Re:Good.. we need Ideas, not just complaints
on
"Squishy" DRM?
·
· Score: 1
What needs to be done is more people seriously thinking of DRM models that are good but flexable on a Personal level.
Its going to come, one way or another, so the best course of action is to attempt to develope one that is "Fair". If it means that you cant send your DVD you ripped over the net, Fine, you cant do it, but maybe it can be written so that you can Fairly RIP your DVD to a Video Disk that you can view on your LAPtop that for some reason doesnt have a DVD player.
I think it's completely fair that I should be allowed to make a completely functional backup of _any_ media I buy. I have an extremely hyper 7 year old, a 2 1/2 year old, and an extremely destructive (at times) cat. Shit happens. DVDs and CDs get damaged. I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to shell out for the $75 box set again because my pet knocked the box off my bookshelf. Without even getting into other fair use areas (excerpting bits for mixes, etc) at the bare minimum the media companies should either allow me to make backups or bear the full cost of replacements.
This "squishy DRM" system, which puts a unique identifier in each record ("record" in copyright law refers to a copy of a recording) but doesn't restrict fair uses, allows copyright holders to identify those who break the laws so that prosecution can begin. I find it an appropriate compromise, as long as there's a way for any individual copyright owner to mark a record for free redistribution.
I'm inclined to be a bit happier about this idea as well. It would allow the actual infringers to be tracked down. It does have some problems however. If I give my pal Bob 1 copy of the song, say on a mix cd, that is covered under both general fair use and the specific provisions of the Audio Home Recording act. If he then takes that (legally) shared file and hosts it on kazza who's gonna get busted? This is why the industry needs to focus on the prosecution of those on the recieving end of the transfer, not the sending.
There are also a number of privacy issues, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
... has anyone that was _not_ a terrorist or at least suspicious ever been detained because of these laws? Has there ever been any false arrests? I doubt it...
Several that we know of already, if you keep up with CNN. Who knows how many we don't know about.. that's part of the big problem here. People are still being held without access to the outside world. No judges, no lawyers, nothing. The administration doesn't let anyone in the public see their reasons or their evidence either. Dubya and his underlings have decided they have the sole authority to determine who is a suspect, and what they do with them when they catch them. This is a BAD THING(TM).
All of the above points are fine and valid (save the copyright one.. see other reply). One of my primary points being you would still have to either give up right away or drag it through court. Given that it would cost the average person a few thousand dollars in lawyers fees even if the judge dismisses the case outright, assuming you actually retain legal council (and you'll have a hard time getting a judgement like that without) how many people would risk that?
There are game companies will replace a broken/lost disc for free (even pay shipping). Send them some artifact, like the original CD case with insert, and they'll mail you a new one. I know Blizzard does this, since my college roommate lost his Starcraft CD, but still had the case.
Yeah, there's a few that do that. Mailing off and not having it for that period of time still makes a poor substitute for playing it faster (both in not hunting down the cd and in load times) and not risking the loss in the fist place.
No one person could really use all this storage in a home/personal computing needs (THAT ARE LEGITMATE)
I disagree. Between myself and my wife we have nearly a thousand CDs. If I wanted to store those in FLAC format, I would need a LOT of space. Plus I do some video editing. I also prefer to have my (legally bought and paid for) games play directly off the hardrive so my 7 year old and 2 1/2 year old sons are not trying to swap CDs that would cost 60 bucks to replace. If I had that kind of storage, I could use the bulk of it. And in a few years when people start wanting to do video editing in HDTV resolutions this will be a minimum.
Why the hell does everyone scream "DMCA" everywhere... this does not violate the DMCA for two reasons: 1) it's an analog recording 2) there's no copy protection
First, I was being sarcastic. Second, since when does something actually being a vilation of the law stop the RIAA or MPAA from hauling someone into court? Third, should the about groups decide they want to get rid of this technology they could find grounds to at least brind a suit (imagine the following in full legalise and issued from an RIAA lawyer):
The copy prevention technolgoy is inherient in the physical medium. Being an analogue medium that must be read by physical contact provides that no unauthorized copies have been made. By transcribing (in itself an illegal act under copyright law) the information into digital form the defendant is bypassing our Physical Layer Encryption Technology(TM) (Patent pending). This is clearly in violation of the circumvention provisions of the DMCA.
Would it fly? I would hope not... but given the rock-stupid outcome of the DeCSS case I would hate to have money on it.
And pay clerks by the number of patents they reject rather than pass
This would be almost as bad as the current system. The clerks should have absolutely no incentive at all based on the outcome of the patent. It should be a pure salary, period.
Remember that a patent documents a single technique in great detail, it cannot be something vague and generic like "auctions"
Someone patented a method by which you entertain a cat by projecting light on the carpet via a laser point. And that's not even a software patent. Yes, patents [b]can[/b] be stupidly vague.
I just remember it meandering and, as far as I could tell, making up legends etc to suit the story.
Other way around, actually. The myths and legends Gaiman used were all very close to the historic tales. A lot of them seem off, but that's a result of modern filtering more than Gaiman changing anything for his plot.
that angel-and-devil one with terry pratchett (which amazingly was pretty good, and terry pratchett is a grade A twat)
Good Omens. Great book. I like Pratchett quite a bit as well though, so...
As an aside, has anyone read Coraline? I'm tempted to buy it even though it's meant to be a kid's book:)
Yes. Got the special glowie previews special edition one. Quite a good little book. Great tone and some wonderous imagery. It doesn't have the quite depth that much of his other work has but then, as you said, it is a children's book.
I say he's not helping anyone's cause by adopting (purely for the sake of being artsy, IMO) the writing style of a horny 14 year-old IM freak.
I agree that it doesn't help the readability and respectability that he writes that way. However, I think the "writes like" causation runs the other way. As early as 1981 Prince started doing substitutions like that (U for you in 'Jack U Off' from Controversy) and it was even stronger in evidence by 1984 (Purple Rain - 'I Would Die 4 U'). While those examples don't predate the net itself they do vastly predate use by the masses.
Personally I think it's because London (with its 3000 years of history) provides a much more interesting canvas on which to paint...
American gods? Cable TV and Fords. (Sorry, that was unnecessary, but you get the point)
That was sorta kinda one of the primary points. America doesn't have a past and a history and are continually in the process of recycling/destroying the old to make way for the new.
The biggest hang-up with Ogg right now is the lack of hardware player support. Until a large number of the little gizmo type music players can get music out of a.ogg the format is not going to go that far.
Remeber.. all modern contracts have a bit at the end that says "subject to change without notice". Which, of course, defeates the purpose of having a contract in the first place.
Not to mention the retarded copy management. I've heard plenty of stories of bands with demos on DAT where the master was destroyed/lost. All the backups are worthless. You can listen to them but you can't get to the sounds to reproduce them.
Yeah, we knew someone would. But you don't need to thrash the first person to do so. Given that both posted at the same time modding him down seems uncalled for. At least neither of them was screaming "FP". Trying to post useful and relevant information as the first post should be encouraged.
Perhaps when the lone creator of the religion declared it false?
That really is irrelevent to the discussion. Just because the founder "strayed from the path" doesn't change the fact that people believe in the path itself.
You missed an important point in all that - they were talking about the E3 Demo. They weren't excited about the tech demo. They (and you) don't know jack squat about what the actually game is going to be/play like. Don't flap your gums about what the game is or isn't until there is at least an actual completed game available.
My point? E-commerce is a fantasy, and maybe someday it can really become useful. But right now it's a novelty item, and as such only novelty shops (such as porn shops) can really make any money.
No, not completely. It is an amazing resource for more nitch items. Things you can't just "go down to best buy" and get. Between myself and my wife we've spent thousands of dollars over the past few years ording stuff online tha simply is not available with any degree of convience locally. Comic books/graphic novels and wiccain/new age supplies for example. It's more than an hour round trip for me to go to even a small store that carries any resonable amount of those. Even if I do that I'll pay more to boot. This is part of the reason Ebay has been such a hit. You can find those weirdo out-there items that you just can't find in meatspace without investing a large chunk of your time in the search.
Programmers the world over decide to ignore the GPL and pretend it doesn't exist until it causes trouble.
Way to go Linus.
If they have fundamental issues with code being copyrightable, sure. If they chose to challenge the system that way that's their business.
Linus, and most of the rest of the coding community (and most informed users as well) have basic issues with the idea of algorithms/methods being covered under patent law. It's not a disregard for all IP laws, just a particularly bad one.
Slashdot Mirror
What needs to be done is more people seriously thinking of DRM models that are good but flexable on a Personal level.
Its going to come, one way or another, so the best course of action is to attempt to develope one that is "Fair". If it means that you cant send your DVD you ripped over the net, Fine, you cant do it, but maybe it can be written so that you can Fairly RIP your DVD to a Video Disk that you can view on your LAPtop that for some reason doesnt have a DVD player.
I think it's completely fair that I should be allowed to make a completely functional backup of _any_ media I buy. I have an extremely hyper 7 year old, a 2 1/2 year old, and an extremely destructive (at times) cat. Shit happens. DVDs and CDs get damaged. I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to shell out for the $75 box set again because my pet knocked the box off my bookshelf. Without even getting into other fair use areas (excerpting bits for mixes, etc) at the bare minimum the media companies should either allow me to make backups or bear the full cost of replacements.
This "squishy DRM" system, which puts a unique identifier in each record ("record" in copyright law refers to a copy of a recording) but doesn't restrict fair uses, allows copyright holders to identify those who break the laws so that prosecution can begin. I find it an appropriate compromise, as long as there's a way for any individual copyright owner to mark a record for free redistribution.
I'm inclined to be a bit happier about this idea as well. It would allow the actual infringers to be tracked down. It does have some problems however. If I give my pal Bob 1 copy of the song, say on a mix cd, that is covered under both general fair use and the specific provisions of the Audio Home Recording act. If he then takes that (legally) shared file and hosts it on kazza who's gonna get busted? This is why the industry needs to focus on the prosecution of those on the recieving end of the transfer, not the sending.
There are also a number of privacy issues, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
... has anyone that was _not_ a terrorist or at least suspicious ever been detained because of these laws? Has there ever been any false arrests? I doubt it...
Several that we know of already, if you keep up with CNN. Who knows how many we don't know about.. that's part of the big problem here. People are still being held without access to the outside world. No judges, no lawyers, nothing. The administration doesn't let anyone in the public see their reasons or their evidence either. Dubya and his underlings have decided they have the sole authority to determine who is a suspect, and what they do with them when they catch them. This is a BAD THING(TM).
All of the above points are fine and valid (save the copyright one.. see other reply). One of my primary points being you would still have to either give up right away or drag it through court. Given that it would cost the average person a few thousand dollars in lawyers fees even if the judge dismisses the case outright, assuming you actually retain legal council (and you'll have a hard time getting a judgement like that without) how many people would risk that?
There are game companies will replace a broken/lost disc for free (even pay shipping). Send them some artifact, like the original CD case with insert, and they'll mail you a new one. I know Blizzard does this, since my college roommate lost his Starcraft CD, but still had the case.
Yeah, there's a few that do that. Mailing off and not having it for that period of time still makes a poor substitute for playing it faster (both in not hunting down the cd and in load times) and not risking the loss in the fist place.
No one person could really use all this storage in a home/personal computing needs (THAT ARE LEGITMATE)
I disagree. Between myself and my wife we have nearly a thousand CDs. If I wanted to store those in FLAC format, I would need a LOT of space. Plus I do some video editing. I also prefer to have my (legally bought and paid for) games play directly off the hardrive so my 7 year old and 2 1/2 year old sons are not trying to swap CDs that would cost 60 bucks to replace. If I had that kind of storage, I could use the bulk of it. And in a few years when people start wanting to do video editing in HDTV resolutions this will be a minimum.
Why the hell does everyone scream "DMCA" everywhere... this does not violate the DMCA for two reasons:
1) it's an analog recording
2) there's no copy protection
First, I was being sarcastic. Second, since when does something actually being a vilation of the law stop the RIAA or MPAA from hauling someone into court? Third, should the about groups decide they want to get rid of this technology they could find grounds to at least brind a suit (imagine the following in full legalise and issued from an RIAA lawyer):
The copy prevention technolgoy is inherient in the physical medium. Being an analogue medium that must be read by physical contact provides that no unauthorized copies have been made. By transcribing (in itself an illegal act under copyright law) the information into digital form the defendant is bypassing our Physical Layer Encryption Technology(TM) (Patent pending). This is clearly in violation of the circumvention provisions of the DMCA.
Would it fly? I would hope not... but given the rock-stupid outcome of the DeCSS case I would hate to have money on it.
Not revealing the code is a little suspecious.
Of course if he did post the code he would be violating the DMCA.
That would be good.. that's just a job performance review metered by a tangible outside measurement.
Yea, it could be good for the country but the CEO would promptly be sued into the ground by the shareholders.
And pay clerks by the number of patents they reject rather than pass
This would be almost as bad as the current system. The clerks should have absolutely no incentive at all based on the outcome of the patent. It should be a pure salary, period.
Remember that a patent documents a single technique in great detail, it cannot be something vague and generic like "auctions"
Someone patented a method by which you entertain a cat by projecting light on the carpet via a laser point. And that's not even a software patent. Yes, patents [b]can[/b] be stupidly vague.
I just remember it meandering and, as far as I could tell, making up legends etc to suit the story.
:)
Other way around, actually. The myths and legends Gaiman used were all very close to the historic tales. A lot of them seem off, but that's a result of modern filtering more than Gaiman changing anything for his plot.
that angel-and-devil one with terry pratchett (which amazingly was pretty good, and terry pratchett is a grade A twat)
Good Omens. Great book. I like Pratchett quite a bit as well though, so...
As an aside, has anyone read Coraline? I'm tempted to buy it even though it's meant to be a kid's book
Yes. Got the special glowie previews special edition one. Quite a good little book. Great tone and some wonderous imagery. It doesn't have the quite depth that much of his other work has but then, as you said, it is a children's book.
I say he's not helping anyone's cause by adopting (purely for the sake of being artsy, IMO) the writing style of a horny 14 year-old IM freak.
I agree that it doesn't help the readability and respectability that he writes that way. However, I think the "writes like" causation runs the other way. As early as 1981 Prince started doing substitutions like that (U for you in 'Jack U Off' from Controversy) and it was even stronger in evidence by 1984 (Purple Rain - 'I Would Die 4 U'). While those examples don't predate the net itself they do vastly predate use by the masses.
Personally I think it's because London (with its 3000 years of history) provides a much more interesting canvas on which to paint...
American gods? Cable TV and Fords. (Sorry, that was unnecessary, but you get the point)
That was sorta kinda one of the primary points. America doesn't have a past and a history and are continually in the process of recycling/destroying the old to make way for the new.
The biggest hang-up with Ogg right now is the lack of hardware player support. Until a large number of the little gizmo type music players can get music out of a .ogg the format is not going to go that far.
There are a few others, but that's the biggest.
Remeber.. all modern contracts have a bit at the end that says "subject to change without notice". Which, of course, defeates the purpose of having a contract in the first place.
Not to mention the retarded copy management. I've heard plenty of stories of bands with demos on DAT where the master was destroyed/lost. All the backups are worthless. You can listen to them but you can't get to the sounds to reproduce them.
Yeah, we knew someone would. But you don't need to thrash the first person to do so. Given that both posted at the same time modding him down seems uncalled for. At least neither of them was screaming "FP". Trying to post useful and relevant information as the first post should be encouraged.
Perhaps when the lone creator of the religion declared it false?
That really is irrelevent to the discussion. Just because the founder "strayed from the path" doesn't change the fact that people believe in the path itself.
You missed an important point in all that - they were talking about the E3 Demo. They weren't excited about the tech demo. They (and you) don't know jack squat about what the actually game is going to be/play like. Don't flap your gums about what the game is or isn't until there is at least an actual completed game available.
Ummm... Stuntman, Test Drive, Unreal Tournament, and this little game called Neverwinter Nights are under the Atari label. ;)
My point? E-commerce is a fantasy, and maybe someday it can really become useful. But right now it's a novelty item, and as such only novelty shops (such as porn shops) can really make any money.
No, not completely. It is an amazing resource for more nitch items. Things you can't just "go down to best buy" and get. Between myself and my wife we've spent thousands of dollars over the past few years ording stuff online tha simply is not available with any degree of convience locally. Comic books/graphic novels and wiccain/new age supplies for example. It's more than an hour round trip for me to go to even a small store that carries any resonable amount of those. Even if I do that I'll pay more to boot. This is part of the reason Ebay has been such a hit. You can find those weirdo out-there items that you just can't find in meatspace without investing a large chunk of your time in the search.
Programmers the world over decide to ignore the GPL and pretend it doesn't exist until it causes trouble.
Way to go Linus.
If they have fundamental issues with code being copyrightable, sure. If they chose to challenge the system that way that's their business.
Linus, and most of the rest of the coding community (and most informed users as well) have basic issues with the idea of algorithms/methods being covered under patent law. It's not a disregard for all IP laws, just a particularly bad one.
Shareware is still around.. we just call them demos now. How many major games come out that didn't have a demo available?