Here are yet more links, regarding the terrorist attack. Only, these links are in response to a question I have... are we actually dealing with a radical sucide cult here ?
Yeah, I know, sounds wacky. However, considering the planning and fanaticism behind last tuesday's acts... and considering that the Teliban has about as much in common with Islam, as Heaven's Gate did with Christianity. Are we actually up against a group that preaches taking their lives, along with others, is a path to paradise ?
Here are some links on the subject. Decide for yourself.
I think it's time you wake up and realize the world has an organized religious suicide cult on it's hands. I think it's also time you wake up and realize that the lone super power is always going to be the object of disdain.
We do it all the time. We hate a sports team because they've won the championship x years running (unless it's our team). We hate the rich kid, the handsome guy, the beautiful woman.
Only difference is, when you and I dislike something or someone, we flame somebody up on a discussion board or crack a joke. Religious suicide cults take planes with 2 month old babies on them, and ram them into buildings.
Excuse me ?! What have my views got to do with anything ? I go to work, I raise my family, I do some charity work here and there. I'm just like the guy down the street, who is just like the other guy down the street.
The problem here is not American attitudes. Its that we're dealing with a religious suicide cult.
For example, you probably disagree. But I think I can bet the house that you'd rather disucss our differences over beer. And during the course of that conversation, I think you'd be surprised how much our day to day lives and worries coincide.
Not so for those who are involved in a suicide cult, that provides kindergarden kamps for kiddies, teaching them how to kill the great satan.
Where as, I suspect the biggest argument we'd have is whether the beer is cold or warm enough.
For those who don't know that often words have more than one meaning(e.g. people who insist on using a lower case 'a' to initiate their spelling of American).
Main Entry: maudlin Pronunciation: 'mod-l&n
Function: adjective Etymology: alteration of Mary Magdalene; from her depiction as a weeping penitent
Date: 1509
1 : drunk enough to be emotionally silly
2 : weakly and effusively sentimental
PostNuke is a good example of a true collaboration that not only allows, but encourages individuals to participate at all levels. Meaning, it's even okay of you're not a programmer.
For those who don't know. PostNuke is a weblog / Content Management System (CMS). It offers full CSS support, HTML 4.01 transitional compliance throughout, an advanced blocks system, and is fully multi-lingual enabled. PostNuke is a fork of Francisco Burzi's PHP-Nuke... in fact, the PostNuke project was started because of the closed open/source nature of PHPNuke.
Well, what did it for me is the press rolling out everyone who's suffering, and exploiting it for ratings. Husbands who've lost wives, mom's who've lost children. Certainly we have compassion for these people, but to spend a half hour filming their unthinkable grief... the only thing worse is watching it. It's exploitation of the worst kind.
Speaking as an old fart, yes, these books are about as entertaining as other of their ilk.
Ah, but if you had asked me when I was 15, I would have spoke of such such grand images, inspired lofty thoughts and inspiration to engage in great causes.
From what I understand (and I could be wrong on this one) the stories were originally for his children and were published with some prodding. If that's the case, what a legacy !
Good points. Aside from that, what happens when these criminals take a page out of the U.S.' playbook and futher obfuscate their messages with native dialects as did the U.S. with their Navaho codetalkers ?
Guilianni almost had is "brass ones" handed to him by his rash actions. Imagine the confusion in NYC if he'd been injured or worse. Throughout the history of warfare, officers and leaders were prized over other kills because of the confusion that occurs after their loss.
Yes, Bush has a great team, but transitions are messy and time consuming. I mean, do I need to see an image of Cheney on AF1 with one hand on the Bible and the other clutching his chest as he's being sworn in ?
NYC is a tough place, but imagine the political infighting that would have gummed the workes had Guilianni taken a mortal hit ?
Talk is cheap. Have we become that Oprahized that we need to FEEL good about everything ? We are called to action by the events. If we need a president to tell us that, then our enemy has already won.
I agree with the above poster. The terrorists that hit the Pentagon flew over both the White House and the Capital Building. We have since learned that other cells were at work and that other planes were targets of hijacking. There are other details we're just now getting as well. Perhaps we should temper our commentaries until we know more of the facts (I'd say all, but we'll never learn it all).
Probably Clancy-esque spectulation on my part, I think the terrorists were trying to LURE Bush into a trap. Hoping he'd rush to this scene or that, putting himself in situations that are less than secure. Yes, we have big nasty fighter jets at Andrews, but that chopper is relatively slow as it lumbers onto the WH grounds.
As for everyone whining about Bush not looking presidential. First, I'm glad he was away from the emotional impact of seeing the WTC or the Pentagon. Last thing I want is any man with that much power to make a rash emotional descision.
I'm similarly relieved that he didn't say anything rash that would destroy the chances of building a coalition or paint us into a corner. Remember, the world is watching, and whether coldly read from a teleprompter, or delivered with all the hellfire and damnation of a black Baptist preacher... words mean things.
I'm also a bit disturbed by the complaints I read here. I can't believe that we don't have what it takes within ourselves to "get it up," that we need some cheerleading a face on TV. Meaning, I can't believe we're getting worked up over STYLE issues. I really don't give a fig how he looks, but I do care deeply as to the type of response he'll take.
Imagine the confusion that would have ensued if he was attacked, even unsuccessfully ? Or perhaps disabled by falling debris as he 'helped' the resuce effort. No, I'd rather deal with Bush than add the confusion of a political transition. And having lived in NYC, I would have rather had a Mayor alive in office to make calls, obtain resources, manage a crippled city, than one who's been impaled by a steel girder.
Could you imagine the confusion, with all the security and stuff that goes on, if the President did go to the WTC or Pentagon ? The distraction and possible obstruction to the men and women who were busy saving lives ?
I think ALL of us want to go to NYC and dig out rocks. But we're more effective doing our jobs. Sending money to the Red Cross. Paying taxes that will help fund the relief efforts. Giving blood. Praying. Encouraging our neighbor.
We each have different jobs to do. I hold up those who are in the thick as heros, men and women who do the work of God. But I also realize that heroism is not the call of everyone. Nor is it necessarily helpful that everyone, especially to the bonafide heros who need the 5th graders in Virginia making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and sending them along with the nameless faces of Red Cross and Salvation Army workers.
Talk is cheap. Have we become that Oprahized that we need to FEEL good about everything ? We are called to action by the events. If we need a president to tell us that, then our enemy has already won.
Does this mean he has to play hockey without a stick? Consider this, hocky is the only game I know where you field 12 guys on a surface hard and slick enough to break bones and skulls, put sticks in their hands, knives on their feet and chase a 90mph pojectile, and where fighting is okay if it's one-on-one. If anything, a little hocky might give the boy some perspective of what it means to get his ass kicked.
On a serious note, I agree with the call that the punishment should fit the crime. I'm wondering if there is a way of handing the pup an old machine with and made to write a solution using assembly language.
Re:time for voluntary biometric identification
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 1
yeah, I know... haning my head in shame.
gad, I don't preview once... ack... bah.. feh...
Re:time for voluntary biometric identification
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 1
Yes, please. Moron, Dummy Me... The one time I didn't preview a post... and look what happens.
I was thinking the same thought... I've never have the slightest inclination to jump out of a perfectly good plane, tower or cliff. But under such circumstances, my only worry would be co-workers fighting me for the chute... and getting a running start.
Re:Superman Gets Fired
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 1
sorry, doesn't do it for me... just too large a tragedy
time for voluntary biometric identification
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
My heart is lifted by the care and the concern shown by the/. community. But as we are nerds in seek of news, I would like to see us come up with some possible solutions. Here's mine:
Now I read that there are going to be long lines at the airport. A wonderful place for a repeat of the terrorist disasters in Rome and Athens back in the mid-80's. And when it gets really, really busy, an excellent place for a bad guy to get waived through the lined on a frustrating day or by an airline employee who doesn't know what a fake driver's license looks like.
What I would like to see is some sort of voluntary program, offered by either the FAA or the airlines themselves where smart cards are issued. On them, is my face. On the chip, my fingerprint and othe biographic information. I sign up some other time than a day I'm travelling. I agree to have my information checked against known terrorists lists (only)
When I go the airport, I go to a kiosk where I hold the card up to my face to an attendant, who watches me I insert the card and verify my fingerprint, when I'm issued a ticket... it has my face on it... my baggage tags, again, with my face on it.
No, this is not foolproof. And some will still want to go through the old-fashioned line. And that's fine. But if enough people paticipate, it will take the work load off of those having to do identification the old fashioned way... and with checks against known terrorist lists (only)... may be enough to stop a wide-scale terrorist attack like the one we saw.
I hate giving up personal freedoms. But here is one case I'm willing to make an exception.
I've heard/read some reports that the plane that blew into the Pentagon was originally after the White House.
If that's true, any idea of the sudden change in plans ? The only thing I can figure (having lived in NYC and now DC), is that the Whitehouse isn't all that easy to spot from the sky when travelling at a high rate of speed. Not being a pilot, I don't know. Or perhaps the terrorist, not being from here, confused the Pentagon with the White House (unlikely, but just a random thought ?-)
You know, when you point your finger at someone, you have three pointing back at you.
When the U.S. accidentally shot down an Iraqi jetliner, did you see our citizens in the streets handing out candy ?
When was the last time your country was visited by nameless, U.S. terrorists hijacking planes full of innocent mommies and babies and ramming them into office buildings full of passive fathers and aunts who would afford who are just as consumed with their families as you ?
When was the last time your country volunteered to spill their blood for our security ? Send aid for your natural disasters ?
Yes, every country sucks at some level. The U.S. is no different. We have our faults, and we really botch things up sometimes. Why not visit us, somewhere other than NYC, and learn about us and see us in our communities, our schools, our churches ? Once you understand US, then perhaps you can point a finger at us without casting judgement upon yourself.
Up until yesterday, it was not in the American mindset that a hijacking would mean they were instantly sentenced to becoming a human bomb that would be used against their neighbor.
As for me, healthy or trained or not, I'm going to find the hot coffee pot, splash it on the first chicken-shit-bastard-scum terroist and if I'm still standing, bonk the others on the head with it.
Hopefully I'll have someone like you behind me so you can finish the work over my dead body.
In order for this scenario to play out, we would have to have, by routine, had jet fighters armed with air-to-air ordinance, and either ready to scramble somewhere within a 10 minute radius, or already in the air. Either that, we would have to equip trained law officers of these municipalities, or post soldiers, with munitions such as Stinger missiles in a position where they could get to the right place in time to make the right shot.
Then there is the issue of what happens if you miss ? If you hit the target, does it cause just as much damage when/where it crashes ? Not to mention if our free U.S. culture would even tolerate armed troopers on every corner ?
Finally, there is an issue of figuring out what's going on and who is doing what and where ? Meaning, there are several planes in NY airspace. Unless the pilot punches in 4 key the transponder code, or gets communications down to the ground that he's one of those "many other planes", how do you a plane that is both a 5 minute proxmity to Newark Aiport as it is to the WTC isn't heading in the direction of the former ?
Of course, as I say this, there are fighter jets, armed and afloat above my offices as I write.
I'm not trying to flamebait here, rather I'm thinking the length and breadth of retaliation in this horrible case.
If we are dealing with an enemy who does not understand more passive diplomatic channels
.AND.
If we are indeed dealing with an enemy who is not afraid to die to the last man (via our own commercial airplanes or otherwise)
->
Then would anything but total anihilation do the trick ?
From what I read/heard, the addition of Jet fuel created super hot fires that eventually melted some of the steel supports. That the building was essentially supported by it's outer shell, but once the girders melted, gravity and kinetic energy did the rest.
Slashdot Mirror
Here are yet more links, regarding the terrorist attack. Only, these links are in response to a question I have ... are we actually dealing with a radical sucide cult here ?
... and considering that the Teliban has about as much in common with Islam, as Heaven's Gate did with Christianity. Are we actually up against a group that preaches taking their lives, along with others, is a path to paradise ?
Yeah, I know, sounds wacky. However, considering the planning and fanaticism behind last tuesday's acts
Here are some links on the subject. Decide for yourself.
Chronology of Suicide Cults
Doomsday, Destructive Religious Cults
Suicide Makes Ten Deaths Among Guru's Followers
More Than 200 Die in Uganda Cult Mass Suicide
Aum and Terrorism
Suicide Cults The End Of The Century
AUM SUPREME TRUTH
A party, prayers, then mass suicide
Lessons to be Learned: Heaven's Gate Tragedy
Cults
I think it's time you wake up and realize the world has an organized religious suicide cult on it's hands. I think it's also time you wake up and realize that the lone super power is always going to be the object of disdain.
We do it all the time. We hate a sports team because they've won the championship x years running (unless it's our team). We hate the rich kid, the handsome guy, the beautiful woman.
Only difference is, when you and I dislike something or someone, we flame somebody up on a discussion board or crack a joke. Religious suicide cults take planes with 2 month old babies on them, and ram them into buildings.
Excuse me ?! What have my views got to do with anything ? I go to work, I raise my family, I do some charity work here and there. I'm just like the guy down the street, who is just like the other guy down the street.
The problem here is not American attitudes. Its that we're dealing with a religious suicide cult.
For example, you probably disagree. But I think I can bet the house that you'd rather disucss our differences over beer. And during the course of that conversation, I think you'd be surprised how much our day to day lives and worries coincide.
Not so for those who are involved in a suicide cult, that provides kindergarden kamps for kiddies, teaching them how to kill the great satan.
Where as, I suspect the biggest argument we'd have is whether the beer is cold or warm enough.
For those who don't know that often words have more than one meaning(e.g. people who insist on using a lower case 'a' to initiate their spelling of American).
Main Entry: maudlin
Pronunciation: 'mod-l&n
Function: adjective
Etymology: alteration of Mary Magdalene; from her depiction as a weeping penitent
Date: 1509
1 : drunk enough to be emotionally silly
2 : weakly and effusively sentimental
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
PostNuke is a good example of a true collaboration that not only allows, but encourages individuals to participate at all levels. Meaning, it's even okay of you're not a programmer.
... in fact, the PostNuke project was started because of the closed open/source nature of PHPNuke.
For those who don't know. PostNuke is a weblog / Content Management System (CMS). It offers full CSS support, HTML 4.01 transitional compliance throughout, an advanced blocks system, and is fully multi-lingual enabled. PostNuke is a fork of Francisco Burzi's PHP-Nuke
Well, what did it for me is the press rolling out everyone who's suffering, and exploiting it for ratings. Husbands who've lost wives, mom's who've lost children. Certainly we have compassion for these people, but to spend a half hour filming their unthinkable grief ... the only thing worse is watching it. It's exploitation of the worst kind.
Speaking as an old fart, yes, these books are about as entertaining as other of their ilk.
Ah, but if you had asked me when I was 15, I would have spoke of such such grand images, inspired lofty thoughts and inspiration to engage in great causes.
From what I understand (and I could be wrong on this one) the stories were originally for his children and were published with some prodding. If that's the case, what a legacy !
COBOL ?
No, that would never fly here in the U.S., we have laws against cruel and unusual punishment.
Good points. Aside from that, what happens when these criminals take a page out of the U.S.' playbook and futher obfuscate their messages with native dialects as did the U.S. with their Navaho codetalkers ?
Guilianni almost had is "brass ones" handed to him by his rash actions. Imagine the confusion in NYC if he'd been injured or worse. Throughout the history of warfare, officers and leaders were prized over other kills because of the confusion that occurs after their loss.
Yes, Bush has a great team, but transitions are messy and time consuming. I mean, do I need to see an image of Cheney on AF1 with one hand on the Bible and the other clutching his chest as he's being sworn in ?
NYC is a tough place, but imagine the political infighting that would have gummed the workes had Guilianni taken a mortal hit ?
Talk is cheap. Have we become that Oprahized that we need to FEEL good about everything ? We are called to action by the events. If we need a president to tell us that, then our enemy has already won.
... words mean things.
I agree with the above poster. The terrorists that hit the Pentagon flew over both the White House and the Capital Building. We have since learned that other cells were at work and that other planes were targets of hijacking. There are other details we're just now getting as well. Perhaps we should temper our commentaries until we know more of the facts (I'd say all, but we'll never learn it all).
Probably Clancy-esque spectulation on my part, I think the terrorists were trying to LURE Bush into a trap. Hoping he'd rush to this scene or that, putting himself in situations that are less than secure. Yes, we have big nasty fighter jets at Andrews, but that chopper is relatively slow as it lumbers onto the WH grounds.
As for everyone whining about Bush not looking presidential. First, I'm glad he was away from the emotional impact of seeing the WTC or the Pentagon. Last thing I want is any man with that much power to make a rash emotional descision.
I'm similarly relieved that he didn't say anything rash that would destroy the chances of building a coalition or paint us into a corner. Remember, the world is watching, and whether coldly read from a teleprompter, or delivered with all the hellfire and damnation of a black Baptist preacher
I'm also a bit disturbed by the complaints I read here. I can't believe that we don't have what it takes within ourselves to "get it up," that we need some cheerleading a face on TV. Meaning, I can't believe we're getting worked up over STYLE issues. I really don't give a fig how he looks, but I do care deeply as to the type of response he'll take.
Imagine the confusion that would have ensued if he was attacked, even unsuccessfully ? Or perhaps disabled by falling debris as he 'helped' the resuce effort. No, I'd rather deal with Bush than add the confusion of a political transition. And having lived in NYC, I would have rather had a Mayor alive in office to make calls, obtain resources, manage a crippled city, than one who's been impaled by a steel girder.
Could you imagine the confusion, with all the security and stuff that goes on, if the President did go to the WTC or Pentagon ? The distraction and possible obstruction to the men and women who were busy saving lives ?
I think ALL of us want to go to NYC and dig out rocks. But we're more effective doing our jobs. Sending money to the Red Cross. Paying taxes that will help fund the relief efforts. Giving blood. Praying. Encouraging our neighbor.
We each have different jobs to do. I hold up those who are in the thick as heros, men and women who do the work of God. But I also realize that heroism is not the call of everyone. Nor is it necessarily helpful that everyone, especially to the bonafide heros who need the 5th graders in Virginia making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and sending them along with the nameless faces of Red Cross and Salvation Army workers.
Talk is cheap. Have we become that Oprahized that we need to FEEL good about everything ? We are called to action by the events. If we need a president to tell us that, then our enemy has already won.
Does this mean he has to play hockey without a stick?
Consider this, hocky is the only game I know where you field 12 guys on a surface hard and slick enough to break bones and skulls, put sticks in their hands, knives on their feet and chase a 90mph pojectile, and where fighting is okay if it's one-on-one. If anything, a little hocky might give the boy some perspective of what it means to get his ass kicked.
On a serious note, I agree with the call that the punishment should fit the crime. I'm wondering if there is a way of handing the pup an old machine with and made to write a solution using assembly language.
yeah, I know ... haning my head in shame.
... ack ... bah .. feh ...
gad, I don't preview once
Yes, please. Moron, Dummy Me ... The one time I didn't preview a post ... and look what happens.
I was thinking the same thought ... I've never have the slightest inclination to jump out of a perfectly good plane, tower or cliff. But under such circumstances, my only worry would be co-workers fighting me for the chute ... and getting a running start.
sorry, doesn't do it for me ... just too large a tragedy
My heart is lifted by the care and the concern shown by the /. community. But as we are nerds in seek of news, I would like to see us come up with some possible solutions. Here's mine:
... it has my face on it ... my baggage tags, again, with my face on it.
... and with checks against known terrorist lists (only) ... may be enough to stop a wide-scale terrorist attack like the one we saw.
Back in 1995, I was the lead programmer for INSPass, the INS Passenger Accelerated Service System. Essentially, an individual trades the convenience of getting through customs for giving up their hand geometry on a card that is verified at a kiosk.
Now I read that there are going to be long lines at the airport. A wonderful place for a repeat of the terrorist disasters in Rome and Athens back in the mid-80's. And when it gets really, really busy, an excellent place for a bad guy to get waived through the lined on a frustrating day or by an airline employee who doesn't know what a fake driver's license looks like.
What I would like to see is some sort of voluntary program, offered by either the FAA or the airlines themselves where smart cards are issued. On them, is my face. On the chip, my fingerprint and othe biographic information. I sign up some other time than a day I'm travelling. I agree to have my information checked against known terrorists lists (only)
When I go the airport, I go to a kiosk where I hold the card up to my face to an attendant, who watches me I insert the card and verify my fingerprint, when I'm issued a ticket
No, this is not foolproof. And some will still want to go through the old-fashioned line. And that's fine. But if enough people paticipate, it will take the work load off of those having to do identification the old fashioned way
I hate giving up personal freedoms. But here is one case I'm willing to make an exception.
I've heard/read some reports that the plane that blew into the Pentagon was originally after the White House.
If that's true, any idea of the sudden change in plans ? The only thing I can figure (having lived in NYC and now DC), is that the Whitehouse isn't all that easy to spot from the sky when travelling at a high rate of speed. Not being a pilot, I don't know. Or perhaps the terrorist, not being from here, confused the Pentagon with the White House (unlikely, but just a random thought ?-)
Speculations ?
Religious Intolerance ? To what end ? See my comments from yesterday.
You know, when you point your finger at someone, you have three pointing back at you.
When the U.S. accidentally shot down an Iraqi jetliner, did you see our citizens in the streets handing out candy ?
When was the last time your country was visited by nameless, U.S. terrorists hijacking planes full of innocent mommies and babies and ramming them into office buildings full of passive fathers and aunts who would afford who are just as consumed with their families as you ?
When was the last time your country volunteered to spill their blood for our security ? Send aid for your natural disasters ?
Yes, every country sucks at some level. The U.S. is no different. We have our faults, and we really botch things up sometimes. Why not visit us, somewhere other than NYC, and learn about us and see us in our communities, our schools, our churches ? Once you understand US, then perhaps you can point a finger at us without casting judgement upon yourself.
I'm not so worried. As with ANY crime, you want to get to the evidence and suspects earlier than later ... especially before the trail gets cold.
Up until yesterday, it was not in the American mindset that a hijacking would mean they were instantly sentenced to becoming a human bomb that would be used against their neighbor.
As for me, healthy or trained or not, I'm going to find the hot coffee pot, splash it on the first chicken-shit-bastard-scum terroist and if I'm still standing, bonk the others on the head with it.
Hopefully I'll have someone like you behind me so you can finish the work over my dead body.
In order for this scenario to play out, we would have to have, by routine, had jet fighters armed with air-to-air ordinance, and either ready to scramble somewhere within a 10 minute radius, or already in the air. Either that, we would have to equip trained law officers of these municipalities, or post soldiers, with munitions such as Stinger missiles in a position where they could get to the right place in time to make the right shot.
Then there is the issue of what happens if you miss ? If you hit the target, does it cause just as much damage when/where it crashes ? Not to mention if our free U.S. culture would even tolerate armed troopers on every corner ?
Finally, there is an issue of figuring out what's going on and who is doing what and where ? Meaning, there are several planes in NY airspace. Unless the pilot punches in 4 key the transponder code, or gets communications down to the ground that he's one of those "many other planes", how do you a plane that is both a 5 minute proxmity to Newark Aiport as it is to the WTC isn't heading in the direction of the former ?
Of course, as I say this, there are fighter jets, armed and afloat above my offices as I write.
I'm not trying to flamebait here, rather I'm thinking the length and breadth of retaliation in this horrible case.
.AND.
If we are dealing with an enemy who does not understand more passive diplomatic channels
If we are indeed dealing with an enemy who is not afraid to die to the last man (via our own commercial airplanes or otherwise)
->
Then would anything but total anihilation do the trick ?
From what I read/heard, the addition of Jet fuel created super hot fires that eventually melted some of the steel supports. That the building was essentially supported by it's outer shell, but once the girders melted, gravity and kinetic energy did the rest.