You forget that it's not just retooling to publish the media, but different packaging, different shipping and different handling of the media. HD-DVD looks and behaves like a DVD. Blueray is a heavier catridge that not only costs more to manufacture, more to produce but more to handle. YOu think netflix will offer free shipping on blue-ray media? You think your going to like carrying around a big blue catridge to watch movies in your portable players or your car?
HD-DVD will win hands down because i can carry it with me, i can retool in a simple recoupable cost and not have to re-organize my entire stock & distribution plan.
Blue Ray is like the Iomega of the computer industry.. it may sell a few zipdisk and rip off external catridges but it will be gone as soon as the fad is lost
Your point is you justify a format for watching movies because a game system does or doesn't support it?
DVD isn't a success because of the PS/2 but because of manufactures discounting the hell out of the players, picture quality is good and the affordability of rental or movie purchases. VHS used to cost 80-100 bucks a movie, DVD's are what 15.99?
Consumers don't care about the format, they care about the product. The average consumer doesn't know if the cable is mpeg4 with dts audio, they just want it to work. Either way Microsoft sells the codecs so they will make a pretty buck no matter which way the market swings.
Sony isn't known for selling good quality.
Games don't need HD DVD or Blue Ray. I don't own a single PC game that uses an entire DVD right now, even after decompressing many of the levels and crap.
The format winner will not be one this november when the 360 is released or 6 months from now when the PS3 is released. It will be won when HDTV's are affordable, when the format is seemless and when the technology just works.
Blue-ray is not only an entirely different technology, it's a different package. No only will people have to retool entire publishing systems to support these, but different distribution, packaging and handling and whatnot.. Blue Ray is a different beast than a cd looking hd-dvd.
If a game system decided the future of TV media we would have been on huge catridges years ago and we would all own Neo-Geo controlled devices.
If Blue-ray wins, i'm only out the drive upgrade, not the entire console.
The true fact is i'll be enjoying the XBox 360 on my HDTV playing 720p and 1080i games 6-7 months before the PS3 is even released. Watching TV on my console is the LAST thing I want to do right now. I already have a tuned DVD system.
Just HOW many people are going to have HD the days these systems come out? TV's are selling like hotcakes, but the market is what, only 5%???
Most parents aren't going to hook a gaming system up to the main tv and if they do they probably will have dedicated blue ray/hd dvd systems anyway.
I'll be Happy playing my games while those who wait will loose out.
Intel is engineering for it's next gen chips that are still vaporware as far as i'm concerned. AMD put out some great technology that works today.
The big question will be who is the leader next year! As far as i'm concerned the opteron/amd64 has already proven intself against p4/xeon arch and it's up to the next gen chips to see who will stomp on who.
Will AMD pull some new tech? Will Intel be able to deliver or will sun come around and smack everyone with the new Niagra chips?
We are running on Sun Cluster 3.1, so open source MPI libraries won't cut it as far as remaining certified for support. Sun doesn't support MPI over GigE because of the latency and timing which would cost more than IP over the same interface.
On a linux system, that would be an interesting benchmark for proof of concept, but not something a vendor would support us for.
This is for a large corporation so supported platforms is critical.. i don't believe redhat or suse have certified MPI over GigE in any form either.
Dolphin is the vendor, however for Sun Cluster 3.1 certification to support RAC on our "grid" requires the sun branded cards.. we are looking to get around that, but your right. you get screwed by the big vendors:)
ON linux oracle preaches Gig-E because it fits the affordable architecture, however after calling both Oracle and Sun they both run there core ERP system on SCI based systems:)
So they don't necessarily practice what they preach - however i guess they assume the scale of there customers is smaller. (which kind of defeats the purpose of scoping a GRID environment). RAC gig-e - "GRID" conceptually ????
Grid computing assumes scalability to a certain factor. The concept is consolidation of your datacenter to a grid environment of managed/hosted databases that are seemless to the end users and managed centrally.
Your options assume that your developing the grid as a proprietary system, which we are not.
We are looking at using Sun 490's, Solaris 10, Sun Cluster 3.1 and Oracle 10g RDBMS. All of which everything from GigE to SCI/Infiniband is supported on and all of which shareholders would highly approve of as it consolidates dozens of disperate systems into a common infrastucture to manage saving buttloads of money.
My question is more of real world experience vs labs and sales figures.
We have professionals on site, and i use that term loosely. Professinals are hardly proficient in proving the concept of grid computing because they few and far between.
It comes down to a latency issue and figuring out how that latency impacts real world use and the answer comes down to how much money you want to throw at that problem.
My question is that latency that much for the interconnects that cutting it by high speed interconnects isn't lost in all of the other overheads in the system (such as local disk reads, processing and such)
The obvious efficiency of SCI over GigE is no IP overhead, less cpu cycles and a latency 1/10th of that of the fastest GigE card. Now is that latency saved worth it in the real world in spending 6k a node for the interconnect and 20k for a SCI switch or is Gig-E sufficient.
Without pre-building the system i don't know.. so i asked slashdot to see if anyone has any real world experience that isn't confined to a sales lab or some system totally tweaked out and not "Real world experience".
I've learned since posting that saturation of the connect isn't as much of a problem as the latency.. hopefully that helps in answering my concerns:)
We do this already for our generic RAC systems running mostly for high availability and some of the clustering functionality.
Our new platform will be the enterprise ERP suite and CRM with hundreds of concurrent users and live transactions running in everything from order entry, product configurator to processing invoices, taking support requests and all.
Postgresql doesn't scale what we need. We have over 600 concurrent web users and countless concurrent jobs and tons of replications and db links to other systems.
besides, postgressql has the same problem as redhat. You buy support and they will only support you on "supported" platforms that are hardly ever modern or optimized for the amount of transactions a large ERP system does.
Linux is the only platform that has this issue. It's up to redhat to get certified. Suse is in the process, but i don't know where that stands after novel purchased them.
For web servers, even j2ee application servers and open source stuff linux is fine and dandy, where i can't stand it is enterprise applications.
I can't stand the horrible certification matrix that is a joke on RedHat AS. I can't stand the fact that vendors lock into specific redhat releases and NONE of those locks carry forward. I can't stand the fact that Redhat doesn't seem to care. "contact your software vendor".
Hence, i love solaris for enterprise applications - i'm talking about financial back end systems, i'm talking about heavy duty bpel, oracle sso, applicaitons 11i, oracle 10g grids and everything else. RedHat's TCO because of the lack of supported arch's is more than solaris or even HPUX which is downright scary.
I love my redhat boxen, i wish i could standardize on that platform. Why the hell hasn't the market caught up? i mean for christs sake oracle preaches linux day in and day out yet i have to run AS 2.1 or AS 3.0 and i can't run 64bit database back ends in certain mixes nad i have to have oracle kernel versions for this and that and yet all of this is supposed ot come together in some "proposed" future date.
I know in slashdot world, Microsoft is the bad guys, but microsoft pails in comparison to the "bad corporate netizen" that the soney behemouth is and has become.
Atleast the laws Microsoft tries to play under are much more fair to people across the world than that of sony.
Sony's products are cheap, break, lousy construction and the most properietary of anything i've ever seen. This comes from everything in PDA's to car stereo's and home theaters.
Give me something cheap, give me something universal and give me something that companies can utilize today.
PS2 was a hype, PS3 no don't will be.. how many times are we going to fall for this nonsense? Memory stick, betamax, properietary 5.1 processing, cheap receivers that never meat rates wattage, tv's that were good 20 years ago, game systems that don't deliver on the promise. The only good thing to come out of Sony today are 20,000 dollar CRT tubes. And even that is sliding in response to competition.
I certainly hope for the sake of DVD that HD DVD wins. Blueray is nothing but another behemouth trying to get the market to sway it's way. (or use proprietary hardware as a means of copy protection)
Telecommuting for a job is much different than being the president when millions of people are homeless, thousands are dying and your out having cake and invite only parties?
9/11 he was there within 15 hours, 8/29/05 8/29/05 he says he might show up by friday?
The point is he can mobilize people and make this a national priority. We can't afford the loss of 100 billion dollars of the economy, oil pipelines and such.
We rallied for war after 9/11, why the f can't we rally for piece, rally for safety, rally for those 1.5 million homeless pople across 5 states down there and work to make a difference for all?
Recent adwords "upgrades" are killing the very businesses/advertisers that put google on the map.
The company isn't nearly as "seemless" as some suggest, we only know what we do because people tear it apart.
If you watched Microsoft as close as you watch google the differences won't be that much these days. Google is out to destroy competition in everything.
Atleast microsoft had an "assimilate" approach where they would purchase x y z company and incorporate technology rather than absorb all talent & funding and develop within..
HOWEVER i do recognize google has done some assimilation as well.
Wait and see game, but it's funny how the blind follow google and hate microsoft
Slashdot Mirror
You forget that it's not just retooling to publish the media, but different packaging, different shipping and different handling of the media. HD-DVD looks and behaves like a DVD. Blueray is a heavier catridge that not only costs more to manufacture, more to produce but more to handle. YOu think netflix will offer free shipping on blue-ray media? You think your going to like carrying around a big blue catridge to watch movies in your portable players or your car?
HD-DVD will win hands down because i can carry it with me, i can retool in a simple recoupable cost and not have to re-organize my entire stock & distribution plan.
Blue Ray is like the Iomega of the computer industry.. it may sell a few zipdisk and rip off external catridges but it will be gone as soon as the fad is lost
Dude.. what was all of that?
Your point is you justify a format for watching movies because a game system does or doesn't support it?
DVD isn't a success because of the PS/2 but because of manufactures discounting the hell out of the players, picture quality is good and the affordability of rental or movie purchases. VHS used to cost 80-100 bucks a movie, DVD's are what 15.99?
Consumers don't care about the format, they care about the product. The average consumer doesn't know if the cable is mpeg4 with dts audio, they just want it to work. Either way Microsoft sells the codecs so they will make a pretty buck no matter which way the market swings.
Sony isn't known for selling good quality.
Games don't need HD DVD or Blue Ray. I don't own a single PC game that uses an entire DVD right now, even after decompressing many of the levels and crap.
The format winner will not be one this november when the 360 is released or 6 months from now when the PS3 is released. It will be won when HDTV's are affordable, when the format is seemless and when the technology just works.
Blue-ray is not only an entirely different technology, it's a different package. No only will people have to retool entire publishing systems to support these, but different distribution, packaging and handling and whatnot.. Blue Ray is a different beast than a cd looking hd-dvd.
If a game system decided the future of TV media we would have been on huge catridges years ago and we would all own Neo-Geo controlled devices.
If HD DVD wins, PS3 users are screwed.
If Blue-ray wins, i'm only out the drive upgrade, not the entire console.
The true fact is i'll be enjoying the XBox 360 on my HDTV playing 720p and 1080i games 6-7 months before the PS3 is even released. Watching TV on my console is the LAST thing I want to do right now. I already have a tuned DVD system.
Just HOW many people are going to have HD the days these systems come out? TV's are selling like hotcakes, but the market is what, only 5%???
Most parents aren't going to hook a gaming system up to the main tv and if they do they probably will have dedicated blue ray/hd dvd systems anyway.
I'll be Happy playing my games while those who wait will loose out.
Intel is engineering for it's next gen chips that are still vaporware as far as i'm concerned. AMD put out some great technology that works today.
The big question will be who is the leader next year! As far as i'm concerned the opteron/amd64 has already proven intself against p4/xeon arch and it's up to the next gen chips to see who will stomp on who.
Will AMD pull some new tech? Will Intel be able to deliver or will sun come around and smack everyone with the new Niagra chips?
I hope we can rely on federal court to rid us of these patented monopolies.
We are running on Sun Cluster 3.1, so open source MPI libraries won't cut it as far as remaining certified for support. Sun doesn't support MPI over GigE because of the latency and timing which would cost more than IP over the same interface.
On a linux system, that would be an interesting benchmark for proof of concept, but not something a vendor would support us for.
This is for a large corporation so supported platforms is critical.. i don't believe redhat or suse have certified MPI over GigE in any form either.
Dolphin is the vendor, however for Sun Cluster 3.1 certification to support RAC on our "grid" requires the sun branded cards.. we are looking to get around that, but your right. you get screwed by the big vendors :)
ON linux oracle preaches Gig-E because it fits the affordable architecture, however after calling both Oracle and Sun they both run there core ERP system on SCI based systems :)
So they don't necessarily practice what they preach - however i guess they assume the scale of there customers is smaller. (which kind of defeats the purpose of scoping a GRID environment). RAC gig-e - "GRID" conceptually ????
Grid computing assumes scalability to a certain factor. The concept is consolidation of your datacenter to a grid environment of managed/hosted databases that are seemless to the end users and managed centrally.
Your options assume that your developing the grid as a proprietary system, which we are not.
We are looking at using Sun 490's, Solaris 10, Sun Cluster 3.1 and Oracle 10g RDBMS. All of which everything from GigE to SCI/Infiniband is supported on and all of which shareholders would highly approve of as it consolidates dozens of disperate systems into a common infrastucture to manage saving buttloads of money.
My question is more of real world experience vs labs and sales figures.
We have professionals on site, and i use that term loosely. Professinals are hardly proficient in proving the concept of grid computing because they few and far between.
:)
It comes down to a latency issue and figuring out how that latency impacts real world use and the answer comes down to how much money you want to throw at that problem.
My question is that latency that much for the interconnects that cutting it by high speed interconnects isn't lost in all of the other overheads in the system (such as local disk reads, processing and such)
The obvious efficiency of SCI over GigE is no IP overhead, less cpu cycles and a latency 1/10th of that of the fastest GigE card. Now is that latency saved worth it in the real world in spending 6k a node for the interconnect and 20k for a SCI switch or is Gig-E sufficient.
Without pre-building the system i don't know.. so i asked slashdot to see if anyone has any real world experience that isn't confined to a sales lab or some system totally tweaked out and not "Real world experience".
I've learned since posting that saturation of the connect isn't as much of a problem as the latency.. hopefully that helps in answering my concerns
We do this already for our generic RAC systems running mostly for high availability and some of the clustering functionality.
Our new platform will be the enterprise ERP suite and CRM with hundreds of concurrent users and live transactions running in everything from order entry, product configurator to processing invoices, taking support requests and all.
oh no doubt.. but it still has a ways to go when you compare it to sun or hpux.
My finding is everything can do in linux, i can do in sun/hpux cheaper. Will this change? ofcourse. And i *still* can't wait!
Postgresql doesn't scale what we need. We have over 600 concurrent web users and countless concurrent jobs and tons of replications and db links to other systems.
besides, postgressql has the same problem as redhat. You buy support and they will only support you on "supported" platforms that are hardly ever modern or optimized for the amount of transactions a large ERP system does.
Linux is the only platform that has this issue. It's up to redhat to get certified. Suse is in the process, but i don't know where that stands after novel purchased them.
For web servers, even j2ee application servers and open source stuff linux is fine and dandy, where i can't stand it is enterprise applications.
:(
I can't stand the horrible certification matrix that is a joke on RedHat AS. I can't stand the fact that vendors lock into specific redhat releases and NONE of those locks carry forward. I can't stand the fact that Redhat doesn't seem to care. "contact your software vendor".
Hence, i love solaris for enterprise applications - i'm talking about financial back end systems, i'm talking about heavy duty bpel, oracle sso, applicaitons 11i, oracle 10g grids and everything else. RedHat's TCO because of the lack of supported arch's is more than solaris or even HPUX which is downright scary.
I love my redhat boxen, i wish i could standardize on that platform. Why the hell hasn't the market caught up? i mean for christs sake oracle preaches linux day in and day out yet i have to run AS 2.1 or AS 3.0 and i can't run 64bit database back ends in certain mixes nad i have to have oracle kernel versions for this and that and yet all of this is supposed ot come together in some "proposed" future date.
They've only been saying that for 5 years now
I know in slashdot world, Microsoft is the bad guys, but microsoft pails in comparison to the "bad corporate netizen" that the soney behemouth is and has become.
Atleast the laws Microsoft tries to play under are much more fair to people across the world than that of sony.
Sony's products are cheap, break, lousy construction and the most properietary of anything i've ever seen. This comes from everything in PDA's to car stereo's and home theaters.
Give me something cheap, give me something universal and give me something that companies can utilize today.
PS2 was a hype, PS3 no don't will be.. how many times are we going to fall for this nonsense? Memory stick, betamax, properietary 5.1 processing, cheap receivers that never meat rates wattage, tv's that were good 20 years ago, game systems that don't deliver on the promise. The only good thing to come out of Sony today are 20,000 dollar CRT tubes. And even that is sliding in response to competition.
I certainly hope for the sake of DVD that HD DVD wins. Blueray is nothing but another behemouth trying to get the market to sway it's way. (or use proprietary hardware as a means of copy protection)
You have to run 9.2 and use specific version. GFS 6.1 looks like a life saver, but it could be years before that is certified against Oracle.
Infact the entire Redhat/Oracle certificaition process is a nightmare.
halo3 comes out when ps3 ships..
:)
the "trump" card if you ask me
Simple as that. Microsoft is holding Halo3 to ship the day the PS3 is shipped.
:)
Good plan if you ask me
The largest champion of the net.
Telecommuting for a job is much different than being the president when millions of people are homeless, thousands are dying and your out having cake and invite only parties?
He can mobilize the military and be a leader.
9/11 he was there within 15 hours, 8/29/05 8/29/05 he says he might show up by friday?
The point is he can mobilize people and make this a national priority. We can't afford the loss of 100 billion dollars of the economy, oil pipelines and such.
We rallied for war after 9/11, why the f can't we rally for piece, rally for safety, rally for those 1.5 million homeless pople across 5 states down there and work to make a difference for all?
Hmm.. hard drive version? aren't the fanboys bashing microsoft for this very reason? (xbox360 having 2 sku's as well)
Recent adwords "upgrades" are killing the very businesses/advertisers that put google on the map.
The company isn't nearly as "seemless" as some suggest, we only know what we do because people tear it apart.
If you watched Microsoft as close as you watch google the differences won't be that much these days. Google is out to destroy competition in everything.
Atleast microsoft had an "assimilate" approach where they would purchase x y z company and incorporate technology rather than absorb all talent & funding and develop within..
HOWEVER i do recognize google has done some assimilation as well.
Wait and see game, but it's funny how the blind follow google and hate microsoft
Amen Brotha