"Now take someone from that environment and put them on Gnome. What does he/she experience?
1) Stuff works. 2) It looks good. 3) Few options available, but most are hidden in the registry. Those few options seem more than sufficient for the teeming masses."
And for the power user...
`4) They find Gnome registry actually isn't a registry, but a nicely organised set of XML files that are easy to navigate and edit, and not swamped with the crap you get in, say, the Windows registry.'
I don't know why people think power users can't like Gnome. It's pretty much as customisable as you want it to be. I genuinely don't understand why so many "power users" bemoan GConf. Does it keep things too clean for them? Do some power users like the clutter that comes with keeping this stuff all over the show ala KDE stylee?
Not that I'm intending to diss KDE, as that's also a cool desktop. But I don't understand the people who diss Gnome because the obscure checkbox they want happens to be a little toggle in GConf rather than on of a zillion preferences in their apps.
"Abiword is really a nice little word processor. Quite trim, nice looking GUI. Works as advertised. Much nicer than the WP part of OO.org. Also, while on the subject, gNumeric is much nicer than the spreadsheet part of OO.org."
Now if only there were a presentation part to Gnome Office then people would take it far more seriously. Sadly, until then, AbiWord and Gnumeric get written off by many because they are not part of a "whole package" despite their superiority to OOo in many areas.
Here's to hoping that changes. They are excellent applications and deserve bigger and better communities than they receive.
Talking of Java, for designing reports you could always use DataVision which I thought was promising when I used it at v0.5 - the latest vesion is 0.8.2 although the website's CSS needs a bit of love. I don't remember what the GUI compared to, although at the time I was evaluating it as a replacement for Crystal Reports.
I really don't see what difference it makes as long as longhorn is released in the next 4yrs. No matter how many computer-savvy people decide not to use it, it will still be THE os.
It matters because the market is now aware of Linux, which it never previously was. It has major corporations backing and investing in it (IBM, Novell, HP Compaq, Sun) and it has not only mostly caught up with the "features" of Windows but has surpassed them and approaching the kind of features slated for Longhorn.
Just look at the 6.8 release of the X.org X11 server. With the composite extension and cairo you'll be able to do pretty much anything offered by the Longhorn GDI. Of course, it needs to mature, to be further tested, to be further accelerated, and to have enough applications developed for it to become useful... but I think between now and mid-to-late 2006 is more than enough time for that to happen. Add to that the network transparency of X and all of a sudden Microsoft will be playing catch-up in that respect.
Also, look at Storage and the various other FOSS projects working towards that goal. It looks like WinFS may even be late in that regard to, again playing catch up.
Put all this together with the market momentum Linux is gaining (don't be surprised if it hits double figures in terms of market share by 2006) and Microsoft's position as the dominant OS player will be under massive threat.
Also, they can't afford to fuck up again on this one. The world is getting very impatient with the whole security mess. It's simply costing businesses too much to keep on top of it. FOSS operating systems have a far better security record making them even more attractive.
I could go on and on, but Microsoft is betting their monopoly future on Longhorn. And the free desktop could literally beat it to the punch.
"It's icons hardly achieve the brilliance that KDE's SVG icons have had for the past year."
My GNOME 2 desktop has had SVG icons for over a year. You're talking out of your preverbial arse with this one.
"And then there was the fiasco with the new Nautilus. Which they still haven't fixed, and probably won't for 2.8."
I wouldn't call it a fiasco. A controversial design choice, but not a fiasco. And it's not a bug, it's not something to be "fixed".
In fact, the single most issue that has caused almost all the debate is the lack of a simple way (read: not using the GConf editor) to default to browse mode. The browse mode has always been only 2 clicks away (right click and 'Browse Folder') but it appears the Nautilus developers are relenting and adding an option to default to browse mode.
"Gnome is about as relevant as XFCE and E in the Unix desktop wars of today."
Uh, yeah, ok Holmes. And Microsoft is about as relevent as Be Inc in the Desktop wars of today.
Blender is one tough program to master. I've meddled with it a bit, but I found the interface cumbersome.
Ergo, a large focus of the development since becoming open source has been to make the UI more intuitive and consistent.
The Blender UI is no longer that difficult, just different to 3DS or your other favourite 3D editor. I'd be surprised if your comment applies to the most recent version unless by "a bit" you mean 5 minutes.
Well, I quoteth: "Bill Gates is selling off his Microsoft stock as fast as he dares, and has stepped down as CEO -- clearly he sees the end of the road."
And quoteth again: "In the desktop market, Linux has moved past Apple to become the #2 player, with about 6% of the market."
This essay was written in 1999 and the postscript (which I quoted) in September, 2000. Sadly, given the above manur... inaccuracies, it's hard to take Jeff's prediction even slightly seriously.
I don't think Windows will have relinquished much market share by 2010, and would be suprised if it wasn't still a monopoly. Although I do expect/hope Linux has hit double-figured market share by then.
Linux developers, on the other hand, have the opposite approach. They write software to perform a certain function, without much concern for the GUI.
Linus me old mucka, you got it all wrang! Forgat this colonel dude and focus on old gary instead. You and ya linux pals got the wrong end of the stick. Nobody wants a colonel, they want a cool mate like gary.
The French did not plan a stupid defense in WWII. They planned a superb, WWI style defense. The problem is the Germans mounted a WWII blitzkrieg style attack, an attack that had been invented by the Germans just a few years previously.
I don't have the time to look up links and historic references, nor name the important places, but the German invasion of France was not just successful because it was a blitzkrieg.
The main reason for success were the choice of invasion points on the French borders. Rather than go at the main defenses, they "went around the back" so to speak, targetting a point the French failed to build full strength defensive positions because they believed the terrain beyond that part of the border was "not suitable" for the German's to mount an invasion.
This will definitely edge out ***MOZILLA*** as the Linux's most popular app because hardly anyone wants to view webpages.
What is it with people being assholes today? I know it's/. but really, today just seems worse than normal.
Nobody said it would become the most popular native Linux app, or that it would usurp things like Mozilla. The comment was it would be "one of the most popular native Linux apps" and has to be taken in context; that gLabels will become the de facto standard for things like label, card, CD-art, and flier design, and maybe even DTP too if it gets extended a little.
Nobody called it a web browser. Nobody said it would be more popular or more used than Mozilla. But if it comes with installed with every distro and is pointed to as the leading application for it's niche (which isn't as tiny as you think; I know people who spend ages making their CDs pretty or creating fliers for events they organise) then surely it has become "one of the most popular" applications out of the hundreds of thousands of applications out there, most of which people have to search out rather than have put in front of them.
Do I use glabels? Yes. Do I like glabels? Do I mention glabels as a Premier Application when I talk about Linux? No.
If somebody talked about needing to do something gLabels excels at, would you suggest anything else?
Oh yes [gLabels is destined for popularity], because I can't make it through the day without printing labels.
Either this is a statement about the status of Linux apps, or a comment on the poster's anal retentivness.
Or a statement of your ignorance. gLabels does more than printing labels.
UTFA (Use The... Application) before commenting on it's inadequacies. Otherwise your sarcasm simply backfires.
Not only can gLabels do labels, it does business cards, CD covers (and labels), posters, fliers, and is as good at single page DTP as any of the competition (such as Scribus).
Now who's the one suffering from anal retentivity?
Spoken like a true salesman. Buzzwords and well practised lines.
"We hope to catalyze the linux desktop industry..."
Rubbish, you're looking to manoeveure Helix into a blossoming linux desktop industry. The linux desktop industry was fine before Helix, will be fine with Helix, and fine after Helix. You're just another company catching the ride on the increasingly popular linux train. (That's not a bad thing or a criticism.)
"...to bring our better and faster time to market AV-based applications."
How are your codecs any "better" and "faster time to market" than Theora or Vorbis? Yes, you support those, but so does many other media players. In real (sic) terms, how is Helix any better than the GStreamer framework or mature apps like MPlayer?
We want to avoid a KDE/GNOME fracturing of the industry.
You mean, you want to dominate the linux AV industry? Or you want to provide a desktop neutral solution? MPlayer and Totem work fine in both KDE and GNOME for me. I'm quite unsure as to what fracturing you refer to.
Throwing salespeak at the crowd is all well and good, but could you at least make it meaningful and specific rather than a few buzzwords / hot topics thrown together?
"The man had a limited interest in facts in Bowling for Columbine and an obvious agenda for which Columbine was exploited to promote, I hear that same accusation was made for a previous "documentary" that I didn't see nor do I remember its name, and it sounds like he used the same format in 911... clips of reality with interviews of people interspersed. That doesn't make it right or accurate and certainly doesn't mean it's fair. It presents Moore's political views, just like Bowling for Columbine did."
Well, if you're going to tell me that all political coverage, including the official Whitehouse statements and press conferences, are all fair an unbiased then perhaps you have a good point.
But the reality is that the US media is full of pro-Bush propoganda and many facts are ignored. The Bush administration are the worst offenders. Just look at the presentation given to the UN by Powell for an example of how they'd gathered every single "fact" that supported their polarized "war" perspective and ignored anything pointing the other direction that they could get away with ignoring.
Yes, Moore is biased. Yes, Moore will cut out information that does not fully support his view if he can look at it from a different angle. And if you don't know that then you don't have two grey cells to rub together. The average viewer knows he's not out to do Bush any favours, and why should he? The Bush administration has it's own spin doctors. Moore is out to spin things the other way, because until recently there have been very few people prepared to do that.
Over here (UK) we're used to constant negative press as people express their opinions about everything. It's a good thing and it's something evidently lacking in America given the uproar that a bit of negative film has caused.
I can't wait to upgrage my box to run this and HL2, then have to throw it all in the trash next year so I can upgrade to a Longhorn spec machine. Wheeeee!
Why would you want to play Longhorn? It doesn't look like a very fun game.
What's that? It isn't a game? But what about the...
Oh right.
but what about the...
Ah ok.
But why would they bother to do that? Did they think Enlightenment was going to be ready before - can't say Doom 3 - Duke Nukem Forever shipped? Crazy multinationals...
Did you script the changes you made so the next time, because there's always a next time especially with Windows, you don't have to do it all by hand?
A simle WSH script to automate those registry changes might save you a bunch of time and headachs next time around.
What in the name of mother-fucking-hell are you talking about?
I want to use the freaking thing, not learn how to script and canoodle it through the registry.
Re:How YOU can help Open Source!
on
Mozilla 1.7 Released
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I know the OP was trying to be funny about the momentum Mozilla has built up since Netscape fired everybody, but he's really far from the truth.
When out of work, I was massively unproductive. Between looking for a job, being depressed, and day-time TV (which is hypnotically bad), it's difficult to get things going with your open source work.
It wasn't until I was contracted to work on my preferred open source project that we made tangible progress.
If you want to help Free Software (which is different open source) then hire the developers to work on Free Software projects. Then they'll be doubly productive motivated by both the project and the fact they can survive in todays dog-eat-dog money-makes-the-world-go-around pay-the-mortgage-or-live-on-the-street civilization of ours.
I do believe some ex-Netscape guys are paid to work on Mozilla by the Mozilla Foundation, and various others are paid to work on Mozilla by the various Free Software oriented companies. I think it was more Mozilla being unshackled from Netscape than the Netscape employees being unshackled from Netscape that has unleashed the recent wave of Mozilla improvements.
Is it just me, or are the kernel version numbers escalating rather quickly. Already at 2.6.7? Isn't the 2.4 kernel still at 2.4.2x? Can someone explain to me the reason behind the quick rise? Are they just anxious to get to v.3?
Oh poor dear. It's just you.
26 > 7, significantly. I know it would make it easier for simpletons to digest if the number was written 2.6.07 but then again kernel code isn't for simpletons.
If you have Firefox, make sure to get the Linky plugin (I'm not responsible for that one, but it is a very useful plugin) if you like to open multiple links at once from a given webpage.
Yeah, I hear that - opening multiple links - can be quite difficult when using your left hand.
Slashdot Mirror
"Now take someone from that environment and put them on Gnome. What does he/she experience?
1) Stuff works.
2) It looks good.
3) Few options available, but most are hidden in the registry. Those few options seem more than sufficient for the teeming masses."
And for the power user...
`4) They find Gnome registry actually isn't a registry, but a nicely organised set of XML files that are easy to navigate and edit, and not swamped with the crap you get in, say, the Windows registry.'
I don't know why people think power users can't like Gnome. It's pretty much as customisable as you want it to be. I genuinely don't understand why so many "power users" bemoan GConf. Does it keep things too clean for them? Do some power users like the clutter that comes with keeping this stuff all over the show ala KDE stylee?
Not that I'm intending to diss KDE, as that's also a cool desktop. But I don't understand the people who diss Gnome because the obscure checkbox they want happens to be a little toggle in GConf rather than on of a zillion preferences in their apps.
"Abiword is really a nice little word processor. Quite trim, nice looking GUI. Works as advertised. Much nicer than the WP part of OO.org. Also, while on the subject, gNumeric is much nicer than the spreadsheet part of OO.org."
Now if only there were a presentation part to Gnome Office then people would take it far more seriously. Sadly, until then, AbiWord and Gnumeric get written off by many because they are not part of a "whole package" despite their superiority to OOo in many areas.
Here's to hoping that changes. They are excellent applications and deserve bigger and better communities than they receive.
For the sick puppies who actually like PHP, there's the PHP-GTK coded Agata Reports which is a general reporting front-end.
Talking of Java, for designing reports you could always use DataVision which I thought was promising when I used it at v0.5 - the latest vesion is 0.8.2 although the website's CSS needs a bit of love. I don't remember what the GUI compared to, although at the time I was evaluating it as a replacement for Crystal Reports.
"Unix-like systems are going to win out in the end. That is why Mac's OS X looks like a smarter move every day."
It makes you wonder what kind of impact might be made by an x86-ready OS X.
"One problem with Konghorn..."
Oh dear Lord. Don't tell me the KDE team are reimplementing Longhorn.
I really don't see what difference it makes as long as longhorn is released in the next 4yrs. No matter how many computer-savvy people decide not to use it, it will still be THE os.
It matters because the market is now aware of Linux, which it never previously was. It has major corporations backing and investing in it (IBM, Novell, HP Compaq, Sun) and it has not only mostly caught up with the "features" of Windows but has surpassed them and approaching the kind of features slated for Longhorn.
Just look at the 6.8 release of the X.org X11 server. With the composite extension and cairo you'll be able to do pretty much anything offered by the Longhorn GDI. Of course, it needs to mature, to be further tested, to be further accelerated, and to have enough applications developed for it to become useful... but I think between now and mid-to-late 2006 is more than enough time for that to happen. Add to that the network transparency of X and all of a sudden Microsoft will be playing catch-up in that respect.
Also, look at Storage and the various other FOSS projects working towards that goal. It looks like WinFS may even be late in that regard to, again playing catch up.
Put all this together with the market momentum Linux is gaining (don't be surprised if it hits double figures in terms of market share by 2006) and Microsoft's position as the dominant OS player will be under massive threat.
Also, they can't afford to fuck up again on this one. The world is getting very impatient with the whole security mess. It's simply costing businesses too much to keep on top of it. FOSS operating systems have a far better security record making them even more attractive.
I could go on and on, but Microsoft is betting their monopoly future on Longhorn. And the free desktop could literally beat it to the punch.
Ok, I'll bite...
"It's icons hardly achieve the brilliance that KDE's SVG icons have had for the past year."
My GNOME 2 desktop has had SVG icons for over a year. You're talking out of your preverbial arse with this one.
"And then there was the fiasco with the new Nautilus. Which they still haven't fixed, and probably won't for 2.8."
I wouldn't call it a fiasco. A controversial design choice, but not a fiasco. And it's not a bug, it's not something to be "fixed".
In fact, the single most issue that has caused almost all the debate is the lack of a simple way (read: not using the GConf editor) to default to browse mode. The browse mode has always been only 2 clicks away (right click and 'Browse Folder') but it appears the Nautilus developers are relenting and adding an option to default to browse mode.
"Gnome is about as relevant as XFCE and E in the Unix desktop wars of today."
Uh, yeah, ok Holmes. And Microsoft is about as relevent as Be Inc in the Desktop wars of today.
Blender is one tough program to master. I've meddled with it a bit, but I found the interface cumbersome.
Ergo, a large focus of the development since becoming open source has been to make the UI more intuitive and consistent.
The Blender UI is no longer that difficult, just different to 3DS or your other favourite 3D editor. I'd be surprised if your comment applies to the most recent version unless by "a bit" you mean 5 minutes.
If you go through the the blender3d.org tutorials then get back on the "cumbersome" UI.
fine for me.I guess X.org will to.Are there
Woah, what's this? The DNS equivalent of Where's Waldo?
Spot the domain, inconspicuously placed among badly spaced sentences!
Jeff Prothero's prediction...
Well, I quoteth: "Bill Gates is selling off his Microsoft stock as fast as he dares, and has stepped down as CEO -- clearly he sees the end of the road."
And quoteth again: "In the desktop market, Linux has moved past Apple to become the #2 player, with about 6% of the market."
This essay was written in 1999 and the postscript (which I quoted) in September, 2000. Sadly, given the above manur... inaccuracies, it's hard to take Jeff's prediction even slightly seriously.
I don't think Windows will have relinquished much market share by 2010, and would be suprised if it wasn't still a monopoly. Although I do expect/hope Linux has hit double-figured market share by then.
Linux developers, on the other hand, have the opposite approach. They write software to perform a certain function, without much concern for the GUI.
Linus me old mucka, you got it all wrang! Forgat this colonel dude and focus on old gary instead. You and ya linux pals got the wrong end of the stick. Nobody wants a colonel, they want a cool mate like gary.
The French did not plan a stupid defense in WWII. They planned a superb, WWI style defense. The problem is the Germans mounted a WWII blitzkrieg style attack, an attack that had been invented by the Germans just a few years previously.
I don't have the time to look up links and historic references, nor name the important places, but the German invasion of France was not just successful because it was a blitzkrieg.
The main reason for success were the choice of invasion points on the French borders. Rather than go at the main defenses, they "went around the back" so to speak, targetting a point the French failed to build full strength defensive positions because they believed the terrain beyond that part of the border was "not suitable" for the German's to mount an invasion.
This will definitely edge out ***MOZILLA*** as the Linux's most popular app because hardly anyone wants to view webpages.
/. but really, today just seems worse than normal.
What is it with people being assholes today? I know it's
Nobody said it would become the most popular native Linux app, or that it would usurp things like Mozilla. The comment was it would be "one of the most popular native Linux apps" and has to be taken in context; that gLabels will become the de facto standard for things like label, card, CD-art, and flier design, and maybe even DTP too if it gets extended a little.
Nobody called it a web browser. Nobody said it would be more popular or more used than Mozilla. But if it comes with installed with every distro and is pointed to as the leading application for it's niche (which isn't as tiny as you think; I know people who spend ages making their CDs pretty or creating fliers for events they organise) then surely it has become "one of the most popular" applications out of the hundreds of thousands of applications out there, most of which people have to search out rather than have put in front of them.
Do I use glabels? Yes. Do I like glabels? Do I mention glabels as a Premier Application when I talk about Linux? No.
If somebody talked about needing to do something gLabels excels at, would you suggest anything else?
'Nuff said.
Oh yes [gLabels is destined for popularity], because I can't make it through the day without printing labels.
... Application) before commenting on it's inadequacies. Otherwise your sarcasm simply backfires.
Either this is a statement about the status of Linux apps, or a comment on the poster's anal retentivness.
Or a statement of your ignorance. gLabels does more than printing labels.
UTFA (Use The
Not only can gLabels do labels, it does business cards, CD covers (and labels), posters, fliers, and is as good at single page DTP as any of the competition (such as Scribus).
Now who's the one suffering from anal retentivity?
MOD PARENT UP
It's an important point in reply to the FUD that preceeds it.
Spoken like a true salesman. Buzzwords and well practised lines.
"We hope to catalyze the linux desktop industry..."
Rubbish, you're looking to manoeveure Helix into a blossoming linux desktop industry. The linux desktop industry was fine before Helix, will be fine with Helix, and fine after Helix. You're just another company catching the ride on the increasingly popular linux train. (That's not a bad thing or a criticism.)
"...to bring our better and faster time to market AV-based applications."
How are your codecs any "better" and "faster time to market" than Theora or Vorbis? Yes, you support those, but so does many other media players. In real (sic) terms, how is Helix any better than the GStreamer framework or mature apps like MPlayer?
We want to avoid a KDE/GNOME fracturing of the industry.
You mean, you want to dominate the linux AV industry? Or you want to provide a desktop neutral solution? MPlayer and Totem work fine in both KDE and GNOME for me. I'm quite unsure as to what fracturing you refer to.
Throwing salespeak at the crowd is all well and good, but could you at least make it meaningful and specific rather than a few buzzwords / hot topics thrown together?
"The man had a limited interest in facts in Bowling for Columbine and an obvious agenda for which Columbine was exploited to promote, I hear that same accusation was made for a previous "documentary" that I didn't see nor do I remember its name, and it sounds like he used the same format in 911... clips of reality with interviews of people interspersed. That doesn't make it right or accurate and certainly doesn't mean it's fair. It presents Moore's political views, just like Bowling for Columbine did."
Well, if you're going to tell me that all political coverage, including the official Whitehouse statements and press conferences, are all fair an unbiased then perhaps you have a good point.
But the reality is that the US media is full of pro-Bush propoganda and many facts are ignored. The Bush administration are the worst offenders. Just look at the presentation given to the UN by Powell for an example of how they'd gathered every single "fact" that supported their polarized "war" perspective and ignored anything pointing the other direction that they could get away with ignoring.
Yes, Moore is biased. Yes, Moore will cut out information that does not fully support his view if he can look at it from a different angle. And if you don't know that then you don't have two grey cells to rub together. The average viewer knows he's not out to do Bush any favours, and why should he? The Bush administration has it's own spin doctors. Moore is out to spin things the other way, because until recently there have been very few people prepared to do that.
Over here (UK) we're used to constant negative press as people express their opinions about everything. It's a good thing and it's something evidently lacking in America given the uproar that a bit of negative film has caused.
I can't wait to upgrage my box to run this and HL2, then have to throw it all in the trash next year so I can upgrade to a Longhorn spec machine. Wheeeee!
Why would you want to play Longhorn? It doesn't look like a very fun game.
What's that? It isn't a game? But what about the...
Oh right.
but what about the...
Ah ok.
But why would they bother to do that? Did they think Enlightenment was going to be ready before - can't say Doom 3 - Duke Nukem Forever shipped? Crazy multinationals...
Did you script the changes you made so the next time, because there's always a next time especially with Windows, you don't have to do it all by hand?
A simle WSH script to automate those registry changes might save you a bunch of time and headachs next time around.
What in the name of mother-fucking-hell are you talking about?
I want to use the freaking thing, not learn how to script and canoodle it through the registry.
I know the OP was trying to be funny about the momentum Mozilla has built up since Netscape fired everybody, but he's really far from the truth.
When out of work, I was massively unproductive. Between looking for a job, being depressed, and day-time TV (which is hypnotically bad), it's difficult to get things going with your open source work.
It wasn't until I was contracted to work on my preferred open source project that we made tangible progress.
If you want to help Free Software (which is different open source) then hire the developers to work on Free Software projects. Then they'll be doubly productive motivated by both the project and the fact they can survive in todays dog-eat-dog money-makes-the-world-go-around pay-the-mortgage-or-live-on-the-street civilization of ours.
I do believe some ex-Netscape guys are paid to work on Mozilla by the Mozilla Foundation, and various others are paid to work on Mozilla by the various Free Software oriented companies. I think it was more Mozilla being unshackled from Netscape than the Netscape employees being unshackled from Netscape that has unleashed the recent wave of Mozilla improvements.
Is it just me, or are the kernel version numbers escalating rather quickly. Already at 2.6.7? Isn't the 2.4 kernel still at 2.4.2x? Can someone explain to me the reason behind the quick rise? Are they just anxious to get to v.3?
Oh poor dear. It's just you.
26 > 7, significantly. I know it would make it easier for simpletons to digest if the number was written 2.6.07 but then again kernel code isn't for simpletons.
Meow.
One of the following (if you can't work out which, then you deserve the consequences) ...
1. cp ~/.mozilla/default//bookmarks.html ~/backup/
2. rm -rf ~/*
If you have Firefox, make sure to get the Linky plugin (I'm not responsible for that one, but it is a very useful plugin) if you like to open multiple links at once from a given webpage.
Yeah, I hear that - opening multiple links - can be quite difficult when using your left hand.
The 100 megs is here ~today~
Makes you wonder how long ago they could have made this available, since they're only really upping it as a preemptive strike against GMail.