If one taxpayer isn't paying their fair share, then either:
1. The government reduces its budget for defense and other services, or...
2. Everyone else has to pay more in taxes.
That is funny...govt. reduces its budget. Dude, you are assuming we have a balanced budget. We don't. The govt isn't going to let the amount of tax revenue determine how much it spends...esp. with Bush in the Whitehouse.
You are applying economics as if the USA was run like a corperation. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly depending on how you look at it) it isn't...the constraints that hold a corperation in line don't apply.
But here we have a case where one business -- Microsoft -- is taking advantage of the rest of us, due to the fact that their product sells for 100 times what it costs to manufacture, thus allowing Microsoft to declare a tax deduction that is 100 times what it actually costs them to make a donation.
This particular tax rule is skewing the economy. Microsoft is making a killing from it, and other businesses and taxpayers are getting scr**ed.
This is even funnier!! You think MS is the ONLY case where this happens? HAH! You are singling out MS for whatever reason, but you must realize that ALMOST ALL large corperations do this! Feel free to dump on MS, but not for this...it is standard business practice.
Also, this doens't do anything to the economy. It is much larger that one corperation or one sector or one market... There are too many factors that impact it to list, but this is definitely not one of them.
Seriously, people...lets look at the big picture here. The problem here isn't MS (for once it really isn't), the problem is the tax code and how it can be applied. Don't hate a business for taking every advantage it can get...they all do it...hate the law and politician that lets them. You don't like it? Try to change it. Hah. Good luck and God Speed with that.
I'd like to see some proof that MS hasn't paid any federal taxes for the past 5 years...I doubt the govt. would let any large corp. get away with that. Esp when their net profit is so high.
You said it man. Do I agree with the system? Hell no. In no way am I defending MS or any other corperation who does this...just trying to explain it.
Laws exist for big business...hence all the lobbyists and special interest groups in DC. The laws and codes are out there for their benefit cuz they have politians in their pocket. It's kinda funny. The mob used to do this and it was called racketeering, yet the modern corps get away with it...blah.
So you are saying that this year the IRS can say, we want to take in 100 billion in taxes and if they are short for whatever reason, they can go to the masses and say "you owe us some more money."?
I think not. If you mean what value companies can write their products off at, then yes, I agree. It is as you stated.
I see your point, and it is valid, but I think it is also flawed.
There are safeties set up in the system (don't ask me what because I don't know) to prevent abusive behavior like this...
But to comment on your original point about selling VS for 1000 and thus having to pay 100 less in tax... That is great! The cost to produce was 5 bucks, so they just 'made' 95 dollars by donating it! But wait, isn't it much better for them to SELL the software for 1000?
995 dollars in profit of which 99 dollars is lost in tax. This produces much more money they 'making' 95 dollars by donating it. I don't know about you, but I'd rather sell the software...makes me more money.
I probably could have worded my example better, but you should get the jist.
MS isn't concerned about screwing the govn't out of tax money, they are concerned about maximizing their profit. Donating is not a way to maximize your profit in most cases...
Um, no. The IRS won't go to someone else to 'make up' the loss of income.
The government doesn't look at what they could make vs what they do make...that is not only illegal but would be fucking harsh. If the govt. could do what you just described they could come up with some arbitrary value that they want to pull in for the year in taxes and if they don't meet it then go to corps. or people and say "you owe us more..."
You're absolutly correct... Which is probalby why there are laws saying how much you can actually donate. Maybe it is X% of the money you've brought in or it maxes out at a certain number depending on the firms size. I don't know all the details nor do I want to.
Then there are other repercussions as well, such as if you show 0 profit your shareholders are going to be furious so the stock price will drop and then employees with 'profit sharing' will see no bonuses because technically there is no profit.
I'm not sure on all the details, but between the balance sheet and regulations and tax law there are safteys to prevent abuse.
The key is to hire an excellent tax lawyer to find the loopholes.:) Again, something that all big business does...at least in my experience.
I don't know the law here, but I'm going to say no. I think you have to prove opperating costs and that there is actually a market for your software to be able to donate it for a tax write off.
Otherwise anyone with any skills at building anything would never pay taxes.
Plus I think you would have to set up a corperation to be able to donate a product. An individual can donate money and property, but I'm not sure about donating a 'manufactured' product.
They get to write off the retail value of the software. It is not profit for MS. It is written off as pre-tax dollars thereby decreasing the profit that is taxed. That is all.
If they make 1000 dollars lets say and donated 100 dollars. Their taxable income is 900 dollars. In no way are they 'making' profit here.
Money transferred from other taxpayers to MS? I don't understand that statement. If the 100 dollars worth of software was to be purchased in a store, that is post tax dollars. You take your income (already taxed) and buy the software. No where is there money transfering from other taxpayers to MS.
In other words money MS pays a little less in taxes (which is totally seperate from profit, net worth, etc...) and the party recieving the donation recieves something for free.
A similar comparison is when you donate your old car. The blue book value to sell it is 2000 dollars lets say, yet the blue book value to buy it (from a dealership, or what the dealer would sell you the car for) is 4000. When you donate, you get to write off the 4000 dollars from your pre-tax dollars. In other words it appears you made 4000 dollars less than you actually did for the year, thereby reducing the amount fo your taxable income.
On the flip side, if you sold the car and got the 2 grand for it, you have to pay tax on the 2 grand as income. The trickey part is figuring out which way saves you more money in the end.
One of the reasons so many corperations / weathly people donate to charities and what not during the year. If you can get into a lower tax bracket then it is definitely worth it.
That being said, this most likely isn't the case for MS or other Big Business because they take in so much revenue that it would be nearly impossible for them to get their income down to a lower tax bracket. MS and other companies do it for good PR and to intice the market to use them in the future.
Now before you blast MS for this, please realize that ALL BIG BUSINESS DOES THIS!!! Allstate, GE, GM, Sony, etc... It is just good business.
What do you mean? The massive sphere of light we see at the center of other galaxies are millions and millions of stars...just like in our.
When you look out and see "The Milky Way" you are looking toward the center of our galaxy where most of our stars are at. The fact that there are massive black holes at the center doesn't have anything to do with the light we see...why would it?
Nope. The sky is blue because of the atmosphere. The Sun's light hits the earth and bends round the atmosphere. Blue just happens to have the ideal wavelength so that it becomes the dominate color and that is what we see.
As for the ocean. Last I checked the ocean looks pretty black from space, except the shallows, but I'm not sure why those appear blue. Perhaps the other poster is correct that it reflects the sky.
I totally agree. It is sad that that is the case. One of the biggest problems with America's 'democracy' is that not enough citizens care enough to take a true stance and try to change policy.
There is so much red tape and beaurocracy that the average person feels lost and insignificant in the system. Probably one of the many reasons we have such crappy voting turnout.
But you are right. It is easy to associate a people with their govts. policy. And I'm sure that in many cases the two sync up. I guess what I'm trying to say is the war on terrorism is not necessarily one of them. I'd go as far to say that we're evenly split on who supports this stuff and who doesn't.
Can you guess what side of the coin I'm on?
Oh, and to hit on your racism point...that is sad too. We have made *great* progress in that area, but we still have troubles. Not it get into another political argument, but I think that part of the racism problem is that everyone is so quick to jump on that bandwagon. If something bad happens to an african american, for example, before you know it half of the rights organizations jump on the case and start screaming racism, even if that isn't the case. I see it getting much better in the next generation or so.
Ahh well.
Oh! man, i keep forgetting all the things I wanted to say... The genuine kindness thing. I hope you're right! I just hanv't seen a super kind act without alterior motives in a while, so I'm losing faith. Hopfully the Iran EQ will prove me wrong.
Everyone was awesome. At almost every pub I went to, my friends and I hooked up with some locals and had a blast.
This was all over. Edinburgh, York, London... I love it over there. For a while Sapient (some energy company) was recruiting a bunch of Americans to come to Manchester to work on some technology...even they were super (though I guess, they should be since they were doing the hiring...)
I dunno. From those we talked to, it seemed most people knew the difference between the average citizen of the US and the govt. After all, the generalization over here is that you guys are our super allies...I mean Blair and GB is right there with the US right now. And, the impression I got on my vacation was that Blair is despised.
I dunno. Maybe a lot has changed in the past 6 months. Either way, it is sad that we're all thought of that way. Just because you are a citizen of the country doesn't mean you agree with what is going on. Half of the world's problems are based off of blind assumptions and stereotyping like this. There is a distinction between the nation, and the people.
I've always thought that if you hate a nation, protest the government, not the people. Just think of 9/11, do the terrorists hate US policy, or the 99% of the people that have little influence on the policy?
Don't generalize. The English are just as arrogant as we (and lets not even mention the French) are in the international community (at least from what I've seen), however I've only met nice generous people on my trips over to England (unfortunatly I can't say that for the French). I love 'em!
It is never a good idea to generalize a country's citizens by how the nation itself interacts in the international community.
There is one goal in the international community: Protect ones interests. Every nation is guilty of this. There is no genuine act of kindness internationally from any country. Nations may do nice things for other countries and allies, but I guarentee there are reasons other than the humanity of others behind it. This is true in problaby every senario.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. We're not talking about fingerprinting every person that comes into the USA. We're talking about people who need VISA's to get in.
Therefore, if you are from Europe, Canada, Japan, Singapore, etc... where all you need is a passport, you're fine.
So relax, this is a minor inconvience for only some people, and frankly I'm surprised it took this long for us to have something like this. I would have even expected this elsewhere by now...
Too bad the game is suppose to be super short (something like 5 or 6 hours long only) and that the multiplayer only supports 4 people or so to play against each other.
I'm really disapointed with ID on this title. To me it looks like they more or less sold out and created DoomIII for the engine alone. This way they can sell it to other game makers, the fact that DoomIII is attached to it is more for a way to show off the engine than anything.
That being said, I'm still going to upgrade my computer so I can play it.:)
Please, if anyone has any knowledge to the contrary about this one let me know.
What I find funny, is that when I first heard of Mythic I thought it was a spin off game to Myth. Granted Mythic is a company, not a game, but still...
This has to be one of the most frivolous lawsuits out there. Mythology cannot be copyrighted, and like you said, if you want to name your company something as generic as Mythica, well, that's your own fault...
Actually, that isn't true. There are a lot of of independent movies out there. You just don't get to hear about them because their budget is low and they can't do a wide release nor spend a lot on advertising.
Wow. How did this become a race issue? I'd like to think most people are above that...apparently some of us aren't. Sounds to me like you are the racist one.
The fact that they are Indian and not 'white' doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I just don't like the fact that my job is in jeopardy.
Also, Dell moving the service back here is very understandable to me. Most people who call up CS are already pissed off. The last thing they want is to deal with people reading off scripts or speaking in an accent that is difficult to understand.
I interviewed for a job in England once. My interviewer had a strong accent. It didn't make me want the job any less, it just made me concentrate more on what he was saying. But this is an interview, not a CS call. If Joe Smith's router doesn't work, he isn't doesn't want to have to concentrate on what I'm being told, he just wants it to work.
Wow. I'm so glad you just lumped all Americans into the same group... how... American of you.
I for one hate people who put their kids on medication for ADD. That diognosis is given out way to quick and often. Most kids that 'have' ADD really don't. They just need more structure and what not.
So don't go grouping all people together because that is what you hear or what the meida presents. The biggest problem with the world today is misinformation. Don't give in. Make your own judgements by personal experience, and if you can't then stay open-minded.
Slashdot Mirror
How does claiming stock options have anything to do with paying tax?
If one taxpayer isn't paying their fair share, then either:
1. The government reduces its budget for defense and other services, or...
2. Everyone else has to pay more in taxes.
That is funny...govt. reduces its budget. Dude, you are assuming we have a balanced budget. We don't. The govt isn't going to let the amount of tax revenue determine how much it spends...esp. with Bush in the Whitehouse.
You are applying economics as if the USA was run like a corperation. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly depending on how you look at it) it isn't...the constraints that hold a corperation in line don't apply.
But here we have a case where one business -- Microsoft -- is taking advantage of the rest of us, due to the fact that their product sells for 100 times what it costs to manufacture, thus allowing Microsoft to declare a tax deduction that is 100 times what it actually costs them to make a donation.
This particular tax rule is skewing the economy. Microsoft is making a killing from it, and other businesses and taxpayers are getting scr**ed.
This is even funnier!! You think MS is the ONLY case where this happens? HAH! You are singling out MS for whatever reason, but you must realize that ALMOST ALL large corperations do this! Feel free to dump on MS, but not for this...it is standard business practice.
Also, this doens't do anything to the economy. It is much larger that one corperation or one sector or one market... There are too many factors that impact it to list, but this is definitely not one of them.
Seriously, people...lets look at the big picture here. The problem here isn't MS (for once it really isn't), the problem is the tax code and how it can be applied. Don't hate a business for taking every advantage it can get...they all do it...hate the law and politician that lets them. You don't like it? Try to change it. Hah. Good luck and God Speed with that.
I'd like to see some proof that MS hasn't paid any federal taxes for the past 5 years...I doubt the govt. would let any large corp. get away with that. Esp when their net profit is so high.
You said it man. Do I agree with the system? Hell no. In no way am I defending MS or any other corperation who does this...just trying to explain it.
Laws exist for big business...hence all the lobbyists and special interest groups in DC. The laws and codes are out there for their benefit cuz they have politians in their pocket. It's kinda funny. The mob used to do this and it was called racketeering, yet the modern corps get away with it...blah.
So you are saying that this year the IRS can say, we want to take in 100 billion in taxes and if they are short for whatever reason, they can go to the masses and say "you owe us some more money."?
I think not. If you mean what value companies can write their products off at, then yes, I agree. It is as you stated.
I see your point, and it is valid, but I think it is also flawed.
There are safeties set up in the system (don't ask me what because I don't know) to prevent abusive behavior like this...
But to comment on your original point about selling VS for 1000 and thus having to pay 100 less in tax... That is great! The cost to produce was 5 bucks, so they just 'made' 95 dollars by donating it! But wait, isn't it much better for them to SELL the software for 1000?
995 dollars in profit of which 99 dollars is lost in tax. This produces much more money they 'making' 95 dollars by donating it. I don't know about you, but I'd rather sell the software...makes me more money.
I probably could have worded my example better, but you should get the jist.
MS isn't concerned about screwing the govn't out of tax money, they are concerned about maximizing their profit. Donating is not a way to maximize your profit in most cases...
Um, no. The IRS won't go to someone else to 'make up' the loss of income.
The government doesn't look at what they could make vs what they do make...that is not only illegal but would be fucking harsh. If the govt. could do what you just described they could come up with some arbitrary value that they want to pull in for the year in taxes and if they don't meet it then go to corps. or people and say "you owe us more..."
I'm getting a headache.
You're absolutly correct... Which is probalby why there are laws saying how much you can actually donate. Maybe it is X% of the money you've brought in or it maxes out at a certain number depending on the firms size. I don't know all the details nor do I want to.
:) Again, something that all big business does...at least in my experience.
Then there are other repercussions as well, such as if you show 0 profit your shareholders are going to be furious so the stock price will drop and then employees with 'profit sharing' will see no bonuses because technically there is no profit.
I'm not sure on all the details, but between the balance sheet and regulations and tax law there are safteys to prevent abuse.
The key is to hire an excellent tax lawyer to find the loopholes.
I don't know the law here, but I'm going to say no. I think you have to prove opperating costs and that there is actually a market for your software to be able to donate it for a tax write off.
Otherwise anyone with any skills at building anything would never pay taxes.
Plus I think you would have to set up a corperation to be able to donate a product. An individual can donate money and property, but I'm not sure about donating a 'manufactured' product.
Damn. You beat me to it. Very well said.
They get to write off the retail value of the software. It is not profit for MS. It is written off as pre-tax dollars thereby decreasing the profit that is taxed. That is all.
If they make 1000 dollars lets say and donated 100 dollars. Their taxable income is 900 dollars. In no way are they 'making' profit here.
Money transferred from other taxpayers to MS? I don't understand that statement. If the 100 dollars worth of software was to be purchased in a store, that is post tax dollars. You take your income (already taxed) and buy the software. No where is there money transfering from other taxpayers to MS.
In other words money MS pays a little less in taxes (which is totally seperate from profit, net worth, etc...) and the party recieving the donation recieves something for free.
A similar comparison is when you donate your old car. The blue book value to sell it is 2000 dollars lets say, yet the blue book value to buy it (from a dealership, or what the dealer would sell you the car for) is 4000. When you donate, you get to write off the 4000 dollars from your pre-tax dollars. In other words it appears you made 4000 dollars less than you actually did for the year, thereby reducing the amount fo your taxable income.
On the flip side, if you sold the car and got the 2 grand for it, you have to pay tax on the 2 grand as income. The trickey part is figuring out which way saves you more money in the end.
One of the reasons so many corperations / weathly people donate to charities and what not during the year. If you can get into a lower tax bracket then it is definitely worth it.
That being said, this most likely isn't the case for MS or other Big Business because they take in so much revenue that it would be nearly impossible for them to get their income down to a lower tax bracket. MS and other companies do it for good PR and to intice the market to use them in the future.
Now before you blast MS for this, please realize that ALL BIG BUSINESS DOES THIS!!! Allstate, GE, GM, Sony, etc... It is just good business.
What do you mean? The massive sphere of light we see at the center of other galaxies are millions and millions of stars...just like in our.
When you look out and see "The Milky Way" you are looking toward the center of our galaxy where most of our stars are at. The fact that there are massive black holes at the center doesn't have anything to do with the light we see...why would it?
Nope. The sky is blue because of the atmosphere. The Sun's light hits the earth and bends round the atmosphere. Blue just happens to have the ideal wavelength so that it becomes the dominate color and that is what we see.
As for the ocean. Last I checked the ocean looks pretty black from space, except the shallows, but I'm not sure why those appear blue. Perhaps the other poster is correct that it reflects the sky.
At any-rate, there you have it.
I totally agree. It is sad that that is the case. One of the biggest problems with America's 'democracy' is that not enough citizens care enough to take a true stance and try to change policy.
There is so much red tape and beaurocracy that the average person feels lost and insignificant in the system. Probably one of the many reasons we have such crappy voting turnout.
But you are right. It is easy to associate a people with their govts. policy. And I'm sure that in many cases the two sync up. I guess what I'm trying to say is the war on terrorism is not necessarily one of them. I'd go as far to say that we're evenly split on who supports this stuff and who doesn't.
Can you guess what side of the coin I'm on?
Oh, and to hit on your racism point...that is sad too. We have made *great* progress in that area, but we still have troubles. Not it get into another political argument, but I think that part of the racism problem is that everyone is so quick to jump on that bandwagon. If something bad happens to an african american, for example, before you know it half of the rights organizations jump on the case and start screaming racism, even if that isn't the case. I see it getting much better in the next generation or so.
Ahh well.
Oh! man, i keep forgetting all the things I wanted to say... The genuine kindness thing. I hope you're right! I just hanv't seen a super kind act without alterior motives in a while, so I'm losing faith. Hopfully the Iran EQ will prove me wrong.
I was there in June of '03.
Everyone was awesome. At almost every pub I went to, my friends and I hooked up with some locals and had a blast.
This was all over. Edinburgh, York, London... I love it over there. For a while Sapient (some energy company) was recruiting a bunch of Americans to come to Manchester to work on some technology...even they were super (though I guess, they should be since they were doing the hiring...)
I dunno. From those we talked to, it seemed most people knew the difference between the average citizen of the US and the govt. After all, the generalization over here is that you guys are our super allies...I mean Blair and GB is right there with the US right now. And, the impression I got on my vacation was that Blair is despised.
I dunno. Maybe a lot has changed in the past 6 months. Either way, it is sad that we're all thought of that way. Just because you are a citizen of the country doesn't mean you agree with what is going on. Half of the world's problems are based off of blind assumptions and stereotyping like this. There is a distinction between the nation, and the people.
I've always thought that if you hate a nation, protest the government, not the people. Just think of 9/11, do the terrorists hate US policy, or the 99% of the people that have little influence on the policy?
Just my $.02
I'm offended that you didn't include ORD in your list of examples. It is the largest.
Don't generalize. The English are just as arrogant as we (and lets not even mention the French) are in the international community (at least from what I've seen), however I've only met nice generous people on my trips over to England (unfortunatly I can't say that for the French). I love 'em!
It is never a good idea to generalize a country's citizens by how the nation itself interacts in the international community.
There is one goal in the international community: Protect ones interests. Every nation is guilty of this. There is no genuine act of kindness internationally from any country. Nations may do nice things for other countries and allies, but I guarentee there are reasons other than the humanity of others behind it. This is true in problaby every senario.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. We're not talking about fingerprinting every person that comes into the USA. We're talking about people who need VISA's to get in.
r am/index.html
Therefore, if you are from Europe, Canada, Japan, Singapore, etc... where all you need is a passport, you're fine.
At least that is what CNN is reporting:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/05/fingerprint.prog
So relax, this is a minor inconvience for only some people, and frankly I'm surprised it took this long for us to have something like this. I would have even expected this elsewhere by now...
This is totally off topic, but how can a republican be socialist? Isn't socialism way to the left, on the liberal or democrate side of the scale?
Dude you have no idea. I even went to lengths to d/l the theme. Are they working on a new one?
Too bad the game is suppose to be super short (something like 5 or 6 hours long only) and that the multiplayer only supports 4 people or so to play against each other.
:)
I'm really disapointed with ID on this title. To me it looks like they more or less sold out and created DoomIII for the engine alone. This way they can sell it to other game makers, the fact that DoomIII is attached to it is more for a way to show off the engine than anything.
That being said, I'm still going to upgrade my computer so I can play it.
Please, if anyone has any knowledge to the contrary about this one let me know.
What I find funny, is that when I first heard of Mythic I thought it was a spin off game to Myth. Granted Mythic is a company, not a game, but still...
This has to be one of the most frivolous lawsuits out there. Mythology cannot be copyrighted, and like you said, if you want to name your company something as generic as Mythica, well, that's your own fault...
Actually, that isn't true. There are a lot of of independent movies out there. You just don't get to hear about them because their budget is low and they can't do a wide release nor spend a lot on advertising.
Wow. How did this become a race issue? I'd like to think most people are above that...apparently some of us aren't. Sounds to me like you are the racist one.
The fact that they are Indian and not 'white' doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I just don't like the fact that my job is in jeopardy.
Also, Dell moving the service back here is very understandable to me. Most people who call up CS are already pissed off. The last thing they want is to deal with people reading off scripts or speaking in an accent that is difficult to understand.
I interviewed for a job in England once. My interviewer had a strong accent. It didn't make me want the job any less, it just made me concentrate more on what he was saying. But this is an interview, not a CS call. If Joe Smith's router doesn't work, he isn't doesn't want to have to concentrate on what I'm being told, he just wants it to work.
Wow. I'm so glad you just lumped all Americans into the same group ... how ... American of you.
I for one hate people who put their kids on medication for ADD. That diognosis is given out way to quick and often. Most kids that 'have' ADD really don't. They just need more structure and what not.
So don't go grouping all people together because that is what you hear or what the meida presents. The biggest problem with the world today is misinformation. Don't give in. Make your own judgements by personal experience, and if you can't then stay open-minded.