to think everyday of their lives they are listening to copyrighted silence without paying for it, and reproduce it without permission.
The horror.
This article seems to suggest that older operating systems are better because hackers tend to shoot for the lastest and greatest, and find weaknesses in them instead.
So what happens if there are alot of webservers, etc out there who run obsolete software for this very reason? Hackers don't exploit a particular OS, webserver, etc just because it's new, they also do it because that particular flavor is popular as well.
Even if the software is old by today's standards, rest assured, as long as it's running on alot of servers and PCs, it'll still get attacked.
On another note, I agree with the aspect that when a particular OS/software is out in the "wild" for a long time, it gets scoured for weaknesses and gets patched accordingly. Eventually the OS/software becomes robust and secure over time. In the end it's no so much that it's new, but that its strong and secure. And that's what matters the most.
Asking Microsoft to embrace open source is like asking Linux developers to abandon the GNU License.
You have two distinct OS developers which fundimentally contrast on on the issues of proprietary and open.
Linux/GNU: You give and get back, it's a two way system when it comes to development. You can be a smart 14 year old or a retired software developer and still make your small contribution for the betterment of the whole community. You can modify the software any way you see fit, but must disclose your source code, and you have to give credit where credit is due, etc.
-- It's ideally the "better" system when it comes to end users and those who code for open source. You give, you get back. It's free to the point of the actual product, the software itself, which makes it more appealing to people.
To my understanding, (if i'm wrong then by all means correct me!) all the commercial distros of linux make their money on tech support, hardware (if any), packaging and distribution of the product.
Microsoft/proprietary: You spend a considerable amount of money for top notch developers. You spend money for R&D, You hold patnents for the works that you create, because if you don't another competitor who is also under the same business model will eat into your bottom line.
-- They keep their prized code close to their chest because it's they own and in a dog-eat-dog world of business this is the golden rule if you want to survive under this model. They need to recoup costs of the development of their works, and at the same time generate profit so they can continue to provide better software for their customers.
Each side has their own unique benifits. Linux/GNU's gives more freedom to developers, end users, and hobbyists, which inspires them to build on the existing product. Made for the people, by the people.
Microsoft/proprietary: The good ones make a lot of revenue. They provide a product that they feel the public wants. They judge their customers needs by how well a given product sells, and what they ask for. They give the people what they need to do to get the job done. Maybe not efficiently, maybe not down to the hardcore ethics of the computer science ideal, but they do offer a variety of good solid products.
What hurts Linux/GNU is that your core product is free and that clashes hard in a capitalist society, where money makes the world go 'round. Thus reducing your popularity among the mainstream, in market share, and revenue to make it all happen.
What hurts Microsoft in particular, is that they don't have the same level of intimacy with their customers like the Linux/GNU market has. They don't offer the level of freedom that more and more end users and developers want. They are utterly ruthless when it comes to their product, and their customers at times. You can justify this as defending what is their own, or as a bully who doesn't know what flexible means.
Linux/GNU and Microsoft/proprietary have their own unique weakneses and strengths, it just depends on where you stand on the issue, and what direction you look in.
Personally, I use Windows for certian things, and I use Linux for certian things. As an end user would. Drawing on the stregths of both products. I have a choice without having to choose. Why Should I limit myself to one, when I can have both?
Ultimately, they both provide value. If their exicution, business model, and character goes afloul with your own then so be it, it's okay. But you shouldn't limit yourself just because of it either.
People have choices, lets keep it that way and expand upon it. For the sake of everyone involved.
-------
Disclaimer:
The above posting may not be technically accruate, nor do i claim it to be wholeheartedly.
If any error was made that doesn't mean my intentions aren't good.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
Technically it isn't illegal, as the legislation to make it so hasn't gotten though congress yet.
Then you have the question of what constitutes as life. At conception or at birth? If science can declare a one celled organism as life, then obviously embryos should be considered life as well, right up to the point of conception --- thinking logically here.
Definition Of Life As Determined By Science:
1. Shows evidence of growth and replication - embryos grow, and it's cells replocate...(CHECK)
2. Shows evidence of purposeful energy transfer...(CHECK)
3. Responds to stimuli...(CHECK)
4. Acts in such a way as to ensure self-preservation...(CHECK)
5. Is significantly different from the surrounding environment...(CHECK)
You don't need to be a religous right-winger to believe that enbryos and point-of-conception cells is life, a lifeform.
I'm very indifferent about this topic, and i'm sure there are others that feel the same way as well. There is enormous potential for stem cell research which could pave the way for cures and treatments. On the other hand, looking further down the road, could you imagine embryo farms of yet-to-be-born humans being harvested for parts?
The potental children of tomarrow being dissected and harvested to heal the people of today?
*shrugs* It's a tough decision to make because a few of my relitives died of cancer, heart attack and numerious others, and if there was cures/treatments for them i'm sure they'd make good use of that, As would I if i were in that situation.
On the other hand, stem cell research isn't the end-all for cures and treatments. It's just one path amongst others.
-- A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
For those who may not know, Meshell Ndegeocello is also pretty well known for her duet with John Mellencamp in the song "Wild Night."
At least, from the looks of it, they're heading in a better direction. if it's a 320k mp3 i'd bite for about a dollar.
However, they should make it a priority to get ahold of rare remixes, covers, etc...anything obscure and that is hard to find.
Also i know there's an acoustic version of "Wild Night" out there somewhere, this as an example would give me reason to use such a service.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
from the 3, probably 3 is my personal favorite. But the best of the Mario series, would have to be Super Mario World for the SNES.
:)
'nuff said.
You don't have to be a *nix advocate to hate microsoft.
There was a new dawning today at my house. My dad asked me "is there any other type of program besides Windows?, why does every person i know run windows for?"
It hard to explain to someone like this and be totally non-biased. He regularly complains about crashes, why things just stop working...i've become somewhat of a built-in system admin for him.
As far as the editor's comments on news stories, i agree with you. Slashdot should just post submissions they think are worthwhile to post and be done with it. Tacking their own biased opinions at the bottom really makes the editors of slashdot look unprofessional.
Not only that, but it turns a good news story into something of a mockary. I will be willing to wager that not everyone on here thinks like everyone else. Not everyone hates microsoft. Not everyone loves linux.
How hard is it to post a story with a tacked on insult or blessing??
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
At the end of it's lifecycle, you still have a something to convert into a PC. Which I think accounts for at least some of the sales of the X-Box sold.
I love how they assume this:
"Another challenge may arise in household geography. In most homes, the video-game console is located in the living room, where the television set is -- nowhere near the high-speed Internet connection in the den. That assumes, of course that the den has a high-speed connection."
Our cable modem is in my room and piped to the family PC across the house by carefully laid RJ-45. And 802.11 wireless streamed upstairs. True some people who get broadband keep it hooked up to one PC in one room. But for $50-$60 a month, that seems like a big waste. Especially when you got more than one person in your house. Even more so when you have more than one PC, which seems to be a growing trend.
I *like* online gaming. What they should do is merge the PC/Mac online gaming with console online gaming and support them both under one roof. Why build up a whole online infostructure for a particular console or just for PCs?
Probably one of the reasons it isn't happening yet is because it takes some serious cash to put that type of system in place, and to make a good return investment you need alot of members to make the venture worthwhile.
I don't think this will happen with a console spacific or console only infostructure, there needs to be more games released for each platform
(PC, Mac, and consoles), that gives you a more diverse base so your not relying on one particular platform for revenue.
Sadly enough I think Microsoft could very well pull this off. They got the cash and steamroller stamina to make it happen.
It seems like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft each want to do their own thing when it comes to online gaming. Which reinforces competition - a good thing. But on the other hand an online serivce that is platform blind offers more players to compete with and has a better chance of long term survival IMHO.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
I'm no fan of MS but no one will deby that the Xbox has the best graphics of the current crop
....and thats what gamers go for
of consoles...
Eh, best graphics? Don't get me wrong, hardware wise the x-Box is technically superior to it's competition but what good is hardware when you don't make the most of it?
I saw MSR, er...Metropolis..er..that fancy racing game..(I forget what they renamed it to).. Visually I could not tell hardly any difference then what I saw on the Dreamcast. I've also seen PS2 games in action, I don't see much of a difference really. Their both quite good.
Gamers go for the games man. the GAMES, that's why they call them gamers you know? Every so often you'll find a game that draws you into it like a bottomless blackhole. You become addicted and glued to it like it was an extra body limb.
Its the gameplay, how it's laid out, the challange, the strategy, the controls, the fun factor. And if it has great replayability, rest assured you'll always have fun coming back to it even when the console is dead. That's what makes a game a great game. That's what true hardcore gamers are about.
Even if a game had outstanding and breathtaking graphics, it doesn't mean jack shit if the game sucks by design. Sometimes game developers get so cought up in trying to make their games look as pretty as possible, that the actual game starts to suffer.
Don't get me wrong, I love pretty and outstanding graphics too. Graphics are the hook. The sinker is the game itself. But in the long run, it's the game itself that determines its worth to you, not the graphics.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
After checking, your right. I thought it was Word2000 that did this. I remember seeing that layout before though.
Thanks for pointing that out, my bad.
I have a Pent133 IBM 760E laptop (32meg RAM/1GB HDD) and to put MSOffice on here is horrible, believe me i tried.
Clocking in at 4.3 megs for the windows version, AbiWord is TINY! Upon installing it the license agreement came up:
"The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users"
I know most open source users find this run-of-the-mill, but i'm a stright up windows guy. Not only was reading the license enjoyable but it was very easy to read. (note to myself: why am I not running GNU software more often??*** see below)
Abiword is FAST FAST FAST. I've used Sun's OpenOffice a couple of times but I didn't really care for it all that much. Abiword's layout is clean and neat as well. I find it painfully distracting to see a billon icons on the top toolbar on some word processing apps. This is a plus for me at least.
I also like how AbiWord handles multiple instances of documents. A totally seperate window for each document. I use notepad for word processing (don't laugh!) so i'm used to this. From time to time i also use Word 2000 and I don't really care for the window behind a window layout of it at all.
Needless to say for 4.3 megs is a very efficient program that's fast, easy to use, and free.
---
*** - (any one know of a easy to use linux distro for an IBM pent 133 Thinkpad 760E 32meg ram/1gb hdd and a 3com etherlink III card?
i'd like to migrate and use X, my friend has it on his boxen and I like using it and I'd like to give it a spin, hardware specs allowing. I used caldara and corel but eh. It wasn't pretty, and i really don't know what i'm doing when it comes to getting under the hood. Any ideas, suggestions, anything are/is appreaciated!)
We're all thieves in content providers' eyes. The best way to put that thought into motion is to strike at any technology, reguardless of it's non-infringing uses, and nail it to the cross and say "Look there's proof!"
How is this different than those VCRs with a built in commercial-skipping feature? My guess is that the VCR is an analog medium. Kinda makes sense when you think about it.
When you have content in perfect digital quality, it makes it hard to improve on perfect, and they know this. So what do the content owners do? That's right, slam any piece of technology that can: copy, reproduce, and store digital content of any kind.
In their eyes we're stealing from them because that's how TV Broadcasters make their money. They rent TV airtime space to advertisers and get a kickback which finances their operations. I can understand this. Suppose if everyone in the US for starters, all had PVR's and know how to use them? What then? How would they continue to exist? I definately can see that.
Their needs to be a balance here. Why not revert back to the business model of: "you pay x amount for ad free tv" AND STICK TO THE DAMN MODEL. If they did that for cable when it first came out, this would not be an issue.
Kinda funny to see how shit like that comes back back to bite them in the ass.
A penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!