Rails? Been there. Grails? Done that. Both are decent. Rails is very good, but the abuse of open classes gets old quickly. Grails is ok, but it's really just a thin veneer over a complex mix of Java projects, and God help you if you run into any problems, because you'll be dealing with a stack trace that's 1000s of lines long, and you be troubleshooting these underlying complex java libs.
For me, the play framework (http://www.playframework.org) is the best Rails-like approach on a Java platform. It stays very close to rails, so if you know rails learning it is easy. It's very pragmatic and very fast. It doesn't require a compile step to see your changes. It just works. Best of all, the code is clean and easy to troubleshoot. I suggest you check it out.
Um....there's over 70 committers to PostgreSQL. And even the top 20 work for a wide range of companies. Buying them out would be virtually impossible. PostgreSQL is an open source database done right, both technically and politically. You MySQL apologists simply refuse to acknowledge that you hitched your wagon to the wrong horse, even when your horse may be put down soon.
The problem with that is power consumption. Build your own, and you'll be burning a lot of power unnecessarily because it's overkill. Contrast that with the ReadyNas Duo, which I own, that pulls on average around 30-40W. Much better and green.
(1) Schemas, entity-relationship diagrams, and queries tell me how an application works -- with Active Record this information is strewn across a whole bunch of files (especially in Rails);
Um...somehow, I seriously doubt your claim to have actually used RoR for anything substantial. If you had, you'd know that, while migrations allow you to define your schema it separate files (usefully so), these files are used to generate the file db/schema.rb, which contain the entire database definition in ruby syntax. If you wish to have the DDL, again, it's very very easy. Simple issue "rake db:structure:dump" from your project root. How difficult is that?
(2) Database-independence is a nice idea, but in reality, how often over the lifetime of your website will you migrate to a different database? Usually your database is chosen for you. Usually a switching databases involves coordinating with a lot of people who you'd usually rather not have to deal with -- those issues will take far more time and energy than differences between MySQL and Oracle;
Again, bullshit. I've heard this argument again and again, but we have many customers, each of which have their own preferred database. We typically develop and use PostgreSQL ourselves, but being able to offer MySQL, Oracle or MSSQL support to our customers, so that they can leverage existing resources, is invaluable. If you live in your own closed-wall little world, then perhaps you'll only ever use one database. Or, if you're developing a web app which will remain under your complete control. BUT, if you have paying customers and distribute your app to them, database independence becomes extremely important.
(3) a pretty common design pattern for web pages is to have a form that let's you fill in a few parameters (date, maybe geographical information) into a huge multi-table select statement -- you can do that in Active Record, but basically all you gain is a marginally fancier wrapper than you would have with DBI.
huge multi-table select statement versus sending objects messages? I know which I'd choose.
This entire discussion is pretty entertaining. As a developer of PHP since the later versions of 2, I can safely say from experience that it just is an AWFUL, hacked together language. Anything you develop ends up being hacked together as well (hacks are contagious). It works, sure, but as with all dirty hacks, you suffer pretty quickly. The hacks spread, the ugliness grows, and pretty soon you feel guilty even opening up the source and looking at the crap you've been encouraged to write.
Ruby on Rails has warts here and there, sure, but it does encourage you to write clean code. And, Ruby, more than Rails, gives you such immense flexibility that you find yourself having to unlearn bad habits you were forced to follow by PHP.
Trust me, PHP's days are numbered. Sure, it'll hang around like a bad rash for some years (even COBOL is still widely used), but only because the cost of migrating far outweighs the value in the legacy. Folks using PHP for greenfield applications today, when options like RoR, Grails, or even Django exist, should really check if their heads are on straight.
The ability to use GMail for private domains would be really, really cool. Still, I think the discussions thus far are missing the real meat of the story...do you put your company at risk by letting GMail handle your domain's mail?
If they can't complete the assignments on their own, I'll bet 95% of them won't even recognize incorrect answers or implementations.
I say we go en masse to RentACoder, bid cheaply, and write horribly incorrect code. It'll be a nice helping of getting what's coming to ya, and we'll get paid a little to boot!
I purchased this book in Beta form and am very pleased with having the option. It's a great book so far and I would have hated waiting until August.
The second release, however, quickly brought a problem to my attention. I'd printed out the entire first pdf to read, but had no way of knowing what pages had changed in the second beta. This means re-printing 500+ pages just to get an updated copy.
If this truly becomes a trend in publishing, someone needs to come up with a proper way of documenting changes between revisions!
Burning them at the stake would cost much less, and prove more effective over time. In my opinion, they deserve no less. Anyone who thinks differently should walk a mile in a victim's shoes (or, alternatively, their parents').
I have young ones of my own, and can't fathom how devastating the experience must be. It's easy to spend a few moments pondering what it must be like and instantly feel the anger and outrage that wells within.
After reading the article, I was disappointed in how Miguel danced around the whole patent issue. This is one of the biggest issues surrounding using Mono for actual commercial development, but he really doesn't ease concerns by saying "no problems...yet".
The Mono Project could convert a lot of folks by directly dealing with the patent issue and the fear that Microsoft will eventually lay the smack down. Tell me *why* my company can feel comfortable using Mono for commercial development...or I'll go elsewhere.
Wow...I'm simply staggered by this. I've been waiting around for Netraverse to release a version that supported Windows XP...now I no longer have to wait!
All you haters need to quit your bitchin'....Mr. Fabrice Bellard, THANK YOU FOR THIS PROJECT!
If you'd like to give it a try with Knoppix and you have an ISO lying around, type:
qemu -cdrom/path/to/knoppix.iso
Boots up perfectly. WOW!
Re:OK let me get this straight.
on
Aspect-Oriented PHP
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Umm...no
You run the PHP through the AOP tool after writing the PHP...new PHP spits out, and then you post *that* code to your site. No slowdown...
My co-workers and I have been going to a place like this for sometime here in Greensboro, NC. Digital Lifestyle Center has approx. 16-20 Alienware 64-bit gaming monsters and around 10 XBox'en.
Great place to go after work, enjoy a few Bawls, and kill your co-workers (legally).
I thought we had all finally agreed that LAMP=Linux+Apache+MySql+Python/Perl/PHP/PostgreSQL!?!?!
It's extremenly frustrating that PostgreSQL is continually left out of technologies such as this. It's a mature, stable alternative and is (IMHO) the best open source database option out there.
MySQL only beats it in the marketing department. Judging by the results (and those on the part of a certain Redmond company), perhaps marketing is more important than a quality product anyway.
Open enough that I can take the source and create my own version of Solaris? Are we going to see "White Box Solaris", "Tao Solaris", "Debian Solaris", etc, soon?
Is it more BSD-like, or more GPL-like? Can commercial companies use it without paying CA for commercial licenses?
The PostgreSQL license is what keeps drawing me back to it (aside from being a frickin' awesome database)...I can use it as much as I want without paying exorbitant fees. My company does, however, donate back to the community as much as possible.
I've searched through the *for profit* GuruNet service, and I'm not really that impressed. As a long time user of Wikipedia, I have all the information there at my finger tips. Try a few searches on GuruNet and then do an equivalent on Wikipedia...I have yet to find a topic where Wikipedia doesn't blow GuruNet's information out of the water.
It's a shame companies like Amazon don't embrace open, community supported services like Wikipedia for tools like A9. I would be much more likely to use A9 if they did...as it stands, it's just added, wasted effort.
I was never a fan of the Fountainhead until I started following this story about the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution et al. Quite honestly, I've never seen a clearer situation of life imitating art. The OS movement is definitely Roark-ish, and Ken Brown excudes the very essence of what Toohey represented.
Frankly, I'm sicked that folks like Brown really do exist. I'd much rather leave them in the Fiction section.
Forewarning: The open source community is not portrayed in positive light so you might want to skip reading this.
Oh yeah..that makes sense. I'll hastily turn my head away so as to avoid any negative anti-FSF vibes. After all, I can't think for myself. I need you to tell me what's ok to read. Thanks
This letter is a thinly guised attempt to misrepresent the facts and send a message to companies considering open source. The message reads something like: "We're right...and we're so confident we're right, we're going to talk down to the open source community, patronize them a bit, and then offer to work with them to *help* them out of their jam. We're so nice and right and honest, you have to trust us and feel sorry for the way we've been abused."
Too bad we can't tack this on to the beginning of the open letter....it'd make things a bit clearer for the average reader:
Slashdot Mirror
Rails? Been there. Grails? Done that. Both are decent. Rails is very good, but the abuse of open classes gets old quickly. Grails is ok, but it's really just a thin veneer over a complex mix of Java projects, and God help you if you run into any problems, because you'll be dealing with a stack trace that's 1000s of lines long, and you be troubleshooting these underlying complex java libs. For me, the play framework (http://www.playframework.org) is the best Rails-like approach on a Java platform. It stays very close to rails, so if you know rails learning it is easy. It's very pragmatic and very fast. It doesn't require a compile step to see your changes. It just works. Best of all, the code is clean and easy to troubleshoot. I suggest you check it out.
Um....there's over 70 committers to PostgreSQL. And even the top 20 work for a wide range of companies. Buying them out would be virtually impossible. PostgreSQL is an open source database done right, both technically and politically. You MySQL apologists simply refuse to acknowledge that you hitched your wagon to the wrong horse, even when your horse may be put down soon.
The next Dead or Phish show will be soooooo filled with guilt....
The problem with that is power consumption. Build your own, and you'll be burning a lot of power unnecessarily because it's overkill. Contrast that with the ReadyNas Duo, which I own, that pulls on average around 30-40W. Much better and green.
(1) Schemas, entity-relationship diagrams, and queries tell me how an application works -- with Active Record this information is strewn across a whole bunch of files (especially in Rails);
Um...somehow, I seriously doubt your claim to have actually used RoR for anything substantial. If you had, you'd know that, while migrations allow you to define your schema it separate files (usefully so), these files are used to generate the file db/schema.rb, which contain the entire database definition in ruby syntax. If you wish to have the DDL, again, it's very very easy. Simple issue "rake db:structure:dump" from your project root. How difficult is that?
(2) Database-independence is a nice idea, but in reality, how often over the lifetime of your website will you migrate to a different database? Usually your database is chosen for you. Usually a switching databases involves coordinating with a lot of people who you'd usually rather not have to deal with -- those issues will take far more time and energy than differences between MySQL and Oracle;
Again, bullshit. I've heard this argument again and again, but we have many customers, each of which have their own preferred database. We typically develop and use PostgreSQL ourselves, but being able to offer MySQL, Oracle or MSSQL support to our customers, so that they can leverage existing resources, is invaluable. If you live in your own closed-wall little world, then perhaps you'll only ever use one database. Or, if you're developing a web app which will remain under your complete control. BUT, if you have paying customers and distribute your app to them, database independence becomes extremely important.
(3) a pretty common design pattern for web pages is to have a form that let's you fill in a few parameters (date, maybe geographical information) into a huge multi-table select statement -- you can do that in Active Record, but basically all you gain is a marginally fancier wrapper than you would have with DBI.
huge multi-table select statement versus sending objects messages? I know which I'd choose.
This entire discussion is pretty entertaining. As a developer of PHP since the later versions of 2, I can safely say from experience that it just is an AWFUL, hacked together language. Anything you develop ends up being hacked together as well (hacks are contagious). It works, sure, but as with all dirty hacks, you suffer pretty quickly. The hacks spread, the ugliness grows, and pretty soon you feel guilty even opening up the source and looking at the crap you've been encouraged to write.
Ruby on Rails has warts here and there, sure, but it does encourage you to write clean code. And, Ruby, more than Rails, gives you such immense flexibility that you find yourself having to unlearn bad habits you were forced to follow by PHP.
Trust me, PHP's days are numbered. Sure, it'll hang around like a bad rash for some years (even COBOL is still widely used), but only because the cost of migrating far outweighs the value in the legacy. Folks using PHP for greenfield applications today, when options like RoR, Grails, or even Django exist, should really check if their heads are on straight.
The ability to use GMail for private domains would be really, really cool. Still, I think the discussions thus far are missing the real meat of the story...do you put your company at risk by letting GMail handle your domain's mail?
If they can't complete the assignments on their own, I'll bet 95% of them won't even recognize incorrect answers or implementations.
I say we go en masse to RentACoder, bid cheaply, and write horribly incorrect code. It'll be a nice helping of getting what's coming to ya, and we'll get paid a little to boot!
I purchased this book in Beta form and am very pleased with having the option. It's a great book so far and I would have hated waiting until August.
The second release, however, quickly brought a problem to my attention. I'd printed out the entire first pdf to read, but had no way of knowing what pages had changed in the second beta. This means re-printing 500+ pages just to get an updated copy.
If this truly becomes a trend in publishing, someone needs to come up with a proper way of documenting changes between revisions!
Burning them at the stake would cost much less, and prove more effective over time. In my opinion, they deserve no less. Anyone who thinks differently should walk a mile in a victim's shoes (or, alternatively, their parents').
I have young ones of my own, and can't fathom how devastating the experience must be. It's easy to spend a few moments pondering what it must be like and instantly feel the anger and outrage that wells within.
After reading the article, I was disappointed in how Miguel danced around the whole patent issue. This is one of the biggest issues surrounding using Mono for actual commercial development, but he really doesn't ease concerns by saying "no problems...yet".
The Mono Project could convert a lot of folks by directly dealing with the patent issue and the fear that Microsoft will eventually lay the smack down. Tell me *why* my company can feel comfortable using Mono for commercial development...or I'll go elsewhere.
Ummm...no they haven't. Their site still lists Workstation 5.0 as the latest, and it only supports 95/98/ME...
All you haters need to quit your bitchin'....Mr. Fabrice Bellard, THANK YOU FOR THIS PROJECT!
If you'd like to give it a try with Knoppix and you have an ISO lying around, type:
Boots up perfectly. WOW!
Umm...no
You run the PHP through the AOP tool after writing the PHP...new PHP spits out, and then you post *that* code to your site. No slowdown...
My co-workers and I have been going to a place like this for sometime here in Greensboro, NC. Digital Lifestyle Center has approx. 16-20 Alienware 64-bit gaming monsters and around 10 XBox'en.
Great place to go after work, enjoy a few Bawls, and kill your co-workers (legally).
Guys,
I thought we had all finally agreed that LAMP=Linux+Apache+MySql+Python/Perl/PHP/ PostgreSQL !?!?!
It's extremenly frustrating that PostgreSQL is continually left out of technologies such as this. It's a mature, stable alternative and is (IMHO) the best open source database option out there.
MySQL only beats it in the marketing department. Judging by the results (and those on the part of a certain Redmond company), perhaps marketing is more important than a quality product anyway.
sigh...
So they've open sourced it...but how "open"?
Open enough that I can take the source and create my own version of Solaris? Are we going to see "White Box Solaris", "Tao Solaris", "Debian Solaris", etc, soon?
Lawrence F. Probst III
Chairman and Chief
Executive Officer
Year Salary Bonus
2004 $672,759 $781,000
2003 $696,535 $1,100,000
2002 $611,023 $985,000
Find the rest, including salaries of other executives, HERE. Also note, this in no way covers *ALL* the compensation...just reported salaries.
Is it more BSD-like, or more GPL-like? Can commercial companies use it without paying CA for commercial licenses?
The PostgreSQL license is what keeps drawing me back to it (aside from being a frickin' awesome database)...I can use it as much as I want without paying exorbitant fees. My company does, however, donate back to the community as much as possible.
I've searched through the *for profit* GuruNet service, and I'm not really that impressed. As a long time user of Wikipedia, I have all the information there at my finger tips. Try a few searches on GuruNet and then do an equivalent on Wikipedia...I have yet to find a topic where Wikipedia doesn't blow GuruNet's information out of the water.
It's a shame companies like Amazon don't embrace open, community supported services like Wikipedia for tools like A9. I would be much more likely to use A9 if they did...as it stands, it's just added, wasted effort.
I've verified it. If I go to the link in Firefox, I get:
MISSING CONTROL: lwhead
However, going there with IE works just fine.
Apparently, the percentage of us who don't prefer to have our computers take over by popups/home page hijacking are irrelevant.
How's NX any different/better? When it first came out, I gave it a look but didn't think speed was overly impressive...
I was never a fan of the Fountainhead until I started following this story about the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution et al. Quite honestly, I've never seen a clearer situation of life imitating art. The OS movement is definitely Roark-ish, and Ken Brown excudes the very essence of what Toohey represented.
Frankly, I'm sicked that folks like Brown really do exist. I'd much rather leave them in the Fiction section.
Forewarning: The open source community is not portrayed in positive light so you might want to skip reading this.
Oh yeah..that makes sense. I'll hastily turn my head away so as to avoid any negative anti-FSF vibes. After all, I can't think for myself. I need you to tell me what's ok to read. Thanks
Mozilla Firebird, at least. Javascript seems incompatible. And I was so excited :(
This letter is a thinly guised attempt to misrepresent the facts and send a message to companies considering open source. The message reads something like: "We're right...and we're so confident we're right, we're going to talk down to the open source community, patronize them a bit, and then offer to work with them to *help* them out of their jam. We're so nice and right and honest, you have to trust us and feel sorry for the way we've been abused."
Too bad we can't tack this on to the beginning of the open letter....it'd make things a bit clearer for the average reader: