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Rapid Internet Growth In Iran
securitas writes "The BBC's Abbas Azimi reports on the rapid growth of the Internet and Internet cafes in Iran, apparently with the tacit approval of the government. Seven million Iranians have Internet access, or 10% of the population - double the rate two years ago. Access costs 60 cents/hour. The article describes how the Internet is used for everything from VoIP phone calls to chat and Web logs. Even Iran's vice-president has a daily blog on a popular site with 'musings about politics and life.' All of this despite the ban on many sites, which is easily circumvented by Iran's webmasters and geeks. An interesting point is that most of the PCs used in Iran are assembled from smuggled parts and run pirated versions of all the latest software (due to foreign embargo?). It sounds like a great opportunity for open source software."
Those who know how to use open source software are already using it, so I don't see what kind of oppurtunities you're talking about
The old saying, "if it aint' broke don't fix it," seems to apply here. With no laws against pirating retail software, what would the advantage be to OSS? I know it wouldn't cost them any more, or less, so why change?
FisterBelvedere -- Putting a whole new meaning to "streaks on the china" since 1996.
Why would there be an embargo on modern operating systems? I wouldn't guess that missiles use windows xp. And if they did, it's not like they wouldn't be blowing up in mid air. Seriously, someone I knew used to say that in Ukraine he couldn't find a legal copy of any MS software... only burned copies.
Call open source the software of choice among terrorists. If it takes hold and any terrorists there get caught with it on their machines look for microsoft and the government to start pointing fingers.
PCs used in Iran are assembled from smuggled parts and run pirated versions of all the latest software
Glad to see I'm not the only one.
It's interesting to see yet another government try to circumvent web sites that don't agree with their particular world view. And even better when the web-sites re-appear under different names. Sounds exactly like the situation in China. I wonder if the Iranian geeks are learning from what happened to the Falun Gong et al. They are obviously realizing that the filters are almost worthless to people who really want to get at the material.
However, I still think the filters are effective because they have a very powerful psychological effect. If the government says you shouldn't be viewing said material, and if caught(even though it's almost impossible to catch you, but how many people realize the true power of the government) there will be big trouble. Thus I think most banned sites just wind up preaching to the choir, very sad indeed.
For how long? The 'rulers' overthere just banned several THOUSAND canidates from the elections because they where too 'progressive'.
Once the hardliners regain control there is a good chance this trend will reverse itself.
How about we use this as another tool of diplomacy? People to people, building things like networks and cross communications.
Let's keep in mind that patents are in place to keep lawyers employed and keep them litigating. -CatGrep
So yea, its a great opportunity for them!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,6532 82,00.html
(More Detailed News Article)
" Meeting girls is easy this way," said Amir, as he continued typing, "You can be relaxed no worries."
Apparrently Iranians need the love too! Just like Internet access first got booming over here, it seems porn and interent romance will probably be a big thing over there too.
Just compare this undeniable explosion of freedom to communicate in the "Axis of Evil" to the ever-increasingly repressing law arsenal in Europe: for instance, no sooner than last week, in France, the "LEN" (Law on Digital Economy) makes the provider responsible for the legality of the contents of whatever its customer are communicating over the internet, including web, mail, and so on, and must give information, mails and web logs to the police without the need of a subpoena.
Time to move to free countries...
I know a few programmers with ties to Iran. Some of their computer scientists do things with Assembly that few of their peers in the West can match. Given that most of their population is 25 or younger, and that they are having to become so efficient with so few resources, I think that when Iran opens up to the outside world we could see the next India opening up inside of five years.
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
My guess is pornography, but Allah may prove me wrong.
Dont offer them Windoz free to get a diplomatic upper hand. They will think it was intentional sabotage and ....
offtopic my ass! What do you think the fact that hardliners have taken over will do to those sprouting "internet cafes"?
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Sadly PS2 inspectors never found those Playstations either... It's all this bureaucratic nonsense that forces these silly embargoes. Next up, no more cooking oil for Cuba
MoFscker
An interesting point is that most of the PCs used in Iran are assembled from smuggled parts and run pirated versions of all the latest software (due to foreign embargo?).
the pirated software is not Iran-specific, this occurs in many parts of the world, most notably India, China, and other Asian countries, in some parts of china you can go to your local computer store and pick up a copied version various software
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
This has nothing to do with anything, but it just occured to me that internet cafes are an absolutely natural target for Knoppix. Everything you need goes on the CD, the instant someone signs off everything they've done to the filesystem's cleared, you don't even need a hard drive...
Someone could probably do pretty well for themselves if they made a customized version of Knoppix with software tailored to what an internet cafe needs, the interface made windows-user-friendly and with some big "WEB" "EMAIL" buttons on the desktop, Evolution set up with a quick "connect to your specific email" wizard, and some sort of hooks to some sort of central use tracking/billing system. They could print up a bunch of cds of this and sell it as a no-setup-required "internet cafe in a box" system...
I dunno, it's an idea.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
In a big crackdown at the end of last year, hundreds of internet cafes were shut down and new rules introduced for new proprietors, requiring them to restrict customer's access to a long list of "immoral and anti-Islamic sites".
It's interesting how every country is trying to control the Internet and the flow of Information. Just isn't working, is it. (grin)
-
It shouldn't be too much of a surprise that the Internet has evolved into a force strong enough to reflect the greatest hopes and fears of those who use it. After all, it was designed to withstand nuclear war, not just the puny huffs and puffs of politicians and religious fanatics. - Denise Caruso, (digital commerce columnist, New York Times)
If every one in Iran started using linux, SCO could stage a come back by suing all Iranians in the Islamic court in Iran
If you google for "internet iran" you'll get pretty much the opposite impresion.
Do you think that if Iran began india-izing (for lack of a better term) it would improve the political situation there (because the new technical working class that it would create would exert pressure on the government or find themselves empowered), or make things worse (because it would lead to a crackdown, and the new industries would kowtow to avoid being squashed like little bug), or do nothing at all?
I am just curious since you seem to have some level of informedness on the subject.
When you hear the word smuggled, you think that the item smuggled is illegal itself. This is not the case with computer hardware in Iran. If hardware is smuggled into Iran, it is because it is difficult to find, but not because its illegal. A year ago, I sent my Iranian fiance's mom and dad back to Iran with a suitcase that contained a complete desktop computer with Win98 minus the monitor. Upon arrival in Iran, their luggage (just like all luggage, mail and packages entering Iran) was opened and searched, and they were allowed to proceed.
Here's a little bit I copied from his site:
(Glad he's not one of the leaders of my country)
True story.
They even have a site for linux in Iran. linuxiran.org says that " We, at linuxiran.org! are happy that with your help Iran's first site dedicated to GNU/Linux and FLOSS, is the most active GNU/Linux site in Iran today. To find out more about linuxiran.org! and our group or GNU/Linux and FLOSS in general, please read the FAQ.
I know the parent is joking, but this is almost exactly what happened with the Russians:
e ID =22765
http://www.sqlmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?Articl
Other sources I've seen in the past mentioned that the Russians initially thought it was an intentionally planted bug.
Wouldn't the language be an issue for Open Source Software ? Multilingual support has been a feature of Windows for many years - how good is the support for non-English languages in OSS software ?
Pirated Software isn't a problem only in Iran. So don't blame it on embargo. The problem is economic. To buy MS Windows and Office is some time more expensive than buy a computer in the country where i live (and computers are already expensive without it.). People buy software for bussiness, but don't remember a friend of mine buying MS off-the-shelf software for personal use.
It's easier to sell a computer with a pirated Windows because it's cheaper and some people don't know linux yet, and prefer to buy a computer like their neighbor one.
We've *got* networks and cross communications. What does this offer us? OH - the chance to offer assistance to a bunch of strangers that might/do hate us. Great. Let's jump right on that!
Not.
@sshatrack
It will be interesting to see if this continues. The reformist government is getting clobbered, and the hard-line clerics are prepping to take over in the next presidential election. Sad to see, but Iran may be getting ready to take a step backward. What will be interesting is to see what affect the internet does in fact have on this threat to their recent "freedoms".
...with all the hardliners have taken over.
Iran at the moment is experiencing a rise in one specific expression of personal freedom (internet cafes and tech) in spite of attempts in law to hamper it, while meanwhile the overall political freedom situation worsens.
Europe is experiencing a situation where in France and England, laws regarding information transfer and "intellectual property" are changing such that a model where large incorporated private entities have the ability in certain limited contexts to harass and occationally bully smaller private entities is being vaguely moved toward, and things which Iran does not even begin to have-- such as legal rights, due process of law and oversight of law enforcement activities-- are being to a certain extent eroded; and France and England are trying to force this on the rest of Europe through the race-to-the-bottom system of "harmonization" the EU seems to have latched onto lately. Meanwhile active and wide-based debate as to the role of the EU and the extent to which "harmonization" should be followed is occuring, and the overall level of involvement in and level of freedom within local democracy is remaining much the same as it has been recently.
You'll excuse me if I do not consider these two situations comparable.
and i can understand Troll - but "Offtopic"?? these moderators are f*cked up.
Your marriage is doomed unless you lighten up. He was joking. Damn, don't go off so quick next time or your wife will just leave your ass and take 50%+ of your stuff...
As if someone in any country couldn't throw on a proxy server and download crypto source. Oh wait they might have forms to fill out on a site. I started writing a document about this but got bored with it, so here is a briefer on crypto and government errata... I never finished it because I didn't have time to do so, but you should think twice about believing everything you hear.The document is here and keep in mind I never finished, since it was becoming too long and boring to sift through the BS.
MoFscker
If you find Ali Abtahi's site interesting, you may also find this kind of interesting, though it hasn't been updated in awhile.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
It sounds like a great opportunity for open source software.
Speaking from personal experience from the good ol' Russia, I would disagree that open source software will proliferate. Strike it as flamebate, but given the choice of ANY software available for FREE (beer), the software that has the highest number of the most "common" applications will become ubiquitous. This means - everyone will have windows, photoshop, office plus whatever else that has high value, without any regards to price/advertising. Average Joe might not want to invest his time into less polished Linux for desktop, thus M$ is what everyone will have. Apparently, to the average consumer, the value of OSS is not stability or openness, but the word FREE.
<begin flame here>
No offence, but what crap!
Its a nation for heaven's sake! So what if their religious beliefs are different from yours - does that make them terrorists?
While funny, I'm relatively sure that the VP of Iran is actually a reformist (the president is, at least). It's the Ayatollah and the Guardian Council that forbade thousands of reformist candidates from running for legislature (only allowing their hardliner buddies to do so), not the president or VP.
Let's call the BSA and the RIAA on them. Let's see how well these two orginizations do with their sudo draconian tactics in a draconian state. Should be pretty fun to watch I figure.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
I think that Iran would benefit from imitating India. Given the proximity to Dubai (*major* international trade center), educated population, loyal diasporia, etc. they could easily become a regional economic powerhouse. Several of my friends here in the US are Iranian, and most of them identify heavily with Persia/Iran even if they were born here. That population is among the hardest working and most educated per capita I've ever seen, if they are any indication of what their countrymen are capable of then Iran immediately after the revolution would be the Korea of 1970, the India of 1980, or the Japan of 1955.
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
> Call open source the software of choice among
> terrorists. If it takes hold and any terrorists
> there get caught with it on their machines look
> for microsoft and the government to start pointing
> fingers.
You're not the first to say this, but it's one of the most idiotic arguments I've ever heard. I can't believe either Bush or Microsoft would push this line.
Have any terrorists been caught with Windows on their PCs? Are the latest breed of "computer terrorists" (aka virus writers) running Windows on their PCs? If the answers are "Yes" and "Yes", don't you think you could construct a counter argument that Windows is actually the terrorists' choice?
One of the first things the media would do with such an issue is to consult "respected FOSS spokesman (insert any of several names here)". Do you think Microsoft would risk that person pointing the finger of blame back at MS based on the above argument?
Equating FOSS with terrorism is both absurd and unrealistic.
assmebly is not hard or mysterious once you learn it. Although Iranian programmers are doubtless very intelligent, they are not state of the art and certainly are not teaching anyone else lessons in comp. sci. If I'm wrong, I defy you to show it.
Microsoft aren't likely to support whatever language they speak in iran, since they are unlikely to sell their software because it'll just be pirated.
IIRC kde runs just fine in farsi and localizing other OS applications should be very straightforward.
I find it very interesting that even in countries where piracy is unchecked, people still choose to run OS.
I am pretty certain that most terrorists, mobsters and other criminals that get caught with computers are probably running Windows on their computers. Nobody ever says "Windows - it's the OS of criminals!".
Unforunately all the ads read like this:
swf. black head scarf. inexperienced at dating. enjoys long walks in the desert. i do not sing. please no public stoning.
The hardliners are tremendously unpopular. If free elections were held, estimates are that the various reformist parties would've won a massive landslide of somewhere around 70-85% of the seats in parliament.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
do we call it caffine "input" rather than "intake" !
Dont be too sure.
Even now MS even offers input language support for Kazakh, Estonian, Kyrgyz so farsi shoudnt be too difficult. Though of course I cant believe anyone cares abt that enough to use MS.
Yeah, given OSS's robust and pervasive support for right-to-left, Arabic script languages, it'll be a cinch to get a foothold in Iran.
Wouldnt it be ironical if the Iranian gov decided to censor the net content using the best possible software aka. some OS filter on linux
Damn! I never thought of that! I think I'll pull out of the U.S. and head to Iran to enjoy the free and unopressive government they have.
Iran has a per capita GDP of USD 1800 (not adjusted for "PPP", which in itself is not exactly an uncontentious measure), yet the BBC's correspondent claims that access costs of 60 cents per hour are "well within the reach of the average person".
While access in (the comparatively affluent) Tehran province may indeed be growing rapidly, this is not where the bulk of Iranians live and therefore puts paid to any notions of rapid democratization of knowledge via the Internet - it seems more like a pastime for the urban elite ('twas ever thus).
Also note that all his "postcards from Iran" are in fact about Tehran. I think the BBC is in need of a major quality check. They're getting as bad as CNN.
I've never been to kazakhstan or kyrgyzstan but i have been to estonia a couple of times and it's got a very well developed economy, 100% nationwide cellphone coverage and a fairly well developed internet infrastructure (though it was slow in 99).
It's pretty inconcievable to think of microsoft not covering estonian - even though there are only ~4 million speakers (maybe less, i cant really remember). It's also very close to finnish and uses a western character set, so relatively easy to work with.
US companies aren't permitted to do business with iran and so it'd be a fairly gray area if they chose to develop an iran-localized windows.
That said, iran does seem to be the most internet developed "axis-of-evil", they even have an ipv6 prescence.
True Iran may not be ready for Open Source Software? But they may benifit more from Open Standards. Lock-in is lock-in regardless of geography, and "lock-in" is one thing that "Iran" doesn't need. It also keeps open the door for the evential arrival of OSS.
During the passed week, IRAN held elections. About 2000 persons was prevented to do politicial work before the election, cause they did not have the opinion that the "goverment" had. To USA maybe this sounds like a small number, but rember IRAN is not in any way as big as the USA. Many people did not go to vote, there only choice to tell the world that they didnt like the way the election was held.
Iran is an ancient culture. And a very cultured one. American government would like to believe us that it is in the same league as North Korea. I find it utterly strange that there is an international ban on them for no reason at all.
Mod me as a troll or whatever! BUT DAMN! What is it with " It sounds like a great opportunity for open source software" I am fucking sick of every damn thing being a great opportunity for open source, I love open source idea, but damn, it sends chills down my spine when yall mention it non stop, it is no different from adversiment on TV, or fundamentalist islams and christians trying for world domination. What next?, let's start inserting linux CD rooms in cereal boxes, no, better yet, let's mass distribute it like AOL!
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
http://www.iranphp.net
"Apparrently Iranians need the love too! Just like Internet access first got booming over here, it seems porn and interent romance will probably be a big thing over there too."
Careful! You can lose body parts over there.
How long will it take for the USA and Microsoft to announce that OSS supports terrorism, fundamentalist islam, and dictatorships?
Think about it.
" What next?, let's start inserting linux CD rooms in cereal boxes, no, better yet, let's mass distribute it like AOL!"
Um, you didn't get the memo did you?
"Think about it."
Certifiable Idiots Agency.
Think about the CIA's record that the rest of the planet will pull up.
nt
I read an interesting article in cnn.com the other day about bloggers in Iran and their fear of an eventual clampdown. These blogs not only allow Iranians to voice their opinions about difficult issues, but they give an interesting view of Iranian society and people to the world. Links to some blogs can be found via the article.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
You opened with: "Perhaps we are placing just a little TOO much faith in the POWER of OSS." [emphasis from source], and continued to talk about how the content is more important than the medium, and that we shouldn't get lost down the OSS sink hole and miss the point.
... so we should concentrate on what we know and leave the political power struggle to the experts."
One good response was "But most of us here are far more knowledgeable about OSS than iranian politics
I agree with your point in so much as there would appear to be some limits to the cascading effects of which word processor or operating system you are using. And installing and training a bunch of Iranian nerds on Linux is not really the shortest path toward a free press and an open society (both nice building blocks for stable democracies).
But if we look into the future a decade or so, we can see massive changes happening (which have already begun) with respect to information storage and transmission. "Digital Rights Management" becomes a central power when nearly all aspects of human life are in some ways digital. And the next generations of DRM will be strongly embedded in the software with ties down into hardware itself. This is, of course, desirable and therefore on the roadmap of major capitalist software vendors, because people with lots of money like the ideas of copyright protection and national security and are willing to pay big.
At the same time as this is happening, we have the ubiquitous spectres of terrorism and fear (code yellow today, bomb killed 12, code orange, flight cancelled, take off your shoes, wait in line, code yellow, bomb kills 9...) and people slowly surrender their rights in order to feel just a little bit safer.
So do we want Iran evolving in an atmosphere of fear, being raised as slaves to corporate masters with very different interests than their own? This is 10-20 years from now, and it is the intersection of the future of information technology and the future of a budding society in a precarious part of the world.
So here's the point, to sum it up: while OSS isn't going to change the world right now, it serves as an important long-term play toward *defending* the world and our way of life as we now know it.
For a second, I thought the story blurb read:
"The BBC's Abdul Alhazred reports..."
Come'on, you know it's funny. For the uninitiated among us: Abdul Alhazred
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
Yesterday I saw a BBC documentary about Iran ... seems like it is a real police state, where the hardliners are in power since long. Internet cafes are available but apparently mail is read by government if not censored. I believe they will continue to allow these internet cafes, as long as they are capable of keeping up with monitoring whatever is going on in those places.
>which is easily circumvented by Iran's webmasters and geeks
It looks like a plot by reformers to circumvent the whole "Guards' of the Islamic Revolution" Draconian restrictions.
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
It looks like it was your picture featured on the goatse.cx website ;-))).
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
Allthough the article talks about cafes, I know for sure that there are also a whole lot of home PCs in Iran, most progressive middle-class people have them.
I was thinking, in urban areas, for example Tehran, if it existed a few Wi-Fi hotspots, and others started buying base stations, and kept them open, you would soon have a complete urban network where authorities would not be in control of any of the nodes. They could perhaps crack down on base stations, but at the time it hits them that there exists a complete, independent network, the airwaves would be so full of them, tracking them down could be well beyond their ability.
But, that's just an urban network, to make it really useful, you would need to connect it to the Internet. So, you would need to ensure that some nodes have a connection to the Internet that the authorities can't control. You probably want to have several different connections to the Internet, and I guess several different types, so even if one kind of connection is identified and shut down, traffic can still route through other connections.
This is going to be expensive, but I figured, at least in Europe, there are many companies doing business in Iran, and they probably want to continue after the revolution comes. It'll be a small investment for them to secretly distribute a few satellite phones to willing Iranians to establish an uncontrolled connection to the Internet.
So, what do the /. think, is this viable?
Why is a free Internet important? I think that it is extremely important to keep the communications flowing, so that western policy-makers can decide how to help the Iranian people based upon information flowing from a wide spectrum of Iranians. Not only that, if we on the outside can maintain an open debate, the revolution is more likely to be a peaceful one.
First, you've confused shia and sunni.
Second, Persians speak Parsi/Farsi/Persian, however you want to call it -- not Arabic. Yes, it's been altered by Arab colonizers, but it's still Persian.
Finally, ask some Persians about where the high culture like art, architecture and poetry of the Arab Empire come from.
Kill, Tux, kill!
Great! So, can we outsource it there too?
Sure I understand that sometimes it is necessary to place a country under embargo, to prevent them from getting nasty weoponry or whatever... but what were the geniuses thinking that dreamt up these ways of creatively pulling the rug from under precisely the people that we should be helping and supporting?
See, e.g., also
this
Ugh. Especially in the case of Iran, FOSS is the thing we should support not because of being technically better, but because of being free. Philosophical subversion.
Dear People. You should know the following: 1. Iran is not an ARAB country. 2. The fact that who is the leader (mullah or not mullah), doesn't change anything. The computers will always live. 3. Internet will always find its ways to any country. 4. We don't hate the western people, rather they hate us. Example: IT is concidered prohibited by the American government the entry of powerfull encryption technology to Iran, and some other countries, which includes MD5. Therefore, we aren't allowed to d/l Linux (any reasonable distro) from US mirrors. 5. You know, there also exist some geeks, who don't care about politics at all. (Like me). 6. I am very intrested in OSS coming to Iran. It already has, to some extent. Check out: counter.li.org iranlinux.org and, kdefarsi.org . 7. Anyways, Linux and OSS will eventually take control of everywhere, including IRAN. 8. We are not TERRORISTS. We live like other people in the world. What is the point in being a terrorist anyways? How do you dare call us (including me) TERRORISTS? Have I killed you? Or what? 9. Religion has nothing to do with Open Source. Open Source is actually a special type of religion, if you put it that way. 10. May the source be with you. (NOET: Soorry for louzy spelling and grammar) --Regards, Darioush
The other day I was approached by an unknown user in Yahoo! Messenger.
*She* claimed to be from Iran, having found me through a Yahoo! Profile search. Her English was decent, she claimed to have hobbies (like photography, astronomy) that would definitely require a good middle class or upper class income.
Guess what, I did not really believe her. So I kept the conversation quite short. Maybe next time I will consider that she was not a fake (7 million Iranians being online and such...)
I previosuly thought this was Mullah country. Don't wear your Burka and die. No Internet, no TV, no sex. Oh wait.
Well just recently I learnt that there is a ski resort just north of the capital. Upper class privilege (source: abcnews.com) Surprise, surprise. Thanks slashdot, thanks abcnews for changing my views a bit.
Too bad the recent election has put the conservative, religious elite back into total control. Could partially be a consequence of American occupation to both sides of Iran (speaking of Afghanistan + Irak here).
--- Eat my sig.
Darl McBride of SCO wrote a letter to Congress pretty much saying this
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Microsoft already supports Farsi language in XP and also Office. (yeah, the keyboard layout has a bug but there also some fixes available). Besides that, a number of Iranian companies over the years have produced a lot of hacked versions of Windows (3.1 ... XP) with Farsi support, including the Persian calendar and fonts and sell these products (obviously without licensing anything from Microsoft) with a low price.
Hey dude,
you apparently forgot that Bush is the one who pushed a preventive war without any proof and to date, no WMDs have been found.
How difficult do you think would be pushing a mess on encryption?
When every AOL CD contains a browser with 128-bit encryption, I think we can safely declare that the "War on Encryption Being Available to Potential Terrorists" (foreign nationals) is over and the potential terrorists have won! Time to move on.
pseudo- -- a prefix meaning fake
sudo -- a useful utility that lets you execute commands as a different user
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Wait, doesn't this mean they can't get "support" from the manufacturer ?!?!? How do they make it work?
Of blankness, I know nothing.
...An interesting point is that most of the PCs used in Iran are assembled from smuggled parts and run pirated versions of all the latest software (due to foreign embargo?).
Even with no embargo, software piracy is rampant in the third world. I live in Mexico and it's rare to see anyone with a legal version of software. Though, that is changing.
The equivalent of the IRS down here is Hacienda and my understanding is Microsoft has given them a lot of training and now Hacienda has started checking businesses for pirated software (financial audits are frequent down here). Apparently MS gives Hacienda a chunk of change when they score one for MS.
So things are changing here a bit, but the truth is, a lot of business are simply looking for new ways around it. One business I know of is talking of setting up an Windows Terminal Services machine which will reside off of the property, and everyone will connect to it to get to all the pirated software (and of course, the WTS is unlicensed).
So, really, I doubt an embargo has anything to do with the piracy. Frankly, most third world businesses simply can't afford the price of software.
Yesterday I saw a BBC documentary about the US ... seems like it is a real police state, where the hardliners are in power since long (Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Cheney). Internet cafes are available but apparently mail is read by government (TIA, Echelon, Patriot Act, etc.) if not censored. I believe they will continue to allow these internet cafes, as long as they are capable of keeping up with monitoring whatever is going on in those places.
Heya people. I normally read /. and do not reply much useful stuff, but I hope this may help you guys get a bit more understanding at how quirky computer users are in Iran!
;-)
Firstly, the overall population seems to be very easily adaptable to computers. I was first introduced to the PC when I went back there as a teenager.
Over there, we would purchase software by the megabyte at the time. This would all be for cracked software of course. Now it's usually by the "app" and different applications have different values accordingly. You just go to your local computer shop and look through their list of available software. Service is very professional there!
At first there was no control of any form, then the strangest thing happened. Companies started making their own dongles for cracked software.
Imagine getting your latest H2O music program and realising that you need the H20 Warez Enabler
Then it got even stranger when people started getting cracks for the dongle of the cracked version (I am not a good writer I hope this makes sense still!).
I havent been there for a few years now, so I would love to know if the crack/dongle nesting is still going on!
It would be more precise to say that the Muslim world hates the secular/Judeo-Christian democracies. The Muslim world reached its zenith in the 13th century and has been in a long decline since. Islamic law has proven to be just as weak a basis for good government in modern times as Christianity was in the middle ages. Most of the muslim world has not fully come to grips with this.
an ill wind that blows no good
So it was inevitable these sandfleas would jump on this, not like they would learn something to try to at least get to double digit IQs.
The truth can hurt, but it will eventually set you free.
In the 90's there were many, many people (indeed entire regions) whose software choices were severely limited by the fact that a) only Windows supported their language and b) Windows had the best support for mixing languages, not common in the US but very important elsewhere. Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, and to a large extent Arabic and Urdu speakers all had the option of either learning English or learning Windows. As a result, pirated Windows, not free software, became a de-facto standard.
I'm not sure if windows still has such clear pre-eminence (Macs have come a long way) -- but judging by the pain I just had getting Japanese input working on a vanilla Knoppix installation it's got to still be a factor for a lot of people.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Since things such as high encryption are illegal to import in some countries, how is OSS going to solve anything?
Anything that is powerfull enough to be useable would be pirated, regardless of being commerical or 'free'.
'sides. do they really need it anyway. the world doesnt *need* internet access. its nice but not required..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Obviously, an idiot posted this. The Iranians wanna be just like you. A lot of the population is young and was born after 1979. They don't identify with the revolution. To quote Cindi Lauer, 'They just wanna have fun, fun..". As soon as the theocracy dies out (next 10 years or less), the country will return to its degenerate self as it was with the Shah (an American stooge)...sad but true.
This reminds me of something I've wondered about the Islamic cultures...
As you mention, there's a definite contribution to global culture and science, historically, from these cultures.
Is there ever an attitude of "Hey, look at all these great things that are part of our heritage, all these brilliant things we came up with. We should modernize, innovate the hell out of everything, and show the world that we can be the scientific and cultural leaders again."?
...run pirated versions of all the latest software (due to foreign embargo?).
How much you wanna bet they're running Windows 98? You know they are.
Well except for the Arab minority there
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
"I previosuly thought this was Mullah country. Don't wear your Burka and die." From where did you get this ide ?
CIA Factbook 2002 (US):"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households
Buddy, have you only been reading history written by your good Uncle Sam?
Go back to 1953, when British and US intelligence agencies removed Mossadegh from power, only to give power to the capitalist-friendly Shah. Mossadegh had nationalized the oil industry after failing to negotiate higher royalties, and so had to go. Oh, and he was a nasty commie.
The Shah used torture, repressed and killed scores of communists and lefties, leaving all dissent to right-wing anti-American religious nuts. Remember the Iran hostage crisis? That was the first modern Islamic fundamentalist revolution.
The US and Brits destabilized democracy, by taking away non-violent options for people's legitimate aspirations, they made violence all but inevitable. We reap what we sow. (Note: this is not to say I agree with violence, far from it).
So, with that little historical perspective, you can understand why I seriously doubt the administration would encourage a revolution because of the hardships the population faces: they have caused it to further their economic interests.
Now if you told me they wanted to destabilize them because of the fundies, well, that would be believable
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
Actually I'm Italian.. and i hate the jews and blacks just as much as the sand niggers.. but im not a violent person
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This is an OSS disaster.
Let us also not forget that a large impetus to the Rennaissance was the exodus of Byzantine Greek scholars from the wreckage of the Eastern Roman Empire, busily being dismantled by the Turks. The Arab and later Turkish conquests cut off the Western world from much of the wisdom of our Greek heritage. It was only later that trade and warfare re-acquainted the West with what they had lost, plus benefits -- the Muslims had been adding to that corpus during the meantime.
Let's summarize:
Any mathematical or scientific term beginning with al- is likely from the Islamic world. Algebra, Algorithm (*), Alchemy, etc. Thanks guys. Now knock it off with this Dar al-Harb stuff, okay?
(*) Neat story
Even with no embargo, software piracy is rampant in the third world. I live in Mexico and
If you folks in Mexico like to consider themselves inferior, I really do not care.
But better refraining the usage of this "third world" Cold War-era derrogative expression. It's an illusion to think there's a '100% developed' country and a '0% developed' one.
I do not think someone from Iran would like to have his/her country called like that, neither any self-respecting people.
Nice links.
I was a little unclear, what I meant is that our administration would like to see the hardships faced by the Iranian people increased in hopes that a revolution will result that might lead to a more US friendly government.
Thanks for pointing that out.
What is left out of many histories of Iran is the fact that as much as we pretended to be at odds with the Iranians under Khomeini, we were really playing both sides of the fence, as is documtnted in the records of the Iran-Contra conspiracy, and other records of the Iran Iraq war, by arming the Iraqis directly and arming Iran through covert funding and arms sales using Israel as a front. As much as we claimed to be at odds with Khomeini, a religeous dictator was much more to the liking of the Reagan Administration than the possibility of communism gaining a foothold in Iran. In return for the double dealing, Khomeini executed several thousand "Communists" during the first few months of his regime.
There are some that think that the US was involved in supporting Khomeini even before the Iran Iraq war, but I haven't yet come to any real conclusion about this as yet. It does seem plausible when you look at the CIA's record.
Read, L
First I have to say this: The prices over here are very low, you can get Visual Studio .NET Enterprise Edition (pardon me for the example) for $1 here (the price of the blank CDs + copying!) but open-source software (those that are too big for individual download, consider a Debian distro) are actually more expensive, due to their being hard to come-by (can you believe that??!!!)
Anyways, the use of open source software in academic applications is becoming (yes, BECOMING) standard, although not in many universities, and the public remains untouched by the trend, although everybody have heard about Linux, but Linux is something only heard of, and it is known for its security mostly (not being free), because Windows is highly regarded as an insecure mess, even by the public. And you must understand this, freedom of software (as Stallman advocates) is something unheard-of, and Iranian developers (including myself) are reluctant to shift towards it, as there are no functioning copyright (or copyleft, for that matter) protection laws.
Oh, and if you want to by a computer, you have to go and pick the parts one-by-one, which suits me fine, but causes horror in the hearts of general public. This issue has caused this (selling computers to average people) to become such a big industry.
About the Internet, although it is correct that many people use it on a regular basis, it is not considered a mainstream technology, due to the fact that many people (understandably) don't have a functional English, and that's the language their machine's gonna through information at them. And very few people use Internet for anything business, it's all chat and surfing (and slash-dotting) and blogging.
The above was not my sig block.
Programming is the art that actually fights back!
"The BBC's Abbas Azimi reports on the rapid growth of the Internet and Internet cafes in Iran, apparently with the tacit approval of the government. Seven million Iranians have Internet access, or 10% of the population - double the rate two years ago. Access costs 60 cents/hour. The article describes how the Internet is used for everything from VoIP phone calls to chat and Web logs. Even Iran's vice-president has a daily blog on a popular site with 'musings about politics and life."
I predict a big crack down on internet use and satellite tv now that the Iran hard-liners have come out in the open to oppose democracy in Iran. The sham of an election that just occurred, where over 2000 reform candidate were forbidden from running has shown there is no real democracy in Iran. The supreme leader and the guardian council hold the real power, and are planning on pushing Islam down everyone's throats. See here for details.
Vote for Pedro
You've obviously done some research on this.
As I see it, the US has many different objectives in foreign policy, and many administrations competing to get their objectives considered. The explanation given for any policy is only the one that seems most palatable for the public: WMDs, bringing democracy, fighting communists or terrorists.
It is pretty safe to assume that at least some people in a US administration had interests in common with Khomeini. If he looked like he could disrupt and weaken Iran, he would be a natural ally: the overarching US strategy has been to divide and conquer.
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
it was Cindi Lauper, and she was singing about how "Girls just wanna have fun - thats all they really waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant" etc etc.
:)
but now that I've cleared up that, I do see your point and have to agree with you - and I wasnt the grandparent poster either - as you say, an idiot posted that. and me - im just an AC
If you don't hate anyone why did so many of you cheer 9-11? Why do the vast majority of conflicts in the world involve Muslims? The reason many people look at Middle Easterners as terrorists is because the majority of terrorists are from the Mid East and because of stuff like this. I know that's not the same as the majority of Mid East people being terrorists but I haven't seen any repudiation of terrorist's tactics or agendas (even the Arab and Muslims groups in the US are reluctant). If anything, it seems to me that the only thing the people of the Mid East are willing to fight for is a more conservative/reactionary society/government. Iran overthrew a US supported dictator (apparently not very well supported) who advocated western style reforms for a bunch of dictators who wanted more repression (although the younger generation seems to be regretting that now). 'Students' took a lot of people hostage and kept them hostage for years. I met several of them and heard horror stories about torture. Not a good PR move.
Many of your culture's scientifict advances were also based on the work of others (the Greeks, Romans, Jews, Indians, Chinese, Arabs, etc...). If the Europeans didn't regains what they lost from you, they would've gotten it from someone else sooner or later but thanks for the shortcut.
If your culture is so great why do you tolerate the Mullahs? No offense, but I find it sad that you have to go so far back to claim any sort of significant cultural/scientific achievement. Frankly, the tolerance, scientific openess, and culture that made your society great hasn't been seen in centuries. It isn't a weak state that makes your culture weak; it's a weak culture that makes your state weak. You may treat individual westerners with tolerance but I find it hard to believe that you respect westerners in abstract since much of what is wrong with the Middle East today stems from a rejection of modernity. So when when your government tortures to death some Canadian journalists and others think of you as terrorists, don't take it so personally. It's probably meant in the same abstract way that many people justifying hatred of the US but don't hate Americans (except for the ones who vote Republican). Some hard critical self examination needs to take place and you can't blame it all on the Jews and the US. I'm not saying we're blameless but the US didn't start all problems either.
As I see it, there are many people in government who have sided with the intelligence industries in order to proffit greatly at taxpayer expense through propagating unrest and destabilizing foreign governments to keep the world in a permanant state of near war.
The claim that the CIA is only acting in the interest of the people is hard to swallow not only because of Iran Contra, but also because of the the irregularities involved in the investigations of the Lockerbie Scotland airplane bombing, the 1993 bombing at the World Trade Center, the bombing of the World Trade Center, and of the events on September Eleventh. 2001.
To further call into question the objectives of our Intelligence Community, you only need examine the contractors who have proffited to the greatest extent from both these incidents, and from CIA influenced foreign policy: Halliburton, Bechtel, Wackenhut, DynCorp, The Curry Company, and The Bin-Laden Group (among others).
All of these companies are run by former CIA staffers, agents, and contractors or their closest associates. The first five have all been implicated in breaking US laws either here or abroad in various investigations, while the last one mentioned just happens to have close ties to all of the other companies, the families of prominant conservative US politicians, and one of the terroerist that our government at one time supported and now has been implicated in the attacks on September Eleventh.
I wish I could look at the pile of coincidence that keeps pointing at the same actors and accept it as simply strange odds, but eventually the coincidence becomes too much to write off. It is possible that one can toss heads a thousand times in a row, but it is damn unlikely, and if it happens, you best take a damn close look at that coin.
I say it's about time to hold another "Church Commission" investigation, lets just hope we get some folks in Washington who have enough balls to actually do it.
Read, L
I have family that lived in Iran during the Shaw. Things sure haven't gone better since the "American stooge" left. I know it is painful, but we have done a poor job of ruling our own country. I only take happines in reading how America also struggle during there times of world change. We too still have hope.
People are pretty disillusioned, but most predictions are that of those who bothered to vote at all, most would've voted for a reformist over one of the conservatives. Without the 2000 disqualifications, the reformists would probably have had 200 or so of the 290 seats, and some predictions were as high as 240. Remember, it's a first-past-the-post system, so a conservative would've had to win 50% of the votes in an area to get a seat, and the conservatives only have that level of support in the less-populated rural areas.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I don't think it's a first-past-the-post system. Regardless, the 200-240 estimates are ones I've heard.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10