Was that an occulting disk or an occluding disk? Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart, you know, just by looking at them, and all the naked savages dancing around one of them;)
True that it's not just hardware. But the hardware potions of it are yours to mess with and/or destroy as you see fit.
However - did your card come with a software EULA? My Voodoo didn't. When they have sold me that card, if it didn't come with that EULA that I had to agree with in order to use it, then they cannot have the right to deny me the use of it. As I recall, the EULAs that come with those is for the drivers only. Since I never use windows or its drivers, they can deny me those drivers as much as they want. They can have them back.
It just so happens that ATI has a little bit of a soft spot in their wallets for XFree86, and provides docs for driver development. For that alone I think my next card will be an ATI. It doesn't hurt that the newer cards they have out now kick a large amount of ass.
Anyway, point is, if I didn't have to agree with any EULA to use the card, or the firmware embedded into it, then no one has any right to direct, curtail, guide, or revoke my right to do with it as I please. Even if I sold a copy of the software on the BIOS it wouldn't do them or me any harm or good.
WRONG. After you've paid your money, for the hardware, ATI cannot force you to give it back. This is not software (don't get me started there). Hardware is YOURS.
At least they're giving us Linux users something. Most companies don't even have us on the radar. I own all but 1 game Loki ported, and I'll buy more but only if more are written.
If all you're going to do is bitch about 'Oh This Game Sucks' then go play your windows games. Those of us who are happy to have this attention (admittedly, it's not that much) will still buy a version of almost any commercial game that's aimed at us just because we believe in what we run and why we run it and believe that it deserves the attention of even the most unfree of software companies. Even if they work against us. All the attention does is validate those of us who believe we have something that can't be ignored.
Oh, you're asking for this one. Any support guy ever refuse to call you back? With your refusal to help yourself you get a reputation among any support staff (Newsgroup, IRC or commercial) of being lazy and unable to think for yourself. These people chew up time and resources of two companies, not just the one.
My beef is with those who don't read the manual. If someone read it, found the answer wasn't there, then called, it's the right thing to do. If it's on page 2, you deserve to be hung up on. Personally I don't do that, but when I don't it keeps me from getting back to those who actually need my help. Imagine how happy those people are when you finally get a chance to call them. If they've got a support contract, you've just cost the contract renewal.
No one's asking anyone to remember a 300-page manual. They're asking the customer to be willing to open it. It takes time, money and effort to WTFM (much, much more than it takes to read it), and they're supposed to be designed to teach the reader enough that they shouldn't *HAVE* to call support. If no one reads them, why don't we all stop wasting the time to write them? We can just spend hours on the phone explaining to the average retard what should have been on page 2!
It's time to stop nitpicking, and to prove it, I'll do some of my own:
Apache - everyone agrees.
XF86, KDE, Gnome, blah, blah... no one in their right mind thinks of these as one project. Do you know what's in that little box on your desk?
FreeBSD - stop using CVS. Only idiots and developers update through CVS. Stable systems use releases. Successful as hell.
Mozilla - Opened to save the codebase and pride of a company killed by technically illegal market leveraging. Succeeded in that respect. Still a nice browser, if one likes the look of Netscape.
TCP/IP - OSS through and through. Before you could use the protocols, someone had to implement them. Project, yes. Successful, hell yes.
DNS/Bind - Yup. Right on that one. Better exist, but are not widespread. Prone to drop you to a shell at the drop of a hat, but successful, definitely.
ReiserFS, CVS, RCS - If you don't know what CVS is, what are you doing updating FreeBSD through it??
Emacs, vim - I agree. Except for that without vim, many Unices wouldn't come with an editor and every admin should know to use it - if he doesn't, I'd fire him.
Perl, Python..etc. - Agree here. But, why aren't you lumping bash with the second item above?
I'm a support guy, and I get this all the time. There's a difference between reading from a script (most commercial support) and knowing what to do. The vast majority of OSS projects sport developers who know what they are doing when it comes to their own program. The people who respond to you on IRC chats may have also been through that particular problem you might have, fixed it, and can tell you how they did it. For that particular issue, with that particular program, they are about as close to qualified as the developer could be - especially if they can direct you to a patch or can tell you about a workaround or two. If someone in the know about a program tells you to RTFM then there is a good chance that the keys to the fix are there - but you have to RTFM. I can't tell you how much it pisses me off when some asshole takes up my valuable time bitching about something he would have seen on page 7 if he had bothered to just look it up. I wrote a good portion of the exercises in my company's product manual, I know that when a customer has a question about an exercise, he/she has a real interest in getting a problem solved - but when they ask for stupid things I covered, they just want me to do their work for them.
Support costs are not just the money spent in contracts and phone bills. They also include the time spent solving an issue. If that time could have been spent solving a 'my machine is down and I can't figure out why but I've tried this and this and this' it's much more worthwhile than answering the 'how do I run this here program' question.
Take it from me, support is cheaper the more of the manual you read - and the support guy hates you less.
Eh. I kinda agree. We're not all that free over here, and we have to make a lot of money to live without going into the red in our checkbooks. Every time I read slashdot I read about something else I'm not allowed to do, and I suddenly remember I don't have the money to change it. It's all the same. If I can ever afford a dvd burner I'm goint to copy my Matrix dvd and give it to a friend just to say that I broke that stupid DMCA law. I'm such a rebel.
And to whoever come up with that stupid 'you people don't do anything original so you can't understand what the authors went through to make that dvd you just ripped' had better think again. I've been a musician for 15 years, a programmer for 5, and I just wrote a pilot episode for a series that George Lucas will never make because a.) he's a selfish prick who doesn't understand that his creation is bigger and more important than he is and b.) he'd be jealous because I write better than he does.
I've been on both sides of the equation for a long time. If I were given the choice of having to force people not to make copies of my work and then not buy it, or not buy it and copy it freely, I'd rather they copied it. I'd rather they listen to/read/run/watch a pirated copy of what I made than pay cash for that crap we've been spoonfed in this country for 30 years.
Wow, that may have to be my last slashdot comment - I'd say it pretty much sums up what I've been trying to get across since I started reading it.
We've all seen all this before... see emacs vs. vi.
I prefer Linux for development. Why? The internal APIs are based upon a multi-vendor standard. Code I write there can usually be compiled on another platform without change of any kind. Can't say that for Windows. I like to write programs with OpenGL on my desktop and compile and run them on my laptop - loaded with FreeBSD. In fact, almost any GUI code I write can run on another platform, just not Windows.
In effect, apples to oranges. The only two reasons I've ever written anything on Windows are: 1. Did it for School and 2. Had to couple it to Excel.
There. That's my contribution to the argument, I hope y'all had fun suckering me out of moderating this thread.
Oh, come on. It's not like we don't already have enough conveniences to make us fat and lazy. What's wrong with getting up out of your chair to close the blinds? Jeez, this stuff may be cool to look at but it's way too much money to spend on something you don't need that didn't really warrant a/. thread. If you've got the money to protect a freakin' wine collection with a thumbprint lock, I can think of at least a thousand other uses for you!
I got asked 'What does systems analysis mean to you?' in a f*@#ing interview once, right out of school. What the hell kind of stupid question is that? The next thing I remember is this guy asking if I know how to structure a query in Access.
<rant> I need to ask you tech interviewers something - do you guys ever research what you're hiring for before you jump in thinking you know anything? Being interviewed by someone who asks questions like these is both embarrassing and assinine, in addition to a complete waste of both the propect's and your time. </rant>
They can get it, legally, without paying 3 months' salary. That's why it's being adopted in 3rd worlds countries all over the globe. People like to obey the laws, but if they can't, they won't. Linux gives them a way to do what they need to without 'stealing' anything.
I haven't read Firefly, but do you suppose that P.A. was trying to make you feel the way you do? It doesn't sound like these are things he wrote just for the joy of writing them - perhaps he was trying to shake you (the reader) up some?
There has been a post or two here who seem to have forgotten that first paragraph of the Bill of Rights. Even if pr0n is a protected form of speech, I *HIGHLY* doubt this is intended that way.
Slashdot Mirror
Was that an occulting disk or an occluding disk? Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart, you know, just by looking at them, and all the naked savages dancing around one of them ;)
True that it's not just hardware. But the hardware potions of it are yours to mess with and/or destroy as you see fit.
However - did your card come with a software EULA? My Voodoo didn't. When they have sold me that card, if it didn't come with that EULA that I had to agree with in order to use it, then they cannot have the right to deny me the use of it. As I recall, the EULAs that come with those is for the drivers only. Since I never use windows or its drivers, they can deny me those drivers as much as they want. They can have them back.
It just so happens that ATI has a little bit of a soft spot in their wallets for XFree86, and provides docs for driver development. For that alone I think my next card will be an ATI. It doesn't hurt that the newer cards they have out now kick a large amount of ass.
Anyway, point is, if I didn't have to agree with any EULA to use the card, or the firmware embedded into it, then no one has any right to direct, curtail, guide, or revoke my right to do with it as I please. Even if I sold a copy of the software on the BIOS it wouldn't do them or me any harm or good.
Ok, so that makes 1 of you.
WRONG. After you've paid your money, for the hardware, ATI cannot force you to give it back. This is not software (don't get me started there). Hardware is YOURS.
At least they're giving us Linux users something. Most companies don't even have us on the radar. I own all but 1 game Loki ported, and I'll buy more but only if more are written.
If all you're going to do is bitch about 'Oh This Game Sucks' then go play your windows games. Those of us who are happy to have this attention (admittedly, it's not that much) will still buy a version of almost any commercial game that's aimed at us just because we believe in what we run and why we run it and believe that it deserves the attention of even the most unfree of software companies. Even if they work against us. All the attention does is validate those of us who believe we have something that can't be ignored.
Aww... come on. Which would your manager want to see... a programmer sleeping or a programmer with a smile on his face?
/* don't mind me I just work here */
There's one minor flaw in your alcohol story. Neurons don't reproduce! If they did, we wouldn't have stupid people!
Alas, you are correct. The mention of source on the website is merely a mention. There's some there, but not enough to call it community support.
The source is included in the package. download it and check it.
'eòlas' is Scottish Gaelic for 'knowledge'.
Oh, you're asking for this one. Any support guy ever refuse to call you back? With your refusal to help yourself you get a reputation among any support staff (Newsgroup, IRC or commercial) of being lazy and unable to think for yourself. These people chew up time and resources of two companies, not just the one.
My beef is with those who don't read the manual. If someone read it, found the answer wasn't there, then called, it's the right thing to do. If it's on page 2, you deserve to be hung up on. Personally I don't do that, but when I don't it keeps me from getting back to those who actually need my help. Imagine how happy those people are when you finally get a chance to call them. If they've got a support contract, you've just cost the contract renewal.
No one's asking anyone to remember a 300-page manual. They're asking the customer to be willing to open it. It takes time, money and effort to WTFM (much, much more than it takes to read it), and they're supposed to be designed to teach the reader enough that they shouldn't *HAVE* to call support. If no one reads them, why don't we all stop wasting the time to write them? We can just spend hours on the phone explaining to the average retard what should have been on page 2!
If all my foes were cowards, I'd be doing wonderfully.
It's time to stop nitpicking, and to prove it, I'll do some of my own:
Apache - everyone agrees.
XF86, KDE, Gnome, blah, blah... no one in their right mind thinks of these as one project. Do you know what's in that little box on your desk?
FreeBSD - stop using CVS. Only idiots and developers update through CVS. Stable systems use releases. Successful as hell.
Mozilla - Opened to save the codebase and pride of a company killed by technically illegal market leveraging. Succeeded in that respect. Still a nice browser, if one likes the look of Netscape.
TCP/IP - OSS through and through. Before you could use the protocols, someone had to implement them. Project, yes. Successful, hell yes.
DNS/Bind - Yup. Right on that one. Better exist, but are not widespread. Prone to drop you to a shell at the drop of a hat, but successful, definitely.
ReiserFS, CVS, RCS - If you don't know what CVS is, what are you doing updating FreeBSD through it??
Emacs, vim - I agree. Except for that without vim, many Unices wouldn't come with an editor and every admin should know to use it - if he doesn't, I'd fire him.
Perl, Python..etc. - Agree here. But, why aren't you lumping bash with the second item above?
This has gotten OT.
I'm a support guy, and I get this all the time. There's a difference between reading from a script (most commercial support) and knowing what to do. The vast majority of OSS projects sport developers who know what they are doing when it comes to their own program. The people who respond to you on IRC chats may have also been through that particular problem you might have, fixed it, and can tell you how they did it. For that particular issue, with that particular program, they are about as close to qualified as the developer could be - especially if they can direct you to a patch or can tell you about a workaround or two. If someone in the know about a program tells you to RTFM then there is a good chance that the keys to the fix are there - but you have to RTFM. I can't tell you how much it pisses me off when some asshole takes up my valuable time bitching about something he would have seen on page 7 if he had bothered to just look it up. I wrote a good portion of the exercises in my company's product manual, I know that when a customer has a question about an exercise, he/she has a real interest in getting a problem solved - but when they ask for stupid things I covered, they just want me to do their work for them.
Support costs are not just the money spent in contracts and phone bills. They also include the time spent solving an issue. If that time could have been spent solving a 'my machine is down and I can't figure out why but I've tried this and this and this' it's much more worthwhile than answering the 'how do I run this here program' question.
Take it from me, support is cheaper the more of the manual you read - and the support guy hates you less.
Eh. I kinda agree. We're not all that free over here, and we have to make a lot of money to live without going into the red in our checkbooks. Every time I read slashdot I read about something else I'm not allowed to do, and I suddenly remember I don't have the money to change it. It's all the same. If I can ever afford a dvd burner I'm goint to copy my Matrix dvd and give it to a friend just to say that I broke that stupid DMCA law. I'm such a rebel.
And to whoever come up with that stupid 'you people don't do anything original so you can't understand what the authors went through to make that dvd you just ripped' had better think again. I've been a musician for 15 years, a programmer for 5, and I just wrote a pilot episode for a series that George Lucas will never make because a.) he's a selfish prick who doesn't understand that his creation is bigger and more important than he is and b.) he'd be jealous because I write better than he does.
I've been on both sides of the equation for a long time. If I were given the choice of having to force people not to make copies of my work and then not buy it, or not buy it and copy it freely, I'd rather they copied it. I'd rather they listen to/read/run/watch a pirated copy of what I made than pay cash for that crap we've been spoonfed in this country for 30 years.
Wow, that may have to be my last slashdot comment - I'd say it pretty much sums up what I've been trying to get across since I started reading it.
Take that back. I crash that W2k sucker every day at work, and I don't even mess with the registry.
No. It's too small. It's like passing a hand-size natural magnet 50 feet away from iron filings.
Sounds more like a LOTR thang... 'Well, sonny, I remember when the Nine rode around the sun..."
We've all seen all this before... see emacs vs. vi.
I prefer Linux for development. Why? The internal APIs are based upon a multi-vendor standard. Code I write there can usually be compiled on another platform without change of any kind. Can't say that for Windows. I like to write programs with OpenGL on my desktop and compile and run them on my laptop - loaded with FreeBSD. In fact, almost any GUI code I write can run on another platform, just not Windows.
In effect, apples to oranges. The only two reasons I've ever written anything on Windows are: 1. Did it for School and 2. Had to couple it to Excel.
There. That's my contribution to the argument, I hope y'all had fun suckering me out of moderating this thread.
Oh, come on. It's not like we don't already have enough conveniences to make us fat and lazy. What's wrong with getting up out of your chair to close the blinds? Jeez, this stuff may be cool to look at but it's way too much money to spend on something you don't need that didn't really warrant a /. thread. If you've got the money to protect a freakin' wine collection with a thumbprint lock, I can think of at least a thousand other uses for you!
I got asked 'What does systems analysis mean to you?' in a f*@#ing interview once, right out of school. What the hell kind of stupid question is that? The next thing I remember is this guy asking if I know how to structure a query in Access.
<rant>
I need to ask you tech interviewers something - do you guys ever research what you're hiring for before you jump in thinking you know anything? Being interviewed by someone who asks questions like these is both embarrassing and assinine, in addition to a complete waste of both the propect's and your time.
</rant>
They can get it, legally, without paying 3 months' salary. That's why it's being adopted in 3rd worlds countries all over the globe. People like to obey the laws, but if they can't, they won't. Linux gives them a way to do what they need to without 'stealing' anything.
Maybe when this goes into wide adoption people will wake up and turn off the tube for a little while. Maybe they'll read - *gasp* - books.
Nah.
I haven't read Firefly, but do you suppose that P.A. was trying to make you feel the way you do? It doesn't sound like these are things he wrote just for the joy of writing them - perhaps he was trying to shake you (the reader) up some?
There has been a post or two here who seem to have forgotten that first paragraph of the Bill of Rights. Even if pr0n is a protected form of speech, I *HIGHLY* doubt this is intended that way.
Moderators: Why is this only modded +2?