My understanding was that the controversial features (reading, analyzing, storing) occur with letters you receive as well as send. This means that your correspondence may end up in the pool whether you agree to the terms or not, or even if you didn't know about them. Even if you know the terms and don't send to gmail because of them, you don't know where people end up forwarding their stuff.
So it's really in everyone's common interests to critique what is appropriate for a carrier to do with its mail. Since there are more people involved in each email than the provider and the person who agreed to the terms, the market does not protect all parties in this instance.
Well, allow me to retort.
UI development is the hard part. And it's not the last step, it's the first step. In my estimation, the difference between:
software that performs function X; and
software that performs function X, with an intuitive
well-designed user interface
isn't just a little bit of extra work. It's not even twice the work. It's an entire order of magnitude more work. Developing software with a good UI requires both aptitude and a lot of hard work. Raymond acknowledges neither.
I disagree with his view that ui design is some sort of mystic, unlearnable talent, and he may take the argument to the opposite extreme, but the position that the gui problem suffers from a lack of respect is spot on. Afterthought guis look like afterthoughts.
There's a lot of "you have to do this" and "you have to target Mr. X" floating around, but I think the real breakthroughs will come as developers begin to view ui design as an interesting and substantial problem to be solved rather than a quick makeover.
The system makes a lot more sense when you start thinking about either a) putting different parts of it on different machines or b) backing it up.
You can fish through this to explore some of the ideas behind the structure. Is it perfect? No. But it's not as arbitrary as it seems at first, either.
Be-fan -- your deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you are missing something. There's no "drag and drop" involved -- zero install means zero install.
It's based on a sort of virtualized internet filesystem. Here is their example:
$ cd/uri/0install/www.gimp.org
$ ls
gimp1.2
gimp1.3
$ 0refresh
$ ls
gimp1.2
gimp1.3
gimp2.0
You never install, you just run, either by command line or some form of gui contraption. Of course, this system places a lot of faith in the upstream developers, but their website paints a far more interesting picture than the summary given here. Here, for instance, is a decent comparison with apt. Check it out.
Relative cost (Inexpensive) has nothing to do with RAID, while Independent spindles has everything to do with it -- nobody would use any kind of RAID on different partitions on the same spindle for any reason I can think of. If it's a marketing name, they got it right this time.
I just discovered this nifty site, which serves up free old Latin and Greek grammars and readers and a discussion forum where self-studiers can help each other out.
The teaching methods are ancient, but Latin and Greek are the original Grammar Nazi languages anyway, so that's part of the fun. Of course you're stuck with what the college assigns, but if you want a supplement, the Benjamin D'Ooge book they have on the site is pretty cool.
the arab culture, religion (even if Sunni are in minority in the arab world), and language still play an important role
The Italian debt to the Arabs doesn't begin to compare with the Arab cultural borrowing from the Persians, yet you make it look like the Iranians are the ones in debt. You rant about the former case, you salt the wound in the latter.
The point is that in a pontificating lecture on cultural sensitivity, you trod over Iranian identity hot-button issues like a bull in a china shop. That's what it has to do with your first post.
Had you shown more tolerance towards other people's shortcomings in their understanding of the Arabs, I'm sure most others would have returned the favor with your own gaffes.
Second, Persians speak Parsi/Farsi/Persian, however you want to call it -- not Arabic. Yes, it's been altered by Arab colonizers, but it's still Persian.
Finally, ask some Persians about where the high culture like art, architecture and poetry of the Arab Empire come from.
I am fucking sick of every damn thing being a great opportunity for open source, I love open source idea, but damn, it sends chills down my spine when yall mention it non stop
User number 34052 is just noticing this?
Pretty good idea about the cereal boxes, by the way.
DaVinci Code? Nah. The book is a lot less interesting if you're already familiar with the source material. The cool twists and conspiracies are directly lifted from the earlier works of eminent fake historians and simply repackaged in a cheesy cardboard thriller plot.
Which kind of irritated me. When I read Holy Blood, Holy Grail, the first thing I thought was "Damn, this stuff would have made a great cheesy cardboard thriller. Too bad these guys used the material first." Then some guy goes and rewrites it as one and makes a mint. Grrr. Shamelessness pays.
Wasn't that in response to calling "french fries" "freedom fries"?
You know, given the politics surrounding that war, the righteous thing for Americans to do would have been to start referring to french fries as "chips"...;)
Yes, a developer workstation is a "desktop" if it's their main business
Agreed, but I don't think you have to rationalize what qualifies as a "desktop" in that way. This move puts the all flaws of the linux desktop in front of 8,000 people... who can fix them. Think of the bonanza for desktop linux projects if just 1% of these developers started submitting patches.
For an Open Source project, being put on 8,000 office worker desks would certainly be a sign of maturity and acceptance. Getting your project in front of 8,000 qualified developers is a gold mine.
Couldn't agree more about HP's destructive anti-feature craze. It's even hurt Galeon. Where did "Save Session" go? Where did "File Bookmark" go? I use Gnome because I find KDE too circus (cirKus?) -like, but man, they've got to leave *some* features in.
Some other silliness:
No float on top feature to Metacity? Too complicated?
Ugly list of useless "put on workspace" choices (also Metacity) because nested listing is "unintuitive"?
New GTK file-save box -- much-needed upgrade but no way to access.(dot)files? Sure, it's much cleaner when they're hidden, but it meant I had to type in a filename five levels deep just to point my program to it.
And you said it about Epiphany. I've seen more features on a kiosk.
I hope the galeon people take getting dropped as a liberation rather than a punishment. Let them get back to making a great browser rather than trying to conform to someone's warped interpretation of monkey-computer interface guidelines.
Large companies sometimes like to set up distribution on a region-by-region basis, with no turf overlap in "authorized resellers". You sometimes see this in car commercials, where a certain deal is "for New Jersey residents only" or some such thing.
From the manufacturer's point of view, it helps them sign up a distributer in country X who can provide local service and market insight without worrying about being undercut by cheaper distributers from other regions. Add in the hassles that others have mentioned to the hassle of tracking which of your products you are allowed to ship where and you can see why a lot of retailers just don't bother.
Also, it has nothing to do with being "US-centric". I think the guy is running into it from that angle because he's from the US and probably visits a lot of American sites. I've had the same trouble when trying Japanese products from Japan.
whois 66.220.17.45 shows it's owned by C2 Media, the minds behind lop, as your reference points out.
I hope those NIPC guys are enjoying a good laugh, but it would have been nice of them to tell poor, earnest HeelToe what's going on. It seemed pretty clever of the guy to figure out that his dns had been redirected, why didn't he just look up the registration? Of course that same option didn't stop 50 posts of "Government Bad", but it wasn't their machine, either.
Well, at least now the FBI knows HeelToe has installed pr0nsearch.exe. I feel safer already.
Unfortunately, the MD5 checking won't lead us to the core of SCO's complaints. After reading this inteview, it seems that they claim IP rights to all licensed derivatives of SysV, not just their "ancient" codebase.
That is, they say their license agreements w/ IBM, Sun, etc. give them control over the bits in AIX, Solaris, etc. that were developed by the licensee. So it seems that if IBM develops a special memory locking scheme for AIX then shares it with linux, SCO still claims a violation even though they played no part in developing the code.
Here is the relevant comment:
When we take a top-tier view of the amount of code showing up inside of Linux today that is either directly related to our Unix System 5 that we directly own or is related to one of our flavors of Unix that we have derivative works rights over--we don't necessarily own those flavors, but we have control rights over how that information gets disseminated--the amount is substantial. We're not talking about just lines of code; we're talking about entire programs. We're talking about hundred of thousands of lines of code.
Where people get a little confused is when they think of SCO Unix as just the Unix that runs the cash register at McDonalds. We think of this as a tree. We have the tree trunk, with Unix System 5 running right down the middle of the trunk. That is our core ownership position on Unix.
Off the tree trunk, you have a number of branches, and these are the various flavors of Unix. HP-UX, IBM's AIX, Sun Solaris, Fujitsu, NEC--there are a number of flavors out there. SCO has a couple of flavors, too, called OpenServer and UnixWare. But don't confuse the branches with the trunk. The System 5 source code, that is really the area that gives us incredible rights, because it includes the control rights on the derivative works that branch off from that trunk.
And they say the GPL is viral!
Now I have no idea if this claim is true, if it's in the contract or if it's enforceable, but it make SCO's claims seem a little less bizarre.
Holy Jebus! No wonder the developers are pissed off. It makes it sound like IBM took Linus' science fair project and turned it into an enterprise-class OS.
As long as the Linux development process remained uncoordinated and random, it posed little or no threat to SCO, or to other UNIX vendors...
It's not just a suit against IBM, but a major flame of the kernel developers as well. Has IBM committed *that* much code? I doubt it. Thanks for posting the link -- I didn't even know it was available. I'm surprised someone at SCO hasn't hidden it in shame.
Slashdot Mirror
don't use Gmail! It's really that simple,
My understanding was that the controversial features (reading, analyzing, storing) occur with letters you receive as well as send. This means that your correspondence may end up in the pool whether you agree to the terms or not, or even if you didn't know about them. Even if you know the terms and don't send to gmail because of them, you don't know where people end up forwarding their stuff.
So it's really in everyone's common interests to critique what is appropriate for a carrier to do with its mail. Since there are more people involved in each email than the provider and the person who agreed to the terms, the market does not protect all parties in this instance.
I think in the future GWBush will be remembered as alot of terrible things, one of which will be "the man who made the euro."
As if Britain didn't have enough reasons to hate him.
This is more akin to how the US has berated china over keeping its currency artifically low against the Dollar, while doing the same thing to Europe.
Lol.
Yes, it's another clever U.S. strategy of creating massive debt, political instability and dodgy markets to drive the dollar down vs. the euro.
Do you see any fundamental reason to be long dollars right now? No? Then why do you need a conspiracy to explain it?
Here
Basically a critique of ESR's article. Key quote:
I disagree with his view that ui design is some sort of mystic, unlearnable talent, and he may take the argument to the opposite extreme, but the position that the gui problem suffers from a lack of respect is spot on. Afterthought guis look like afterthoughts.
There's a lot of "you have to do this" and "you have to target Mr. X" floating around, but I think the real breakthroughs will come as developers begin to view ui design as an interesting and substantial problem to be solved rather than a quick makeover.
The latter.
The system makes a lot more sense when you start thinking about either a) putting different parts of it on different machines or b) backing it up.
You can fish through this to explore some of the ideas behind the structure. Is it perfect? No. But it's not as arbitrary as it seems at first, either.
Be-fan -- your deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you are missing something. There's no "drag and drop" involved -- zero install means zero install.
It's based on a sort of virtualized internet filesystem. Here is their example:
$ cd$ ls
gimp1.2
gimp1.3
$ 0refresh
$ ls
gimp1.2
gimp1.3
gimp2.0
You never install, you just run, either by command line or some form of gui contraption. Of course, this system places a lot of faith in the upstream developers, but their website paints a far more interesting picture than the summary given here. Here, for instance, is a decent comparison with apt. Check it out.
Actually, it's a much better name.
Relative cost (Inexpensive) has nothing to do with RAID, while Independent spindles has everything to do with it -- nobody would use any kind of RAID on different partitions on the same spindle for any reason I can think of. If it's a marketing name, they got it right this time.
Funny you should mention that.
I just discovered this nifty site, which serves up free old Latin and Greek grammars and readers and a discussion forum where self-studiers can help each other out.
The teaching methods are ancient, but Latin and Greek are the original Grammar Nazi languages anyway, so that's part of the fun. Of course you're stuck with what the college assigns, but if you want a supplement, the Benjamin D'Ooge book they have on the site is pretty cool.
the arab culture, religion (even if Sunni are in minority in the arab world), and language still play an important role
The Italian debt to the Arabs doesn't begin to compare with the Arab cultural borrowing from the Persians, yet you make it look like the Iranians are the ones in debt. You rant about the former case, you salt the wound in the latter.
The point is that in a pontificating lecture on cultural sensitivity, you trod over Iranian identity hot-button issues like a bull in a china shop. That's what it has to do with your first post.
Had you shown more tolerance towards other people's shortcomings in their understanding of the Arabs, I'm sure most others would have returned the favor with your own gaffes.
First, you've confused shia and sunni.
Second, Persians speak Parsi/Farsi/Persian, however you want to call it -- not Arabic. Yes, it's been altered by Arab colonizers, but it's still Persian.
Finally, ask some Persians about where the high culture like art, architecture and poetry of the Arab Empire come from.
The Arabs cheer you!
But the PERSIANS of Iran probably think you're a pompous git.
I am fucking sick of every damn thing being a great opportunity for open source, I love open source idea, but damn, it sends chills down my spine when yall mention it non stop
User number 34052 is just noticing this?
Pretty good idea about the cereal boxes, by the way.
I watched that show thinking it would be laughable, but I wound up enjoying it.
Ballistic missiles over beam weapons. Mmmm.
But they have to bring back the original theme song.
DaVinci Code? Nah. The book is a lot less interesting if you're already familiar with the source material. The cool twists and conspiracies are directly lifted from the earlier works of eminent fake historians and simply repackaged in a cheesy cardboard thriller plot.
Which kind of irritated me. When I read Holy Blood, Holy Grail, the first thing I thought was "Damn, this stuff would have made a great cheesy cardboard thriller. Too bad these guys used the material first." Then some guy goes and rewrites it as one and makes a mint. Grrr. Shamelessness pays.
Wasn't that in response to calling "french fries" "freedom fries"?
You know, given the politics surrounding that war, the righteous thing for Americans to do would have been to start referring to french fries as "chips"... ;)
Yes, a developer workstation is a "desktop" if it's their main business
Agreed, but I don't think you have to rationalize what qualifies as a "desktop" in that way. This move puts the all flaws of the linux desktop in front of 8,000 people ... who can fix them. Think of the bonanza for desktop linux projects if just 1% of these developers started submitting patches.
For an Open Source project, being put on 8,000 office worker desks would certainly be a sign of maturity and acceptance. Getting your project in front of 8,000 qualified developers is a gold mine.
I'll get back to you about it after next semester? :D
Make that:
I'll get back to you about it after next semester? :A
and tell them were they can stick their license fees.
Yeah! Just tell them you've signed the, uh, "open" letter to SCO at www.goatse.cx.
Couldn't agree more about HP's destructive anti-feature craze. It's even hurt Galeon. Where did "Save Session" go? Where did "File Bookmark" go? I use Gnome because I find KDE too circus (cirKus?) -like, but man, they've got to leave *some* features in.
Some other silliness:
I hope the galeon people take getting dropped as a liberation rather than a punishment. Let them get back to making a great browser rather than trying to conform to someone's warped interpretation of monkey-computer interface guidelines.
They're not geek spots, but DAMN, they're gorgeous
Welllll, if you need a geeky national park (national monument, technically), there's always Devil's Tower!
I've been there, and it's freaking amazing. Plus, you can just hear those five tones...
Large companies sometimes like to set up distribution on a region-by-region basis, with no turf overlap in "authorized resellers". You sometimes see this in car commercials, where a certain deal is "for New Jersey residents only" or some such thing.
From the manufacturer's point of view, it helps them sign up a distributer in country X who can provide local service and market insight without worrying about being undercut by cheaper distributers from other regions. Add in the hassles that others have mentioned to the hassle of tracking which of your products you are allowed to ship where and you can see why a lot of retailers just don't bother.
Also, it has nothing to do with being "US-centric". I think the guy is running into it from that angle because he's from the US and probably visits a lot of American sites. I've had the same trouble when trying Japanese products from Japan.
That's precisely it.
whois 66.220.17.45 shows it's owned by C2 Media, the minds behind lop, as your reference points out.
I hope those NIPC guys are enjoying a good laugh, but it would have been nice of them to tell poor, earnest HeelToe what's going on. It seemed pretty clever of the guy to figure out that his dns had been redirected, why didn't he just look up the registration? Of course that same option didn't stop 50 posts of "Government Bad", but it wasn't their machine, either.
Well, at least now the FBI knows HeelToe has installed pr0nsearch.exe. I feel safer already.
Unfortunately, the MD5 checking won't lead us to the core of SCO's complaints. After reading this inteview, it seems that they claim IP rights to all licensed derivatives of SysV, not just their "ancient" codebase.
That is, they say their license agreements w/ IBM, Sun, etc. give them control over the bits in AIX, Solaris, etc. that were developed by the licensee. So it seems that if IBM develops a special memory locking scheme for AIX then shares it with linux, SCO still claims a violation even though they played no part in developing the code.
Here is the relevant comment:
When we take a top-tier view of the amount of code showing up inside of Linux today that is either directly related to our Unix System 5 that we directly own or is related to one of our flavors of Unix that we have derivative works rights over--we don't necessarily own those flavors, but we have control rights over how that information gets disseminated--the amount is substantial. We're not talking about just lines of code; we're talking about entire programs. We're talking about hundred of thousands of lines of code.
Where people get a little confused is when they think of SCO Unix as just the Unix that runs the cash register at McDonalds. We think of this as a tree. We have the tree trunk, with Unix System 5 running right down the middle of the trunk. That is our core ownership position on Unix.
Off the tree trunk, you have a number of branches, and these are the various flavors of Unix. HP-UX, IBM's AIX, Sun Solaris, Fujitsu, NEC--there are a number of flavors out there. SCO has a couple of flavors, too, called OpenServer and UnixWare. But don't confuse the branches with the trunk. The System 5 source code, that is really the area that gives us incredible rights, because it includes the control rights on the derivative works that branch off from that trunk.
And they say the GPL is viral!
Now I have no idea if this claim is true, if it's in the contract or if it's enforceable, but it make SCO's claims seem a little less bizarre.
I wasn't prepared for the ascii middle finger and the "W3 0wnz0r j00 5c0 b10tch" on the bottom.
I'm not sure they're so confident -- the main AIX page now reads:
For Educational Purpose Only! You must Delete in 24 hours!
We are not responsibles for laws in your country.
[Click HERE to vote for ibm.com]
Scary stuff.
Holy Jebus! No wonder the developers are pissed off. It makes it sound like IBM took Linus' science fair project and turned it into an enterprise-class OS.
As long as the Linux development process remained uncoordinated and random, it posed little or no threat to SCO, or to other UNIX vendors...
It's not just a suit against IBM, but a major flame of the kernel developers as well. Has IBM committed *that* much code? I doubt it. Thanks for posting the link -- I didn't even know it was available. I'm surprised someone at SCO hasn't hidden it in shame.