Slashdot Mirror
Books in Beta Form
congaflum writes "The Pragmatic Bookshelf recently released
the second beta of their upcoming book Agile Web Development with Rails. By releasing the book to the public in beta form, the authors are able to gather feedback about the books content from a larger audience that would normally be the case. Readers get to influence the direction on the books content by posting feedback to the publisher's website. And of course there's the benefit of simply getting to read the book early. Could beta-version books be a sign of future changes in the commercial publishing industry? And with the availability of things like print on demand these days, how about books that are much more frequently revised (why buy a year-old Edition 1 of something, if you can have Edition 1.1.18?)"
Maybe Star Wars should be released in beta? This way nobody can really argue who shot first.
For a guide/manual book, beta is probably a good idea because the ultimate goal is for readers to make use of the book easily.
For a story book, instead of releasing beta of a pseudo-complete book, author should release it chapter by chapter, and change the story direction based on reader feedback, in another word, Plot-Beta rather than Writing-Beta.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
On the plus side I wouldn't mind seeing an "updates" site where the author could publish tech corrections, version updates, etc.
My other car is a Popemobile
Please give feedback on the quality of this post.
Book is available for ordering here: Agile Web Development with Rails
With people having the electronic format available there's a few factors to consider:
1) There will be more word of mouth, so more people will hear about it
2) Some people will buy it because they read some of it and like the content but prefer the format of the book (so that they can read it in the bathroom maybe, what do i know).
3) Some people will read it and decide that they either don't like it, or that they are satisfied with just having the book in its electronic format.
What the publisher in this case is that item 1 and 2 will add more buyers than item 3 will cost them.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Yeah, this may just be the paranoid college student in me, but why do I see this being taken advantage of for textbooks? It's bad enough they release a new version just when you're finally ready to sell the book back to your campus bookstore, but updating possibly even quicker, new editions may keep coming out mid-course.
If they only make you pay once for the beta and for the full version when it is ready, as this one appears to work, that's okay I guess, but this could get way out of hand.
More efficient would be to release each chapter as and when it becomes beta-ready. If the publisher is greedy, then the chapters can come with some sort of expiry date so that the whole book cannot be assembled by the chapter collectors.
I'm just thinking like a publisher here... personally, I would want no kind of DRM or expiry date or any such crap on these things.
print on demand sucks. you generally get reamed up the a**, get locked into a contract where you can't publish through a standard publishing house for X number of years, and make little to no money. ALSO when agents and/or publishing houses see that you've published via POD they will immediately turn their noses at you.
POD and digital publishing are theoretically good ideas that just can't seem to get their wings. the public simply doesn't want to read a book from their computer or from a handheld. that's really too bad because agents and publishers are so rarely accepting work these days.
nature loves variety::society hates it get your variety at http://www.monkeypantz.net
MJ not guilty? Wow!
(why buy a year-old Edition 1 of something, if you can have Edition 1.1.18?)
Easy. Because I need the information NOW. Because I want the physical copy that I can grab off a shelf any time I need it. Because there will always be a newer version coming out, and if I really need the book, I have to get it eventually.
Perhaps this trend will encourage people to be a bit more conservative about actually buying a book, but people who need a book will still buy it when they need it. Of course, this begs questions like... will we eventually get the x.0.1 updates for free somehow? Will publishing ever expand to such an extreme anyhow?
This seems a lot like what they did in the 17th cent. with the passing around of manuscripts before publishing--- just an observation.
When I first read the title, I thought it read "Books on Beta".
I'm not a doctor, but I play one in bed.
read subject ^^
Is it possible that the term "beta" has spread its wings beyond the computer? Beta means(at least to me) pre-release.
As weird as it sounds, a publicly moderated "bugtraq" forum for a new book would be highly interactive and interesting.
I am also wondering what happens in the long run? Would the authors' individuality be hopelessly spoiled by people camping (and/or some version of bot/scripting), or even just the will of the masses ruining the personal touch of one author?
Where would it end?
There is truth in humor.
I could see how this would work for technical/programming books, but for fiction novels this would be a terrible idea!
For a technical book it would be fantastic to reduce errors, and include input from potential readers about what they are still confused/unsure about.
For a fiction book I could see the publisher pushing the author out of his original imaginative story into an idiotic story that the "people" want.
I have read a few technical books that could definitely have used some input from it's potential audience, since the "experts" miss their target by so much!
What a grand idea. Let's dumb-down, mollify, coddle and all-around temper any possibility of having something 'different' and instead replace it with the infamous 'too many cooks' defense.
Honestly, how many books have you read, written by a committee, were worthy of the time spent reading them? Or movie-scripts written by 4 or more people?
I have nothing against collaboration, but let's be honest; it's easier for one person to innovate than it is for ten people to integrate.
"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
At least in math, all books are published this way, erleased first electronically to interested/knowledgeable people, or whoever feels like downloading it, then published after taking some comments
Will this content be free as in beer, or free as in Michael Jackson?
"At SourceBeat, we believe the traditional publishing model does not work in rapidly changing environments such as open source software. Traditional books take too long to go from author to bookshelf, and many times the books are outdated soon after release. Until now. SourceBeat is the first publisher to create always updated open source technology books, written by expert authors such as James Goodwill, Bill Dudney, Matt Raible and many others. Utilizing our "LiveBook(TM)" process, readers and subscribers are always sure of getting the most current information on each open source project.
How it works differently than the traditional publishing model is that instead of buying a static book, readers subscribe to a particular book for 12 months. The expert authors provide updates on their respective topics, ensuring the most relevant and current information on a project. No more buying multiple books on the same topic in order to cover the areas you need. In addition, as a subscriber you can interact with the author through list servers and weblogs. This way you can let them know your thoughts on current items and also what you would like to see in future updates."
Seems like a good model - I am planning on subscribing to Plone Live myself.
The internet encourages this sort of iterative, distributed approach. Witness Google, public betas of major OS releases, and the ultimate beta, Wikipedia, the encyclopedia that is never complete. Low cost communications let people provide useful feedback after testing/using the product and comparing against their expectations/needs/knowledge. Low cost communications also lets creators distribute patches/updates to inexpensively offer fixes to beta products.
Betas do come with a downside. The notion that one can release unfinished work and fix things latter leads to lower quality. Perfection may be the enemy of good-enough, but are betas god enough? What is clear is that beta-ing lowers the bar on the required quality of the first-time release. But if the creators are not careful they will leave too many problems for the post-beta period and produce seriously flawed products.
Ultimately however, the use of betas is inevitable (and good) because it reflects the rising complexity of the world. Things like a desktop OS or an encyclopedia are just too complex for one person/company to get right the first time. Feedback and assistance from end-users/customers plays a crucial role.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Maybe the incentive for making contributions is access to the final wiki version of the book. The publisher can still make money on the printed copies.
I am a fledgling author (I only have my first book published so far - looking for an agent for #2), and from my opinion I think that this is a horrible idea. Sure, on the surface the idea seems wonderful to allow lots of people to input their own two cents and correct mistakes, whether they be grammar or continuity based. However, that should all be done before it goes to the public.
If you put something out there in a rough form, people will read through it, and I imagine they would have one of two reactions. First, they will say "Ok, that was nice, it needed work" and then never read it again. Second, they will want to drive the direction of the story and turn it into their own. At the point, you get the too many cooks in the kitchen situation. It's a repeated fact in history that that stifles creativity...
I can only speak from the novel point of view -- I write fantasy. But, I personally think that there is something for releasing a finished product out to the masses, something for them to enjoy after you make it clean and tie up all the loose ends. That's what peer and editor reviews are for.
To put a different light on it, how frustrating is it with a game or a program that constantly needs new patches just to become tolerable to wade through? Allow me to get on my gamer's soapbox for a moment and say I want an actual finished product, not something that needs tons of work.
Now submitting teaser information or sample chapters to entice people, that's a different story.
"A wolf's eyes can see into your soul"
My writing
I'd hate to read the acknowledgments page in THAT book.
Statesmen serve to better the country and help the people.
Politicians serve to better themselves and help friends.
Having a Beta book seems appropriate... for a beta application framework, at version 0.12.1, and no sign of 0.2 on the horizon.
That said, rails has made it really easy to build new webapps for my job. It has replaced Filemaker for the stuff I use project after project.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
WTF?
Hello, We are writing to inform you of a vulnerability in the code on page 131 of Agile Web Development with Rails. We have promptly released a 2-page patch which you can order and apply to your book to fix the bug. We apologise for any inconvenience caused.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
You forgot- Get publicity on Slashdot!
Really its not just word-of-mouth, but free publicity on the internet and possibly other media outlets. Publicity gimmicks are an old type of book marketing, and the hype from this strategy probably outweighs other considerations
I can't believe they still charge you $22 for the digital copy. I think if I were going to review the book and help make sure it's a good book then I should get a more sizeable discount. Especially when their own description says its full of potentially hundereds of errors.
So far, it's been an awesome model. I've enjoyed comparing the two revisions and seeing the authors' notes. I hope they continue to do this.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I actually had a decent POD experience, at least as decent as it can go. I understand what you are saying and agree with a fair amount of it. However, I think the big thing as always is buyer beware.
I did my research and made sure about my rights. The first company that approached me regarding POD wanted to take a fistful of money (rather many fistfuls) and in the contract in tiny letters it said that they retained all the rights. Needless to say, I rejected them right away. The company that I did wind up going with was not as big of a name, but it got the job done and did a good job with it too. Plus, I have all the rights... at any time I can tell them to stop printing copies and sell them to another publisher. If it was made into a movie (yeah right! But it never hurts to dream), I would be the sole owner of the rights. Not all POD's are out to get you, but most definitely are.
As to the other comment about places thumbing their noses at you, it varies. I've had agents who have done just that. I've learned not to try and sell my current book, they're not interested in it. But, from my experience, they still are receptive to my other work. At least as receptive as agents ever are. The only thing they want to know about the first book is copies sold... if it's high enough their interested, otherwise they disregard it.
I spoke with a couple of authors before I went with an independent POD publisher. The feedback was generally that it is a huge roll of the dice. If you can sell enough copies, it will help you. If you don't sell enough, it will hurt you. There's also a middle ground where it does neither - that's where I'm stuck right now.
"A wolf's eyes can see into your soul"
My writing
lulu avoids many of the problems you mention. No getting locked in- no loss of control. As far as publishing houses turning their noses-- well if they are already doing that before you go the POD route, what's the difference?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
For *technical* non-fiction (meaning, hard sciences ONLY), that's fine. When it comes to anything else, for-fucking-get it. We pander enough to the lowest common denominator as it is.
It would be nice that registered users, with good karma could edit summaries to fix spelling, grammar and such, or flag stories as dupes. (I'm not saying that this story has some of those, just that i would like this feature implemented in slashdot)
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
This is a way of open-sourcing, so to speak, the editorial process. And as long as the author has final say ("What? That's a stupid suggestion!") it can still read as one person's voice, but a voice that has been refined by many eyes to eliminate the inevitable mistakes.
Take the time and do it right the first time. Get somebody who knows what they're doing to check it. Get somebody else who knows what they're doing to check them.
Crap like code errors is completely unacceptable. If you're writing books because you claim to be an expert on the subject, prove it and do it right.
Companies should be raising standards on publications, rather than eliminating them like New Riders. But even Addison Wesley puts out garbage.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Writer Bruce Eckel has been publishing his books as beta for several years now. Even though I could download his books series "Thinking in Java" and "Thinking in C++" for free I still bought the final versions in printed form. I think the final releases of these books really benefitted from the beta-releases.
Print on demand is largely vaporware. People have been predicting for the last 10 years that it would be the next big thing. The plain truth is that producing books in large quantities is extemely efficient, and producing them one at a time is extremely inefficient. The most common scenario people propose is that you're going to go into Barnes and Noble and ask them to print you a copy of a book that's on some really obscure topic, or is out of print. Well, the problem there is that there isn't any really simple, turnkey POD system, the people in Barnes and Noble are busy and don't have the necessary specialized skills, and it's a bookstore, not a factory or a workshop.
Find free books.
*hits reset button on buzz detector* I won't be buying that book. It might force me to think outside of the box and change my paradigm.
-Randy
It's not just that POD sucks. This is actually a *lousy* time to be writing technical books for publication on paper. I've written a raft of them in the past 20 years and have seen some rich and lean times, but these are the worst. The major book chains are relentlessly reducing the sizes of their computer book sections, meaning that they will buy fewer copies of fewer titles, which means that publishers will be choosing fewer titles from fewer authors, and will give less money to the authors they choose--who will tend *not* to be first-timers.
Basically, the computer book industry is moving from the anomaly of the 1990s, when anybody could get a computer book published (talent optional) to the place where SF and most other categories are now: You'd better have a major reputation forged elsewhere (magazines, online forums, university research, successful startup, etc.) that spills over into computer books, or nobody's going to return your phone calls. The walls between book categories are high: Even though I've sold a quarter million computer books, I can't get anybody to even look at my SF novel.
It's relatively easy to establish your own press based on POD technology, and it will get easier in the future. If you know how to reach your audience, you can sell direct and make money on relatively few books, perhaps more money than you could make as a new author with a conventional publisher. There's research and work involved but others have done it, and if your topic is narrow enough it may be the only route to take near-term. (2-5 years.)
Good luck and don't give up.
--73--
--Jeff Duntemann
Given the growing popularity of Wikibooks, the books that we not only can comment on, but also write and edit, it would seem that at least in terms of non-fiction writing, in just a few short years, we may not ever have to spend another nickel on such books again.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
I've got the Rails book, and it's amazing how many people have contributed errata and feedback (which by the way was quickly written and deployed with Ruby on Rails, the subject of the book). This might be the perfect way for authors to polish their books to a mirror shine before printing, especially if the content is something readers are eager for.
It could also be a way publishers can gauge the success of a book. No public feedback, not likely the book will sell well. Enthusiastic readers can participate in something they think is worthwhile, which of course can create favourable word of mouth.
Either way, the idea of an errataWiki and forum-like discussion on each section of a book is an interesting idea, and one that will be explored by other authors.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
Cafepress.com have a print on demand system that allows anyone to make and sell their own books on demand and change the manuscript at any time, and thus fully enables the incremental versions of books that this story talks about. Hopefully some people will make use of it!
I remember seeing beta previews on the bookshelf sites in '98. Where's the news here?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
or even proofread, IMHO.
...
But, this might be a better method to produce textbooks in, as they so frequently become out of date before going to print, at least for new or rewritten chapters.
So, one can remain hopeful, even while being pessimistic as to the level of quality.
I buy all my automobiles in beta form - fun to watch them blow up when I put my key in the ignition, no? Who needs crash test dummies
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
see i even forgot to spell too cheap correctly, and typed it as to cheap.
oh well, beta post.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I would have prefered my own book (downloadable here, 8M pdf) to be available in paper form (publisher lost their nerve half way through the copyedit process). Thankfully the web offers an alternative delivery medium.
Ruby on Rails must be on the way out, seeing as the RoR people are hyping it on /. and trying to dump PDF files onto developers for $24 a pop.
Hey, I gotta watch here for ya, man! All kinds, you choose! Rolexes, all of 'em!
The Ruby on Rails book was done particularly well. They did most of the writing before it went beta. When you buy the beta book, you get a personalized PDF (to discourage further distribution), and eventually the PDF of the final book (as well as interim editions).
I was planning on buying the 'Dead Tree' version anyway as soon as it was released, so I sprung for the combo pack... Beta versions now, Final PDF and Dead Tree version when released.
I'm not sure this would work for every type technical book. Ruby on Rails might be unique because (a) it's become very popular very quickly and (b) there isn't definitive documentation yet and (c) the authors are considered experts in the field.
I don't think it would work for a Perl or a Python book, because there is already lots of quality documentation. I think it would work best rapidly developing projects.
I've seen Wikis used for similar projects (the Textpattern book at Textpattern.net comes to mind) but as much as I love wikis (and I do love wikis) good writing isn't easy.
A small group of skilled people are better than a large group of not-so-skilled people. It sounds like a universal truth... I wonder if this law has got a name (like Murphy or Godwin).
My father is a blogger.
I purchased this book in Beta form and am very pleased with having the option. It's a great book so far and I would have hated waiting until August.
The second release, however, quickly brought a problem to my attention. I'd printed out the entire first pdf to read, but had no way of knowing what pages had changed in the second beta. This means re-printing 500+ pages just to get an updated copy.
If this truly becomes a trend in publishing, someone needs to come up with a proper way of documenting changes between revisions!
What kind of geeks do we have here?? :) IBM has published a line of hands-on books for many years that machine room mole-people live and die by.. the IBM Redbooks series. Go to http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/ and click Drafts in the left Navigation pane. There are currently 39 books in progress, all from multiple authors who are actively seeking feedback.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Good idea to increase the sales of your book. Is it one of the authors or the publisher who posted on slashdot?
I investigated various ways in which my book could be made available in paper form. The various self publishing companies don't go above 500-700 pages, and then not always in larger page sizes. Ok, I could split the material in two, but at the moment I am not inclined to put the effort in.
I was also surprised at how poor a deal the existing self publishing companies offer. Most want an upfront payment, the author pays for the copyediting and layout, and ends up with a royalty that is not much better than that usually offered by a 'proper' publisher. Who would accept such a deal? The term 'vanity' publishing is very apt.
"1) There will be more word of mouth, so more people will hear about it"
Obviously all those eBooks wouldn't have done so well published as a paper book.
"2) Some people will buy it because they read some of it and like the content but prefer the format of the book (so that they can read it in the bathroom maybe, what do i know)."
What is it with geeks and the bathroom?
"3) Some people will read it and decide that they either don't like it, or that they are satisfied with just having the book in its electronic format."
Good thing eye doctors are cheaper than electronic books.
I've coauthored a textbook which was made available on the web as a .PDF. Hundreds of individuals contacted us and downloaded the draft of the textbook, but we received very few useful comments in return. The only really good feedback came from a few instructors who were teaching courses using the draft of the book.
Isn't RoR free and open source, as in free beer?
Here are some free mirrors for the book: Agile Web Development With Rails. Surprised to see that it's available in paper version too for almost nothing. Doesn't look very sturdy though.
Can we spell draft kids?
D-R-A-F-T. An unfinished book was called a draaaaaaaaft.... Very good boys and girls. Now that we have an internets we call every unfinished item a "BETA".
I work for a technical doc company that produces documentation for a number of companies... We do things a little different since most our products are offered free to go along with hardware. I'm not an author as you can tell by my spelling but I do work on the production / management side of things so I do see this from a different view. We release all our Beta docs to registered users (people who have the hardware) to go over the content. This allows them to get a sneakpeak at the hardware and software before it is even released and the information we get back from them is way way better than we used to get from the hardware teams. You have to make sure you have a good beta program setup though as some people just take the material and you never hear back from them. We do sell some of our books in print form but nearly every book is also offered off our website in PDF for free download. (However free mostly just because you have a hardware license) These online docs are upgraded on the fly and allow for books to always be kept up to date. Three years ago everyone wanted the printed materials but these days we hardly print a thing because people are realizing they get the most up to date materials by downloading them. With PDA, laptops, etc most people are just grabbing the latest versions using them and then just erase the file until he next time they need it. I was a student as well and agree with people who are saying its annoying when text books chance editions. I think we are going to see that changing in the future.. Publishers are going to start offering licenses to their books online. So you can buy a license and can always get the latest version for free. It will not be in print form but the publishing companies are starting to see there is profit in non-printable formats. I'll tell you too working on the production side of things it is so much nicer to just throw a PDF on a server than send to a printer. Yes people might pirate them but that's why they need to give added features. A few places already offer really great online quizzes that go with their printed materials and offer updated versions of their printed materials on the web. To sum it up beta testing with the public is great for book that don't have huge value themselves. But I'd never put one of our books out for public beta if we are going to turn around and sell it for a few thousand..
I've learned not to try and sell my current book
"try to sell".
they still are receptive to my other work. At least as receptive as agents ever are.
"work, at".
if it's high enough their interested
"they're".
That's what I get for being another victim to the curse of hammering out my ideas and posting them without taking the time to proofread what I wrote. It's a case of stream of consciousness writing. I guess that's what the preview button is for. My lesson is learned.
"A wolf's eyes can see into your soul"
My writing