Chances are that this guy will allow open source browsers to use the technology, he seems to have it out for MS. Who (aside from MS) would want to cripple OSS? (This doesn't help Opera of course. They could still go for embedded use I guess, they need no plugins there[.. right?]).
What a shame. Lets hope the {Net|Free}BSD ports dont follow suit - they are a lot futher along. Heres the post from the Debian GNU/OpenBSD porter: --- Subject: status debian/openbsd From: Andreas Schuldei Date: Tue, October 22, 2002 4:50 pm To: debian-bsd
There are several indications that openbsd's security is more or less up to the level what can be achived with todays debian gnu/linux.
The kernel code seems to have severe race conditions and the userspace seems to be bitten by a compareable number of security incidents as e.g. a stabel debian with a correspondig software base.
Since my reason for this port is primary to provide a more secure environment for debian users with the same feel, right now this port seems not to be worthwhile.
OpenBSD seems to make efforts to change to elf binary format some time in the future. When this happend and the audit efforts show further results i will reevaluate the situation.
Everyone who wants to carry on with this port is welcome to take over. ---
Just because it is a trend, doesn't mean it's right. I read the story and think: "Cool, Gaim has been ported." So I go to see what people are saying about it, and 90% (non-literal) of the posts are saying something about [random IM project/product/company not related to the GAIM port, or how stable it is].
Re:What "System resources" means
on
Gaim For Windows
·
· Score: 1
Er.. Are you trying to say that the amount of memory any given program on Windows uses is unmeasurable in comparison to another program? Surely not.
If you didn't notice, the story is about gaim. Trillian may well be great, but that is nothing to do with story. They didn't port to win32 because it lacked good clients, they did it "just for the heck of it".
Try installing Redhat 7.3 or Mandrake 8.2 from scratch, then do the same with Win2k/XP as you all suggest. The installers these Linux distros use make it _VERY_ easy, my mother has actually installed Mandrake 8.2 before (honest). The article may be biased, but it has been known for quite a while that "user friendly" Linux distros are easier than, or at least as easy as Windows to install.
The "Study" was done, because the main thing that Windows users coming to Linux complained about for a long time, was how hard Linux was to install. We're now past that hurdle, on to the next...
Closed source is not evil, no. But in the case of these Nvidia drivers for *BSD, it's not exactly Angelic. The problem is that the people in Nvidia just aren't too interested in BSD, so they don't put resources behind the driver. Sadly, they can't just let the code go and be done with it, they have to maintain the thing just like the windows and linux drivers.
Anyway, they do have working drivers, which were done by 2-3 people who run FreeBSD there. But other than them, noone else there is interested, so the drivers are not likely to be released (2-3 people can't maintain the thing on their own while staying in sync with the other two drivers). Also, the two initiatives by non-nvidia people to get a working driver for FreeBSD seem to have died, one officially, the other just seems to have gradually slowed to a halt.:-/
Now if the drivers had been open, *BSD would have working drivers, and all NVidia would have to do is look after the Windows driver. My next card will be a Radeon, since the only reason I run Linux is because of the lack of nvidia drivers for BSD:-(
By the way, before anyone starts telling me I'm making things up, they really DO have working drivers, I found this out from an nvidia employee on OPN who joined #FreeBSD.
I agree with everything you said, other than the IDE comment. What should have happened with IDE, is [as was stated by Jens, who recently forward-ported 2.4's IDE to 2.5], there should have been both the 2.4 IDE and the 2.5 IDE in the tree, with a kernel option to pick which one to use. That way people can use the kernel for non-IDE development and not have to worry about their harddrives melting.:-) I think now they will switch to that, otherwise Jens will have to maintain his port himself..
And I'll say it again, a longer release cycle does not mean the end result will be good. Because there is a large gap between releases right now, a lot of changes are going into each pre/rc - which means more chances for breakages. 2.4.18 was a really good release, and 2.4.19 should have built upon that. [IMO, the new IDE should have gone into 2.4.20-pre*].
No offense to Marcelo, 2.4.18 was a great release.. but I honestly think Andrew Morton would have been a better choice for maintainer. The delay between 2.4.18 and 2.4.19 has been several months long - a few months is acceptable because of the IDE changes, but this is just a bit much. The time between pre-releases has been too long recently as well - the longer between each pre, the more changes that are made between them == less testing of the changes seperately.
(Yes, I know all the arguments about how it is a "stable" series and all - but some people want new features, and 2.5 is not an option, thanks to IDE being 0wned by Martin).
Slashdot Mirror
Chances are that this guy will allow open source browsers to use the technology, he seems to have it out for MS. Who (aside from MS) would want to cripple OSS? (This doesn't help Opera of course. They could still go for embedded use I guess, they need no plugins there[.. right?]).
No flash would be great. Blocking ads in mozilla only works if they are just an image... _very_ annoying when you get flash instead.
What a shame. Lets hope the {Net|Free}BSD ports dont follow suit - they are a lot futher along.
Heres the post from the Debian GNU/OpenBSD porter:
---
Subject: status debian/openbsd
From: Andreas Schuldei
Date: Tue, October 22, 2002 4:50 pm
To: debian-bsd
There are several indications that openbsd's security is more or
less up to the level what can be achived with todays debian
gnu/linux.
The kernel code seems to have severe race conditions and the
userspace seems to be bitten by a compareable number of security
incidents as e.g. a stabel debian with a correspondig software
base.
Since my reason for this port is primary to provide a more secure
environment for debian users with the same feel, right now this
port seems not to be worthwhile.
OpenBSD seems to make efforts to change to elf binary format some
time in the future. When this happend and the audit efforts show
further results i will reevaluate the situation.
Everyone who wants to carry on with this port is welcome to take
over.
---
What is new? I don't want to download it just to find out that it is just as slow as before. _How_ is it "far superior"?
3.1 is not just a stability release. Read The Article.
Just because it is a trend, doesn't mean it's right. I read the story and think: "Cool, Gaim has been ported."
So I go to see what people are saying about it, and 90% (non-literal) of the posts are saying something about [random IM project/product/company not related to the GAIM port, or how stable it is].
Er.. Are you trying to say that the amount of memory any given program on Windows uses is unmeasurable in comparison to another program? Surely not.
Yes.. tomorrow Microsoft also plan on dumping their Windows code-base and jumping over to Linux.
I don't know if I should bother replying to this.
"No other apps were mentioned by the story."
How simple do you want it?
No, the story is clearly about GAIM being _ported_ to Windows.
I haven't been able to compile it so far, as it doesn't support 3.1alpha/beta yet. :/
Not that it should, of course, until 3.1 is out..just annoying.
If you didn't notice, the story is about gaim. Trillian may well be great, but that is nothing to do with story. They didn't port to win32 because it lacked good clients, they did it "just for the heck of it".
_WHAT IS NEW IN 4.7_?
"defaults"
Try installing Redhat 7.3 or Mandrake 8.2 from scratch, then do the same with Win2k/XP as you all suggest. The installers these Linux distros use make it _VERY_ easy, my mother has actually installed Mandrake 8.2 before (honest). The article may be biased, but it has been known for quite a while that "user friendly" Linux distros are easier than, or at least as easy as Windows to install.
The "Study" was done, because the main thing that Windows users coming to Linux complained about for a long time, was how hard Linux was to install. We're now past that hurdle, on to the next...
What is the overhead of vserver, compared to say UML?
Closed source is not evil, no. But in the case of these Nvidia drivers for *BSD, it's not exactly Angelic. The problem is that the people in Nvidia just aren't too interested in BSD, so they don't put resources behind the driver. Sadly, they can't just let the code go and be done with it, they have to maintain the thing just like the windows and linux drivers.
Anyway, they do have working drivers, which were done by 2-3 people who run FreeBSD there. But other than them, noone else there is interested, so the drivers are not likely to be released (2-3 people can't maintain the thing on their own while staying in sync with the other two drivers). Also, the two initiatives by non-nvidia people to get a working driver for FreeBSD seem to have died, one officially, the other just seems to have gradually slowed to a halt. :-/
Now if the drivers had been open, *BSD would have working drivers, and all NVidia would have to do is look after the Windows driver. My next card will be a Radeon, since the only reason I run Linux is because of the lack of nvidia drivers for BSD :-(
By the way, before anyone starts telling me I'm making things up, they really DO have working drivers, I found this out from an nvidia employee on OPN who joined #FreeBSD.
Dear god man! Use some compression on your pngs, or you may as well use bmp! That is a HUGE image for a screenshot.
To the AC who didn't bother to look at wxWindows, it is cross platform.
This would have been a lot more interesting if they compared the kernels instead of userland.. all unixes can have the same userland. blah.
... ah fuck it.
Back on topic: obviously, they planned to release a newer model at a later date - "Now with flash rom!" - ye ol' upgrade path to hell.
I agree with everything you said, other than the IDE comment. What should have happened with IDE, is [as was stated by Jens, who recently forward-ported 2.4's IDE to 2.5], there should have been both the 2.4 IDE and the 2.5 IDE in the tree, with a kernel option to pick which one to use. That way people can use the kernel for non-IDE development and not have to worry about their harddrives melting. :-) I think now they will switch to that, otherwise Jens will have to maintain his port himself..
And I'll say it again, a longer release cycle does not mean the end result will be good. Because there is a large gap between releases right now, a lot of changes are going into each pre/rc - which means more chances for breakages. 2.4.18 was a really good release, and 2.4.19 should have built upon that. [IMO, the new IDE should have gone into 2.4.20-pre*].
No offense to Marcelo, 2.4.18 was a great release.. but I honestly think Andrew Morton would have been a better choice for maintainer. The delay between 2.4.18 and 2.4.19 has been several months long - a few months is acceptable because of the IDE changes, but this is just a bit much. The time between pre-releases has been too long recently as well - the longer between each pre, the more changes that are made between them == less testing of the changes seperately.
(Yes, I know all the arguments about how it is a "stable" series and all - but some people want new features, and 2.5 is not an option, thanks to IDE being 0wned by Martin).
This is _NOT_ a troll.
In the words of Francis, from PvP: "Gaaayyyyyyy..."