Isn't this what the big projects like KDE and GNOME do. I don't use Gnome, so may be its not the same as KDE, but I have a desktop with pretty much everything (no accounting) listed in the article from the standard KDE distribution, and the kdelibs that all applications use pretty well guarentees a standard user interface for everything.
Granted, I do find some occassional need to use other programs (for instance I occassionally find a site where I need to run Firebird, and I occassionally use Open Office when I get frustrated with the immaturity of KOffice) but this is becoming less and less so.
The issue that, I think, is unsolveable is that in order to achieve consistancy then you have to stick with one set of UI libraries - and there is just too much temptation to pick applications from more than one stable.
My children are relatively grown up now (21 and 18) and I have only had internet access for them for the past 4 years or so - so the issue has never really arisen. I have no idea whether they have ever visited porn sites, but I would suspect its un-likely - but even if they had, so what.
The thing that worried me the most was with the youngest (daughter) and chat rooms. We explained the danger - but after that let her get on with it.
The important thing was, that we were always around for advice. As a result, both offspring are able to use the internet as a research tool, feel reasonably relaxed about buying things when appropriate through the net, and use instant messaging as a tool (the other evening I was conversing with my daughter 250 miles away at university about an experiment she had been doing with strain guages and whetstone bridges)
I agree with most of what you say. However, I think your reference back to understanding the binary logic as being ALL that is required is wrong.
One doesn't expect a student of arithmetics only to understand how to add and substract - he has to be able to build on these fundamentals and also understand the building blocks made possible by the work of others which give rise to more complex mathematical artifacts.
By the same token - in the "liberal art" of computing, one must understand the fundementals (which probably start somewhere around AND and OR gates - although I could be persuaded that understanding how a transister works in order to build such a gate could be encompassed), understand how the CPU works (registers, addressing modes etc) and build on those low level concepts to see how operating systems, programming languages, and communications work. The study should continue step wise all the way to understanding whats actually happening behind the scenes to produce the icons on the screen or to deliver e-mail from one side of the world to the other.
[I do have to ask myself whether the starting point for the subject I have chosen is the correct one or merely the place where I started. I have worked for over 30 years at a computer company, and each year as the new batch of graduates have joined the company they have known less and less about these fundementals. There was a point somewhere in the mid '80s when they stopped knowing how a cpu worked and were therefore incapable without much training to work in assembler. Perhaps Dylan Evans' start point is just later than yours or mine?]
I'm pretty sure that Universal Plug and Play (uPnP) provides a way for IM to negotiate through NAT. My netgear router added that to the menu in the last software upgrade.
At least my family, all on boxes behind the NAT router all seem to be able to use MS IM service. I also managed to use it from my linux workstation using KOPETE.
I pitty the poor IT director who said that open source is a no brainer.
There is no way in the world that this audit is going to come up with anything other than in favour of M$. Once that happens the marketing people are going to be all over his bosses.
Firstly, or course, they are co-operating through freedesktop.org
Secondly - its the challenge that an alternative exists that drives both teams to innovate and make their particular project better. So whats to say that this actually means that KDE (and GNOME) have not got further than if they had tried to fit incompatible technologies together.
Not about the GNU/Linux thing being a bit of a tired argument, but that it was wrong to bring it up in this article.
It was important in this article to carefully distinguish between the kernel and a complete system (as compared to UNIX) to at least sweep one part of the SCO FUD away.
I would have said this is a valid way, legally, to get to the nub of the argument and to then deliver the knock out blow blow, indicating that they had then released the code under GPL.
Of course the GPL argument applies to everything anyway - but I think the smaller the range of code that the particular argument applies to, the easier it is for an impartial judge to see the validity of the argument.
Surely the real point of a 64 bit chip is its 64 bitness, not a pissing match with chips crippled with limited memory addressing.
It holds is own with 32bit chips, but the real benefit of this is when its used in an environment where more than 4GB of memory is an important parameter. Those other competitive chips won't stand a chance.
On my web site (under building PCs) I have some rather old data about ENTRY level machines and predictions of where these will be in the future. It looks as though we are getting 4 times the memory in about 3 years (possibly even less - this had come down to 3 years from 4 years in the 8 years prior) - meaning that by 2005 we will be in the 1GB range and by 2008 at 4GB. Remember that is entry level and that the top of the range machines use many multiples of this.
Such is the way of open source. Fork, I say! I only hope that Keith's concerns are truly pragmatic and related to the software, rather than ego.
It doesn't matter if it is his ego or not. He has to release his code - so if the rest of the team get their act together they could merge it back into the main stream if they wanted.
In the end this is a project management and social issue, not individual personalities.
Possibility of a fork is a necessity
on
XFree86 Politics
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· Score: 5, Insightful
The whole strength of the open source concept is that the many hands in a community can make complex problems shallow. If forks can't happen, then a monopoly on the supply of software develops. However, within there already seems a situation in which the threat of a fork is forcing a previously partially closed community to consider how to open up more.
Don't forget that forks are considered by Linus to be essential elements of a successful project. They allow the opportunity for alternative approaches to be tried, and if successful to be adopted. The trick in the kernel is that Linus recognises this and is prepared to merge again when a fork shows its worth
This hasn't worked through yet - it may well be that the threat that it might happen allows the situation to improve such that the natural progression is to bring the two sides together again. This is an opportunity not a threat and we should encourage it
Surely this makes the same business sense as companies not owning property, but prefering to lease them from property companies.
Why have your money tied up in expensive capital assets (and thereby affecting your cash position) when you could in effect pay by use.
Its a similar business logic that persuades companies to outsource non core business processes (and you could be suprised at what companies consider non core - I heard Ford are considering outsourcing building cars).
Is fairly common in business for bankrupcy to void contracts (and a licence can be considered as a contract). Loan agreements, even things like energy purchase contracts become void.
I was just in a discussion today about credit management - companies can be quite worried about defaulting on certain contracts because it causes a domino effect on others.
It has been announced that this will happen when 3.1 is released shortly.
You can always get kde 3.0.4 by putting the following in your sources.list
deb http://download.uk.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.0.4/De bian/sid./ deb http://people.debian.org/~bab/kde3./ deb http://people.debian.org/~njordan/ kde3.0/
[Replace uk with country code on the first line (and I can't loose the space in Debian on this post - it should not be there). The last two lines are related apps like kdevelop etc]
Don't give me the old "competition" argument either. There is only one Linux kernel, which seems to progress just fine without another competing project nipping at its feet and instigating flamewars. The endless KDE vs. GNOME, Applix vs. StarOffice, and other feuds have wasted more productivity than would be gained by and competitive drive.
I disagree. Of course you might like to have everyone work on the same thing - but these are volunteers who work on what gives them enjoyment. You can't get them to work on a common environment - the best you can achieve is common interface standards, and that is happening.
With this environment then you do get competition, because each camp wants their side to win. This moves each side on faster than it would without the other. We don't know whether one environent will become THE ONE (the others will not disappear immediately - if at all - but will continue anyway as a minority solution).
As for your one kernel. The kernel development goes through the same thing, look at the number of competing file systems.
Don't know about where you are, but here (UK) the phone is most definately a fashion item. And like most fashion items they need to be disposed of when they are out of fashion.
Slashdot Mirror
Isn't this what the big projects like KDE and GNOME do. I don't use Gnome, so may be its not the same as KDE, but I have a desktop with pretty much everything (no accounting) listed in the article from the standard KDE distribution, and the kdelibs that all applications use pretty well guarentees a standard user interface for everything.
Granted, I do find some occassional need to use other programs (for instance I occassionally find a site where I need to run Firebird, and I occassionally use Open Office when I get frustrated with the immaturity of KOffice) but this is becoming less and less so.
The issue that, I think, is unsolveable is that in order to achieve consistancy then you have to stick with one set of UI libraries - and there is just too much temptation to pick applications from more than one stable.
I am no expert, but reading the development docs for kde, much of the user interface is built dynamically from an XML file
I must say I couldn't agree more.
My children are relatively grown up now (21 and 18) and I have only had internet access for them for the past 4 years or so - so the issue has never really arisen. I have no idea whether they have ever visited porn sites, but I would suspect its un-likely - but even if they had, so what.
The thing that worried me the most was with the youngest (daughter) and chat rooms. We explained the danger - but after that let her get on with it.
The important thing was, that we were always around for advice. As a result, both offspring are able to use the internet as a research tool, feel reasonably relaxed about buying things when appropriate through the net, and use instant messaging as a tool (the other evening I was conversing with my daughter 250 miles away at university about an experiment she had been doing with strain guages and whetstone bridges)
I agree with most of what you say. However, I think your reference back to understanding the binary logic as being ALL that is required is wrong.
One doesn't expect a student of arithmetics only to understand how to add and substract - he has to be able to build on these fundamentals and also understand the building blocks made possible by the work of others which give rise to more complex mathematical artifacts.
By the same token - in the "liberal art" of computing, one must understand the fundementals (which probably start somewhere around AND and OR gates - although I could be persuaded that understanding how a transister works in order to build such a gate could be encompassed), understand how the CPU works (registers, addressing modes etc) and build on those low level concepts to see how operating systems, programming languages, and communications work. The study should continue step wise all the way to understanding whats actually happening behind the scenes to produce the icons on the screen or to deliver e-mail from one side of the world to the other.
[I do have to ask myself whether the starting point for the subject I have chosen is the correct one or merely the place where I started. I have worked for over 30 years at a computer company, and each year as the new batch of graduates have joined the company they have known less and less about these fundementals. There was a point somewhere in the mid '80s when they stopped knowing how a cpu worked and were therefore incapable without much training to work in assembler. Perhaps Dylan Evans' start point is just later than yours or mine?]
I'm pretty sure that Universal Plug and Play (uPnP) provides a way for IM to negotiate through NAT. My netgear router added that to the menu in the last software upgrade.
At least my family, all on boxes behind the NAT router all seem to be able to use MS IM service. I also managed to use it from my linux workstation using KOPETE.
I pitty the poor IT director who said that open source is a no brainer.
There is no way in the world that this audit is going to come up with anything other than in favour of M$. Once that happens the marketing people are going to be all over his bosses.
Good points
Firstly, or course, they are co-operating through freedesktop.org
Secondly - its the challenge that an alternative exists that drives both teams to innovate and make their particular project better. So whats to say that this actually means that KDE (and GNOME) have not got further than if they had tried to fit incompatible technologies together.
The text only refers to Microsoft IP. Remember that Microsoft owns Xenix and SCO bought rights to distribute it.
Not about the GNU/Linux thing being a bit of a tired argument, but that it was wrong to bring it up in this article.
It was important in this article to carefully distinguish between the kernel and a complete system (as compared to UNIX) to at least sweep one part of the SCO FUD away.
I would have said this is a valid way, legally, to get to the nub of the argument and to then deliver the knock out blow blow, indicating that they had then released the code under GPL.
Of course the GPL argument applies to everything anyway - but I think the smaller the range of code that the particular argument applies to, the easier it is for an impartial judge to see the validity of the argument.
My open source projects go nowhere because I spend all the spare time reading slashdot and never get started.
Surely the real point of a 64 bit chip is its 64 bitness, not a pissing match with chips crippled with limited memory addressing.
It holds is own with 32bit chips, but the real benefit of this is when its used in an environment where more than 4GB of memory is an important parameter. Those other competitive chips won't stand a chance.
On my web site (under building PCs) I have some rather old data about ENTRY level machines and predictions of where these will be in the future. It looks as though we are getting 4 times the memory in about 3 years (possibly even less - this had come down to 3 years from 4 years in the 8 years prior) - meaning that by 2005 we will be in the 1GB range and by 2008 at 4GB. Remember that is entry level and that the top of the range machines use many multiples of this.
This is, I presume, a very US problem.
I am sure here in the UK, we could go to the trading standards office if a stunt like that was pulled.
If he doesn't, its not exactly a fork - is it!
It doesn't matter if it is his ego or not. He has to release his code - so if the rest of the team get their act together they could merge it back into the main stream if they wanted.
In the end this is a project management and social issue, not individual personalities.
The whole strength of the open source concept is that the many hands in a community can make complex problems shallow. If forks can't happen, then a monopoly on the supply of software develops. However, within there already seems a situation in which the threat of a fork is forcing a previously partially closed community to consider how to open up more.
Don't forget that forks are considered by Linus to be essential elements of a successful project. They allow the opportunity for alternative approaches to be tried, and if successful to be adopted. The trick in the kernel is that Linus recognises this and is prepared to merge again when a fork shows its worth
This hasn't worked through yet - it may well be that the threat that it might happen allows the situation to improve such that the natural progression is to bring the two sides together again. This is an opportunity not a threat and we should encourage it
Theres a Geramik theme that matches the Keramik theme. Google search reveals lots of different links for different distributions
Surely this makes the same business sense as companies not owning property, but prefering to lease them from property companies.
Why have your money tied up in expensive capital assets (and thereby affecting your cash position) when you could in effect pay by use.
Its a similar business logic that persuades companies to outsource non core business processes (and you could be suprised at what companies consider non core - I heard Ford are considering outsourcing building cars).
IANAL/A (Last A is an Accountant)
Is fairly common in business for bankrupcy to void contracts (and a licence can be considered as a contract). Loan agreements, even things like energy purchase contracts become void.
I was just in a discussion today about credit management - companies can be quite worried about defaulting on certain contracts because it causes a domino effect on others.
It has been announced that this will happen when 3.1 is released shortly.
e bian/sid ./ ./
You can always get kde 3.0.4 by putting the following in your sources.list
deb http://download.uk.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/3.0.4/D
deb http://people.debian.org/~bab/kde3
deb http://people.debian.org/~njordan/ kde3.0/
[Replace uk with country code on the first line (and I can't loose the space in Debian on this post - it should not be there). The last two lines are related apps like kdevelop etc]
The problem with your argument is that it IS possible to design a UI that is intuative AND fast to use. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I disagree. Of course you might like to have everyone work on the same thing - but these are volunteers who work on what gives them enjoyment. You can't get them to work on a common environment - the best you can achieve is common interface standards, and that is happening.
With this environment then you do get competition, because each camp wants their side to win. This moves each side on faster than it would without the other. We don't know whether one environent will become THE ONE (the others will not disappear immediately - if at all - but will continue anyway as a minority solution).
As for your one kernel. The kernel development goes through the same thing, look at the number of competing file systems.
Except that with your approach you have to get up every 4 hours through the night to replicate what this guy has achieved.
Don't know about where you are, but here (UK) the phone is most definately a fashion item. And like most fashion items they need to be disposed of when they are out of fashion.
Isn't this just what Hari Seldon predicted in his Pyschohistory Mathematics.