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Teaching BattleBots in High School
Some Guy writes: "We all know that everyone's favourite TV show is BattleBots on Comedy Central, Right?
Well, a new program has started at my old high school that teaches BattleBots to kids. It's a truly engaging engineering program/curriculum that kids and school systems can use for credit. The program is called BattleBots IQ. Kids out there can get their teachers to go to battlebots training camps during the summer, and then have them teach battlebots to them as a class. I wish it was around when I was a kid."
you decide.
Remember the pre-battle bots competitions at MIT? I wanted to go to MIT just to be able to do that!
sir_haxalot
stuff |
I think this is a great idea and all, but it sounds like a liability suit waiting to happen, even if the students do sign waivers. Only time before some kid soulders a digit to a piece of hardware.
My other sig is an import.
And when the apocalypse comes, this will become even more practical!
We all know that everyone's favourite TV show is BattleBots on Comedy Central, Right?
Uhhh, yeah, sure... whatever you say. Why is Battlebots on Comedy Central? It's a comedy channel. Why not get some, gasp, comedy to fill those time blocks? I'd love to see some reruns of The State.
Compared to battlebots, RW (on the BBC) is far better.
Nuff said.
No, ph00ls.. insightful, not troll.
You were expecting a sig?
More focus on the fundamentals. This only furthers the chasm for equality of quality education. There are public schools where kids are trying to learn the fundamentals of math ans scicene in an environment with leaky roofs and inadequate heating. Sure, schools that can afford to offer a battle bot curriculum usually do not face this type of challenge. But what is the percedntage. Rather invest in this type of project, wht not buy some kids some CURRENT TEXTBOOKS! For those that own any property and pay taxes, you should understand what I am saying.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
If I recall right, there has been a decline in engineers in school in the USA. So this would be a good way to promote that sort of thing.
Unless the workforce gets shipped out overseas.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
You remember the announcements at the end of each battlebots episode saying don't try this at home kids?
I can imagine little children cooking up bots with chainsaws and flame throwers and atomic death ray guns shoddily duct taped to shoeboxes with R/C cars underneath.
Actually, this would be SO much more fun to see!
Teaching violence and destruction to our nation's youth in order to increase the corporate revenues of Comedy Central. Thank God vouchers were deemed constitutional.
So, instead of the media, internet, and those shady looking guys on the corner of the street teaching kids to make deadly weapons, our teachers will save them the trouble. Huzzah!
I am involved in the FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition in Science and Technology) program. The main difference between FIRST and battle bots is that battle bots focusses on money and ratings, while FIRST focuses on educating our nations youth. You can go to FIRST's website to find out more--it's a huge program, the stadium for nationls (which is rebuilt each year) is bigger than the Orlando Magic stadium (we even have teams from England, Canada, and Brazil). Also to note, the founder of FIRST (Dean Kamen) is the guy who invented the segway. Basically, I would much rather see more schools enter into FIRST than battle bots, because FIRST focuses on LEARNING and GRACIOUS PROFESIONLISM, while battle bots focusses on MONEY.
Fault loves the past, worry loves the future, but content enjoys the present.
I have mixed feelings about stories like this. Why does learning have to be fun? Parents and schools try to get kids interested in math, reading, and, in this case, engineering, by turning it into some kind of game. There are educational computer games, board games, flash cards, and "fun" courses like this.
However, in the real world, learning, and science, are quite often not fun. They are often tedious and frustrating, and it's important for kids to learn that lesson. There are other rewards for learning besides "fun" and kids need to learn that, or when they get beyond the educational computer games and battle bots high school classes, and encounter the tedious and frustrating world of real science/mathematics/engineering and discover it's not "fun" they may just give it up entirely.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
..looks more and more like a good idea.
Like as if schools have enough money already, now kids will expect expensive robotics materials given to them.
And yeah, its not like knowing how to figure out percentages or long division is going to help prepare kids for life more than knowing how to smash amateur contraptions together. Yeah right.
Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random numbers is, of course, in a state of sin.-John von Neumann
I bet this annoys the heck out of Dean Kamen, the guy who designed the "ginger" scooter. He also founded the "FIRST" robotics competition for students, which doesn't allow any robot combat. I think that Battlebots IQ will be much more popular with the average student.
Screw reading, writing, arithmetic, history, civics, etc. The future is making "robots" out of junk!
Why do you people watch that show? .. the weight :p
class of those toys is so limited that the action
and the results are almost totally predictable.
The only real element of chance are the arena
hazards. This scaled down mockery of engineering
hopefully will pass in to history sooner than later.
At least that zappa idiot is off the air. His dad
he ain't
Why is battlebots on comedy central? While it is a good show and I do watch it, it's never made sense to me why it is on there? It's not funny. Fun. Yes, but hardly funny imho...
Snoozer.
Teaching violence and destruction to our nation's youth in order to increase the corporate revenues of Comedy Central. Thank God vouchers were deemed constitutional.
"No, Your Honor, the children were just making Killer Robots. We had no idea it wouldn't be safe."
I'm amazed that the school's legal department allows this kind of thing. Battlebots are probably safer than rocketry (which my elementary school wouldn't let us do for legal reasons) but still, the potential is there for serious injury. It's probably easier to get this sort of thing allowed in High School. I wonder how heavily they emphasise safety? Based on my quick review of the two rules documents, they've at least had the good sense not to allow guns, bombs or cattleprods. Also, the Robot has to be safe to handle while off; but that may not be enough protection - I realize the stuff in the shop room down the hall is actually far more dangerous, but it doesn't involve the sanctioned game of using it as a weapon.
Play careful, Kids! Don't ruin the fun for future generations by chopping any of your toes off.
Also, just once incident of a robot with a chainsaw chasing screaming teenagers down a hallway would put a quick end to the program, I'd assume.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Well, I do admire your desire to make something long, seeing as you are most likely lacking in length in other areas...
I'd rather see a show that is a mix between killer robots and cops. Little radio controled robots made by kids just doesn't cut it anymore...
And I mean that!
I had Pre-Engineering Electronics in high school (took it sophomore year). I really can not think of any one class more influencial in my thought processes (well, minus Humanities, but that's a different form of process).
I'm sure all the science these people have learned in high school will be only more solidified in their minds after working on this sort of challenge. As my Pre-EE class taught me a new, more involved, way of thinking this sort of BattleBot challenge will benefit people in high school in similar ways. That is, learning to apply the knowledge they had learned (or, roughly memorized) in other classes will help them truelly understand that knowledge.
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
I wish it was around when I was a kid.
Do people still use the subjunctive, or has that been deprecated in the latest version of the English language?
That was a better read the the Sunday New York Times. Bravo.
I just have one question: Since I run Free BSD, does that make me a homo? I've never had a gaysexual encounter and don't want one. Please help.
There was a story comparing BBIQ and FIRST a while back. It turns out that Dean Kamen (founder of first) doesn't really like battlebots. Go figure...
I tried to get my school to start one, but everyone just gave me strange looks. I tried to explain the logistics of it and how it would be relativly easy to get materials once we lined up a company or two to sponser, even came up with a few designs, but no one really took me seriously. Oh well, there loss.
Love and Peace,
Valen
"The best compliment a girl ever gave me was 'Your hair smells nice.' I hate being the platonic friend." -Valen
We've trained the kids already via quake 3 and UT2. Now all we need to do is build the robots to make it real; it looks like we're going to get kids to do that to.
When this next crop comes of age, the military is going to have a hayday.
I can see the advertisement now.. "Do you get scores over 300 in UT2003? Then YOU could already be qualified to operate the Slaughtermaster B7400! (see local recruiter for details)"
I just got a tivo a few weeks ago. The best part is I can watch an hour long battlebots episode in about 10 minutes. The worst part is that they make new episodes out of fights they've already aired...
Hell, I wish they had computers when I was a kid.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
I have to respectfully disagree with your hypothesis that learning isn't fun. Granted, some parts are tedious, some parts are repetitive and frustration is no stranger during the learning process. However, the joy of discovery, the eureka moment when it all clicks into place, the self-confidence when you realize you have mastered a subject - I say all these more than counterbalance the tedious aspects of learning. Learning is its own reward. Mastering a matter makes it a joy all of its own.
Especially in this crowd, claiming that learning is no fun won't fly. What geek hasn't encountered frustration configuring something in linux? What geek hasn't repetitively typed man (subject)? Yet I will lay odds that few geeks will claims computers are no fun, that linux is boring.
Pardon me for preaching off a soapbox, but the attitude that 'learning isn't fun' bugs the hell out of me. It is that attitude that keeps people watching TV rather than reading a good book, or play video games till 5am while neglecting homework. The rewards aren't as immediate as other activities but learning IS fun, rewarding and enjoyable as long as we stick to it.
So make battlebot classes fun. I'll guarantee you that if those kids are actually building those bots, they'll encounter the tedium and frustration of engineering. But will that stop them from having fun in the end? Probably not. But it may encourage some of them to try something they never would have, and learn something in the process.
The great day, though, will be when autonomous bots start winning with faster-than-human reaction times.
I tried to get a grant from my university (which is internationally known for it's engineering program) to build a battlebot without any success. It's great to see something like this happening on such a level.
sig.
Just watching geeks nervously make fools of themselves when interviewed by bimbos is reason enough to watch. Seeing multi-thousand dollar machines get smashed all to hell is just a bonus, IMO.
--
Spaz!
So this is the future investment for school budgets? Next kids will expect to be able to produce speed-surviving vehicles, without paying a penny.
Not everything has to be about robots!
When I was in Elementary and Middle Schools I was in a program called Odyssey of the Mind. This was a great program, with teams of 7 students, who would comptete in both a long and short program. For the long program (8 minutes), the team had a few months and a limited budget, and was allowed to choose one of the 5 problems to solve, Here are Last Years. There was alao a short program, where you were given a set of supplies, 1 min to brainstorm, and then 3 minutes to do it. Usually this challenge took the form of building something, such as the tallest twoer you could with toothpicks and shaving cream, that could survive a 5mph wind, something like that. It was a great program, and wasn't limited to engneering tyes.
There a programs like both OM and US FIRST, or the new robot wars in a lot of communitites, and whether you like their current format or not, we should all get involved. Many of us complain about the current state of education, and I have already seen people complaining about schools, and thanking vouchers. If you think these programs are great, get involved! If not get involved anyway and bring your experiences and incites to a younger group.
-OctaneZ
My former (just graduated) high school had a Battlebots IQ team. They put up a website , which details their robot, E2, and the competition. They did quite well, winning 6 in the double elimination format. I didn't participate in this, but I was involved in the Panasonic Creative Design Challenge, a robot competiton open to high school students in the State of New Jersey. I reccomend this competition to interested students, since I won a two grand scholarship that is going toward my EE degree.
You're absolutely right. Learning IS rewarding. Learning is often its own reward, and it's not the only reward. But it isn't always fun.
/.'ers, I do enjoy learning about computers and technology. I'm also an electrical engineer. However, I have almost no interest in learning about, say, biology. It's boring and uninteresting. So why, then, do I read books on health matters, or watch the surgery shows on the Discovery channel? Because these things are important to know for my own health, and the health of my loved ones.
Like most
Learning about politics? Again, not fun. CSPAN is uber-boring. Why do I do it? Because I need to stay informed, so I can figure out which politician is going to screw me the least and vote for him.
There are many reasons to learn, probably the least of which is because "learning is fun." Learning makes us healthier, more productive, wealthier, better citizens, and better human beings. Teach kids THOSE reasons to learn, and they'll learn anything. Teach them "learning is fun!" and they'll be most disappointed when they find out you lied to them.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
For those trying to teach Java to kids, RoboCode is a great way to get them interested. They may not care about hello world in an applet, but pasting other folks tanks makes event handling fun.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
It really depends on the curriculum. I have this image of thousands of high schools making their kids construct from an assigned and approved text. I'm sure companies will come along and start marking 'kits' that work with these assigned texts and designs.
The downside to this would be virtually identical bots in uninspiring battles. I really hope we don't see this. It would be nice if the course focused on basic engineering fundamentals and then found ways to foster innovation.
In either event, I'm happy to see this. Get people proficient in robotics at an early age, and by the time they become adults we will see some really amazing things.
The Internet is generally stupid
.. a cool HS. I wonder if they'll have Lego Mindstorms 101 next year.
Live web cams
Okay, i could see this as being an interesting course on engineering in college, but give me a break, how many schools are going to be able to afford this? How many PTA moms are going to raise unholy hell when they learn their school is spending cash on teaching their precious Jimmy how to build a violent machine of destruction instead of textbooks written in the past five years?...how many *teachers* want to waste their summer going to that camp for no extra pay?
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
It's great to have another player in robotics for education. The FIRST program was started by Dean Kamen, the Segway Human Transporter inventor, as a way to promote science and engineering to students. It starts with Lego robotics and has been around for several years. It's usually found in the K-8 grades and is a staple at MIT. Students learn how to write technical procedures, mechanical design, programming and engineering, and of course teamwork. For everything they do there is an attempt to align the tasks with other curriculum such as math, english and science. I volunteer for a middle school robotics club; a lot of work, but a lot of fun.
For the high school students the FIRST program (usfirst.org) gets serious. Here students build real robots designed to meet a specific challenge. AutoCAD and other software companies provide software grants to high schools so the students are getting the real thing. Local businesses involved in engineering usually provide volunteers to mentor the students. It can cost 1 school over 30K to compete at this level. rhodewarrior.org is a site from a high school in RI that has been involved from the beginning and scores pretty well.
The more the merrier, I think, when it comes to this kind of stuff. There has been some concern though, of making sure the students are truly meeting a challenge, and not just building something for the sake of going out and destroying things. The FIRST robotics programs usually involve designing a claw or figuring how many ping-pong balls you can pick up and get into a basket.
If you find yourself wishing you had this when you were in school, then ask around at your local school district - folks are always looking for volunteers.
....they have required keyboarding classes now adays.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Well from what I have seen not everyone is happy with this. Most public schools now a days can't pay for new books but they are going to do a Battlebots program. Well the schools that can't afford the books won't be doing the battlebots. It will be the Upper class schools out in Rural California. Or the private schools in Rural NY. the ones that cost 30k a kid per year to go. THOSE are the ones that will get the program. I went to a private school in Highschool (I had behavioral problems) and the state paid my way. (28k a year for 3 years) and lemme just say... the school barely had enough money some times to do anything fun for the kids (one time for an end of the school year treat they took us (about 50kids in the school) to a pool hall. it was depressing but it was all they could do. since the school is a not for profit organization they could not keep any extra money for the next year. But with the support I received I was able to graduate a year early. Now I sit on my ass all day posting on /. ... gee what a great world.
Buy all of your kids, nephews, nieces, etc. legos. Preferably the teknic (sic?) or mindstorms variety. They will learn more on their own than you have time to teach them.
This seems really cool, if you have the teachers to pull it all together. I went to a pretty crappy public high school (though they claimed it was above average by New York standards). The summer after my junior year, my school sent two of the math teachers to take some programming classes to teach AP computer programming in C.
So, in theory, my senior year, i would be able to take the AP programming class and possibly get college credit.
Wrong... The teachers that they sent out were not programmers by any standards. By the 3rd month, we had already surpassed their training. After that, it was student and teacher working together to learn the material. Some of the students (myself included) were better off just reading books on our own. By the end of the year, we only got through a third of the curriculum that we were suppossed to. So, taking the AP exam wasn't even an option.
Point being, this new program seems really really cool, but I hope that they actually take this seriously before they half ass the training and use unqualified people... cause it's unfair for themselves and the students.
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
"Mom! My homework ate the dog!"
Table-ized A.I.
A friend of mine operates a robotic combat team, Indecision Robotics. His bot, Sudden Impact, has apparently won Robot Wars in the UK. Anyway, he has already come up with an "Antweight Highschool Curriculum", availible here.
I think that this idea is pretty cool. I would have loved to have a course in high school where I could rip things apart and build a bot like this. Guess I'll have to wait for my design project in my 4th year of Aerospace Engineering.
Why do they have to be devices of destruction? With all the interest in car/racing movies lately, why not just make radio controlled cars from scratch? Parts are readily available for things that would be too difficult to make and it would offer the same amount of learning potential. The nitro burning engines could lead the class down a path of combustion engine history, dynamics of an engine, as well as learning what horsepower and torque are. The suspension could teach physics and angles. The servos and batteries could teach them about impedance, torque, and amps.
All of these items are on a battlebot. The only difference is that is in the world of rc cars, the competition is benign. In battlebots, it is open and obvious destruction. We should be fostering construction rather than destruction, imho.
-= Why can't I add 'Anonymous Coward' to my list of Foes? =-
...whether it is lawn mower engines or hobby rockets, it will still be the parents providing the interest and drive behind the scenes. A parent will wish they had this in high-school and forget that at that point in time they were clueless, and it was actually their parents that got them motivated to take the class.
We all know that everyone's favourite TV show is BattleBots on Comedy Central, Right?
Nooo! Robot Wars UK is way better!!
My friends love to watch BattleBots, but I can't stand the show.. it's a bunch of oversized radio-controlled cars with weapons. Not one of the entries EVER does anything on its own. There is no intelligence or automatic seeking and reaction system built into any of the entries. I don't see how a BattleBots class is anything more than just a highschool level mechanical engineering class.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I recall reading about some underground type of events held in the Bay Area where machines with some modicum of intelligence fought each other in locations such as under out-of-the-way highway overpasses... machines equipped with heat-seeking, motion-sensing, etc devices. Remote control? What's the point? That's not advancing robotics..
Yeah like a $2000 voucher is gonna get you into any school that's worth shit. The only schools that you would be allowed to go to on that little money is religious schools that use under-paid teachers to instill morals and a belief in creationism. Come on, a voucher would only help a kid get into a better school if he was already smart and was able to get a scholarship for the rest of the balance, otherwise its one failing situation to another, The only difference is the second place doesn't have mandatory standardized tests to prove it. So then it looks better on national statistics.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
Considering that the average boy junior high wants to make destructive metal machines that can potentially terrorize the girls in class, this is the perfect program. Being the principal of such a program could be stressful when an agry parent comes to you complaining that his daughter came home in tears because little Joey tried to use his 'spin of death' and almost ruined her binder, nevermind hurting her. This program will probably be shut down completely after about 5 major accidents.
"Truth suffers from too much analysis." Frank Herbert, Dune Messiah
Battlebots doesn't get enough credit. Really, they don't.
Unlike those other WWF-inspired hype and showbiz chainsaw shows, BB is still a game show about design and engineering. I wish they'd get some less obnoxious announcers and lose the babes doing the in-the-pits interviews (I know, I know, but The Man Show comes on right after it, right? Can't you do your oogling then?)
The other show that really deserves credit for this sort of thing is Junkyard Wars on TLC -- leave it to the Brits to come up with an entire game show about engineering, AND it's an hour long. This is better than The Secret Life Of Machines *AND* Connections.
Too bad more network programming crudholes can't do math or we'd see more of this sort of thing.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Dean Kamen & Woodie Flowers have their heads attached correctly - FIRST is the only way to go.
People tend to ask me "So that's like battlebots, right?" when I tell them I'm a robotics nerd. I explain "No, battlebots has a serious flaw - it's easy to armor a robot, and very hard to build effective weapons within the rules. With FIRST, you have a goal - much a) harder and b) more useful in real life - problem solving and all that jazz.
So, Viva FIRST - we'll have a team in every High School in the US (and in several other countries - Brazil & Canada, for example) for many years after battlebots is off the air and forgotten.
~Mac~
I am a team mentor (Team #824, Students Working Against Time). I'm proud to say that our robot, from chassis to firmware, is 100% built by students, both from the University of Washington, and Roosevelt High School with whom we are partnered. In fact, the most that our corporate sponsors do is mail us a check and show up at the pre-ship event to pick up a team T-Shirt.
:-)
It is *not* a cheap program. It costs $5000.00 to register, each additional competition that you go to costs another whopping $4000.00. The money from registration pays for the kit parts, which is a big collection of motors, pneumatics, and control systems (Innovation First's controller, complete with 900Mhz radio modems). Additional competitions *are* expensive to go to, expecially if it's the championship at Epcot; just flying the entire team there with a 130 lbs robot and support equipment can be very taxing.
My kids learn a lot every year. Some of the HS students joined the team not having used a hacksaw before; by the end of the build period, they were operating our CNC milling machine. Others became good 3D Animators, CAD users, and web gurus. It's also about APPLYING what you learn in the class room. Kids can learn all the physics from a book, but the concept is really reinforced when you have to sit down and calculate gear reduction ratios for building a ball pickup scoop. As for mentors, we get about as much out of a program as the kids; I was a horrible manager when I first started, and slowly I've managed to hone my managerial and leadership skills. Of coures, like anything in life, you get what you put into the program. The students that learn the most are going to be the ones that always show up and volunteer to help. We were at a pre-ship competition, and the kids from the Micro$oft team (The X-Bot, insert booing here)were just sitting around playing basketball, while we were busy troubleshooting our robot. We can all guess how much of *their* robot is student-buit.
Would I mentor a BattleBot IQ team if I have the chance? Why not? FIRST is a great program, but it still have miles to go as far as marketing goes, compared to Battlebots, and if it's another way to get kids interested into science and technology, who cares what banner they compete under?
Links:
FIRST's website:
F.I.R.S.T
Team #824 - Students Working Against Time
Dan Rupert at Rancho Bernardo High School has been using the students in his CAD classes to design and build his Bots for years now.
My words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS!
Battle Bots is an unbelievably stupid show.
One good reason might be because they contain so many misconceptions and factual errors.
You say, "it looks like we're going to get kids to do that to." Seems you left off a word or two at the end of the sentence -- kids to do that to what?
...the real men do Junkyard Wars
jr high girls seem to be less given to battling. this site tells of a robotics course they pretty much designed- http://www.geocities.com/meighreaux/
-josh
Gee, anyone heard of FIRST? http://www.first.org
Insert Sig Here
At my high school, we have a thing called Senior Technology Research Labs (tech labs for short). Many of the seniors that take the Robotics Tech Lab create BattleBots and actually compete in real BattleBot competitions.
I belong to the ______ generation.
They make these kids buy $800 radios where $100 ones would do........ just so dean kamen can go build some scooters. Wow!
Sure a few corporate teams do well, but it's the mentors on the team that make the difference. Many of the big teams you're so [seemingly] intimidated by are fueled by some dedicated people who also happen to know how to effectively run design process and come up with a solution to playing and winning the game each year. There are many _very_ well funded teams who flop many more times than not. This year we ran with only around $14,000 ($9,000 of the 14 was corporate.) We won a regional, and were also a divisional finalist at nationals. 2 Years ago we also won a regional, and that same year two kids who absolutely worked their butts off won an animation award.