I've tried both NetBeans and Eclipse and I don't get the point.
For me, both are too intrusive on the development process. I have a file with some program, script, or data and I want to edit it. Maybe this file will be fed to some type of filter, or is in some form that the editor does not "know" about. Maybe it is from one of my "projects" or maybe is a random file that I want to edit or examine.
It seems like in these situations, the typical IDE wants to know what "project" this file belongs to, or wants to *copy* this file from its working directory to some IDE owned part of the filesystem. Like I've made some commitment to never use other editors again, so I won't mind that the "real" copy of this file will now live off of some IDE owned directory now. I don't understand why an IDE can't keep what ever type of metadata it wants its own namespace but let me keep my working file in whatever place suits me.
It also seems that the point of these IDE's is to enable people to program who need crutches to do so. It seems with the excess supply of labor, it is now possible to hire people who don't need this type of help. I would question the wisdom of hiring someone who cannot build a mental model of the system they are working on, or need "wizards" that insert boilerplate "hello world" programs to get you started. Yet, I've seen plenty of job postings that seem to suggest that knowing how to use a particular IDE is equivalent to knowing the language itself.
That is not to say some automation like completion are not good. The less typing the better. But there is a difference between saving keystrokes and enabling people who don't know what they are doing. It is also interesting to me that the types of people who rely on their editor to know how to program are the same types who end up wasting more time navigating through a bunch of menus per lines of code written.
Its like the person who uses some GUI filemanager rather than a shell with file completion abilities. Witness the shell user change directories before the GUI users hand even reaches the mouse. While a GUI filemanager is a good tool to enable a secretary who doesn't care to learn how to use a computer, it is a sad statement when an IDE is used to enable a programer who doesn't care to learn how to program.
Yeah, I wouldn't go to OSNews looking for informed advice. You would think a site called "OSNews" would be about schedulers, memory managers, network stacks, etc... but it is actually about screenshots, shiny buttons, and other fluff.
If the only critera you have is how things look and don't have any motivation to dig deeper, it is pretty hard to evaluate the importaint stuff.
You know, I only started getting interviews after I started following this advice. For two years after I graduated, I was sending out dozens of resumes a day for two years without a bite (not including the two month period where I gave up).
Then I decided, I was throwing too much of my time and getting nothing in return, so I decided that I would only reply to a maximum of one job posting per day.
So I would look through the job postings, tossing aside those that asked for 10 years of Java experience, or seemed to be written by assholes. It is a waste of time to reply to people who won't be able to decipher your resume and see how you are qualified. It is also a waste of time to apply for jobs that you will hate.
I also found that the interestes I persued in my free time ended up paying off. Just reading articles linked from Slashdot over the years has provided me with a lot of useful background knowledge.
Working on personal projects that interest you is also a way of gaining useful knowlege. Don't just do stuff you think will make you marketable. Do the kinds of things you would like to get paid to do. Learning how to use the latest buzzword compliant technology is okay too, but only as long as you are truly interested. Learn for the sake of learning, not to please some HR drone.
When I finally did find my first "real" job, I knew from the minute I read the job posting that the job was going to be mine. It was if the posters knew me, so I was able to respond in an informal way that showed what I was all about.
Now stitting on the other end of the resume process, I see that most responses show no personality, whatsoever. You shouldn't put on a phony go-getter personality. In the end, being honest about who I am worked best. Do you really want to work for people who would go for that kind of thing anyway?
Just because we do not hold the same value system are the larger culture does not mean we do not have our own set of taboo thoughts. Various thoughts about Apple, Linux, SCO, Microsoft, etc... are heresy, yet it is acceptable to say FreeBSD is dying.
There are some things you cannot say on Slashdot without being modded down. Question the conventional wisdom and the censors will be all over you. Thats why some of the most insightful comments on here are from anonymous cowards or modded down.
Occasionally the phrase "I know I will be moderated down for this, but..." is used to help the moderator reflect on his own assumptions more objectively. Interestingly, most of the time these comments would only be shocking in the larger culture, but are accepted as the conventional wisdom in ours.
I don't know about that. Like Slashdot, Groklaw has a lot of interesting material of little immediate practical value. Thats why I love it.
I find that now I waste a significant portion of my day compulsively reloading Groklaw. And when the stories on Grocklaw slow down for hollidays and the like, I find myself jittery and confused.
I know Slashdot will lag 24 hours and I need the play-by-play as it happens.
Darl, the VPs, and the board of directors are the people who should never be hired again. This fiasco is directly related to their job performance. I don't think most companies will trust Darl to lick an envelope once the meltdown is complete.
I can understand someone who continues working there while trying to find another job.
Linux Answering Machine
on
Linux Toys
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I wasted a couple weeks setting up a Linux voice mail system at work. Looking at the VOCP website, it seemed like an easy proposition, but it was quite a challenge to find a modem that actually worked with vgetty. In the end the Zoom 2949C and some hacking on the vgetty tools got the system working.
The system is kind of cool though. You can set it up to email an ogg or mp3 to the voicemail box owner.
It also seemed to confuse the telemarketers too, before installing the system, we got several calls a day, now we get one or two a week.
Yes, some lines from Linux 0.01 exist in the 2.6.0 kernel. Many are '}' and are in fact claimed by SCO to be lifted straight from the SysV source code.
Parent post proves the authors point about Mac users being fanatical.
So someone doesn't share your worldview, stop being a baby and get over it.
This is not to say that I agree with the articles premise either, but it seems far more constructive to discuss the merits here (which I am sure he will read) rather than sending out a bunch of angry emails.
I have to agree. I am especially offended when economists say that programmers will just need to be "retrained" with new "skill-sets".
There seem to be several misconceptions about programming in the general public.
I get a lot of "you're a programmer, what is this pointy arrow on my screen for?" kinds of questions from random acquaintances. This type of question reveals that people know that programming has something to do with all the shiny buttons on their screen, but know little else.
With such a superficial understanding of what computer science is all about, it is not hard to see how members of the general public might think programming is something anyone can be trained to do, rather than something that requires individuals with a special type of thought process.
They also think programming is just a way to make a living, much as their jobs might be. They don't realize that many of us have been doing this since a very early age and will continue to do it job or no job. I don't think many secretaries would go home and type up letters just for the fun of it.
Professionals outside the world of engineering usually get a degree in communications or the like because it is the path of least resistance to getting a college degree, not because they are particularly interested. They probably will be "trained" when they reach the workforce, because their degrees didn't endow them with any particular abilities.
On a different note I wonder how our leaders could feel comfortable allowing know-how to be developed abroad. Maybe we control the purse strings now, but if we lose the ability to do, rather than just manage, there will come a time when they will do it without us. I also wonder why they believe that managerial positions will be immune from outsourcing. It seems like you could outsource positions like CEO and get just as little for less.
When I was in grade school, there were always some alpha kids for whom rule and reason did not seem to apply. They could get their way by plugging their ears saying "LaLaLaLa" or whining until everyone gave in out of frustration.
I looked forward to the day when we would all be adults and those who had nothing to contribute would be swept aside. Sadly, I see that these bratty children are now all grown up, in charge and their manipulative behaviors are polished. And still the smart people are groveling at their feet for attention.
Darl and his kind are not concerned about programmers making money on software. Hell, thats what India is for. He is worried that people like him, who couldn't write "Hello World" to save their life, will not be able to make money off software anymore.
Notice he does not mention the word "Jobs" once in his open letter but mentions corporate interestes like IP and DMCA ad nauseum. Those represent the devices by which a company can stop producing and start fleecing.
And by God, what could be more American than that. Our Founding Fathers(TM), Congress (a division of Worldcom), and Supreme Court(R) have determined this is what is best for us. To question them would be unpatriotic and would be allowing the Terrorists to win.
When I was in elementary school, we started having an Apple IIe per classroom by the time I was in the 4th grade. Unfortunately the only thing they were used for was typing and math drills. Today, I see mixed results, I can type fast but still don't know my times tables.
A bright spot was in the third grade when an adult used to bring in a computer and we would each get a chance to program in LOGO. I always felt like there wasn't enough time and we were barely scratching the surface. I longed for more time to experiment.
The problem, as it seemed to me back then, was that teachers didn't know what to do with these foreign objects that were dropped into their classrooms. Thus, they tried to make them do something they did understand, transforming them into automated drill sargents.
If teachers could be made to understand a little Lisp programming, for example, and were convinced to relinquish some of their control and rote-memorisation scripts, kids could really learn something about computers.
I thought polititions were smart about naming bills (USA Patriot) so that they could dupe the electorate into thinking anyone who didn't vote for it was the spawn of Satan.
I don't know how signing a bill called "CAN Spam" is going to help anyone get re-elected.
I like it that the definition of the word "Hacker" is only known by those concerned with the hacker community. By understanding the "true" definition of the word hacker, a person demonstrates their association with the community. No need for special hacker emblems.
If the word "hacker" was understood outside the hacker community, the word would just be co-opted. Look at the terms "engineer" as in "software engineer". These words can now be used to refer to professions ranging from floor salesman the local computer store to a person who "uses scientific knowledge to solve practical problems".
Just imagine the job postings if the general population understood the positive connotations of the word hacker:
Phone Support Hacker desired: Must have Microsoft Certification in moving the pointy arrow around on the screen. 2 months experience with the on-off button a plus.
I switched to Debian several years ago after reading a Slashdot article announcing a new Debian release. I had already moved from Slackware to RedHat before that, and was never really impressed with the latter. I fell in love with Debian right away, and was always impressed with the project's desire to do things right.
Debian has its own ways of doing things, and as with any other distribution, you will be more productive if you learn and conform to these conventions rather than fighting them.
I wonder how many people will give Debian a try after reading this article. Hopefully those who do will find the experience as rewarding as I have;-)
I agree that a lot of people got went into the tech field without a deep interest and know that there are a lot of incompetent people out there.
You are wrong to characterise those who have had a hard time finding work the last couple years as being incompetent. Consider people just graduating who haven't even been able to get to the interview because managers would prefer to hire people with "proven" c-level abilities than take a chance on those with "no experience" (i.e. fresh out of college) who could easily make up for their lack of experience with their intelligence.
Maybe you are looking for the wrong type of people. Your "sharpen you skillset" comment makes me think you value those who go to "intensive 5 day seminars" to learn things rather than finding those who learned things because they were interested.
Also, just a note about wasting the time of resume readers. Maybe job posters should stop wasting everyone's time posting jobs that have already been filled. They should stop wasting our time by assigning the task of reading coverletters and resumes to those who are only qualified to be glorified buzzword detectors.
I am not against your idea of giving some sort of programming problem or puzzle as part of the interview. It seems like a good way to separate those who can bs from those that do.
When I finally did get an interview, I did get the chance to work out some problems and did get the job. If I had only been given the chance to exibit my competence from the beginning, maybe I wouldn't have been out of work for so long.
"...You don't have to be a programmer at all to see copying had occurred..."
This is the scary part to me. Some judge who might not know a mouse from a monitor will be deciding what copying is. What they show could be well known or otherwise inconsequential, but the judge would not have the background to understand that.
By "you dont have to be a programmer", I think he also means, you dont have to be informed about the history and issues involved. Hopefully the judge will be capable of rational thought and will not be distracted by the Chewbacca defence that SCO will inevitability throw out.
One time, I had an economics professor become disgusted with the publisher of our text during the second week of school. He decided to teach the class from the reader so he had us all take our books back to the bookstore. This class was heald in the second largest lecture hall on campus, so hundreds of books came back.
I would be surprised if the publisher didn't get the message. It would be cool if some schools found a way to wield the size of their student body to force prices down. For example, they could make it a policy to encourage alternative texts (instructor written readers, freely available, reasonably priced) over ones that are clearly overpriced. I think if booksellers saw a mass defection, they would start making deals quickly.
Slashdot Mirror
I've tried both NetBeans and Eclipse and I don't get the point.
For me, both are too intrusive on the development process. I have a file with some program, script, or data and I want to edit it. Maybe this file will be fed to some type of filter, or is in some form that the editor does not "know" about. Maybe it is from one of my "projects" or maybe is a random file that I want to edit or examine.
It seems like in these situations, the typical IDE wants to know what "project" this file belongs to, or wants to *copy* this file from its working directory to some IDE owned part of the filesystem. Like I've made some commitment to never use other editors again, so I won't mind that the "real" copy of this file will now live off of some IDE owned directory now. I don't understand why an IDE can't keep what ever type of metadata it wants its own namespace but let me keep my working file in whatever place suits me.
It also seems that the point of these IDE's is to enable people to program who need crutches to do so. It seems with the excess supply of labor, it is now possible to hire people who don't need this type of help. I would question the wisdom of hiring someone who cannot build a mental model of the system they are working on, or need "wizards" that insert boilerplate "hello world" programs to get you started. Yet, I've seen plenty of job postings that seem to suggest that knowing how to use a particular IDE is equivalent to knowing the language itself.
That is not to say some automation like completion are not good. The less typing the better. But there is a difference between saving keystrokes and enabling people who don't know what they are doing. It is also interesting to me that the types of people who rely on their editor to know how to program are the same types who end up wasting more time navigating through a bunch of menus per lines of code written.
Its like the person who uses some GUI filemanager rather than a shell with file completion abilities. Witness the shell user change directories before the GUI users hand even reaches the mouse. While a GUI filemanager is a good tool to enable a secretary who doesn't care to learn how to use a computer, it is a sad statement when an IDE is used to enable a programer who doesn't care to learn how to program.
Yeah, I wouldn't go to OSNews looking for informed advice. You would think a site called "OSNews" would be about schedulers, memory managers, network stacks, etc... but it is actually about screenshots, shiny buttons, and other fluff.
If the only critera you have is how things look and don't have any motivation to dig deeper, it is pretty hard to evaluate the importaint stuff.
You know, I only started getting interviews after I started following this advice. For two years after I graduated, I was sending out dozens of resumes a day for two years without a bite (not including the two month period where I gave up).
Then I decided, I was throwing too much of my time and getting nothing in return, so I decided that I would only reply to a maximum of one job posting per day.
So I would look through the job postings, tossing aside those that asked for 10 years of Java experience, or seemed to be written by assholes. It is a waste of time to reply to people who won't be able to decipher your resume and see how you are qualified. It is also a waste of time to apply for jobs that you will hate.
I also found that the interestes I persued in my free time ended up paying off. Just reading articles linked from Slashdot over the years has provided me with a lot of useful background knowledge.
Working on personal projects that interest you is also a way of gaining useful knowlege. Don't just do stuff you think will make you marketable. Do the kinds of things you would like to get paid to do. Learning how to use the latest buzzword compliant technology is okay too, but only as long as you are truly interested. Learn for the sake of learning, not to please some HR drone.
When I finally did find my first "real" job, I knew from the minute I read the job posting that the job was going to be mine. It was if the posters knew me, so I was able to respond in an informal way that showed what I was all about.
Now stitting on the other end of the resume process, I see that most responses show no personality, whatsoever. You shouldn't put on a phony go-getter personality. In the end, being honest about who I am worked best. Do you really want to work for people who would go for that kind of thing anyway?
I would be surprised if George W could even turn on a computer, but he could probably "put the off button on"
If we wanted physical exertion, we would go outside and play with the rest of the kids.
Wow Apple can't win. Not only do the Christians
so do the Satanists!
Just because we do not hold the same value system are the larger culture does not mean we do not have our own set of taboo thoughts. Various thoughts about Apple, Linux, SCO, Microsoft, etc... are heresy, yet it is acceptable to say FreeBSD is dying.
There are some things you cannot say on Slashdot without being modded down. Question the conventional wisdom and the censors will be all over you. Thats why some of the most insightful comments on here are from anonymous cowards or modded down.
Occasionally the phrase "I know I will be moderated down for this, but..." is used to help the moderator reflect on his own assumptions more objectively. Interestingly, most of the time these comments would only be shocking in the larger culture, but are accepted as the conventional wisdom in ours.
I don't know about that. Like Slashdot, Groklaw has a lot of interesting material of little immediate practical value. Thats why I love it.
I find that now I waste a significant portion of my day compulsively reloading Groklaw. And when the stories on Grocklaw slow down for hollidays and the like, I find myself jittery and confused.
I know Slashdot will lag 24 hours and I need the play-by-play as it happens.
I wonder if at some point phone numbers and gateways to the conventional phone system as we know them today become irrelevant.
Darl, the VPs, and the board of directors are the people who should never be hired again. This fiasco is directly related to their job performance. I don't think most companies will trust Darl to lick an envelope once the meltdown is complete.
I can understand someone who continues working there while trying to find another job.
I wasted a couple weeks setting up a Linux voice mail system at work. Looking at the VOCP website, it seemed like an easy proposition, but it was quite a challenge to find a modem that actually worked with vgetty. In the end the Zoom 2949C and some hacking on the vgetty tools got the system working.
The system is kind of cool though. You can set it up to email an ogg or mp3 to the voicemail box owner.
It also seemed to confuse the telemarketers too, before installing the system, we got several calls a day, now we get one or two a week.
Hmm, it seems that the date that a system's clock overflows is inversely proportional to the date that the system has outlived its usefulness
Yes, some lines from Linux 0.01 exist in the 2.6.0 kernel. Many are '}' and are in fact claimed by SCO to be lifted straight from the SysV source code.
Parent post proves the authors point about Mac users being fanatical.
So someone doesn't share your worldview, stop being a baby and get over it.
This is not to say that I agree with the articles premise either, but it seems far more constructive to discuss the merits here (which I am sure he will read) rather than sending out a bunch of angry emails.
I have to agree. I am especially offended when economists say that programmers will just need to be "retrained" with new "skill-sets".
There seem to be several misconceptions about programming in the general public.
I get a lot of "you're a programmer, what is this pointy arrow on my screen for?" kinds of questions from random acquaintances. This type of question reveals that people know that programming has something to do with all the shiny buttons on their screen, but know little else.
With such a superficial understanding of what computer science is all about, it is not hard to see how members of the general public might think programming is something anyone can be trained to do, rather than something that requires individuals with a special type of thought process.
They also think programming is just a way to make a living, much as their jobs might be. They don't realize that many of us have been doing this since a very early age and will continue to do it job or no job. I don't think many secretaries would go home and type up letters just for the fun of it.
Professionals outside the world of engineering usually get a degree in communications or the like because it is the path of least resistance to getting a college degree, not because they are particularly interested. They probably will be "trained" when they reach the workforce, because their degrees didn't endow them with any particular abilities.
On a different note I wonder how our leaders could feel comfortable allowing know-how to be developed abroad. Maybe we control the purse strings now, but if we lose the ability to do, rather than just manage, there will come a time when they will do it without us. I also wonder why they believe that managerial positions will be immune from outsourcing. It seems like you could outsource positions like CEO and get just as little for less.
When I was in grade school, there were always some alpha kids for whom rule and reason did not seem to apply. They could get their way by plugging their ears saying "LaLaLaLa" or whining until everyone gave in out of frustration.
I looked forward to the day when we would all be adults and those who had nothing to contribute would be swept aside. Sadly, I see that these bratty children are now all grown up, in charge and their manipulative behaviors are polished. And still the smart people are groveling at their feet for attention.
Darl and his kind are not concerned about programmers making money on software. Hell, thats what India is for. He is worried that people like him, who couldn't write "Hello World" to save their life, will not be able to make money off software anymore.
Notice he does not mention the word "Jobs" once in his open letter but mentions corporate interestes like IP and DMCA ad nauseum. Those represent the devices by which a company can stop producing and start fleecing.
And by God, what could be more American than that. Our Founding Fathers(TM), Congress (a division of Worldcom), and Supreme Court(R) have determined this is what is best for us. To question them would be unpatriotic and would be allowing the Terrorists to win.
When I was in elementary school, we started having an Apple IIe per classroom by the time I was in the 4th grade. Unfortunately the only thing they were used for was typing and math drills. Today, I see mixed results, I can type fast but still don't know my times tables.
A bright spot was in the third grade when an adult used to bring in a computer and we would each get a chance to program in LOGO. I always felt like there wasn't enough time and we were barely scratching the surface. I longed for more time to experiment.
The problem, as it seemed to me back then, was that teachers didn't know what to do with these foreign objects that were dropped into their classrooms. Thus, they tried to make them do something they did understand, transforming them into automated drill sargents.
If teachers could be made to understand a little Lisp programming, for example, and were convinced to relinquish some of their control and rote-memorisation scripts, kids could really learn something about computers.
I thought polititions were smart about naming bills (USA Patriot) so that they could dupe the electorate into thinking anyone who didn't vote for it was the spawn of Satan.
I don't know how signing a bill called "CAN Spam" is going to help anyone get re-elected.
If the word "hacker" was understood outside the hacker community, the word would just be co-opted. Look at the terms "engineer" as in "software engineer". These words can now be used to refer to professions ranging from floor salesman the local computer store to a person who "uses scientific knowledge to solve practical problems".
Just imagine the job postings if the general population understood the positive connotations of the word hacker:
I switched to Debian several years ago after reading a Slashdot article announcing a new Debian release. I had already moved from Slackware to RedHat before that, and was never really impressed with the latter. I fell in love with Debian right away, and was always impressed with the project's desire to do things right.
;-)
Debian has its own ways of doing things, and as with any other distribution, you will be more productive if you learn and conform to these conventions rather than fighting them.
I wonder how many people will give Debian a try after reading this article. Hopefully those who do will find the experience as rewarding as I have
I agree that a lot of people got went into the tech field without a deep interest and know that there are a lot of incompetent people out there.
You are wrong to characterise those who have had a hard time finding work the last couple years as being incompetent. Consider people just graduating who haven't even been able to get to the interview because managers would prefer to hire people with "proven" c-level abilities than take a chance on those with "no experience" (i.e. fresh out of college) who could easily make up for their lack of experience with their intelligence.
Maybe you are looking for the wrong type of people. Your "sharpen you skillset" comment makes me think you value those who go to "intensive 5 day seminars" to learn things rather than finding those who learned things because they were interested.
Also, just a note about wasting the time of resume readers. Maybe job posters should stop wasting everyone's time posting jobs that have already been filled. They should stop wasting our time by assigning the task of reading coverletters and resumes to those who are only qualified to be glorified buzzword detectors.
I am not against your idea of giving some sort of programming problem or puzzle as part of the interview. It seems like a good way to separate those who can bs from those that do.
When I finally did get an interview, I did get the chance to work out some problems and did get the job. If I had only been given the chance to exibit my competence from the beginning, maybe I wouldn't have been out of work for so long.
"...You don't have to be a programmer at all to see copying had occurred..."
This is the scary part to me. Some judge who might not know a mouse from a monitor will be deciding what copying is. What they show could be well known or otherwise inconsequential, but the judge would not have the background to understand that.
By "you dont have to be a programmer", I think he also means, you dont have to be informed about the history and issues involved. Hopefully the judge will be capable of rational thought and will not be distracted by the Chewbacca defence that SCO will inevitability throw out.
Sounds to me like now he is just being RMS's puppet.
I wonder if this guy just repeats the last thing he heard without question.
You have to be certified to use MS Office? What is next? Certification for to use the mouse? To turn the computer on?
One time, I had an economics professor become disgusted with the publisher of our text during the second week of school. He decided to teach the class from the reader so he had us all take our books back to the bookstore. This class was heald in the second largest lecture hall on campus, so hundreds of books came back.
I would be surprised if the publisher didn't get the message. It would be cool if some schools found a way to wield the size of their student body to force prices down. For example, they could make it a policy to encourage alternative texts (instructor written readers, freely available, reasonably priced) over ones that are clearly overpriced. I think if booksellers saw a mass defection, they would start making deals quickly.