the suggestion that stealing 100,000 pennies over the course of a couple years is somehow bragging rights compared to the person who robs a couple banks and gets far more...is silly. botnets have already been proven to have little commercial value, and are barely anything more than "I hacked X number of people" trophies for the creators. Attempts by the botnet creators to actually use them in useful ways have always ended in failure...sure, DDoS a single site. Wow, that's useful...except, that only works with sites that are old-school, that aren't serving data from redundant CDNs from globally distributed server farms. The "cloud" has trumped botnets in any meaningful way, and can be had with far, far less effort.
The value is not on windows desktops. They're barely worth the hassle. The only reason they're targets isn't because they're so prolific, but because they're so easy.
the point is that the value isn't by building a bigger botnet, it's by getting prime targets. If it takes you 10,000 times more effort to get on the large banking system than it does to break on to a windows7 box someone uses at home...so what, it's likely going to be that much more valuable. Even with massive, massive numbers of compromised systems, botnets aren't a money-making venture. Getting that random keylogger to get access to someone's bank account is FAR, FAR more difficult than shooting a spam email to 100,000 people just asking them for the info - you'll get it from a few of them. No need to actually break on to a box for that sort of thing, you just break the person. The OS is thus irrelevant.
Linux isn't less of a target, it's *more* of one. There is less success hacking it not because people don't want to hack it, but instead...wait for it...because it's more secure. I could go over the reasons why in detail, but if you haven't figured it out for yourself after all these years, then...hey, fanboi away.
Yeah, you're right. No one wants to, that's why I see scans and hack attempts in the thousands per second against the machines I have exposed to the internet.
Tired response is tired. Get a new one - it never really convinced anyone even 15 years ago, and it still doesn't now.
The money is on UNIX systems. That's where the large banks are running their transactions, where stock is being traded, where the military is running it's services, where engineering designs are stored, etc. omgponies you hacked grandpa's 10 year old computer, and added it to your botnet...just what did that get you, really? For just a few $k a month I could build an ec2 cluster that would destroy any botnet in sheer computing power...mostly because I wouldn't have to deal with crazy queing mechanisms, or nicing the tasks down enough to not be noticed by the user.
The reality is, more than anything this tired "people hack windows boxes because they can win more" response pretends to suggest, that UNIX is phenominally more secure on a basic, fundamental, architectural level than Windows. Out of the box, I can trust an app on a RHEL os. Out of the box, I can't even plug a windows machine in to a network without being behind a firewall. I've literally seen, with my own eyes, windows machines get compromised in less than 20 minutes of being online. Sure sure, sample sizes and all that...except, I've also managed hundreds of unix machines at a time without any concerns on them.
I haven't owned a car for many years now. I use a backpack for shopping; works just fine. When I need to move something large, I go all communist and rent a farking car; why own for all 365days a year when I only need one for approx 2 of them? I hear that "what if I want to move something big" argument from people with trucks quite often...who, despite the argument, have spotless truck beds that tell a tale of never having been used to move something big. Bike+car rentals...it's not a complicated concept.
except that the interconnect between the municipalities will be faster. And the consumers have jobs at companies that get high-speed network between offices, and they send their kids to schools that get high-speed interconnect between campuses. And then there's just the raising the bar part.
But other than those things yeah, I suspect no one would notice at all.
gota be it. The global warming refracted too many of the sun's rays back, and stopped the core of the sun. Any day now, it will be a red giant, and we'll just be swallowed up by it (when it expands this far, natch).
circuits do not need to have intentional communication interfaces to be hard-hacked via induction. That, and newer pacemakers do sometimes have communication interfaces.
Next up for the illustrious University of Reading: Butcher knives can chop your dick off, even if you're thinking about Marshmallow Peeps while swinging the blade!
DAMNIT! I just started getting funding for this exact experiment! No point in it now, since I won't be the first. Back to the drawing board.
There is a perfect analogy in nature to this, it is called an asymptomatic carrier. Typhoid Mary is the classic case of this. The carrier is infected with a disease but are not themselves affected by it but they can pass it on to others.
nice try at defending the idiot, but...no. As you said, in those cases the carrier is infected. In this case, the carrier is only infected with severe stupidity; as others have mentioned, this is no different than sticking a usb stick that has a virus on it up your ass. The human isn't infected with a computer virus - call it a protocol mismatch, if it makes you happy.
oooohh, so if I take off from work (thus having to stay later than normal) I get the privilege of standing in a long line to put my name on a blank ballot so it can be counted along with all the ballots cast by the dead. This will show the people controlling the parties that I want something different, they will see the error of their ways, and tada! Peace and happiness will happen.
No it all makes sense. And here I thought rejecting the single-party system and stirring discontent was the way to reach my goals...
yeah, the worst-case scenario could happen, and he could be reduced to just a couple hundred mill. Wouldn't that be a shame:/ I can't imagine trying to live off that much as a 26yo; ramen every day, yuck!
Do you *really* think that he hasn't diversified at least a little by now?
that the normal PC may or may not start becoming less important, has little to do with whether or not he suggested the ipad would be the only thing you'd ever need. What you're saying is tantamount to the locomotive industry laughing at the automotive industry 100 years ago, saying "ha ha! I'd like to see you carry large loads across country" when suggesting that the dominance of trains in long-distance transportation was ending. Are there still trains? Sure, but people are far more apt to drive, ride a bus, or fly now than they are to ride a train. And big rigs, planes, and a revamped boating industry move large objects around far more than trains do now.
He's free to say the PC is fading, without suggesting that it will be entirely replaced by an iPad.
The welfare laws of the 60s was the first time in our history that either the general population, or the government, cared about calling someone an "illegal alien." At that point, the gov had to limit the number of people eligible for welfare, so they forced you to hate immigrants. For me, that didn't work.
Up until that time the US was the "melting pot," a culture defined by it's aims toward higher ideals, and which embraced immigrants from any culture. Our strength was in the betterment of everyone. We've squandered vast wealth the last few decades, destroying the world's economical stability, by taking our wealth, flipping it in to debt, all for the benefit of mega-corps. Along the way, we stopped being an industrial and agricultural superpower because...we axed our source of low-wage workers.
Just keep in mind that whenever you get angry about immigrants, it's because a Democrat from the 60s wanted you to (they wouldn't have gotten welfare passed otherwise).
Squatters rights, eh? Damn right it's not their home.
Who said anything about "squatters rights?" Most illegal aliens live in apartments for which they pay rent.
A person's ethics can be effectively determined by whether they abide by the law, as it justifiably and accurately applies to them.
... Every single one of the Founding Fathers broke the law, and committed High Treason. If a law is unjust, that doesn't mean you have an obligation to submit to the law regardless; especially when you had no say in the law. And hint - almost no "citizen" has a say in the law these days either, we're deeply run by corporations.
I guarantee that if every illegal worker disappeared tomorrow, after the major upheaval and turmoil subsided the labour market would bring itself to a wage that American workers were willing to work for and employers were willing to pay.
And I guarantee that it wouldn't. The wealth of this nation has been consistently dependent upon indentured or otherwise black-market (pun not entirely intended), labor. There has not been a time in the history of the US where our agricultural and industrial power wasn't completely dependent upon slavery and immigrants. Only, back then we didn't call them "illegals." It was only once we got into the 60s and were no longer able to treat people as second-class citizens legally and openly, that we started losing our industrial and agricultural power. At one point, we were called the "breadbasket of the world," producing upwards of 80% of the grains consumed on the planet. No, indeed, we would not maintain our status if we got rid of ultra-low-wage workers.
Why does a mass flaunting of this so-called liberty by boldly transgressing the laws of the land that you fought to help protect not bother you?
Because I didn't join to protect land and/or the rights of white people; I joined to protect the concept of liberty and freedom. I joined because I believe all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I am disillusioned from the idea that people stop being people, with those inalienable rights, based solely on whether they were born in the US, Iraq, Sudan, or even Mexico. And as a person that visits Mexico frequently, and has seen people being burned alive on the side of the road or hung from bridges, I am intimately familiar with that which a Mexican might want to escape, and why they'd want to come here. Do they fit in perfectly? No. Is it a hard road? Yes. But either we believe in essential liberties and protect them, or we give up believing in essential liberties; it's that simple.
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the suggestion that stealing 100,000 pennies over the course of a couple years is somehow bragging rights compared to the person who robs a couple banks and gets far more...is silly. botnets have already been proven to have little commercial value, and are barely anything more than "I hacked X number of people" trophies for the creators. Attempts by the botnet creators to actually use them in useful ways have always ended in failure...sure, DDoS a single site. Wow, that's useful...except, that only works with sites that are old-school, that aren't serving data from redundant CDNs from globally distributed server farms. The "cloud" has trumped botnets in any meaningful way, and can be had with far, far less effort.
The value is not on windows desktops. They're barely worth the hassle. The only reason they're targets isn't because they're so prolific, but because they're so easy.
the point is that the value isn't by building a bigger botnet, it's by getting prime targets. If it takes you 10,000 times more effort to get on the large banking system than it does to break on to a windows7 box someone uses at home...so what, it's likely going to be that much more valuable. Even with massive, massive numbers of compromised systems, botnets aren't a money-making venture. Getting that random keylogger to get access to someone's bank account is FAR, FAR more difficult than shooting a spam email to 100,000 people just asking them for the info - you'll get it from a few of them. No need to actually break on to a box for that sort of thing, you just break the person. The OS is thus irrelevant.
Linux isn't less of a target, it's *more* of one. There is less success hacking it not because people don't want to hack it, but instead...wait for it...because it's more secure. I could go over the reasons why in detail, but if you haven't figured it out for yourself after all these years, then...hey, fanboi away.
if anyone cared to
Yeah, you're right. No one wants to, that's why I see scans and hack attempts in the thousands per second against the machines I have exposed to the internet.
Tired response is tired. Get a new one - it never really convinced anyone even 15 years ago, and it still doesn't now.
tired response is tired.
The money is on UNIX systems. That's where the large banks are running their transactions, where stock is being traded, where the military is running it's services, where engineering designs are stored, etc. omgponies you hacked grandpa's 10 year old computer, and added it to your botnet...just what did that get you, really? For just a few $k a month I could build an ec2 cluster that would destroy any botnet in sheer computing power...mostly because I wouldn't have to deal with crazy queing mechanisms, or nicing the tasks down enough to not be noticed by the user.
The reality is, more than anything this tired "people hack windows boxes because they can win more" response pretends to suggest, that UNIX is phenominally more secure on a basic, fundamental, architectural level than Windows. Out of the box, I can trust an app on a RHEL os. Out of the box, I can't even plug a windows machine in to a network without being behind a firewall. I've literally seen, with my own eyes, windows machines get compromised in less than 20 minutes of being online. Sure sure, sample sizes and all that...except, I've also managed hundreds of unix machines at a time without any concerns on them.
I haven't owned a car for many years now. I use a backpack for shopping; works just fine. When I need to move something large, I go all communist and rent a farking car; why own for all 365days a year when I only need one for approx 2 of them? I hear that "what if I want to move something big" argument from people with trucks quite often...who, despite the argument, have spotless truck beds that tell a tale of never having been used to move something big. Bike+car rentals...it's not a complicated concept.
except that the interconnect between the municipalities will be faster. And the consumers have jobs at companies that get high-speed network between offices, and they send their kids to schools that get high-speed interconnect between campuses. And then there's just the raising the bar part.
But other than those things yeah, I suspect no one would notice at all.
gota be it. The global warming refracted too many of the sun's rays back, and stopped the core of the sun. Any day now, it will be a red giant, and we'll just be swallowed up by it (when it expands this far, natch).
circuits do not need to have intentional communication interfaces to be hard-hacked via induction. That, and newer pacemakers do sometimes have communication interfaces.
Next up for the illustrious University of Reading: Butcher knives can chop your dick off, even if you're thinking about Marshmallow Peeps while swinging the blade!
DAMNIT! I just started getting funding for this exact experiment! No point in it now, since I won't be the first. Back to the drawing board.
There is a perfect analogy in nature to this, it is called an asymptomatic carrier. Typhoid Mary is the classic case of this. The carrier is infected with a disease but are not themselves affected by it but they can pass it on to others.
nice try at defending the idiot, but...no. As you said, in those cases the carrier is infected. In this case, the carrier is only infected with severe stupidity; as others have mentioned, this is no different than sticking a usb stick that has a virus on it up your ass. The human isn't infected with a computer virus - call it a protocol mismatch, if it makes you happy.
blood-borne infection from implanting a non-sterilized object into is arm?
I'm not the one preaching change-via-wasting-your-time, bro.
oooohh, so if I take off from work (thus having to stay later than normal) I get the privilege of standing in a long line to put my name on a blank ballot so it can be counted along with all the ballots cast by the dead. This will show the people controlling the parties that I want something different, they will see the error of their ways, and tada! Peace and happiness will happen.
No it all makes sense. And here I thought rejecting the single-party system and stirring discontent was the way to reach my goals...
Yes, brand-new issue
Lets also just forget that the guy stole source code on many occasions, and that the guy in general is just a prick.
Yes, lets forget all these things, and pretend problems just started like, yesterday. We were all born yesterday anyway, right?
the "drill baby drill" people wanted was in the areas that this wouldn't have happened - ie, closer to land, where the water isn't as deep.
yeah, the worst-case scenario could happen, and he could be reduced to just a couple hundred mill. Wouldn't that be a shame :/ I can't imagine trying to live off that much as a 26yo; ramen every day, yuck!
Do you *really* think that he hasn't diversified at least a little by now?
I'll give it a little more time to appear on my standard account then...
that the normal PC may or may not start becoming less important, has little to do with whether or not he suggested the ipad would be the only thing you'd ever need. What you're saying is tantamount to the locomotive industry laughing at the automotive industry 100 years ago, saying "ha ha! I'd like to see you carry large loads across country" when suggesting that the dominance of trains in long-distance transportation was ending. Are there still trains? Sure, but people are far more apt to drive, ride a bus, or fly now than they are to ride a train. And big rigs, planes, and a revamped boating industry move large objects around far more than trains do now.
He's free to say the PC is fading, without suggesting that it will be entirely replaced by an iPad.
odd - I guess I missed the commercials that said the iPad was supposed to be the only thing you would ever need.
except the bus isn't sexy, nor is it slim and easy to put in your pocket
or, to come up with a better way of determining who gets it.
The welfare laws of the 60s was the first time in our history that either the general population, or the government, cared about calling someone an "illegal alien." At that point, the gov had to limit the number of people eligible for welfare, so they forced you to hate immigrants. For me, that didn't work.
Up until that time the US was the "melting pot," a culture defined by it's aims toward higher ideals, and which embraced immigrants from any culture. Our strength was in the betterment of everyone. We've squandered vast wealth the last few decades, destroying the world's economical stability, by taking our wealth, flipping it in to debt, all for the benefit of mega-corps. Along the way, we stopped being an industrial and agricultural superpower because...we axed our source of low-wage workers.
Just keep in mind that whenever you get angry about immigrants, it's because a Democrat from the 60s wanted you to (they wouldn't have gotten welfare passed otherwise).
it took you 17 years (guessing that the 700k range for /. was about 2006?) to watch Star Trek 5, and you call yourself a nerd?
Star Trek 5 came out in 1989. The inter-tubes weren't even around in anything resembling the current platform at that time.
Squatters rights, eh? Damn right it's not their home.
Who said anything about "squatters rights?" Most illegal aliens live in apartments for which they pay rent.
A person's ethics can be effectively determined by whether they abide by the law, as it justifiably and accurately applies to them.
... Every single one of the Founding Fathers broke the law, and committed High Treason. If a law is unjust, that doesn't mean you have an obligation to submit to the law regardless; especially when you had no say in the law. And hint - almost no "citizen" has a say in the law these days either, we're deeply run by corporations.
I guarantee that if every illegal worker disappeared tomorrow, after the major upheaval and turmoil subsided the labour market would bring itself to a wage that American workers were willing to work for and employers were willing to pay.
And I guarantee that it wouldn't. The wealth of this nation has been consistently dependent upon indentured or otherwise black-market (pun not entirely intended), labor. There has not been a time in the history of the US where our agricultural and industrial power wasn't completely dependent upon slavery and immigrants. Only, back then we didn't call them "illegals." It was only once we got into the 60s and were no longer able to treat people as second-class citizens legally and openly, that we started losing our industrial and agricultural power. At one point, we were called the "breadbasket of the world," producing upwards of 80% of the grains consumed on the planet. No, indeed, we would not maintain our status if we got rid of ultra-low-wage workers.
Why does a mass flaunting of this so-called liberty by boldly transgressing the laws of the land that you fought to help protect not bother you?
Because I didn't join to protect land and/or the rights of white people; I joined to protect the concept of liberty and freedom. I joined because I believe all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I am disillusioned from the idea that people stop being people, with those inalienable rights, based solely on whether they were born in the US, Iraq, Sudan, or even Mexico. And as a person that visits Mexico frequently, and has seen people being burned alive on the side of the road or hung from bridges, I am intimately familiar with that which a Mexican might want to escape, and why they'd want to come here. Do they fit in perfectly? No. Is it a hard road? Yes. But either we believe in essential liberties and protect them, or we give up believing in essential liberties; it's that simple.