I bought Torque back when it came out (it was called the V12 engine back then). I've gotten sidetracked with other things (my real job and a side business) so I haven't been able to give it enough attention to be able to produce anything with it, but I hope to get back to it soon.
The article/press release states that they have 10,000 people in their community but it doesn't say whether these people all bought licenses. Anyone can visit the site and sign up for free, giving them forum access (except to the SDK forums). I have no doubt they've sold thousands of licenses to the Torque engine, but not everyone who's a member of GarageGames has licensed it.
When you get the source you can use the preconfigured projects to build an "example" - a fully working program and some demo levels. It compiles on Linux, Windows, and Mac and for Windows at least you can use Visual C++ 6 (I think Visual C++.NET/7 also works if you tweak it a bit), CodeWarrior and now MiniGW (which is free). GarageGames for some time now has been saying thet would release a "demo" of the engine, basically the binaries of the example. They've since stated that they want to hold off until Version 1.2, but that hasn't arrived yet (current version is 1.1.2). They do have a demo of Realm Wars, a community project, which pretty much "serves" as the demo.
The reason the demo is significant is because the Torque engine, like Tribes 2, is heavily scripted. A scripting language powers all the "important" stuff, like game code, to a higher degree than say Quake 3. Having access to the scripting language (the compiler is built into the engine) means you can make more or less a completely different game touching no engine code. The downside being that unless you place in controls or distribute compiled scripts only, everyone gets access to your code.
If you buy the engine then you're paying $100 for engine code you may never touch. The demo has all the scripts neccessary to make a new game. Of course the downside is that you can't then legally charge for your game or modification, which depending on your idea may be important. Also, if the engine limits anything then you're stuck unless you bought the engine.
Still, Torque is 1000x better than free engines, cheaper than a non-GPL license for Quake 1 ($10,000 and it's an old engine) and it has lots of neat community features built in (I'd wager a bet that you'd have much more fun with it than trying to talk to Epic about Unreal - GarageGames is more used to newbies - like me).
Still, I do wonder how it is they're calling it a "success" so far. Don't get me wrong - I love the engine and I love the ethic GarageGames has, but they were thinking it was going to be six months before a game was published - here we are one year later and no games have been finished - and only 2-3 I can name off hand I know of are nearly done. I know $100 x however many they sold is a bit but as I understand it a lot of that went to the lawyers that got the funsies with the Tribes 2 licensing done. GarageGames is the place now doing the final fixes to Tribes 2, so they have that revenue coming in (which, since GG consists of former Dynamix employees, makes sense) but other than that I hope people start finishing some games soon, or else they're going to have problems staying afloat.
Still, when Tribes 2 came out, many people's hardware couldn't take it. Now the hardware has surpassed it and so now the engine looks and plays really good - the Torque technology is sound and hopefully people get to experience that soon.
Re:Yes, but why does Microsoft need a stand...
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Linuxworld Fun
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· Score: 1
If there was a Microsoft Windows expo, licenses to attend would be $499
Funny, that's not too inaccurate a statement about their developer's conferences...
...but this is the exactt opposite of how we treat other directors when they fool with their movies. Speilberg will release his extended-only version of E.T. on DVD and the only way to get the original version is to buy an $80 boxed set this October. Many people (myself included) complained, since it's entirely possible they could have done seamless branching and included both on one DVD. Whenever Lucas gets around to releasing the original Star Wars trilogy on DVD, word is he'll not only be placing the "Special Edition" cuts only on DVD but even adding actors from the new trilogy in (Jar-Jar in ANH, Amidala in ROTJ). This, in addition to not releasing the original versions of the movies (again, preferrably in a seamless branching mode) because "they don't exist to him anymore".
And yet, all the geeks who go out to buy the 4-disc set and not the 2-disc (myself included) will just be reinforcing the notion that you can "add all the shit you want, they don't want the original version" (the original cut will not be available via branching). Granted, since opening sales of the LOTR DVD outsold the previous winner, Harry Potter, they might not get to say that after all.
Actually there was a Slashdot story a while back about someone who got their C64 to work as a web server (of course I can't find the URL for the story or the server) but, though it ran slow (as in you could watch the words come down the page) it did run, even under the/. effect. The regular gang of posters were quite disappointed that they couldn't crash it.
Re:Changes the dynamic of the business
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Borrowing ROMs
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· Score: 1
I'd love to play those old games again on my TV instead of my PC!!
You can. Break out your Sega Dreamcast (or get one for $50) and fire up NesterDC, a port of Nester (a NES emu) to the Dreamcast. It takes some patience and burning skills (and of course you'll still need the ROMs) but it's amazing - the proper speed, sound, everything (assuming you can forgive the freaking huge Dreamcast controller). It saves games like Zelda to the VMU and you can fit more or less every North American game on a single CD. You can even burn it to where one particular game loads up when the CD boots up.
While you're at it, hit up DCEmulation, they've got all the info on all the other emulators for the DC (Atari 2600, SMS/GG, MAME) as well.
MS is holding patents of very important parts of.NET, such as WinForms, ADO.NET. They did not submitted all the parts of.NET to ECMA. They kept the most important parts.
If I'm not mistaken, Sun hasn't sent any of Java to the ECMA. Correct me if I'm wrong but the language itself hasn't been submitted despite many broken promises that it would be.
Java is working already. Its doing everything I need. Why should I change to.NET?
You shouldn't. Period. If what you have does what you want it to do then don't change. I'm 25 and in my first post-college job and I'm programming in COBOL on a 30 year old system. 75% of the world's business code is in COBOL. Hell, even.NET has a COBOL compiler (yeah I know it's not "real" COBOL). Only when you hit that thing Java won't let you do should you change - until then, plug away.
Java is not from the most unethical company in the history of mankind
Well neither is the.NET platform/languages, but then again I don't think Enron or Worldcom are into this business...
No, it's an ingenious way of ensuring job security. Not only are you then the only one who knows how to read the code (and therefore are indispensable) but then everyone thinks you're a genius for being able to figure it out and write it.
Of course when you retire and/or die then the company is screwed but hey, why should you care?
I have, in fact, given *more* money to Sony (as they get a cut of game sales).
yeah but its to Sony Computer Entertainment of Japan, its Sony Computer Entertainment of America who is getting mad at you. Sure, Mother Sony is still overall getting some money but SCEA is the one who wants their cut. This is in addition to the fact that, if a game has different publishers or a different developer porting it in the US (like Eidos is doing with thar Mr. Mosquito game) then those companies are pissed as well.
Really though the heart of the issue is this - one person playing one game is not a problem, hundreds of people playing hundreds of games is not a problem, but the unchecked millions who could be playing imported games becomes a problem. Sure, the regional check is easy to get around but the majority of people out there won't bother (myself included).
If something has a legal use (guns, bongs, macrovision removers) then it can usually be sold despite the illegal uses - the real reason Sony doesn't want mod chips is because of backups/piracy, but with the legit use of import games they don't have as much of a case, so they want to squash that use as well.
Go ahead and import Xenosaga, Sony won't come get you - so long as you wear your tin foil hat.
Well there are illegal things you can do to a car - tint the windows too much, make it into a limousine that's too long, hang christmas tree lights around the license plate, etc. But the difference is that these things are only illegal if you try to take the car on the road - if you keep it in the garage or drive it on private roads you're fine. Anything kept within the four walls of your home is fine (yes yes I know this doesn't make doing drugs in your living room OK but bear with me).
Let's say this guy didn't pirate 413 games, instead did in fact get convicted on the mod chip charge. Why? Well it's one thing to sell a chip to someone. It's another to run a service installing them. It's one thing to make a fake ID, its another to run a service making them for others.
if i had a mod chip, i could have burned a backup for less than 50 cents
well first off, in your case there's always the option of sending the game to the publisher to see if they can replace it (might want to call or email first) or better yet - try one of those Game Doctor CD cleaning thingies.
But although you have a legitimate use there, the fact is that most people in your situation don't think this way - they either chuck the game or buy another one. If mod chips ever come to court the illegitimate uses will outweigh the legitimate ones.
Think about this - one of the antipiracy measures used in the PSX is the black CD (reflects a different wavelength of light), the other is the region code. Why doesn't anyone release a mod chip that gets around the region code alone and not the wavelength issue? This would make sense, right? Because it wouldn't sell and no one would want it, despite all the claims of "fair use".
The key difference being that you don't modify your car so that it can then be used to break the law. Increase your horsepower? Go right ahead. Hotwire a car to steal it? Different story.
But you raise a good point - according to most interpretations of the law, when you buy something, then you own it (funny EULA's not withstanding). If you took your PS2 and destroyed it with a hammer you wouldn't be breaking the law, so opening it to tinker with the insides isn't illegal either.
yeah but what are they calling "pirated games"? Perhaps they're just imported games and this reporter doesn't know the difference. Maybe they think the "pirate" is the captain of the ship that brings it over.
I know it's only kinda sorta out of the computer industry (and headed the other way) but when GamePro announced they were going to open up their own line of game stores (primarily in shopping malls), Babbage's Etc. (Babbage's, Software, Etc., GameStop.com) stopped carrying their magazine. Of course this was a few years back and since GamePro is still/back in Babbage's and I've never heard of a GamePro store, either the stores never happened or Babbage's, Etc. backed down.
It makes a little less sense in this HP/Dell story but the idea of "don't help your competitor" is not a new one or an uncommon one.
Microsoft is not stopping support of Windows 98 only the sales of it. Eventually they will stop support of it but since they stopped support of Windows 95 I think it will be a while.
Actually Microsoft usually "stops sales" of any operating system (or any other product) as soon as a new one comes out. When they came out with Office XP they gave retailers financial incentive to send back unsold Office 2000 copies. This irks customers who expect to be able to buy old versions at cheaper prices (like what happens with cars) but since they wouldn't be lowering the price of the old versions, it makes little difference.
With Windows ME, they either kept Windows 98 SE on the shelves for a while or the retailers declined to send them back, possibly because of all the issues Windows ME had causing people to actually prefer Windows 98 SE.
But as for support - Windows 95 support ended on November 30, 2001 (oddly enough they supported MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 through December 31, 2001) and the end date for Windows 98 and NT 4.0 is June 30, 2003. It's all available here.
I'm a self-admitted Microsoft Whore but I do think this is an application (cars) best served by some sort of Linux. Then again, how many times have you had to shell out tons of money to a mechanic because "they don't make that part any more - we'll have to send off for it..."
There is also a 3d game construction set available from a small company, saw it in a gaming magazine- I ordered it and it seemed okay, but was more than I wanted to commit to at the time:)
I believe what you're referring to is the Game Creation System from Pie in the Sky software. To their credit, they've upgraded it over the years, but it's still a pretty crappy little system/game engine that's always been years behind whatever curve there is in graphics. As a result, while the gimmick is supposedly that you can make a game to sell with it, pretty much no one ever does. Even the Christian games that get made with it never sell for money. The one game I've seen using it that actually looked interesting was Pencil Whipped , which used all pencil-drawn graphics to good effects. Still, it was hindered by the engine's quirks if not its abilities. They would have been better off using NPR Quake.
As for the mod issue, the one thing that mods of course don't afford you is the ability to send your mod as a standalone application to someone else - they have to own Morrowind or Quake or whatever. This GCS gets around that - the catch being all the bad stuff (lack of graphics, etc.) it brings with it, which wouldn't be bad were it not for the $70 price tag. An alternative is the Torque engine by GarageGames. I've got it - it's damn good. Not only does it have what most systems lack (online play, top of the line graphics, multiplatform) but the price is right - for $100 you can make what you want with it and give it to whomever you want. If you want to sell what you make its a different affair (games have to be sold through the GG.com site) but for free games you can do what you want with it. GCS lets you sell it however you like - provided you can get someone to pay for it.
Also, the Visor's OS couldn't be upgraded. At all. I've still got one of the original Visor units on me right now and I'm still running PalmOS 3.1.
If they had Flash ROM in the Visor and the OS could be upgraded then a good chunk of the people would screw it up - the Visor is not a venerable machine. If people screw it up then they will call in and then Visor is on the phone forever with the average end user talking them through flashing the ROM, upgrading the OS, rolling back to the previous version or - worst case scenario - being liable for the data they lose. Handspring doesn't want this so they don't make the ROM flashable and they end it right there. The amount of money they save in potential support gets passed to the consumer.
Plus the Visor was something of a "first step" system - most people want to upgrade to a new hardware unit eventually.
Have people not played Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight II???? These are easily two of the best games ever made, and they just ooze that great Star Wars feeling.
I agree that these are both damn fine Star Wars game, but you can't fly an X-Wing or Tie Fighter, you can't control an AT-AT (without cheating anyway) and of course there's no pod racing to be found.
Star Wars has a lot of facets and no game captures them all. Not sure if this one will but I think the last one to try was Shadows of the Empire and we all know how effective that was. This is why most Star Wars game focus on one thing (light sabers, dogfighting, racing, planning Gungan cities) and also why there are so many of them.
Just be glad LucasArts isn't afraid to outsource development anymore.
Well if anyone out there has fooled around with VisualStudio.NET and its GridLayout mode then on a web server with the.NET extensions loaded (yeah yeah I know it's a Windows-only technology thus far) when the.aspx page is loaded the proper page is given to the client based on what browser they're using. Whatever trick you want is passed over as whatever the client will understand, be it VBScript, JavaScript or simple HTML links - whataver works. Whatever graphic layout you specify will come across as the correct DHTML specification based on the browser.
I took a DHTML page I made in Visual InterDev that would simply not work in non-IE browsers and re-did it in VisualStudio.NET - it worked 100% perfect in all browsers (well, except Konqueror). Sure, not everything works or looks 100% right (some tricks I tried didn't have as good results but they did the job) but for all the fuss that Microsoft is trying to shut out non-IE users,.NET sure does seem to be doing a lot to try and keep all the browsers happy.
# is the musical notation for a 'sharp', meaning 'one semitone higher'
I got that it was "C-Sharp" (and even if I didn't the.cs extension would have been a clue) but I didn't think about the musical note connotation. I always thought about the slang term sharp as in "smart" ("gee you sure are sharp") so I figured they were trying to say C# was a "smarter" version of C/C++. Of course, I guess it works either way for the MS marketing department. Else, it could backfire: "C# is sharp...as a marble"
On the contrary, that is one of the few times that my TV is deliberately on, outside of construction/repair programs on Discovery/TLC, and Law and Order.
If you're careful enough, you can watch Law & Order (one of the three) 24 hours a day. Hell you can Tivo your own L&O channel.
I wouldn't do it but not neccessarily for the obvious reasons. I'd be afraid there was some sort of "catch" to it (like when those timeshare people offer you a free trip) or that it really was someone I knew (like my Wife or someone) or that they were going to kill my cat through some technicality, or that I'd have those Macbeth "Out Out Damned Spot!" dreams the rest of my life, or that some "You kill my father prepare to DIE!" guy would come seek me out.
Besides, how would you report the source of income on your tax return?
If they lied to you (Linux & Mac people) then they lied to 5% of the market. That's it. Sure, there's yet to be a game released with all three in the box or with all three ports separately at launch so we don't know how a title under those conditions would sell but based solely on previous market performance (Quake 3 is usually the standard since it was the closest, most recent example) they decided to cater to 95% of the market and leave the hardcore niches for later. Sorry, but if you put all the Slashdot Linux Zealouts together (even the non-gamer ones) you wouldn't have more than 1-2% of the market. The numbers simply aren't there.
The only way around this is to do like many here have said, buy the game when the Linux client binaries come out (and not before), check "Linux" on the registration card, and hope for the best. There's nothing else you can do, and publishers run on dollar figures alone, period.
Slashdot Mirror
The article/press release states that they have 10,000 people in their community but it doesn't say whether these people all bought licenses. Anyone can visit the site and sign up for free, giving them forum access (except to the SDK forums). I have no doubt they've sold thousands of licenses to the Torque engine, but not everyone who's a member of GarageGames has licensed it.
When you get the source you can use the preconfigured projects to build an "example" - a fully working program and some demo levels. It compiles on Linux, Windows, and Mac and for Windows at least you can use Visual C++ 6 (I think Visual C++ .NET/7 also works if you tweak it a bit), CodeWarrior and now MiniGW (which is free). GarageGames for some time now has been saying thet would release a "demo" of the engine, basically the binaries of the example. They've since stated that they want to hold off until Version 1.2, but that hasn't arrived yet (current version is 1.1.2). They do have a demo of Realm Wars, a community project, which pretty much "serves" as the demo.
The reason the demo is significant is because the Torque engine, like Tribes 2, is heavily scripted. A scripting language powers all the "important" stuff, like game code, to a higher degree than say Quake 3. Having access to the scripting language (the compiler is built into the engine) means you can make more or less a completely different game touching no engine code. The downside being that unless you place in controls or distribute compiled scripts only, everyone gets access to your code.
If you buy the engine then you're paying $100 for engine code you may never touch. The demo has all the scripts neccessary to make a new game. Of course the downside is that you can't then legally charge for your game or modification, which depending on your idea may be important. Also, if the engine limits anything then you're stuck unless you bought the engine.
Still, Torque is 1000x better than free engines, cheaper than a non-GPL license for Quake 1 ($10,000 and it's an old engine) and it has lots of neat community features built in (I'd wager a bet that you'd have much more fun with it than trying to talk to Epic about Unreal - GarageGames is more used to newbies - like me).
Still, I do wonder how it is they're calling it a "success" so far. Don't get me wrong - I love the engine and I love the ethic GarageGames has, but they were thinking it was going to be six months before a game was published - here we are one year later and no games have been finished - and only 2-3 I can name off hand I know of are nearly done. I know $100 x however many they sold is a bit but as I understand it a lot of that went to the lawyers that got the funsies with the Tribes 2 licensing done. GarageGames is the place now doing the final fixes to Tribes 2, so they have that revenue coming in (which, since GG consists of former Dynamix employees, makes sense) but other than that I hope people start finishing some games soon, or else they're going to have problems staying afloat.
Still, when Tribes 2 came out, many people's hardware couldn't take it. Now the hardware has surpassed it and so now the engine looks and plays really good - the Torque technology is sound and hopefully people get to experience that soon.
And yet, all the geeks who go out to buy the 4-disc set and not the 2-disc (myself included) will just be reinforcing the notion that you can "add all the shit you want, they don't want the original version" (the original cut will not be available via branching). Granted, since opening sales of the LOTR DVD outsold the previous winner, Harry Potter, they might not get to say that after all.
...open the lid.
Actually there was a Slashdot story a while back about someone who got their C64 to work as a web server (of course I can't find the URL for the story or the server) but, though it ran slow (as in you could watch the words come down the page) it did run, even under the /. effect. The regular gang of posters were quite disappointed that they couldn't crash it.
While you're at it, hit up DCEmulation, they've got all the info on all the other emulators for the DC (Atari 2600, SMS/GG, MAME) as well.
Texas A&M is using it for their "pay your bills over the Internet" site. Works like a charm...
Of course when you retire and/or die then the company is screwed but hey, why should you care?
Really though the heart of the issue is this - one person playing one game is not a problem, hundreds of people playing hundreds of games is not a problem, but the unchecked millions who could be playing imported games becomes a problem. Sure, the regional check is easy to get around but the majority of people out there won't bother (myself included).
If something has a legal use (guns, bongs, macrovision removers) then it can usually be sold despite the illegal uses - the real reason Sony doesn't want mod chips is because of backups/piracy, but with the legit use of import games they don't have as much of a case, so they want to squash that use as well.
Go ahead and import Xenosaga, Sony won't come get you - so long as you wear your tin foil hat.
Let's say this guy didn't pirate 413 games, instead did in fact get convicted on the mod chip charge. Why? Well it's one thing to sell a chip to someone. It's another to run a service installing them. It's one thing to make a fake ID, its another to run a service making them for others.
But although you have a legitimate use there, the fact is that most people in your situation don't think this way - they either chuck the game or buy another one. If mod chips ever come to court the illegitimate uses will outweigh the legitimate ones.
Think about this - one of the antipiracy measures used in the PSX is the black CD (reflects a different wavelength of light), the other is the region code. Why doesn't anyone release a mod chip that gets around the region code alone and not the wavelength issue? This would make sense, right? Because it wouldn't sell and no one would want it, despite all the claims of "fair use".
But you raise a good point - according to most interpretations of the law, when you buy something, then you own it (funny EULA's not withstanding). If you took your PS2 and destroyed it with a hammer you wouldn't be breaking the law, so opening it to tinker with the insides isn't illegal either.
yeah but what are they calling "pirated games"? Perhaps they're just imported games and this reporter doesn't know the difference. Maybe they think the "pirate" is the captain of the ship that brings it over.
It makes a little less sense in this HP/Dell story but the idea of "don't help your competitor" is not a new one or an uncommon one.
With Windows ME, they either kept Windows 98 SE on the shelves for a while or the retailers declined to send them back, possibly because of all the issues Windows ME had causing people to actually prefer Windows 98 SE.
But as for support - Windows 95 support ended on November 30, 2001 (oddly enough they supported MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 through December 31, 2001) and the end date for Windows 98 and NT 4.0 is June 30, 2003. It's all available here.
I'm a self-admitted Microsoft Whore but I do think this is an application (cars) best served by some sort of Linux. Then again, how many times have you had to shell out tons of money to a mechanic because "they don't make that part any more - we'll have to send off for it..."
As for the mod issue, the one thing that mods of course don't afford you is the ability to send your mod as a standalone application to someone else - they have to own Morrowind or Quake or whatever. This GCS gets around that - the catch being all the bad stuff (lack of graphics, etc.) it brings with it, which wouldn't be bad were it not for the $70 price tag. An alternative is the Torque engine by GarageGames. I've got it - it's damn good. Not only does it have what most systems lack (online play, top of the line graphics, multiplatform) but the price is right - for $100 you can make what you want with it and give it to whomever you want. If you want to sell what you make its a different affair (games have to be sold through the GG.com site) but for free games you can do what you want with it. GCS lets you sell it however you like - provided you can get someone to pay for it.
If they had Flash ROM in the Visor and the OS could be upgraded then a good chunk of the people would screw it up - the Visor is not a venerable machine. If people screw it up then they will call in and then Visor is on the phone forever with the average end user talking them through flashing the ROM, upgrading the OS, rolling back to the previous version or - worst case scenario - being liable for the data they lose. Handspring doesn't want this so they don't make the ROM flashable and they end it right there. The amount of money they save in potential support gets passed to the consumer.
Plus the Visor was something of a "first step" system - most people want to upgrade to a new hardware unit eventually.
Star Wars has a lot of facets and no game captures them all. Not sure if this one will but I think the last one to try was Shadows of the Empire and we all know how effective that was. This is why most Star Wars game focus on one thing (light sabers, dogfighting, racing, planning Gungan cities) and also why there are so many of them.
Just be glad LucasArts isn't afraid to outsource development anymore.
I took a DHTML page I made in Visual InterDev that would simply not work in non-IE browsers and re-did it in VisualStudio.NET - it worked 100% perfect in all browsers (well, except Konqueror). Sure, not everything works or looks 100% right (some tricks I tried didn't have as good results but they did the job) but for all the fuss that Microsoft is trying to shut out non-IE users, .NET sure does seem to be doing a lot to try and keep all the browsers happy.
Besides, how would you report the source of income on your tax return?
The only way around this is to do like many here have said, buy the game when the Linux client binaries come out (and not before), check "Linux" on the registration card, and hope for the best. There's nothing else you can do, and publishers run on dollar figures alone, period.