Do students need to uninstall the software at the end of the course?
No, students are allowed to keep the software they have installed, but they may not check out or download additional MSDNAA software unless they continue taking courses from a member department. Regardless, they are still bound by the terms of the MSDNAA license agreement.
Here near UC Santa Barbara a studio will set you back about $800. My share is $525 to split a room - my 2br 2ba half of a duplex (or quadplex, really - two downstairs, two upstairs units) costs $2100.
Especially since, at least when I was a freshman there (I'm now a senior @ UCSB but have lived off campus since my 2nd year), they gave out a CD with stuff on it. I don't remember what it was, but they could EASILY have mandated this stuff. The first time you plug into the network (as of last year, anyway) it would put you on a seperate VLAN that always routes you to a webpage that asks for your student ID and name, etc and it registers that port/MAC address to you so they can hunt you down if need be. All they'd have to do is require you to download a few updates or push out a NAV corporate install from right there. It wouldn't be THAT hard...
True. I have a WAP in my house here. It also seems that someone else in the neighborhood does as well. How do I know? Because if I walk accross the house sometimes my signal will drop and windows will rescan and find the neighbor's WAP to be a little stronger and link up to that one. I see the little indicator that says it did it and change it back, but hell, if we both had linksys WAPs with default SSID's I could be roaming back and forth and never even know it was happening!
Granted, at 21, I'm probably considered a geezer by/. standards. But I think that the flaw in this argument is the assumption that this *is* how the tech generation speaks.
I have to say, I've known many a geek in my day and unless we're having to type with one hand or are trying to make fun of the l4m3rz, we never use anything more blatant than lol or brb. It's one thing to do in a chat room; I'll let that slide. But in a formal paper? Helllll no.
See, it may not seem like a big deal in grade school or high school. Maybe they shouldn't be failed because their parents will make a fuss. But that's forgetting one thing: college.
Many professors these students will encounter will give them an entirely new meaning for the term "anal retentive". If I turned in a lab writeup that said, "w found out that if u plug in ur chip backwardz it blowed up! wtf???", then I *would* fail that assignment. And in classes where you only have a couple assignments a year, that will hurt you a whole lot more than failing "How I Spent My Summer Vacation" in 5th grade. Tough love early pays off here.
Ironic this should appear now, after registering for GRE's....
They *FORCE* you to listen to about 10mins of crap (what to do if you have to cancel, what if you're a foreign citizen, get married, etc) before politely informing me that I'll be answered in the order I called.
There is absolutely NO way to skip their info even when you've already heard it all several times.
Screw Microsoft, ETS is the true evil monopoly empire.
...and 17 years of NOT getting the long skinny one when you've filled the entire screen with blocks except for that one-block-wide stripe up the entire right-hand side because you *just knew* that the next one would be the skinny one...
true, although maybe it's a good thing for all of us current college (or high-school) future engineers. Less supply available to industry == more $$$ for us;-)
DOWN WITH MATH AND SCIENCE CURRICULUMS!!!! UP WITH UNDERWATER BASKET-WEAVING! KEEP THE MASSES IGNORANT!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
funny, my grandpa was just telling me a story along these lines a couple days ago...
One of his old military buddies happened to inherit the abandoned phone number of a train engineer who happened to have moved out so he would constantly get calls from the railroad telling him to come in and pick up a train. He repeatedly tried to tell them about the error but people continued to call. Finally, they called at like 3am and said "we have the train loaded and ready to go - we need you to drive ASAP". He said "I'll be right over" - and went back to sleep. Nobody ever tried to get him to drive trains again...
My grandma chimed in with a similar story where she got the old number of some company's supplier. She would also get calls in the middle of the night. Since all the calls came from the same company, she did some research and tracked down the president's home phone number. The next time they called (in the middle of the night) she called him up and said "every time I get a phone call - you get a phone call." She was never bothered again...
I've thought of that before...basically what you're saying is that you make a complete copy of yourself and the orignial gets destroyed in the process (essentially like a high-res xerox machine that ate the originals but made an indistinguishable copy).
But wouldn't there then just be a second "you" who continues to live on with that "strange tingling" while the REAL you remains torn apart? Like having a clone live on after you get killed by the teleporter.
Maybe they'll figure it out someday, but I sure as hell don't want to be the first to try it - and I'm not sure how they could test it, since the copies would all think it worked fine, even though the original gets blown to pieces...
The problem I have with UPS is that it's only possible to ship packages with them. It's IMPOSSIBLE to receive them.
I had xmas gifts shipping with them from California to Virginia. They shipped 2 day (I believe) and (of course) arrived late. While I was at work. Naturally the tag was on the door and was found after 5pm. Of course they're closed. It says they will try again the next day. Between 9 and 5. When I'm at work.
Next day, same thing. Call them to re-route: Oh, it's in a truck and we can't take it out to change it. Fuck you.
Next day: package is taken hostage in the facility out by Dulles, apparantly the only UPS facility on the Eastern Seaboard. And, of course, it's now Saturday. The building is open. People are working. But they'll only ACCEPT packages. Will they let you pick one up? Nope, come back on monday. Naturally the monday when I was going to be in Cincinnati and wouldn't be back till after xmas. So, of course, we couldn't get the gifts until a week after Christmas.
I will never EVER EVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use UPS again. I don't care if they have to get an illegal immigrant to walk cross-country to give me my box, I will use any other shipping method except UPS.
You know what I want? I want a package delivery company FOR THE PEOPLE. NOT for the businesses. WTF is up with 9-5 only delivery??? I want a company that will deliver ONLY M-F 6-10 and Sa/Su 9-5. Times when people might actually be at home.
Screw UPS. At least FedEx will let you pick up the damn package. I was this close to filing a police report for them not giving me my property. Those fuckers ruined Christmas for the whole family.
So we should just abandon privacy and freedom completly.
I am sure you would feel really comfortable in your police state knowing that your 'goverment' (lets also get rid of democracy in case one of those terorists gets elected....) controls your every move.
Freedom has risks, deal with that.
I think its ironic that after what many people call an atack on 'the free/democratic/western world' the first thing we do is get rid of the things it stood for.
Looks like the attacks were successfull afterall...
Jeroen
While at work, sure. I'm working on the company's time on the company's property. As long as they hold up their end of the bargain (ie, they keep paying me), I can put up with security measures.
I have a choice of where to work, and frankly I don't feel like I need all that much freedom when I'm at work. I'm there to do my job, get paid, go home and THEN take advantage of the freedom I have.
And what does this have to do with a police state? Granted, the given example was a government agency, but the question at hand has to do with businesses in general searching people on their own property. Hell, I could search everone who wanted to enter or leave my house if I felt like it. I might not be the most popular host that way, but I _could_ do it if I wanted.
Let's drop the police state FUD. It's someone searching someone on their own property. Once we have cops stopping me in the street asking me for my papers, ok, then we can start bitching about police states. (granted that may be happening in some cases, but this is not one of those cases.)
Not Toronto, but a couple places like that. As I recall they were trying to do that in the Bay Area a while back but I seem to remember they backed off after a lot of pissed off people complained.
I'm a lazy American. Why should I have to push 4 more buttons because of poorly designed systems? If I only push 7, it should assume that the first 4 are like the first 4 of the number I'm calling from, like it's done for years. If I want it to use a different area code, I'll explicitly tell it, like I've always done before. It seems quite simple to me...
well, they've always done that anyway. I remember when I was in junior high and was doing the BBS thing in San Jose and called all the (7 digit) 408 numbers in Santa Cruz and my dad got a giant phone bill. This is when I learned there was such a thing as a "local toll call"
Seriously, though. If the damn thing knows enough to tell you you need the fucking 1, WHY THE HELL DOESN'T IT JUST PRETEND IT'S THERE AND KEEP GOING????? It's like they go out of their way to make it annoying.
No, no, no. Guns are all well and good for well-trained people and if the terrorists can't possibly get to them. But people would be freaking out and shooting each other by accident and stuff. Too much training and practice is needed to use them effectively.
What we need is something simpler. Earlier I said it should be batons or clubs, but stun guns would be better. That way if the terrorists get them they can't do too much damage, but a group of people with them can easily take down a little group of terrorists and keep them down until the pilot can get to the nearest airport and deposit the bad guys with the local authorities.
Homer definitely isn't driving a pink Cadillac. It's just a pink American sedan.
Ah, but if you remember the tomacco episode then you know that Homer's car was really made in Guatemala...
Re:It's been said before...
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Oooh, I didn't even think of stun guns. That'd be better. Then we don't get a Rodney King scenario where people are beating each other sensless not knowing who the real target is.
Same principles apply though. Let the people defend themselves (to an extent). They may not have the same quality of training as air mashalls or whatnot, but as my dad and his old friends from the missile silos say, "quantity has a quality all its own."
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EXACTLY WHAT MY FRINDS AND I HAVE BEEN SAYING!
As for the gas masks, I had that exact same thought this morning. But then I realized that a gas mask is a hell of a lot harder to conceal than a little knife made out of some household item. Give the fact that carry-ons will likely be searched much more than before, I don't think many terrorists would manage to get them on the planes. I think the real issue would be making sure the gas knocks out the entire plane in seconds, before the terrorists can start shooting people when they realize their plan failed and they have nothing to lose.
We also thought of another solution. Many people have been saying, "well, if everone had guns, we could all work to stop the terrorists." That's right, but it'd also give the terrorists easy access to weapons they could use against us. What we need is clubs/batons and training on how to use them effectively. That way a small group of terrorists couldn't do a whole lot of damage with what we give them, but an airplane full of angry club-carrying passangers could easily subdue a small group of bad guys.
It's primitive as hell and it'll never happen, but still...it *could* work, right?
After all, I think there'll be a MUCH higher heroism factor involved in any hijacking/terrorist event now that the stakes have been raised. We may as well give the people the means to fight effectively.
Re:Change the rules, be realistic about conflict
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I posted a comment similar to the one on your site earlier (I think - I may have had to leave before I submitted it, I don't remember)
But anyway, I think there really is a two pronged response needed here. You're right on the first one: a *strong* military response is needed. This is mostly a short-term solution, however. We *must* send a message saying that the world will not tolerate this kind of behavior. And I think this would have to be a very bloody message indeed.
But in the long term I think that the government needs to step back and take a look at exactly what THEY'RE doing as well that's causing these groups to hate us so much. A complete reanalysis of our Middle Eastern policies has been long overdue.
But neither of these responses will be effective without the other. If we simply turn the Mid-East into a parking lot, as so many are shouting for, it will MAYBE stop terrorism for a short time. But it will be back and even stronger than before.
But if we simply step back and change our behavior, the terrorists will see that by using a bigger bomb they finally got a response out of us. And so if they ever want anything else from us or ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD they will know how to get it: by blowing something up that's even bigger.
A militant response is most definitely called for in my opinion, but we also desperately need to look at what we're doing and maybe stop the hatred and terrorism before it stops.
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I don't know if we *can* get thru this without killing innocents. The parallel I immediatly saw from this was *not* like Pearl Harbor or the Civil War. I immediatly thought it was like the American Revolution.
We all remember our history classes, right? Back in the olden days armies would line up on opposite sides of a field and march towards each other shooting wearing bright colors and being very "noble" about the whole affair. Then us Americans get this cool idea of wearing dark colors and hiding in trees and practicing guerilla warefare. Later everyone had to do it because there was no way to fight without being a "coward" hiding while we fought. It was simply an evolution of warefare.
Now we're the redcoats and the terrorists are the americans. To think that we can fight this without changing our tactics signifigantly just seems impossible to me. Maybe there's a way. Damned if I know what it is, though.
How do you fight someone who is not afraid to die and is not afraid to use the innocents around him?
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"The Nazis made us realize that sometimes you need to stop talking about peace and start dropping bombs."
I don't know who said that or if I phrased it right, but that's the thought that keeps going thru my mind. God only knows where we're headed with all this, but we're sure as hell headed somewhere.
Slashdot Mirror
According to the MSDN-AA faq:
Do students need to uninstall the software at the end of the course?
No, students are allowed to keep the software they have installed, but they may not check out or download additional MSDNAA software unless they continue taking courses from a member department. Regardless, they are still bound by the terms of the MSDNAA license agreement.
Damn, where do YOU live???
Here near UC Santa Barbara a studio will set you back about $800. My share is $525 to split a room - my 2br 2ba half of a duplex (or quadplex, really - two downstairs, two upstairs units) costs $2100.
Especially since, at least when I was a freshman there (I'm now a senior @ UCSB but have lived off campus since my 2nd year), they gave out a CD with stuff on it. I don't remember what it was, but they could EASILY have mandated this stuff. The first time you plug into the network (as of last year, anyway) it would put you on a seperate VLAN that always routes you to a webpage that asks for your student ID and name, etc and it registers that port/MAC address to you so they can hunt you down if need be. All they'd have to do is require you to download a few updates or push out a NAV corporate install from right there. It wouldn't be THAT hard...
True. I have a WAP in my house here. It also seems that someone else in the neighborhood does as well. How do I know? Because if I walk accross the house sometimes my signal will drop and windows will rescan and find the neighbor's WAP to be a little stronger and link up to that one. I see the little indicator that says it did it and change it back, but hell, if we both had linksys WAPs with default SSID's I could be roaming back and forth and never even know it was happening!
Granted, at 21, I'm probably considered a geezer by /. standards. But I think that the flaw in this argument is the assumption that this *is* how the tech generation speaks.
I have to say, I've known many a geek in my day and unless we're having to type with one hand or are trying to make fun of the l4m3rz, we never use anything more blatant than lol or brb. It's one thing to do in a chat room; I'll let that slide. But in a formal paper? Helllll no.
See, it may not seem like a big deal in grade school or high school. Maybe they shouldn't be failed because their parents will make a fuss. But that's forgetting one thing: college.
Many professors these students will encounter will give them an entirely new meaning for the term "anal retentive". If I turned in a lab writeup that said, "w found out that if u plug in ur chip backwardz it blowed up! wtf???", then I *would* fail that assignment. And in classes where you only have a couple assignments a year, that will hurt you a whole lot more than failing "How I Spent My Summer Vacation" in 5th grade. Tough love early pays off here.
Ironic this should appear now, after registering for GRE's....
They *FORCE* you to listen to about 10mins of crap (what to do if you have to cancel, what if you're a foreign citizen, get married, etc) before politely informing me that I'll be answered in the order I called.
There is absolutely NO way to skip their info even when you've already heard it all several times.
Screw Microsoft, ETS is the true evil monopoly empire.
Along with Team Fortress 2...
...and 17 years of NOT getting the long skinny one when you've filled the entire screen with blocks except for that one-block-wide stripe up the entire right-hand side because you *just knew* that the next one would be the skinny one...
true, although maybe it's a good thing for all of us current college (or high-school) future engineers. Less supply available to industry == more $$$ for us ;-)
DOWN WITH MATH AND SCIENCE CURRICULUMS!!!! UP WITH UNDERWATER BASKET-WEAVING! KEEP THE MASSES IGNORANT!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
funny, my grandpa was just telling me a story along these lines a couple days ago...
One of his old military buddies happened to inherit the abandoned phone number of a train engineer who happened to have moved out so he would constantly get calls from the railroad telling him to come in and pick up a train. He repeatedly tried to tell them about the error but people continued to call. Finally, they called at like 3am and said "we have the train loaded and ready to go - we need you to drive ASAP". He said "I'll be right over" - and went back to sleep. Nobody ever tried to get him to drive trains again...
My grandma chimed in with a similar story where she got the old number of some company's supplier. She would also get calls in the middle of the night. Since all the calls came from the same company, she did some research and tracked down the president's home phone number. The next time they called (in the middle of the night) she called him up and said "every time I get a phone call - you get a phone call." She was never bothered again...
http://web.archive.org/web/19991008013724/http://w ww.goatse.cx/
Goatse.cx from 1999!!!
I've thought of that before...basically what you're saying is that you make a complete copy of yourself and the orignial gets destroyed in the process (essentially like a high-res xerox machine that ate the originals but made an indistinguishable copy).
But wouldn't there then just be a second "you" who continues to live on with that "strange tingling" while the REAL you remains torn apart? Like having a clone live on after you get killed by the teleporter.
Maybe they'll figure it out someday, but I sure as hell don't want to be the first to try it - and I'm not sure how they could test it, since the copies would all think it worked fine, even though the original gets blown to pieces...
The problem I have with UPS is that it's only possible to ship packages with them. It's IMPOSSIBLE to receive them.
I had xmas gifts shipping with them from California to Virginia. They shipped 2 day (I believe) and (of course) arrived late. While I was at work. Naturally the tag was on the door and was found after 5pm. Of course they're closed. It says they will try again the next day. Between 9 and 5. When I'm at work.
Next day, same thing. Call them to re-route: Oh, it's in a truck and we can't take it out to change it. Fuck you.
Next day: package is taken hostage in the facility out by Dulles, apparantly the only UPS facility on the Eastern Seaboard. And, of course, it's now Saturday. The building is open. People are working. But they'll only ACCEPT packages. Will they let you pick one up? Nope, come back on monday. Naturally the monday when I was going to be in Cincinnati and wouldn't be back till after xmas. So, of course, we couldn't get the gifts until a week after Christmas.
I will never EVER EVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use UPS again. I don't care if they have to get an illegal immigrant to walk cross-country to give me my box, I will use any other shipping method except UPS.
You know what I want? I want a package delivery company FOR THE PEOPLE. NOT for the businesses. WTF is up with 9-5 only delivery??? I want a company that will deliver ONLY M-F 6-10 and Sa/Su 9-5. Times when people might actually be at home.
Screw UPS. At least FedEx will let you pick up the damn package. I was this close to filing a police report for them not giving me my property. Those fuckers ruined Christmas for the whole family.
Don't feel too bad...the mayan calander is gonna end on my 32nd birthday (12/23/2012). That could be an interesting party.... :)
While at work, sure. I'm working on the company's time on the company's property. As long as they hold up their end of the bargain (ie, they keep paying me), I can put up with security measures.
I have a choice of where to work, and frankly I don't feel like I need all that much freedom when I'm at work. I'm there to do my job, get paid, go home and THEN take advantage of the freedom I have.
And what does this have to do with a police state? Granted, the given example was a government agency, but the question at hand has to do with businesses in general searching people on their own property. Hell, I could search everone who wanted to enter or leave my house if I felt like it. I might not be the most popular host that way, but I _could_ do it if I wanted.
Let's drop the police state FUD. It's someone searching someone on their own property. Once we have cops stopping me in the street asking me for my papers, ok, then we can start bitching about police states. (granted that may be happening in some cases, but this is not one of those cases.)
Not Toronto, but a couple places like that. As I recall they were trying to do that in the Bay Area a while back but I seem to remember they backed off after a lot of pissed off people complained.
I'm a lazy American. Why should I have to push 4 more buttons because of poorly designed systems? If I only push 7, it should assume that the first 4 are like the first 4 of the number I'm calling from, like it's done for years. If I want it to use a different area code, I'll explicitly tell it, like I've always done before. It seems quite simple to me...
well, they've always done that anyway. I remember when I was in junior high and was doing the BBS thing in San Jose and called all the (7 digit) 408 numbers in Santa Cruz and my dad got a giant phone bill. This is when I learned there was such a thing as a "local toll call"
Seriously, though. If the damn thing knows enough to tell you you need the fucking 1, WHY THE HELL DOESN'T IT JUST PRETEND IT'S THERE AND KEEP GOING????? It's like they go out of their way to make it annoying.
No, no, no. Guns are all well and good for well-trained people and if the terrorists can't possibly get to them. But people would be freaking out and shooting each other by accident and stuff. Too much training and practice is needed to use them effectively.
What we need is something simpler. Earlier I said it should be batons or clubs, but stun guns would be better. That way if the terrorists get them they can't do too much damage, but a group of people with them can easily take down a little group of terrorists and keep them down until the pilot can get to the nearest airport and deposit the bad guys with the local authorities.
Ah, but if you remember the tomacco episode then you know that Homer's car was really made in Guatemala...
Oooh, I didn't even think of stun guns. That'd be better. Then we don't get a Rodney King scenario where people are beating each other sensless not knowing who the real target is.
Same principles apply though. Let the people defend themselves (to an extent). They may not have the same quality of training as air mashalls or whatnot, but as my dad and his old friends from the missile silos say, "quantity has a quality all its own."
EXACTLY WHAT MY FRINDS AND I HAVE BEEN SAYING!
As for the gas masks, I had that exact same thought this morning. But then I realized that a gas mask is a hell of a lot harder to conceal than a little knife made out of some household item. Give the fact that carry-ons will likely be searched much more than before, I don't think many terrorists would manage to get them on the planes. I think the real issue would be making sure the gas knocks out the entire plane in seconds, before the terrorists can start shooting people when they realize their plan failed and they have nothing to lose.
We also thought of another solution. Many people have been saying, "well, if everone had guns, we could all work to stop the terrorists." That's right, but it'd also give the terrorists easy access to weapons they could use against us. What we need is clubs/batons and training on how to use them effectively. That way a small group of terrorists couldn't do a whole lot of damage with what we give them, but an airplane full of angry club-carrying passangers could easily subdue a small group of bad guys.
It's primitive as hell and it'll never happen, but still...it *could* work, right?
After all, I think there'll be a MUCH higher heroism factor involved in any hijacking/terrorist event now that the stakes have been raised. We may as well give the people the means to fight effectively.
I posted a comment similar to the one on your site earlier (I think - I may have had to leave before I submitted it, I don't remember)
But anyway, I think there really is a two pronged response needed here. You're right on the first one: a *strong* military response is needed. This is mostly a short-term solution, however. We *must* send a message saying that the world will not tolerate this kind of behavior. And I think this would have to be a very bloody message indeed.
But in the long term I think that the government needs to step back and take a look at exactly what THEY'RE doing as well that's causing these groups to hate us so much. A complete reanalysis of our Middle Eastern policies has been long overdue.
But neither of these responses will be effective without the other. If we simply turn the Mid-East into a parking lot, as so many are shouting for, it will MAYBE stop terrorism for a short time. But it will be back and even stronger than before.
But if we simply step back and change our behavior, the terrorists will see that by using a bigger bomb they finally got a response out of us. And so if they ever want anything else from us or ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD they will know how to get it: by blowing something up that's even bigger.
A militant response is most definitely called for in my opinion, but we also desperately need to look at what we're doing and maybe stop the hatred and terrorism before it stops.
I don't know if we *can* get thru this without killing innocents. The parallel I immediatly saw from this was *not* like Pearl Harbor or the Civil War. I immediatly thought it was like the American Revolution.
We all remember our history classes, right? Back in the olden days armies would line up on opposite sides of a field and march towards each other shooting wearing bright colors and being very "noble" about the whole affair. Then us Americans get this cool idea of wearing dark colors and hiding in trees and practicing guerilla warefare. Later everyone had to do it because there was no way to fight without being a "coward" hiding while we fought. It was simply an evolution of warefare.
Now we're the redcoats and the terrorists are the americans. To think that we can fight this without changing our tactics signifigantly just seems impossible to me. Maybe there's a way. Damned if I know what it is, though.
How do you fight someone who is not afraid to die and is not afraid to use the innocents around him?
"The Nazis made us realize that sometimes you need to stop talking about peace and start dropping bombs."
I don't know who said that or if I phrased it right, but that's the thought that keeps going thru my mind. God only knows where we're headed with all this, but we're sure as hell headed somewhere.