Anything fixed to you, when compromised, can not be replaced. If a crook steals you ATM card you can get another with a different number. If a crook steals your DNA how ya gonna change it?
In Apple's "1984" commercial the bad guys (big brother and all) were loving the "garden", Apple was represented by the flying hammer that was bashing the restrictive big brother.
Trusted Computing is necessary, and is good, as long as the user has the last word on using it or not.
If the major reason for Trusted Computing is to protect Copyrighted Works, Then the final password will be in the hands of the copyright owner and not the end user.
Remember they are trying to take over the computer so they can "trust" it, becuase they belive that they can't "trust" the end user.
Suppose you walked to work every day, and at one point along the trip you cut across the yard of a corner house.
You know many others do too becuase there is a path being cut in the homeowner's nice grass.
Eventually the homeowner is gonna get sick of people cutting across his yard and put up a fence.
If it was only you, only twice a day the grass would be ok and the owner might not even know. But since it is many people trudging back and forth the grass is torn up.
If you rip and listen but did not share, that would have been ok. If you share with 2 or 3 frends that probably would have been ok too. If you rip and share with 3000 friends, the copyright holder is going to notice a path cut in his rights, and he's going to start putting up fences (drm)
If you violate copyright do you think the copyright holders are going to sit still for it?
When you buy stuff that is copyrighted, respect the copyright. There is music out there where the artists have placed it in Creative Commons licsenses or Public domain. If you want to share, share that. Ask your favorite artists to make more Public Domain or Creative Commons works.
I hate DRM, and it's bigger thug brother Trusted Computing, but I can also see that these are comming about because some of us don't respect the rights of others.
What I am saying is that when all the new OSs and New games and all the nice new kinds of media require a trusted computer to run, the average computer use will beg for trusted computers.
Meanwhile, the rest of use who do more with our computers, who write programs, will be locked out by trusted computing.
OH, wait, Are you suggesting that WE use FUD to combat trusted computing? Isn't the truth of what they intend to do you our computers bad enough?
I was not "trolling", as Coward charged from his safe location, I belive what I am saying. I am not saying what I say to ivoke anger, I am saying what I say because I think "full trusted computing" will eventually come about, perhaps even in spite of our best efforts to stop it.
Sure he can produce a document from IBM that says "Our hardware does not do this..." the same document says Palladium and DRM have to defend themselves. IBM's current TCPA won't prevent un-trusted programs from running by itself, but in the future it will become stronger, and it will be joined by parts of the newer OSs and BIOSs that will have even more capabilities. At some point all the small parts, that by themselves can't do what has been prommised, will come together into something that can. "Full Trusted Computing"
The IBM document said that the DRM and other trust management features talked about were "speculation". I don't think so. I don't think anyone is going to tell us "By the way, starting now we are going to controll all your computing"
Full Trusted computing is a logical extension of the content industries desire to protect their copyrights. Trusted computing also fits well with Microsoft's need to win over competition (linux). IBM's TCPA is just the next step to a time when our computers will ask permission from others before doing our bidding. This is what Trusted computing will do, because this is what it HAS to do. The only way to trust that a computer won't copy a copyrighted work, is to prevent that computer from running "untrusted" software. The computer must not run anything that has not been examined and stamped "OK".
I like to write programs. I like share the programs I write with others. For fun. If full trusted computing becomes the norm, I will no longer be able to do that. I won't be able to compile and run programs becuase they won't be "trusted". I may not be able to share them because my "untrustworthy" computer won't be allowed on the Internet.
IBM says it doesn't care about copyright violation, but others in the trusted computing world have said that they care very much.
We* (all computer users not just slashdot readers) have already proven that we can't be trusted. We have broken copyright agreements. We have Shared music and Movies in ways and in quantity that just are not "fair use". Because of all this "sharing" soon the people who bring you this music, won't, but they are not about to go out of business - instead they will have to try take over our computers.
It's not scare-mongering, Full Trusted Computing is comming. I hope we can stop it, I fear we can't.
Now- since that line about "stepping out of the dark" was only one line out of a much longer post, How do you address my arguements Tim C?
* I personally have iTunes, and I have ripped all my CDs into iTunes, but the only music in my iTunes that I did not pay for came from MP3.com before they changed.
Read not only the IBM document about what TCPA can only do now, but also the other documents that point out what it will do in the future.
The content industry is pushing this, they don't like people shareing. This will prevent that. Microsoft is pushing this, they don't like competion from Linux, eventually this will stop that too.
In the process it will ruin computers for all of us who do more than just surf the web and exchange email.
This will come because so few of us oppose it. The greater number of computer users don't write programs, don't care to use Linux. The greater number of computer users just want to play their games, read their email, surf the web, and IM their freinds.
Just because IBM says "Oh it's not us doing this to you it's Microsoft and DRM-wanting-folk" dosn't mean that someday Microsoft won't demand a chip that CAN lock down the computer.
Microsoft is the 1000lb Gorilla, what they want, they get, The release an OS that requires a working fritz chip and the masses will rush to buy it.
I suppose the rest of us can continue to use the Pentium IIs and PentiumIIIs that we have right now.
Nice how IBM distances itself from Paladium and DRM.. Ohh no!! TCPA is not "trusted computing" it only keeps your keys safe. It Cant stop the loading of software.
At least with apple that song comes with "authorization" to play it. If your hard disk fails, you might loose the key files and be unable to play the songs you bought.
Slashdot Mirror
Do any machines boot from the thumb drive if it is present?
I suppose that would be a big security hole.
Anything fixed to you, when compromised, can not be replaced. If a crook steals you ATM card you can get another with a different number. If a crook steals your DNA how ya gonna change it?
Probably commenting on the sig is of topic...
In Apple's "1984" commercial the bad guys (big brother and all) were loving the "garden", Apple was represented by the flying hammer that was bashing the restrictive big brother.
If the major reason for Trusted Computing is to protect Copyrighted Works, Then the final password will be in the hands of the copyright owner and not the end user.
Remember they are trying to take over the computer so they can "trust" it, becuase they belive that they can't "trust" the end user.
Hey Perhaps DUCT TAPE will work too!
& btnG=Google+Search
Just cut the proper sized peice, make sure the edges are clean. You make have to cut it into a
golden rectangle
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Golden+Ratio
but is is such a small step from trusted computing which is OK, to *full trusted computing*
Too bad we can't get the government on our side... one thing they are good at is FUD.
Gov: Mile tax, Mile tax, Mile tax
people: NO NO anything but a Mile Tax!
Gov: Anything???
My first day at boot camp, in fact at arrival at boot camp we all lined up for pneumatic shots of some sort.
Granted this is probably much smaller, and works electrically rather than pneumatically.
29 years ago. Hmm Prior art?
Really, Would someone who has done this answer? Preferably someone who used freeipod
1) what's the cheapest offer?
2) do you have to answer any of the spam you get?
can you actually open a trash account with hotmail or somesuch?
3) Can 6 people be each others five friends? (can you be a friend to someone who is being a friend to you?) (boy ain't that doublespeak!)
Yeah, I hate DRM too.
Suppose you walked to work every day, and at one point along the trip you cut across the yard of a corner house.
You know many others do too becuase there is a path being cut in the homeowner's nice grass.
Eventually the homeowner is gonna get sick of people cutting across his yard and put up a fence.
If it was only you, only twice a day the grass would be ok and the owner might not even know. But since it is many people trudging back and forth the grass is torn up.
If you rip and listen but did not share, that would have been ok. If you share with 2 or 3 frends that probably would have been ok too. If you rip and share with 3000 friends, the copyright holder is going to notice a path cut in his rights, and he's going to start putting up fences (drm)
If you violate copyright do you think the copyright holders are going to sit still for it?
When you buy stuff that is copyrighted, respect the copyright. There is music out there where the artists have placed it in Creative Commons licsenses or Public domain. If you want to share, share that. Ask your favorite artists to make more Public Domain or Creative Commons works.
I hate DRM, and it's bigger thug brother Trusted Computing, but I can also see that these are comming about because some of us don't respect the rights of others.
Oh. I stand incorrected. I thought I had heard the other. :^)
He cant be a "knight" because He's not a subject of the crown, they have another title of honor that they give to non-subjects.
Same sort of cerimony though.
What are you saying? I don't understand.
What I am saying is that when all the new OSs and New games and all the nice new kinds of media require a trusted computer to run, the average computer use will beg for trusted computers.
Meanwhile, the rest of use who do more with our computers, who write programs, will be locked out by trusted computing.
OH, wait, Are you suggesting that WE use FUD to combat trusted computing? Isn't the truth of what they intend to do you our computers bad enough?
So you don't think the record industry will force Apple to put stonger DRM on ITMS?
So you paid for the song - you knew the deal when you signed up, You agreed to it, abide by it.
If you want free as in beer, or free as in speech music, go make some or go find someone who is.
Apple's DRM lets you do lots more than Copy protected CD's (which you can't read in a computer) and WAY more than full trusted computing.
Given that the great mass of users are not programmers and will not care, and in fact will clamour for "trusted computing" what are we to do?
At least with our own network (uucp over pots?) we can continue to use what we want.
Perhaps my one comment was out of line.
What did you think of the rest of my post?
I was not "trolling", as Coward charged from his safe location, I belive what I am saying. I am not saying what I say to ivoke anger, I am saying what I say because I think "full trusted computing" will eventually come about, perhaps even in spite of our best efforts to stop it.
Sure he can produce a document from IBM that says "Our hardware does not do this..." the same document says Palladium and DRM have to defend themselves. IBM's current TCPA won't prevent un-trusted programs from running by itself, but in the future it will become stronger, and it will be joined by parts of the newer OSs and BIOSs that will have even more capabilities. At some point all the small parts, that by themselves can't do what has been prommised, will come together into something that can. "Full Trusted Computing"
The IBM document said that the DRM and other trust management features talked about were "speculation". I don't think so. I don't think anyone is going to tell us "By the way, starting now we are going to controll all your computing"
Full Trusted computing is a logical extension of the content industries desire to protect their copyrights. Trusted computing also fits well with Microsoft's need to win over competition (linux). IBM's TCPA is just the next step to a time when our computers will ask permission from others before doing our bidding. This is what Trusted computing will do, because this is what it HAS to do. The only way to trust that a computer won't copy a copyrighted work, is to prevent that computer from running "untrusted" software. The computer must not run anything that has not been examined and stamped "OK".
I like to write programs. I like share the programs I write with others. For fun. If full trusted computing becomes the norm, I will no longer be able to do that. I won't be able to compile and run programs becuase they won't be "trusted". I may not be able to share them because my "untrustworthy" computer won't be allowed on the Internet.
IBM says it doesn't care about copyright violation, but others in the trusted computing world have said that they care very much.
We* (all computer users not just slashdot readers) have already proven that we can't be trusted. We have broken copyright agreements. We have Shared music and Movies in ways and in quantity that just are not "fair use". Because of all this "sharing" soon the people who bring you this music, won't, but they are not about to go out of business - instead they will have to try take over our computers.
It's not scare-mongering, Full Trusted Computing is comming. I hope we can stop it, I fear we can't.
Now- since that line about "stepping out of the dark" was only one line out of a much longer post, How do you address my arguements Tim C?
* I personally have iTunes, and I have ripped all my CDs into iTunes, but the only music in my iTunes that I did not pay for came from MP3.com before they changed.
Why did you post anonynmously?
Read not only the IBM document about what TCPA can only do now, but also the other documents that point out what it will do in the future.
The content industry is pushing this, they don't like people shareing. This will prevent that. Microsoft is pushing this, they don't like competion from Linux, eventually this will stop that too.
In the process it will ruin computers for all of us who do more than just surf the web and exchange email.
This will come because so few of us oppose it. The greater number of computer users don't write programs, don't care to use Linux. The greater number of computer users just want to play their games, read their email, surf the web, and IM their freinds.
Just because IBM says "Oh it's not us doing this to you it's Microsoft and DRM-wanting-folk" dosn't mean that someday Microsoft won't demand a chip that CAN lock down the computer.
Microsoft is the 1000lb Gorilla, what they want, they get, The release an OS that requires a working fritz chip and the masses will rush to buy it.
I suppose the rest of us can continue to use the Pentium IIs and PentiumIIIs that we have right now.
Step into the light, Coward Who do you work for?
No laws will be made to protect us from $BADGUYS like A dcma like law that says all computers must include this (but it can be turned off)
Followed by all new routers asking to "talk to" your fritz chip before routing your packets.
Quick everyone go out and get a modem again, we could always setup our own UUCP network, unless that too becomes illegal.
Nice how IBM distances itself from Paladium and DRM.. Ohh no!! TCPA is not "trusted computing" it only keeps your keys safe. It Cant stop the loading of software.
What if the software won't load without the keys?
It's time for an "Open source" computer!
Surly we could create a system that would be simple enough that one could build it on project boards and strong enough to run Linux?
We may have to even build our own network too.
When trusted computing was a USB chip that the os could ignore, I did nothing - my os did ignore it.
When the trusted computing chip was needed to run Windows, I did nothing, I did not run windows.
When the trusted computing chip checksummed the bios, I did nothing, I could still boot linux.
When the trusted computing chip could lock out the bios or any OS not signed I did nothing...
my computer no longer worked.
So, If you liked Gmail, where google reads all your email, you'll love Gcheck, where google reads your check register!
Back in the day... I told my players what they saw and they mapped it themselves using dry erase on a large plastic sheet.
btw dry erase can become very hard to erase when left for too long.
Manual Moderation +1 insightful
I wonder if the whole reason we are seeing "trusted computing" and copy protected CDs is the mass copyright violation of the napster crowd.
MOD PARENT UP +1 insightful
and usually the re-definition of innocent is retroactive in some way, in order to maximise the
hilarity.
Are any of us so innocent as to voluntarily become Truman?
At least with apple that song comes with "authorization" to play it. If your hard disk fails, you might loose the key files and be unable to play the songs you bought.