Slashdot Mirror
KDE 3.1 Released
Ashcrow writes "KDE 3.1 was released early this morning and boasts new usability enhancements, VNC-compatible desktop sharing, tabbed browsing, and a new download manager, among other enhancements.
You can read the release anouncement here and start downloading from the closest mirror. Kudos to the KDE Team!"
KDE 3.1 is really a step above 3.0. Kudos to the rest of the KDE team!
http://saveie6.com/
... the new drop down shadows for the menu's!
And a hefty decrease in startup and rendering time for konqueror, and a limit to the gif-animations allowed per second.
And a brand new splash screen!
Much compliments to the KDE-team!
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
screenshot 1
screenshot 2
screenshot 3
screenshot 4
Don't know how the lameness filter got involved, but here's what I'm doing about it.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. it's the only thing that ever has.
Wheres the rpms, or do i really have to wait for rh8.1?
-- signed for your pleasure --
KOOL! Keramik is the best looking theme I have ever seen in my whole life. People are bored with Mac OS X. KDE can deliver something much cooler than apple. Let's face it - who thinks that Aqua looks cool? Not many.. not anymore. We've got used to it and now it looks boring.
Well it looks like lots of enthousiasts out there have started the download immediately. The site is pretty slow :-( I guess I'll just wait a while untill the first storm is over
/(bb|[^b]{2})/
I think we /.ed the KDE site.
what an awesome (and of course slightly :) behind schedule) release.
tabbed browsing is an excellent that i love to use in moz. i notice it in konqueror, but the hot keys are different. perhaps there's a way to change them, but after months and months of using ctrl+t to get a new tab, i konq uses something different. i'm curious why not use the "standards" the moz dev team included. yeah, there's probably not an rfc for hot keys on opening a new browser tab, but something i use daily is standard.
another thing. i test drove konqueror in rc6, and pop-up windows were enabled by default. i guess this just makes the user find out how to turn them off? most people might not even know that they can turn them off. i think pop-up s/b off by default.
all in all - a very well polished desktop. the kde team delivers quality code as usual!
Well, no RedHat packages, which is not surprising considering the 'treatment' that KDE was subjected to by RH.
Also, I never managed to get the Win key mapped to anything in KDE 3.0.x. I wonder if the situation changed. As I recall, KDE wanted a 'Win' modifier and xmodmap did not have any knowledge of a modifier called 'Win'. Rather unfortunate.
Here . It's amazing... Some people are complaining that they didn't use AA fonts for the screenshots, and that's a bad PR decision. More on Osnews
DVD Ripping, Divx, VCD, SVCD under Linux
Does this mean Duke Nukem Forever is out? Or can I have a snowball fight with Satan?
Really though, I have been using KDE 3.1 since beta2, watching it move through its different stages to what is is now has been a great joy. The new control panel is much more intuative, keramic is purdy, and all the little toots and whistles you will find will make it enjoyable. KDE is the main reason I don't go back to windows.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Has anybody else come to the same conclusion that OS X's Aqua or Jaguar are starting to feel boring and lame while open source UIs offer more innovative and fresh themes all the time and ever more often? I honestly think so. I don't see anything cool in Jaguar anymore. No pun intented.
VNC is nice to have (but would I ever use it), some might like tabbed browsing, etc. etc., but that's nothing like finally having good javascript support, better and faster rendering in konqueror.
I'll wait for 3.2 with upgrading.
Here's the thing (about Ctrl+T).
See, KDE 2.0 had support for embedding a Konsole frame into the Konqueror window. As I'm sure you noticed, if you hit Ctrl+T, 3.1 still embeds a Konsole frame in the Konqueror window.
Fact of the matter is that we had a binding for Ctrl+T first... and changing around things that our users are used to as far as keybindings go is obviously a no-no. (Believe it or not there are people who use the embedded Konsole stuff. And it is pretty nifty.)
However, if you go to Settings->Configure Keybindings, you can alter it to change it from Ctrl+Shift+N to Ctrl+T or add Ctrl+T so you can use both. KDE has really good keybinding support, and it's very configurable.
Hope this helps.
Every time I read about how "Linux is not ready for the desktop", I just laugh. It's KDE that's the real desktop star, and yes it is ready! I've been using KDE at home since KDE2 came out, and find myself using Windows at work less and less.
When Windows XP came out, I gave it a fair shot. I didn't boot Linux/X/KDE for 3 months. Outlook was a giant pain, compared with KMail. IE was a nightmare, and I had to install Phoenix to escape unwanted programs and scripts. Easy CD Creator had me longing for X-CD-Roast. And XP crashed way too often.
Now KDE is getting even better. The SSH stuff is exactly what I need! Life is good.
This is another terrific release by the KDE team and I commend them on yet another release of some pretty sweet code.
I have one concern though, that I have seen others raise in the past and which makes me wonder if we're heading in the right direction. A quick scan through the new features is almost like reading about the new features introduced in a previous version of Windows. Is KDE simply trying to be 'more like Windows', which in turn would make KDE a much more familiar 'interface' for newbies to use? If so, then that's great and I'm sure that it will help increase its use amongst the masses.
What bothers me is that I'm beginning to see less and less 'innovation' and more and more 'feature copying'. Now, I understand that it's difficult to add a killer new feature without first having a base that an average user would expect to have, but when will we be able to reach the point where we can begin to 'differentiate' KDE from Windows in a unique way in order to furthur 'entice' potential users who simply see KDE as a 'Windows wanna-be'?
I for one love KDE and have used it as my primary desktop environment for at least a couple years now, and I always look forward to updates such as this one. They're always full of neat goodies. But I always get that feeling in the back of my mind that maybe we should try to 'think out of the box' a little more...
I've been a long-time GNOME user, and I'm just about ready to try something else.
I recently made some new themes for my GNOME2 desktop and was stymied by my GTK1 applications that... well... just wouldn't cooperate.
I'd previously made some GTK1 themes that more-or-less matched the GTK2 ones, but I cannot figure out how to convince GTK1 apps to use certain themes under my GNOME2 desktop environment. It's completely opaque.
There are so many apps I use that are still GTK1 (Galeon, Evolution, GAIM, etc etc etc) that my desktop is just plain ugly right now.
I'm getting fed up, and am trying to find something that will give me a nice even look & feel across applications. My main fear is that KMail and Konquerer won't be good Evolution/Galeon replacements.
In the end, I'll probably go OS/X, but I really hope it doesn't happen.
fifth sigma, inc.
You can have more than one user on the same desktop. Like say you've got a friend who's a linux n00b across the world and you wanna help him/her. He/she can just activate shared desktop, you connect to it, and boom there's another cursor in there. Or ideally at least.
VNC allows like you to run GUI remotely, just as ssh allows you to shell remotely, but the difference is, more than one person can be controlling the same display. It'd be like having two people typing on the same shell line, cept it's a lot more useful in the GUI world than in the console world.
Sigs pose an operational security risk and help the baddies aggregate data. I guess commenting does too, oops.
Also, a pretty release guide is available here Can't wait to try the new S/MIME support in Kmail. I'm so stoked!
A quick scan through most of the comments on this page reflect the sentiment that KDE represents one of the pinnacles for why any windows user would want to switch to linux, and why linux "is ready".
My two cents on this matter is that what I feel should be Linux's selling point, what should be the reason why people start using Linux, is not so much a single desktop GUI, a smattering of 'features' that windows lacks, or anything. It should be the notion that Linux is an aggregate whole of multiple works, and that under Linux there is always more than one answer to something.
*sniff*
Now wasn't that sentimental and goo-gahish.
Congrats to the Kdevelopers for Kde 3.1
Mac OS X has a unique look while both KDE and Windows uses a very similar interface.
The new thing with this KDE release is that it now really drags away from Windows with excellent icons and windowstyles.
I, and many people, have used this themes for a long time.
It's really interesting to see how much the german government has spent on KDE development. Wish more government would do that.
Ciryon
Mac OS X has a unique look
So fucking what? Unique or not, if it looks boring, IT REALLY LOOKS BORING! What part of my message you don't understand? People are bored. Aqua and Jaguar look very boring now.
the long awaited kde 3.1 has come off to the ftp servers to download
Does it also support VNC over SSH? That would be sweet. I also read that they are removing the Interface from the VNC backend so we can plug more protocols in. VNC is OK but I hear there are better ones out there. Also support for Wndows Terminal services would be good.
Not that I am complaining...This release looks great. When Gentoo finallly releases their new version I'm gonna be upgrading.
Glen
[Please type your sig here.]
The speedup in 3.1 is very noticeable. It looks great but also everything is much more responsive then before. :) but it feels so much different (i.e. better). The only issue I had before was that KDE was always slower compared to windoze running on the same machine but that difference seems to be almost completely gone.
I don't quite understand the complaints people have about KDE looking like windoze. Yes, it has windows
Once again, I am absolutely amazed at what this little thing called Open Source can do.
Just six years ago, an ambitious proposal was made to the world by a German university student named Matthias Ettrich. The goal of the project was to create a user-friendly, open source desktop environment similar to CDE, the Common Desktop Environment. CDE, at the time, was popular on Solaris and many proprietary Unix platforms. However, CDE's code base was closed and the Linux community was searching for a suitable replacement. Enough support built up that dozens of developers came together to create an entire desktop environment out of nothing. Over 20 months later, KDE 1.0 was released to the public. And there was much rejoicing.
Taking on Sun was an ambitious enough goal. But who would have imagined that Microsoft (Word document) (Google cache) would ever specifically name KDE as a viable competitor to Windows?
Microsoft may even start to get a little hotter under the collar if recent events are to show anything: Wal-Mart's on-line shopping site quickly ran out of their PC's built with a Linux distribution using KDE for its interface; most of the government computers in Largo, FL run KDE; and Apple implements a new Web browser based on KDE's KHTML library.
And if there is nothing else that the release of KDE 3.1 proves, it is that the naysayers are wrong again. All too often, there are those who try to suggest that there is some sort of heated conflict between the GNOME and KDE projects. Nothing could be further from reality. For example, on the Xdg mailing list prominent developers from both the GNOME and KDE projects work together in forming a consistent .desktop file standard. The
people that actually make GNOME and KDE have nothing but the highest respect for one another's projects. There is
none of the hostility that so many trolls would like others to believe.
It has just been wonderful seeing this release happen. I have been watching the KDE developer's mailing lists since July and I find it fascinating how the whole thing has come together. The graphics designers, the documentation writers, the translators, the event organizers, and, of course, the coders. All of these groups have been equally important in making KDE the enormous success it has become.
So, I just want to say thank you to everyone who made it happen. I just have to wonder what the next six years will bring!
Do not worry about finding a list of mirrors. download.kde.org will automatically forward you to an open mirror.
For a direct link to the packages, here are:
Note that you need a version of Qt >= 3.1.0. There are additional requirementsfor 3.1 you may want to know.
One thing I have never figured out with KDE is the lack of an installer. I like the installer from Ximian for Gnome. It is simple, and it handles dependencies (moderately well).
With KDE, I have to download a ton of files, and then figure out the aRTS dependencies and whatnot. I also have to figure out how to make Linux use KDE instead of Gnome. I can do it and get it installed, but why not have an installer?
Well, not from VNC in particular, but at least in the rc6, the other person really needs to have KDE to use it. *OR* they need to know how to set up VNC on their end and configure it properly. What would have been much nicer is to have the Java applet built in on the KDE side, such that it'd let someone connect on a port (80? 8080? whatever) to get the Java viewer applet, then use that applet VNC viewer to connect to your desktop. Right now it's still very limited in its usefulness to techies. Being able to *easily* demonstrate to a non KDE user how useful the sharing is would have been nicer than simply saying 'it's really cool'.
creation science book
Did anyone else notice the typo in the screenshot showing off Kate (text editor)? Where's bugzilla...
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
The new features guide seems to be full of references on how better will be in the next release.
Funny that this news is posted today.
:0 works fine until I start a vncserver with "startkde" in the ~/.vnc/xstartup script instead of the default twm.
I had to launch mozilla from a cosole to get it to pop up this morning. This was using KDE 3.0.3 and the latest vnc.
Session
After I get a second KDE running, my first one gives me messages like "KLauncher could not be reached via DCOP" when I try to use the start menu or task bar. Sure things work fine on the vnc kde session, but I do like having both running.
I'm very happy to hear that things are playing together nicely now.
would it be prudent for developers who work on applications similar in nature (eg web browsers) to get together and decide on a standard for things like this?
integration issues such as this are a useability issue that i think will seriously effect the success of linux on the desktop.
dont take this as a negative slice towards kde, since communication works both ways, its just a suggestion. it's also a problem which occurs in all applications: email clients, editors, etc. it would just make sense for developers to work together on this and come up with a default set of key bindings that is standard across all applications.
apart from the constructive criticism above, the screenshots 3.1 looks very sharp. i look forward to the tabbed browsing in konqueror among other things. good job to all of you.
-- john
Lest anyone be accusing Red Hat of animosity towards KDE, note that RH's kernels are also behind the latest releases from Linus, and yet nobody ... well, nobody worth listening to -- claims that RH has it in for Mr. Torvalds' little project. I think it's far more likely that RH just has a rigorous QA process with the aim of releasing no package before its time than that they hate KDE. By the way, when the update for security problems in a recent version of KDE came out, RH came out with them in a timely fashion. This (3.1) release has lots of new neat features, but it's not a security update. Perhaps they believe (rightly, IMO) that users can wait for shiny new objects.
Besides, have you looked at how many packages it takes to install KDE? Eeep! I suppose up2date can handle that. Of course, the upgradability issue is there with GNOME; and I can't recall off the top of my head when RH has offered a point-release update for GNOME that wasn't security-related [ that's a hedge -- I can't recall when they have release a point-release update for GNOME period ].
For those of you who absolutely must have the latest, then take a look in the "rawhide" directory of any RH mirror, e.g. this one.
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
Editorial comments aside, you can expect kde-3.1 packages (currently, for rh73 only) to appear soon at kde-redhat.sourceforge.net.
I was a long time GNOME follower. Knowing GNOME 1.x and 2.x of it's best but I must admit that KDE 3.1 is the best Desktop Environment that I've seen so far.
- It's fast,
- Clean,
- Consistent,
- Really integrated,
- Usable,
- Beats Windows in certain situations on length.
I belive that with the 3.1 release of KDE that there is no real future for GNOME and I sometimes wonder why they still work on it and put so much effort into that project. GNOME will never comes out of the 'development' phase. Once an application looks halfway usable (still in development phase) it then starts to get changed once again which then makes it unusable for the next couple of months again.
There are a lot of nasty issues in GNOME even now in the stabilized gnome-2-2 branch which will get released in 2 days.
- Log in as user under console (not gdm) and then enter startx to load up X and GNOME then try to immediately log out. Nothing happens for the next 3-5 minutes. Then one time the logout dialog pleases itself to show up and let you log out (even this doesn't work seriously often). This problem has been announced on bugzilla.gnome.org and hasn't been fixed till yet.
- Gnome-Terminal install the bluecurve theme and fullsize it. The theme disappears.
- Bonobo and Glade toolbars are looking differently get a look here.
- Documentation for programmers. There are still no sign for usable GNOME 2 documentations, how should a programmer get into GNOME 2.x development when he knows shit about howto use the functions and what purpose they have. There is the API reference manuals for all libraries (still unfinished and incomplete), there are old documentations for GTK1 and GNOME1 and there is the GTK 2 tutorial which only describes the first 20% of the Toolkit but nothing more. No documentation explaining Gnome-VFS, Bonobo and other complex things. You've been told to 'use the source Luke' all the time but it's hard spending 3 months into buggy code of others to get a clue how things are made and then adapt maybe buggy code to your own project because you don't know it better howto use these things.
- Still nothing as simple as a Fileselector yet,
- Still no snap to grid feature.
- GNOME is mostly a hacking around when I have the mood to it or when I feel that I need to tweak this and that. There is no real roadmap or featureplan such as in KDE even months ago I was able to read and KNOW what will be in KDE 3.1 and even now I know what will be in 3.2
GNOME are hyping and making shitty things such as 'open recent' features look like its a revolutionary progress in the desktop while on the other hand its a little gift from KDE.
Sorry to come over with the same shit all the time but people tend to compare KDE and GNOME all the time so do I. I really like KDE and I also like GNOME very much (used to be a GNOME follower) but all this is soo sad. Now seeing KDE 3.1 and compareing it with 3.0 then I ask myself wow. What's wrong with GNOME ? 2.0 and 2.2 is no big step if you compare it with the changes made in KDE.
Well this can endlessly be expanded. I appreciate and welcome the work of the GNOME developers they are definately trying to do a good job but imo it's not enough for the public. And it makes me sick reading all the shit from GNOME zealots replying to KDE people how much mature GNOME is (which it definately is not). Fancy themes and icons doesn't make a good desktop environment.
Good for you lucky people with Linux boxes!. Here I am stuck up with Windows.
Hey is someone porting it to Cygwin;)?.
Is there a KHTML port being planned?.
Yes, am stuck in windows!
What we need now is support in mozilla and konqueror.
Like alot of other people here I'm sure, have my own homepage with all my links instead of just bookmarks. It would be nice to keep that page up in the first tab an have the links open in new tabs without having to do a "right-click open in new tab".
KDE picks up common keyboard shortcuts if they are not previously used by KDE for something else, e.g. F9 for sidebar or Ctrl-W to close a tab.
get a grip.
It's SUPPOSED to be boring (read consistent and professional), not UGLY like Windows, or HALF-FINISHED like KDE.
The fact that you can run an OGL screensaver as wallpaper should make up for any degree of boredom you encounter.
That was classic intercourse!
Cool, then maybe Safari for MacOS X will have it soon! Tabbed browsing is the only reason I still use Mozilla on my iMac at home.
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
You know this K-naming thing has really gotten to the KDE folks when you read about the new game Atlantik: "Inspired by the famous boardwalk in Atlantik City, New Jersey...".
I usually try KDE every new release, and after some time, I wind up going back to GNOME. I'm just more comfortable with GNOME. I can't explain it.
But these KDE releases are knocking the socks off those little GNOME feet with features. Some things that caught my eye, in order of coolness: kio_fish, VNC integration, and a file selector dialog that doesn't suck.
It's very impressive, and it's terribly exciting to see this rate of polish being added to these big projects. Congrats to the KDE team for another (hopefully solid) release.
Jason.
OTOH, the ten people that use Konsole frames in Konqueror and that update to 3.1 could have changed their keybindings. I'm thinking that you could probably have told all ten of them by word of mouth as well.
Given that so much of KDE is, ahem, influenced by other GUIs and apps, switching to the de facto standard in new releases might be a sensible strategy.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
You could try Geramik - this'll give your GTK/GNOME apps a similar look to KDE3.1's Keramik style.
I have my parents running linux, and my mother will be thrilled that they have 4 new games. Whenever I come over to their house, she is always playing with those games that come with KDE.
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Will they be available via Mandrake Software Update?
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
I have RH8 installed (yep, the .0 with the famous "blended" UI from RH). Whats the easiest way to move to KDE3.1 ?
...namely that RedHat generally never releases packages for new packages for _anything_ to current distributions, other than to fix bugs.
Now, I realize that the parent post in this case is not actually clear on whether the complaint is about packages for Redhat by the KDE project itself, or lack of KDE 3.1 packages from Redhat. Therefore, if the case is the former, I'll apologize for the somewhat angry tone below, and ask that it be considered reserved for the whiners
elsewhere in this thread.
I can't help but notice that KDE users seem to be demanding _privilieged_ treatement from Redhat, rather than merely the same treatment as other projects get.
Redhat have never provided packages for new gnome releases either. Redhat provides the same treatement to KDE as they give to every other app shipped with their distros - bugfixes only. New versions will be shipped with new distro releases.
And incidentally - If you check the updates for RedHat 8, you'll find they have released more fixes for KDE apps than they have for gnome. Of course you could argue that this might be because they shipped KDE in a buggier state. I can't comment since I don't use KDE. The fact, nevertheless, is worth noting.
Ever since the announcment last week of Bitstream making their Vera TTF's available to the Gnome foundation as well as any other Linux-related group who wants to package them... has there been any word on the KDE lists/forums about any plans to incorporate those fonts into future versions of KDE?
The first strike against Linux for me is the difficulty I've experienced simply changing the screen resolution and bit depth after an install, for this inconvenience I stay away.
Secondly, this problem with "packages", why is there not a standard executable design as in Windows that any one of us tards out here doesn't haven to question if a download is an rpm, a gzip, tar, etc?
Why the archaic nomenclature? CVS, Konq, RPM, VNC, GPG, CLI, VIM, XEMACS, GTK, Qt, Blended UI. Just what is all this, or better yet, who cares? Maybe it empowers geeks to have "Leet" speak to differentiate themselves, more to the point, to alienate and isolate themselves, but if this operating system is to ever have a chance at reaching the consumers desktop - the elitism and the lack of ease of use will have to disappear.
My best arguement would be to point to the advent of Windows and how it hurt Apple (elitism at it's worst in the 80's/early 90's) and SGI (extreme difficulty in maintaining and updating an end users machine 80's/early 90's).
If anyone can find a changelog showing the fixes (if any) between rc6 and the full 3.1 release, I'd appreciate it. KDE doesn't seem to want to share :)
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
The vnc desktop sharing idea is a pretty cool one (using it for support is an XP idea, i believe), and is something Gnome could do with. I think it'd be a good project for Red Hat to get involved with. So, if you purchase a high level of support from them, and you *really* can't solve a problem you're getting, you can call tech support and they could remotely do it for you in front of your eyes. Theres money to be made there I think.
As for KDE, well it's got a load of new features etc....but it's....still....ugly. Sorry.
i wish i was but oh well
Does anyone know off-hand if they got things cleaned up for a relase for BSD as well?
... as of this moment anyway..
I dont see it on the announce pages.. nor in current ports
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Can you finally vertically maximize windows again? It was dissapointing when they removed that for the 2.0 release.
What a nice thing to do. Konsider it for your new kpolicy!
Wah!
I just installed kde 3.1, looks great, feels great, yet one feature missing from kmail that I've been waiting for the longest time: filtering with imap mailboxes. It would be so nice to have this feature, without the need to switch to a different imap server, that supports filtering. here's the bug thread: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40647
--- d'oh
3.0 and 3.1 both have vertical(middle click maximize button) or horizontal maximize(right click maximize button).
Frankly I wasn't aware that it had ever been removed. But, if it was, it is definitely back in 3.x
The beta (badly compiled by mandrake) had nasty Ctrl+C bindings by default, I normally use that to send a break signal.
The concept of free/open source software gives you an opportunity to add this feature to the Kmail project yourself.
To quote ESR, it sounds like to me that you need to 'scratch that itch'.
Where is the little 'X' that lets you close a tab? Or are users expected to right click and select close?
Chris
On the other hand, kde was updated to 3.1 in OpenBSD ;-)
right before the announcement came out...
Also - you can right click on konq's toolbar and click "Configure Toolbars..." and add a "New Tab" and "Close Tab" button so that you get basically the same functionality as in moz.
That said. I don't like the way the tabs close in konq (they have some weird algorithm as to whether to go to the tab to the left or to the righ - I think it depends on how many tabs there are to the left or to the right of the tab you closed - but it is hard to tell). I want to just act like moz and go to the right all the time (makes more sense - newer stuff is to the right).
Derek
No kidding. But it's quite simple. In your theme directory, you've got a gtk-2 directory containing all of your theme elements, right? Now, at the same level as the gtk-2 directory, create a symlink to the gtk-2 directory named gtk. That's it! The only barrier to this working is compatibility between your theme and gtk1.
Go to the Mandrake cooker website:
3
:)
http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/cookerdevel.php
and download the rpm's from the primary mirror. Most of the release candidate.x packages have now been replaced with the release versions.
These are cooker packages, I have no idea about dependencies on other cooker packages, use at your own risk.
At the risk of sounding like a troll, I have to admit that I am sick and tired of Mandrake's foot dragging and their constant hacking on the system to tie it closer to their drakconf, while hiding the kde equivelent (kdefontinstaller, etc.).
is there anybody out here who has switched from Mandrake to something else? How does it compare and how has the distro been in terms of security and speed? Likewise, how good has the distro been on staying up on packages?
kool
On the otherhand, some people prefer one OS to the other and rambling about how quick one is quick to update is pointless. There are testing phases that must be insured. Use what you want to use, let others use what they want to use.
One day before the reported release date of Gnome 2.2!
LOL! Should have guessed!
I had started with KDE when it was back at version 1 on SuSE Linux 6.0. I thought it was WAY better than anything I had seen from any other distribution I had used (RedHat 4.2 was the version I used before the SuSE). However, with the release of Gnome 1.x, I was quite impressed with it's features, especially with the eye candy (typical of a Linux newbie). I thought I would see the last of KDE after that.
Since that day, I had been a Gnome user and couldn't stand using KDE for anything. Version 2.2 didn't do anything for me, so I always ended up switching back to Gnome.
Shoot to the present. Gnome 1.x is VERY long in the tooth, although most GTK programmers have stuck with that for the moment. Gnome 2.0 wasn't what I expected it to be, and I'm desperately hoping 2.2 will change the current state of Gnome. So what am I using in the meantime??? KDE 3.0.3. At first I was very hesitant, but I've grown to like it more and it seems more intuitive than Gnome so far.
I'm dying to try out KDE 3.1. So far, the screenshots have me sold. However, as I mentioned earlier Gnome 2.2 is almost here. If Gnome can match or best KDE in UI experience and speed (which is also a factor on my system), then I will go back. Otherwise, consider me a KDE user from here on in...
" An excellent post on why people should stay clear of RedHat. If you expect to have the latest Free Software from the coolest software projects you can not get that with RedHat. Thank you very much for your informative post on *why not to use RedHat*."
Fishing for a point? Your argument could just as easily apply to Debian. Hopefully your not using it.
Konqueror (and presumably KDE) seems to have its own set of standards for control keys. I can't tell you how annoying it is that "reload page" isn't control-R, but is instead mapped to a function key.
Do you really need reason for beer? Wingman Brewers
Does anyone know if there's a nice checkbox anywhere to get rid of the desktop icons yet? In KDE3.0 I still have to go through the BS of renaming "home" to ".home" and then changing the path to the trash to somwhere else to get ride of those two rediculous icons on the desktop that I never use.
(It's also a PITA to do this in XP -- the recycle bin can only be removed from the desktop with TweakUI)
Having no home and trash desktop icons makes working on the desktop so much more pleasant because when I grab a whole scoop of stuff with a wide swath of my mouse, I know that I'm only grabbing file that I'm currently working on.
The inability to remove desktop icons *at all* from Gnome2 is the reason I still can't even stand to try it out.
I am constantly impressed and impressed again with the progress of the KDE desktop. I think the only thing I pine for is more low level interoperability with a few Gnome based apps that I like using: Evolution, Mozilla, OpenOffice.
But I'm curious if the KDE developers are finding the limits of X11.
Would KDE motivate X12 or something even more radical that fits under Qt (even win32 fits underneath Qt)?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
And I will say it again..
I am a Gnome user I have to admit, this is not a KDE bashing post. Most of the reason I have clinged to Gnome with my YDL install is that, it looked the most polished the images and the whole interface looked fairly professional. Back when I first started using Gnome, KDE look very unpolished I could make it look nice but as soon as I would open the control panel the ugly unpolished icons and images threw me off again, I use OS X as well so you can understand me being a bit picky. Anyways after downloading and Installing this latest release I think I'm gonna be using KDE a lot more, it seems they have finally pulled their socks up and delivered something that looks very well polished and professional, it's not about Icons and themed windows because those have been changed, but the small things like the Splash Screen, the new wizards, the tabbed browser, the open and save dialogs.
Great job KDE, now I wonder how Gnome will counter such a great release.
Will we ever see a complete desktop environment? I think of a typical PC GUI desktop as one with folders, each one unique. I want each folder to reopen with its own original size, position, view setting and visual fluff. This was what I took for granted on OS/2's WPS. But on KDE, directories that I create on the desktop or elsewhere all open up in Konqueror in the same standard file management window. Sometimes I want a folder with links to apps or music or pictures or video: a single default view profile will not do. To me, files are better displayed in a list, JPGs as preview icons, etc. Sometimes, the full-featured window with sidebar and command line is great. Other times, I just want a simple window of icons. But there is no way to specify this for each directory.
I'm not sure if I am expressing myself clearly. I just want to express my wonder that for all the eye candy and features built into KDE, its basic file and desktop browsing seems so inflexible. It still seems so far from the original 1984 Mac in some ways.
Does it play nice with xloxk or does it still have it's own half baked screensaver?
Someone please tell me why they decided to roll their own screensaver when they had a perfectly good one already exsisting!
-- Many men would appreciate a woman's mind more if they could fondle it
Subject says it all...
Couldn't they come up with a reasonably stylish theme for their demos? For some reason, the more the KDE team tries to look better it just ends up looking more cartoonish.
That being said, it does have a vastly more sophisticated and clean software architecture and I applaud them for it.
KDE has enough feeping creaturitis. Its time for those guys to hire a decent desktop theme artist and make that the default theme. Why download and use a huge GUI that looks like crap?
Yes, I know you can change themes. I just think they need to focus on that. Not that I care that much. I'm running Cocoa.
"Although for this release these icons have been pre-rendered as PNG images, this very original and stunning icon set is implemented using the cutting-edge Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) technology. This technology will enable rendering these icons at any arbitrary size and color combinations in future releases."
... there's a little fuel for the fire ;)
or, you could use those SVG icons with gnome, which already supports SVG stock and desktop icons. In fact, gnome already supports SVG *widget themes*
> Konqueror (and presumably KDE) seems to have its own set of standards for control keys
Hmm.. F5is reload in IE (ctrl-R has different behavior.. it's refresh from cache). I really wouldn't call that non-standard, as IE is still the most dominant browser.
Anyways.. it's configureable.. in konq, settings menu->configure shortcuts
in the future everything will be so much better... lets not talk vapour, ok? evolution has such a major lead that it will take quiet a miricle for kontact to even come close. as for galeon/moz vs. konqueror, who is it that consistantly wins the awards? let me give you a hint, it aint konq. kde is a good environment, but the applications just dont match their gnome counterparts.
Yes, all the "fresh" and "non lame" ideas from the KDE kids. Window decorations, close and minimize buttons, a panel at the bottom of the screen (it can be moved too!), icons to represent files, a web browser. Neato. BUT THEMES! THEY ARE THE LIFEBLOOD OF THE INDUSTRY!
Themes are where it's at. Nothing like that in OS X to keep a loser like you entertained. You probably do spend a significant amount of your time downloading new themes for your computer. You probably also live in your parent's basement. You are also a fucking dork.
Apple cries softly, but won't expect you to forgive them.
My aren't we jealous :)
I can see you frothing at the mouth in my minds eye. Give it a rest already, GNOME lost because it just isn't any good.
Back when Microsoft and IBM were buddy-buddy pals, they were working on something called "CUA", a TLA that stands for "Common User Access" (do a net search on it for details -- there ARE plenty of books out there on it) This is where things like ctl-c for copy, ctl-v for paste, and the like came into being
Basically, Microsoft has proven the concept -- make the same keystrokes map to the same (conceptual) action all the time, and users will like/learn/adapt/adopt your software that much faster. Unfortunately, by the time you implement the majority of these "common" features, you're "desktop" environment tends to look pretty homogenous when set next to any other desktop. (of course, that is probably how it should be anyway -- the "desktop" environment is merely a way to get to the data on a system, not the system itself...)
Microsoft has pretty much always muddied the waters when it comes to the distinction between a "user interface" and the "system interface" [better known as the "operating system"...] By tightly integrating the user interface with the actual OS code, you create the impression that the user interface itself is indeed "the OS" -- IBM kept a tacit distinction between "OS/2" and the "Presentation Manager" [you could, for instance, build a text-based version of the PM and substitute it instead -- you end up with something that looks amazingly similar to Unix on a mainframe box...] Linux just proves that this "distinction" is certainly feasible -- the implementation of the user interface can be completely seperate from the OS (and as interchangeble as a set of tires on the family car...)
OK, I'm rambling now -- time to let the mod-trolls do their worst to these comments...
I have always used gnome, but every new version of kde makes me think about migrating to kde. I have some questions..
1.- I feel that both gnome and kde are getting very bloated.. does kde packages allow me an easy selection of what I want to install?
2.- Does kde have something like the graphical greeter in gnome (2.x only I belive)??
Rigo
Oki I give you a fair valid chance to refute above statements. Show the public that I was wrong and I will appologize for being wrong. Isn't this a deal ?
Ok, the name and all the "x"s that every app has in its name.
xterm, xeyes, xlogo, xmag, xwinfo, xev, xhost, etc...
Is there a way to turn it off? I use phoenix (not a pre-installed browser), and every time I select the address in the "Location" bar, it opens up a dialogue box asking if I want to start up Opera or Konqueror with the URL. And, since there's no way to disable it, it's just as bad as Clippy was!
Does anyone know if KDE3.1 allows this to be turned off? If so, I'll struggle through the dependancy hell to install tonight.
Free unix account: freeshell.org
"newer stuff is to the right"
Galeon has an option for drawing the tabs on any of the four sides of the page. Mozilla and Phoenix seem to lack this feature. I hope it's there in the new konq. BTW, I agree with you completely about tabs opening and closing in a consistent manner.
As a KDE developer, I would like to suggest that it is not in KDE's interest to want it gone.
Just as KDE has propelled GNOME to do better, GNOME helps us with new and interesting ideas. Likewise, they also have a lot of good code that gets borrowed from. Gnome helps KDE and KDE helps Gnome.
The same can not be said of MS. They constantly take without ever contributing to anybody but themselves.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I have listened on this forum with regards to many here, that suggest KDE is just copying windows features and not being innovative enough.
:-)
:-)
That, I don't think is a correct perspective, so let me explain.
Linux, X Windows, KDE are pretyt much works in progress. You have to understand that these three components, only this year, will reach the goals of providing certain kernel enhancements, display driver maturity API's, and with respect to KDE, a baseline feature set.
Baseline feature set, which means, the developers are just trying to get the basics completed, before any innovation can be done.
If you take the position, that many of these features are just being copied from Windows XP, such as the control panel for example, then you are assuming that Linux is as a desktop OS, has arrived.
It HAS NOT arrived, yet, so I think your view of what a baseline feature set which is required to get Linux onto the Desktop, and how those baselines overlap XP, may suggest feature copying.
For example, with regards to the control panel, I would suspect most users would want to manage thier fonts for example, from a control panel of some sort. If that is a baseline for the developers, for getting Linux ready for the desktop, then it just so happens to overlap with Windows feature set.
I don't think there is enough features, in the Linux Desktop arena, to warrant a comparison at this time with XP. As far as features go, KDE 3.1, still has a long way to go to catch up with Windows, before we can consider it to be something that can be a result from "copying" XP. Although improving, desktop data sharing between applications, is still a really big problem.
The standard baseline, for KDE developers are given to the public through roadmap feature set predictions for each release. That is the baseline. So, before you consider, "Hey those KDE guys are copying Windows XP, they use a mouse and they left click on icons!"
Consider the above, given the fact that the baseline is still very immature for KDE (GNOME is even worse). I suspect as more KDE apps are developed (as well as GNOME) the baseline will improve, along with standards for data sharing, etc.
IMHO, X, Linux and building a desktop for both, makes it sufficiently improbable we will end up with a XP clone desktop. However, like I said, obviously some of the features of the ultimate Linux desktop (KDE or GNOME) will by definition share many features with Windows, (i.e. you use a mouse, you left click on things, you can change your colors...and theme's..etc).
But a clone of XP? Lets hope not. In fact, if the KDE developers or GNOME people want a truly different way of looking at the desktop, Apple has made some truly interesting strides with Jaguar.
Perhaps they should start there and make that part of the baseline for either KDE or GNOME. One they get the basics down, they will have to consider exactly what innovating means.
Hopefully we agree.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Unless it has edge flipping back, which I believe K used to support but it was removed (!), I can't be bothered with it.
i use KDE, you ignorant jackass, what would i have to be jealous about? i also use many gnome apps like evolution, abiword and gnumeric and am highly anticpating the unparalled work of the gstreamer and gnome-db crew... you can have it both ways when you aren't a chump like yourself.
I'm pissed off that a great free software project like gnome gets such immature libelous treatment around here.
as for the death of gnome... you, sir, are either blind or stupid... who is SUN throwing their weight behind? How about HP? i'll give you a hint... it ain't kde.
KDE + Gnome are both gonna be around for a long, and that's great, all you chumps who keep talking about the death of one or the other are just stoking a stupid and tired flamewar, maybe its time to grow up and move out of your moms house. i know its scarey, but its worth it.
not a good idea.
Anyone SuSE 8.1 users here? YaST2 almost never seems to work anymore and I was wondering if this new version of KDE is available through it before I attempt to get the crappy thing to work.
I'd love to install Gentoo and be done with it but it seems like you need on machine to install and complile Gentoo on and another to hit the forums and figure whats going wrong with your attempted install..
*Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
The fact that KDE is ahead in certain areas kinda makes me want to focus on making gnome better.
Help out where help is needed...
At the risk of sounding like a troll, I have to admit that I am sick and tired of Mandrake's foot dragging and their constant hacking on the system to tie it closer to their drakconf, while hiding the kde equivelent (kdefontinstaller, etc.).
If you don't like the drakes and the mandrake control center then why use mandrake at all? Pretty much those are the big selling points. And the reason they use the drakes is that KDE does not offer configuration tools for everything and their configuration tools don't update configurations for other packages. In other words if you change your KDE news client using the KdE tools it won't necc. change other news clients on the system.
is there anybody out here who has switched from Mandrake to something else? How does it compare and how has the distro been in terms of security and speed?
I've used lots of them but Mandrake is still my favorite desktop / workstation distribution. But then again I like the Mandrake control center and the drakes. The real negative for Mandrake is their Q&A. In terms of security Mandrake is kind of weird because of their poor testing. Their security setting often make programs break so to get things to work you have turn down the security a lot. I don't consider that a problem since I just don't pass most ports through my home router. In terms of speed Mandrake compiles Pentium I optomized so for PI,PII,PIII, and PIV (3ghz or better) it should be about as good as you are going get. For other CPUs you'd do better with a source distribution.
Likewise, how good has the distro been on staying up on packages?
Mandrake is excellent on this front. Outside of the source distributions they are by far one of the fastest. Of course they have poor Q&A so... You are going to take a hit here.
Agreed. My 'desktop environment' is BlackBox + rxvt, because the KDE/GNOME are just terrible compared to OS X.
Wow! This was certainly never done before!
"> If RedHat would do the same for KDE as any one of the other distros does, that would please me to no end. Instead, they take our source code, they strip out the information about the project that provides it, they ruin our desktop by adding hacks to Qt that make it more unstable, they ship pre-release versions of the base libraries and applications that comprise the entire system, and I'm supposed to be happy with that? Please."
Speaking of reality. The only information that could even be said to remotely be "ripped" out was the KDE advert "About KDE" box. The credit and other boxes stayed. Also a funny thing about those QT "hacks". Remember were the defining line was for when a Linux distro got "Ohs and Ahs" for it's fonts. That's right, RedHat. Based on Keith Packard's Xft work. Qfont went by the wayside, and the KDE group has been bitching about it ever since. The question the KDE group should be asking themselves. Why didn't we and TT come up with those good looking fonts, instead of waiting for a commercial distro like RedHat to do it? The rest is following the LSB. Mosfet's (they took away my konqueror) certainly didn't help, as well as the "Font Installer" thing. And of course the application decision got plenty in a bunch, even though Lycoris uses Mozilla and Mozilla mail as the browser and E-mail client. Kmail and Konqueror isn't even installed by default.
There's also something the KDE group should keep in mind. They are being watched. Not just by enemies obviously, but by independent developers who are looking at the broo-ha they've kicked up thrice so far, and asking themselves "Do I want to get involved with that?" to companies who say "That could be us."
Gnome was changed too, but you, oddly hear very little. Also for businesses their license is more friendly (LGPL). It doesn't take much to sway people over to the other side. Just one more outburst.
er... it's surely it's 'xemacs and gvim' or 'emacs and vim'.
if you're gonna argue... argue right!
Are there any plans to implement dynamic keybindings (where you hover over a menu item, press a key, and it changes the binding - no app support necessary) in KDE? That's one of the things I really like about GNOME.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Why exactly is VNC so popular on X11/Unix systems? All it seems to offer is a cheap hack to implement features X11 has had since the beginning, only its considerably slower...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
this was tried, almost universally despised by users, and then promptly removed. there's a Configure Shortcuts dialog in all apps that have shortcuts for you to define that works well.
Just type "apt-get install kdebase kdm koffice"
unecessary. go to konqueror's web browsing behaviour control panel and select "Open links in new tab instead of new window". this doesn't catch windows opened via javascript, but it does catch those opened with target="whatever"
I looked at the screens and I can't help but notice that the standard icon/widget themes just seem a little gaudy to me. Besides, I enjoy using Gnome too much to switch to KDE.
SIGFAULT
It is a good thing that popup stopper isn't enabled by default. There are some sites (like my online homework) whose necessary popups are blocked by mozilla's popup blocker (haven't tested it on konq). I know how to toggle it, and I do love it, but it would be a bad idea to have people swear at linux (yes, linux, not konq or mozilla or kde, linux) because it doesn't pop a damn window up. It's not hard to turn it on, but joe sevenpack isn't going to debug stuff he's just trying out. "It doesn't work."
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
just to clarify, in case someone misses it, KDE libraries are licensed under the LGPL or BSD-type licenses. Qt is the only bit under the QPL (BSD-friendly) / GPL dual license in KDE.
So, "pop-ups" are the only use of pop-up windows, eh?
Keep dreaming buddy. I know some (bad) sites that are JUST pop-up windows, where they "reload".
OGL screensaver as wallpaper? Been able to do that in X11 for a long time... Glad to see you've caught up.
So what is RedHat going to do with their next release?
How do you people manage to walk and chew gum at the same time. No wonder we have AC's and dedicated troll accounts. This place is worthless to have any sort of discussion. Instead of modding me as a Troll, you could say well if you do this you can update your FreeBSD system early. Or at least do like one person did and suggest something else like you are 37331, better than modding as troll for the joy of it.
what about improved stability? Last time I tried kde (wait, last week) I only experienced a very pretty mess of things that crashed.
Hi! I've compiled KDE 3.1 using Konstruct on my Red hat 7.3 box and it all works fine except for a rather weird problem with Konqueror! Take a look at tis image : http://www.navero.co.uk/misc/erro-konqueror.jpg Notice the toolbar in Konqueror.... I've tried removing the ~/.kde directory but it's still the same! KDE 3.1 was intalled to /opt/kde3.1 and not the normal RH KDE folders so it wouldn't mess with the existing KDE.
Yep, it does! The default KDE theme in 3.0 was definetly ugly, but I just installed 3.1 and...WOW!
It looks absolutely stunning. I think this is the end of
all those OS X zealots talking about how much better OS X looks than Linux.