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Microsoft Revenue Up, Tries to Hook Third World
rocketjam writes "Microsoft reported record revenue for the last quarter Thursday due to increased sales of personal computers. Analysts were impressed with the company's overall performance, however they expressed concern about the continuing drop in unearned revenue, reflecting Microsoft's difficulty in signing up customers for long-term, sustainable business contracts. The $400 million drop in unearned revenue was less than the drop in the last quarter but still exceeded many analyst's expectations. The company's continuing problem in gaining long-term contracts is generally attributed to growing security concerns among customers and company's unwillingness to go along with Microsoft's 'Software Assurance' upgrade subscription plan." Also in the news: Microsoft is donating a pile of software to the United Nations -- retail value, $1 billion; wholesale value, maybe $1 million or so -- attempting to hook the Third World on Microsoft software.
Mikey adds "
Do you have any real data to back this up, Michael, or is this yet another of your unnecessary and unwanted biased editorials? Not that I'm in the pro-Microsoft camp but a 1000-to-1 profit line sounds pretty high. This is shoddy "journalism".
Feel free to bitch slap me and any subsequent thread.
Trolling is a art,
third world markets have very limited economies and are more open to alternative (read: kazaa) solutions, I can't see Microsoft ever making any significant profit there. If anything, they'll loose money faster than they'll gain it.
Microsoft would donate cash and the latest versions of its software, but the centers were free to expand with other software, including open source software such as Linux, Gates said.
"They'll be adding software from other providers. There's no exclusivity," he said. "Our role is to bring software that is quite popular, and happens to be ours."
Mod me down if you must, but I applaud Microsoft for this. While Linux or other open source OS use is definitely on the rise throughout the world, Windows is still the primary desktop of the business world, and this should indeed help people to enhance their skills and thus their marketability. You might say that they could potentially become "hooked" to Microsoft software, but again, there's no clause that limits them to using it, so I can only see this helping people. Bravo.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
retail value, $1 billion; wholesale value, maybe $1 million or so -- attempting to hook the Third World on Microsoft software.
That's the difference between Microsoft's wholesale and the MSRP? Amazing...and that's without the Software Assurance, I'd imagine. Man, am I in the wrong business or what?
I'm glad you're here to tell us these things.
A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
wow does that mean they usually make a 900% profit?
So next time I get busted by the cops and they accuse me of making my money by selling crack...I'll just insist that it is "unearned income"...wtf does that mean ...I obviously can't read
I've already said all that I have to say.
The third world are not that stupid. They know what accepting these microsoft hand-outs would mean.
Microsoft are acting just the same as the drug dealer offering the first fix for free.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
attempting to hook the Third World on Microsoft software
While I'm an avid Linux fan, why do I get the feeling that if a large Linux distributor like Red Hat arranged for a glut of software to be sent to UN countries, the headline would have been slightly more flattering? Something like "generously supplied Third World coutries with Linux software" instead of the negative connotations implied with "hook" that is attached to Microsoft's gesture.
> $400 million drop in unearned revenue
:))
call me old fashioned but shouldn't any
revenue be EARNED ???
We learn from history that we learn nothing from history - Tom Veneziano
"In the news today, something good happened to Microsoft. However, we at OSDN feel we must say something bad about them, so as not to focus less on the positive, more on the negative. Thank you for nodding your head."
I can't see that it really matters if Microsoft tries to "hook" the Third World on their products. The Third World can't _afford_ Microsoft prices (sort of what makes them Third World) and so if they are using Microsoft products it will be at no gain to the company's bottom line.
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
Considering international copyright laws, it seems like they'll have a lot of trouble with their software being in smaller countries. *I see a mass exodus of pirates to malasia* Maybe they'll look to the UN to defend their copyright laws and that's they're motive. I could see a volume of 1B dollars being reduced to maybe 10M dollars not 1M dollars though. Cheers, Scott
...is because they KNOW they have bad publicity. I dont think they expect to make a whole lot out of this market. But, it will help to make them look like the good guys.
Just my humble opinion,
SirLantos
The flying hamster of DOOM rains coconuts on your pitiful city.
Isn't giving away tons of Microsoft software like trafficking in weapons of mass infection? Shouldn't that be against some international law or something? I mean, what could be worse than a million extra Outlook and IE clients all unpatched and ready to act as virus broadcast stations?
:^D
Yeah, yeah, I know. Not fair. So mod me down.
Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
Since this is an obvious 'spark' for a flamewar (with Mikey, of course, throwing a bit of gasoline on the fire with made up numbers), why not go ahead and throw in a judge says that MS is holding up their end of the antitrust pact. That will not only generate the clicks that you guys want to see, but the incoming flamewar, perhaps, could break a new record on most posts on an article.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
For those of you who are not accountants:
Unearned revenue is actually not a P&L item. It is a liability on a companies Balance Sheet. If I prepay for a service the company has to recognize that revenue over the life of the service. So if I pay for a years worth of service from Microsoft for $12,000 they can recognize $1000 each month as revenue and reduce the liability by $1000 until the 12 months are up and the $12,000 has entirely hit the P&L.
The decrease in unearned revenue means that people aren't locking themselves into Microsoft but it doesn't reflect at all on what Microsofts future revenue will be. If anything companies that do end up sticking with Microsoft may pay more in the long run by not taking advantage of prepayment discounts.
And yes - I am CPA.
Which is it, MS is evil because they charge too much in third world countries or MS is evil because they gave away software to third world countries? Can somebody please explain this to me? MS has done plenty of things to rank as evil in my book, but this is ludicrous.
"however they expressed concern about the continuing drop in unearned revenue"
Isn't that the same as saying:
"however they expressed concern about the continuing rise in earned revenue"
Wow. I don't like the company but I'd like to share their FD's revenue concerns.
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
Street value = $1.25. If you've ever been to a software market in a developing country you know everything is pirated. I have no idea what earthly purpose this donation serves besides operating as a tax write-off and a bit of good publicity.
There is something to be said about a company that gains all of its profits from one product. IIRC the operating systen devision is the only one that does not have red numbers on the books. The media center, Xbox, and office are all funded by the operating system, again, IIRC.
"We have a programme for making our source code available to governments around the world so that they can ensure the technology supports the national security interests of the country and we are in open discussions with the Indian government as well," Peter Moore, chief technology officer, Microsoft Asia Pacific told reporters on the sidelines of an e-governance function orgainsed by Manufacturing Association of Information Technology.
He, however, added that the Indian government's response is still awaited.
Can you please provide a reference for your assertion of Microsoft's ability to remotely deactivate Windows XP? I think you just made it up.
Slashbot motto:
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Now, some slashbot will probably come back at me with:
Microsoft motto:
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
To which I would reply:
You sir, are a douchebag.
show him what shoddy moderation is about and do your best... maybe you can delete the whole thread and renumber the comments of the following threads..
I can't stand any criticsm of my fav. moderator here... His censorship is always so sensitive...
Are you on crack?
Microsoft can't "remotely deactivate" any version of Windows XP any more than I can reach into your hard drive with my mind and delete your OS. And even if they could, any government with an ounce of programming experience would DISABLE Windows Product Activation through a crack, or even use the Corporate version, which doesn't ask you for it.
Are you trying to imply that all software created in the United States should only be distributed to countries that the US explicitly approves of or something? That's not the way the world works, and that's certainly not the way that I would want MY software handled if I lived in the US.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Free Software that is available for free in China empowers individual citizens to do whatever they want. They can opress the masses (if they are part of the opressing regime) or fight for more freedom. It's up to them. Giving linux or openoffice to chinese govt. does not exclude individuals who might want to use it.
You don't really lose money on a sale you don't make -- unless you're using **AA style accounting methods, that is. Someone in a 3rd world country running a pirate version of MSWindows for example because they can't afford to buy a retail version doesn't take money out of Microsoft's pocket. They could be running Linux instead, and it still wouldn't be an actual loss for Microsoft. It would just be one less sale against profits.
Instead I see this as:
a) A big PR move for MS (MS gives $billion to the poor)
b) Tax write off
c) An attempt to displace non-MS OS's in regions where MS cannot otherwise compete.
All of the above benefits MS at a very cheap cost to them.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I remember reading about Nestle bringing baby formula to 3rd world countries. "Use this instead of your own breast milk. The succesful and healthy parents in the United States do, so it must be better."
The problems started to show up immediately. First, there was a limited supply, so the parents would try to stretch the formula. Second, there isn't usually a source of purified water in the middle of poverty stricken 3rd world, so they would use water that often had bacteria. 3rd, after using the introductory supply up, they were basically forced to keep using it going forward because the mothers had lost the ability to generate milk.
Nestle made a great profit because there was a high demand, funded through help funds, and also because they generated a captive audience.
I wonder if there will be equivalents here where Microsoft essentially 'addicts' them to using their software while leaving any content expiration intact so they'll be obligated to stick to acquiring new MS things going forward.
Are you channeling Scott Adams?? You should be a cartoonist... -Scott
A friend of my put it best ..
"In other news, crack dealers give first hit of crack for free to kids"
[alk]
Factor in the strong network effects regarding operating system dominance, and an early lead can result in long-term domination.
It just went from a 2 to a 1 soon it will be a -1 troll. I'm sorry buddy......
Donating software to the rest of the third (or second) world is akin to giving amnesty to piracy. The vast majority of software is pirated in these regions due to the dollars MS wants. In China, they sell PCs with Linux or no OS instead of MS OSs because MS wants 70 bucks per computer. The user just buys a 1 buck CD with his computer that has a pirated copy of windows.
Plus, has anyone heard whether or not they'll be donating $1 billion in "Magic Schoolbus" educational software like they tried to do with their anti-trust settlement a few years back.
Windows is not a necessity for life; they charge the price the market is willing to bear, and that's that. Being convicted of being a monopoly in and of itself is neither illegal nor unethical. Taking advantage of that monopoly is where all you geeks get your panties up in a bunch.
Christ. Next thing you know I will be the one semantically debating "theft" vs "copyright infringement". Please kill me.
Read the statements again. 3 month income is down, year over year.
Microsoft is trying to spin this as improved results, but they are just playing a shell game. Note that the increase revenue is more than balanced by increased expenses. Translation: Microsoft is buying sales and hiding the costs. Translation of the translation: Microsoft is being forced to offer heavy incentives to move their tired old products. Translation of the translation of the translation: a million Penguin bites really do hurt.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
My consulting business has dealt with third world firms, and their lack of legitimate software has caused some problems in the past. Microsoft's giving away of their software to encourage more business is only a good thing for me, my business, and my employees here. Foreign workers have actually caused our profits to rise, and since all my employees get a good chunk of the profits, I'm able to hire more people here and pay them more.
In my retail business, we give away free rentals of our sports equipment to young kids with parental supervision. 10-20% of those kids either buy the rental equipment outright, or come back for something better to buy. It is a good business initiative to give the item away.
Cigarette companies have sent me free cigarettes to try a new product. Free samples of pain killers have helped my family switch to new brands. I've tried numerous foods in the supermarket that were given away free. I switched health clubs after doing a 2 week free trial. My shampoo I use is even one I picked after trying a profit-loss trial size.
Why is this wrong? Microsoft products help almost 95% of my customers make money by not having to train users on a system they are unfamiliar with. I'm glad to see Microsoft take the initiative and a big risk in giving away the free software. I hope they continue to do so and I know I will reap the benefits in finding more firms to deal with overseas.
billions, but wholesale ...$0 /me/ a troll, but I'd like to applaud the open source community.
Call
I'll tell you exactly what this article translates to:
"Microsoft's profits are way up, but we'll sping it as a negative by vaguely quoting some mysterious analysts who say something about sustaining contracts, and we'll be sure to mention vague 'security concerns.' Also, Microsoft did something amazing and humanitarian by donating $1 billion worth of software, but because I'm an editor on a corporate-owned entity that pretends to not have a biased agenda (*cough* OSDN *cough), I'll editorialize that it's only worth $1 million, call it 'hooking the third world' even though Linux is also given away freely all over the world, and then act like a victim when people don't like me as an editor after I bitchslap their threads pointing out such."
The interesting thing is the difficulty they have in the long-term business contracts and enterprise deployment. Because there, they actually have to compete. The desktop market they already have completely controlled, outside of Mac users.
I can easily see a day not too long in the future when MS starts to scale back their aggressiveness in the enterprise market and focuses on desktops. I think they'll always *keep* that enterprise line of business, but I'll bet they slow down the cash flow to it.
Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
I wonder what Bill Parish has to say about that...
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
get it right after all the first two worlds has been throught with MS products. Then again, maybe McBride is in the 3rd world as we speak preaching the evils of the GPL. Here's to the the 4th world!
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Microsoft is donating a pile of software ... attempting to hook the Third World on Microsoft software.
Umm, would you instead expect them to donate Linux?
oh wait... we already are... hrmm.. well, maybe someone can mail some debian cds?
Presumably the people getting this free software are exactly the people who might be looking at free software as a cheap alternative to MS.
Giving them free stuff therefore loses MS very little in sales, but ensures they are all gaining experience and expertise in MS not Linux etc. So when they do have the money to spend on software, they will do so with Microsoft.
Yeah, cause changing the biology of mother and baby is quite analogous to giving someone the chance to start->programs->games->minesweeper. Of course, I'd blame the local government if everyone has computers to run windows XP but they don't have safe water, as you assert. I suppose you believe that's Bill Gates' personal fault too. Won't someone think of the children!!!???!!!11
Let me test my memory... and yours: Do you remember when M$ handed over to China the source code of Windows?
"Wholesale" isn't manufacturer cost-per-unit, it's the price at which the product is sold to retailers.
If the top-level post said "maybe $1 million cost to MS", I'd agree. That's probably what they meant. That doesn't make it less stupid to use "wholesale" that way.
Maybe an accountant can answer this question:
How much does Microsoft get to declare as a tax deduction when it donates software?
For example, say Microsoft donates a CD, and that CD cost $1 to manufacture, but it contains software that normally retails for $100.
What does Microsoft get to deduct for their charitable donation? Is it $1? $50? $100?
If it is anything more that $1, then Microsoft is making a profit. In effect, money would be being transferred from other taxpayers to Microsoft.
fair enough...
but what about having better software for their nuclear plants for the safety of us all? what about medical research? or just better storage of medical information for the benefit of the billion of them? what about using free software for education? you only see evil in the application of free software by "rogue" governements...
also, all your examples could be used for the western world too. i mean email monitoring etc, god knows what technologies the secret stuff the cia uses is built on
just my 0.02
a "freebie", that is.
Like other posters have pointed out, these third world countries will not be able to affort the hight prices of upgrades. Sure they would take the freebies - it would be smart, but I doubt Microsoft is going to gain the long position.
The dynamic in Microsoft's finances right now is really illustrating a couple of things: (1) market pressures by solutions offered by other (open source) alternatives, and (2) the beginnings of the effects of their predatory reputation and business practices in light of #1.
Software is in may regards (and this is a controversial statement) becoming a commodity. When that happens pricing pressures take hold. Microsoft is entering this phase of its company's life. It can no longer hold onto and expand the market by monopolistic tactics. The open source movement, general awarness and a growing sense of displeasure in the business community with Microsoft's tactics and pricing, and of course the anti-trust trial and verdict (however inadequate we feel the "punishment".
The bottom line is that Microsoft's business success was base partly on its ability to meet customer needs (minus security), but was propped up by its predatory behavior.
I see this trend continuing until Micrsoft's pricing comes in line with upcoming competition (GO LINUX DESKTOP!!!). We are in the middle of a paradigm shift, ladies and gentlemen.
Is the juice worth the sqeeze?
...I think it's safe to say _ALL_ of Microsoft's revenue is "unearned".
What was their one origional product called? Bob, wasn't it??
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
but you have to remember that they are doing it for business reasons. just like pharmacutical companies dump useless drugs in poverty/famine stricken countries and regions (well ok, maybe not that cynical). there's probably some tax write-off they can make, plus they get to permeate the market so that other OSs don't get a look in. i also think BG wants to make himself look a great guy, need proof? check out the BMG foundation website.
Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
I have to admit I was confused for a while too, but any post that contains the phrase "the unbiased reporting that CNN provides" cannot possibly be serious.
You took a thread about Microsoft and turned it around so I'm now picturing big, beautiful milk-surged titties. AWESOME.
Michael didn't say "from a manufacturing perspective." What he said was pure flamebait: "$1 billion retail, probably about $1 million wholesale." Please.
if any of you folks is thinking of adding to BGs wealth, consider donating to this guy, he needs it (or at least he says he does). or you could always buy a mac, they're pretty :D
Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce
I can't see that it really matters if Microsoft tries to "hook" the Third World on their products. The Third World can't _afford_ Microsoft prices (sort of what makes them Third World) and so if they are using Microsoft products it will be at no gain to the company's bottom line.
You seem to have completely missed the finer points of monopoly versus normal competition. The very last thing you want as a monopoly is a competitive alternative. Read up on some basic economics about profits in monopoly versus duopoly and how much money it's rational to sink into barriers to entry.
Microsoft would want nothing but for the third world to use their products, both officially (like this giveaway) and unofficially through piracy, because it means they're not using anything else. While they may cry their hearts out over the massive piracy, the truth is that if they actually forced them to pay, they'd lose their biggest barrier to entry.
You're right, the third world doesn't gain their bottom line. But if they let an alternative develop and grow popular because their prices are too high, it could seriously hurt their bottom line where it matters - in the rich countries. That's what this is all about, what they are trying to prevent.
That's also why threats of moving to Linux is so effective - the more people are on Linux, the more the rest can threaten to move to Linux. So it's probably cheaper to buy them off than to increase the Linux userbase and make the switchover threat worse. They sacrifice a little profit to keep their monopoly, because that is what matters in the greater picture.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Well, I haven't actually started, but I would imagine that starting off with open solutions would be much more benifical to the country. If we can get he money for cpmputers, I think I'll have to put linux on them. Any recomendations for linux distros that run well on older hardware? And I do mean older( 386- pentium) hardware. I would like to run some sort of a gui on them.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Michael, with your comments "the $1B is really $1M" yet again you prove that shoddy journalism is alive and well on Slashdot. Call me up when you donate as much as $1000 of software to a charity. Or better yet - if you can work out a deal whereas I can get $1B-worth of Microsoft software for $1M I will find the million to buy it. Mod me, biatch.
In the end, I think Linux and Open Source will win out in the "Third World", they have a much better understanding of the dynamics because they have not yet been brainwashed by the "corporate greed = = democracy" mantra
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
costs to manufacture this stuff. The IRS has already ruled you can't deduct the retail. Normally, this donation would only be worth about 10% of retail, considering MS says it has about a 90% margin.
However, this is being given to the UN, and different rules may apply. Congress may let them deduct retail.
Moderators: This is an impersonating troll. Notice "Ray_r_nond"
Microsoft is obviously doing this just to hook the third world. Its not like they, nor Bill Gates have ever made any charitable donations before, right?
Maybe one day slashdot will get rid of Michael and will slowly become a respectable news source again.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
CNN UNbiased?!??! what are you smoking..... cnn is the mouth piece of the DNC. D is for democrate. they did not call it the "clinton" news network for nothing.
/. and AC for china.
but your point is understood. cencorship from that wich is anti-state.
so no
Good point, and absolutely true.
Have you been reading Darl McBride's screeds?
The guy stole the post here. I warned you mods, this imposter has started his descent into trolling and crapflooding.
I think crack gives you a better buzz.
Thank you, now I don't have to say it!
and mod down the typical /. dumbassery that started it
freee klooo: just because you can code does not mean you now know everything
This Reuters story in the Toronto Star puts a different spin on the numbers. I assume that they're both using the same numbers?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
MOD PARENT DOWN!! IMPERSONATION!
Look closely at his name! RAY_R_NOND? looks like raymond but spelled rayrnond. See it?
See the FAQ
I have re-posted this AC comment because it needs to be seen, and someone has modded it down unfairly.
Just, like, like, like, STOP IT already!
My cat craps better software after a happy day of eating bugs!
Damn it, just STOP!
For the love of Yog-Soggoth and all that is transhuman and the Lords Of Kobol, STOP, I tell you, STOP!
Argh! Ack! Thppbbt! (gurgle)
--- Ban humanity.
The Windows domination however does affect me personally (I have to "buy" sofware I don't need, I have to deal with peripheral makers not including Linux drivers on their CDs and of course more games for Linux would also be nice.) and if China is helping ending it, I'm all for it.
look carefull at the user name, its rayNond, not rayMond. Its a troll pretending to be esr.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
distribute linux around third world countrys??
1)Its free anyways (from ftp)
2)Its more stable
3)It has better language support.
4)More features (working, wanted ones)
Only drawback I can see is that the same arguments could be made against linux, ie. We are trying to monopolise the third world, so we can get even with a company that has done wrong in the past (and still is.[anti-trust case's])
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
MS seems to be very definitely losing market share at least here in India. Most computer manufacturers including Dell and Acer are selling PCs and Laptops with Linux and Openoffice pre-installed. One of the indian manufacturers... HCL is advertising a modestly configured PC (1.7GHz, 128MB RAM, 40GB hdd, 15" CRT) for the equivalent of $250 with Linux and Openoffice installed.
Many people may replace it with Windows, but at least you're free from the Microsoft Tax if you choose to use Linux. And I'm sure many people will at least try it and be shocked by the staggering loss in performance when they install, say, WinXP on these machines.
Free software gives Microsoft a lot of exposure. Some of the worlds largest markets (read: most populous nations) are third world. Since people will have the product, they'll learn it, and likely develop the same dependance as is seen in North America today. (Ever try to use Lotus Suite after 6 years on MS Office?)
Eventually, the economy in these nations picks up, and people start paying massive amounts of money for software upgrades and support agreements.
Good long term potential earnings.
Our buddy Darl says that Linux can be downloaded for free and used in North Korea, Afghanistan, and other terrorist filled countries.
But Bill Gates goes into these countries and gives his software away for free also. To sweeten the pot, he takes a tax deduction for donating product to 3rd world countries. The tax deduction is inevitably MORE than the cost of distributing the software, thus bringing Microsoft profit.
How does this make Microsoft, as a corporation, a more responsible member of the community than us 'Penguinistas'?
qoute "retail value, $1 billion; wholesale value, maybe $1 million or so" Actually its not worth anywhere near a million. How much does it really cost to run off a couple of thousand copies of the latest Billware? Maybe a few hundred dollars?
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
Well that shatters my worldview. After reading Slashdot I was under the impression that everyone was migrating to Open Source products and Linux. Now comes the news that "M$" (whom everyone hates because their products suck so much, but are forced to use them for some reason) reports $10.5 BILLION DOLLARS in revenue in THREE MONTHS and has a profit of $1.5 BILLION dollars during that same period.
Redhat has a profit of $2.6 MILLION on revenues of $30 MILLION in the same time frame.
Microsoft is dying. Lets short their stock!
HEY! You stole my post!! LOL
/. . The more people that are aware of this imposter the better.
Good for you &
I've marked him as foe and am watching his posts board ready to pounce as soon as he hits 'Submit Comment.'
I'll devote the next few weeks to ensuring we erradicate this scum.
I've got plenty of hardware, from old pentiums to dual p2 300's with SCSI drives, and I've got more workstations and servers than I need... I'm sure I'm not alone.. maybe the local library could use some, but I've always been partial to latin america..
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Hear hear! Isn't anyone sick of the spin that OSDN puts on everything that doesn't coincide with their view of how the software world should be?
I say be quiet Timothy, OSDN may be dead in a year.
I'm heading for Africa this Fall. One thing I'll end up doing is computer work.
I have a friend who is setting up some computer labs for elementary schools. I pleaded with him to go with Linux -- easier to lock down and maintain (by a qualified individual), but mainly because of the hook effect. Even if you got windows free, it will then be all that those students know, and will result in money flowing from countries that can't afford it into the coffers of Redmond.
You don't have to be a militant-anti-globalist-protestor to understand that it isn't a desirable situation.
It is in situations like this that the freedom of open-source makes the most sense.
BTW, tobacco companies are doing the same thing. Hook the 3rd world and send the profits to the US.
Namibia said "Screw you!" and kept on using Linux.
Microsoft is obviously doing this just to hook the third world. Its not like they, nor Bill Gates have ever made any charitable donations before, right?
Donating cold, hard cash is charity.
Donating product is promotion, pure and simple.
Spinning it as "charity" is disningenuous, dishonest, and quite frankly an insult to our intelligence (not to mention an insult to everyone who does make real, legitimate financial donations anywhere).
Maybe one day slashdot will get rid of Michael and will slowly become a respectable news source again.
So, in other words, Michael isn't up to Microsoft Shill standards?
Microsoft is trying to "hook" the third world. As anyone with any experience with computers (who is not a Microsoft shill) will attest: once you are running on one platform, switching to another is difficult even if the playing field is level. Add to that Microsoft's long, well documented history of customer-lock-in strategies and techniques ranging from deliberate sabatoge of competitor's products through mucking with DLLs (Netscape, DR DOS, etc.) to outright strong-arm tactics ("use Netscape instead of IE and will treble the price of your licenses!"), couple all of that with Microsoft's typical monopolistic pricing, and the only rational conclusion anyone not shilling for Microsoft could reasonably reach is that they are, in fact, trying to promote their product in the third world and thereby lock in new customers, making it difficult for them to consider competing alternatives (e.g. FreeBSD, Apple, Linux).
In the Common Tongue we call that "hooking" the customer.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Should have said,
I'll let others discuss what the real value is in this case... (grin)
Yeah, everyone knows it's purely for PR and business reasons. This is a common loop hole many large business use to sneak around things. Microsoft would be stupid to not use these common tactics. Is it right? we'll things never where black and white or right and wrong. that's life.
man.. defending MS.. next thing you know I'll be going to church..
I'd say going to church would be a REALLY good idea after defending MS. After all, when you dance with the devil like that you risk ummmm...getting burned...so to speak.
Was only at like 800k last year.. Every year they keep losing more and more on their ill fated console. Not that it means much, they have a tank of cash, but you'd think at this point they'd simply pull the plug and try somewhere else.
-----------------------
You are what you think.
Nestle is and isn't a good analogy, but regardless the sentiment is straight on.
The real problem with the Nestle campaign wasn't just that they were giving out free formula, but that they also blatently lied... teaching new mothers that the formula was better for their children then breastmilk, when exactly the opposite was true.
With regard to MS... they've been giving out free software in developing countries for some time and it's anything but altruistic. They are trying to get countries "hooked" in much the same manner that Nestle did. In Namibia for instance, MS is donating thousands of free computers to schools in an attempt to drown SchoolsNet, a Linux based initiative to link up Namibian schools.
But then isn't this the same thing that Apple tried in U.S. schools in the 80s?
That's unpossible.
PC sales are the slowest they've been since the apple II came out, XP (over two years old) is the first windows upgrade that most of the world can afford to not upgrade to (windows 2000 is just fine,) and Media Center is a total non-starter.
I'm not saying they should be hurting, but best showing ever? Where are they getting all that money?
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
...as though Microsoft is holding them at gunpoint to use it by giving it away.
That's not happening now...the gun-pointing starts when Longhorn or the next MS Office comes out and MS goes around to the recipients of their "charity" and asks that they upgrade. If they don't seem interested in upgrades they may face audits in the future.
That's what MS did to schools in their own back yard--they sold software at deep educational discounts and in some cases donated it. Then years later they sent out audit requests. If there was so much as one license violation (and in schools that is highly likely) they'd have to pay for the deficiency in licensing PLUS the cost of the audit. The only way to avoid the risk would be to pay school staff to perform an internal audit--also too expensive for broke school districts.
The article states MS is also donating cash, and BillG himself stated ther is "no lock-in" and the cash can be used to invest in Linux solutions if they so wished. However, given how MS operates the intention here is to make the MS path the path of least resistance. For example: "Here are 20 licenses for XP Pro and $25000 for your school. Have fun! What? You use Linux and wish to take more cash in lieu of XP Pro? Sorry, can't do that--if you want anything at all you have to take it all. Besides, with Win XP you can take ful advantage of the regional Exchange server we donated to your government, and the ActiveX in the school intranet server won't work with Linux."
Developing nations are full of efficient, resourceful people (too bad they aren't goverened by those people, but whatever). They are not accustomed to wasting anything. If they get software with the cash (which would presumably be used for hardware or other infrastructure), tossing it aside would be wasteful so they would use it. MS is hoping to take advantage of that fact to penetrate new markets.
Executed in a certain fashion, corporate philanthropy can look generous on the surface, but be used to cook the books or avoid taxes, as well as gain a market advantage. Good thing starving Africans are getting the free software, because a Gigabuck of stuff given away in Europe or Japan would be called DUMPING....
Well that's evil. Microsoft seems to win either way on that one.
I'm a 2000 man.
Geeks unequivocally will tell you XP software is entirely software because they use [insert Linux distro here] and it has so many [insert tons of benefits here]. But this doesn't reclude the fact that: 1. Linux is virtually not marketed, Tom Dick and Harry havent' even heard of thing 2. Not ready for the desktop. It's NOT simply enough regardless of what Mandrake people will tell you. Simple for geeks, but not to grandma, and that's what matters. This is why computer systems that are used almost solely by geeks (databases and servers) are run by Oracle and Linux, NOT Microsoft.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
...is that when MS goes down, the stock prices of almost all tech companies, even chip manufacturers, drop.
The expense wasn't for stock options per se, it was a one time stock option buyback the company offered employees for stock options that were underwater. Analysts typically ignore these one time expenses as they are not recurring and do not affect either companies revenue and income are increasing or not.
Quite simply an economic monopoly is the only provider of a good or service. If this SOLE criterion is not met the argument is over. Period.
Monopoly has nothing to do with market dominance, 'mean' tactics, 'anti-competetive strategies' or whatever the rhetoric of the day is.
This may seem an argument of semantics but TRUE economic power comes from having no competitors. Such is simply not the case with Microsoft, making all monopoly claims null and void. Yes, market dominance gives you a good deal of power, but it is nothing compared to the total exclusion of all competitors.
And if you're wondering the legal definition is incorrect, as any good economist will tell you.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
Anyone remember the Opium Wars that Britain had with China a while back? Hmmm.. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see much of a difference here.
Speak for yourself.
Microsoft's success is based on 2 things:
1. Good marketing. Linux has always been horendous at this. A good product is useless if no one knows about it
2. Meeting the needs of the customer. Linux-zealots can argue till they're blue in the face about this but Tom Dick and Harry find Excel and Word to meet all the requirements they need. Until Linux PRESENTS them with a product that has a SIGNIFICANT competetive advantage they will happily continue using XP.
Mandrake is for geeks, not laymen. Fix this and you'll have a case.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
SgtChaireBourne seems more realistic about this subject.
Click on the comment #8064096 link. Subject: Smoke - 2Q drop in profits despite tax write-off (Score:1)
by SgtChaireBourne (457691) on 12:17 AM -- Friday January 23 2004 (#8064096)
attempting to "hook" the Third World on Microsoft software.
become "hooked" to Microsoft software
Microsoft tries to "hook" the Third World on their products
I don't get this. Are Microsoft's products a drug?
"Shhhh, I'm smoking Windows."
"More of that MSIE over here please" <SNORT!>
"Dammit. Why can't I roll this media player?"
I've also noticed that when saying "hook and "Microsoft" it all just flows out...
Game Maker Community
This software is "Free" as in Puppy.
Strive to make your client happy, not necessarly give them what they ask for
"Also in the news: Microsoft is donating a pile of software to the United Nations -- retail value, $1 billion . . ."
This really brings to mind a drug dealer trying to get someone hooked on smak.
"Come on kid, the first one is on me..."
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
"Microsoft is donating software to the third world." == "Here, your first hit of crack is free." Then you'll *buy* another, and another, and another...
Nobody uses Linux there anyway.
In India you can pay $2 for a copy of Windows XP and another $2 for Office 2003. Those won't be legal of course. But the question is, if Indians have the money to buy their PCs, why don't they have money to buy legal software?
"Microsoft can't "remotely deactivate" any version of Windows XP..."
Oh, really? Au contraire, I would be very wary what I would believe about Micro$haft if I were you, amigo.
Goddamnit you are such a USELESS COCKSUCKER Sims, how about you do us ALL a favor and SHOVE your 2 INCH COCK into a JET ENGINE TURBINE and get SUCKED IN and just FUCKING DIE!
I suspect that this is a spoiler for Open Source like OpenOffice, Apache and the likes of FreeBSD or GNU/Linux.
If its basic computer skills then you don't need any Microsoft software but any old PC like the junk we in the 3rd world typically toss out (you know all those P-300 and lower PCs.
I want to know is
a) what the hell they would be powering these PCs with ! and
b) how will Microsoft actually help the very poor rates of literacy in the females in Afganistan. Since the US got rid of the Taliban very little has been done to help female literacy. Female literacy is an essential part of the general children literacy rates as the females of the family teach children from an early age at home basic skills prior to formal schooling.
I still think that the 3rd world need the basics to survive not some 3rd rate software that has an inflated sticker price and can easily be replaced by alternatives at a zero price point. Anyone who thinks that GNOME/KDE is not desktop ready is talking sh*t. As for server technology then any typical Linux magazine cover CD has Apache, PHP, Perl, Linux, Postgresq/MySQL, Python.... You can get more software from some old Linux magazine at a newspaper stand than you'll ever get from Microsoft on their gift programs.
we tend not to want to set their computer science programs back 20 years...
Other arguments against the use of Linux in the 3rd world are its difficulty of use and its incompatibility with much of the software that serves as the cogs of the global economy. There are good arguments for Linux, of course, but, like in the US, one would think that if Linux were so great, more people would want to use it than the 1% or whatever who do.
They are convicted abusers of their legally recognized monopolic position.
What else do you need to get over it?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Any sensible person understands what part of the allegoric comparison applies and which one does not.
I wish less people will try to insult our intelligence in this patronizing way.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
OSS is about freedom.
People should not be forced to "chose" between unfair software lock up and freedom.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And by know his biases are pretty clear.
So what exactly is your point?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
>Donating product is promotion, pure and simple.
I think it's neither that pure, nor that simple. If you make something useful, then it's not necessarily either arrogance or greed that makes you hand it out. As an extreme example, I would use medications. No-one would say that drugs are donated with future profit in mind.
I'm not saying that Microsoft software is on the same tier as medications, but them giving away something they make does not necessarily mean they're purely trying to promote themselves.
no no no. it's because windows comes preinstalled on 90% computers. and why it is this way i hope you know.
:-)
and mandrake is for the people
but I suspect the Nazi editor crew plus their drooling fanbase will keep you at 3 tops. But don't let that stop you: Keep pointing out the lameness and we'll try to keep your scores high. Who knows, maybe I'll even subject myself to those anti-slash.org faggots in order to gain mod points.
Nobody uses Linux there anyway.
Oh gee really? And who told you that? I ought to tell all my friends, and the hundreds of members of the LUG that they're all nobody.
if Indians have the money to buy their PCs, why don't they have money to buy legal software?
If Americans have money to buy PCs, MP3 players etc. why don't they have money to buy CDs? Why do they download illegal MP3s?
Is that tax deductable?
Wdinows being installed on 90% of cpus is a convenient excuse but an excuse nonetheless. This is Microsoft's competetive advantage: Not having to worry about buying an O/S, it's already included.
Until Linux PRESENTS consumers with a product that has a SIGNIFICANT competetive advantage they will happily continue using XP.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
Dear M$, The so called 'Third World' citizens are not illiterates and can definitely think for themselves. So if M$ donates software it is fine by us but we dont intend buying/paying for sub-standard products..('Donations' under the guise of AIDS programs will remain just that !! :-))
If M$ takes the trouble to kindly visit *any* University in India they would realise that FSF is here to stay.
Afterall Indian s/w programmers are responsible for a *minor* contribution to the IT world !!
sincerely,
A Third-World citizen.
Like it or not, whether you suspect/know that they have an ulterior motive or not, the fact is that they are donating money and software for a good cause. It is also reported that they are "permitting" these places to implement OS software as well, and though I figure they will have to jump through hoops, here is the bottom line:
My next computer will be a Mac, guaranteed; I hate MS as much as anyone else. But the fact of the matter is they are doing a good thing with this initiative and they should be recognized for this.
If Steve Jobs owned 95% of the market and was worth billions, I expect that he would be just as generous.
I think it's neither that pure, nor that simple. If you make something useful, then it's not necessarily either arrogance or greed that makes you hand it out. As an extreme example, I would use medications. No-one would say that drugs are donated with future profit in mind.
Drugs are usually quite cheap to manufacture, the real costs are in R&D. So donating drugs doesn't cost you much and doesn't mean you lose potential profit (you don't donate to solvent customers). It is exactly on the same tier as medication.
And could you please give even one example of a company donating its own products where promotion didn't even enter the equation? Giving away obsolete product that would otherwise be thrown away doesn't qualify. Just one example, please.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
A few thousand people out of a billion don't make any difference and may just as well be dismissed.
And I don't know about MP3s. I buy CDs. Luckily I don't spend much money on them, because every year all this music industry produces only 3-4 CDs I'm really interested in. It's not worth getting into trouble for $50 a year. I spend twice as much every month on utilities here.
A few thousand people out of a billion don't make any difference and may just as well be dismissed.
Linux users are a minority EVERYWHERE. I have no reason to believe there are more or less users here than anywhere else. (BTW, I grew up in Bombay, but go to Grad school at Stony Brook, so I know a bit about both countries)
I buy CDs. Luckily I don't spend much money on them,
I wasn't talking about YOU. I was talking about an average person who has gigabytes upon gigabytes of MP3s, and maybe 10 CDs if that.
Oh, bullshit. It operates nearly in a vacuum. Microsoft's stock price only affects Microsoft's stock price. Nokia, for example, has been steadily rising. Pretty much the same with IBM and so on...
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.