dan asked:
by Dan Ost (415913) Alter Relationship on Monday July 31, @10:44AM (#15817157) Out of curiosity, are you happier with Ubunto than you were with Gentoo?
i was the original poster. i agree with a lot of what the parent said, especially wrt the level of the documentation, in favor of gentoo. there are lots of negatives with both, but i'll focus on some positives.
pro gentoo: excellent docs the source is right there (helps debugging and configuring) package system is simple, and almost everything is in one place
pro ubuntu: lots of stuff just works (installer, wifi, etc) pkgs install faster
so i'm not dramatically happier with one or the other, and their focus is so different (expert vs newbie) that it probably doesn't make too much sense. i may stick with ubuntu for the experience (more mainstream) and because it's already running, but if it rains next weekend, i may just switch back:)
i've been running gentoo for a few years, but when i bought an x60 recently, the livecd wouldn't boot. so i tried ubuntu, at first thinking that i'd just use it to bootstrap gentoo, but this quickly faded into i'll try ubuntu, and then "i've spent all this time getting it to work, i guess i'm committed". so ubuntu for the last few months on my primary personal machine. and yes, a lot of stuff works.
but some things don't, and there doesn't seem to be any response at all from ubuntu. the biggest issue is a minute long hang during boot with the message "mounting root filesystem".
this thread is 18 pages long and started june 1st, and there are many other threads, bugreports, etc that are dealing with the same issue. there are a hundred "me toos", and one has to assume many people like me who haven't put their two cents in for every one who has. so i'm pretty sure it's not an isolated problem. and yet there is very little response from ubuntu. a few pages with sloppily put together work-arounds. but i haven't seen any sort of official statement on the problem or a commitment to fix it or a disclaimer in any of their pr that the problem exists, or even a statement of the scope of the problem (eg. which cpus are effected).
in some ways i'm very impressed with ubuntu, but responsiveness isn't one of them. in the gentoo world, there would have been a 10 page official document describing the problem, summarizing scope, offering work-arounds, and naming a team assigned to solving the problem.
not sure what you're looking for, but i'd had a similar "why doesn't anyone want to sell what i want to buy" feeling for quite a while re the laptop market.
the x1000 was what i had been waiting for - i didn't have to buy anything i didn't want, got a good video card (9200), decent linux support, pentium m, no wifi (i'll get a pcmcia card if i ever want it),...
hpshopping.com, and look for coupons. the most configurable laptop that i'd seen, and decent prices even without mail in rebates (another bain of the laptop market).
though now that i have it, i don't know wtf to do with it - it just sits next to my desktop and i mostly ssh in:)
i've been using the pop3 service for over a year, and every week i get the "yahoo delivers" spam. so i dutifully read it, and week after week, it's html email, which i've told them i can't read (well, i choose not to).
so if their spam wasn't paying the bills, it's atleast partially their own fault.
He avoided the problem of movement between exposures by using three lenses, each with a red, green or blue filter.
i don't think that this is true. the loc site says
He then photographed the same scene three times in a fairly rapid sequence using a red filter, a green filter and a blue filter.
also, the images show artifacts, eg. in the ripples of the water, that are easily explained by motion, that i don't think would be explained by slight differences in perspective. perhaps the "invisible" blue green man (mentioned in another comment) is an even better example.
just want to agree for the most part. a little long overall, but some great lines (oo cocked:) and just hearing someone stress the importance of being able to understand the hardware and software at once (without substantially more effort than the one) feels good.
i don't really get the need for lines vs. characters, but then i'm a c bigot.
if we can figure out how to recover our cost in buying one of these - eg. by being able to run linux/apache or even just for salvage parts - we could buy these things in mass, which has two desireable outcomes. we break even (or maybe even make a few $) and
1. M$ looses money (i saw $200 somewhere) on each one.
2. if M$ can't keep up with the (artificial) demand, paying customers (ie customers who are also going to buy games) won't be able to get there hands on them
how many do we need to buy to drive M$ out of business?
[ this reminds me of milo's cornering of the cotton market in catch 22 - he agreed to buy the entire crop at a fixed price, but the demand fell so that he was selling below cost, allowing the farmers to buy it from him and sell it right back at the higher fixed cost - but then i'm on a tangent;]
we probably also need to make enough noise to prevent the game companies from seeing the huge demand and actually believing that the platform (as opposed to the cheap hardware) is popular.
[i'm being lazy and assuming the parent is acurate - i haven't checked on my own]
finding a file in the network is done in a chain, with the first node that knows where the data is directing the file request straight to that node
doesn't this mean that a host can spoof, ie if it is first in the chain, it hears the request, and instead of sending you what you asked for, it pretends it knows where it is, and redirects to send you something else (ads, goatse, whatever).
first off, most of the (>=+2) comments so far seem to agree with the judge, think that the ruling is fair (perhaps the fine is high). these people and the moderators, need to spend less time sucking on the mass media pipe, and more time thinking for themselves - better yet, given the results so far, they might be better off not thinking for themselves and just spend a bit more time listening to rms, because they have become victims of the riaa/bsa/... propaganda he has cautioned about. you are thinking way inside the box.
beam it allowed:
a user to listen to his/her collection of music
that is all. the judge, and the fools that agree with the decision, have been caught up in the concept that mechanism matters. it does not. so long as the owner is the listener, any number of miles of wire, copper or aluminum or fiber, any transport format, any means of display (speaker or eg braile), is fair use.
the complaint is that beamit was a performance because it played music from cds mp3.com owned. this is bull. totb.
beamit's use of the cd serial number is nothing more than a means of compression.
the copyrighted data was read from the cd, sent to the remote site where it was stored, and then sent to the owner in another location. the format and the compression scheme changed along the way, but the end result is that the owner is listening to his own music
While the move to GPL is definitely a good one, it does not put qt on level ground with gtk/gnome. Most of the gtk/gnome libraries are LGPL, which allows dynamic linking by proprietary (non-GPL'd) applications, which is much better for "system" libraries.
I understand that licensing to commercial apps is the tt business model, and that is fine, but the GPL does not eliminate the issue license in choosing a graphics library (if you want to see proprietary apps for GNU/linux/...)
This is still a move to praise, but with the understanding that the qt/gtk competition is still important.
well, i guess i am lucky that my k7 600 showed up friday - unfortunately, i can't get it to boot.
system: msi k7 pro mainboard k7 600 250 w power supply pc100 32M
(also tried a 235w ps, 2x32M pc 100, and 1x128M pc 133)
the machine hangs on the memory test in all cases (those nice diagnostic led's are about the only thing that work). i have removed all the cards/disconnected ide etc cables, and nothing changes.
Even if M$ should deliver a usable MP for linux, the fact remains that they will control the "standard", and as such it is only a lease on the functionality, and not the panacea that some would have us believe (the same would be true of almost any M$ product eg. word). It would provide short term benefit in usability but long term would stiffle competition yet again, discouraging others from developing competing products.
And in the worst case, once real has collapsed, the linux MP could be gradually broken, leaving the situation even worse than it currently is. M$'s practices are monopolistic as always, taking a short-term loss in exchange for long-term market domination and extortion once a monopoly has been established.
rather than call for multi-platform support, we should be calling for fair business practices and gov't action to limit M$ right to pursue monopolistic practices.
(P.S. monopolistic illegal only if harm to consumers? how are we being harmed? an imminent monopoly by a company already proven to abuse its monopolies should be enough, especially in an industry where market share and interoperability are a major obstacle to entry.)
Speaking of The Bomb, check out The Bomb, a site dedicated to The Invisibles - Grant Morrison's counter-culture comic, a wonderfully weird mix of religion, drugs, aliens and revolution (Grant's been doing the JLA for a few years as well).
What about all of this pyramid-scheme crap that people push in their signature's on slashdot? Like the alladvantage crap. I think one of the moderation things options should be "SPAM".
Let's simplify things. How about: I think one of the moderation things options should be "SIG".
just made a quick search for my favorite distribution as a sanity check, and:
Distributors such as Stampede, notes Raymond, have taken Red Hat sources and recompiled them for Pentium-only architecture, vs. the default 386 compile.
i am not an expert, but i don't think stampede has done this at all, afaik every package is compile from origonal source, and not the srpms, but certainly, it is not the basis of the distribution. they write further:
Although this adds some processing speed, it sacrifices Red Hat support, and because the performance bottleneck is more likely to be in the I/O system, recompiling doesn't add that much real difference.
which i don't buy either - overall stampede feels damn snappy, although i haven't seen an actual fact-based analysis anywhere.
i haven't (and now probably won't) read the whole thing, but this is atleast one knock against the article.
First off, I think that Richard thinks I differ from him more than I do.
How could they differ more - the rest of the article goes on to talk only about the effiency of the open source development model, which RMS attached (quite well) in his critique of the apsl. i think this is just more of the redifining the question to get the answer you want.
without the foundation that the fsf laid, linux would have been much less likely to evolve to what it is today. could all the fsf stuff be replaced - certainly, but could the influence, the empowerment, be ignored. i do not think so. if tommorrow microsoft wrote there own implementation of the traditional unix stuff, so a distribution could be 75% ms, would ms/linux be appropriate. no. it isn't about percent. it is about spirit and legacy. it is, and always should be, gnu/linux - ie. one implementation of the vision that we should all thank rms for having.
well, obviously you rob, so thanks, but your last note said thanks to the new server, i think it came from var but i am not sure, guess i would like to send them a thank you too.
is there any way to have a indication of the new poll on the main page with no icons and no boxes. today's was an exception as the poll was mentioned in an article, so i found it by following the past polls, but in general that won't work. am i missing something in the preferences.
i agree completely, to accept a faulty liscense because it is well intentioned is insanity. stick to the gpl (though i do worry about the version n or later once rms dies (do idealists die?)).
Slashdot Mirror
dan asked:
:)
by Dan Ost (415913) Alter Relationship on Monday July 31, @10:44AM (#15817157)
Out of curiosity, are you happier with Ubunto than you were with Gentoo?
i was the original poster. i agree with a lot of what the parent said, especially wrt the level of the documentation, in favor of gentoo. there are lots of negatives with both, but i'll focus on some positives.
pro gentoo:
excellent docs
the source is right there (helps debugging and configuring)
package system is simple, and almost everything is in one place
pro ubuntu:
lots of stuff just works (installer, wifi, etc)
pkgs install faster
so i'm not dramatically happier with one or the other, and their focus is so different (expert vs newbie) that it probably doesn't make too much sense. i may stick with ubuntu for the experience (more mainstream) and because it's already running, but if it rains next weekend, i may just switch back
seth
i've been running gentoo for a few years, but when i bought an x60 recently, the livecd wouldn't boot. so i tried ubuntu, at first thinking that i'd just use it to bootstrap gentoo, but this quickly faded into i'll try ubuntu, and then "i've spent all this time getting it to work, i guess i'm committed". so ubuntu for the last few months on my primary personal machine. and yes, a lot of stuff works.
1 5&page=17
but some things don't, and there doesn't seem to be any response at all from ubuntu. the biggest issue is a minute long hang during boot with the message "mounting root filesystem".
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1861
this thread is 18 pages long and started june 1st, and there are many other threads, bugreports, etc that are dealing with the same issue. there are a hundred "me toos", and one has to assume many people like me who haven't put their two cents in for every one who has. so i'm pretty sure it's not an isolated problem. and yet there is very little response from ubuntu. a few pages with sloppily put together work-arounds. but i haven't seen any sort of official statement on the problem or a commitment to fix it or a disclaimer in any of their pr that the problem exists, or even a statement of the scope of the problem (eg. which cpus are effected).
in some ways i'm very impressed with ubuntu, but responsiveness isn't one of them. in the gentoo world, there would have been a 10 page official document describing the problem, summarizing scope, offering work-arounds, and naming a team assigned to solving the problem.
seth
not sure what you're looking for, but i'd had a similar "why doesn't anyone want to sell what i want to buy" feeling for quite a while re the laptop market.
...
:)
the x1000 was what i had been waiting for - i didn't have to buy anything i didn't want, got a good video card (9200), decent linux support, pentium m, no wifi (i'll get a pcmcia card if i ever want it),
hpshopping.com, and look for coupons. the most configurable laptop that i'd seen, and decent prices even without mail in rebates (another bain of the laptop market).
though now that i have it, i don't know wtf to do with it - it just sits next to my desktop and i mostly ssh in
cormac mccarthy's border trilogy
i've been using the pop3 service for over a year, and every week i get the "yahoo delivers" spam. so i dutifully read it, and week after week, it's html email, which i've told them i can't read (well, i choose not to).
so if their spam wasn't paying the bills, it's atleast partially their own fault.
i don't think that this is true. the loc site says
also, the images show artifacts, eg. in the ripples of the water, that are easily explained by motion, that i don't think would be explained by slight differences in perspective. perhaps the "invisible" blue green man (mentioned in another comment) is an even better example.
just want to agree for the most part. a little long overall, but some great lines (oo cocked :) and just hearing someone stress the importance of being able to understand the hardware and software at once (without substantially more effort than the one) feels good.
i don't really get the need for lines vs. characters, but then i'm a c bigot.
thanks
if we can figure out how to recover our cost in buying one of these - eg. by being able to run linux/apache or even just for salvage parts - we could buy these things in mass, which has two desireable outcomes. we break even (or maybe even make a few $) and
;]
1. M$ looses money (i saw $200 somewhere) on each one.
2. if M$ can't keep up with the (artificial) demand, paying customers (ie customers who are also going to buy games) won't be able to get there hands on them
how many do we need to buy to drive M$ out of business?
[ this reminds me of milo's cornering of the cotton market in catch 22 - he agreed to buy the entire crop at a fixed price, but the demand fell so that he was selling below cost, allowing the farmers to buy it from him and sell it right back at the higher fixed cost - but then i'm on a tangent
we probably also need to make enough noise to prevent the game companies from seeing the huge demand and actually believing that the platform (as opposed to the cheap hardware) is popular.
it would be 6.1
corporations are liscenced by the state, and as such should have similar responsibilities as the gov'ts that liscense them.
furthermore, the corporation has become the most likely path to totalitarian rule in america.
doesn't this mean that a host can spoof, ie if it is first in the chain, it hears the request, and instead of sending you what you asked for, it pretends it knows where it is, and redirects to send you something else (ads, goatse, whatever).
first off, most of the (>=+2) comments so far seem to agree with the judge, think that the ruling is fair (perhaps the fine is high). these people and the moderators, need to spend less time sucking on the mass media pipe, and more time thinking for themselves - better yet, given the results so far, they might be better off not thinking for themselves and just spend a bit more time listening to rms, because they have become victims of the riaa/bsa/... propaganda he has cautioned about. you are thinking way inside the box.
beam it allowed:
a user to listen to his/her collection of music
that is all. the judge, and the fools that agree with the decision, have been caught up in the concept that mechanism matters. it does not. so long as the owner is the listener, any number of miles of wire, copper or aluminum or fiber, any transport format, any means of display (speaker or eg braile), is fair use.
the complaint is that beamit was a performance because it played music from cds mp3.com owned. this is bull. totb.
beamit's use of the cd serial number is nothing more than a means of compression.
the copyrighted data was read from the cd, sent to the remote site where it was stored, and then sent to the owner in another location. the format and the compression scheme changed along the way, but the end result is that the owner is listening to his own music
While the move to GPL is definitely a good one, it does not put qt on level ground with gtk/gnome. Most of the gtk/gnome libraries are LGPL, which allows dynamic linking by proprietary (non-GPL'd) applications, which is much better for "system" libraries.
I understand that licensing to commercial apps is the tt business model, and that is fine, but the GPL does not eliminate the issue license in choosing a graphics library (if you want to see proprietary apps for GNU/linux/...)
This is still a move to praise, but with the understanding that the qt/gtk competition is still important.
well, i guess i am lucky that my k7 600 showed up friday - unfortunately, i can't get it to boot.
system:
msi k7 pro mainboard
k7 600
250 w power supply
pc100 32M
(also tried a 235w ps, 2x32M pc 100, and 1x128M pc 133)
the machine hangs on the memory test in all cases (those nice diagnostic led's are about the only thing that work). i have removed all the cards/disconnected ide etc cables, and nothing changes.
any thoughts ?
seth
Even if M$ should deliver a usable MP for linux, the fact remains that they will control the "standard", and as such it is only a lease on the functionality, and not the panacea that some would have us believe (the same would be true of almost any M$ product eg. word). It would provide short term benefit in usability but long term would stiffle competition yet again, discouraging others from developing competing products.
And in the worst case, once real has collapsed, the linux MP could be gradually broken, leaving
the situation even worse than it currently is. M$'s practices are monopolistic as always, taking a short-term loss in exchange for long-term market domination and extortion once a monopoly has been established.
rather than call for multi-platform support, we should be calling for fair business practices and gov't action to limit M$ right to pursue monopolistic practices.
(P.S. monopolistic illegal only if harm to consumers? how are we being harmed? an imminent monopoly by a company already proven to abuse its monopolies should be enough, especially in an industry where market share and interoperability are a major obstacle to entry.)
Speaking of The Bomb, check out The Bomb, a site dedicated to The Invisibles - Grant Morrison's counter-culture comic, a wonderfully weird mix of religion, drugs, aliens and revolution (Grant's been doing the JLA for a few years as well).
Let's simplify things. How about:
I think one of the moderation things options should be "SIG".
[slashdot_humor]
Correction: The exchange with Hemos might look more like this.
Me: Hemos, I have devised a way to build miniature construction equipment from individual atoms.
Hemos: [gasp!] Not Comment!
[/slashdot_humor]
just made a quick search for my favorite distribution as a sanity check, and:
Distributors such as Stampede, notes Raymond, have taken Red Hat sources and recompiled them for Pentium-only architecture, vs. the default 386 compile.
i am not an expert, but i don't think stampede has done this at all, afaik every package is compile from origonal source, and not the srpms, but certainly, it is not the basis of the distribution. they write further:
Although this adds some processing speed, it sacrifices Red Hat support, and because the performance bottleneck is more likely to be in the I/O system, recompiling doesn't add that much real difference.
which i don't buy either - overall stampede feels damn snappy, although i haven't seen an actual fact-based analysis anywhere.
i haven't (and now probably won't) read the whole thing, but this is atleast one knock against the article.
only one page of text in a katz piece, can't be him.
tim oriely begins:
First off, I think that Richard thinks I differ
from him more than I do.
How could they differ more - the rest of the article goes on to talk only about the effiency of the open source development model, which RMS attached (quite well) in his critique of the apsl. i think this is just more of the redifining the question to get the answer you want.
without the foundation that the fsf laid, linux would have been much less likely to evolve to what it is today. could all the fsf stuff be replaced - certainly, but could the influence, the empowerment, be ignored. i do not think so. if tommorrow microsoft wrote there own implementation of the traditional unix stuff, so a distribution could be 75% ms, would ms/linux be appropriate. no. it isn't about percent. it is about spirit and legacy. it is, and always should be, gnu/linux - ie. one implementation of the vision that we should all thank rms for having.
well, obviously you rob, so thanks, but your last note said thanks to the new server, i think it came from var but i am not sure, guess i would like to send them a thank you too.
is there any way to have a indication of the new poll on the main page with no icons and no boxes. today's was an exception as the poll was mentioned in an article, so i found it by following the past polls, but in general that won't work. am i missing something in the preferences.
rob, how about an icon for new polls
lytles
i agree completely, to accept a faulty liscense because it is well intentioned is insanity. stick to the gpl (though i do worry about the version n or later once rms dies (do idealists die?)).