I want a desktop and games, not hours of compiling stuff, damnit:(
so why exactly did you touch gentoo ?:p
you need 64 bits so badly that you can't live without it ? i run my turion laptop happily in 32bit mode for now (currently with ubuntu), since the `rest` of the world hasnt really gained up on the bitcout yet.
runnning in 64-bit mode doesn't make your machine really stellar or ultrafast, one of the biggest differences that you can make for now, is to get a 32-bit linux and get packages compiled for your machine. (gentoo 32-bit would do aswell)
i ran some purely experimental tests here, comparing the speed of math in code compiled for i386 (ubuntu style) versus code compiled for k8 (a 'la gentoo) , now the difference in speed was enormous. if you multiply the math speed differences with the delay/lag/latency that is created while you are using the desktop interface (x-server with it's pipes and sockets, font servers, etc.), you'll get a pretty big bang.
ps. for the furious supporters of i386 compilings, ofcourse compiling every app for k8 isn't necessary, but it's time we get some other stuff than libc to i686 at least. why use ~60-70% of the cpu power that we have ? (holding back at least 80% of users from utilizing their cpu in favour of the remaining... just give the i386 dudes the source and let them compile it themselves and let's get done with this).
nope, australia isn't anywhere near me. off by nearly 10 000 km i think...
i'm pretty much in the heart of europe. nobody will enforce one single united states law here. you're dillusional my friend, albeit very patriotic.
an search engine in europe will index nicely all the websites of the free world and the american ones as well, exactly matching their content (so the marked u.s. sites will get a nice flag "sexual stuff").
if you think that people won't go for the search engines that get the real content instead of america's "filter", you're wrong again. people want to get the stuff that they need, not the stuff that the american government thinks their people should get.
honestly, if you think that anyone gives a lama's ass how you decide to shoot yourself in the foot with this, you're dead wrong. europeans actually think before they open their mouths, unlike your law makes as it seems.
talking about a free and open country seems rather unfit for the united states right now. occupying foreign countries, limiting press freedom in them, limiting the content available to their own people in their own country... to me this doesn't really seem like a highway to democracy nor freedom.
I'd say that the sites that still want to expose erotical/sexual content, would just move 1 inch outside the US, probably Canada. So while all american sites and their revenues are hit bigtime (the search engines will definitely start to filter on this), the other countries get the profit.
Every tenth poster about Madonna or Catherina Zeta Jones or any other female celebrity is somewhat sexual content.
Since i'm not an american and i'm nowhere near US, it won't affect me, but it still seems enormously stupid idea. The motivation could be correct, but the implementation will suck.
kde is not emulating windows. kde had it's current look before win2k shipped out. and it's more similar to win2k and winxp in the default look than the look of the win9x.
infact i think that the look of kde was scratched off from the look of solaris. both of them are far better for a workstation layout than anything that microsoft offers (althrough xp finally made it to the virtual desktops, before that there were only hacks on nvidia drivers to achieve this). for the home desktop it may differ, but for a professional workstation, one screen is obviously not enough.
your_flavour_of_unix + kde for working is far better than windows. gives you more chances to be productive and less chances to spend your time on things that you shouldn't do at work.
wine is a just a translator for letting the windows apps run in linux, it's supposed to look similar.
oops, I forgot the "...how do I shut that up, without spending money". My bad.
how about just switching it off ?
ok, without money you don't make it cool'n'work. but what you can do is buy an Arctic cooler for the thing, costs around 15$, not much. a nice big big fan that won't spin even at 1000rpm on that cpu, therefor is practically noiseless.
for the case... oh well, i use a psu with a 120mm vent (the psu costed me around 30$), it's quiet.
investment of 50$ (thermal paste, quiet fan, quiet psu) is worth it.
Javascript can only detect if the Browser Thinks that the image is there. Javascript doesn't have a clue if you really see it or not, it would be a massive breakout from the security jail that it's in (probably enabled in IE by default though...:p)
Besides, i can have a cleaning proxy server which replaces image ads on transmission with matching size transperent gifs, good enough (and the js. won't have a damn clue):p
Flash banners that call javascript functions are however much more complicated to hide/show. Maybe if the gpl version of the flash player will be good enough to use (last time i tried it segfaulted my browser like 10 times a day), we can definitely hack in there to show the content that we only want to see and disable the display of the ones that come from http:///ad/*.swf* matching urls (or smth alike).
Neither flash nor javascript will have any idea if i really see the ad.
you don't have to download and terminate the add:)
well at least kindof...
you make the GET/banner/foo.gif query, but you just don't read the socket after that, you close it. this way there's no way for the server to tell if your connection just broke or you blocked the ad.
livejournal people, please try to understand that this will never ever work.
if they make a more complicated system on flash banners and javascript for checking if the user really got it, you can display the banner offscreen somewhere, so it won't be annoying you in the top of the page.
worthless effort from the ad people. perhaps they should make banners worth to look at instead.
unless it's really really dark, you usually spot the interceptor too...
anyways, as far as i have cared to read, this thing just depends on the fact that there is a direct physical link between the machines... if you can't guard your optical cable, what exactly makes you think you can guard your servers themselves ?
(afaihctr - what an acronym !!!)
there are quite many computer crimes today done with "physical access" to the machine instead of the nasty network hacking. does the quantiume key encryption protect from it ?
yes you can fit some of the game stuff into the ram, but it's being enormously frequently accessed, by both the cpu and being transferred to the gpu. the bus that leads from the cpu to the ram is totally wasted when you bring up a big 3d game.
yeah sure during the pauses of loading a game the hdd controller is free, but what use is it if the memory is still lagging behind big time and your cpu doesn't have enough cache to hold the software that you want to run in there ? you will lag behind the memory-cpu pipe big big bigtime.
if you find it so hard to believe me, try it out. buy the duo core machine and start up a virus scan or audio encoding and try to play at the same time, neither of the applications will be done properly. and you'll waste a bunch of money on that, what is exactly what intel wants you to do.
the operating systems doesn't run just 2 thread when you run 2 applications, it has to take care of the display control (other than just drawing opengl for your amusement), system health checks, paging the memory correctly, handling other software that runs on your machine in the background (component services, daemons, other bloat into this list...)
there is no way that a duo core machine can encode audio and do a 3dgame at the same time:)
besides, for a while already the 3d games are not single threaded, they will fork over the 2 cpu cores and occupy both of them `to get the best fps` and other performance figures. this will result in that the machine has to synchronize memory access between the `runaway` threads, this itself creates latency etc.
a badly written multi threaded game itself will run worse on a duo core by itself, without any help from a virus scanner or a mp3 encoder:)
if it would be just so easy to stack cores ontop of themselves to raise performance, people would have been doing it for ages already... but you need the software that supports the configuration and you'll also need a good motherboard architecture below it.
3d games jam up the whole system (disk i/o, memory i/o, cpu bandwidth, graphics bandwidth that there's no damn difference how many cores you got on the cpu.
if the buses are jammed with data overload, you don't encode or scan anything.
an smp box with separate processor and separate buses and separated memory would be a whole another deal (but they if they still operate on the same disk controller, it's still f-d).
#1 pointless article of the day (but at least not bad as the dvorak story yesterday).
a) installer still needs the gui b) oracle doesn't want to licence the only the linux for dbserver, he wants to get the workistations around it too. c) homework
i'd better see him buying prozac or valium. he talks as if he needs some.
apple doesn't really want to open up anything. macosx works on the macs and on the intellimacs. if it aint broken there's no need to fix it. and if i could afford it, i'd run a mac too.
summarizing the day, larry ellison is wasting a bit pocket money, dvorak still hasn't got laid...
well i work with various opensource rdbms implementations here every day, 90% of the time only on cli since anything else would be just overhead. but then again, most of the time i work on rather small projects.
but sometimes when you've got an oracle db with over 100 tables and uncountable amount of foreign keys, triggers, store procedures, the cli just doesn't cut it anymore. you need visualization just to understand the 25 things that you're about to break with that next line.
i've worked with database schemes that are too large to fit on an A2 paper, there's no way that you can get an overview of it's current state in cli.
you may think that oracle will just ship out it's db on nongui stations with remote access, so anyone that needs a gui will use some kind of remote management tool and everybody would be happy ? this aint going to happen, this would just cramp oracle's style. they gui everything, gui is what also sells the product. and oracle certainly would also like to charge money for the linux boxes around the server box for running their gui tools on them...
so no-gui is not an answer, at least not for oracle.
it may be an answer to mysql and posgresql... you hardly ever need a gui on a raw gentoo server which just runs your db backend... but with oracle it's never as simple as that (ffs. you'd need the gui just to run their java based installer).
in some ways i agree, there's no point of giving oracle the most quickly evolving distro. larry would mess it up.
but in some other ways, let's face it, ubuntu is already quite bloated so the damage couldn't be very large:p
all-in-all, if oracle wanted to buy a distro for it's servers, i'd rather have seen them forking their own gentoo fork with prebuilt packages or taking over arch-linux. oracle knows that the market is tight, they want to roll out bigtime with this, so it's either a choice of good performance (gentoo/arch/you-name-your-good-optimized-distro-h ere) or a massive package of bloatware mixed with oracle style stuff that never quite does what you'd expect it to.
suse will do for the stuff that they chose. maybe they already felt that ubuntu could be a bit too big fish to catch, besides i don't think it was 'on sale'. whereas outside germany suse was heading down (at least in the linux communities that i move around, nobody really suses anymore), and it was therefor easier to pick up. and also, getting the novell along with it is like buying a meal and getting a free sauce with it, why the hell not ?
i remember installing oracle 8i database on linux... that was a living hell in the first attempts.
i'm running ubuntu right now on my laptop here, and i'd doubt seriously if i'd still use it if this poor thing would be overloaded with oracle mess.
oh who cares anyway, i will switch to freebsd 6.1 as soon as it comes out...
i didn't figure out the point of the whole article at all...
there were several tests where a single core turion cpu beated the core-duo thingy... and they have nearly identical power usage (especially if you include the separate memory controller that intel probably still uses)...
and if it's a cpu which is meant to be 32-bit and not built for excessive tasks, why the hell does it have to be utterly fast in the first place ? most desktops don't lag behind the cpu, they lag behind the fragmented fat32/ntfs filesystems;)
if you do benchmarks, you look for raw cpu performance, regular desktops (or laptops) that this cpu is designed for, don't need such an enormous cpu power nor benchmarking the cpu power.
in my home machine i'd rather have a via c7 which can run without a cooler, add a 10gb flash ata drive to it, a fanless psu (yep, since the system doesn't need much energy, this will do), and i have a noiseless media center. the c7 can play dvd movies from the flash drive without spinning one single thing.
and if i'd want just raw power, i'd go for the 64-bit amdx2 right away, for some stuff, you need lots of gigabytes:D
core-duo isn't fish and it isn't meat. it's rather attractive at first glance, but ultimately the king of nothing.
and besides, you know the domino theory, if the domino starts to fall, and it will eventually 'fall on your crops' so there's no environment for your stuff to grow in, what exactly will the long summer be good for ?
i wouldn't be so obsessed with end-of-the-world theory though, things are just going to change and we'll see what's going to happen. it aint good but right now we can't anymore do much about it neither, too little too late.
ps. if you drive a suv and drive it alone to get to your office which 2km away and you take a 10km route to do it, i still hate you:)
Slashdot Mirror
I want a desktop and games, not hours of compiling stuff, damnit
so why exactly did you touch gentoo ?
you need 64 bits so badly that you can't live without it ? i run my turion laptop happily in 32bit mode for now (currently with ubuntu), since the `rest` of the world hasnt really gained up on the bitcout yet.
runnning in 64-bit mode doesn't make your machine really stellar or ultrafast, one of the biggest differences that you can make for now, is to get a 32-bit linux and get packages compiled for your machine. (gentoo 32-bit would do aswell)
i ran some purely experimental tests here, comparing the speed of math in code compiled for i386 (ubuntu style) versus code compiled for k8 (a 'la gentoo) , now the difference in speed was enormous. if you multiply the math speed differences with the delay/lag/latency that is created while you are using the desktop interface (x-server with it's pipes and sockets, font servers, etc.), you'll get a pretty big bang.
ps. for the furious supporters of i386 compilings, ofcourse compiling every app for k8 isn't necessary, but it's time we get some other stuff than libc to i686 at least. why use ~60-70% of the cpu power that we have ? (holding back at least 80% of users from utilizing their cpu in favour of the remaining
nope, australia isn't anywhere near me. off by nearly 10 000 km i think ...
... to me this doesn't really seem like a highway to democracy nor freedom.
i'm pretty much in the heart of europe. nobody will enforce one single united states law here. you're dillusional my friend, albeit very patriotic.
an search engine in europe will index nicely all the websites of the free world and the american ones as well, exactly matching their content (so the marked u.s. sites will get a nice flag "sexual stuff").
if you think that people won't go for the search engines that get the real content instead of america's "filter", you're wrong again. people want to get the stuff that they need, not the stuff that the american government thinks their people should get.
honestly, if you think that anyone gives a lama's ass how you decide to shoot yourself in the foot with this, you're dead wrong. europeans actually think before they open their mouths, unlike your law makes as it seems.
talking about a free and open country seems rather unfit for the united states right now. occupying foreign countries, limiting press freedom in them, limiting the content available to their own people in their own country
but by your attitude, you'd fit right in (Y)
How exactly are they trying to enforce this ?
I'd say that the sites that still want to expose erotical/sexual content, would just move 1 inch outside the US, probably Canada. So while all american sites and their revenues are hit bigtime (the search engines will definitely start to filter on this), the other countries get the profit.
Every tenth poster about Madonna or Catherina Zeta Jones or any other female celebrity is somewhat sexual content.
Since i'm not an american and i'm nowhere near US, it won't affect me, but it still seems enormously stupid idea. The motivation could be correct, but the implementation will suck.
And Kirk should leave the alien women alone,
...
ffs man, i'm no racist but if the bitch is green
At least the piranhas don't glow in the dark like the boars of chernobyl do.
erm .... i think you're a bit off the track here :)
kde is not emulating windows. kde had it's current look before win2k shipped out. and it's more similar to win2k and winxp in the default look than the look of the win9x.
infact i think that the look of kde was scratched off from the look of solaris. both of them are far better for a workstation layout than anything that microsoft offers (althrough xp finally made it to the virtual desktops, before that there were only hacks on nvidia drivers to achieve this). for the home desktop it may differ, but for a professional workstation, one screen is obviously not enough.
your_flavour_of_unix + kde for working is far better than windows. gives you more chances to be productive and less chances to spend your time on things that you shouldn't do at work.
wine is a just a translator for letting the windows apps run in linux, it's supposed to look similar.
Hmm ... Now if we mount 4 of these 750gb drives into a raid0, i can have files of almost 3 terabytes size ?
...
Finally enough space for the todo list of mine
oops, I forgot the "...how do I shut that up, without spending money". My bad.
how about just switching it off ?
ok, without money you don't make it cool'n'work. but what you can do is buy an Arctic cooler for the thing, costs around 15$, not much. a nice big big fan that won't spin even at 1000rpm on that cpu, therefor is practically noiseless.
for the case
investment of 50$ (thermal paste, quiet fan, quiet psu) is worth it.
good idea, but many banners are served by broken scripts which don't give a lama's ass about your cache or if-modified-since flag :(
:)
still a nice idea thou, the server would be fooled if the image stuff would be static
hmm, slashdot seems to have automagically `fixed` the url example given, was meant as h-t-t-p-:-/-/*/ad/*.swf* , strip the minus chars :)
Javascript can only detect if the Browser Thinks that the image is there. Javascript doesn't have a clue if you really see it or not, it would be a massive breakout from the security jail that it's in (probably enabled in IE by default though ... :p)
:p
Besides, i can have a cleaning proxy server which replaces image ads on transmission with matching size transperent gifs, good enough (and the js. won't have a damn clue)
Flash banners that call javascript functions are however much more complicated to hide/show. Maybe if the gpl version of the flash player will be good enough to use (last time i tried it segfaulted my browser like 10 times a day), we can definitely hack in there to show the content that we only want to see and disable the display of the ones that come from http:///ad/*.swf* matching urls (or smth alike).
Neither flash nor javascript will have any idea if i really see the ad.
you don't have to download and terminate the add :)
...
/banner/foo.gif query, but you just don't read the socket after that, you close it. this way there's no way for the server to tell if your connection just broke or you blocked the ad.
well at least kindof
you make the GET
livejournal people, please try to understand that this will never ever work.
if they make a more complicated system on flash banners and javascript for checking if the user really got it, you can display the banner offscreen somewhere, so it won't be annoying you in the top of the page.
worthless effort from the ad people. perhaps they should make banners worth to look at instead.
The first time i read it, it looked like 'OpenSSH , Farewell, OpenDRM' ....
...
was affraid here for a sec already.
editors, please try to think about people's heart conditions when you put titles
so this is like sex, except we could have it ?
...
... if you can't guard your optical cable, what exactly makes you think you can guard your servers themselves ?
unless it's really really dark, you usually spot the interceptor too
anyways, as far as i have cared to read, this thing just depends on the fact that there is a direct physical link between the machines
(afaihctr - what an acronym !!!)
there are quite many computer crimes today done with "physical access" to the machine instead of the nasty network hacking. does the quantiume key encryption protect from it ?
yes you can fit some of the game stuff into the ram, but it's being enormously frequently accessed, by both the cpu and being transferred to the gpu. the bus that leads from the cpu to the ram is totally wasted when you bring up a big 3d game.
...)
:)
:)
... but you need the software that supports the configuration and you'll also need a good motherboard architecture below it.
yeah sure during the pauses of loading a game the hdd controller is free, but what use is it if the memory is still lagging behind big time and your cpu doesn't have enough cache to hold the software that you want to run in there ? you will lag behind the memory-cpu pipe big big bigtime.
if you find it so hard to believe me, try it out. buy the duo core machine and start up a virus scan or audio encoding and try to play at the same time, neither of the applications will be done properly. and you'll waste a bunch of money on that, what is exactly what intel wants you to do.
the operating systems doesn't run just 2 thread when you run 2 applications, it has to take care of the display control (other than just drawing opengl for your amusement), system health checks, paging the memory correctly, handling other software that runs on your machine in the background (component services, daemons, other bloat into this list
there is no way that a duo core machine can encode audio and do a 3dgame at the same time
besides, for a while already the 3d games are not single threaded, they will fork over the 2 cpu cores and occupy both of them `to get the best fps` and other performance figures. this will result in that the machine has to synchronize memory access between the `runaway` threads, this itself creates latency etc.
a badly written multi threaded game itself will run worse on a duo core by itself, without any help from a virus scanner or a mp3 encoder
if it would be just so easy to stack cores ontop of themselves to raise performance, people would have been doing it for ages already
and even this hype has no ground under it.
3d games jam up the whole system (disk i/o, memory i/o, cpu bandwidth, graphics bandwidth that there's no damn difference how many cores you got on the cpu.
if the buses are jammed with data overload, you don't encode or scan anything.
an smp box with separate processor and separate buses and separated memory would be a whole another deal (but they if they still operate on the same disk controller, it's still f-d).
#1 pointless article of the day (but at least not bad as the dvorak story yesterday).
^H^H^H^H
martin@martins:~$ dpkg -l | grep ii | wc -l
:)
1630
martin@martins:~$
and no i don't have every possible item installed, i don't even have most of gnome's stuff
i have perl, python , php , kde, xorg, apache and some usual developer stuff like vim/automake and a few here
now come and tell me that this is normal...
nope ...
a) installer still needs the gui
b) oracle doesn't want to licence the only the linux for dbserver, he wants to get the workistations around it too.
c) homework
i'd better see him buying prozac or valium. he talks as if he needs some.
...
apple doesn't really want to open up anything. macosx works on the macs and on the intellimacs. if it aint broken there's no need to fix it. and if i could afford it, i'd run a mac too.
summarizing the day, larry ellison is wasting a bit pocket money, dvorak still hasn't got laid
you work a lot with databases don't you ?
... you hardly ever need a gui on ... but with oracle it's never
well i work with various opensource rdbms implementations here every day,
90% of the time only on cli since anything else would be just overhead.
but then again, most of the time i work on rather small projects.
but sometimes when you've got an oracle db with over 100 tables and uncountable
amount of foreign keys, triggers, store procedures, the cli just doesn't cut
it anymore. you need visualization just to understand the 25 things that you're
about to break with that next line.
i've worked with database schemes that are too large to fit on an A2 paper,
there's no way that you can get an overview of it's current state in cli.
you may think that oracle will just ship out it's db on nongui stations with
remote access, so anyone that needs a gui will use some kind of remote management
tool and everybody would be happy ? this aint going to happen, this would just
cramp oracle's style. they gui everything, gui is what also sells the product.
and oracle certainly would also like to charge money for the linux boxes around
the server box for running their gui tools on them...
so no-gui is not an answer, at least not for oracle.
it may be an answer to mysql and posgresql
a raw gentoo server which just runs your db backend
as simple as that (ffs. you'd need the gui just to run their java based installer).
in some ways i agree, there's no point of giving oracle the most quickly evolving distro. larry would mess it up.
:p
h ere) or a massive package of bloatware mixed with oracle style stuff that never quite does what you'd expect it to.
... that was a living hell in the first attempts.
...
but in some other ways, let's face it, ubuntu is already quite bloated so the damage couldn't be very large
all-in-all, if oracle wanted to buy a distro for it's servers, i'd rather have seen them forking their own gentoo fork with prebuilt packages or taking over arch-linux. oracle knows that the market is tight, they want to roll out bigtime with this, so it's either a choice of good performance (gentoo/arch/you-name-your-good-optimized-distro-
suse will do for the stuff that they chose. maybe they already felt that ubuntu could be a bit too big fish to catch, besides i don't think it was 'on sale'. whereas outside germany suse was heading down (at least in the linux communities that i move around, nobody really suses anymore), and it was therefor easier to pick up. and also, getting the novell along with it is like buying a meal and getting a free sauce with it, why the hell not ?
i remember installing oracle 8i database on linux
i'm running ubuntu right now on my laptop here, and i'd doubt seriously if i'd still use it if this poor thing would be overloaded with oracle mess.
oh who cares anyway, i will switch to freebsd 6.1 as soon as it comes out
i didn't figure out the point of the whole article at all ...
... and they have nearly identical power usage (especially if you include the separate memory controller that intel probably still uses) ...
;)
:D
there were several tests where a single core turion cpu beated the core-duo thingy
and if it's a cpu which is meant to be 32-bit and not built for excessive tasks, why the hell does it have to be utterly fast in the first place ? most desktops don't lag behind the cpu, they lag behind the fragmented fat32/ntfs filesystems
if you do benchmarks, you look for raw cpu performance, regular desktops (or laptops) that this cpu is designed for, don't need such an enormous cpu power nor benchmarking the cpu power.
in my home machine i'd rather have a via c7 which can run without a cooler, add a 10gb flash ata drive to it, a fanless psu (yep, since the system doesn't need much energy, this will do), and i have a noiseless media center. the c7 can play dvd movies from the flash drive without spinning one single thing.
and if i'd want just raw power, i'd go for the 64-bit amdx2 right away, for some stuff, you need lots of gigabytes
core-duo isn't fish and it isn't meat. it's rather attractive at first glance, but ultimately the king of nothing.
didn't quite get your point.
...
most universal body volvo's and saab's fit more into them than 75% of the suv's do
suv is a just stupid tank unless you really live in the forest where you need a big jeep.
not everywhere the winters get shorter by this.
:)
and besides, you know the domino theory, if the domino starts to fall, and it will eventually 'fall on your crops' so there's no environment for your stuff to grow in, what exactly will the long summer be good for ?
i wouldn't be so obsessed with end-of-the-world theory though, things are just going to change and we'll see what's going to happen. it aint good but right now we can't anymore do much about it neither, too little too late.
ps. if you drive a suv and drive it alone to get to your office which 2km away and you take a 10km route to do it, i still hate you
myth nr 9.: even slashdotters read articles about SaaS before posting the first post.