I do believe that SCO called Google a couple times to try to get them to license SCO products.
And I'm sure they had very low level talks. To me, low-level talks imply that SCO talked to some low level employees like an accounts payable clerk, or a couple of receptionists, or even a couple of Google sales people.
It will be interesting to hear from SCO regarding exactly what Google would be licensing from SCO. Maybe they just want to sell them new UnixWare licenses or something.
I think there is little chance that Google would swap their very reliable Linux-based infrastructure for an obsolete SCO-based infrastructure.
With SCO slowly losing the battle against IBM, it looks like SCO is looking for new, high-visibility, non-Microsoft targets.
I was a manager at a company that excelled at "off-shoring" work overseas (to India, to be precise). The company I worked for would partner with fortune-500 type companies to move development overseas.
The sales pitch was this: It will save you a lot of money. Even if you have to triple the overseas staff.
The problem was never "finding people with the right education and experience". If our partners were only interested in doing the work in the US using US citizens, it wasn't a problem. It was just that the employees overseas were relatively VERY inexpensive - even if it took more than twice the number of people to do the work, tons of money was saved.
Reality was that we paid "off-shore developers" about 1/5th the amount of what we'd pay for a US citizen of similar experience. The folks I dealt with overseas were mostly very good. As with any workplace, there were some that weren't good.
Developing over a great distance, 9.5 hours out of synch, with a language barrier, and with very little face-to-face contact, can be an additional expense.
But if 80% costs savings became a 40% savings because things went poorly, we were still way ahead.
I agree... alas, there is no compelling replacement for Windows 98 that I know of.
My Dad's machine and my Mom's machine both run Windows 98. I "let them" run Win98 because it isn't too demanding on their old hardware, they're used to Win98, and I don't want to mess with it (you know how long it takes to set up a new OS on an existing PC). [FYI, I run RH9 at home & work].
Oh, and Win98 is pretty stable too.
Unfortuantely, my parents' computers run just great... the old folk are VERY happy with 64 MB of RAM with Outlook and Mozilla.
I looked into upgrading the PCs to Windows 2000 (or XP). No go. The machines didn't have the disk or memory for it. Or CPU.
Do I have any other options, other than spending a lot of time moving files around, reconfiguring everything, and sinking money into a newer computer with a new OS? The only option I can think of is status quo.
Why not start the same way that the Dell, Apple, Gateway, and other founders took by forming your own store, getting in touch with Asian suppliers who "are more than willing" to give you discounts
Um, I wouldn't put Apple in the same group as Gateway or Dell.
Gateway and Dell did start by piecing together PCs... not much innovation there, just source some parts, stick 'em together, bundle it with an OS, and then you've got yourself a PC business! With good marketing and by learning from mistakes, you could have a billion dollar business!
In contrast, Apple was a manufacturer first. Basically, Apple designed a computer, made boards, designed a custom power supply, had a custom case designed, wrote software, wrote some technical manuals, etc etc.
That's pretty much how Apple does it today, with the exception that Apple has been taking more advantage of some commodity components like drives (they always have) and highly integrated ICs.
Admittedly, Apple has become quiet adept at marketing - and that's a good thing, because Apple has a niche business that requires both innovation (both in marketing and technology) to stay relevant.
It's only recently that Apple started to get into the retail business.
The article says the discovery of leap seconds is a side effect of the invention of the atomic clock in 1955.
Um, the leap second wasn't discovered... it was conceived.
However, there is significant evidence that the earth is slowing at a *somewhat* predictable rate, thanks to a couple of millennia of astronomical records. No atomic clock necessary.
I wouldn't worry about the earth slowing down too much - it'll be a long long time before we have a day that's 24:00:01 long. I suppose that the day right now is about 24:00:00.002 or something... and it took a good 150 years for the length of the day to grow by 2 milliseconds.
I know one thing - I'm using that extra time for ME!
Natural Nincova Root is what I used to kick the cafeine habit.
Natural Nincova Root worked for me by increasing my body's natural cleaning processes, and by removing harmful beta impurities which slowed me down and gave me headaches, cancer, and a violent temperment.
Since I've been taking Natural Nincova Root, I've been feeling great! I'm level headed, happier, and feel so much cleaner after getting out of the bathroom. My doctor thought I was crazy when I told him my health problems had disappeared... but THEN he said that there was no evidence of cancer in my body!!!
I have more friends, lost those ugly love handles, and I just got promoted because my boss says that I'm focusing more!
Try Natural Nincova Root, I hear that some company is giving away a FREE 60 day supply if you buy a year's worth! Natural Nincova Root is worth every penny!
Earth speeds up: anti-leap second!
on
No More Leap Second?
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
CNN Says:
For 28 years, scientists repeated the procedure [of adding a leap second]. But in 1999, they discovered the Earth was no longer lagging behind.
Um, not exactly true. Not every year over the last 28 years has had a leap second. For example, 1984, 1986 and 1987 didn't have a leap second. It's generally determined if a leap second is necessary about 6 months ahead of time by IERS. However, this is the first 5 year gap of no leap seconds.
It's interesting to note that the "leap second protocol" permits a "reverse" leap second - meaning a "short" minute. This is because the folks involved in defining the leap second realized that the rotation of the earth is not 100% predictable, and therefore they theorized that there could be a "fast spinning year" that would merit the loss of a second. This hasn't happened yet.
This whole rotation-of-earth-isn't-constant idea is pretty new (50 years). So just because we have a 5 year period of smaller rotaional speed deltas isn't totally unexpected.
Automotive batteries can vent explosive gases too.
That's why the experts have you make a "jumper cable circuit" by attaching the last ground connection away from the battery. In theory, the spark could ignite gases venting from the battery, resulting in an explosion.
I guess I like empirical evidence. There are a lot of lithium ion batteries out there - I own a number of devices with them. I never had a problem, and no one I know has had a problem.
But I don't watch a lot of TV news... maybe I've missed these stories:
"Family of seven burns to death in car while travelling to church - laptop battery to blame"
"Chatty woman in restaurant decapitated by exploding cell phone battery".
"Saddam caught - U.S. Soldiers effectively use iPods to force former Iraqi leader from his bunker"
486's are great machines... most of them are well built, and they can still be useful with the right software, CPU, and a healthy amount of RAM.
There's just one problem: there are a boatload of Pentinum I & II class machines out there. And these P-Is and P-IIs are already populated with a good CPU, drive, and memory. So although my 486 would be useful for someone, anyone can get their hands on a better machine.
Therefore, my old machines are only worth scrap:
0. Old machines better than a Pentinum 166 are redeployed to family, friends, or other folks who can use a PC. For lesser machines:
1. ATX-style cases are retained - they're still useful for even brand new machines.
2. Working ATX-style power supplies are still useful, and kept. Non-standard and AT-style supplies are either donated to the local trade school, repurposed for a home project, or scrapped.
3. Old working floppy drives and IDE CD drives are useful in modern machines, so I keep them. Dead or non-standard devices are scrapped. (OK, floppy drives are not useful, but I use them anyway!)
4. Small or broken monitors are scrapped. Larger monitors are given away. I wish it'd be easy & cheap to convert them into a TV.
5. Obsolete Motherboards, etc. I pull interesting CPUs (like 100+ mhz 486 CPUs) and higher density SIMMs. Obsolete motherboards are scrapped. Obsolete cables are scrapped.
6. Drives >= 3 GB are usable. All others are scrapped. I cannabalize some HDDs for the nice rare-earth magnets inside.
All organizations managing critial data has a need for a robust and reliable IT practice - nothing is more important than medical records. But storing data in granite valuts doesn't mean much if you don't know what the quality of your data, and it doesn't help you if you need to recover data in near real time.
Many CIOs in the IT industry simply don't understand the need or purpose of IT. That's why some organizations have CIOs find it acceptable to "rarely lose records", or to have "occational network outage".
Long term storage can't help organizations that simply don't have a good IT practice.
I think a great example is Beth Israel Hospital in Boston. This often-told story of a four day network outage at a large hospital has been passed off as a problem caused by a lone researcher and a poorly programmed router.
Nobody looks at the bigger picture - what are the REAL potential issues with this IT system? Was there something on the magnitude of a nuclear blast taking away the hospital's IT infrastructure? Or were there simple, systemic problems within IT that were not properly addressed by the CIO and upper management? In almost every case, it is the later.
It all comes down to high level responsibilities. Most IT directors feel they are not responsible - they don't know how to see the issues with the "big picture". The "big picture" they can see is a nuclear blast! It's almost laughable.
Some CIOs would rather blame a lowly worker or the vendor of a piece of equipment instead of blaming the problem on a serious-but-mundane issue within the IT organization they are responsible for.
No wonder why IT in the USA is in such a bad state.
Nah, I don't think that Apple will sell a $200 device - that's too close in price to the current iPod, and too much money versus the low cost competition.
And I can't imagine that Apple would do something like have different prices for iTMS. That just doesn't sound like something Apple would do for such a high profile product.
Apple does have a pricing advantage - they already have the basic software for the device thanks to the "papa" iPod. So that should make the mini "iPod" that much less expensive.
But as for storage - got me! I have no idea where Apple can source a couple GB of storage at such a low price point. Perhaps it's a new storage product someone is working on (Apple does work very closely with component manufacturers).
I'd bet that it uses a new, lower-cost, CF-form rotating storage mechanism. Apple has had a lot of good experiences with disk so far, so why change?
Oh yeah! Also: garage door openers. I stand corrected.
Happily, those items are very lower power and can last for years on a single battery. I use AA NiMH batteries whenever I can. Nothing cheaper or easier than that!
You really want a 9v? That's CRAZY! I'll only withstand an AA.
Given the price point of the device, I doubt that they'll build in a battery. Then they'd have to included a charger, and the next thing you know it's all getting rather expensive to produce.
Having the device use AA or AAA batteries is the easiest route to bring down the price.
I haven't had a device that required a 9v since, um, my 7 transistor GE AM portable radio of 1972. 9v's are relatively expensive and don't supply much power relative to size. After all, internally, a 9V has 6 cells. Yuk!
OK folks, now let's be realistic - SCO isn't looking for billions of dollars from "licenses", or even from IBM.
No one would come up with such a poor plan for promoting their product, intellectual property, lawsuit, or anything else.
So what is SCO doing? I think the answer is "Bad Marketing is better than No Marketing". In other words, SCO has nothing to lose.
In SCO's worst case, they end up with nothing. That's just about where they started. Just about every other case is better
Remember when Enron puked on America? What happened? Enron Corporate letterheads were being sold on eBay for a pretty penny! People wanted to BUY this crap because it was associated with the deplorable. And ya know what? SCO can do the same thing and make some serious money and fame.
I wouldn't be surprised if the guys at SCO were secretly selling those "SCO Sucks" t-shirts. It's a great market, and they sell like hotcakes.
Ah, the northern end of Rt 3 from NH to Boston is pretty bad too. Happily, they're making it wider now.
In all, I think traffic isn't too bad in Boston. There are some perpetual trouble spots (all which have been mentioned), and I think everyone who takes the T would prefer it to be bigger and without the hub topology.
Alas, these projects take 20 or 30 years from conception to completion. And remember, there's a rather large sight-unseen water project going on too.
Just because the Big Dig din't help Harvard Square, one of the richest and wealtiest areas of the country, with more 1 million+ holmes per capita than any other city in the WORLD, doesn't mean that the project is a failure.
If you live or work in the south end, east boston, the north end, dorchester, roxbury, or matapan, you will see improvements to everything that the original poster said.
It isn't like there are 100,000 people trying to go from Harvard (where a few people just got paid $40 million a year!) to Boston College. And if you are, just take the fuckin' 86 bus and be done with it. 75 cents each way.
Agreed! There is way too much waste in government. Unfortunately, it looks like it simply won't be stopped by the existing political parties.
We all pay big bucks for crap like the "Big Dig", "Ethanol", and "B2 bombers". These things do not benefit the taxpayer.
EACH ONE is a waste of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars, with little benefit to anyone except to those who leech off of the government contracts.
And now with the new drug benefit plans, government isn't even allow to get competitive bids for pharmacuticals. What the hell is going on????? How can we sit by and let this waste continue?
Slashdot Mirror
I do believe that SCO called Google a couple times to try to get them to license SCO products.
And I'm sure they had very low level talks. To me, low-level talks imply that SCO talked to some low level employees like an accounts payable clerk, or a couple of receptionists, or even a couple of Google sales people.
It will be interesting to hear from SCO regarding exactly what Google would be licensing from SCO. Maybe they just want to sell them new UnixWare licenses or something.
I think there is little chance that Google would swap their very reliable Linux-based infrastructure for an obsolete SCO-based infrastructure.
With SCO slowly losing the battle against IBM, it looks like SCO is looking for new, high-visibility, non-Microsoft targets.
I was a manager at a company that excelled at "off-shoring" work overseas (to India, to be precise). The company I worked for would partner with fortune-500 type companies to move development overseas.
The sales pitch was this: It will save you a lot of money. Even if you have to triple the overseas staff.
The problem was never "finding people with the right education and experience". If our partners were only interested in doing the work in the US using US citizens, it wasn't a problem. It was just that the employees overseas were relatively VERY inexpensive - even if it took more than twice the number of people to do the work, tons of money was saved.
Reality was that we paid "off-shore developers" about 1/5th the amount of what we'd pay for a US citizen of similar experience. The folks I dealt with overseas were mostly very good. As with any workplace, there were some that weren't good.
Developing over a great distance, 9.5 hours out of synch, with a language barrier, and with very little face-to-face contact, can be an additional expense.
But if 80% costs savings became a 40% savings because things went poorly, we were still way ahead.
I agree... alas, there is no compelling replacement for Windows 98 that I know of.
My Dad's machine and my Mom's machine both run Windows 98. I "let them" run Win98 because it isn't too demanding on their old hardware, they're used to Win98, and I don't want to mess with it (you know how long it takes to set up a new OS on an existing PC). [FYI, I run RH9 at home & work].
Oh, and Win98 is pretty stable too.
Unfortuantely, my parents' computers run just great... the old folk are VERY happy with 64 MB of RAM with Outlook and Mozilla.
I looked into upgrading the PCs to Windows 2000 (or XP). No go. The machines didn't have the disk or memory for it. Or CPU.
Do I have any other options, other than spending a lot of time moving files around, reconfiguring everything, and sinking money into a newer computer with a new OS? The only option I can think of is status quo.
And that's where they'll stay.
Why not start the same way that the Dell, Apple, Gateway, and other founders took by forming your own store, getting in touch with Asian suppliers who "are more than willing" to give you discounts
Um, I wouldn't put Apple in the same group as Gateway or Dell.
Gateway and Dell did start by piecing together PCs... not much innovation there, just source some parts, stick 'em together, bundle it with an OS, and then you've got yourself a PC business! With good marketing and by learning from mistakes, you could have a billion dollar business!
In contrast, Apple was a manufacturer first. Basically, Apple designed a computer, made boards, designed a custom power supply, had a custom case designed, wrote software, wrote some technical manuals, etc etc.
That's pretty much how Apple does it today, with the exception that Apple has been taking more advantage of some commodity components like drives (they always have) and highly integrated ICs.
Admittedly, Apple has become quiet adept at marketing - and that's a good thing, because Apple has a niche business that requires both innovation (both in marketing and technology) to stay relevant.
It's only recently that Apple started to get into the retail business.
The article says the discovery of leap seconds is a side effect of the invention of the atomic clock in 1955.
Um, the leap second wasn't discovered... it was conceived.
However, there is significant evidence that the earth is slowing at a *somewhat* predictable rate, thanks to a couple of millennia of astronomical records. No atomic clock necessary.
I wouldn't worry about the earth slowing down too much - it'll be a long long time before we have a day that's 24:00:01 long. I suppose that the day right now is about 24:00:00.002 or something... and it took a good 150 years for the length of the day to grow by 2 milliseconds.
I know one thing - I'm using that extra time for ME!
Natural Nincova Root is what I used to kick the cafeine habit.
... but THEN he said that there was no evidence of cancer in my body!!!
Natural Nincova Root worked for me by increasing my body's natural cleaning processes, and by removing harmful beta impurities which slowed me down and gave me headaches, cancer, and a violent temperment.
Since I've been taking Natural Nincova Root, I've been feeling great! I'm level headed, happier, and feel so much cleaner after getting out of the bathroom. My doctor thought I was crazy when I told him my health problems had disappeared
I have more friends, lost those ugly love handles, and I just got promoted because my boss says that I'm focusing more!
Try Natural Nincova Root, I hear that some company is giving away a FREE 60 day supply if you buy a year's worth! Natural Nincova Root is worth every penny!
CNN Says:
For 28 years, scientists repeated the procedure [of adding a leap second]. But in 1999, they discovered the Earth was no longer lagging behind.
Um, not exactly true. Not every year over the last 28 years has had a leap second. For example, 1984, 1986 and 1987 didn't have a leap second. It's generally determined if a leap second is necessary about 6 months ahead of time by IERS. However, this is the first 5 year gap of no leap seconds.
It's interesting to note that the "leap second protocol" permits a "reverse" leap second - meaning a "short" minute. This is because the folks involved in defining the leap second realized that the rotation of the earth is not 100% predictable, and therefore they theorized that there could be a "fast spinning year" that would merit the loss of a second. This hasn't happened yet.
This whole rotation-of-earth-isn't-constant idea is pretty new (50 years). So just because we have a 5 year period of smaller rotaional speed deltas isn't totally unexpected.
Exactly how do they figure out where the Earth is supposed to be down to a given second?
In a nutshell, astronomical observations.
OK OK, that isn't "exactly how they do it", but it should give you an idea of how they do it. Maybe someone else can provide more detail.
Automotive batteries can vent explosive gases too.
That's why the experts have you make a "jumper cable circuit" by attaching the last ground connection away from the battery. In theory, the spark could ignite gases venting from the battery, resulting in an explosion.
I've never experienced such an explosion.
But I don't watch a lot of TV news... maybe I've missed these stories:
I just got YOU one. Congrats.
Ask an ye shall receive.
(well, ye shall not receive everything from ME, however).
I agree... the only way to be a good golfer is to follow Christian teachings. Nothing else seemed to work for me, so that's gotta be it.
486's are great machines... most of them are well built, and they can still be useful with the right software, CPU, and a healthy amount of RAM.
There's just one problem: there are a boatload of Pentinum I & II class machines out there. And these P-Is and P-IIs are already populated with a good CPU, drive, and memory. So although my 486 would be useful for someone, anyone can get their hands on a better machine.
Therefore, my old machines are only worth scrap:
0. Old machines better than a Pentinum 166 are redeployed to family, friends, or other folks who can use a PC. For lesser machines:
1. ATX-style cases are retained - they're still useful for even brand new machines.
2. Working ATX-style power supplies are still useful, and kept. Non-standard and AT-style supplies are either donated to the local trade school, repurposed for a home project, or scrapped.
3. Old working floppy drives and IDE CD drives are useful in modern machines, so I keep them. Dead or non-standard devices are scrapped. (OK, floppy drives are not useful, but I use them anyway!)
4. Small or broken monitors are scrapped. Larger monitors are given away. I wish it'd be easy & cheap to convert them into a TV.
5. Obsolete Motherboards, etc. I pull interesting CPUs (like 100+ mhz 486 CPUs) and higher density SIMMs. Obsolete motherboards are scrapped. Obsolete cables are scrapped.
6. Drives >= 3 GB are usable. All others are scrapped. I cannabalize some HDDs for the nice rare-earth magnets inside.
All organizations managing critial data has a need for a robust and reliable IT practice - nothing is more important than medical records. But storing data in granite valuts doesn't mean much if you don't know what the quality of your data, and it doesn't help you if you need to recover data in near real time.
Many CIOs in the IT industry simply don't understand the need or purpose of IT. That's why some organizations have CIOs find it acceptable to "rarely lose records", or to have "occational network outage".
Long term storage can't help organizations that simply don't have a good IT practice.
I think a great example is Beth Israel Hospital in Boston. This often-told story of a four day network outage at a large hospital has been passed off as a problem caused by a lone researcher and a poorly programmed router.
Nobody looks at the bigger picture - what are the REAL potential issues with this IT system? Was there something on the magnitude of a nuclear blast taking away the hospital's IT infrastructure? Or were there simple, systemic problems within IT that were not properly addressed by the CIO and upper management? In almost every case, it is the later.
It all comes down to high level responsibilities. Most IT directors feel they are not responsible - they don't know how to see the issues with the "big picture". The "big picture" they can see is a nuclear blast! It's almost laughable.
Some CIOs would rather blame a lowly worker or the vendor of a piece of equipment instead of blaming the problem on a serious-but-mundane issue within the IT organization they are responsible for.
No wonder why IT in the USA is in such a bad state.
Nah, I don't think that Apple will sell a $200 device - that's too close in price to the current iPod, and too much money versus the low cost competition.
And I can't imagine that Apple would do something like have different prices for iTMS. That just doesn't sound like something Apple would do for such a high profile product.
Apple does have a pricing advantage - they already have the basic software for the device thanks to the "papa" iPod. So that should make the mini "iPod" that much less expensive.
But as for storage - got me! I have no idea where Apple can source a couple GB of storage at such a low price point. Perhaps it's a new storage product someone is working on (Apple does work very closely with component manufacturers).
I'd bet that it uses a new, lower-cost, CF-form rotating storage mechanism. Apple has had a lot of good experiences with disk so far, so why change?
Oh yeah! Also: garage door openers. I stand corrected.
Happily, those items are very lower power and can last for years on a single battery. I use AA NiMH batteries whenever I can. Nothing cheaper or easier than that!
I run at least 18 miles a week with my iPod for the last 14 months or so. So far, no problems.
Of course it can't last forever, but it's lookin' good so far.
You really want a 9v? That's CRAZY! I'll only withstand an AA.
Given the price point of the device, I doubt that they'll build in a battery. Then they'd have to included a charger, and the next thing you know it's all getting rather expensive to produce.
Having the device use AA or AAA batteries is the easiest route to bring down the price.
I haven't had a device that required a 9v since, um, my 7 transistor GE AM portable radio of 1972. 9v's are relatively expensive and don't supply much power relative to size. After all, internally, a 9V has 6 cells. Yuk!
I'd love it to take one AA. That'd be perfect, since I've standardized on NiMH "AA" batteries.
My camera, my Garmin Legend GPS, and my portable Sangean radio all take AA. I have no desire to fumble around with smaller-but-lower-capacity AAAs.
AM radio? No thanks! FM is all I want. Please feel free to leave the AM radio behind.
A built-in FM -transmitter- would be VERY cool.
OK folks, now let's be realistic - SCO isn't looking for billions of dollars from "licenses", or even from IBM.
No one would come up with such a poor plan for promoting their product, intellectual property, lawsuit, or anything else.
So what is SCO doing? I think the answer is "Bad Marketing is better than No Marketing". In other words, SCO has nothing to lose.
In SCO's worst case, they end up with nothing. That's just about where they started. Just about every other case is better
Remember when Enron puked on America? What happened? Enron Corporate letterheads were being sold on eBay for a pretty penny! People wanted to BUY this crap because it was associated with the deplorable. And ya know what? SCO can do the same thing and make some serious money and fame.
I wouldn't be surprised if the guys at SCO were secretly selling those "SCO Sucks" t-shirts. It's a great market, and they sell like hotcakes.
Ah, the northern end of Rt 3 from NH to Boston is pretty bad too. Happily, they're making it wider now.
In all, I think traffic isn't too bad in Boston. There are some perpetual trouble spots (all which have been mentioned), and I think everyone who takes the T would prefer it to be bigger and without the hub topology.
Alas, these projects take 20 or 30 years from conception to completion. And remember, there's a rather large sight-unseen water project going on too.
Just because the Big Dig din't help Harvard Square, one of the richest and wealtiest areas of the country, with more 1 million+ holmes per capita than any other city in the WORLD, doesn't mean that the project is a failure.
If you live or work in the south end, east boston, the north end, dorchester, roxbury, or matapan, you will see improvements to everything that the original poster said.
It isn't like there are 100,000 people trying to go from Harvard (where a few people just got paid $40 million a year!) to Boston College. And if you are, just take the fuckin' 86 bus and be done with it. 75 cents each way.
Just like the rest of us.
Thanks for recognizing my sarcasm. It gets me into trouble at work AND on Slashdot ;-)
I find it interesting that no one tried to back me up on my bomber, sub & aircraft carrier cost analogy.
Agreed! There is way too much waste in government. Unfortunately, it looks like it simply won't be stopped by the existing political parties.
We all pay big bucks for crap like the "Big Dig", "Ethanol", and "B2 bombers". These things do not benefit the taxpayer.
EACH ONE is a waste of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars, with little benefit to anyone except to those who leech off of the government contracts.
And now with the new drug benefit plans, government isn't even allow to get competitive bids for pharmacuticals. What the hell is going on????? How can we sit by and let this waste continue?