Slashdot Mirror
HP: Rival Printers Mean No More HPs Through Dell
blamanj writes: "Dell Computer seems to have pissed off HP, with their intent to sell their own printers. HP will apparently stop supplying printers to Dell, even though the new Dell products are not yet shipping."
You were a great company once.
Dude, yer goin' to hell!
Everyone knows they make the momey from the cartrages, not the actual units. Kind of like the game console sales model.
In a truely competitive market, a company gets nowhere by not selling their product to someone else. If I were an HP stock holder, I'd be pissed.
Burn Hollywood Burn
I hate this sort of thing. Corporations refusing to sell their products as an anti-competitive tactic. It's a textbook microsoft move.
I'm wondering, how common is this outside of the computer industry?
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Poor HP is pouting, now.
You're only giving a long-term leg-up to your competition by allowing them to smoothly and easily transition to their own product line by continuing to sell them yours. You're giving up a short-term gain for a bit of long-term hurt. Exactly what I would have done.
This whole 'coopetition' thing is just like Microsoft tries to get competitors to do. "Let us use your product and embrace it until we're ready to demolish it."
I'm gonna take my toys and go home.
Dell really should go ahead with their own line of printers. They're obviously the best in the computer market, and they can be awesome with printers, too.
We're Doomed
I thought the money was in printer cartridges not the actual printers themselves. Besides, to make money Dell would need to sell their products at retail locations which are already covered pretty well with HPs. They wouldn't be able to make enough money just selling to their own customers.
Even if I was buying a Dell computer, why would I care? What advantage is there to buying a printer from the same place you order your computer from? Has Dell been selling HP printers less than what I could buy from any other mail order outlet? Less than what I could buy the same HP printer from Fry's (or wherever)?
FP
That is because with HP's purchase of Compaq, they are in direct competition with Dell with the PC. Now I wonder who will be next. HP is just shooting itslef on this one. Do they really want Dell to get pissed at them and start making inkjet printers with cheaper ink?
1. U2 - One
2. Van Halen - Hot for Teacher
3. Derek and the Dominoes - Layla
4. Jethro Tull - Locomotive Breath
5. Everlast - What It's Like
Now why in the hell would someone ask this question???
HP doesn't have to sell to printers to Dell if they don't want to. The anti-competitve argument is invalid.
I don't think HP legally can do it under antimonopoly laws: you can't sell your goods only to selected companies - you MUST sell it to everyone who will pay listed price.
Ever since Carly arrived she has been more interested in pushing her "image" instead of doing what's right for the company. She's running HP into the ground, and she's going to make a bazillion $ doing it, while killing the jobs of a bazillion employees.
My next printer is an Epson.
BC
Dude, you're not getting an HP.
R.I.P.
I really hope they have Lexmark make their printers. IMHO, their quality is unsurpassed.
We're Doomed
Oh right! Dell's going to make printers. That makes as much sense as HP making computers.
wait a second....
Best Windows Freeware
HP must have be confident that they can do well with their own sales.
Carleton S. (Carly) Fiorina is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Hewlett-Packard. Click the link to tell her what you think.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
With the (somewhat) recent prosecution of Microsoft, I read up (somewhat) on Anti-trust laws, and this seems to be text book. "Hewlett-Packard Co. , the No. 1 printer and personal computer maker" stops selling printers to Dell because of a completely unrelated business venture (Dell making printers), in hopes to keep their 'monopoly' on printers. Could someone explain how this isn't antitrust?
I'm not.
Since when have these companies really cared about their customers, rather than their egos?
Sorry to be so cynical, but this is just all too common and pathetic.
-----rhad
Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
And in other news, Microsoft refuses to sell Windows to Dell as long as they are selling computers with Linux pre-loaded.
HP, uncreative as always, goodbye!
Dell sells an incredible number of PCs.
People that buy a Dell would probably continue to
buy HP printers because its a known quantity.
Until people stop buying HP printers from dell it
would be wise for HP to continue selling their printers
through Dell.
Carly Bitch-Slaps Michael, film at 11.
This seems actually to be a very good prisoner's dilemma-style situation. And in this case, they both chose to screw each other. If you are familiar with prisoner's dilemma, you know that this is the worst possible option.
I think this is very bizarre... especially since it's really Dell that has the advantage since they possess the customer relationships (the most valuable asset). It seems that it would have been better for HP to hold off a bit and use the time to transition Dell's customers away from HP.
HP printers are gold. Who doesn't have one? Dell's printers would have been low-end cheap hassles and Dell would have had no motivation to keep them around without investing heavily into them.
Now HP is forcing to make Dell into a real printer competitor. Like HP needs more competition. Sheesh. Dell will now invest time and money into building a business to burn HP. That effort won't cripple Dell's core business which is stomping HP.
this is a test of an anonymous proxy
I know everyone is saying this is a bad move for HP and it very well may be but I think I see what they are doing. If Dell intends to produce their own printers why would they continue to purchase HP priinters in the future when it obviously will end up being far cheaper for them to manufactor and package their own. HP is trying to cut them off before they can do this and hurt them in computer sales when they won't be able to package anymore HP printers while going on with this. One of two things will happen, either Dell will get suckered into a big fat increase on HP printers or they will have to go with another manufactor. Either way its not that bad for HP because they can focus on supplying other vendors, theirselves included or they will get some additional revenue while hurting Dell. Business as usual.
The article states that printers are sold at a loss and that most consumers prefer to buy their ink cartridges at local retail stores (the profit maker). Because HP has presence in the retail arena this makes sense. However, Dell must believe that customers are willing to purchase supplies online for Dell branded printers, even knowing that most consumers prefer to do retail.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't buy ink cartridges until I need them and when I do I run down to the store and pick one up because they are so freaking expensive. Unless you are monitoring your ink, you can't predict when you will need to order another one online and wait 3-5 days to get it.
As for HP cutting off sales to Dell? Seems par for the course for a company that hasn't made very many good decisions lately.
Found in comp.lang.lisp
--
I can find Ivory for MAC or mac with this board if this available and all
document connect with this my system is expired and crash into
fire....grr...
--
Hilarious.
Epson also is pretty good. And it has good software to go along with it, too. I use a Lexmark Z31 and an Epson C60 and they both work great.
We're Doomed
Living in the Bay Area, I find the main trouble I see is that any attack on Fiorina's ideas or methods is immediately interpreted in some quarters as an attack against women in important roles (like CEO). Granted, some people do make things a gender issue ("that stupid bitch", etc), but it's frustrating to be grouped in with them when you try to make reasonable points. It's gotten to the point where I group her with politics and religion as things to avoid in friendly conversation.
No matter, though; I've sold my HP stock and I don't work there, so maybe my company will see a rise in business while HP starts to toss theirs. Still, it's always sad to see a company sunk by its PHBs.
PS: I think renaming the Compaq Center the "HP Pavillion" is probably the tackiest thing I've every heard. Fortunately, for the locals who care it'll always be the Shark Tank.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
>>Dell spokesman Mike Maher said his company would still sell HP branded printers that it purchases through distributors, but expressed dismay at HP's decision. "Frankly we're surprised that a company would make it harder for customers to get their hands on their products," he said.
No, it's not harder to get an HP printer, I can go to any of 1000 stores near me and pick one up quite easily, as can any number of new-computer buying people.
Dell is trying to muscle into HP's area, and this is how HP is responding. I'm not surprised at all...
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Dell would have done this anyway, but HP just helped it along...
It reminds me of my local grocery store - Kroger. They, from my perspective, seem to be slowly pushing name brand products off their shelves and replacing them with Kroger brand products.
Same thing - except Kellogg's didn't pull their Apple Jacks when Kroger introduced their cheaper knockoff version.
What percentage of HP printers are sold through Dell?
What are the margins on the printers HP sells through Dell?
Does HP have enough capacity to cover all the markets they have gotten themselves into? (Note to geeks: posting 'HP is real big, they can make shitloads of printers!' is not good enough)
How susceptible is Dell to being strongarmed by HP? (ie-will this move help get HP better margins by forcing Dell to rethink the benefits they get from selling HP printers)
How much responsibility does HP bear in supplying these printers and is this a tactic to get the deal reworked?
See, you people don't know shit. In your little world all a company has to do is sell as much of a product as possible. It ain't that fucking simple and a normal person would have learned that when they saw all the geek startup businesses get chewed up by the market. You people are the height of ignorance. You are more dense than any of Pavlov's dogs.
reason HP is pulling printers from Dell is because that
lovable scamp, the "Dell Guy", reportedly grabbed Carly's
ass at a recent "goodwill" meeting.
Carly was overheard to say "He'll never get his hands
on my toner again!". The Dell Guy responded with "Dude,
what a rude BITCH!"
Can someone without an actual job please find this link?
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
When are you libertarian types going to figure out the biggest threat to your freedom is not the government, but corporations?
Ok, HP stock is at $11.58 from $25 a year ago. You would think they would take every sell they could make.
The dell kid must die. He is the most god damned annoying pitchman since billy mays.
Most people buying computers these days don't give a damn whether their printer is an HP, Lexmark, Generic, etc. All they want is to be able to print out their book reports and greeting cards. So, looking at the printer business, we see that since HP sells its printers at a loss for the intention of making up the price in the sale of cartridges, then I commend them for what they did. The article points out that Dell sales amounted to about 2 days worth of HP's annual sales. What have they got to lose?
If I was a shareholder, I would be fine with that they did. Why compete against Dell's own printers when the publiic doesn't care for brand, all the care for is price?
The dell kid must die. His death must be slow, humiliating, and most of all painfull. This is deserved for his crimes against humanity, mass annoyance. Any suggestions?
Looks like one bad decision after the next. First that moronic Compaq-HP merger and then this.
Makes sense to me.
Why would Dell want to be dependent on Compaq for its printers?
Why would Compaq want to assist Dell's sales of computer systems by selling them printers.
I expect Compaq-HP would have cut Dell off eventually, or ramped up the printer prices to put them at a competitive disadvantage to Compaq's line and sucked out their market share in the PC business. (If nothing else, continuing the relationship would bring up anti-trust issues eventually.)
So Dell started cutting the apron strings, and Compaq used this as an excuse to do as much damage to them as possible in one hit.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
They might be King of the Computer market but they don't make the best computers, at least not when we're not talking about your normal mom and pop AOL/MSN user.
I make my own computers. It's cheaper and higher quality.
But I do concede...I won't be making my own printers. Yet, I won't be buying a Dell printer either, dude.
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
Clicky, Clicky.
It's (potentially) better than that (for printer buyers and users)..
1. Dell detects that HP/Canon/Epson are keeping margins artificially high on printers. Dell does a gut check to see if they can undercut the BigBoyz in the marketplace. Dell decides they can.
2. HP sees a new competitor with money, knowledge and resources in the PC arena, decides that rather than allow Dell to transition smoothly to offering their Dell-branded printers, "We can offer you a Dell brand printer 25% cheaper than the comparable HP and give you free extended support.", HP decides to deprive Dell of some printer customers.
3. Dell now has to scramble to get their printers to market, maybe they make some "entry mistakes" maybe they don't (i'd bet don't), regardless, now Dell has to explain WHY they can't offer the customer (most esp CORPORATE buyers who have been told EXACTLY what model HP printer to buy) the world's best-selling printers.
4. HP now goes DIRECTLY to the big Dell corporate accoutants and attempts to undercut Dell's nascent printer biz, the most common technique will be reduced prices.
5. Dell responds with further price drops across their new printer line to gain and retain sales.
Should it actually work that way, that just the "Capitialism Classic" approach to business.
The Egyptians did it 4000 years ago.
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
This would be an interesting story purely from a business perspective, but the fact that it's about printers gives it a different spin.
Printer profits also depend on sales of ink, since the printers themselves are often sold at a loss [...]
The lack of true competition specifically in the inkjet / bubblejet market is sickening - there is hardly any other market where producers can get away with the shameless margins seen here. Basically you're paying $50 for a $5 piece of hobbled (i.e., you can't refil it) equipment, over and over again. I would prefer to pay a market price for a printer, if I got to pay a fair price for the cartridges later on. Hopefully a additional big player will even things out a bit.
yes, we have no bananas
I hope Dell's computer quality transfers over to their printers, they'd beat HP down, and I like HP printers, that's the only thing from HP I'd EVER buy.
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
I hate you, Michael Dell, and I want to kick your smelly Texan ass.
Playing devil's advocate here...
Dell is getting into the printer market now with no reputation in that market. While they have a substantial share of the PC market, are any other PC manufacturers going to be willing to purchase/sell Dell printers? Which of their competitors will be willing to sell a printer with Dell's name on it?
HP/Compaq on the other hand, while it has its hand in the PC market, is not really viewed (at least by me) as a PC company. This move MAY encourage other PC manufacturers to go with HP (widely viewed as the superior printer) as a strategy to better compete with Dell.
I believe a similar situation existed in the fast food market a few years ago when Pepsi owned Taco Bell, KFC, and Pizza Hut. Those restaurants ALL sold Pepsi products. Since they were under the same umbrella, lots of other fast food chains were selling Coca Cola products because selling Pepsi was in essence giving money to their competitor. Pepsi eventually spun these restaurants off into a seperate company so that they could have a chance at sales in the competing restaurants.
Not saying I'm right, but it is a point to consider...
"He hated Mexicans, and he was half Mexican. AND he hated irony!"
There is no reason why HP should make it easy for Dell to transition into making their own printers by temporarily supplying Dell with printers until Dell can get their operations going. As long as Dell was featuring HP printers the relationship worked. Now that it's clear Dell is merely using HP until they can get their operations going, there's no reason for HP to play along. You can't blame HP for doing what little they can to try to frustrate Dell's attempts to compete against one of HP's core product lines. If you don't understand this, then you're probably a bit confused about why the company you work for is constantly losing money, it's stock price is in the crapper, your stock options are worthless, and oh, by the way, you're being laid-off.
I'd think this would HELP HP sales...
Example: a consumer goes grocery shopping and wants to get some tortilla chips to make some nachos. They see two kinds:
Tostitos - the name brand
and
Stop and Shop (or A&P - whatever) store brand tortilla chips
I'd guess that (assuming Tostitos' popularity via advertisement, etc.) that the consumer might be more inclined to lean towards the brand name.
Now take that to Dell. User goes to buy a computer, doesn't know printers that well, but has heard of HP being a solid brand of printers. Sees the Dell brand as a "cheesy rip off store brand" and buys the HP...
P.S. I have nothing against store brand tortilla chips. ;^)
This older article at CNet has a quote from HP saying "Dell's business represented an 'insignificant' portion of HP's total printing and imaging business, equal to only a few days' sales per year." For all of the posts saying HP is shooting itself in the foot, or are making a bad decision, ask yourself, what would you do if one of your partners, who sells your products, decided to make their own version of your product and sell that too? HP is making most of their money in the printing industry elsewhere, so why not drop Dell?
You must not say the name of he who is most wickedly annoying! that name burns my ears!
I remember reading or hearing, not to long ago, that the FTC was beginning some investigations into the practice of those Expiring Gift Cards and Power Cards or whatever they happen to be called. Some people are calling for them to be regulated, similar to Escrow accounts, which is basically what they are.
You put your money, into a non-interest bearing account for future use. Escrow accounts that are called such, simply do not expire. At least, I haven't heard of any that expire...
One more thing, if you will eventually be running out of ink, you would end up using that second ink cartridge. So, you aren't buying something that will be wasted. Buying something that would be wasted would be if Dell forced you to buy an ink cartridge for a different printer and disallowed you from returning that ink cartridge. Unless you intended to buy that other printer... You would be buying something that you would never use.
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
dell / fundamentalist merger
..that its just gonna be rebranded Epsons or Lexmarks with custom ink cartridges that you can only get from.. wait for it.. Dell?
HP: Hi, Dell?
Dell: Yes?
HP: This is HP. We're tired of receiving revenue from the printers you sell for us.
Dell: I see.
HP: We're going to stop selling printers through you.
Dell: Well have fun.
I'm not sure what the market share is for all printers for corps. vs. personal use, but this might be more of an act of retaliation than an actual way to cut losses.
--What, you ain't know about them country fried sessions?
With the merger a done deal, HP is reorganizing their divisions, setting new strategies. They probably want to compete more fully with Dell head-to-head in the e-commerce space, and they can't do that if Dell is selling their products.
HP has an established brand of printers, well known, well liked. Dell's printer division is going to have to spend big bucks to get there. Better for HP to yank their printers now and use it as a competitive advantage to sell their own systems, and let Dell fumble around.
ASSHOLE
HP's printers may be okay (though definitely not the industry's best), but their customer service and many of their products (especially peripherals like CD burners) are so horrendously bad, that my company has also banned all HP products. And by the recent acquisition, we have also cancelled our Compaq contracts as well and are in the process of looking for replacements for our Compaq PC's.
I also had the experience of spending probably a month (plus lots of my own money on their non-toll-free support line) trying to get a CD burner of theirs to work (this was a few years ago) and eventually I was told that they couldn't guarantee it would be compatable with my system since my system was self-built! Huh? I was so mad I literally cracked the phone when I slammed it down. Fortunately Best Buy let me return the product past the 15 day return limit (though only for credit) because the person I spoke to said that they have seen this type of thing with HP peripherals before, too many times to count.
Keep up the good work, HP. Would the last one at HP please turn off the light.
We note you continue to be an A/C. This is good policy for someone who is attacking masses of /. readers for not knowing the details of a contract between HP and Dell. At the same time, it shows your ignorance of the readership by lumping all readers into your personally defined 'geeks who know nothing about bussiness' catagory.
....
It'd be interesting to know the answers in your post; margins and so on. However, its not terribly important.
Many of the people who specify equipment purchasing decisions will remember the emotional reaction that they had with vendor X the next time they purchase items which vendor X produces. Its normal for persons who have had a bad experience with a product to not buy it again. Unless, somehow, the difficulties produced lots of income for them in the end.
YMMV, IMHO, etc
United States > TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 13. (e)
It shall be unlawful for any person to discriminate in favor of one purchaser against another purchaser or purchasers of a commodity bought for resale, with or without processing, by contracting to furnish or furnishing, or by contributing to the furnishing of, any services or facilities connected with the processing, handling, sale, or offering for sale of such commodity so purchased upon terms not accorded to all purchasers on proportionally equal terms.
Read the ADA!
Need I say more?
Why was the parent modded as Funny?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
As for HP's decision, I can think of lots of reasons for HP to do this:
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Fuckus.
I have it from a well-placed source in Dell that Lexmark is going to be making the printers that Dell is going to rebrand.
Since I buy all of my x86 servers from Dell and am familiar with their support structure, as are my desktop people, this may be an attractive alternative to HP if the printers are decent. I personally have little experience with Lexmark, tho they do have some nice looking management tools. With Dell's backing I'd be willing to give them a chance. Dell has always given me excellent support. Such as recently offering to take back the Itanium servers that were bought by a group at work and give a full refund due to Itanium being the huge dud that it was.
We recently replaced several of our HP 5si's with HP9000's, and boy are they pieces of shit! We've had nothing but problems with them. And they just feel flimsy as hell when you open them up and futz around with their guts. Guess HP's been doing too much corner-cutting. I regret that we got rid of the 5si's as they are solid printers.
Good summation, about the only thing you left out was the implicit threat to other HP customers.
"Don't think that you're so big we won't drop you like a rock."
Apparently HP thinks this is enough of a problem to react harshly now at the first signs of trouble to possibly head off bigger trouble down the road.
=tkk
Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
I have gone through one DeskJet 500 and one LaserJet 5L at home. Both printers ended up having paper feed issues and are now almost worthless (I still get to occasionally print stuff on the LJ5L. The DeskJet is in a landfill somewhere in Virginia). HP will do nothing about it.
At work, we have four or five HP laser printers. At least two of them are starting to have paper feed problems. These aren't squat little home printers like the ones I mentioned above: they're the big mamajammas costing a thou or two. Again, HP doesn't seem to want to do much of anything about it.
HP knows about their paper feed issues, by the way. Their basic response: "Sucks being you, huh?"
I'll never get another HP printer. Ever. I recommend others skipping over HPs as well. They used to make good printers, but in the past 5 or so years they've gone down the toilet.
If you buy a printer at Dell, you're most likely going to save vs. a retail store, but you save nothing by getting a printer w/ a computer unless you buy during one of their specials (like, buy a computer and get 10% off all peripherals). Oddly enough, you pay ~1 dollar less for buying one seperately. Yet they're specials are just revolving doors so if it's not a printer you save a bit on, next week it's shipping or a CD-R upgrade etc. But they don't regularly mark down the prices on printers simply because you might be buying a PC.
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
So many women claimed that they should get their share, that some idiot was just picked to get that share.
Seriously, it's not a 'man's world' out there, it's a 'financial mind's world'. Male or female, it is the same concept. You stick a moron in a place of power, you get dissapointed. Go figure.
The CEO of HP is not the first time this has happened...
I am a science fantasy fan
The really bad thing (for HP stockholders) is that the sheer volume (that is growing) of Dell transactions will now have absolutely ZERO chance of helping HP. Think of the average consumer. Are they going to give up buying a complete Dell system in order to simply get their HP? (not many, and again apply the cost to recognition/feature/quality/consumer comfort equation) HP is most likely gambling that Dell will cut some deal. HP is probably hoping that Dell customers will demand HP's. However how logical is it to stomp your feet and run out of the room when you could at least make a bit. Some is better than none, and with Dell's throughput that 'some' is rather substantial.
Lets face it, unless there is some grand scheme that is being cooked up by HP, this is a very foolish and childish decision. HP is already being given the evil eye by many corporations looking for service and long term commitment. (ok, not the EVIL eye, but a very wary eye) This will not help. The idea is to make it as painless as possible for the consumer. What Dell advertises is "Choice at a cheap price with eaze of choosing" Whether they deliver on that or not is not the issue (they don't in my opinion) but HP now just complicated that and will see that Dell will now shine even more while HP looses revenue and potential growth.
_THAT_ is why I am so tired of seeing crying little babies put in as execs and decision makers. They are nothing but school yard kids, yet they hold many people's retirement funds and pensions in their stupid incompetent hands.
How unbelievably uninteresting
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
HP doesn't really need Dell. They can do better than that. Their printers are good, and I don't doubt that they will drive Dell out of the printer market. If Dell wants to make printers, they should start training and hiring good tech support people on the first place. Last time I called, it took me about 50 minutes of being on hold to get an answer "Yeah, it seems like you have a problem...". If they can't assemble and provide good tech support for their computers, I have no idea what they're going to do with designing and manufacturing their own printers. Thanks
By telling the world that PA-RISC was going to be phased out, HP killed any chance of growth in the high-end business. No customer with any sense would believe that a transition from PA-RISC to Itanium would not be a monumental upheaval. And if a painful transition was a certainty, why not bite the bullet and go with either Sun or IBM? The decision could not have come at a worse time with the last boom for a while in business computing just about to start.
With growth flat in what should have been a boom time, HP desperately entered the lower margin consumer PC business in order to generate more cash flow, any kind of cash flow. Unfortunately HP entered the business just as it was about to crash in turn. What was supposed to at least generate some revenue now has the prospect of unending losses.
Anyone can see that the sensible approach for HP would be to save the last of the company's crown jewels, the printer business, by simply exiting the consumer and small business PC markets, both HP and Compaq brands. This would have eliminated competing head-to-head with Dell and probably avoided provoking Dell into trying to offer Dell's own brand of printers. The only problem would have been figuring out what was left for the company to do in the computing industry. Where can HP generate profit if on the high-end the product line is dependent on the Itanium processor, especially if Intel is now selling to anyone not just the processor but also the guts of entire systems? What exactly does HP own that is unique in the computing industry? Where's the beef?
Perhaps the decline was inevitable once HP ceased to be a company of engineers who got things done. The company had reached the limits of organization. To have preserved the "HP Way" the company by the 1980s would have had to have morphed into a high-tech holding company whose "business" would have been using connections to Stanford and Berkeley to finance upstarts such as Steven Wozniak.
You might, but you're a geek, so emotional reactions and various other nebulous things tend to drive you.
What most people will remember is the commercial they saw on TV. That and maybe the fact that the HP printer was $6 cheaper than the Epson, or whatever the case may be. I'll grant you that if someone buys something that turns out to be shit they might not buy that product again (but then look at McDonald's), but we aren't discussing quality problems here.
Truth is that most people, be they commercial buyers or home users, don't give a damn about whether HP and Dell are getting along. All they want is the best product for their dollar. They don't get all emotional about IBM closing a lab, or Yoda, or whether Richard Stallman approves of a particular company. All they want is a decent product that does what they want at a good price. Advertising convinces them of two of those things, and the price is what it is. There just aren't enough of you emotional little geeks to matter.
And I'm posting as AC because people with Karma as low as mine shouldn't post here more than twice a day.
except HP employees...
HP makes crap except for there high end Unix systems. An HP PC is nearly the worst, low end components, allowing no upgrade. HP printers USED to be decent, but they are now cheap plastic crap that breaks if you look at meanly. Lexmark printers blow away anything HP has put out in a long while, and there are several lines better than that...The ones I feel sorry for are the old compaq support folks, who now get to service and support the wonder HP desktop...arghhh that would be enough to make me go look for another job.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
- Dell spokesman Mike Maher said his company would still sell HP branded printers that it purchases through distributors
Just in case you didnt read the article, and believed the headline.Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
Home users and small businesses like to buy computer systems that include a printer. HP's printer are known for high quality and ubiquitous support. They are a strong incentive for the actual system purchase. If people are trying to chose between a Dell or a Compaq/HP system, the printer could very possibly tilt the balance in favor the Compaq/HP solution. This is a very SMART business move by HP, not, as some knee jerk reactionaries chide, an emotional or bad business move.
Did Dell tell HP they were going to make printers? If so, why? If not, I wonder who spilled the beans and what their bonus will be this year.
Seen the new HP DeskJet 5550 ($150 list price) series of printers, they are so cheap... yet their Color Cartridges are 3/4 of the size of previous HP Cartridges, and not compatible with previous models.
From HP's DeskJet 5550 page's add an optional automatic two-sided printing accessory and save up to 50 percent on paper costs and office file space, but you don't save your cartridge. Each additional Black/White cartridge is $20 and the Tri-Colors ones are $35.
HP makes it's money of cartridges rather than of their printers...
But that's not true. Cannon makes MOST of the engines. The 5L was HP's first (pathetic)attempt at makeing their own engine. They are still doing so on some lower model (definitely throw-away consumer) laser printers.
I remember this one well, because I was unfortunate enough to be working in a repair facility that was HP authorized at the time the 5L came out. Complete crap....nothing but paper path problems and formatter's blowing chunks les that a week out of the box.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
HP never did sell that many printers through Dell anyway.
So HP capitalizes on this and will hurt Dell in the short-term but not supplying Dell with HP's while Dell waits for its own brand to be ready.
This really is just capitalism at work. Like their printers or not, offering HP's line helps Dell sell more boxes and helped HP. Now Dell is in direct competition with HP, would you want to help out your comptetitor? Hell, no.
Dell and the other MS pushing shops need to add value wherever they can to the products that they sell yet don't have any control over. If I'm looking for a new Windoze box with an HP printer and I can get it from company X or company Y but X only offers X's own printer, I'll just go to Y and get my bundled printer. And I generalize with company X and Y b/c that's really all Dell, Compaq, and Gateway, etc, are in the PC business.
While Dell's lame commercials may have driven business from all the moron's who somehow think a Dell is better than a Gateway or any other brand, what it really comes down to is: "Dude, you got a Windoze box." Period.
we laughed while reading that post. That's why it should be rated as Funny.
.sigs are useless; it doesn't protect you from imposters.
You know, I do have to admit, Oki has been putting out some really respectable printers for ages now - and yet they never seem to make the list when people talk about their "favorite printer brands".
Maybe they just never did the advertising push of the other brands? I dunno.... But I remember them having one of the really early personal laser printers on the market, back when I paid nearly $1000 for a Panasonic KXP-4410 laser. The Oki was cheaper, but I bet on Panasonic having the superior product. Seems I probably bet wrong - as the thing had constant paper jam issues, really slow printing, and a tendency to have their fusers die unexpectedly.
They were always selling dot-matrix printers in the consumer computer mags, long before that.
Many Oki 24-pin dot-matrix printers get use and abuse every day in manufacturing shop-floor and retail environments, and they work like a charm.
I guess they never really got into the inkjet market though... As I finish this message, I think maybe that's the biggest reason they remain a relatively obscure brand today.
Printers for 99% of all applications are made by HP. Unless Dell printers are rebranded Canons there is no earthly reason to buy them. Where will you get supplies, how long will they honor warranties? Printers are mechanical devices and they break and wear out.
Who's gonna march into their own personal Viet Nam for driver development and support? Even Lexmark can't get this right and that's all they do.
HP printers Dell Printers All are made in Taiwan!! In the end, Do not we always get the same printer with the same colours and the same time bomb inside it that tells it to explode after the warranty!!
Umm, I read that as Dell being the customer and having a harder time obtaining printers. Really you and I are Dell's customers. Dell is HP's customer (or was).
www.clarke.ca
From lots of personal experience with various laser and inkjet printers, I will buy HP over any other brand. Sure the quality has gone down since 97 when HP started making entry level laser printers. But lets get real here. If you expecting flawless heavy duty printing (like couple reams of paper a day), get a high end laser printer. Having dealt with epson, canon and HP inkjets, the older HP color inkjets are rock solid. I have a 820cse from 1995 that has never given me any problems, even though I've abused it and fed 75lb paper through it. I have friends who have nightmare stories about lexmark printers back in 95-97. I hope for dell's sake Lexmark has improved it's quality. The only lexmark laser printer I've worked with sucked.
There are plenty of other printer companies to make up for that: Lexmark, Epson, other Japanese ones, ...
I agree with what you said.
The big problem is that if you buy a Dell printer where are you going to get replacement consumables? You can complain about the high price of Canon, Epson, HP and Lexmark ink cartridges but at least you can get them from multiple sources. This may not be true for Dell's new line of printers.
(Steve, the Dell guy) "Duuuude, you're getting a Dell! But you're _not_ getting an HP printer........"
(Nelson steps in for a cameo) "Ha ha!"
The next step, I suppose, is that Dell printers will only work with Dell ink cartridges, and a DRM crypto scheme will enforce this.
The engines are all the same. The drivers are th only difference. HP used to rock. Now they suck. Plus the ink is WAAAAY too expensive. Screw em. Buy a Lexmark or an Epson.
Cactus?
Especially how good the extended warrantys are, Circuit City give you like $2 for selling the monitor but on the CSP you get like $25. You can't just sell the computer, you have to sell the extended stuff...if you want to keep your job. Of course strictnein knows that. And as far as quitting your job goes...do it, I'd find a new job first, but do it. Even if you have to take a small pay cut it is worth it, unless you think you can become a store manager(who doesn't make all that much for the amount of work most of them do) quit ASAP. If you have to take a pay cut its ok cuz you have a 9/10 chance the abiltiy to increase your pay will be much higher, CC there is little to no chance of really increasing your pay.
LinuxWorx
Spelling errors are intentional as are gramatical error
I guess I'll have to start citing sources for my info.
mod parent up!
That's what most slashdotters are missing. Dell's not going to "make" printers - they're just going to rebrand someone elses printers, prolly Lexmarks.
Dell doesn't make their own laptops, they don't even design them. The laptops are designed and manufactured for Dell for a Taiwanese company. Dell just adds distribution, marketing, and support. For that matter, from what I hear, HP buys the print heads for all of its ink-jets from Cannon - even HP doesn't make its own printers.
It's easier to think of this situation as Kmart refusing to sell Kmart branded oven-mitts to Target. What does Target care? They'll just buy the oven-mitts direct from the manufacturer and attach their own name to them.
Oh, and BTW, does anyone have any question about the outcome in a battle of HP vs Dell?
Got to agree with most of your post, especially the part about the sexes not working together.
Cactus?
(mmph, snerk) Bwaaahahahahaaha.
Considering their solution for *any* problem seems to be a factory restore. Printer won't work: restore.
Software option can't be found: restore. Computer is on fire: Restore. Oye.
If Dell's printers turn out to be as good as their current support, this outta be fun. (Lexmarks? Oh, god help the poor souls)
Here's why:
Dell is currently going thru a major re-orginization, according to some of the major reps for my area.
I ordered some parts that would take *max* 30 days (normal/working, I don't recall)... Try 2 Months.
Dell is getting more propritary than Apple it seems: PowerSupplies, motherboards, ram (except Rambus, IIRC) CPU's with non-standard heatsyncs (nice design, though) and a few other things I'm forgetting. (on arstechnica they blamed crucial for having substandard ram. ROTFLMAO, like saying HP does not know how to make a good laser printer).
I was getting so fed up I asked a friend how he dealt with the crap service with Dell...the answer?
"Oh, we now buy Gateway's for desktops and Compaqs for servers, now".
Yep, that'll do it.
Simply put, Dell is pissing off a lot of people (except for select few in the Federal Gov't from some I've talked to...gee, wonder why?) inside and outside their own walls.
And rebranding printers?
Heh, what do you want to bet that they will be rewired SCSI cables that go from DB25 to centronics50 and cost 75 bucks a piece and can only be bought from Dell?
(I also wonder how long before they do the same to Microsoft and make their own OS...heh: DeOS...out to be a real winner)
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Highest-moderated goatse.cx link I've ever seen.
I'm not sure if everyone realizes how much this sucks. I buy HP printers through Dell for 4 all technology high schools. It's a lot of high output B&W lasers and expensive color laser printers. I could always get a great deal on the printers through our Premier account with Dell, but the education prices through HP were garbage. Now I'm going to have to pay a lot more to get HP printers. Those Xerox printers are looking even better. Especially the free B&W toner on the color laser printers for life. Not bad
Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land