[ And an EU court can't arrest anybody in Redmond. ]
I think that right now with the US gov. trying hard to keep the global legal system together to fight terrorism, is a bad time to expect the US courts to refuse a valid extradition request. The US and EU courts are trying to act as one and if MS shows contempt they are liable to have to answer for it. I think that they will just push the boundary more than they should, just as they always do, and then do the minimum they have to.
How about the corporate offices all over Europe. They cannot sell the whole show overnight and just disapear. In any case they could not do this as they would be moving from civil to criminal proceedings and be liable to extradition.
Yes, but they still would not be complying with the court order and would be subject to severe penalties. They could sell 4 copies of the new product and then go but then the cat would be out of the bag already.
[ MS would threaten it, ]
How to really offend a European court. They are not in the US, they have to respect the court or they will suffer. They do not have political clout behind them anymore. In fact if they threaten to do something like that it could easily be seen as contempt.
[ "The fines for noncompliance will be lower than the cost of damage to our business if we do comply. So we're going to eat the fines." ]
This would constitute contempt and could result in a lot more than just a higher fine. The person that makes the decision not to comply can be taken to court and can be sent to prison. I think that no high paid executive wants to do that. The fine for non-compliance is a fine for dragging your feet, now they are no longer dragging their feet, they have decided to not comply they enter a whole new game. I do not know exactly what has been said but if they said 'no' they are incredibly stupid and liable to real penalties. They should say 'we are going to, but we are having real difficulty and need more time. Maybe if the court could possibly help us by changing things a little we would be able to sort this out sooner'. Any refusal is bad but to ask for help is good.
[ A hole in a compressed air tank equals instant explosion. ]
Err, no. A hole of any size equals a leak and a loss of pressure. I am not sure which science friction books (pun intended) you have been reading but I have suffered many leaks in high pressure air tanks and in only one case was it dangerous. That was when a friend dropped his tank on the side of the pool and the regulator valve broke off and the tank left the scene rapidly. The type of gas was irrelevant as any high pressure tank would have taken the same trip. Do you think we would be allowed to strap these things to our backs if they were as dangerous as you say?
Petrol vapour on the other hand is very explosive so even an empty petrol tank can explode.
I am in Thailand right now and I have in the pack in front of me, next to the PC, the localised versions of XP and office and they put some windows up in Thai and others up in English. I am talking from very current experience. I have not tried Japanese so I cannot argue but I know that the Thai version keeps reverting to English and I had to install Office on another machine here that had English removed and the install refused, telling me that it needed English.
There is more reason for China etc. to switch than most people think of. Try installing Windows or Office on a machine and ignoring any text written in English. Even after you have got the OS on, when you try to install Office, if you have set the machine to Chinese (or whichever) it pops up windows in English to ask you questions. China and most other countries in this area realise that they want to be able to have an operating system that suits their needs (which Microsoft does not) and to be able to use that OS to communicate in a local as well as a global economy. Many people over here do not understand a word of English. Many educated people do but computers are now in the homes of those that do not, so they want something they can use. Linux allows them to create that OS and stay in touch with the rest of the world. Cost has nothing to do with it because as has been said elsewhere, I can get a copy of any software for 2-3 dollars per CD regardless of title. If they bring out Red Dragon Linux, or whatever, it will still cost the same as XP. The cost of bringing out tailor made versions of XP would be ridiculous, so most asian countries have got together and decided to work on their release of Linux that can be tailored to each countries needs. They know that they will be able to do the same with OO etc.
Brazil may considering the cost as they are trying to get away from the 2 dollar per CD image (no pun intended) but the same sentiment will still be there when they try to install Office. I have had Office refuse to install on a machine that no longer had English on it.
In WWII we made friends with Stalin even though we knew him to be an an evil dictator. We did this because he was able to provide the greatest fighting force available at the time to fight Hitler. After the war we went back to hating him for being an evil dictator.
[ Rather than check/uncheck a few simple preference options, you condemn the whole software package and abandon it. ]
No, I simply said that 'I' do not like it, not that I condemn the whole package or abandon it. I frequently use Word but I prefer to use OO even though, as I stated, that is not perfect either. Have you thought about getting help?
[ OO.org doesn't default to my desired preferences! It is obviously inferior! Back to MS-Word for me!" See how silly that sounds? ]
That does sound silly, I am glad that I did not write anything so stupid. Do you always jump to the defence of Word so agressively or only when you are on/. ?
I find that I am constantly being annoyed by green wiggly lines when I use Word, so much so that I hate using it. It is not just the grammar checker that is a problem but when I am at a new machine and I start a sentence with eBay or any other company name that uses a lower case first character, Word insists on changing it for me. These are my main reason for not liking Word. OO at least lets me write what I want by default and lets me ask for help when I want it (but then it refuses to let me insert correct dates, dd/MMM/yy, in my text etc.). Bring back WordStar PLEASE:)
I would like to congratulate your team on this. I am happy with.rpm but I know that I am not everyone and I am sure that there are lots of people find rpm too confusing (my mother for one) as well as there are all those that will continue to prefer 'make install'. I think that Linux is about choice, there is a choice for everyone to take up the flavour that they like. There are those that shout about X is best etc. but that is what I mean. They have made their choice and like it. Most of those that shout the loudest are those that have spent time finding what is best for them with little regard to those that do not want to spend that time and just want something that is easy to use. I care about those that want the easy options as well (like my mother:) even though it may not be my choice.
Even though I am happy with.rpm and 'make' I may find that if everything I want starts to arrive in.package format I may become more of a convert because I do not always want to do things the hard way just to prove I can.
I have never had a problem with Yahoo but I do not have a Hotmail account because they religously cancelled my account when I failed to log in for a couple of months which was often while I was travelling but my Yahoo account was always there when I came back so I have the same account that I had from when they started.
It would still be agent provocatuer to hire a hit man. He would simply say that he only became a hit man because you talked him into becoming one. Therefore it is you (the prosecution) that created the crime and are therefore the criminal. It may happen in the US but it is illegal in Europe.
Yeah, I remember reading about the American constitution in history. It lasted for hundreds of years and then someone called bin Lala got it scrapped a few years ago. I can't remember if he was Democrat or Republican but he made a lot of changes to American politics.
The problem has already arisen in that these databases are already becoming global. I no longer have the link but a man was arrested in England a couple of years ago for a crime commited in Italy. He was arrested because his DNA matched the DNA found at a crime scene. He had never left England in his life and did not have a passport. He had a big fight on his hands because we have already got to the stage were we assume that DNA is infalable when it is not. Just like fingerprints, we match so many points (16 with fingerprints) and eventually if the database becomes large enough you get duplicates. It is folly to say that no 2 are the same just that the probablity is high that we will not get 2 the same. The problem is caused by human error in that we match on a limited number of points and have such a large database.
If you were on a jury, would you convict on DNA evidence alone? I think most people would because of the media hype about how perfect the system is and we will get a lot of innocent people in prison with these databases.
It is has restrictions on the license that do not comply with the spirit of the ruling. To me it sounds very much like MIcrosoft used American lawyers in a European court. US lawyers will play with the wording but a European court will know that they understood what was meant regardless of the words that used and that they are treating the court with contempt. Something that is frowned upon.
Your final point is more of a troll as there is nothing to suggest that MS should open up their own OS just that they should not try to control how people connect their own computers together. MS wants to force people to only use MS and that is the abuse of their monopoly. If they do not remedy this the punishment will get worse.
Not really, they had a choice. They could have complied with the spirit of the initial order and done what was required. Instead they chose to flagerantly flout the order to try to make the order benefit themselves, which is an insult to the court. They are now in a worse situation as they do not have any sympathy of the court. They only have themselves to blame.
I think that the idea is that Brazil is a developing country and that in the future they may want to develop some software to suit their needs. In the long term Linux is a cost saving even if in the short term the kids do not want it because there are not enough games. Maybe if they take the plunge the Brazilian kids could be the Linux games developers of the future given that they could not hope to get into the Windows games development arena as the investment required would be prohibative. The whole of the 2nd world is realising that Windows does not address their needs and the 3rd world does not care because they will just copy anything they want.
Slashdot Mirror
[ And an EU court can't arrest anybody in Redmond. ]
I think that right now with the US gov. trying hard to keep the global legal system together to fight terrorism, is a bad time to expect the US courts to refuse a valid extradition request. The US and EU courts are trying to act as one and if MS shows contempt they are liable to have to answer for it. I think that they will just push the boundary more than they should, just as they always do, and then do the minimum they have to.
How about the corporate offices all over Europe. They cannot sell the whole show overnight and just disapear. In any case they could not do this as they would be moving from civil to criminal proceedings and be liable to extradition.
IANAL etc. etc. but
[ They can take their ball and go home. ]
Yes, but they still would not be complying with the court order and would be subject to severe penalties. They could sell 4 copies of the new product and then go but then the cat would be out of the bag already.
[ MS would threaten it, ]
How to really offend a European court. They are not in the US, they have to respect the court or they will suffer. They do not have political clout behind them anymore. In fact if they threaten to do something like that it could easily be seen as contempt.
[ "The fines for noncompliance will be lower than the cost of damage to our business if we do comply. So we're going to eat the fines." ]
This would constitute contempt and could result in a lot more than just a higher fine. The person that makes the decision not to comply can be taken to court and can be sent to prison. I think that no high paid executive wants to do that. The fine for non-compliance is a fine for dragging your feet, now they are no longer dragging their feet, they have decided to not comply they enter a whole new game. I do not know exactly what has been said but if they said 'no' they are incredibly stupid and liable to real penalties. They should say 'we are going to, but we are having real difficulty and need more time. Maybe if the court could possibly help us by changing things a little we would be able to sort this out sooner'. Any refusal is bad but to ask for help is good.
[ A hole in a compressed air tank equals instant explosion. ]
Err, no. A hole of any size equals a leak and a loss of pressure. I am not sure which science friction books (pun intended) you have been reading but I have suffered many leaks in high pressure air tanks and in only one case was it dangerous. That was when a friend dropped his tank on the side of the pool and the regulator valve broke off and the tank left the scene rapidly. The type of gas was irrelevant as any high pressure tank would have taken the same trip. Do you think we would be allowed to strap these things to our backs if they were as dangerous as you say?
Petrol vapour on the other hand is very explosive so even an empty petrol tank can explode.
but I have copyright to that story!!! Where is my lawyer? I will sue CmdrTaco for every cent!!!
I am sitting at one of the machines that I installed yesterday using the Thai localised version of XP and the 'Start' button says 'Start'.
blank CD is sold here for about 35 cents of dollar (one real).
How much is the CD with XP burnt onto it?
I am in Thailand right now and I have in the pack in front of me, next to the PC, the localised versions of XP and office and they put some windows up in Thai and others up in English. I am talking from very current experience. I have not tried Japanese so I cannot argue but I know that the Thai version keeps reverting to English and I had to install Office on another machine here that had English removed and the install refused, telling me that it needed English.
There is more reason for China etc. to switch than most people think of. Try installing Windows or Office on a machine and ignoring any text written in English. Even after you have got the OS on, when you try to install Office, if you have set the machine to Chinese (or whichever) it pops up windows in English to ask you questions. China and most other countries in this area realise that they want to be able to have an operating system that suits their needs (which Microsoft does not) and to be able to use that OS to communicate in a local as well as a global economy. Many people over here do not understand a word of English. Many educated people do but computers are now in the homes of those that do not, so they want something they can use. Linux allows them to create that OS and stay in touch with the rest of the world. Cost has nothing to do with it because as has been said elsewhere, I can get a copy of any software for 2-3 dollars per CD regardless of title. If they bring out Red Dragon Linux, or whatever, it will still cost the same as XP. The cost of bringing out tailor made versions of XP would be ridiculous, so most asian countries have got together and decided to work on their release of Linux that can be tailored to each countries needs. They know that they will be able to do the same with OO etc.
Brazil may considering the cost as they are trying to get away from the 2 dollar per CD image (no pun intended) but the same sentiment will still be there when they try to install Office. I have had Office refuse to install on a machine that no longer had English on it.
Sun Tsu was not an arab.
In WWII we made friends with Stalin even though we knew him to be an an evil dictator. We did this because he was able to provide the greatest fighting force available at the time to fight Hitler. After the war we went back to hating him for being an evil dictator.
I think that Microsoft and Stalin are a similar.
[ Let me get this straight. ]
:)
/. ?
It would be good
[ Rather than check/uncheck a few simple preference options, you condemn the whole software package and abandon it. ]
No, I simply said that 'I' do not like it, not that I condemn the whole package or abandon it. I frequently use Word but I prefer to use OO even though, as I stated, that is not perfect either. Have you thought about getting help?
[ OO.org doesn't default to my desired preferences! It is obviously inferior! Back to MS-Word for me!" See how silly that sounds? ]
That does sound silly, I am glad that I did not write anything so stupid. Do you always jump to the defence of Word so agressively or only when you are on
I find that I am constantly being annoyed by green wiggly lines when I use Word, so much so that I hate using it. It is not just the grammar checker that is a problem but when I am at a new machine and I start a sentence with eBay or any other company name that uses a lower case first character, Word insists on changing it for me. These are my main reason for not liking Word. OO at least lets me write what I want by default and lets me ask for help when I want it (but then it refuses to let me insert correct dates, dd/MMM/yy, in my text etc.). Bring back WordStar PLEASE :)
I would like to congratulate your team on this. I am happy with .rpm but I know that I am not everyone and I am sure that there are lots of people find rpm too confusing (my mother for one) as well as there are all those that will continue to prefer 'make install'. I think that Linux is about choice, there is a choice for everyone to take up the flavour that they like. There are those that shout about X is best etc. but that is what I mean. They have made their choice and like it. Most of those that shout the loudest are those that have spent time finding what is best for them with little regard to those that do not want to spend that time and just want something that is easy to use. I care about those that want the easy options as well (like my mother :) even though it may not be my choice.
.rpm and 'make' I may find that if everything I want starts to arrive in .package format I may become more of a convert because I do not always want to do things the hard way just to prove I can.
Even though I am happy with
'I need an alarm clock that is trained in the art of self defence'...
I have never had a problem with Yahoo but I do not have a Hotmail account because they religously cancelled my account when I failed to log in for a couple of months which was often while I was travelling but my Yahoo account was always there when I came back so I have the same account that I had from when they started.
You forgot the photo album with unlimited space...
It would still be agent provocatuer to hire a hit man. He would simply say that he only became a hit man because you talked him into becoming one. Therefore it is you (the prosecution) that created the crime and are therefore the criminal. It may happen in the US but it is illegal in Europe.
Why would we scoff at you for arriving late as long as you bring the beer and pizza...
Yeah, I remember reading about the American constitution in history. It lasted for hundreds of years and then someone called bin Lala got it scrapped a few years ago. I can't remember if he was Democrat or Republican but he made a lot of changes to American politics.
The problem has already arisen in that these databases are already becoming global. I no longer have the link but a man was arrested in England a couple of years ago for a crime commited in Italy. He was arrested because his DNA matched the DNA found at a crime scene. He had never left England in his life and did not have a passport. He had a big fight on his hands because we have already got to the stage were we assume that DNA is infalable when it is not. Just like fingerprints, we match so many points (16 with fingerprints) and eventually if the database becomes large enough you get duplicates. It is folly to say that no 2 are the same just that the probablity is high that we will not get 2 the same. The problem is caused by human error in that we match on a limited number of points and have such a large database.
If you were on a jury, would you convict on DNA evidence alone? I think most people would because of the media hype about how perfect the system is and we will get a lot of innocent people in prison with these databases.
It is has restrictions on the license that do not comply with the spirit of the ruling. To me it sounds very much like MIcrosoft used American lawyers in a European court. US lawyers will play with the wording but a European court will know that they understood what was meant regardless of the words that used and that they are treating the court with contempt. Something that is frowned upon.
Your final point is more of a troll as there is nothing to suggest that MS should open up their own OS just that they should not try to control how people connect their own computers together. MS wants to force people to only use MS and that is the abuse of their monopoly. If they do not remedy this the punishment will get worse.
[ but isn't $5M a day a bit, oh i dunno, steep? ]
Not really, they had a choice. They could have complied with the spirit of the initial order and done what was required. Instead they chose to flagerantly flout the order to try to make the order benefit themselves, which is an insult to the court. They are now in a worse situation as they do not have any sympathy of the court. They only have themselves to blame.
[ majority of computer users AREN'T programmers ]
I think that the idea is that Brazil is a developing country and that in the future they may want to develop some software to suit their needs. In the long term Linux is a cost saving even if in the short term the kids do not want it because there are not enough games. Maybe if they take the plunge the Brazilian kids could be the Linux games developers of the future given that they could not hope to get into the Windows games development arena as the investment required would be prohibative. The whole of the 2nd world is realising that Windows does not address their needs and the 3rd world does not care because they will just copy anything they want.
[ Tony Bliar ]
It is the common spelling for him now and ooh so apt.