Twisted need not be web based at all. The idea is easy component reuse for high level inet services. It doesn't revolve around its webserver. It's one use but not its only.
Twisted is a programming framework. Swiss knive type of tool if you like python. Some of its web related stuff has resemblance with some of Zope's (that is web content manipulation etc) but it's a different thing overall. I don't dislike Zope, but I personally find twisted more interesting and general purpose. YMMV.
About the UNIX way: "small" components "each doing its small function, but doing it very well" is IMHO not a bad thing either:D
So should SCO's "actions" at some point in time include winning their case 91% of Linux deployers would NOT cut their losses and pay the sco tax? Nah.
People are too optimistic. We still have no details. We assume a lot but no one really knows what they have up their sleeves. And I would also be weary of the court's common sense and dedication to serious investigation and comprehension of the terms used ("source code", "kernel", you name it). And that is assuming it impartial to begin with. Can't even be sure about that.
I agree with many people that the USL/BSDi case will be considered precedental (sp) and despite some differences I feel this is correct. If that case is carefully studied by the court things aren't looking bad.
Ever tried pydoc? Built in. Browse the APIs. Usually with some explanatory text (that's built in also if you use docstrings). Once you grok the language this is all you need most of the times.
I've started looking into twisted lately and if you find zope too abstracted and rather hammer out code this is a very interesting project. Also webserver but also ftp, ssh, and more. Web app framework. Page templates.
It is different in the sense that it is more bare bones but has many features and 3rd party stuff and -- get this -- it's all about event loops. So you can have server side python scripts responding to browser (javascript) events. You can use a GUI toolkit as well. GUI app with e.g. an image (http) server? Import the web server module, instatiate a few classes, and go.
Very promising. Somewhat scarce documentation (but not outdated and confusing as I found zope's).
Unrelated: I first read you as: portage is the best written packman ever and wanted to reply in disagreement;-)
If they're allowed to change a page's rendering or content, they're allowed to also change toolbars and the like. They're legally inside your browser. Driveby installation of browser "enhancements" could be argued to use the same techniques. E.g. an xml template for the browser's GUI (mozilla, netscape, ie?) or an active X component (ie) could fall in the same realm.
I mentioned lop.com et al earlier but it's only now that I realize that it might be considered exactly the same. Makes sense as well, because they're all the same kind of critters of course.
I propose to call this practice "lopping" from now on.
We can't have gator take all the credit while the brave executioners at lop.com are doing so well lately. And let's also honour their clients who can have special versions of the lop.com software be made or do it themselves. They sorta pull the trigger. Roaches couldn't do better.
will be about the EULA and whether it can be legally enforced I'd reckon. Then compare that with other software licences like (L)GPL, BSD,... That would be something meaningful.
In the end, there's going to be man to man fighting anyhow. No matter what and no matter how many (innocent) people they kill with their wizz bang bombs.
Heaven forbid they'll find out that on TV nobody actually pays attention to the commercials either. That all this spending on advertising was all in vain anyway. That they had been better off not sacking their crunchies but save on advertising throwaways instead. That it's merely visual and auditory pollution. That people just find it annoying. Surely that couldn't be the case. The horror!
''[The Web is] so successful and so many people depend on it, it's become impossible to go to the core of the Internet and make radical changes to introduce the kind of new services we see people wanting to deploy,'' Princeton University scientist and Intel Research member Larry Peterson said during a conference call to the press.
How are changes so "radical" that it needs a newly designed system to merely do development and testing ever going to able to be gradually introduced into the "core of the Internet"?
It's interesting that you mention the "hippy stigma". Today's CEOs are from the hippy age. So are the corporate hawks running the US today. The neocons are former "liberals". And if you think this is a long stretch I got two words: Sonny Bono.
Typical isn't it. In business and government and surely also in the justice systems it seems that the 60s and early 70s produced quite its opposite in the end. It's not explained as a counter culture because it's those same people (at least for a substantial part it must be) that are in power now. Not all of them of course but many. It can't be explained adequately with coming of age either.
So maybe this is better put into terms of class and not of culture or zeitgeist. But in every zeit the geist will fall for it. And then the "hippy stigma" is just another stick to wack the dog with. The dog in this case is anything grassroots that appears to be gaining influence. Kneejerk reaction and thus popular amongst the influential and the chumps alike.
See it as an addon. Don't turn the blog (at home) into the whiteboard (in class). You're a teacher not a webmaster. Refrain from commenting on the blog yourself but merely read it and use it as feedback. Encourage students to use it though but let *them* do the discussing.
It took longer because it didn't have a win/win label at corporate places but it got there nonetheless.
Now you can always look down at personal or hobbyists sites or blogs, but they do have the potential to capture certain events in time in a much more intense way (plus feedback) than the conventional and certainly the Big 5 media corps could ever dream of.
It's like IM or SMS, it's a phenomenon that attracts many people and they build it while engaging, at least at the start. And any corp not smart enough to understand it or to find an obvious toll lock will either leave or loose or sue in that market.
And you know what, if they can't turn blogging into a corporately controlled thing than its usefullness might perhaps been only understated:-)
People will google if needed for what they want to read/see/hear.
IMHO in Real Life most of these OSS advocate people aren't quite as fanatical and bigmouthed as they'd like to be and in Online Life they can. And I don't mean that in a rotten way, I think it's just the way it is.
Slashdot Mirror
Twisted need not be web based at all. The idea is easy component reuse for high level inet services. It doesn't revolve around its webserver. It's one use but not its only.
:D
Twisted is a programming framework. Swiss knive type of tool if you like python. Some of its web related stuff has resemblance with some of Zope's (that is web content manipulation etc) but it's a different thing overall. I don't dislike Zope, but I personally find twisted more interesting and general purpose. YMMV.
About the UNIX way: "small" components "each doing its small function, but doing it very well" is IMHO not a bad thing either
So should SCO's "actions" at some point in time include winning their case 91% of Linux deployers would NOT cut their losses and pay the sco tax? Nah.
People are too optimistic. We still have no details. We assume a lot but no one really knows what they have up their sleeves. And I would also be weary of the court's common sense and dedication to serious investigation and comprehension of the terms used ("source code", "kernel", you name it). And that is assuming it impartial to begin with. Can't even be sure about that.
I agree with many people that the USL/BSDi case will be considered precedental (sp) and despite some differences I feel this is correct. If that case is carefully studied by the court things aren't looking bad.
Ever tried pydoc? Built in. Browse the APIs. Usually with some explanatory text (that's built in also if you use docstrings). Once you grok the language this is all you need most of the times.
pydoc -g
No criticism but an addition:
;-)
I've started looking into twisted lately and if you find zope too abstracted and rather hammer out code this is a very interesting project. Also webserver but also ftp, ssh, and more. Web app framework. Page templates.
It is different in the sense that it is more bare bones but has many features and 3rd party stuff and -- get this -- it's all about event loops. So you can have server side python scripts responding to browser (javascript) events. You can use a GUI toolkit as well. GUI app with e.g. an image (http) server? Import the web server module, instatiate a few classes, and go.
Very promising. Somewhat scarce documentation (but not outdated and confusing as I found zope's).
Unrelated: I first read you as: portage is the best written packman ever and wanted to reply in disagreement
If they're allowed to change a page's rendering or content, they're allowed to also change toolbars and the like. They're legally inside your browser. Driveby installation of browser "enhancements" could be argued to use the same techniques. E.g. an xml template for the browser's GUI (mozilla, netscape, ie?) or an active X component (ie) could fall in the same realm.
I mentioned lop.com et al earlier but it's only now that I realize that it might be considered exactly the same. Makes sense as well, because they're all the same kind of critters of course.
I propose to call this practice "lopping" from now on.
We can't have gator take all the credit while the brave executioners at lop.com are doing so well lately. And let's also honour their clients who can have special versions of the lop.com software be made or do it themselves. They sorta pull the trigger. Roaches couldn't do better.
OTOH, I dare LOP to LOP my FreeBSD box.
"Problems only start when you can't get access to the addictor anymore"
Or to the addicted.
Good post.
will be about the EULA and whether it can be legally enforced I'd reckon. Then compare that with other software licences like (L)GPL, BSD, ... That would be something meaningful.
Otherwise this is merely FUD.
In the end, there's going to be man to man fighting anyhow. No matter what and no matter how many (innocent) people they kill with their wizz bang bombs.
Which Beirut do you want to go to today?
Sorry, got flashbacks from the South Park movie. I can almost see Rummy deliver the speech.
Heaven forbid they'll find out that on TV nobody actually pays attention to the commercials either. That all this spending on advertising was all in vain anyway. That they had been better off not sacking their crunchies but save on advertising throwaways instead. That it's merely visual and auditory pollution. That people just find it annoying. Surely that couldn't be the case. The horror!
''[The Web is] so successful and so many people depend on it, it's become impossible to go to the core of the Internet and make radical changes to introduce the kind of new services we see people wanting to deploy,'' Princeton University scientist and Intel Research member Larry Peterson said during a conference call to the press.
How are changes so "radical" that it needs a newly designed system to merely do development and testing ever going to able to be gradually introduced into the "core of the Internet"?
Won't fly IMHO.
It's interesting that you mention the "hippy stigma". Today's CEOs are from the hippy age. So are the corporate hawks running the US today. The neocons are former "liberals". And if you think this is a long stretch I got two words: Sonny Bono.
Typical isn't it. In business and government and surely also in the justice systems it seems that the 60s and early 70s produced quite its opposite in the end. It's not explained as a counter culture because it's those same people (at least for a substantial part it must be) that are in power now. Not all of them of course but many. It can't be explained adequately with coming of age either.
So maybe this is better put into terms of class and not of culture or zeitgeist. But in every zeit the geist will fall for it. And then the "hippy stigma" is just another stick to wack the dog with. The dog in this case is anything grassroots that appears to be gaining influence. Kneejerk reaction and thus popular amongst the influential and the chumps alike.
Philosopher's hat off now.
See it as an addon. Don't turn the blog (at home) into the whiteboard (in class). You're a teacher not a webmaster. Refrain from commenting on the blog yourself but merely read it and use it as feedback. Encourage students to use it though but let *them* do the discussing.
(all IMHO of course)
Skipping over the vague anecdote and pleas for "fanatics" and "addicts" to start flaming (back), here's the obvious answer:
IT WORKS FOR ME
s/a/e in 'than'
hehe, you're doomed.
You should watch more TV instead.
It took longer because it didn't have a win/win label at corporate places but it got there nonetheless.
:-)
Now you can always look down at personal or hobbyists sites or blogs, but they do have the potential to capture certain events in time in a much more intense way (plus feedback) than the conventional and certainly the Big 5 media corps could ever dream of.
It's like IM or SMS, it's a phenomenon that attracts many people and they build it while engaging, at least at the start. And any corp not smart enough to understand it or to find an obvious toll lock will either leave or loose or sue in that market.
And you know what, if they can't turn blogging into a corporately controlled thing than its usefullness might perhaps been only understated
People will google if needed for what they want to read/see/hear.
Really, these devices are from before the .com burst. Things are different now and not just in marketing requirements.
And that's not bad. It keeps our beloved reasonably unencumbered and much-choice i386 ATX "open" PC architecture alive somewhat longer.
What do people want, and how much are they going to pay for it. If most people don't want it in the first place unless free...
SCO is on a crusade now. And that was kindof a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway.
IMHO in Real Life most of these OSS advocate people aren't quite as fanatical and bigmouthed as they'd like to be and in Online Life they can. And I don't mean that in a rotten way, I think it's just the way it is.
Blatantly said, you'll start worrying when they take away your neighbors.
Correct *shakes hand and buys virtual beer*
I meant DEA not NDA all these acronyms...