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Tracking Sex Offenders via GPS for Life
ecmcn writes "According to Yahoo! news, the governor of Florida just passed a bill that, along with increasing the jail time served for convicted sex offenders, requires them to be tracked for life via GPS. No technical details about the tracking, but it mentions "warning authorities when a sex offender is someplace he shouldn't be". Maybe they can get Google maps to add red zones around all of the restricted areas."
<sarcasm>
Why limit this to just sex offenders? Why not all criminals? Heck...why don't we just tag everyone...after all, odds are everyone will commit a criminal act sometime in their lives, right?
I got a great idea....we'll tag everyone, giving each transmitter a unique frequency....their 'number', if you will.
Oh wait....this idea has already been proposed...
(Interesting side note...our president's number seems to be 666.
</sarcasm>
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
"warning authorities when a sex offender is someplace he shouldn't be"
Trolling is a art,
Is it not possible to conduct some tests on these offenders to determine the risk of repeating the crime? Some people will change after paying time in jail, some will never change.
If someone's going to commit the crime again, I believe it's not too difficult to remove the tracker and get on with the business in a short period of time, which means it'll still be too late for the victims.
Imagine if MJ was found guilty in Florida, paparazzi would have rejoiced. Actually not, the boy was 13.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Maybe I'm just not realistic about this, but why are we ever allowing child predators to go free, ever? I'm half-wondering what part of a civilized society even allows people like this to continue to consume food and oxygen?
I know that historically, the rich and powerful (especially amongst conquering armies) chose children as spoils of war. (And it still occurs in many third-world countries, especially amongst war orphans.) But why do we continue to allow this behavior to go mostly unpunished? What's wrong with us?
John
I'm wondering if this will be struck down by some court? Punishment after a sentence is done...that doesn't sound like it goes along with the constitution.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
That they do that to the Florida spammers, there is a hell of a difference between a spammer and a sex offender.
Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
Track all you like. I'll be at the elementary school giving out candy if you need me. [fp]
I hope they interface this with Google Maps, like the taxi finder service. Then we can watch them run around the city in real time!
At the current rate of convictions, the entire USA would probably look like the old maps of Communist Russia. Solid red from Sea to Shining Sea.
Give them two choices:
In the scrotum in place of their testicles
In the head in place of their medulla oblongata
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I guess this adds a whole new dimension to Google's trust rank. Maybe in the future Google will have a 'People' search, like a directory of the world. Could you imagine that?
There are 2 types of people in the world, those who find that stupid binary joke funny, and those who don't.
Why don't they just give them all t-shirts they have to wear instead?
In 10 years its going to be there anyways, lets save the taxpayers some $$$ and cut to the chase.
I love this idea. While these criminals will be forced to give up some their rights, they deserve it. There is no great way to track these bastards because they just don't register when they move somehwere. The only problem will be how they will keep the unit affixed to them, remember in 12 monkeys when Bruce Willis' character discovered he had to pull out this teeth?
Someone cloned your RFID tag, disabled yours with some sort of shock, went out and did a bunch of sex offending and stuff, then destroyed their copy of the tag?
Honestly, I think its a good idea. If it's a despicable enough crime, you should live with the repurcussions for life.
Public safety vs. personal freedoms. Just how many freedoms do you lose when you sexually assault someone... As someone who is NOT a felon, I see no problem in this tracking... But what if it was a wrong place, wrong time drunken haze kind of thing. I don't know what to think sometimes. You just have to be careful whose toes you step on.
You can tell I'm an aries because of my ram.
I wonder if someday soon we'll be able to log into GoogleMaps and monitor the movements of the registered sex offenders in our community.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
I'm not a sex offender, nor have I ever been one, but I do think this is going a little overboard, unless we're talking about using it just to enforce the conditions of their parole and not tacking on new restrictions that weren't previously being made.
And what happens when the person takes the subway or is in a building? People act like GPS is the all-knowing eye in the sky. In reality, it fails in urban landscapes.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Let's just hope they don't flee to Europe. Google Maps mysteriously omits some prominent countries.
Seriously it's like sex offenders are any worse then them? I would like to know where a murderer is and a rapist is at all times too so i can avoid that area.
The proposed ammendment to the US Constitution was a similar strategy; the White House knew it didn't stand a chance, but it put the issue in the minds of voters and polarized people around the issue.
Craig Steffen
http://www.craigsteffen.net
Before anyone says "what about thier RIGHTS", let me just say, THEY DO NOT DESERVE RIGHTS. Sex offenders are _by far_ the worst human beings on the face of this planet. I do not consider this harsh enough. If we could get the repeat offenders of ANY crime wear identifing clothing, or marks, I believe it would cut down on repeat offenders. Anyone who went to a Catholic school knows what I mean, shame is the most powerful way to punish someone.
--sig fault--
Well this seems awfully pointless unless we GPS all children.
Doesn't the government have more important things to do, like regulate indecency on Satellite Radio or make sure Baseball is steroid free?
And what about Jessica Lunsford's killer? All he did was cross the street. He wasn't where he wasn't supposed to be until he fled to Georgia. What if his trashmen left his trash cans on the wrong side of the street? Will an alarm go off when he's within 50 yards of a house where a potential victim lives? Imagine taking care of THAT database! Who defines where are the places he's allowed to go? Yes they would have figured out right away that he did it, but it wouldn't have saved her life. If you're going to strip liberties, at least make it worth it. (not-so-subliminal rabidity activation scheme here)
Intelligent Life on Earth
This seems to be a logical jump to me. At the moment many jurisdictions use tracking devises to keep track of parolees and, in some cases, people with location dependent restraining orders (e.g. Washington, D.C. uses both on a limited scale)
Now that the sexual offender registry contains no date expiration, and many of the new laws mandate notifying communities if you, a sex offender, move in, it seems like a decent logical jump to track them as well. This doesn't seem that different than using the devices in the case of location dependent restraining orders (can't go within 50 yards of a school, etc).
If there is a difference, please let me know, I am certainly not a lawyer.
--
I recently saw a GPS locator made for kids to wear...it would attach to their wrist like a bulky wristwatch and continually broadcast its location.
Now here's an idea...tie the two systems together, so if a kid wearing one of these things comes within 50 feet of a known sex offender, it emits an alarm and/or broadcasts a warning to the parents.
I should be rich.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Under God, indivisible, with LIBERTY and justice for ALL.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Or maybe they can tag the lot of us with a GPS device that warns us when a sex offender is within 20 meters.
That'll protect us all for sure!
First of all, I think this is a good idea for public safety, but I wonder how one determines what an "inappropriate location" is. Also, I wonder if this is just the first step toward government tracking of the civilian population. It seems to me that sex offenders are being used as guinea pigs. First it's GPS tracking. Next, they'll be using RFID tags to track every purchase they make, in order to be sure they're not buying "inappropriate merchandise."
Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of.
I've been playing with handheld GPS recently which I assume is what this would use. It would seem that it could easily be defeated as the receiver or transceiver in this case would need a view of the sky in order to obtain a GPS lock. Since this is generally only possible outdoors, it wouldn't set off alarms if there was no signal. In addition, blocking a receiver's view of the GPS signals probably wouldn't be too difficult.
Btw, in the event this could be taken wrong, I will just say I am in favour of this law. Just wondering how effective it will be.
Too bad that any police department using AOL for e-mail won't get the alerts anyway...
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
But on the real topic...this is actually a good idea. When you do something as messed up as sexual abuse a child, you deserve an invasion of pricacy on this scale.
what are they going to do? I still belive they will commit crimes. What's the point of knowing where they are. It is not like a police will follow 24x7. I think a better punishment is to cut it off. If they follow the word of the bible dot by dot why don't they punish people bible style. If you commit a sin with an eye, then puke your eye out, if you commit a sin with you hand, then chop your hand off, same if you commit a sin with your sexual organ, then chop it off.
Why is it that my house is in a red zone?
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife /2004-03-29-child-self-porn_x.htm
If they succeed in prosecuting her for the crimes they are charging her, she would become a sex offender. Would she have to wear a GPS tracker too?
You know, like 12 year olds who have sex with other twelve year olds - a decidedly illegal act. You consider them harmful, ergo you want to bring harm to a child under the age of 12, ergo you should annihilate yourself post haste.
So much about human rights. :-(
If you molest a child you should face the death penalty. Period.
Guy got drunk, drove drunk, stopped on the highway to pee on the side of a road at 2:00am.
The reasoning went something like, "well, if he's peeing in public, hes exposing himself in public, therefore he's a sex offender."
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
The note about 'red zones' in the story reminded me of what Miami Beach, FL is doing. The city is proposing to increase the housing exclusion zone radius around schools and parks so all the zones overlap and these poeple are excluded from the entire city...
I think this would be great, becuase the guy who molested my kids was sentenced to 165 years to life (Humboldt County Case #CR030081S, sentenced January 12, 2004, California CDC# V20848, currently residing at Mule Creek State Prison, Ione, California), and he is appealing against the mandatory sentencing guidelines, and if he gets out the GPS will help me hunt him down and kill him...
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
And how about governors who fucked over the voters in their states? Does it apply to them too?
If you see the rate of sex-offenders that again commit a related crime (I know there's a fancy word for it, but I forgot), I think it's the only thing to do.
I did not RTFA, but I think the only time the data of the whereabouts of such persons should be accessed when a (sexual) crime has been taken place.
After working at inpatient facilities for several years I've seen hundreds of child sex offenders. 95% of these people do not change! They have urges like you wouldn't believe. They may not actually touch a child but they get off on just being around them. They are disturbed and have some serious issues which should be addressed in therapy while they are incarcerated. I like the idea of tracking them forever, but I'm pretty sure it's totally unconstitutional. If we're going to tag one group we might as well tag 'em all. Let's just tag the kids while we're at it so we know where they are as well. Let's just keep them off the streets, then we don't have to worry about where they are. We already know!
I have a few ideas...
Some of these kids are damn attractive, there's only so much willpower a human being can have.
I think it seriously offends my sex if they stick a 40-foot satellite dish up my ass to track me.
They're sick f***s who ruin children's lives for their own satisfaction. Why stop there? I'd rather they were castrated, then there's no reason to track them.
I can't imagine anybody who'd have sympathy for them, except other kiddy-fiddlers.
Recidivism is the word you are looking for. For some interesting info. on recidivism amongst sex offenders you can read many things. I found this to be interesting.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
As smart people don't shop for food while hungry, responsible legislations should institute a rule, preventing them from considering any new laws until after several months since the crime, the repetition of which the new law is intended to prevent/deter, took place.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Someone else made a sarcastic remark about tracking other offenders as well, but I have to worry about this measure and related measures as well. (Earlier today there was a story about Ohio's drunk driver plates and the proposed pink plates as well.)
There are thousands of people falsely accused of crimes on a regular basis and while many (hopefully most) false accusations get cleared up, many do not and it leads to needlessly painful and complicated lifestyles for many unfortunate people. *I* am not one of the unfortunate, but I could have been had investigators not done their jobs investicaging properly. (If I were black or poor or both, I'm pretty sure I'd have been convicted quickly.) But the fact is, being accused alone is often enough to mark a person for life and the abuse of the system is way too prevalant in my opinion. (Countless divorcing men are thrown into jail while wives attempt to maintain custody of children by accusing the men of abuses of all sorts... way too common and sadly, women are rarely, if ever held accountable for making these allegations...and if a defendant cannot afford legal counsel? He's screwed.)
And now yet again people are having their sentances increased beyond judicial order by adding yet another portion of a life sentance. What ever happened to "pay debt to society"? As usual, fear is paving the way to law that abuses the people, their freedoms and rights.
Just to repeat, I'm not an unfortunate one, but I can so easily imagine how I or anyone else could suddenly become one without having deserved it. Hell, even a false accusation that never gets erased can cause irreparable harm to a person's reputation. I almost lost a job because it was found that my ex-wife had made accusations that were documented to be proven false later. I can't get those things expunged without spending a lot of money and I had done nothing wrong.
Why are we doing this? Does it help keep us any safer? Fear is driving people to crazy things.
The best way to track these people is with a well marked headstone over their graves.
http://plif.andkon.com/archive/wc198.gif
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
He demo'd it... "bleep bleep" - sounded just like a nextel to me.
Tattoos.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Time to get cracking on those sex crimes I've been putting off so I can get my free gps unit....
...but I worry that it would be the thin edge of the wedge. I'm sure there are many in law enforcement that salivate at the idea of every traffic offender waddling around with a GPS clenched in his buttocks.
I think the correct solution is to keep molesters locked up, or painlessly execute them. They're sick, the sickness makes them dangerous, and we don't know how to cure them. Until we can cure them, we can't have them running loose. It's harsh, but I think doing that would free up resources we could devote to figuring out how to identify and cure these people.
"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. [...] [T]he capacity to assert social and political control over the individual will vastly increase. It will soon be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and to maintain up-to-date, complete files, containing even most personal information about the health or personal behavior of the citizen in addition to more customary data. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."
-Zbigniew Brzezinski
wives could use these on their wily husbands and vice versa ! it would be fun to watch... :)
One of the great beauties of your constitution is that everyone, really, everyone does have rights. Nobody is left without rights and nothing can take the basic human rights away from someone.
This is probably one of the greatest accomplishments of the US and one of its greatest gifts to humanity.
It's sad that I currently get the impression that I as a non-US citizen have to constantly remind americans about this.
it just that you want to be warned about some low-lifes BEFORE they get a chance to screw up AGAIN.
But its becoming almost imposible to get away, never mind get away with something. Soon your privacy will end at your bathroom door. (They've installed camera surveilance on my street. So much for frolicking around the apartment naked.)
The problem comes with data mining for criminal activity. When will your pass-time become criminal? When will having walked down TWO streets where 'crimes' have taken place indentify YOU as a suspect.
There're already instances of 'the Watchers' watching women with nice butts, being bored enough and being able to follow them with the cameras, match their license plate with the DMV records and get ALL of the related info (such as your SSN, you'r employment history, your medical records, etc.)
Who will you 'accidentally' bump into?
Quid custodes ipso custodes.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
RFID chips in sex offenders + Chips in kids that will warn them (or parents) when offender is near.
At the very least, Lojack your kids, people!
Parent post has been forwarded to the Mule Creek State Prison officials.
Would be to sentence them to 25 years in prison then 10 years of monitoring. I can't see how this could be legal to apply retroactively. Paying your debt to society isn't like paying your comcast bill; they government can't increase the penalties every time they feel like it.
I think a bigger improvement would be to make failure to register as a sex offender into a felony - i believe it's currently a misdemeanor. That way we'd at least have a bit more security in knowing if they live nearby.
... at highway rest areas in Texas. Nope, not even if you have to go really bad.
Besides, there's nothing good to see there any more.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Before the dumbasses say "lock them up", you should think twice about how poorly defined "sex offense" is in US law and in most people's minds. In most states two 17-year old boys having consensual sex is a jailable sex offense. Is it fair to lock them up or track them for life (never mind the stupidity of the original law). Or how about a 17-year old boy and 17-year girl who are "legal"; boy turns 18 the next day and is now a sex offender (a pedophile) cuz he screwed his 17-year old GF, who is a minor. This shit really happens.
Are these people guilty of anything? Are they "unreformable"? The law in some states sure says they're sex offenders.
Not all sex "offenses" are the same. Maybe that's why we shouldn't lock them up for life. Think.
That way their crappy parents can keep track of their own damn kids!
No technical details about the tracking, but it mentions "warning authorities when a sex offender is someplace he shouldn't be".
Like inside of his 14 year old daughter?
My goodness, the probably second most famous governor in the nation and the post doesn't even mention his name. This guy, Jeb Bush, is the same guy that did all that Terri Shiavo shit, remember? Just a few weeks ago? Brother of the president?
I'm on a road shaped like a figure eight; I'm going nowhere but I'm guaranteed to be late.
"...warning authorities when a sex offender is someplace he shouldn't be".
No, the authorites can determine the location only after downloading the GPS log from the monitoring device. So, the police will only be able to assert that Chester the Molester was in fact hanging out at the Nursery School last week. Conviently, it meets privacy requirements because its passive and isnt "prior restraint". (Nice to see the ACLU feels Chester's right to commit a crime is more important than Suzy's right to live free of such threats)
Some, expensive, limited range devices will call the police when the link is broken between the monitoring device and the 'base' station. This is different than the GPS idea - its simple RF, and doesnt give location data. It only tells the police that Chester has probably moved out of range from his base-station, thus requiring the officer to stop by and see if Chester is gone, or if the battery is simply drained.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
Google's links to jamming GPS signals
How much is this going to cost tax payers? Seriously. If this were a tribal society or even america 100 years ago they would have just killed the perpetrator. Someone that cannot stop themselves from their own inclinations needs to be taken out. I'm sorry but with certain crimes there should be little recourse. A $.35 bullet is really cheap considering the tens of thousands we waste housing these monsters and then paying someone to watch their every movement. If you want to rape or molest a child or a baby you can get up to 15 years in prison. That is roughly half a million alone just to house them. Imagine what half a million in scholarships could give a poor community. Imagine how much benefit hundreds of people could see from half a million versus one predator who by his actions has given up his rights to be a part of our society. We would have hung people like this on the spot 100 years ago and why shouldn't we continue to do so? What about the families and the kids whose lives have been destroyed? What recourse do they have? The satisfaction that the man that raped their little 9 year old gets to walk in 10-15 years and potentially ravage some other child along the way?
Sad. Vigalante justice never seemed so appealing.
zosxavius photography
Kansas v. Hendricks
..... One has to wonder about the personal rights implications. I know that some are going to say that sex offenders have no rights and I agree with that to a point. Somebody from the ACLU is going to argue that having somebody's exact location 24/7 could considered to be unreasonable to some degree.
Another consideration.... How does this help if the sex offender is where he's supposed to be, but a child is with him? It doesn't IMHO.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
What happens to wrongly convicted "sex offenders"? How about all those commies, perverts, and people who don't particularly like our glorious leader?
This bill is absolutely insane.
This may not be a popular sentiment here, but what is done to sex offenders has gone way overboard.
Consider what 'sex offender' can mean. We're immediately led to imagine a child molester, but consider that a 'sex offense' in some less enlightened areas in the country can be things like
Sodomy (between consenting adults)
Public Urination
Now for those offenders that are the not nice things we are inclined to imagine, either the offender is a threat to public safety or he is not. There may be fine distinctions as to how an offender is considered a threat, but in the end it is a binary condition: Threat/Notthreat.
If the person is a threat, that person should first NOT BE OUT IN SOCIETY, that's what prisons are for! Second, it would be in the public's best interest that the offender be given treatment such that he is no longer a threat upon eventual release.
If that person is not a threat, LEAVE HIM ALONE! This increasingly public punishment of sex offenders makes even repentent, treatable offenders pariahs in any community. Look at what happened to the guy just recently released from Atascadero Hospital only to be bounced around from Mill valley to Oakland to Antioch, people picketing outside of his room, the location of which was released to the press.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
Sorry this may be a culture gap for me but I find this whole concept hypocritical. An adult having sex with a minor of the age 17 years the adult can be in soup. Now change the scenario where both the partners are minors and have sex. Now it is OK in one case and not in another. Shouldn't the thrust of the Laws to protect the minor from getting pregnant by accident. You have two contradicting laws here, while one says you are not supposed to discipline your kids or you go to jail. On the other hand if your kids decides to go ahead and get pregnant with an affair there is nothing you can do. In one case the sex is a crime because an adult is involved, other case it is supposed to be consensual.
Better yet, let's have Google map the nearest 10 sex offenders to you at any time! Complete with a link to their criminal record. Google will teach you to 'Do no evil', you nasty sex offenders!
they sign them into law. Legislatures pass bills.
Any sex offender seriously contemplating raping and killing a child will not hesitate to chop off the monitoring bracelet and go underground. Period.
This is a ridiculous law. But it gives a scared public the warm fuzzies, and some politicians get to look good on TV for a while.
It's like the Schaivo thing. Douchebag Tom DeLay and all those other political flaks were just looking to score brownie points with the public. Call me a cynic, but I doubt anyone in Washington looked at it any other way.
http://sbindependent.org/node/378
RIFD or GPS to follow.
now i can truely 'own' everyone..
they'll just pull it out with a tool similar to total recall and then put it in a rat.
Look I'm sorry but this is just how absurd things have gotten around here. We are tagging and tracking sex offenders for life but not people that have killed? This ranks right up there with spammers getting jail time. The entire point of our system isn't to mark someone for the rest of their life. The idea is we change them while going through prison to be more constructive members of society...I guess we gave up on that a long time ago though.
What constitutes sex offense? In Georgia, isn't adultery included? I know the supreme court has struck down anti-sodomy laws.
I assume statutory rape is included with rape and sexual assault. But what about sexual harrassment? What about prostitution?
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
The real and unfortunate problem is recidivism among sex offenders is insanely high. This is mostly due to opptimistic shrinks stamping predators as reformed. What we really need to due is spend some serious time and money trying to find out how sex offenders tick and addressing that problem, not creating unconstitutional laws that AT BEST will result in "Well Mr.Smith, the good news is we know exactly where and who raped your child" :(
This sounds like a huge waste of resources, these things work fine for enforcing house arrest, but if it just shows the daily movement around a city it is pretty useless. The creeps will have to be able to go to the grocery store, walmart, and lots of other places where children are common anyway, and could have someone chained in the basement and simply look like they're at home watching TV. It's not like they can't remove the thing if they wanted to go on a rampage either.
I believe the main goal is to harrass these offenders enough that they simply move to another state, but I'd worry that if they make life on the outside too crappy for these guys when they get out they might not have much incentive to behave themselves.
hrmm, I think this should be a two strike deal.
Wear it for 10 years, if they commit the crime again within that period or after that period, or take it out during that period they wear it even longer, more severe the penalties are, etc.
After all, they shouldnt have been molesting or fucking children to begin with, also pass a law which prevents people who are not sex offenders to be tagged unreasonably. Make a law for murderers as well. President Bush and most of his cabinet and former cabinet would be tracked down for the rest of their days.
I say 10 years for the first offense because there are people who wont do it again or have been falsely accused.
However, less serious crimes (eg, ones that dont involve physically harming others) and normal people should never be forced to wear GPS tags or have them forcibly implanted somewhere.
Which brings up another thing, these sex offenders should have the implant put somehere they cannot remove, like their dick or spine.
Burning them at the stake would cost much less, and prove more effective over time. In my opinion, they deserve no less. Anyone who thinks differently should walk a mile in a victim's shoes (or, alternatively, their parents').
I have young ones of my own, and can't fathom how devastating the experience must be. It's easy to spend a few moments pondering what it must be like and instantly feel the anger and outrage that wells within.
The law only applies to people convicted of certain crimes against children 11 or younger. And man, if you are trying to have sex with children you NEED to be locked up. 25 to life and then being tagged by Big Brother sounds good to me...I have no sympathy for such animals.
-R
If you get this, we're 10 of a kind.
Except GPSs don't work indoors or in heavy urban areas... but man they're screwed when they go on nature hikes!
... under Canada, with liberty and justice for all.
Why am I on Slashdot? I'm bored. Why am I bored? I'm on Slashdot.
Get a clue ! That's par for course.
1. Sex offenders are very badly perceived (and sometimes rightly so)
2. Action on sex offender is relatively easy, try charging some guy with an army of lawyers and media support ! (see O.J , Michael Jackson et al)
3. Persecution of sex offenders make official look like they're "doing something" and protecting citizens
4. Attention focused on sex crime is an excellent distractor from even worse crimes, white collar crime ruining people lifes and savings generating hundred thousand of poor, destitute and psycologically broken people...more of them turning to violence.
Don't be held slave by a very tiny minority that wants state to persecute penile showing as if it was murder ! WAKE UP !
Article 1,Clause 3 of the US constitution: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
What the heck are you talking about? The clause you quote from the US Constitution states that you cannot create a law in order to prosecute me for something that was legal at the time I did it (ex post facto ~= after the fact). It has nothing to do with deciding to write a new law to use a technology that was not previously available. If you RTFA you'll note that
In other words, a current offender would have to offend again (or break the rules again) before they could be sentenced under this new law.
occassionally at least.
I used to take the simplistic view that going to prison WAS paying your debt to society. As such, once released you were a free (wo)man again. Not that I had any love for sexual predators, I felt the requirement of notification to law enforcement when moving was unconstitutional and a violation of the "paid your debt" philosophy.
But as it was explained to me, when sexual predators are freed from prison, they are not done serving their sentence. The notification is part of a type of "bargain": release in exchange for notification. But as another poster pointed out, many do not uphold their end of the deal. I suppose you could have a hypothetical situation where the inmate prefers to stay in prison rather than notify of movement. Of course this is unacceptable in practice due to prison overpopulation and it causes an (undue?) burden on taxpayers. So in the end, it's more of a forced option.
So in the end, I'm not sure lifetime GPS Tracking is a violation of rights, but I think in practice it won't be very useful.
Still, I can see a persuasive argument being made that it is a restriction on the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" inalienable right, which is by definition not a right that can be granted or taken away by the government according to the US Constitution.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
I am sure you are leaving lots of DNA in there.
Now if someone gets murdered in that restroom... the jury only hears.. "His DNA was all over the crime scene."
DNA being present is not proof of a crime. Only that some of your DNA was there, and possibly it came directly from you.
I think we should combine GPS tracking of criminals with services like this one
= 12410776
/.
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=148095&cid
mentioned earlier today on
then I could get an SMS message on my cell phone when a sex offender was near.
wait wait -- even better. let's put GPS tracking on all the KIDS, then we can check every ten seconds or so if the location of the sex offender is too close to some group of kids, and notify all the people in the area with an SMS message
wait wait -- even betterer let's put GPS tracking devices on everyone and let the governement make some big heuristic rule set for who is supposed to be where at certain times and put shock collars on people that create taser-like debilitation if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time
employers wouldn't have to use punch cards any more!
you'd never have any ambiguity in crimes, like "where were you on the night of May 5?" -- 'cause we'd already know!
no one would ever get lost ever again...
etc etc etc
it would be swell...
This is the new trend, though. Prisons are too full, so everyone gets a split sentence; some time in prison, some time out of prison on probation with a bunch of restrictions on what they can do.
What's worse is that since this is so utterly ineffective from a public safety perspective, we're more than willing to deny people their civil rights (voting, guns, etc) even after their sentence is over under the guise that it will keep them from being bad again.
It's a real convenient way to deny the vote to people, too.
Mandatory penalties are a really bad idea. Punishments should always fit the crime, not the usual severity of broadly similar crimes. Mandatory penalties work OK for minor things with minor penalties, where frequency and relevent similarity is high, like parking tickets for example.
25 years in prison should never be a mandatory punishment, especially not when set by politicians who are liable to be interested in making political capital out of public hysteria. Common or recommended punishment for certain things perhaps, but a judge should always have the ability to allow for the exceptions - wether it be stricter or lighter than usual.
This is a two-parter. First off, let's stop incarcerating people for victimless, non-violent crimes. Keep the drug offenders, etc. out of the prison system. That should free up some room. Next, based on how likely or unlikely it is for a particular type of offender to repeat, base the sentence on that. For instance, the rates of recedivism for sex offenders is very high. Not including the poor schmuck that took a piss at the wrong time, but for those that WILL offend again, keep them in prison. If they're sick and we can't cure them, they should not be given the opportunity to commit another crime. Maybe this means something other than prison. Penal coloney perhaps? If some of these people are truly sick and unable to stop themselves in the long run, the humane answer is to keep them being able to commit their crimes again.
RFID's must be read very close to the source. GPS devices can be reached from space.
AND
If I was a criminal and wanted to avoid being caught the last thing I would do is attach a tracking device to myself before I go and commit a crime. Even if I could clone someone else's number that's still a *bad* idea.
TODO create witty sig.
of morally differentiating between various crimes? Do you not find that the difference in the damage done between say a thief and a child molester warrants different treatment? Do the objective studies showing an incredibly high recidivism rate for sex offenders not impact how you view this?
Based on your side not and making guesses about your opinions -- are you also as opposed to euthanasia due to the same types of concerns in regards to where it will stop?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
The GOP has overwhelming imbalance in Congress. National ID bill went to Senate without debate. Bush is poised to load federal and Supreme courts with right wing appointees. Bush et al. seriously attempted to revoke living wills. Etc. Once IDs are in place, what would prevent gradual phase in of RIFD on them, first for sex offenders, then foreigners, etc.
I can't believe that otherwise intelligent people would fall for this. This punishment really assumes one thing: that our Justice System is perfect. It is not (I still believe it works more often than not). What happened to letting the guilty go free so that the innocent do not suffer? What happened to being innocent until proven guilty? What happened to doing your time and being given a second chance? The more I see the direction of the US the more I want to move to Russia where at least they're up front about needing papers (sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired). Here's a little thought experiment,
You and your girlfriend have had a fragile relationship. Fighting is common, and you've had enough. You want out of the relationship. You break up with her. Being an unscrupulous person, she decides she wants revenge (No one dumps her). In a month, you're served with a warrant for your arrest. The charge is attempted rape. You fail your lie detector test because you're hurt and angry but lie detectors are accurate right, right? You don't have the money to mount an adequate defense, and the public defender is overloaded with work and underpaid. The state has plenty of money, and a political agenda of fighting sex crime. The politicians use scare tactics on the public to get a vote. "I'll make you safe, just vote for me" is the slogan of the day. The other slogan is "I've already voted and passed laws that make you safe, sex offenders have no where to run if you vote for me." (If you think something like this can never happen to you, I hope it never does).
Just think about it for a moment. Not all people who are in Jail are guilty. Life for someone that was once in jail is already difficult. I'm not a bleeding heart, but they are already paying for their crime, even after they've done their time. Laws like this do nothing to protect anyone. They're doing it to get a vote. I know there are people out there who are evil. Evil people should be punished, but don't use the same blanket to cover everyone. That is just the first step to a draconian society. In short, stop drinking the Kool Aid.
No one has ever been defeated in a US election for being too hard on sex offenders or drug users. I am no great defender of either, but I am real sick of the transparent a$$-kissing from the politicians. I am actually at the point where I get nauseous when I witness such obvious pandering. If sex offenders remain a threat upon release, why are they being released. At some point someone will need to fix the system. This is like applying a work-around patch to software.
Angleyne: You can't bend that girder - it's unbendable! Bender: Well I don't know anything about lifting, so that ju
Track down the sex offender using the supplied coordinates and send in the license plate number!
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I know that it's very easy to target sex offenders because we neither understand them nor do we wish to. But at some point, you have to say enough is enough. This country is moving more and more toward a zero redemption policy for criminals and is making it easier and easier to become one. It seems we are content to create a permanent criminal class and to work constantly to segregate them from ourselves. Soon 1 in 100 Americans will be in prison. Does anyone feel safer for this?
Slightly off topic, but consider this also: With the passing of the lastest revision to Bankruptcy laws, people will find it even harder to free themselves from the debt they are too easily enticed into because they are brought up in a school system that doesn't offer an education in money management. When these people cannot pay their debts, they will become either literal wage slaves or criminals. How far are we from bringing back debtors prisons?
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Though they probably don't get up out of their chairs so.....might not be worth it.
anyone got pix?
Shouldn't let it bug me but it is. Over half the highly modded comments in this thread are like this one. The article says nothing about doing this to 'sex offenders' in general.
The article states that this law applies to '...people convicted of certain sex crimes against children 11 and younger...'
I like your idea that such people be incarcerated until cured - of course what that means in the vast majority of these cases is a life sentence with no parole. How economically feasible is that?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Honestly, the last thing I want to know is whether a child molester is on my block, GPS, Gmail, or otherwise. I don't want him there in the FIRST PLACE!
If there's a child molester on my block, my conclusion is the Criminal Justice system has Failed to Do its Job. Doesn't anyone remember that the killer who inspired Megan's Law had warned people that if he was let out of prison he would do it again? They let him out anyway!
So, how does knowing where he's at help us? The police puts on the tracker and they're done with it. The rest of us have 3 choices: (1) live with him on the block, (2) move, or (3) burn his house down like the old mill at the end of Frankenstein. Oh wait, isn't that basically a lynching?
If a sex-offender is rehabilitated, I don't need to know of his past. It's past. If he's NOT rehabilitated, he should never be back on the streets, ever.
But how to tell the difference when the jails are overcrowded with non-violent drug offenders and we have to make room?
Well, I'm sure it takes hard work, but that's why we pay these damned taxes, isn't it? Put the brightest minds on it? Affirmative steps to solve the problem? Oh, wait! All our tax money's going to Iraq and Saudi Oil Princes and Republican pork projects... we have to track sex-offenders ON THE CHEAP the way we send Marines to Iraq with NO ARMOR. There's nothing left, so I guess WE will have to watch out for those sex-offenders with our fancy wireless PDA's.
Why pay to keep them in prison when it's so much cheaper just to run away from them?
BEEP! BEEP! Quick, Billy, it's your handy GPS pocket sex-offender alert! Only $19.99 at Wal-Mart, jump into this dumpster until he goes away! I feel safer already!!!
Uh, no, I'm not saying that. Goddamn, how do you manage to walk and breathe at the same time?
Most people who call for criminals to be freed (give them LIBERTY, wha wha wha) tend to not think or care about where they go or what they do (or even why they were in prison to begin with). You want to give them liberty? Fine, you can put them up till they find other lodgings.
In addition to the proposed GPS tagging of sex offenders. Institute forehead tattoos. They can say something like IAACSO(I am a convicted sex offender) #
Cheaper and more permanent and efficient than electronic tagging.
Along with this system, enforce that all "children" under the legal age be required at all times while outside their homes to wear a T-shirt/Headband/Wristband with an embedded RFID tag which clearly denotes that they are a minor.
Make it a felony for kids to be out of their homes without said tags.
The next logical step would be to institute the same for murderers. When all the sex offenders and murderers have been successfully tagged, we can proceed onto thieves, adulterers, gluttons, sloths..etc.
You realize I'm joking right? This is such a stupid proposal, you've got to wonder if Jeb or Cheney started a GPS tracker company.
I'm not a sex offender and this would track people not an ip address.
So how does this pertain to my rights online?
As a society, we need to not accept this and either put these people in jail for life, put these people to death or track them with technology. Obviously tracking them is the most "human" thing to do. As a father of two children, I have no remorse for sexual predators.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Almost everyone who commits a crime is at risk to commit the same or a similar crime again. For those who have learned their lesson, the risk is actually lower than someone who has not committed a crime before. For others, particularly those "warehoused" in jail without any rehabilitation, it is higher - in many cases, much higher - do the words "hardened criminal" mean anything to you?
Healthy young and middle-aged male sex offenders who are not in some kind of treatment program are statistically at an elevated risk of re-offending. Ones too old or infirm to have a libido to speak of, those who are in a sex-offender treatment program and taking it seriously, and some others are at no higher a risk than the average person, and do not require such supervision.
IMHO *ALL* felons, from sex offenders to spammers to murders to Tyco execs, should be under some form of supervision the first few years after they are released if there is an elevated risk of committing the same or a similar crime. IF they are at an elevated risk of harming others compared to someone with no similar criminal record, their potential victims need to be notified. In the case of corporate executives, this means their employers and anyone trusting them with money. In the case of child-sex offenders, it means parents in the locality they live or travel in. In the case of spammers, it means anyone giving them outbound email access.
In ANY case, once the original sentence plus parole or probation is served, if the person is at such an elevated risk for re-offending that a simple discharge would endanger public safety, frequent - at least annual if not quarterly - civil-committment-like hearings, with a jury, should be held to take into account changes in personality and other factors that may lower - or raise - the level of monitoring required. Monitoring may include local or regional sex-offender-like public notification, ankle bracelets, "convicted DUI"-like bumper stickers, and the like. Some states handle mentally ill who are a danger to themselves or others by using civil-committment procedures. Others use the system to keep very-high-risk convicted sex offenders behind bars. The frequent hearings are necessary because you are restricting a person's liberty not for what he has done in the past but for what he is - if the jury beleives you - is likely to do in the near future.
Another solution, for felony crimes that take place in the future, is to have all felons serve mandatory probation for life, with the possibility of early discharge if the Governor President approves. If you are planning on embezzeling a corporation or raping a child or spamming, and don't like the thought of being on probation for life, don't do the crime. Such a system could not apply retroactively though.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
How do they expect this to work exactly?
This is just another instance of "We didn't do enough before so we are compensating by going way over board now." (see Calif 3-strikes) As other posters have already pointed out Sex offenders can range from a trip to the bar with a fake ID to a full on Uncle Ernie (Tommy). This law is just asking to get thrown out so that legislatures can cry that they are trying but the bad courts keep interfering. Here's a suggestion: Why don't you try to inact good laws that make sense? Think on the matter long and hard, you just might make a lasting impact and prevent future occurances.
NO MORE STUPID LEADERS!!!
"First they tracked the sex offenders and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a sex offender..."
The article states that this law is specifically talking about tracking adults convicted of molesting children under 11 years old.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
So what if there is an alarm? The cops come rushing to the scene and find what? They find a cut off tracking bracelet, that's what. And where is the sex offender that is supposed to be attached to the bracelet? Yea, they don't have any idea either.
Think about it, if you were being tracked by technology, any technology, could you not figure out a way to defeat it? Now think if you were a criminal, would the criminality of defeating the tracking stop you from doing it?
... to put explosive collars around their necks that can be triggered in a restricted zone, rather than tracking the offenders?
8==8 Bones 8==8
This is surely one of those slippery slopes that we do not want to go down. I am a father and certainly can understand the horror of what happened in the case that motivated this law. But, this country used to have a principal whereby if you were convicted of a crime, you served your time and then were allowed re-enter society to become a productive member of society. Recently, there has been a competition to see who can impose the harsher punishments, and who can be the least forgiving. All in the name of preventing abuse and molestation of children. But, why should we stop with those individuals who have been convicted. Let's monitor anyone who has been arrested in association with an investigation of alleged molestation or child abuse. Even better, lets just monitor EVERYONE. We have the technology. And, surely the only people who wouldn't want their location known are those with something to hide. We could even solve most problems with this single solution... if we know where everyone is, and when they are there, we will far more quickly solve all crimes, and prevent terrorism. Sounds like the perfect solution, doesn't it?
I'll also suggest that for government leaders who profess to be strict adherents of the Christian faith, this is surely a most un-Christian solution.
A lot of people are complaining that this is anti-liberty, anti-freedom, 1984, etc. I don't know the details of this bill, so I can't comment on whether or not it's a good bill. I agree with many people that the term "sex offender" has been watered down to the point that what in our society is normal sexual behaviour, is illegal in some states and some people have been convicted of things that most people would not apply the "sexual offender" label to. However, the law still does. For, those offenses, this bill doesn't make sense.
In fact, I think most criminal indiscretions should not be treated this way. However, there is a class of "sexual offender" that has proven to be virtually incapable of avoiding committing their convicted offense again and again. That is the class of child molestation. This is not the 17 year old with the fake id type, but the pedophile with a 7 year old child type. Personally, I think those people should get a life sentence without parole. However, some people argue (despite overwhelming statistics to the contrary) that these people can be rehabilitated. I don't have a problem tracking these people for the rest of their life.
Which should be punished more, a schoolyard bully who beats up a classmate for his sneakers, or a man who beats up another man for his shoes?
I don't think the issue of the main thread is the chronological age of the victim but rather his perceived vulnerability. Kids 12 and older are perceived, usually correctly so, as being much more able to take care of themselves and make decisions than kids under 11.
In my state, the laws give statuatory-rape protection to minors of all ages, including the mentally retarded and senior citizens who have guardians. They give extra protection in the form of stiffer sentences against sexual assault from guardians and caretakers.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You'd have to give up going to sporting events altogether.
I imagine a lot more people might be in support if they realized that it only applies to people who have been convicted of raping 11 year olds (or younger).
I don't know if the law is any good really, the idea is not bad but it sounds technically infeasable and I'm not sure would really help anything. Can you really tracksomeone for life? It just seems like it's almost impossible, even if it's a good idea.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Tracking them, thats just psycho, just imagine i raped a girl or two here and there, i dont need no freekin fed trackin me everywhere i go, after all lets say i did it and i got punished for it then i'm free. But when i'm free I should remain free, free shouldnt mean half-assed free, and free shouldn't mean 'guised' as free, free should mean free. Now if you want to keep these sex offenders from doing their dirty little crimes, or big crimes i should say, i find them repulsive, then stick them in jail for at least 20 fucking years and them give them psychological counseling mandatory afte they are let until they are fit enough not to fondle with little girls dresses. Basically what i am saying is free for one should be free for all, and fix the fucking get 5 years and out on parole system. Technology can't solve stupidity
If that's what it takes to make the public feel safer in their beds, then, I'm sure some politician somehwere would love to make it so...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I think this falls under "Cruel and Unusual Punishment"
The problem being, of course, that children are twice as likely to be molested at government schools than at home.
In the Spartan Agoge we just call that "building good citizens".
I don't know, I think you just proved the parent's point. You argue the logical path- which is that these prisoners are not valuable to society and should be kept away from society forever and ever.
Fine.
But "death is an easy way out for these people"? One, why does it matter? What do you gain by knowing someone is miserable in jail? I thought the point was to keep them away from others- killing them accomplishes this, no? And two, isn't that statement a very ironic example of fetishing the punishment aspect?
Personally, I don't believe in life imprisonment. Seems like a total and absolute waste. The pragmatic side of me says that if you've acknowledged that someone has transgressed so badly that they can never rejoin society, then keeping them imprisoned is a waste of effort. Again, putting them to death makes more sense.
All that being said, I'm not necessarily a proponent of the death penalty either, mostly because we have a big government that makes a lot of mistakes. But the whole "you've been naughty! Punishment time!" seems so juvenile. If people can't live in society, retool them in such a way that they can. Or else make it so that they're not society's problem any more.
Yes, I'm feeling evil today. I'm only being a -little- sardonic. =)
It's not what you know, or even who you know- It's how many people recognize your damn
If I read your post right, you seem to be implying that anyone who *can* think is non-liberal.
If thinking for yourself is the same as being conservative, why is it that (we) conservatives spend so much energy telling others how to behave (E.g. No abortions. Go to church. Don't be gay.)?
Conservatives: We're always *RIGHT*.
I've got a GPS for these people. It's called a headstone.
I believe that is because sex offenders are more likely to be repeat offenders more than a murderer again.
Well, there is still the concept of innocent until proven guilty, and much like a stock, past performance isn't indicative of future action.
That having been said, as far as I'm concerned, there *are* certain crimes that, once performed, should wind up basically branding somebody for life. But that requires human judgement, and that's where the problem comes in. I don't have a better solution, I'm afraid.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
...by how a society is treating its criminals. Does not look good for us, does it?How about we aim our money and efforts on reducing the number of people who want to kill or commit sex crimes?
The tracking law does not look too bad for an average American; I am pretty sure that many people like to have convicts locked up somewhere far away. What is going to happen when an average American is a convict? Ever thought of that? How about tagging all the citizens in order to prove that one was innocent during the crime? Now, that's a thought! And if you're not tagged, then you should be guilty until proven otherwise just because nobody was aware of your location.
If you go fuck around with a kid, that's what you get. I like knowing that known perverts have at least some restriction on them.
This makes it far too easy for big-game hunters to find them.
Why not make a law requiring all males to have their genitals tatooed with a barcode.
This way females by using a hand-scanner can easily identify who they are getting too close to.
Of course - in the dark - you may have to swipe more than once for a good result.
(Sorry - to good to pass up)
"Under God, indivisible, with LIBERTY and justice for ALL"
Quoting the pledge of allegiance (not a real law mind you) is considered insightful in this discussion??
The Constitution specifically says when Liberty can be taken from someone. Ammendment 5 says that one cannot be "deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"
So yeah- Liberty and Justice for all unless you are convicted of a crime in which case you forfeit the Liberty part in order to fulfill the Justice part.
One more reason to save sex for the confines of marriage.
Whether you agree with the moral implications or not, you have to admit it has it's advantages.
Flame shield ON
Where did I call on criminals to be freed? I just quoted the pledge of allegience.
You can't just assume I meant that. (and i really didn't)
Even if I did, your point is strange. No logical process would flood the gates of prisons, of say, drug dealers if they were offered amnesty, without dealing with the issue of making sure they have a place to live and helping them get a job if they like, just as is done in the current justice system.
Moreover, if they are freed, and no longer criminals, then it's not really your business what they do anyways.
A man who has served his time is no longer a criminal, ergo, he should have the same liberties given by the government as all other citizens.
But then, this is just a misunderstanding, as you took my point far too extreme for this context.
"I only speak the truth"
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Let's GPS-track the white-collar criminals. The CEO's of America who fraudulently misrepresent earnings, or hide income in offshore partnerships, etc.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
How can intelligent people possibly argue over tracking dangerous criminals in public rather than questioning why they aren't in jail?
Have Americans given up on the justice system? Do we just assume that we cannot keep criminals like sex-offenders locked up and off the streets?
So, tracking them on the outside with fancy (hackable) electronics is the best thing we can do?
Are we really that stupid???
I know where they should stick the GPS device.
Adventure City Tours
People are on the sex offender registries - usually for life - for a variety of reasons.
Some are 20 year olds who impregnated 15 year old girlfriends.
Some are high school or college students who had sex with a drunk girlfriend in violation of the law that says a drunk person can't consent.
Some are 14 year old boys who don't know how to control their own hormones so they rape their 6 year old sister.
Some rape adults.
Some are child molestors who do it for their own jollies - "kiddie rapists."
Some are pedophiles - "child lovers" - who do it because they mistakenly think the child loves them and wants sex and they love, or think they love, the child. This also applies to cases where the child really believes he or she wants to have sex with the adult, as is the case with a few male teenage victims.
Each needs a different kind of rehabilitation. The first three will probably not re-offend after age 25 because either they will be interested in legal-aged women or are past the "youthful indiscretion" of having sex with drunk women.
The rapists and child molestors come in two flavors - the true sociopaths and those that will eventually buy into societal norms. The former group is probably dangerous for life, and the only thing that will help them is fear of consequences, along with public notification in case that isn't enough. The latter group needs an ongoing treatment program much like many alchoholics find in AA.
The "child lovers" need to be convinced that their conception of a child's desire for sex is mistaken, and that it is more loving to stay out of a kid's pants. Until that time, they fit into the same category as child molestors. Once they buy into this, they are no longer dangerous.
The biggest problem to deciding how to separate "curable" and "treatable" sex offenders from those who aren't is that people lie and people can be fooled. Even 1 out of 10 "false positives" of "cured" or "in treatment and not dangerous" sex offenders means for every 9 who are allowed to resume normal lives, 1 is let out on the streets unmonitored who is a danger to society. Compare this to the estimated 1 out of 1000 people out there who have never been convicted of a sex crime but will commit one later in life.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
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Applause? Hey don't complain to me; my previous Lesbian Strapon Porn posts were being modded mostly Informative and Insigtful: let us not venture into any more technical discussions when none is willing. Until the ontopic story arrives, be well. Dr. Dean aDildo, BS., MSH., WD40.
I like that idea, too; jail as a form of rehabilitation instead of a form of inadequate and expensive punishment.
I like your idea that such people be incarcerated until cured - of course what that means in the vast majority of these cases is a life sentence with no parole. How economically feasible is that?
Well, if we release all those people who are in jail for nothing more than possession of pot (not even with intent to sell, just posession), we'd have more than enough cash freed up for this sort of thing.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
The proposed law mandates lifetime GPS monitoring of pedophiles - and probation GPS monitoring for the others. So, if you are a 26y guy that got nailed for dating a 17y old girl (she could have looked older in that bar), you are now a registered sex offender, you will have to wear the bracelet for some time after leaving the jail, you will have to register with the local police whenever changing address. Your name will be available in registry for every public person that may be concerned.
Cheerio.
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
You make a very valid point, but the 25-year-minimum applied to victims under 11.
Still, you don't want an early-bloomer 11 year old who could pass for 15 telling an 18 year old she's 15, especially in you are in a state where 15/18 is legal under the "Romeo and Juliet" exception.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I'm glad thay people like the 17 year old who decides to have sex with his 15 year old girlfriend after the school dance then her parents decide to press statutory rape charges isn't affected by this.
I think tracking habitual child molesters is a great idea. Studies show time and time again that they cannot be rehabilitated.
I meant to say that this is a great idea. I was thinking of something else when I was writing the subject line!
But this technology makes lynching so much easier! It'd be almost impossible to kill the wrong person by accident.
When it was found that a paedophile had moved into Newport in Wales some of the local people went out and found out who it was.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm
With a GPS tracking system they could have got the right person with absolute certainty.
Deleted
Most states have "degrees" on sex laws.
In most states, you have at least 2 age ranges - "kiddie victims" and "teen victims." Teen victims are typically a less-severe felony than "kiddie victims." Most states also have "Romeo and Juliet" laws so if the two lovers are close in age it's either not a crime or a much-less-serious one, perhaps the equivalent of a traffic ticket.
Most states also differentiate between penetrative and non-penetrative offenses.
"Kiddie victims" age limit is usually 10-14, "teen victim" age limit is usually 16-18.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
" Because sex offenders can't be cured! "
This is a myth. Every one of these curing methods would work on a sex offender.
Must I always explain.
My point, which didn't get across to well, is that the government, once done punishing someone, should treat them as a normal civilian, not some sort of 3/5 civilian just because they were once a criminal.
I don't care whether this is sex offenders or drug dealers, or monkey importers.
Moreover, the constitution protects us from cruel and unusual punishment, which for this would probably be in most cases once parole is over.
"I only speak the truth"
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You think that being a dissident or a "brown immigrant" (whatever that is) is the same as being a pederast?
Man, you're pretty fucked up.
Carthago delenda est!
...in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another...
Many factors affect recidivism rates for violent criminals.
These include
age - older adults are at much less risk than younger ones,
what-have-you-got-to-lose, adults with families and stable jobs are at much less risk than others
rehabilitation opportunities - those who are taking rehab seriously are at a much lower risk than those who aren't or those who do not have the opportunity to be in a good rehab program.
Even absent the last two, a person who violently attacks someone and is locked up for at least 10 years and until age 40 will on average be at significantly lower risk by virtue of age alone.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
k thx
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
What he did was sign it. The legislature passes bills in the state of Florida. Get your headlines straight before you post.
Too lazy to create a sig...
It's for a next-generation game where you aim your space-laser to destroy the dots on the surface of a dominately blue sphere. While still in beta it is believed prisons will become less crowded as a positive side-effect, certainly once GPS-tagging of a broader array of offenders gets more acceptable.
Future plans include 3D dots.
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
There is a big differnce here:
during probation != for life
We track criminals for the duration of their probationary period, but after that they are no longer tracked. This is part of the probation system. Basically, we let a well behaving convicted criminal out of jail early, with the caveat that he is not really a "free" citizen yet, and he must still report his whereabouts for the remaining duration of his sentance.
This system would track a criminal for the rest of his life. Potentially, for a long time after their proscribed punsihment has expired. While I agree that jail time is the wrong solution for the type of people this law targets, we still need to make sure that we are not allowing civil rights to be eroded on this front. Tell me, what's to stop this type of law being passed for "rapists and other violent criminals"? People would probably go for it. But tell me, what all is included in that "other violent criminals" bit? Do you really want a government deciding who it gets to track forever? Have you ever read 1984, Brave New World, Farienheit 451, or better yet, a little bit of history? Just because we claim to be a free and open society, doesn't mean we can't follow the path of Rome into imperialism.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
And you know it, because he's bad and he knows it.
Don't you call me fat, portly, or stout; let me tell you once again, he's bad.
And to think, there is only one logical solution to child molesters that doesn't require all the surveilance costs; put him in a room full of real Christians, real Muslims, real Jews, real budhists, and afterwards drop him off near some Hell's Angels in the middle of Sturgis : the Christians will fix his nose, the Jews will take all his money, the Muslims will fix him to be a Eunuch and teach him how to deal with his ex-wife Debbie, the Budhists will teach him to eat properly so he won't look like a bulimiac, the Krishnans will fix his skin disorder, and the Hell's Angels will most-likely lynch him anyway no matter what he looks like.
But dispite all the contentions, I want to know the answer to the Adams family discussion; What about -- Debbie!!!!???? I think she'll get the best of Michael Jackson before anyone else. Why? Because she's graceful and delicate!
When you make an arguement about "violent offenders" be sure to define violence clearly.
I assume that since you said "violent sexual offenders" you agree that not all sexual offenses are violent.
Some would disagree - they would say that because someone is "violated" then it is a violent act. That's fine, and if that's what you meant, please say so.
Personally, I think in this context violence equates with the use of force against a person or a threat to do the person physical or other harm or other extortion. What some Catholic Priests did to altar boys, while felonious, was not violent.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
When they put the transponders on the sex offenders I didnt care because I wasnt one. When they put teh transponders on the thieves I didnt care because I wasnt one. When they put the transponders on the junkies I didnt care because I wasnt one. When they put the transponders on the black people I didnt care because I wasnt one.
When they came for me, there was noone left to help.
look at the bright side you can interface your location with google maps :).
... are more offended by sex than anything else.
I was going to post a link to the Onion article
"Study: Most Self-Abuse Goes Unreported."
But it turns out you have to be an Onion premimum subscriber to access the content.
I thought it was one of the their funniest articles.
The legislative branch.
... Plans to move Neverland Ranch to Florida have been cancelled. Mr. Jackson was not available for immediate comment.
True, pedophiles who do not get treatment specific to their condition do have a relatively high risk of recidivism.
Those that do get treatment have a significantly lower risk, perhaps lower than the average ex-con.
As I said elsewhere in this thread, all discharged felons should be evaluated for dangerousness, and if they are a lot more dangerous than your average citizen, they should be monitored to the degree necessary to compensate for that danger, and no more, but only as long as necessary and no longer.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
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8 porn videos.
3 sex toys.
12 issues of playboy magazine.
28 love dolls.
69 Mozart records.
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Strike her fast and often! Don't stop until she cries!
Faster, my wee bunny. It's a shame you lost your carrot, have mine.
Please, your majesty, I bid you move Faster or you'll get the royal hose!
Yeah! I knew you like a baker knows bread! Hmph yeah!
Fuck Yeah, Yeah, Yeah! If it don't go in, make it go in!
Feel the burning sensation!
I think you want to slow down a little. ok.
How does this feel now?
And this?
You need some tender submission to the cause.
Have a quick rest before we continue.
Now, let's go deep!
Mini-me's wife isn't invited to our party.
There is only one way on this highway.
And it'll be a long ride before someone makes me stop posting Lesbian Strapon porno on slashdot.org. Until then, you all can suffer.
Applause? Hey don't complain to me; my previous Lesbian Strapon Porn posts were being modded mostly Informative and Insigtful: let us not venture into any more technical discussions when none is willing. Until the ontopic story arrives, be well. Dr. Dean aDildo, BS., MSH., WD40.
As yet, I am but an acolyte.
Yeah, right.
Because the rate of recidivism for violent sex offenders is nearly 100%, which means that they will almost certainly rape or murder someone it the future.
You know I thought it was really high, too, but according to these myths and facts about sex offenders, the majority of sex offenders do NOT reoffend. Also, I was very surprised to read that sex offenders are less likely to reoffend than non-sex offenders.
On the flip side, there's this analysis of multiple studies which reports some pretty high recidivism rates for various types of sex offenders.. and really demonstrates how complicated it is when factoring in the type of crime, and especially the extreme underreporting of sex crimes. I suspect that the overall lower rate is probably because of the underreporting and the grouping of all sex crimes together.
But in any case, I don't think your "nearly 100%" number can be substantiated. The biggest numbers in the studies analyzed, showed 52% of child molesters facing rearrested (not necessarily convicted) within a 25 year period. Oh, and Exhibitionists had a very high recidivism rate (41%-71%).
As a side note, people who are released from prison early and wear tracking systems have been deemed safe enough to be released, and unlikely to reoffend -- otherwise they wouldn't have been released early. What they're talking about here, is using it for people who have already served out their entire sentences.
This starts to sound like the probies in the Uplift universe from David Brin. I hope we get to start uplifting the chimps and dolphins soon. I wonder what the Tymbrimi will look like.
I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
The goal of "treating" gays was to "make them straight."
The goal of treating pedophiles is not to "make them not be pedophiles" but rather to get them to obey society's rules.
Frankly, I don't care of someone looks at his 6 year old next-door neighbor and thinks about going to bed with her - what goes on in a person's head is their business - I only care if he tries to get her into his bed. Successful treatment will either give him the mental tools to not take that second step AND the willingness to use those tools, or if that won't work, give him the ability and willingness to stay away from 6 year old girls altogether.
To put it another way - I've looked at married women and thought about taking them to bed, but because I respect society's rules, I "won't go there." If I could not do that, I would make sure I was never alone with a married woman - ever. A law abiding pedophile will do the same, either stay out of a girl's pants or never be alone around them. A successfull treatment program will turn a formerly-lawbreaking pedophile into a law-abiding one.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Its more like "Go under tree, lose GPS signal'". The GPS signal is so particular to reception that this application is a joke. Whats far more likely is a cellular phone network (or similar) implementation where a simple low power transceiver can both triangulate position considering base stations are well known, AND report the position in real time. GPS is horribly inadequate for both of these needs, to the point where I suspect many people use it as a buzzword or cliche term and have no idea what it really means.
You know, I wondered how often something like that happened. I'm sure it wasn't an issue twenty years ago when you needed expensive equipment and your own chemical lab to make porn (yeah, yeah, darkroom chemicals are simple; they're still not trivial, and they leave evidence a little harder to dispose of than JPEGs.) But I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg; there's got to be quite an underground economy in self-produced child pornography. And while it's creepy, I don't think laws sending folks to "pound me in the ass" federal prison were intended for these kids, or the people they tell that they're 'eighteen, honest, I swear, for real'.
I think they were intended more for completely legitimate but thoroughly unsettling sites like this. (Seriously. It's set up exactly like a fucking pornsite.) Which coincidentally, is utterly legal. Funny, huh?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
...can we put a GPS tracking unit on the cop cars? That would seem to have less of a legal hurdle (mr police officer doesn't want everyone to know where he is? fine, you can take a desk job) and now the public can see where these cops are hanging out.
The other benefit is maybe these lazy cops (I'm not saying ALL cops are lazy but the few that are really ruin the image of the good ones) will start patrolling if they think they are being watched.
Hopefully the new public web page tracking the local PD doesn't get referenced WinchellsDonuts.com!!! ("Our store is right next to the 5 X's on the map")
I think this is a bit extreme. The offenders went to jail, paid fines, and probably have to register themselves with such laws as Meghans law. But you know what, a tracking device (unwanted) is a violation of privacy and every FREE citizen deserves a right to privacy.
Now if they want to implement this to people on probation, I would have no problem with this as people on probation must remain within a certain locale. Sex offenders are not under the same requirement. Also, I believe (barring the company itself) a former sex offender CAN legally work say at a school, daycare, etc...but usually they cant get these jobs as parents would have a fit (rightfully so).
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Please don't take this as flame bait. There is more to it than that.
I have two daughters. One was sexually assaulted.
What this politician is suggesting is i my opinion totally and utterly an attemt to assassinate common decency. I find it revolting.
First of all I think that rape is a dumm word and the sentences for rape are equally stupid. There should be no "rape". There is only one thing: Assault. An act of violating another human being against the other persons will.
Be it for sexual reasons or for money or any other reason.
Maintaining the word rape in my opinion creates the aura of mysticism around this subject. It shows that many females have difficulties dealing with the experience and I believe (although I am not female) it is because there is this artificial destiction between rape and assault.
That you convict somebody of rape does more than just that. It creates a victom of rape. And this seems to often create a very slow healing process.
Call it what it is: Assault. Period. Nobody likes to be mugged for whatever reason. And both genders can relate to it with no difficulties.
And I really don't see that any substantially part of the female victom has been damaged anymore than if somebody put a gun to my head: As long as I survive with my body intact - I am the surviver.
If females are still judged by their virginity instead of their personality and intellect - then shame on those who do so.
Doing what this politician is doing he is putting a constant reminder out there to delay the healing process. Revenge is always empty. You think you want it - but it is not a reward. It is just you doing the same thing that was done to you.
If you really think surveillance is nescessary - then these people belong in an institution to be released when the psychiatrists say so. Don't make the society a parkinglot.
So really - I see this as just another attemp to gain control. The goal to be total control. Massive surveillance units. Administrations. Kings.
Use the money that you save by not doing this to help all victoms of assault. Males or females.
Why not just use a cheap and effective red "C" (for Chester the molester) tattoed on the forehead?
Ok, YOU pick the letter then. I vote for C but I'm not stuck on it or anything. I just don't want my taxes going to pay to track a bunch of sexual predators around town. Snip or tattoo them and be done with it. Better yet, do both. I want kids someday and I don't see any ethical or moral obligation towards the welfare of those types of people. They cause actual HARM, and it makes no sense to treat them the same way we treat Martha Stewart during her house arrest (for example.)
There's no genetic test for pedophiles like there is for some other diseases, not yet anyways.
The penile plethysmograph is somewhat useful but it has a lot of false positives:
If you had 1000 healthy male volunteers and 1000 otherwise-healthy known pedophiles undergo this test while looking at similar-posed children and adult, you would find the pedophiles as a group rating "more pedophile" than the control group. However, a lot of the control group would still register as "pedophile" and a number of the pedophiles would register as "non pedophile," making the tool pretty much useless to determine if someone is a pedophile or not.
Unfortunately idle legislators have long been on a muddying binge so now if some young adult being pestered by exhuberant pre-teens in a swimming pool happens to playfully deal with one with less than perfect care as to where their hand might grab, they can find themselves accused of "statuatory rape".
Just back from the big house, then?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Sorry about your son though. I guess I'm lucky. I was once caught doing the same thing but the cops just let me off with a friendly "why don't you just fuck off and pee on private property instead". (I was peeing on public property in the UK.)
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
How about the good old idea of knowing where your daughters are!!! and walking them to school!! what happened to that?
Maybe its because mommy also works. Shocking!
In many states, very-high-risk sex offenders who are near the end of their jail terms can be "tried" the same means that some mentally ill people are:
A special "civil" jury determines that they are a danger to others, and they are put in a mental hospital for a few months or years until the next scheduled hearing.
These courts are supposed to provide the "least restrictive environment" which can vary from a maximum-security hospital to 24-hour monitoring by ankle bracelet to a requirement that the person take anti-sex-drive drugs and actively participate in a treatment program.
I don't know if it's ever been done, but in theory, a state could provide for such hearings for people who have never committed a crime: For example, if a person told his psychiatrist "next week my 12 year old neice is coming to visit and I'm going to make a baby with her." Under current laws the doctor would report it and the neice would no doubt not visit, but the person would not be institutionalized. However, this person may be a much greater danger than some of the "high risk/worst of the worst" people who are coming out of prison.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Sure, because that would keep the CEO's out of your daughter or little sisters room.
Sex offenders aren't "white collar" criminals for a reason. They leave a kind of tragedy in their wake your obviously either not sensitive to or not familiar with.
Quack, quack.
Oh really and what were those super accurate studies that you read? Which type of "sex offender" did the study look at - pedophiles, ephebophiles, rapists, exhibitionists, statutory rapists, opportunistic molestors, people who pee in public, people who have consensual sex in public, "sodomites"? Were these "sex offenders" male, female, self-identifying or clinically diagnosed? Links please.
If you look at people who have a disorder (e.g. obsessive compulsive, hording, anorexia, alcoholism) you see that it's very difficult to cure the disorder entirely. Many are rooted to a degree in an obsessive compulsive type dissorder. Many disorders are simply treated at the symptom level. Provide some therapy in combination with medication in order to treat individual symtoms. Thus a pedophile, one who gets consistent sexual arousal when looking at pre-pubescent and cannot sustain arousal when looking at an adult, can have symptoms treated and appear normal as well as behave normally.
Much like an alcoholic. Alcoholics are either genetically predisposed to drinking or become alcoholics because of emotional issues. Many alcoholics will say "once an alcoholic always and alcoholic". This doesn't mean that they can't stop their behavior (with some help) and become productive members of society. Nor does it mean that they aren't productive members of society while in the middle of their alcoholism. Nor should it mean that we should brand them in some way so that they are easily identifiable. And don't try to argue that there's a big difference between pedophiles and alcoholics. In general yes, in terms of impact on society no. How many families are ruined and how many children killed each year by an alcoholic either behind the wheel or with a weapon compared to those killed by a pedophile or other "sexual predator". How many are maimed or otherwise beaten by an alcoholic each day in the US?
What's the recidivism rate (repeat of the same type of crim) of your average convicted clinically diagnosed pedophile versus an alcoholic who's convicted of drunk driving versus someone convicted of armed robbery or B-n-E? The problem is no such numbers yet exist. The numbers provided by the DOJ itself are, in their words, limited. Only a couple of studies followed sex offenders after release and it could be said that the act of studying them changed their behavior.
I don't like this save the world through incarceration, tracking, ostracism, marking, tagging, berating, and continuing to punish after the fact. It doesn't make sense. You can't put numbers to it and show success.
Two words: PATRIOT ACT
Either society considers someone dangerous and keeps them in prison - or it considers them not dangerous, or not dangerous anymore, and lets them be free. There is no compromise in between... and let me tell you, a lot of people would rather die than know they'll be tracked for life every second of the day... I'm not personally for death penalty for various reasons, but I think in this case, such a tracking system would be akin to hypocrisy: a way of avoiding to take the responsability of killing someone (death penalty) and still depriving them of the very essence of their humanity.
And I'm not even talking about justice mistakes, technology reliabilty, and so on... a lot can be said. Again, I'm not actually for death penalty, but I say, if you're going to go this far, just cut the crap (and the costs), get some balls, take your responsibilities and kill the guy already...
While I don't see any problem with tracking sex offenders and other criminals with GPS systems, I do find a problem with the system itself. ... is a sickness. And for anyone who would like to argue this, answer this first, what "normal", "sane" person would do these things? Now, if it is some sort of "sickness", what is longer jail times going to do? These people need a) help, and b) lose their balls, either by chemical or surgical castration.
#1 There's a reason why they need to be tracked, because they can't be trusted. If they can't be trusted, why are they out on the streets?
#2 I believe, that being a sex offender/child molester/rapist etc
I'm sorry to say it but I'm amazed by the support for this in these comments.
...) who do pose a threat to members of a society. But the question here for me is when are you willing to label a person as such (and not how you then handle him or her). I personally feel that a lot of people want to join the mass and throw the rocks as soon as possible, thereby denying that the offender is a human being too.
"Punishment should be harder", "sex offenders should be shot", etc. is all that there seems to be said.
So suddenly the law system is not good enough anymore?
Does everybody think that the way sentances are set up (the 'more evil' the crime, the 'heavier' the punishment) was pulled out of a hat and needs to be fixed?
100 years ago the same crimes existed with the same impact as they have today.
Warning: nasty example below
Apparently in the view of people here it's better to *kill* a little girl and *then* have sex with the corpse (dead girls don't say no) then letting her live in the first place.
Something is fundamentally wrong with that thought.
Scarred for life, possibly, but STILL HAVING A LIFE!.
So the punishment for murder is heavier then for sex offenders, as, I think, it *should* be. Apparently it is considered that 20 years in prison without parole is heavy enough for premeditated mass murder (as it's the upper bound in my country - of course, in the US it's a bit different, but...). So you can't go over that.
So, first point:
there is an order in evilness and punishment for the crime and that is logical, and *should* remain.
Second a bit more personal note, is that to some apparently some offenses are so blatant that offenders are to be limited for life. Offenders are all of a no longer entirely free human beings and being discriminated against and no longer have the ability to redeem themselves. This is important people. For a god-loving country apparently only a minority believes that it's possible to redeem oneself as the majority thinks it isn't.
Do something wrong and have no means to redeem yourself is therefore for me denying the idea that it's possible to improve oneself. For a counry which proclaims the american dream where one *can* improve oneself, its a weird view. But to be able to redeem oneself you must serve the punishment. If the punishment is set at 20 years jailtime, the system *should* assume that it's now a 'clean sheet' (with some remarks, of course). At least, this is an idealists point of view of course, which *I* personally adhere to. As a counterargument, there are of course continuous offenders who are inherently 'evil' (or nonconformant, or
Now, from that, I personally don't feel that a 'permanent punishment' which removes personal liberties permanently and unconditionally is a good idea. At least give people a chance to improve.
Regards,
Koos
True, a pedophile is a state of being, much like being gay. Like being gay it is usually fixed. Sure, some people swing from gay to straight or vice-versa over a lifetime, and I'm sure some people swing to- or from- being a pedophile over their lives, but not many.
However, not everyone who has sex with children is a pedophile.
Some men have sex with their own daughters because they are the most "available" person around. Remove children from the house, or if a wife steps in, and the problem goes away.
Others are not attracted to chilren but rather people much younger than themselves - the 25 year old who wants to marry a 10 year old girl may, a decade later, want to marry that same now-legal 20 year old woman, and be happy as her husband 40 years later.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Today it's the bad guys. Tomorrow it'll be you.
Now that the sexual offender registry contains no date expiration
This varies by state and in some states by the offense.
Where I live juvenille sex offenders have to register for a few years, everyone else gets life, or until 2 psychiatrists are willing to stake their licenses and reputations on you being no longer a danger. Good luck finding such a doctor.
I think that before you say anything about the recent bunkruptcy law shakedown, you should read some statstics about who files for what chapters and why.
According to many financial analyst and bankruptcy lawyers (don't have links, check stats on the web and financial magazines. I think Fortune had a good one on that), most of the people who filed for chapter 7 were forced to do that by circumstances beyond their control. Healthcare expenses and job losses were two primary factors. In particular, single mothers are going to be hit the hardest. The new laws do not differentiate between debt accumulated through healthcare or childcare costs and credit card debt that one racked up at Saks 5th Avenue. There are more caveats to the law that was basically written by the industry behind credit card companies.
Before you preach, do a little research next time. And yes, god forbid if credit card companies emerge with lower profits next year.
The law will be amended, little by little, over time, to make it more and more unreasonable and socially harmful. This has happened over and over again, throughout all of American history.
As late as the last 50 years, virgin unmarried women couldn't consent to sex until they were 19 in at least one state. In that same state non-virgins could consent at 12.
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the founders.
Indentured servitude and slavery (both affronts to the modern definition of human rights) were common in the colonies. Punishments regularly included such "inhuman" sentences (by modern standards) as the stocks, the pillary, flogging, and hanging. Children were essentially property.
1. Terrorists
2. Pedophiles
3. Drug Dealers
Anytime a politician mentions any of those three, scrutinize verrrry carefully. Hardly anybody agrees that anyone from those groups should have any rights whatsover. This makes them perfect for bringing in practices and punishments that would otherwise be unacceptable. Call me a cynic, but anything that is OKed to do to them will slowly be expanded to others.
There are arguments with merit for and against this law, but so far this discussion hasn't even been related to the actual topic.
I'd like to offer a new Slashdot acronym: Grow The Fuck Up.
Quack, quack.
Serious question here.
If you meet a 17 year old American on vacation in Britain would it be legal? It seems like I remember that the age of consent there is 17.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Chemical castration is more effective than castration. Why? Because it blocks ALL testosterone. Otherwise-healthy eunichs and healthy women have some testosterone in them.
Also some people rape for power not sexual pleasure, and will offend using their fingers or a piece of wood.
I do think sex offenders should have the OPTION of chemical or physical castration if they think that will help them obey the law.
Personally, I think more than a few horny 14 year old Cassanovas could use a small dose of Depo-Provera until they learn to show more respect members of the opposite sex.
How do you track an offender when he is not in line of site with the GPS sats?
ie: in a school, or worse....
Personally, I don't think they should let someone who molesters children out EVER so this shouldn't be an issue. I've heard that this is a crime in which the perpetrator can not be rehabilitated. If that is true why let them out at all?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
I assume you mean if you molest a child under 11, not a 1-day-shy-of-18 17 year old.
What about youthful offenders? They can't be executed, but would you really give life to a 16 year old who had intercourse with his 11 year old girlfriend? What about an 11 year old who did it with his 6 year old sister?
What about the mentally retarded - a 25 year old with the mentality of an 11 year old but the hormones of an adult seduces an 11 year old girl and has sex with her, does he deserve life in prison?
By the way, I think the U.S. Supreme Court nixed the death penalty for rapists a long time ago, child-rapists included.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Of course, there are people still listed in georgia's sex crime list for sodomy who cannot get their name removed from the list even though the law was declared unconsitutional . There is no provision for removing names from the list, and frankly since the prevailing attitude is, "they're all damn perverts and deviants, who cares about them anyway." Nothing gets done. So yeah, I hope you have fun in Georgia. keep your pants on and don't have sex! it's the only way to be safe.
"The bass, the rock, the mic, the treble. I like my coffee black, just like my metal" - Mindless Self Indulgence
The article itself is short, take the 3 minutes to read it then open a real discussion.
Quack, quack.
Cities have tried that to keep sexually oriented businesses (SOBs) out of town, and the courts have taken a very dim view of it.
What MIGHT work is to limit where they can live to a few areas of town, and "conveniently" make sure those parts of town are rental properties where the landlords, on their own initiative, kick out anyone with a recent crime-against-a-person criminal history. Similar ghettoizing SOBs to land owned by an unfriendly landowner is already in use. I don't know if it's been tested or not.
Personally, I think this is a very bad idea - the best way to protect society is to make it easier, not harder, for ex-cons to hold down jobs and have something like a normal life. Doing what this city proposes merely shifts the problem to someone else's backyard.
Its not sex offenders the article is talking about, it applies to "people convicted of certain sex crimes against children 11 and younger".
Now make your 'reasoning' work.
There are plenty of arguements for and against this law, but so many of you are so far off the market its absolutely amazing.
Its not even a long article.
Quack, quack.
Because the article clearly states that the law applies "people convicted of certain sex crimes against children 11 and younger".
I know that shiny submit button is so appealing but do yourself a favor and read first. Its a short article and there are plenty of good questions, but your not even in the right time-zone.
Quack, quack.
there would be a corresponding decrease in jail time. After all, the GPS device is punishment in itself.
I see the sarcasm tags, but I respond anyway. Here is why: Which is more dangerous to you as a person who lives in society- the guy who might commit some kind of crime or the guy who already has?
My PERSONAL feelings on this are that if you commit a sex crime, fuck yes you should be tracked if you are released. And you know what, maybe that tracking device should include some kind of taser- wander out of your allowed area, zap, authorities notified, you go back to jail.
Our system has all kinds of failings with regard to sex offenders and crimes against children. Get busted for selling pot as a third offense, life. But, get convicted of raping a child, 3 years. WTF
Yes, I think there are crimes that warrant tracking for life and I don't think it violates the trackee's rights. Violation of their rights? What fucking rights did they (the criminal) violate to get thrown in prison in the first place? You rape someone, you're not just violating their rights, dude. You're fucking that person up FOR LIFE. What do they get? Do you know what kind of trauma it is to find out the person who raped you was released and that there's no way for anyone to KNOW where that person is? All they have to do is check in with a parole officer (sometimes) once a month, what are they doing the rest of the time?
Having kids, if I knew the school could go into lock down or alert when a tracked individual showed up, great.
Why don't we tag everyone? You don't need to. "Odds are everyone will commit a crime eventually" What? Where does this stat come from? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, what KIND of crime will everyone commit eventually? Does the guy who goes over his time on the parking meter fall into the same kind of criminal category that the serial murderer does? No, there are limits to this. That's why law books are so thick, someone has thought about that before and decided that the two crimes are different and warrant different punishments.
So should (and would, despite the the tinfoil hat mentality) any system of tagging convicts.
R(k)
An effective life sentence is the sort of thing that makes a criminal, a bank robber or a murderer for example, pretty desperate. They will fight pretty hard to keep from getting captured, because they know they are going to have to do some serious time.
So with something like this, or the pink license plates in Ohio or something, you've got someone who is experiencing an effective life sentence, with the desperation that goes along with that, and the great added benefit that they are out on the street.
Desperate people who have proven themselves to be dangerous and are not behind bars. Doesn't this seem like something which is going to end badly?
At the end of the day, prisoners need to be able to pay their debt to society and be reformed. It's a bad situation when we don't let them do that. I guess it comes down to whether stupid shit like this is going to prevent crimes or fuel the desperatin that leads to these sorts of crimes.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-05 -11&res=l
"Here's where you're allowed to go and here's where you're not allowed."
"Huh? Where's that then?"
"Trust me; it's there."
But the article isn't about sex offenders. Its about child molesters, in fact its about "people convicted of certain sex crimes against children 11 and younger".
There could be all sorts of problems with a system like this. Even purely technical. But every comment I see seems to be hung up on the Slashdotified synopsis and your user number is way to low for me to believe you don't know better then to go by what a Slashdot editor can distill a story to (rubbish in most cases).
Read the article and come back with a comment based on it, not timothy's ridiculously misworded short on it.
Quack, quack.
While tracking the offenders would certainly be effective, you can only track them with respect to places where children may congregate. (i.e. schools and playgrounds) But this comes nowhere near solving the problem. It would be much more effective if the children could be tracked as well. We must place similar tracking chips in children so we can see if an offender comes near them. It's the only way to be safe.
At least, that's the line of reasoning I expect, if this practice becomes widespread...
I think that it could actually be really helpful to a sex offender knowing when they are approaching an area where they aren't supposed to be and help them stay away from temptation. A green led could be lit when everything is cool, it would turn yellow and emit a tone when one gets to close to a restricted area and then emit mild electric shock once a restricted area is entered. Also a service could be offered to allow people to track the location of a sex offender as they walk around and possible when one enters the general vicinity neighborhood etc and warn parents. I don't think a name should be given just a warning and maybe a mug so people can know when they could be under threat. The police can keep track and the offenders have assistance staying out of trouble.
411 Y0UR 8453 4R3 8310NG 70 U5!! -NSA
They're far more dangerous than any annoying but relatively harmless creep with overactive hormones.
Add lawyers to the list too.
Wow, an arbitrary and randomly selected age limit! Shock, Gasp!
And the next time a 12 year old gets raped, guess what the age limit will be adjusted to? And the next time a 13 year old gets raped, guess what the age limit will be adjusted to? And the next time a 14 year old gets raped, guess what the age limit will be adjusted to? You see where I'm going here, right?
Stop and wonder why we have randomly and inconsistently selected the ages of consent across all our states, and you'll realize that its the age at which not enough people can be bothered to whine about it being too low. I figure in 10-20 years the age limit for wearing GPS for raping someone is going to be higher than the age of consent, people will have forgotten that the idea was originally proposed for young child rapists, and they'll be looking for new things to do to people who rape 11 year olds, 12 year olds, 13 year olds...
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
This whole tracking child molesters thing is absurd. No, I'm not defending these scumbags, so hear me out.
What makes a sexual offender or predator any more dangerous than a convicted murderer or rapist? Why should one have to announce their presence in a neighborhood and not live x miles from schools but not the other? Both are potentially dangerous. The murderer or rapist won't care that the girl or boy next door is 16 or 19.
Both were convicted and served their time. Period. If we're not going to track EVERYONE convicted of those types of crimes, then we should'nt be tracking any of them.
This is just as one sided as cities that post lists of the "johns" convicted of prostitution but never post a list of the prostitutes. They were both convicted; list them both.
There was just a thing on the news about the new Ohio law that gave authorities the power to arrest, try, evict, or move child molesters or predators that live within x number of miles from a school. This includes people who own their homes, and lived in these places long before the schools in question were built.
Like I said, I'm defending their actions, but I think the whole mess is too lobsided.
Its like no-one actually bothered reading the article. Your points stand, but this is ridiculous how many posters are talking about things totally unrelated to the article.
Quack, quack.
If you have access to my cell phone provider's database you can track where I am right now!
Sure, I can leave my cell phone at home, but chances are if you know where my cell phone is you know where I am.
And the cell phone needs a tower to function, so I obviously want it to track me.
How's that for invasion of privacy? What if I was required to have the cell phone for some reason. Say, because of my job?
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
These are in the U.S. Bill of Rights:
Article [IV]
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Article [VIII]
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Article [IX]
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
My religion is against taking anything akin to the mark of the beast. RFID chips used in such a manner are close enough that, unto death, I would resist the implant.
Article [I]13
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
http://www.stlplaces.com/constitution/
The bill of rights pertains to ALL citizens. That DOES include people who have been convicted of crimes. We should be thankful for that.
http://www.aclu.org/
"Why, yes, I AM a card carrying member of the ACLU." =)
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
Good luck getting the courts to agree that you can never visit a gym for the rest of your life. Try dead-reckoning someone on a treadmill who is in a building..
until the government flips this around to use on the general public? They've done this type of stuff ever since the Civil War.. Take for example Social Security Numbers..If you can find one, look for an early version of the card. It explicitly says "Not for identification". Now, go and try to open a checking account. Go and try to apply for a school. Go and try to find a job. Go and try to find an apartment to live in..
So when, I ask, will I be required to scan my non-felon hand to do any of these aforementioned activities?
Do what I say, cuz I said it.
-Meatwad
GPS units receive signals and triangulate their position using those. The thing about this is that they're entirely passive. A GPS emits absolutely no RF signal [which is why you can use them on airplanes without any worry of interference] and is thus impossible to track.
A tracking device could use GPS as a means to find its location. However, it would require the use of some other system in order to be possible to track. In other words, the wearer of the tracking device would need to send out some sort of a homing beacon before it's even possible to be tracked.
They are disturbed and have some serious issues which should be addressed in therapy while they are incarcerated.
Did your program tackle these serious issues?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
very informative
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
whats wrong with having sex with 17 yo girl? i am amazed! i do that every other day!
Deliriant isti Americani.
and then they..
This is great! Soon we will all be tracked this way! I feel so safe!
Our loving Gov. will take care of us!
They can track us with gps, force drugs on us with their mandatory psych testing "new freedom initiative", they can jail 1 in 100 of us... It is wonderfull! Isn't freedom great!
http://www.gasresources.net/DisposalBioClaims.htm
For better or for worse, new allegations that surface during custody and divorce cases are getting more scrutiny - there's no longer a presumption that the allegation is true.
This is good because fewer innocents are being ramrodded. This is bad because more guilty people go free. After all, in a case where the only evidence is the word of one spouse and the very-possibly-tainted word of one child, who are you going to believe?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Actually, the age of consent in England, Scotland and Wales is 16, as it is in most American states.
.
.probably not, but you might well have to face prosecution to get the definitive answer. There are whole classes of sexually related crimes now where it's impossible to tell a priori whether you are guilty of them or not. You do it, then a jury decides whether what you did was a crime or not. It all comes down to your moral judgement at the time vs. theirs after the fact. Intent doesn't even come into it.
Doesn't really matter though, because I understand the actual question you are asking, and the answer is. .
Currently a rather murky kettle of legal fish due to some very recent laws. Sex offenders are the new witches; and we're out to get 'em even it means violating all sorts of long held and perfectly sound legal principles to do it. Not to mention broadening the whole scope of what is defined as a sex offense so that we can simply sweep in the maximum number of people who behave sexually in a manner that offends anybody.
Sex. We're agin it.
As phrased. . .
Obscenity laws are the most obvious example.
Change the phrasing of your question just a little bit though and you could well be deep in the shit.
KFG
I live in FL. I took a look at the registry for local sex offenders and they were all repeat offenders. I agree that it is usually someone you know, but it is not likely to be a one-time thing for the offender.
Another odd thing is that there aren't a whole lot of middle-aged sex offenders here. They are either young or old. That means that a lot of the sex offenders are going to be getting 25-year sentences that are longer than they have been alive (or will be alive, in the case of the old folks).
My problem with something similar to this idea (not the under 12 thing, but the sex offender in general thing...):
I seriously question how many guys are put into jail today after being accused of raping a girl. How often is it "he said, she said"? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend rapists, but the whole movie-production of a woman screaming "rape rape!" is hardly ever the case. In today's society, all a woman really needs to do is accuse some non-multi-millionaire of rape, show a little sperm, and he's in jail for a loooooong time.
I definitely don't hold it against some women to pull such an act any more than I hold it against some guy to actually willingly do it to begin with.
A community-oriented lyrics site
Jam his GPS and he goes to jail for non-compliance.
Sneaky sneaky.
Consider what 'sex offender' can mean. We're immediately led to imagine a child molester, but consider that a 'sex offense' in some less enlightened areas in the country can be things like
Sodomy (between consenting adults)
Public Urination
Outside the military, sodomy is legal in the USA.
Public urination is usually not a sex crime unless you have priors or you knew or should have known someone could see you. Then it's exhibitionism.
just because a story is about people using gps doesn't mean it's news for nerds.. okay this is YRO so convicted pedophiles have a right to sneak around and find more kids to lure into thier twisted sexual fantasies? if they're repeat offenders they deserve to have a gps leash around them for the rest of thier lives, to protect innocent children...
when you break the law, you give up certain rights, if, they were doing this to people who they SUSPECTED of being pedophiles, or 'because they're a citizen of our great nation' then it's just plain wrong, and a sign we're entering a full blown police state. tagging criminals with radio collars, might just help prevent them from commiting crimes again.
Maybe, but you'll have to follow the facts more closely. This sounds like a trial that could catch a lot of attention. Jeb being who he is aside, the whole debate is going to be new.
Standardizing would certainly be a good thing and if this does catch on it might happen at a federal level (which would probably be the best place for it).
And as far as worrying about what the age of the rape victim is, I hesitate to take that in to too serious concern. I'd be more worried about the parameters used to define (ie statutory vs. forcible vs. exposure, etc) the offense. There would certainly need to be some hard and fast rules, because there is an obvious and very big slippery slope.
But in my opinion rapists, as in violent, forced rape, don't have a lot of my sympathy. They take a lot away from their victims, their victims families and their victims current and future lovers. Their is a high price on both sides.
*Your* wife, or daughter or mother or best friend gets raped you'll want to cut the mans balls off yourself. GPS is a walk in the park compared to what a lot of victim and their relations would like to have happen. Who's 9 year old daughter needs to be found in the woods with the throat slit and clear signs of sexual abuse before you get angry? In some ways this law is a measure appoach to a social problem we don't have a solution to. Of course in politics nothing is ever as simple as it seems, I'll watch and we'll see what happens. I don't suspect the technology is seriously there, but its early.
Quack, quack.
In California, you can be put on the list just because someone accused you of abuse. It's extremely difficult to get off the list, even when you are supposed to be removed. How would you like to be on a list of sex offenders for the rest of your life because some wingnut got upset with you and filed a false accusation? It would be even sweeter if you were GPS tagged as a result... This country is going to hell in the proverbial handbasket and my advice is to get the hell out if you can, before there's no place in the world accepting Americans any more.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Murderers have a fairly low recidivism rate.
This is in large part to the fact that most murders are done for a reason - revenge, part of another crime, a mob hit, or gang-related.
By the time a murderer gets out, decades have passed and all those reasons typically no longer exist. Typically, a paroled or released murderer isn't at much higher risk of murdering someone than you or I am, not after 20 years.
Sure, some people have lifelong "murderous" personalities, but that's not the norm, at least not for non-lifers.
Some sex offenders, particularly pedophiles, have a personality trait that needs to be addressed if they are to be out of jail. One way, perhaps not the best way, of addressing it is by tracking. Better ways include various forms of treatment discussed elsewhere in this thread, including phsychotherapy and sex-drive-lowering drugs.
Also, until the last 10 years, sex offenders typically got less than 20 years, usually a lot less. It will be interesting to measure the post-release recidivism of sex offenders in 2030, after those convicted since 2000 have been out for a few years.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Also a service could be offered to allow people to track the location of a sex offender...
Unless you're providing police protection along with this data, there is a huge liability here for the government. Hate crimes against sex offenders would suddenly become much easier.
...if repeated 3" z-axis variations in the GPS coordinates will trigger an automatic alert.
What's to prevent a tagged person from wrapping the tag in foil? Or just letting the batteries die?
This is not a practical solution for tagging someone *forever*, against their will.
"Seeing as sex offenders have an insanely high rate of committing such crimes again, yes it does help keep society safe."
Where do you get your information about sex offender recidivism rates? Many people seem to take it for granted that sex offenders have very high recidivism rates, but it seems to be one of those things that people just repeat back and forth to each other without actually bothering to ever check if it's true. A simple google for "sex offender recidivism rates" brings up numerous studies indicating that the recidivism rate is only around 10-20%. That's hardly an "insanely high" rate, especially when you consider that recidivism rates for other crimes like robbery are often as high as 40-50%.
You are absolutely correct for parolees.
However, if a person is sentenced to "10-20" and he serves the full 20, then no more punishment is allowed.
Sex-offender-registration requirements are nominally there to protect society for what an ex-con is statistically likely to do, not what he has done or what he individually is likely to do.
We'd go a long way towards respecting civil liberties of ex-cons - yes, they have them - if we could move to individual likelihood, not statistical likelihood.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Sure beats the life minimum some states have.
After all, in a capital case, the prosecution has the option of charging under a lesser included charge with lower penalties, if that's what will fit the crime.
By the way, in some countries in Europe, everyone is eligible for parole after 25 years, no matter what the crime.
God will forgive. Or maybe God has already forgiven before the deed is done.
My religion says I should forgive, but it doesn't say anything about forgetting.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
1605: Drown them, drown them! 2005: Tag them, tag them!
Look, all of these knee-jerk laws have been in response to some convicted sex offender taking a kid, doing Lord-knows-what, killing the kid, and disposing of the body somewhere. All of the knee-jerk laws, however, fail to actually prevent this from happening.
Would parents being able to find out about sex offenders in their area result in irresponsible parents taking better care of their kids? What if that sex offender just happens to drive through a neighborhood that isn't his/her own? Do those laws somehow help prevent that?
And GPS tracking? Give me a break. That helps you catch the guy after the fact. In all these cases, they've caught the guy anyway, so all that does is reduce the civil liberties of lots of people to capture a handful who would have gotten caught anyway. What's the point?
No, what we need to do is mandate that a tracking device with a lifetime battery be implanted in a child at birth and removed at age 18. When a child goes missing, five minutes later, the police converge, shoot the person who kidnapped the kid, and the kid arrives home alive, rather than in a body bag dragged from the mud of some swamp in Florida.
If you're going to pass a law that reduces civil liberties, at least pick a group that already has no right to privacy. If you're going to pass a law to protect children, at least pass a law that will actually protect children . Makes a heck of a lot more sense to me....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Hope no-one in your immediate environment will ever be the victim of a sex-offender, especially at a young age. These people are scarred for life. Rape is (together with murder) about the WORST you can ever do to an other.
...because that would clearly be equivilant to child molestation.
Seems like a better solution would be to put anklets on the sex offenders that set off an alarm when a certain distance to a location. Each location would purchase/lease the "antenna" thus supporting the network financially. Two types antenna would be sold - one for institutions like schools and a second for private citizens.
Each anklet would transmit a code identifing the criminal. The attenna would record the number as well as notify local police of the infringement. At that time the dispatcher would identify both the criminal and the location dto decide whether to send out a car.
Not a 100%, you could still get around it by making your own bullets or taking somebody else's, but it could come in handy. Besides, having been on jury duty, I can tell you that their are plenty of dumb criminals out there.
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm
Check out VA...
So former child molesters are the safest persons to leave your kids around with? Do you really believe this yourself???
I'm suprised to hear 16 is the age of consent if one of the partners is much older. I know that some states make exceptions if both are young or one is close to the legal age (like being 18 and having sex with a 17 is carved out I think in some states).
It is kind of the new witchhunt- I agree. OTH, things like the thailand tours with sex with 8 year olds are so clearly wrong that they start the fire.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Or they just prey on women? Quote by ErikTheRed: "You have to either really hate women or be completely clueless as to the consequences of something like this to not consider this an extremely bad situation (for your sake, I hope it's the latter)." Hmmm, I seem to remember a certain female teacher... Who is now married to her "victim". Was justice served? I'm not saying she commited no crime, but does the "Justice" system deliver justice? P.S. Her name is Mary Kay Latourneau
It is crazy, but it just might work!
Of course you have to implant it in their body somewhere, or you will just end up locating a bunch of dismembered arms and legs.
Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
Excellent!
Now I'll know when my son is coming out for a visit from Wisconson.
Sad... but true.
That said, you have to be careful not to fall into the "slippery slope" fallacy: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery- slope.html
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
I think we should just change all the laws to what christian fundamentalists would love:
1) Anyone who has sex with:
1A) another person,
1B) animal, or
1C) him or herself, or
2) any lawfully married heterosexual couple who has sex other than for reproduction, or
3) anyone who uses birth control
shall be subject to life imprisonment with no possibility for parole.
Even though this would convict most priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes throughout history (and probably jesus himself), I'm sure they would still want it passed into law.
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
It's a good true crime murder mystery published on my web site in which I end with calling for GPS tracking of sex offenders. Give it a look.
. php?f=32
Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewforum
rd
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
If a 30 year old looks 11, don't have sex with her (him).
The situation is more complicated when a child looks adult. But when an adult looks like a child, it's a no-brainer.
A lot of the culture is passed down from Christian groups like Puritans. Many people believe looking upon someone naked is sinful. You can't exactly prevent looking itself, so there are laws against nudity.
The age of consent in Thailand is 15, higher than it is in either Canada (14) or Mexico (12).
I'm not sure you entirely grasp the concept of age of consent either. It is the age at which a person is deemed to be legally competent to make the ethical and moral questions involved for themselves.
It's really no different from legal competence to sign a contract. Age difference has no real bearing on the matter. Just "of age." Your own feelings about age difference are your own issue, not the legally consenting partner's (although I live in a state with a "multilayered" system, the laws and reasoning behind them are a bit complex; and I'm not going to go into them here).
KFG
I think the problem should be solved pragmatically: make them wear an electric belt and screw a digital camera into their foreheads. Everything they see will be monitored remotely, and whenever they try to attack someone, they receive an electric shock which sends them to the ground. Immediate conditioning. No further punishment necessary. Much cheaper and more effective than traditional methods.
In fact, it's possible that these offenders with their plainly visible cameras could become quite desirable dating material: after all, he certainly won't be able to abuse his woman, which is much more than you can say about the average guy.
Wait until the government "finds" the DNA thread that makes people more susceptible to becoming child molestors and tags all the potentials. C'mon America, you are becoming a very bad example of a democracy by allowing the wholescale slaughter of your civil rights and exporting them to the rest of the world.
If he's not comparing pederasty to being a Jew or Christian in Nazi Germany, or being a "brown immigrant" (particularly in Florida, where this article references) or being a dissident, and if he is not fairly explicitly comparing the United States to Nazi Germany*, then I have missed the point (if any) of the great-grandparent and apologize.
All of that being said, I think that the point is pretty sophmoric, and that if I haven't missed the point, my original analysis stands.
* (note invocation of Godwin's law)
Carthago delenda est!
Just browsing through the comments i found myself asking a few questions. Firstly , what exactly is the point in tracking previous offenders via GPS? and how does this prevent them from re-offending?
...And when you think about it there are all sorts of criminals out there who want to murder/rape/kidnap/carjack you, they could be right outside you door now, they could pounce at any time it really isn't safe for you out there. What we really need is to tag all the criminals, remeber they are criminals so it's ok really, everything will be ok soon.
Just think about the logistics involved to make such a sytem worthwhile. How will these people be monitored? If they enter an area they shouldn't be in, will an enforcement squad be sent out to detain them immediately? If not then it would be negligent to have released someone who you have determined poses a risk (the risk quantified by the tagging) in the first place.
If the point of tracking the movements of someone is to prevent them from entering certain areas, this would suggest they already pose a risk of commiting an offence (guilty before proven innocent anyone?). It begs the question, if you use GPS to track someone and as such deem them to pose a risk to society, should they even be released in the first place? It seems to be a contradiction of terms. A tagging system would not prevent someone re-offending.
Although it would provide an excellent basis for a study on methods for tracking large numbers of the population.
But when you think about it how do we know we got them all? anyone has the potential to be a criminal you know, could be your next door neighbour is a criminal. Then theres the terrorists/communists/insurgants/dissidents we really need to make sure your not a terrorist/communist/insurgant/dissident, because you could be, they're everywhere plotting against us you know.
Its for the best really and don't forget we just want to make things safer and easier for you because it's a scary place out there.
Well we got those evil crimanls great news isn't it! The only problem is were not all that happy about your polical ideas and we noticed that you've been socialising with some other people who have the wrong political ideas.
Im afraid you will have to come with me...
If you read the article, it sets the limit at 11. Not that 12+ is not a sex crime, but I'm sure that the conditions are weighed out in court. ANYONE who does something to an 11 year old deserves whatever they get. I don't think that you can conjure a scenario that paints something like that as a simple misjudgment... I don't care if you are a 12 year old boy... if something like that happens, you are not wired correctly and should never be trusted again.
As for the 17 year old... they are all familiar with "jail bait." No 17 year old should be shagging a 15 year old. So if he gets caught, let him pay the price. If he doesn't like it, let him become a lawyer, run for office and change the laws, so that it will be perfectly legal for anyone to have sex with HIS 15 year old DAUGHTER. But, I am sure that by that time, he will have changed his mind.
When you are old enough to pay real taxes, I'm sure that you will have changed your mind as well.
Just my $0.02
"Perhaps most amazingly, votaries of 'diversity' insist on absolute conformity." -- Tony Snow
You should watch the PBS Special, Burden of Innocence. It has interviews with a lot of people who were wrongfully convicted for rape and other crimes, and then their story of how impossible it was to find jobs even when they were completely exonerated.
To quote the site directly:
Only 17 jurisdictions have laws providing monetary compensation to the wrongfully convicted. Of these, the amount of compensation varies widely, from a maximum of $5,000 under federal law, to an unlimited cap in New York and West Virginia.(from here) - That basically means if the Federal Govt fucks up and wrongfully convicts you, you can only sue for $5,000.
... if the parents would be the only ones to know where their children were.
I don't care for Big Brother knowing where my children are at ALL TIMES. And such a concept should be opt-in. Big Brother should NEVER be able to determine where someone is without either their consent (As in the case of a parent wanting law enforcement to know where their child is) or, possibly, in the tracking of sex offenders (although I'm more likely to say keep them locked up in jail if we can't trust them).
About a 2 year grace period between ages for there to be an offense. Moreover, this particular law wouldn't apply to those types of convictions AFAIK.
This sounds like a great idea. Until we're all being tracked via GPS through our onstar. Man what is this country coming to. Seems we've all forgotten where we came from. "Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security"--Benjamin Franklin Jeremy MCSE MCSA CCNA http://www.n2networksolutions.com/ Arizona Computer Consulting
We find the defendant Not Guilty Your Honor.
Anyone remember the start of the second Iraq war? When the U.S. government, being the only ones in control of GPS, decided to turn down the accuracy for all non-US military signals in order to stop any Iraqis from using off the shelf GPS gear against them?
I'm looking forward to Operation Someone Else Has Oil Freedom - the maps change from nice reassuring dots to three hundred plus yard wide shaded circles. With a large enough number of sex offenders (consensual BDSM, urinating against a tree when drunk, girls who lied about their age), the entire state of Florida will turn in to a great big glowing hot spot and the entire population'll freak out.
Given the choice: reassuring themselves that knowing where these people are makes a difference vs. slightly cheaper oil... which side will the average middle American fall on? Will they still accept war if it means turning down the accuracy of their knee-jerk response system for a while?
Hey, if one form of stupidity that only hurts their own citizens prevents another form of stupidity that hurts other countries' citizens, is it such a terrible thing?
Mankind is created by God in His image.
God doesn't make junk.
None of us are perfect, just some people are more - a lot more - imperfect than others.
We lock people away mainly to prevent dangerous people from hurting society, and to a lesser extent to satisfy the human need for "vengance" and, for certain crimes - whether or not this includes sex offenders I do not know - to provide a detterent.
Assuming the additional deterrent effect is negligible, once a person is no longer a danger to society, keeping him locked up says more about society than it does the criminal - and what it has to say is not good.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The main thread is about kids 11 and under.
How many of your examples were under 11?
Sex hormones kick in about a year or two before the first period or ejaculation - how many of your examples were more than 2 years away from their first period or ejaculation?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
these people have already served their time in jail?
More to the topic, the tracking sex offenders for life bit is just political grandstanding. Do they even have the hardware lined up? What does it look like? How much does it cost? How long does the battery last on a full charge? Does the parole officer have to collect the GPS data from the individuals or does it 'phone home.' Given the reliability and speed of mobile phone data transfers, either solution will probably suck. Assuming it's a bracelet sort of device, how hard would it be for the criminal involved to simply cover the device with his tinfoil hat before heading out to molest some kids for the evening. Even if the 'client' hardware is flawless, the server side of things can't be much more useful than passive tracking. There are 200 registered offenders in Citrus county where Jessica Lunsford was murdered. There are 2075 in Miami-Dade. There must be tens of thousands in the entire state. We can't even scale to those numbers to prevent fratricide among our military men and they are assumed to be cooperative in the process. Now try it with a group of individuals who would prefer not to be tracked. Even a fraction of the total number sex offenders in FL are going to be VERY hard to keep up with. News for nerds? Where are the benchmarks? The hardware specs? Oh, there aren't any? Isn't that interesting.
In short, this appears to be nothing more than political "feel good" vaporware, and yet another instance where the "moral majority" is jumping on a local issue in Florida to score points without accomplishing anything. Cheney isn't running in 2008. Jeb has started the campaign early. Are the Democrats trying to point out the obvious flaws? Nope. It looks like they are going to stand by and get their ass handed to them again.
There is no greater threat to our nation than women acting like they are not the property of their Fathers, Husbands, and Fiances. In order to preserve our Christian values we must ammend the constitution to require all brides to wear a GPS unit for life!
The word 'rape' sounds really bad, why don't we just call it 'surprise sex'
Google maps + GPS + recidivist.... You'll be soon able to check google if it is safe to get out! How wait a minute... If this happens, my wife could be able to follow me at every minute! Argh!
And You will find that 'sex offenders' is a broad category. It's hard to mix groups of sociopathic rapists with "regressed" personality pedophiles and put them on the same page as Oscar Wilde-type socially skilled "fixated" pedophiles.
The problem is that the law makes no distinction what so ever. So the punishment (because of mandatory sentencing) is the same for someone who violently anally rapes a screaming young child as it is for someone who cracks after 40 years of supressed sexual fantasies and touches a giggling 11 year old's breast area at his backyard swimming pool. Honestly, in most states, both of those crimes would be prosecuted as some sort of "felony sexual assault against a child" (a Class 2 felonly in Colorado with mandatory minimums around 8-30 years) and with all of the mandatory sentencing laws in place, would be subject to the same sentence, but obviously, they are hugely different. One man may not deserve prison at all and the other might command a life sentence, but because of knee-jerk reactions, they will get EXACTLY the same treatment.
ahhh sigh. Problem with this topic is that people already made up their minds and if they want to form a lynch mob, they will do it and nothing but guns will stop them.
Interesingly, DOJ studies indicate that sex offender recividism is the lowest of all crime categories. In fact, when you use numbers of "re-conviction" the number cuts in half, which indicates that a very large number (half) of re-arrests of sex offenders were not based on sufficient evidence to convict them.
I find that, in itself disturbing, having a friend who was falsely accused and NEARLY convicted (thak god for $50,000 lawyers). That's VERY sad.
Stewey
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
The majority of sex offenders released from prison in the US have received no treatment.
Some will be treated in the community after release, but many will be unsupervised.
Perhaps the money that this would cost would be better spent providing rehabilitative programs.
After all it really only needs them to remove their gps tracker for an hour or so to go rape someone.
I'm not talking about kids who are at the legal age of consent with regard to Thailand tho I am suprised to hear the age is so low.
We have had expose shows on TV here in the states about some of the places and I would be suprised if the kids are 10 and they were being kept prisoners.
My own feelings have little to do with what I was stating. I was saying that it was my impression they have loopholes in the law for people close to the same age who on are on opposite sides of the statutory rape line. There is no need to bring on the attitude when I was asking what the facts were.
I do grasp the concept of the age of consent. I also grasp that we have different ages at which we get different rights and that different countries grant those various rights at various ages that differ from ours.
The -question- was, what is your legal status if you go to a foreign country and have sex with an american citizen who is at the legal age of consent by that country's laws not what happens if you go and have sex with a citizen of that country who is of legal age. I know drinking laws don't apply so I was curious.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
If you want to punish people for having a one-night-stand, at least be consistent.
Last post!
We should do this for all kinds of unpopular crimes - drug dealing, muggings, manslaughter. Then all the rest of us law abiding thugs can track these people down and kill them at will, and the cops will know who to beat on when they pull someone over for speeding, and child pornographers will be able to identify clients easier ... Oh wait. I'm not sure about that last part.
Though I in no way condem sexual preditors.. he's the shade of gray... Back when I was 18, I was at a drinking party that got busted. Unfortuntitly I was in the middle of certian intamcies with a 16 year. If it wasn't for the fact that her parents said it was ok, I would have been pegged as a level 3 sex offender. Registering where ever I went, no way to take my kids to school (if I could even keep them.. DSHS and all that). The thing with the current Preditor laws, is that there are no shades... if you are charged (which in my case would have been a easy case for the prosocuters) then you are guilty for the rest of your life. That 16 (10 years ago) year old who happens to by the mother of my 2 children and my wife happens to agree with me
Not a bad idea actually. In truth it does scare me a bit, because of what it could open the door for, but for what it's intended I like the idea. Personally, in my opinion sex offenders are just about the lowest form of life on Earth. I mean it takes a sick individual to molest a child or rape a woman. Personally, if it weren't for the possibility that some of those guys might actually be innocent, I'd say the sentence should carry a mandatory automatic castration. But back to what I'm saying: sex offenders shouldn't have the same rights as everybody else. You're a sick freak, you can't control yourself, you pay the price (Michael Jackson).
This GPS tracking has no place in our current society. This is sad, because these sex offenders are sick, many of them cannot help what they are doing, and by saying "no" to this tracking, you are almost certainly ensuring that some kids will be hurt in preventable situations. The effect of instituting this could be much more widespread, severe, and detrimental to our society than a few isolated rapes.
Where will our government stop? Once there is a tracking program in place for a large number of people in the name of "keeping the children safe," the precedent will exist to track other groups of people deemed dangerous. I don't trust our post-9/11 government with this responsibility and power. First, it'll be "pedophiles," then "felons," then at some point it'll cross the line to potential terrorists and "dissidents."
That's you're problem right there ...
....
.. (by tagging them).
"the kids" are not "the kids"
as everyone on the face of the planet seems
to percieve them.
"the kids" are not all children either.
"the kids" are merely young adults and
should be treated as such. IMHO.
it's no wonder this planet is fuck3d up!
Tracing them all is like
stripping all freedoms away.
learning by mistake is what makes us adults tick.
Strip all freedoms away
and you're fucked.
Send them to countries where the crimes are legal.
Plnet of places in the world where sex with minors is legal. Its their means of making money and people accept it. Most stuff illegal in the US is legal somewhere. Send them there.
Id gladly take a 1 way ticket to Amsterdam.
You can't spell "I seek balls" without "Pesky Liberals"!!!!111
Yeah, right.
I read this and thought it made sence. Stan
RFID, The Perfect Storm
How the RFID mandate may be the front runner to a biometrics purchasing mandate.
(PRWEB) April 22, 2005 -- RFID The Perfect Storm by James Mata
We consumers are at a point in life where we will move from the simple task at the market place of purchasing supplies for home, office, motor home or where ever else. We walk into the store and purchase our items, using cash or card to pay for the scanned items, under the UPC (Universal Product Code) system, commonly referred to as the bar-code. It seems simple enough and not threatening to our privacy, right?
Well, that first step in the times to come is now about to give way to the next step by a system that could later be used not only as a marketing tool, but as a device used by governments to keep track of and control the lives of their citizens. In fact, you might say this Trojan Horse, containing big brother and all of his friends, is knocking at the door right now trying to get a foot in, and it's very likely that at least 70 percent of consumers worldwide don't even know it.
Could it be that if those who are unaware knew what lies at the end of this road, this atrocity could be stopped in it's tracks? Because of the nature of the beast within, it stands to reason that consumers would not want to allow whats in store to take place.
Wal-Mart, the "super power" monster store, has found a new direction in how they will run their conglomeration, and have accordingly informed their global supply chain for the purpose of forcing cooperation concerning this new method for all products bought by and for Wal-Mart's Corporation. Having so mandated, the suppliers complied, firing the shot that is now being heard around the business world: All retail competitors will now have to follow Wal-Martâ(TM)s new high-tech lead just to be able to compete.
The mandate is that all items sold by Wal-Mart will now have a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) chip implanted in all products they sell.
What is an RFID?
Radio frequency identification, or RFID, is a generic term for technologies that use radio waves to automatically identify individual items. There are several methods of identifying objects using RFID, but the most common is to store a serial number that identifies a product, on a microchip that is attached to an antenna (called an RFID transponder, or an RFID tag).
Soon, as we see with the bar-code, no one will be able to buy or sell any products without the RFID. This chip will go home with consumers and one day our homes with products containing these RFID chips.
Why should we be concerned?
At this time it seems that there is nothing we can do about this Trojan horse banging at the door, but we can and need to learn everything possible about the RFID movement in order to be able to maintain our Constitutional right to privacy.
Many individuals are apathetic about the RFID chips, chalking it up to technology while not realizing why they should be concerned. How would these individuals feel if their home items were made public knowledge? Anything, from that steamy romance novel sitting on their nightstand to the style and size under pants they wear can be found and monitored.
Hypothetically speaking, if a vehicle with a RFID transponder were to pull up out side ones home, those inside that vehicle would have electronic access to the entire inventory of the private lives of that houses occupants, and who knows what could take place once that knowledge leaked out, especially into the wrong hands. We have all heard the saying, "keep and honest man honest; this certainly gives us something to think about.
The RFID market has not stopped here; it will continue to transpire to greater levels beyond our comprehension. There is a RFID chip out now called the Verichip. This chip is implanted into the human body, and may store your Visa Card, bank debit card, and social security and other private informati
From down here in Jesusland, in the banana republic of Florida, home to the new law....
First, if someone has finished their jail & probation time, haven't they "paid their debt to society"? How are they supposed to "rehabilitate themselves", with this on top of the near-impossibility of getting a job other than flipping burgers with a felony conviction.
Then there's the matter of definition: I'm thinking of an aquaintance here, who spent three years in jail for statutory rape...because he was 18, and his girlfriend was 16 or 17. I'm still trying to find out from our local newsmedia if this applies to people like him.
Remember, Jeezuz's Forgiveness (tm) only applies to other members of your church, and those Republicans who agree with you.
mark
Isn't he signed bill which allow using of gun for self defense on the streets?
Am I the only person that thinks we shouldn't waste the money on the very expensive technology require to lo-jack every child sex offender? I say EXECUTE them. Anyone that preys on children, to molest, to rape, to kill, to steal a child's lollipop should not be allowed to breath. The majority that are released are not reformed, and commit the same crimes again. Stop pandering to the "reforms" of a prison system that is worried about offending the rights of people that have destroyed the rights and lives of their victims. Don't whine at me about society giving these people rough lives. Don't talk to me about the "pedofiles are victims, too" crap. Everyone has bad things that happen to them in life, but that is NOT a justification for destroying other lives. I was molested as a child, that does NOT give me the right to do the same to others. I have been in a store while it was being robbed, that does not give me the right to rob other stores. We, as a society, fail to take responsibility for our actions. We all to readily place the blame on everyone else. Be it an abusive family, bad brain chemistry, financially poor upbringing, or too much stress, we throw drugs at everything, and then are surprised when the inhibitions of a person on these drugs is lowered enough, or mangled enough to give them the idea of breaking laws and ending lives. Then we can blame it on the drugs. Anything but take responsibility for our actions. Let us feel compassion for the B*st*rd that preys on children. Let us protect his/her rights. Forget the children. Their parents should be watching them 24/7. It is obviously THEIR fault.
touche
Assuming the punishment phase of the sentence is over, you placing dangerous people in the least restrictive environment possible.
Let's take the example of a 20 year old who robs a bank and shoots but does not kill a guard. he gets "20 to 40" for attempted murder and other charges.
During the first 20 years, you put him in the least restrictive prison that's appropriate - a super-max if warranted, a work farm if he's deemed very-low-security.
After 20 years, your options open up - if he's low risk you can parole him under whatever conditions are appropriate. If he's medium or high risk you can keep him locked up in the appropriate facility.
After 40 years, you discharge him from the criminal justice system. If he's still a danger to others, you treat him like anyone without a criminal record who is dangerous to society - you use the normal mental-illness-warrent or danger-to-yourself-or-others warrant provisions that are available in the law, or perhaps you get a restraining order if he's a danger to a particular person, such as the ex-partner who sold him out in a plea bargain. For discharged sex offenders, most states use a "tierd" approach to community notification, and some have a judicial process, complete with a jury trial, to put extremely dangerous people in a mental hospital involuntarily for a short time.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
About 1/10 to 1/5 of convicted sex offenders are women.
How do you propose to make them lose their balls?
People convicted of sodomy should seek to have their convictions overturned. This should just be a matter of money and paperwork, I'd bet pro-gay organizations can help such people with their paperwork.
Once the conviction is overturned, the registration requirement goes away.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
We should do this for all kinds of unpopular crimes
....
You know, speeding, jaywalking, parking violations, cheating on your wife in states where that is a crime, cheating the IRS, trading bootleg movies over the internet,
Your state doesn't have teen romance laws legalizing sex between similar-aged teens? Time to get one passed.
I recommend allowing at least a 5 year age-similarity-gap for people over 15 and at least a 3 year gap for people under 15. 12 year olds are going to fool around with classmates, and there's nothing wrong with a 15 year old and a 20 year old if mom and dad approve.
Heck, let's go one further, if the gap is under 2x the normal gap - 6 or 10 years depending on the age of the younger person - and it's a first offense, it's a misdemeanor with several months' jail time followed by a couple years' probation, with the Sex-offender registration requirement to be determined by probation officer.
Parents don't like their 15 year old dating an 18 year old? Let them get a restraining order.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Sure, lots of places don't enforce the laws like we do in the USA, but I know of very few countries with ages of consent below 13. Even countries like Amsterdam and the former Pacific Rim hotbeds of pedophilia have minimum ages of 13 or higher.
If your friend's lawyer can get his ex-girlfriend to speak up for him, he should seek a pardon or expungement.
If not, he should do so when his record's been clean for 10 years. If he has people "of quality" like religious leaders to speak up for him, and it's denied, he can go to the media and make a stink.
If Florida doesn't have special exceptions for teens in love they need to.
The original article mentioned sex with kids 11 and under, so your friend is off the hook on this one.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Sometime in the last 50 years the US Supreme Court said you can't execute rapists.
However, if you have the entire county backing you you can murder someone knowing any jury will find you not guilty.
Yeah yeah yeah, as if you can be trusted to not spiral any argument out of hand. You've already admitted to the desire to commit murder long after the fact and in a calm venue in full view of as many people as read Slashdot - you don't get to argue 'extenuating circumstances' after that. You're clearly comfortable with the attitude. And that makes you dangerous.
Yeah, 165 years. You said yourself he's never getting out. And he's in a special hell already, general pop doesn't much like kiddiefuckers. But that's not enough. You need blood. Blood for blood and by the gallon.
Funny how you're the only one who gave him a death sentence... because your vicious emotional response is so much more accurate than the practiced opinions and judgements of an entire host of judicial professionals in an open court of due process law witnessed by 12 citizen peers. Meh. Victimhood loves company, I guess.
May as well get used to the feeling. Also probably shouldn't carry concealed, you never know when it'll rise again the next time you need some 'justice'. Like at the drive-thru. Or the theatre.
At least I'm not the one talking about murdering someone. So if you think I'm vicious, then WTF does that make you... maybe best not to go that route, wouldn't want you to fly off the handle there wherever you are. There might be innocents nearby.
However, there is a federal law in the US making it illegal for US citizens and permanent residents to go abroad and have sex with a person under the age of 16 (or commercial sex with a person under the age of 18). So that law could apply in your hypothetical case.
I don't know what I think about this law. I found out recently that a guy I knew way back in high school hooked up with a 17 year old girl when he was 26. Her father caught them, pressed charges, and he was convicted and put on the sex offender registry. Now you can even look him up on the state's sex offender website. However, it was a mutual thing between them, and kids are having sex around 12 or 13 these days anyway, with many girls being as sexually free and aggressive as guys, and at least as interested in older guys as they are in guys their same age. Heck, I met a 14 year old girl a few months ago who looked at least 20, was partying at the beach with her 29-year old friend, and hitting on guys without regard to any age difference, as long as they were hot. As a guy you really have to be careful these days, since things are so much more open, free, and unrestricted between the sexes, but certain laws have not consequently evolved to take this into account. It makes me question whether these sex-offender laws have become too anachronistic and need to be revised to better reflect modern society. There are certainly messed-up sexual predators about that need to be restrained and punished *cough*MichealJackson*cough*, but neither do I want to see kids playing around treated like pedofiles under the law and tracked with GPS devices the rest of their lives. Not sure how to make the ideal legal distinction, but I think it's something that needs to be considered.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
That is an excellent point. Police protection would definentley need to play a big part.
411 Y0UR 8453 4R3 8310NG 70 U5!! -NSA
Either someone is too dangerous to be free in society or they are not. Probably something like 2 strikes would work well: "You do that again and you are going away forever". The 3 strikes laws have certainly cut crime rates, and to bait the leftists, I must point out something printed in one of the more liberal east coast papers (I think NYT but I can't remember). This is the gist : "Jail population increases despite drop in crime rate". OMG, how do people who think like that function?
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
>Maybe they can get Google maps to add red zones around all of the restricted areas."
FYI - some companies that provide "sex offender" GPS tracking and monitoring services already implement the maps and restricted "red zones" that you mention. Here are some links that show what they look like:
GPS tracking specs and screenshots - www.isecuretrac.com/products_tracnet24.asp
GPS tracking demo - www.isecuretrac.com/tracnet24_demo.asp?focus=maps
Thought you might like to know.
> All cops carry the readers, and can stop anyone with a gun and check it. In fact, if it's RFID they might not have to even stop you. Just if you seem to be carrying one and their reader doesn't trigger, they stop you. Sure, it's easy to remove the tag - but if you do, as soon as you walk by a policeman you're going to get stopped. This would mean most criminals who did remove the tags would be arrested before they used their untraceable guns.
OK, I have my de-chipped gun in my holster, and I have the ID chip screwed down under the handgrip. Any officer who checks the gun or walks by gets an ID. When I'm ready to walk into the convenience store, one minute in my car with a screwdriver to remove it and pliers to destroy it and my gun is untraceable. Like he said, all the tag does is make the criminals step up a bit.
Virg
> There is definitely a gray area in there. At the age of 20, how many of you never checked out a high school chick? How many of you never checked out a 16 year old? I'm guessing somewhere around 1% or 2% ... There are some VERY well developed 15 and 16 year olds out there that look like they're 18 or 19. When you're 20, jumping down 2 or so years is not a stretch. However, by time you hit 25, you should have grown out of that. Is it right that a 20 year old who has sex with a 16 year old should be GPS-tracked for the rest of their life? Hardly. Now, if that 20 year old went for a 12 year old or something, fine ...
Funny you add that last sentence. TFA is discussing such measures for those who are convicted of crimes involving the under-12 set. RTFA.
> Probably better than the kid I traumatized by that act..
Community notification laws affect all sex offenders, and there's a fairly broad definition for that classification. As stated by at least one poster above, getting caught urinating in a public place will get you labelled a "sex offender" in Florida. Now, which kid was traumatized by that act, exactly? Keep in mind that the notification doesn't specify the crime for which you're tagged, just that you are a sex offender. Thirty years from now, how'd you like to face down an employer who won't hire you because of that tag, by trying to say, "Hey, I just peed on a dumpster! It's not like I'm a child rapist!" Since you yourself seem to assume that "sex offender" equates with "child molester", don't you think it's likely that others might as well?
Virg