Slashdot Mirror
KDE 3.2 Alpha 1 Finally on FTP
An anonymous reader cut-and-pastes from the announcement: "Stephan Kulow finally managed to get the last bits of the KDE 3.2 Alpha 1 codenamed 'Brokenboring' including KDevelop 3.0 Alpha 6 on the ftp server (the mirrors should soon pick it up). There won't be any binary packages for this release because the KDE 'P(a)i' release is coming out soon. Everyone using it is asked to compile it with --enable-debug, so we can get valuable feedback. There is a new unstable version of Konstruct to install it."
about time, my gentoo kde might work now
Both, all the boring parts are broken, and all the broken parts are boring.
It's trying to compete with XP for the desktop.
You guys are so incredible it's just funny.
You say that useability is the leading cause of failure among adoption, yet KDE brings it and then you say it works like XP. That's a big smack in the face for the KDE developers, and I've been following the CVS. The verdict is in:
It rocks.
You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
It broke when I compiled it on xp
Building the alpha version with an unstable Konstruct... I opt for both.
The progress that these guys have made in 5 years and the sheer volume of quality code is simply amazing. What are these guys doing right as compared to all the other projects? They even stick to their development and release schedules better than most commercial companies. And despite everyone calling for the death of C++, KDE is the shining example of what can be accomplished in that language. I seriously doubt it could have been constructed in any other language and produce as quick and relatively error-free code as these guys have produced.
This is awsome, with a name like this how can it be anything other than... er... great, hmmm, what a name.
"GNOME is a great community project"
Equals:
"Without the backing of Red Hat and Sun, who do almost all of the work, GNOME would be like FVWM or AfterStep -- a few hard-core users but no major developments ongoing. KDE is far more popular, and yet doesn't have massive companies paying programmers for it! KDE is a true community project; GNOME is only surviving because of money. If Red Hat and Sun go down, would GNOME survive? Not likely."
anyone know if someone is working on a native port of kde to osx?
The KDE team have done a fantastic job at providing the necessary tools for even a slightly tech savvy user to upgrade to the latest development release.
Checkout Konstruct to learn how to run a simple script to download, verify, compile and install the components to get KDE working on your machine.
Has anyone got a link to some screenshots?
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
I try to download it the other day, but my KBrowser was having KTrouble downloading the KFiles from the KFtp.
Man, and 3.1.3 finally finsihed compiling on my 233-MMX just yesterday...
O-well...
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
I think it would be advantageous to provide a Live CD with the alpha/beta releases, so that people can get into debugging the code straight away (I for instance, cannot download, compile and use KDE easily due to disk space, bandwidth problems. I could however, use a Knoppix version with the alpha release to test around).
Searching around shows the DragOS Project, but I haven't had time to check it. Does anyone know of similar efforts?
I just heard on the radio that Digitalunity's sense of humor was found dead in his Maine home, at the age of 54.
You know the rest.
It's a joke!
And further, it was a shot at XP, not KDE.
That said, for my wife and other non technical users, KDE is wonderful. I hope the stable release comes soon.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
"The code is quite rough in many places"
Hmmm, as many wise developers have said to me, it only takes about another 10-20% longer to write decent well documented code. When you think of how long it will save you debugging it might save you time.
Everyone who's going to post a lame joke based on the fact that many KDE apps start with "K", please post them under this thread.
Here, I'll start: "hey, didja ever notice how a lot of KDE apps start with 'K'?! What's the deal with that? Ha! Ha! Ha! Those KDE guys aren't very 'K-creative' Ha! Ha! Get it??" There, that's about the best one I've ever read, actually.
Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
Moderated as troll? How about factually accurate, very reasonably expressed with no flaming or insults, on topic, and an important issue?
KDE will be stronger for honestly confronting the issue than it will be by some of its supporters misguidedly trying to suppress any discussion of it at all.
Moderators, please reverse this abuse of the system.
Eric Laffoon recently made comments in his story about meeting Wil Wheaton statements about GUI capability in Quanta 3.2. If, so the 3.2 release could be a very important milestone for KDE, because it will mean that Dreamweaver finally has competition on Linux for those web developers still stuck on using WYSIWYG html editing tools.
My journal has hot
is this some kind of crap their teaching in college now?
Kolab is looking interesting, and if you combine this with Kontact you could just have the real Lotus Notes killer. With MS Exchange support, the extensibility of Kontact would make it easy to integrate in a Lotus Notes environment as well.
Ostensibly these look to be part of KDE 3.2, has anyone done the download/compile/install yet that can confirm/deny this.
This is great stuff, btw. I'm excited that KDE is tackling these kinds of applications, I may just switch back from Moz once the kinks have been worked out.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
Canopy funds Trolltech (makers of QT and KDE) and SCO and Canopy Group members sit on the board of both.
Oops. Who's surviving on tainted money?
I've tried Konstruct for each stable release since 3.0 and I think it still needs alot of work. I had problems with libraries for kmultimedia and especially for java support. To spite havings Sun's latest java installed and the environment set, konstruct would never build past java support.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
if it fixes the problems I've had with KDE 3.1. When I right click a menu bar to choose something, (usually move to another desktop), the menu disappears when the mouse moves down over it. And if you click the box on the upper left side, the first time I pull down over it it desappears, (though it stays the second time). Also, though I don't know if it's an X problem or a KDE problem, the GUI locks up with only the mouse moving, (it's not possible to interract with any windows or the kicker). I love KDE but these problems usually arize every day.
I do security
Quite right. If trolltech would come out and say "yes we are partially owned by Canopy but we disagree with them and we are kicking Canopy members off of our board of directors and wish to renogtiate our relationship with Canopy" then that would be more than good enough for most Linux fans. Their silence is deafening.
Trolltech CAN NOT remain silent on this issue. They owe a clarification to the Linux community.
With a name like "Brokenboring", I'm not sure I'm all that excited to try it.
I had a close look at post 3.0 KDE at the LinuxTag earlier this year. I'm still very much a windowmanager fan with E, Fluxbox and Windowmaker on my favorites list. But after I had a guy from the KDE booth show me all the stuff that I can change and activate to get KWin (KDEs WM) away from the default of emulating MS Windows crappines and closer to E/Windowmaker/Fluxbox usability features I thougt I'd give a pure KDE enviroment a chance on Debian Woody with KDE 3.1. It o\/\/nZ0Rz nearly every other desktop I've worked with.
The conlusion is that with a proper setup there is no doubt what so ever that KDE kicks MS Windows up and down the street usability wise in every possible detail. It takes me about 30 seconds to get any Windows desktop user conviced that MS days as a monopoly are counted.
Further on: Ralph Nolden showed previews of what brewing with the 3.2 version of KDevelop and some other goodies. Apart from built-in support of something like a dozen and more programming languages there is a lot of stuff that will cause me to migrate from 3.1 to 3.2 asap.
To me it's quite evident: If OSS is the hauting horde of MS executives sleepless nights, the current and future KDE is the chief Boogieman of them all.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
"their teaching"?
Bloody hell. The word is THEY'RE, OK? You obviously never went to college, twat.
have they developed a tool to konstruct konstruct?
DVD Ripping, Divx, VCD, SVCD under Linux
dr. king undoubtedly authored his comments. they are widely used in teaching all over the wwworld.
the gnat mentality of your reply, is more LIEk what's being 'taught' buy the corepirate nazi commershills.
...vanity of vanities, all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labor which he taketh under the sun?--Qoheleth
The genome/human nature are relatively stable.
We must love and cherish our idealists, for they keep us from complacency, and try not to get too bummed when their rose colored glasses get smashed by reality.
1. I love KDE - when we run Linux desktops, they are Mandrake/KDE desktops
2. The KDE project is a quality project, I never liked GNOME's politics. The KDE team had the "harmony" project to create a GPL'd Qt replacement, just in case, the GNOME team could have worked on that instead of going after KDE in a holy war.
3. We have one developer licensed on Qt (triple platform) and one other that is probably being added to Qt development.
HOWEVER
The KDE team was a bunch of Trolltech guys. At least in the beginning, those pushing KDE development were from Trolltech.
The Trolltech team was out to create a cross-platform API and push it. KDE was their way of creating a Unix desktop using their libraries. The whole plan was to make Unix desktops credible (this was in the days where engineers would have a Solaris Workstation for engineering, and a Windows desktop for Groupware/Productivity apps), so that they could sell Qt. This was also before MS Office completely owned the market (remember, Office 95 was their first big hit, and it wasn't until the time of Office 97 that MS had a defacto productivity monopoly b/c Wordperfect died).
The KDE team was formed by Trolltech to create a marketplace for a Unix/Win32 cross-platform toolkit.
In addition, Motif/CDE had an established market. Trolltech was pushing Qt/KDE as a replacement, going after the entrenched Unix market. The goal was to push to Engineering focused Motif/CDE out for a Qt/KDE environment that would do productivity AND Engineering. That would let corporations build their internal applications (where people spent a LOT of time) in a cross-platform manner, for the engineers to be able to use.
Alex
it will mean that Dreamweaver finally has competition on Linux
That would first require that Dreamweaver be available on Linux, wouldn't it?
I'm using Gnome for no apparent reason and I really would like something like KDesktop. Instant sharing, that's useful when developing with people on other physical locations and using other platforms.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
[This is an update of my earlier post on this subject, which I won't link to because this is much better. Mod me up if you want to protest against the gnaming kraziness; don't mod me down if you're humor-challenged.]
KDE Developers Anonymous
Hello group, my name is Klark and I'm addikted to the letter K... As is the kase with many of you, I've always been krazy about komputers and like many of my fellow komp sci students, I was looking forward to a suksessful kareer in the field of information and kommunikation teknology... but my troubles started when I diskovered open source software and the wonderful kommunity around it and got kwite seriously into KDE development... At first I didn't komprehend the effekt this would kome to have on my life as a koder - it wasn't really konspikuous initially when I started to spell more and more kommon words with a k, sometimes even with a kapital K... But then my kolleagues began to wonder why I kouldn't spell korrektly. They asked me, "Are you on krack? Kut the krap!"... some even went as far as kalling me kompletely krazy! What kould I do? I must admit, I'm a kolerik person, even kwick-tempered you might say... okkasionally I would get inkredibly angry and kuss and kurse at my ko-workers... People should judge me by the kontent of my karakter instead of just kriticizing what they konsider kurious spelling! Other times, I would just retreat into a korner and kry kwietly by myself... However, it wasn't until they kicked me out of my kalligraphy kourse at kommunity kollege and I lost my job on akkount of my unkooperative konduct that I finally realized I had to kome to terms with my problem... so here I am, this is my koming-out... I know my kase is a komplex one, but I do hope it is kurable...
Stop whining. It WON'T happen.
Windows has one GUI because it's made by one company with one central management. KDE and Gnome are different teams, that work in different ways, use different languages and have different ideas. To expect that just because you think one desktop is needed that they'll leave whatever they're doing and start coding your ideal desktop is foolish. Deal with it, most OSS developers work on things because they like working on them, not because they're working for the common good.
Besides, there can't be a perfect WM. I don't want KDE 3 on a P166, there I'd use IceWM or Enlightenment. I don't want IceWM on my dual Athlon either, where I can use that extra power for something useful. I also don't like Gnome, while many Gnome users probably hate KDE.
Heck, how does anybody expect that we can somehow get independent developers to agree on one unique project when the world still hasn't managed to agree on one unique measure system?
It's odd really. In the poll that's here right now the options are in kg, and half of the posts in it is whining: "But where Americans! Why isn't it in pounds?". Then go to a KDE discussion and somehow now half of the discussion is whining about that we need a single standard.
you go ahead & vaux on about making monIE if you must.
the planet/population is in crisis mode. the lights are coming up now.
you can pretend all you want. our advise is to be as far away as possible from the thieving/murderous corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent, when the big flash occurs. you wouldn't want to get any of that evile on you?
that's just practical sense. we'll save our 'idealisms' for more secure times.
KDE is made by Trolltech, a Canopy Group company.
KDE is not made by Trolltech, but by a network of around 200 regular contributing individuals around the world. Two or three of these work on Qt for Trolltech, and contribute to KDE in their spare times.
(Yes, I've been trolled, so what)
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Matthias Ettrich and Warwick Allison (just to name a couple of KDE developers) were open source KDE developers first and only after their great acheivements in KDE were they hired by TrollTech. The same is true for most of their other employees - they cut their teeth on the open source KDE platform first. The original KDE team was pretty indifferent to licensing issues and they only cared about using the best written GUI software platform available at the time, namely Qt.
TrollTech is not the self-serving evil company you make it out to be. They actually care about writing quality code - and it shows in their products.
And no, I'm not a TrollTech employee. I've just used their software in the past commercially and was very impressed by it.
>>That would first require that Dreamweaver be available on Linux, wouldn't it?
Only in the same way that MS Office would first need to be available on Linux for there to be any OSS competition for it. Ummmm... I can think of at least one reasonably significant OSS project that competes with MS Office on Linux despite there being no MS Office port to Linux (yet!)
If you find a better thing, switch to it.
For those like myself who can't program in C++, but who can install this alpha version, or any other versions before 3.2 final, there is a lot you can do to help KDE:
* Report bugs. If you find something crashes, doesn't work as you'd expect it to, or there's a feature you think is missing, report it at http://bugs.kde.org.
* Submit documentation. Lots of apps in KDE will have out of date documentation, or none at all. If you understand how to use just such an app, consider writing documentation for it and submitting it to KDE.
* Submit translations. If American English isn't your native language, consider translating the text in applications to languages you feel confident with.
More can be found at: http://www.kde.org/support
While "o\/\/nZ0Rz" in this context has a little touch of humor to it I actually used it as an very short extremisation of "is better than" or a simular normal english term. /.s audience, no?. :-)
The fact that you jumped to it actually proves that I was right in my choice of words for
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
To be precide, two or three Trolltech employeers work on KDE for Trolltech as well. Trolltech do this because KDE provides such a huge market and massive publicity for their product, Qt.
But yes, you're right, KDE is not made by Trolltech, and Trolltech the company doesn't decide anything to do with KDE.
When did I call TrollTech evil? I am a happy customer, sending them thousands of dollars/year, and using Linux desktops based upon KDE?
They DO care about writing quality code. They also have HEAVILY supported KDE development to create a market for their API as cross-platform.
What about that is evil?
The fact that the resulting desktop is made available for free under the GPL makes it great. They provide for "free," albeit restricted for development, environemtn, to push their product.
What a great side effect of the invisible hand! In their creation of a market, everyone gets free benefits.
The only thing that I would like from Qt is a better RAD environment to work with. One of our project upgrades was going to be moved from Cocoa to Qt, which was cancelled because certain limitations in using Qt for RAD development. I look forward to new versions of Qt, they keep getting stronger.
BTW: as a commercial licensee of Qt, I am REALLY happy that a lot of the KDE core is on Trolltech's payroll. Each version of Qt incorporates more functionality that was handled at the KDE level, and KDE is upgraded to use the new Qt. That makes the features available to those of us wanting Qt's cross platform benefits.
The Qt/Mac GPL release was also great (although, obviously, with Panther including X11 in the OS, they had no choice, as Qt/X11 on Panther would hit the dreadful "good enough" level without Qt on board). I look forward to the Qt/Mac KDELIB port being in the main tree, and being able to install KDE apps under OS X for my power use.
Alex
Let me add to your words that:
- QT is made by Trolltech
- QT is GPL'd
- ergo QT can be forked any day
So no problem for KDE here.
If parent.parent has any problem with Canopy owning Trolltech, why doesn't he buy it?
I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
Now that Mandrake is at 9.2RC2. It looks like my next KDE upgrade will be to 3.1.3
When the next Mandrake release is out I hope to be using KDE 3.2 or better.
But with all this talk about Konstruct I may give that a try on a test box.
With so many applications built into KDE (KOffice, Konqueor, Games, etc.) you could almost have a nice little distro based entirely on KDE.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
Debian Sid users can get the latest kde debs from the cvs here.
Who cares if they're for or against anything? If they got eaten by rabid marmosets tomorrow, KDE and QT would still be GPL licensed. Until and if the GPL is declared revokable by supreme courts in every nation that used KDE, it's de facto a commons project.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Prepare to wait a full day in process of compilation, if you have a slow machine, for example an old Celeron.
Another route is Knoppix with KDE CVS. Never tried it though, YMMV, yada yada...
Btw I don't think KDE should take all the honour for Konstruct. After all it was "inspired by GARNOME" - good to see idea exchange across the major Free desktops.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
You miss my point. "Compete" implies that it's targetting the same audience. It's like saying American television programs compete with Japanese ones for advertising dollars. Linux computers are unable to run Dreamweaver at all (without WINE or a dual-boot, anyway), so there's no "competition" to speak of.
If Quanta were available on Windows, it would be a competitor for Dreamweaver on Windows -- but still not on Linux.
if you look at the rdf for /. right now it looks like this article is about KDE 3.2 Aplha 1 getting named Broken Boring... like that's some major news item. well...
...
I thought it was amusing
<description>
An anonymous reader cut-and-pastes from the announcement: "Stephan Kulow finally managed to get the last bits of the KDE 3.2 Alpha 1 codenamed 'Brokenboring'
</description>
Jeremy Logan's Website.
Stop whining. It WON'T happen.
Fine, then stop whining when Linux gains only miniscule desktop market share as a result.
"Sufferin' succotash."
KDE is made by Trolltech, a Canopy Group company.
If we abandon a great open source desktop environment because evil powers aquired a few percent of the company that makes the GPL'd toolkit on which it depends, then the terrorists have already won!
I'm with you 99%.
Yes, it will be in there and Nicholas is working on VPL support. That is the WYSIWYG functionality that we're all awaiting. Both Quanta AND KDevelop have _drastically_ improved in 3.2.
Also, keep an eye out for Juk (KDE's answer to ITunes) in this new release. It is an incredibly cool jukebox program that has automatic tagging and vFolder playlists.
The Harmony project was about creating a *L*GPL'ed Qt replacement.
Just plain ugly ... but with Havoc, Gnome has gone down the hill too.
Time we all use the beautyful Athena Widget Set for X again.
That sounds like you had problems with the tarballs' configure scripts and thus qualify for a bug report at http://bugs.kde.org. Don't expect Konstruct to fix those magically.
But won't that make KDE run really slowly?
Oh, wait...
Well yeah, about the same time longhorn comes out you mean?
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
Yeah, their's obviously some people who never took there chance to get they're butts into college.
Actually I prefer IceWM or xfce not because of some old hardware(although sometimes this can be an issue, I'm on a laptop with 800Mhz Coppermine), but rather becasue I really don't have anything against installing all the software I need by myself, thus I'm looking for a Windows Manager not an entire desktop solution.
On the "One desktop to rule them all" rant, I'm certainly not the only one to think that it's not so bad at all to have diversity "even" on the Desktop choice. Yes, some users gets confused, yes, there're compatibility problems(heck, I hate when one really *needs* to run a gtk program on KDE PC or QT one on Gnome station), but at the end I tend to agree with you that people should "deal with it" and adopt one or another. The futur will show if we'll have a "winner"...
1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
The target audience is web developers in this case, not Windows or Linux users. If the only thing keeping a web developer from switching to Linux is a web development package comprable to Dreamweaver, then any such package is indeed competing with Dreamweaver.
- b
You kan get kikked out of the KDE Developers Anonymous for talking like that. You write 'ski' with a k, while it obviously should be written with a k, other spelling errors: sourke, krakk, kwikk, kritikizing, kikked, kondukt.
you can pretend/get intoxicated all you want/are able to. that will not change the process.
we're (most of US) already in more 'trouble' than we could ever have imagined.
you'll (as if by magic) get over your need to mock/criticize everything that you don't understand, as the lights come up.
Ignorance must be so comforting. You are a fool. I pity you.
Watch abysmal TV We can now that there is BBC America
Get a FREE Sony PS3
I guess that's why Canada has such an incredibly high violent crime rate, considering that handguns are extremely difficult to own.
Oh, wait a second.
Got that error when kompiling! Anybody know what's wrong?
Ok, cool but all this talk of the corporate gnome is misleading too.
...blah..blah.. It is damn good. Kudos to KDE.
Both projects have support for people who work for -gasp!- corporations and I say so what?
KDE has trolltech and I thought some SuSE folks contribute as well.
In the end, it is a big yawn. Both groups have help from people who get paid by corporations. No big deal in my eyes.
I prefer gnome but so what? KDE is excellent and more mature and has been around longer
Is there going to be 'by date' sort anytime soon for Konqueror? There might even be one already for all I know....
"The number of Unix installations has grown to ten, with more expected." (Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd ed.; june 1972)
$ nslookup kde.org
Server: xxxx
Address: xxx
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: kde.org
Address: 80.232.38.131
$ nslookup trolltech.com
Server: xxxx
Address: xxxx
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: trolltech.com
Address: 80.232.38.135
Wowzers. Your first stat about England is just ignorant bullshit; there are infinitely fewer gun crimes in the UK than America. Go and read up instead of just spouting ill-informed garbage.
Jeesh, you yanks.
65% of the stock is owned by employees.
They could easily take a stand against Canopy.
Best they could do is of another "me too". wtf?
They could really make a stand and show what they're
made of.
I'm not in the same league as Ray Noorda.
In the KDE control center, open 'Accessibility', 'Keyboard shortcuts', then double-click on any action you wish to associate a key or key sequence with. In the custom keystroke dialog, check 'multiple keys', and then type in your key sequence.
:) Right now it still feels a tad incomplete. You can only bind key sequences to predefined window manager actions or application actions -- no way to open Konqueror (or Mozilla) on Slashdot.org, for example.
For example, I've made all my window operations, Ctrl+W+something. "Move window to next desktop" is Ctrl+W then Ctrl+right. Previous desktop is Ctrl+W then Ctrl+left. Maximize and minimize are, you guessed it, Ctrl+W then Ctrl+up and down, respectively. Very convenient!
Apparently the entire system will be replaced in KDE 3.2, as another poster pointed out, though, so you can also wait and see how much improvement that brings.
-- B.
This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.