Being on "the list" in and of itself means nothing. Aside from some of the more esoteric methods of behavior detection; being able to look at, and pick apart the binary is an important part of being able to detect it.
Just saying "Bad Prog V2.11" is spyware does me no good if your software can't detect if BadProg.exe is present.
ok, I give up, you've obviously missed the original part of the thread that talked about MS poisoning the executables to begin with. You win, it's impossible.
ok, I obviously didn't explain my concept very well. I'm not talking about flawed css's here folks. Anyone can do that with any software. Spotting a UA and sending it an evil CSS is easy and doesn't need to be done by the manufacturer. Joe 6pack with a hardon for somebody can do it with apache if he wants.
I'm talking MS, auto update, patch Tuesday, firing in an actual NO KIDDING alteration to IIS CODE ITSELF (note, I'm not talking pseudo code that gets stuffed down the wire to a client) that makes it behave differently with one browser then when caught claiming "Oops I made a boo boo. Here it's fixed."
Yes, some IE users will leave as I've already stated, but the bulk of the unwashed masses are going to go "Evil firefox! can't make it work so it's bad!"
again.. I'll type slow so as to be clear. NOT CSS!!!
Not unless somebody could prove it was done intentionally.
"Gee, we were trying to make IIS more compatible with third party software, and our developers messed up really big. It worked great during our testing. We've already issued a bugfix that takes care of the problem. See how responsible we are. sorry!"
Like I said though, by that time the damage is already done, and it's not like MS hasn't weathered bad PR before and come out smelling like a rose.
Personally I think we're going to see the lines being blurred even further between local content and remote content. It's going to become very difficult to figure out what's local to our machines and what's really hosted on a server halfway across the world. The internet has leveraged itself into a pervasive part of our machines and lives. How many slashdotters have had a network outage and sat at their machines all forlorn because it seemed like something critical was missing.. i have.
This time however there is a new kid (firefox) in town that is gonna be hard to kill off like they did with netscape.
Not to offer MS any great ideas, but it'll be a lot easier than it was then. In the early days MS didn't have a reasonably large end user base of web servers to draw from. Today, while not a vast majority, there is a fairly large number of web servers running on the web. With automagic updates happening it would be cheese for IIS to just start identifying and screwing with Mozilla based browsers from the start. They wouldn't have to change anything, just take a little break between each line of html. Essentially that would cause Firefox to run so poorly on IIS sites that it wouldn't be usable.
We all know the slashdot crowd will just say "I won't go to IIS sites then" and there would be a group of people exactly like that. Backlash would happen, MS would have to blush a bit and 'release' a patch claiming an accident happened but the damage to FF's reputation would already be done because the average joe user on the web is going to only remember how firefox absolutely crawled on insert-iis-site-here.com but IE7 flew like a banshee.
I'm not trying to bash here, but folks *do* have to realize that MS *is* in a position to do a lot of really evil shit that they're (presumably) not. It only takes a couple days of a "bug" in a patch to create a serious backlash for a client product to see permanent damage.
Also let us not forget that it would be GREAT for MS to make a serious push into this section of the market, it would mean that google/yahoo would have to inovate and increase their game!....
And what happens if google/yahoo et al don't win the game? Then what? Are we all going to be sitting here on slashdot in 5 years referring to this thread and saying "Aww, shucks Google just didn't have it in 'em." or will there be posts about the evil empire that is Microsoft and how they tore in and totally destroyed 'search' with their disruptive monopoly?
We all win, just like the browser wars... The best browser came out on top and we got Firefox:)
Yes, I do believe you're right. The best browser did come out on top, and yes.. you did get Firefox...
Using your micro-manager as an example. Managers are often not trained, and not capable to do the work IT does. Very often dissisions that can affect an entire company need to be made. Its the IT departments job to ensure that the right desisions are made. Beyond that, what if the server goes down after 5pm?, (time wise) or new and/(inclusive)or better methods for doing things for the company exist, where discoverd. Is it not in the companies best interests for this to implemented. Management will not know of there existince, or if they would be better for the company (and generaly, if the company is managed proporly, if the company does well, the employees do well. Not to say that this always happens, but its how they should)
Good communication, including spelling is also a must for management in any environment. Can you spot the blatent errors in that quote? If not--ask any of your hourly people.
(hint: big words aren't always spelled like they're pronounced and if you're going to misspell something, at least misspell it consistently)
i hate to fall into the trap, but this is the second time. FUNDAMENTAL!
As a developer of about 17 yrs now, I don't have a degree. I've just cracked the mighty 40 yr mark and I'm certainly not heading back to college either. I'm by no means the best programmer in the world and I have my limitations. I think knowing one's limitations and having the ability to research beyond them is far more important than knowing how to design a compiler etc. My employer wants a functional ERP system that interfaces with online ordering and inventory control. Somehow I don't see where a compiler is going to help me there. If I were an academic type, ok... I'd go along with that.
Granted, this is just my opinion, and my oldest son is already in college. The youngest is 13 and certainly will be doing the college route as well. Both want to be programmers and I want to make sure they have every tool available to them.
personally, were I a customer, I would just sorta chuckle to myself and move along. Then again I never thought whining to potential customers about their choice of software was a viable method of increasing profits/page hits anyhow.
After all, if uptime wasn't an issue why would companies spend so much on UPS's?
because most users don't care about how long a server has BEEN running, they care that it's running [properly] *now* and those lovely UPS's don't protect your uptime as much as they protect you from unplanned downtime. There *is* a difference there. EVERY server needs maintenance reboots etc.
Wow, you've got some very serious issues going on that spending any amount of time on/. will only make worse if not intolerable.
Millions of single file downloads I can accept.. somewhere.. yes. Another billion in tar.gz? ok.. *maybe* but a billion is a whole lot. You've still not addressed the issue however, which as I understand it is simplicity of install and that a single windows install package most often has all of the required dependencies within the package itself. That's not usually the case with linux distributions which tend to require that a package be installed prior to, or with the package you're installing.
Source code? I can get source code to applications for windows. I even write some; and happily look at the source. There *are* open source windows applications out there. That's not a linux specialty. It's the computer world, and us geeks like to have a go at the grizzly entrails of an application.
RPMs? Yep they work most of the time. Until a package maintainer requires the use of a particular version of a library that is now too old, or too new--or otherwise conflicts with something else. Yeah, I'm sure that there are ways to get around this with linux, but the average user isn't going to know (or care) how to do it. I'd hazard to guess that more.rpm and.deb's fail in this manner than Installshields (proportionally speaking!)
Now of course you mention sourceforge and the others. yes, they're fantastic resources and valuable in the extreme. However lumping them all together and claiming more available software is kinda a bad thing. Many of those projects are extremely focused on one tiny aspect of one very esoteric segment of computing, many times uncompleted and abandoned, wrapped around the axles in poorly chosen coding styles, esoteric languages and pointed ideology that make it distasteful for the average user. JoeBlow doesn't give a rats posterior if mp3 is "encumbered." He just wants to listen to music.
I'm not trying to set you off, or light a flame war. I've even tried to be really diplomatic and refrain from zealotry and insults. I'm not a Windows lackey, but I use it. I'm also not a Linux lackey either.. but I use that too. I prefer to use the best tool (in my opinion) for the job. My servers rock as linux. My desktop is Windows 2000. You'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands, or show me a linux desktop that can keep up. My kids will be overjoyed to find those games running in X.
By the way, what OS always has the best uptimes? Linux right...
Why is uptime constantly used as a measure of all things good and wonderful in the IT world? Those updates are pretty important, and every now and then a healthy reboot will load some of those new kernel toys/fixes etc. Not to mention, a fresh boot from time to time can expose problems that might otherwise be hidden by an old (but now updated) driver etc.
You don't actually have to *use* your cell phone on the road, just being powered on is enough to track it's location. The phone does all the "Hi! Here I am!" stuff all by itself.
How come when the post above you says almost exactly the same thing you did, you get modded up and they get modded down even though both of what you said has been said in several posts even higher up?
Actually it seems the mods who decided this was a troll were lacking the sense of humor. I use.NET, I like.NET, and even I saw a tongue planted firmly in cheek, and giggled my way through the post until I saw how it was moderated... then it was wtf!?!
How come when it's Microsoft doing something it's called vigilante but when it's somebody else doing it, it's called a honeypot? Come on guys? I see this as a positive thing.
Here! Here! If I had mod points you'd get them. Your post was so lucid and well thought out I actually forgot I was reading slashot for a few seonds. Then I got to the next post where somebody mentioned "wine" like it was a serious alternative. *grin*
Sometimes being able to scratch in your own litter box is a good thing. Bored? might I suggest the "back" button and move on. You chose to read the article (and keep reading it.. and post)
maybe an increase in the lithium might be in order?
Slashdot Mirror
Being on "the list" in and of itself means nothing. Aside from some of the more esoteric methods of behavior detection; being able to look at, and pick apart the binary is an important part of being able to detect it.
Just saying "Bad Prog V2.11" is spyware does me no good if your software can't detect if BadProg.exe is present.
ok, I give up, you've obviously missed the original part of the thread that talked about MS poisoning the executables to begin with. You win, it's impossible.
ok, I obviously didn't explain my concept very well. I'm not talking about flawed css's here folks. Anyone can do that with any software. Spotting a UA and sending it an evil CSS is easy and doesn't need to be done by the manufacturer. Joe 6pack with a hardon for somebody can do it with apache if he wants.
I'm talking MS, auto update, patch Tuesday, firing in an actual NO KIDDING alteration to IIS CODE ITSELF (note, I'm not talking pseudo code that gets stuffed down the wire to a client) that makes it behave differently with one browser then when caught claiming "Oops I made a boo boo. Here it's fixed."
Yes, some IE users will leave as I've already stated, but the bulk of the unwashed masses are going to go "Evil firefox! can't make it work so it's bad!"
again.. I'll type slow so as to be clear. NOT CSS!!!
Not unless somebody could prove it was done intentionally.
"Gee, we were trying to make IIS more compatible with third party software, and our developers messed up really big. It worked great during our testing. We've already issued a bugfix that takes care of the problem. See how responsible we are. sorry!"
Like I said though, by that time the damage is already done, and it's not like MS hasn't weathered bad PR before and come out smelling like a rose.
Personally I think we're going to see the lines being blurred even further between local content and remote content. It's going to become very difficult to figure out what's local to our machines and what's really hosted on a server halfway across the world. The internet has leveraged itself into a pervasive part of our machines and lives. How many slashdotters have had a network outage and sat at their machines all forlorn because it seemed like something critical was missing.. i have.
Not to offer MS any great ideas, but it'll be a lot easier than it was then. In the early days MS didn't have a reasonably large end user base of web servers to draw from. Today, while not a vast majority, there is a fairly large number of web servers running on the web. With automagic updates happening it would be cheese for IIS to just start identifying and screwing with Mozilla based browsers from the start. They wouldn't have to change anything, just take a little break between each line of html. Essentially that would cause Firefox to run so poorly on IIS sites that it wouldn't be usable.
We all know the slashdot crowd will just say "I won't go to IIS sites then" and there would be a group of people exactly like that. Backlash would happen, MS would have to blush a bit and 'release' a patch claiming an accident happened but the damage to FF's reputation would already be done because the average joe user on the web is going to only remember how firefox absolutely crawled on insert-iis-site-here.com but IE7 flew like a banshee.
I'm not trying to bash here, but folks *do* have to realize that MS *is* in a position to do a lot of really evil shit that they're (presumably) not. It only takes a couple days of a "bug" in a patch to create a serious backlash for a client product to see permanent damage.
And what happens if google/yahoo et al don't win the game? Then what? Are we all going to be sitting here on slashdot in 5 years referring to this thread and saying "Aww, shucks Google just didn't have it in 'em." or will there be posts about the evil empire that is Microsoft and how they tore in and totally destroyed 'search' with their disruptive monopoly?
Yes, I do believe you're right. The best browser did come out on top, and yes.. you did get Firefox...
easy there, was meant as a joke. Mine's not much better as evidenced in a different reply.
I bow the the power of the AC (and actually admit the error)
On the other hand, at least I have the balls to post while signed in.
Good communication, including spelling is also a must for management in any environment. Can you spot the blatent errors in that quote? If not--ask any of your hourly people.
(hint: big words aren't always spelled like they're pronounced and if you're going to misspell something, at least misspell it consistently)
i hate to fall into the trap, but this is the second time. FUNDAMENTAL!
As a developer of about 17 yrs now, I don't have a degree. I've just cracked the mighty 40 yr mark and I'm certainly not heading back to college either. I'm by no means the best programmer in the world and I have my limitations. I think knowing one's limitations and having the ability to research beyond them is far more important than knowing how to design a compiler etc. My employer wants a functional ERP system that interfaces with online ordering and inventory control. Somehow I don't see where a compiler is going to help me there. If I were an academic type, ok... I'd go along with that.
Granted, this is just my opinion, and my oldest son is already in college. The youngest is 13 and certainly will be doing the college route as well. Both want to be programmers and I want to make sure they have every tool available to them.
well now... so much for light reading.
personally, were I a customer, I would just sorta chuckle to myself and move along. Then again I never thought whining to potential customers about their choice of software was a viable method of increasing profits/page hits anyhow.
Just me and my silly opinions.
because most users don't care about how long a server has BEEN running, they care that it's running [properly] *now* and those lovely UPS's don't protect your uptime as much as they protect you from unplanned downtime. There *is* a difference there. EVERY server needs maintenance reboots etc.
Wow, you've got some very serious issues going on that spending any amount of time on /. will only make worse if not intolerable.
.rpm and .deb's fail in this manner than Installshields (proportionally speaking!)
Millions of single file downloads I can accept.. somewhere.. yes. Another billion in tar.gz? ok.. *maybe* but a billion is a whole lot. You've still not addressed the issue however, which as I understand it is simplicity of install and that a single windows install package most often has all of the required dependencies within the package itself. That's not usually the case with linux distributions which tend to require that a package be installed prior to, or with the package you're installing.
Source code? I can get source code to applications for windows. I even write some; and happily look at the source. There *are* open source windows applications out there. That's not a linux specialty. It's the computer world, and us geeks like to have a go at the grizzly entrails of an application.
RPMs? Yep they work most of the time. Until a package maintainer requires the use of a particular version of a library that is now too old, or too new--or otherwise conflicts with something else. Yeah, I'm sure that there are ways to get around this with linux, but the average user isn't going to know (or care) how to do it. I'd hazard to guess that more
Now of course you mention sourceforge and the others. yes, they're fantastic resources and valuable in the extreme. However lumping them all together and claiming more available software is kinda a bad thing. Many of those projects are extremely focused on one tiny aspect of one very esoteric segment of computing, many times uncompleted and abandoned, wrapped around the axles in poorly chosen coding styles, esoteric languages and pointed ideology that make it distasteful for the average user. JoeBlow doesn't give a rats posterior if mp3 is "encumbered." He just wants to listen to music.
I'm not trying to set you off, or light a flame war. I've even tried to be really diplomatic and refrain from zealotry and insults. I'm not a Windows lackey, but I use it. I'm also not a Linux lackey either.. but I use that too. I prefer to use the best tool (in my opinion) for the job. My servers rock as linux. My desktop is Windows 2000. You'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands, or show me a linux desktop that can keep up. My kids will be overjoyed to find those games running in X.
Why is uptime constantly used as a measure of all things good and wonderful in the IT world? Those updates are pretty important, and every now and then a healthy reboot will load some of those new kernel toys/fixes etc. Not to mention, a fresh boot from time to time can expose problems that might otherwise be hidden by an old (but now updated) driver etc.
What particular Russian region is Solvat? Very agressive phones there.
You don't actually have to *use* your cell phone on the road, just being powered on is enough to track it's location. The phone does all the "Hi! Here I am!" stuff all by itself.
I paid my union dues on time.
Actually it seems the mods who decided this was a troll were lacking the sense of humor. I use .NET, I like .NET, and even I saw a tongue planted firmly in cheek, and giggled my way through the post until I saw how it was moderated... then it was wtf!?!
wow. I thought I was the only one that thought that way. By any chance are you single? *grin*
How come when it's Microsoft doing something it's called vigilante but when it's somebody else doing it, it's called a honeypot? Come on guys? I see this as a positive thing.
Here! Here! If I had mod points you'd get them. Your post was so lucid and well thought out I actually forgot I was reading slashot for a few seonds. Then I got to the next post where somebody mentioned "wine" like it was a serious alternative. *grin*
Anyhow thanks, you made my day!
damn and I just got my script refilled.
Sometimes being able to scratch in your own litter box is a good thing. Bored? might I suggest the "back" button and move on. You chose to read the article (and keep reading it.. and post)
maybe an increase in the lithium might be in order?