lots of people are writing and talking about following laws, this law, that law etc. The discussion really is a specific instance of more fundamental questions:
When a law doesn't make sense, should people follow it? At what point do you realize that the motivations of the people creating laws are not aligned with their interests?
the "don't complain" message is exactly how
we got into most of the mess people are in
today. Lets sit back and say nothing while
large corporations, (whose only motivation is
to TAKE money from everyone it can) dictactes
how we live and what we can and can't do.
You are an indoctrinated, unthinking parrot -- my sig applies to you more than most.
I hate to be naive here (but I am)... why do we need MORE laws to control us? What about those magic fingers of the markets?...you know -- the ones that are supposed to push products toward what people demand.
It's not clear to me that legislating software through increased liability is the best way to get security.
I didn't say the US system was unable to produce technological advances. In fact, it's quite good at that. The US has whole lots of very well trained workers for the continued metastasis of economic growth.
In my opinion, schooling in its current form.. (at least in the US) does almost as much harm as it does good.
The MOST profound effect of our school system is to very effectivly prevent almost all people under the age of 18 from being a part of the force force. Imagine what would happen if tomorrow we said "OK, after age 13, school is optional. Take it now, or come back and get it later."
Our economy would be crushed by a 300% jump in unemployment.
One could never do this experiement (as presented) in the United States (and probably other. more controlled societies as well) because you couldn't get Human Subjects Approval with out informed consent.
It would be interesting to get some sort of grip the real long term effects on the kids will be.
""" ... if you buy a newspaper, magazine, or periodical, or if you turn on the TV, you should practically expect advertisements by now. """ I agree completely with this statement. That is exactly my point. It doesn't make much sense.... and just because its the norm, and I should expect it, doesn't mean I asked for or wanted it.
--
""" Welcome to life, buddy. Suck it up and deal with it. """ I like to call this the mantra of futility. It is said by people who are unwilling to really think about the roblems in our society; the unassailable. It typically appears close in conversation to the mantra of escape , or the deserted island suggestion.
Following this advice perpetuates many of the problems I see in the world.
""" This sends a clear message that there are consequences if companies allow their resources to further copyright infringement,'' said Matt Oppenheim, RIAA Senior Vice President, Business and Legal Affairs. """
The message I heard:
Large, money-laden industry group can use a broken legal system to easily take even more money from others by leveraging antiquated and ridiculous idea-ownership laws that need sorely to be changed.
take a minute and ask yourself seriously: does this make sense: """ When you see adds everywhere else, there is a
silent agreement: you see the adds but you get some sort of compensation in return. """
I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying -- just asking people to think: does this tacit contract make sense? Would it not be be better to simply pay for things we want?
you have no choice to whom you enter this contract with.
you have no ability not to enter it.
in many cases, the motivation of the advertiser (newpaper, tv, billboard owner) is not to give you compensation, but simply to make (er.. take) more money. NBC makes a sh!tload on selling ads. That money goes to the shareholders of NBC.
often, like in billboards and spam, you get zero compensation
ads promote behavior, that en masse, is unsustainable long term
""" I don't see the logic in your argument...what is an alternative that doesn't rely on the goodwill of anyone/everyone (one bad apple/sneaky business spoils that route) and also presents a marketplace that is free of censorship and prohibitive legislation?
Our system isn't perfect, but the solution is not to legislate our problems away, but to EDUCATE them away.
That sounds pretty hoakey, as well as extremely idealistic, but there's no other way. Our society is based on the idea that man is a rational animal striving for his (her) own best interest...treat people like this, and they will behave that way. """
your reasoning and assumptions are founded entirely within the current way that we live. If you continue to hold on to them, the conclusion "there is no other way" is inevitable. you have to think bigger.
I never wrote anything about legislating changes. I agree with you that education is first. What people need to realize when they are fixing problems and when they are fixing symptoms. Ads are symptoms. Consumerism is a symptom.
As for extreme idealism... Well. No one but extremists really do much in "today's world."
I agree with you. Spam is a particulaly bad form of ads. However, if they were taxed and used to pay for my Internet service, they would simply fall into the bucket of all the other ads driven drivel out there.
My statements were a bit outside just spam on the Internet.
My point was that we are unwillingly forced to view ads by participating in daily life. The fact that they are used to pay for the service is important, but not essential. There could be lots of other ways to pay for services instead of progrmming masses to buy stuff.
I have had similar results with filtering >95% sensitivity and specificity. I use both spam assassin and junkfilter in series.
I check my spam box 1/week. Its not really ther time -- its the distraction that gets me. when I am reading the spambox its easy. D D D D, hmm read, D D D D...
it seems to me that we all just accept ads as "part of the way we live"
Each time I try to get education, entertainment, or travel anywhere, I am bombarded with unsolicited ads. ads that generally fuel the out-of-control cosumerism all around us.
Read a magazine, get ads.
Watch the news on TV, get ads.
Walk down the street, get ads.
Read the newspaper, get ads.
Watch entertainment TV, get ads.
Even if I want to, I am FORCED to see ads. To be programmed. (don't tell me to go live on an island -- I don't want to do that either).
The thing I think is that we don't have to have it this way. I know its radical but imagine for a moment a world where there were no unsolicited ads . This is a real stretch -- many of the assumptions about normal life start to break down if you take this assumption and go with it. We DO have the technology to provide everyone all the information they could want whenever they want to buy something, yet we don't. We make all the businesses compete for visual and auditory bandwidth, annoying the he!l out of everyone.
one-fifth was actually bought and paid for. That's just being dishonest.
Why? When did we all get the assumptions that
1) ALL music someone has is something they SHOULD HAVE to pay for?
2) its OK to follow laws that do not make any sense, especially if they are bought outright by big corporations in a successful attempt to keep themselves in control of YOU.
My answers:
1) when the only music you CAN get legally is that which you can get by paying for it.
Slashdot Mirror
lots of people are writing and talking about
following laws, this law, that law etc. The
discussion really is a specific instance of
more fundamental questions:
When a law doesn't make sense, should people
follow it? At what point do you realize
that the motivations of the people creating
laws are not aligned with their interests?
I purchased a shrink wrap machine years
ago. sits out in my garage. I've never
had to worry about returning anything in
a plastic wrapped box!
the "don't complain" message is exactly how
we got into most of the mess people are in
today. Lets sit back and say nothing while
large corporations, (whose only motivation is
to TAKE money from everyone it can) dictactes
how we live and what we can and can't do.
You are an indoctrinated, unthinking parrot -- my sig applies to you more than most.
trashing = profitable
cleaning = not profitable
In a world where money is more valueble than people, quality of life, and experience... this is not too surprising.
I hate to be naive here (but I am)... why do we ...you
need MORE laws to control us? What about
those magic fingers of the markets?
know -- the ones that are supposed to push
products toward what people demand.
It's not clear to me that legislating software
through increased liability is the best way to
get security.
thoughts?
I didn't say the US system was unable to produce technological advances. In fact, it's quite good at that. The US has whole lots of very well trained workers for the continued metastasis of economic growth.
I wish there was an easy way to send that message to companies every time I delete my cookies.
In my opinion, schooling in its current form .. (at least in the US) does almost as much harm as it does good.
The MOST profound effect of our school system is to very effectivly prevent almost all people under the age of 18 from being a part of the force force. Imagine what would happen if tomorrow we said "OK, after age 13, school is optional. Take it now, or come back and get it later."
Our economy would be crushed by a 300% jump in unemployment.
its interesting...
One could never do this experiement (as
presented) in the United States (and
probably other. more controlled societies
as well) because you couldn't get Human
Subjects Approval with out informed
consent.
It would be interesting to get some sort of
grip the real long term effects on the
kids will be.
oops that is
o me.html
http://bowser.stanford.edu/workfromhome/workfromh
still nothing on second page -- does anyone else have it?
http://bowser/workfromhome/workfromhome.html
only first page, still trying to get second. index is on.
10 days to blackout
""" ... and just because its the norm, and I should expect it, doesn't mean I asked for or wanted it.
... if you buy a newspaper, magazine, or periodical, or if you turn on the TV, you should practically expect advertisements by now.
"""
I agree completely with this statement. That is exactly my point. It doesn't make much sense.
--
"""
Welcome to life, buddy. Suck it up and deal with it.
"""
I like to call this the mantra of futility. It is said by people who are unwilling to really think about the roblems in our society; the unassailable. It typically appears close in conversation to the mantra of escape , or the deserted island suggestion.
Following this advice perpetuates many of the problems I see in the world.
"""
This sends a clear message that there are
consequences if companies allow their resources
to further copyright infringement,'' said
Matt Oppenheim, RIAA Senior Vice President,
Business and Legal Affairs.
"""
The message I heard:
Large, money-laden industry group can use a
broken legal system to easily take even more
money from others by leveraging antiquated
and ridiculous idea-ownership laws that need
sorely to be changed.
take a minute and ask yourself seriously: does this make sense:
"""
When you see adds everywhere else, there is a
silent agreement: you see the adds but you get
some sort of compensation in return.
"""
I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying -- just asking people to think: does this tacit contract make sense? Would it not be be better to simply pay for things we want?
you have no choice to whom you enter this contract with.
you have no ability not to enter it.
in many cases, the motivation of the
advertiser (newpaper, tv, billboard owner) is not
to give you compensation, but simply to make
(er.. take) more money. NBC makes a sh!tload
on selling ads. That money goes to the
shareholders of NBC.
often, like in billboards and spam, you get zero compensation
ads promote behavior, that en masse, is unsustainable long term
"""
I don't see the logic in your argument...what is an alternative that doesn't rely on the goodwill of anyone/everyone (one bad apple/sneaky business spoils that route) and also presents a marketplace that is free of censorship and prohibitive legislation?
Our system isn't perfect, but the solution is not to legislate our problems away, but to EDUCATE them away.
That sounds pretty hoakey, as well as extremely idealistic, but there's no other way. Our society is based on the idea that man is a rational animal striving for his (her) own best interest...treat people like this, and they will behave that way.
"""
your reasoning and assumptions are founded entirely within the current way that we live. If you continue to hold on to them, the conclusion "there is no other way" is inevitable. you have to think bigger.
I never wrote anything about legislating changes. I agree with you that education is first. What people need to realize when they are fixing problems and when they are fixing symptoms. Ads are symptoms. Consumerism is a symptom.
As for extreme idealism... Well. No one but extremists really do much in "today's world."
read my sig
-
Said one, "All we lost was money. Scott lost his friends."
... Scott should lose his right to be with us anymore. He should be in prison, based on that story.
It will all stop when people realize
that the enveloping competition that fuels our
society ultimately makes life worse for most
people, not better.
I agree with you. Spam is a particulaly bad form of ads. However, if they were taxed and used to pay for my Internet service, they would simply fall into the bucket of all the other ads driven drivel out there.
My statements were a bit outside just spam on the Internet.
My point was that we are unwillingly forced to view ads by participating in daily life. The fact that they are used to pay for the service is important, but not essential. There could be lots of other ways to pay for services instead of progrmming masses to buy stuff.
I have had similar results with filtering >95% sensitivity and specificity. I use both spam assassin and junkfilter in series.
...
I check my spam box 1/week. Its not really ther time -- its the distraction that gets me. when I am reading the spambox its easy. D D D D, hmm read, D D D D
OK
it seems to me that we all just accept ads as "part of the way we live"
Each time I try to get education, entertainment,
or travel anywhere, I am bombarded with
unsolicited ads. ads that generally fuel the
out-of-control cosumerism all around us.
Read a magazine, get ads.
Watch the news on TV, get ads.
Walk down the street, get ads.
Read the newspaper, get ads.
Watch entertainment TV, get ads.
Even if I want to, I am FORCED to see ads. To be
programmed. (don't tell me to go live on an
island -- I don't want to do that either).
The thing I think is that we don't have to have it this way. I know its radical but imagine for a moment a world where there were no unsolicited ads . This is a real stretch -- many of the assumptions about normal life start to break down if you take this assumption and go with it. We DO have the technology to provide everyone all the information they could want whenever they want to buy something, yet we don't. We make all the businesses compete for visual and auditory bandwidth, annoying the he!l out of everyone.
thoughts?
Nice to see a lawyer doing something community-oriented for a change (even if they are just trying to make a profit from it).
even if? I thought making profits was all lawyers ever did!
take the enron shareholder lawyers, for example, who will rake in (conservatively) 50-100 Million US.
one-fifth was actually bought and paid for. That's just being dishonest.
Why? When did we all get the assumptions that
1) ALL music someone has is something they SHOULD HAVE to pay for?
2) its OK to follow laws that do not make any sense, especially if they are bought outright by big corporations in a successful attempt to keep themselves in control of YOU.
My answers:
1) when the only music you CAN get legally is that which you can get by paying for it.
2) we all stopped thinking for ourselves.
Yes -- silly you.
You are repeating common cultural myth.
go read my sig, slave.
(mod away. the truth hurts.)
62, partly cloudy in Palo Alto, CA.
What is snow?